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House values down 1.1% since March as lack of buyers and finance see prices glide lower, Quotable Value reports
Property values have fallen 1.1% since March and are continuing to gradually fall because of a lack of buyers, a surplus of listings and a lack of finance, Quotable Value said in its report for August.
Values across New Zealand were now 5.0% below their peak levels of late 2007, but are still 3.1% above their levels from a year ago because of a bounce in late 2009 and early 2010.
The government owned valuer is the first to release a national report on housing values for August. See the full report here and the full spreadsheet here.
Auckland's largest real estate agency Barfoot and Thompson reported last week that house prices fell in August and volumes fell. See more on Barfoot's report here. The Real Estate Institute of New Zealand's report for August is due next week.
"The market sentiment remains cautious with little sign of urgency amongst buyers," QV Valuation Manager Glenda Whitehead said in the report, available in full here.
"There is still a considerable backlog of unsold property on the market, although the number of new properties being added to this pool appears to have slowed as potential vendors choose to wait until the market begins to show signs of recovery," Whitehead said.
"Those with properties currently on the market now accept that they will take longer to sell, although they are not dramatically dropping their asking prices," she said.
Sales volumes remained at relatively low levels below last year and long term averages.
Related Topics
“Some potential buyers are continuing to struggle to secure funding from banks or finance companies who remain cautious about lending for property” said Whitehead.
“The continued lack of buyer urgency, the low number of sales, and the high number of unsold properties means that prices continue to gently slide backwards in most areas," she said.
'Signs of recovery?'
"There are early signs of a slight increase in activity as more people are assessing the market and considering their options. The housing market is usually more active in spring although the current economic climate suggests any upsurge this year will be modest. Short of any fundamental change in the market, values are expected to continue to slide slightly."
Whitehead said the Christchurch earthquake would have a major impact on the housing market in that area, but it was too early to know the full extent.
While values have declined according to the QV index, the average sales price increased slightly from $407,191 to $409,700.
"This increase in average price is due to relatively fewer sales of lower value properties over recent months. The QV index is a more reliable measure of value change as it is not based on average sales prices and is not affected by which parts of the market are more or less active," QV said.
"All the main centres are showing a similar pattern over the last year with values increasing through until March then easing since. Apart from Hamilton and Tauranga, values in the main centres are still above the same time last year, although the gap is rapidly closing. Values in the Auckland Region have been flat over recent months, but as values were increasing rapidly this time last year, the year-on-year gap has closed further to 5.9 percent from the 6.9 percent reported last month," it said.
"Values in the Wellington region have dropped in recent months and are now only 2.0 percent above last year, down from the 3.2 percent reported last month. Values in Christchurch values are 3.2 percent above last year, and in Dunedin 2.7 percent. Values in Hamilton (-1.5 percent) and Tauranga (-0.9 percent) are now both below the same time last year. Unlike the other main centres, these two cities didn’t show a significant increase in values during 2009, instead staying relatively flat."
Declining values in recent months have therefore pushed values lower than they were the same time last year, it said.
Values in most of the provincial centres remain above the same time last year, although the gap continues to close. Napier (3.2 percent), New Plymouth (3.3), Wanganui (4.2%), Nelson (2.6) and Invercargill (3.0) all remain above last year. Rotorua (1.0 percent), Gisborne (0.3 percent), Hastings (1.3 percent) and Palmerston North (1.6 percent) now have values similar to last year.
Declining values in recent months mean that values in Whangarei are now 2.8 percent below the same time last year, and Queenstown Lakes values are 1.5 percent below the same time last year.
See the full regional details from QV's report below.
Auckland
QV’s Residential Price Index for August shows that property values in the Auckland region are just beginning to stabilise, although have dropped by 0.7% since March this year. In contrast, values increased by 6.7% in the 7 months to March. Consequently, values now sit 5.9% above the same time last year, but 2.4% below the market peak of late 2007.
Glenda Whitehead of QV Valuations said; “Values in the Auckland region’s residential market now appear to levelling, although it is too soon to tell whether this is the end of the downward trend which has persevered since March”.
“August activity remained light and caution prevails, but we are seeing early signs that home owners are gearing up to make decisions. We suspect many are assessing their options and actively seeking information, as we have noticed a recent in increase in Market Valuation reports by QV’s registered valuers”
Ms. Whitehead said. “Some home owners are taking advantage of readily available builders, planning extensions and alterations to their existing homes. While this data is not fed into the QV index, it is a sign that home owners view the property market positively enough to believe the cost of renovations will be recouped in the future. Cost and added-value differ, but those we speak to are making long-term decisions whilst enjoying a higher quality home in the short-term. This activity is obviously only being undertaken by those in secure employment and with good levels of equity in their homes” Ms. Whitehead said.
“The North Shore market remains patchy, with no push from buyers. The time taken to sell a property remains extended, with agents reporting low activity levels. However, we believe pre-approvals and requests for refinance are on the rise, a possible signal of a pending bounce in the spring market” Ms. Whitehead said.
“Auckland City is characterised by general lack of confidence. Higher quality properties are still faring reasonably well and some good prices are still being achieved when the right buyer finds the right property. Buyers appear more demanding of quality, and are overlooking properties that have any negatives” Ms. Whitehead said.
“Activity in West Auckland remains subdued and buyers remain cautious, as in other parts of the region. Many home owners are refinancing their existing situation. Of the homes that are selling, those that are upgraded and well located tend to be the ones that find a buyer” Ms. Whitehead said.
“Activity in the South and South East market also remains subdued. Values do however appear to be relatively steady with fewer listings and fewer sales. The lower end of the market, sub $300,000, now appears to have become more attractive to investors, reflecting improved yields. But again, buyers remain cautious. Anecdotally, activity in the $400-600k bracket seems limited.
Uncertain economic conditions continue to dampen confidence” Ms. Whitehead said. QV’s Residential Price Index is calculated using sales data from the 3 months leading up to the month being reported. It is not the same as the average sales price, which fluctuates in line with the mix of properties selling in upper or lower price brackets. The average sales price for the Auckland region in July was $535,918.
Hamilton
QV’s Residential Price Index for August shows that property values in Hamilton are slowly easing.
Unlike most other major centres, Hamilton did not experience significant value recovery from mid to late 2009. Subsequently, values are now 1.5% below the same time last year, and 10.4% below the market peak of 2007.
Mr. Richard Allen of QV Valuations said; “For the second consecutive month, all parts of the city experienced declines in residential property values. However, the average sale price for the city actually increased slightly from $352,576 in July to $356,016, which is a reflection of sales composition, rather than a value increase. Traditionally, the onset of spring and early summer results in a lift confidence and mood with an associated surge in sales activity and volume. However, this year it is hard to see where the stimulus is going to come from. It appears that uncertainty in the economic recovery is going to continue to stifle the residential market in Hamilton for some time to come”.
QV’s Residential Price Index is calculated using sales data from the 3 months leading up to the month being reported. It is not the same as the average sales price, which fluctuates in line with the mix of properties selling in upper or lower price brackets.
Tauranga
QV’s Residential Price Index for August shows that property values in Tauranga are beginning to ease. Unlike most other major centres, Tauranga did not see significant value gains in 2009.
Subsequently, values are now 0.9% below the same time last year, and 11.3% below the market peak of late 2007.
Mr. Shayne Donovan-Grammer of QV Valuations said; “The Tauranga property market is currently experiencing a difficult period. Confidence in the market is lacking and there is no expectation of a short to medium term improvement. The level of activity is as light as any time in recent memory which is creating a build up of listings. Values as a consequence are gently slipping for open market transactions while forced sales are showing considerable discounts”.
“Some listings have sat for quite some time and now run the risk of being over exposed. To sell a home it is imperative to have the property in good presentation, realistically priced and to work hard with buyers to reach a solution” Mr. Donovan-Grammer said. “Buyers, or people who are building, are doing so more for their own quality of life and housing, rather than looking to make capital gains. At this stage, any hope that the market will hold largely depends on stable interest rates”
Mr. Donovan-Grammer said. QV’s Residential Price Index is calculated using sales data from the 3 months leading up to the month being reported. It is not the same as the average sales price, which fluctuates inline with the mix of properties selling in upper or lower price brackets.
The average sales price for Tauranga in July was $410,798.
Wellington
QV’s Residential Price Index for August shows that property values in the Wellington region have continued to decrease, by 2.2% since March this year.
In contrast, values increased by 4.4% in the 7 months to March. Consequently, values now sit 2% above the same time last year, but 5.4% below the market peak of early 2008.
Mr. Kerry Buckeridge of QV Valuations said; “The residential property marketing in Wellington is currently characterised by softening values and relatively modest sales volumes. This is a continuation of the general trend established over the last few months”.
“Many agents continue to find it difficult to get sales across the line, as buyers are thin on the ground and being very cautious. Exceptions appear to be home-handyman bargains at the bottom of the market, as well as very good quality properties at the top of the market” Mr. Buckeridge said.
“At the top end there have been some good sales. These properties are very well located and of good quality. It appears as though buyers in this segment recognise that properties of this quality do not come to market too often. If they want this type of property, they are acting” Mr. Buckeridge said.
“In more buoyant times, activity is often generated by people upgrading to higher quality homes. At present, we get the impression that most people are consolidating and paying down existing debt rather than trading up. In Wellington, this conservative financial stance may be driven by the ongoing cost-cutting and restructuring within the public service sector. Even if there has been no direct effect on individual circumstances, many are playing it safe and battening-down the hatches” Mr. Buckeridge said.
“We are however just starting to see the early stages of the traditional spring market, with an increase in listings coming to market. This phenomenon tends to occur every year as the weather begins to improve and we don’t consider this activity to be the beginning of any sustained recovery” Mr. Buckeridge said.
QV’s Residential Price Index is calculated using sales data from the 3 months leading up to the month being reported. It is not the same as the average sales price, which fluctuates inline with the mix of properties selling in upper or lower price brackets. The average sales price for the Wellington region in July was $455,144.
Christchurch
QV’s Residential Price Index for August shows property values in Christchurch have begun to ease for the first time since February, after increasing steadily through 2009.
Consequently, values at the end of August sat 3.2% above the same time last year, and 4.7% below the market peak of 2007 as the graph below illustrates: Although there were some early indications of a spring resurgence in Christchurch through August, it remains to be seen what impact the recent major earthquake will have on the residential property market. It will take several months of new data before a trend emerges. QV’s Residential Price Index is calculated using sales data from the 3 months leading up to the month being reported. It is not the same as the average sales price, which fluctuates in line with the mix of properties selling in upper or lower price brackets.
The average sales price for Christchurch in July was $373,264.
Dunedin
QV’s Residential Price Index for August shows that property values in Dunedin have continued to decrease, by 1.8% since March this year. In contrast, values increased by 3.6% in the 7 months to March. Consequently, values now sit 2.7% above the same time last year, but 5.5% below the market peak of 2008.
Mr. Tim Gibson of QV Valuations said; “The property market in Dunedin shows a continuation of the flat to declining growth that has been evident over the winter period. This trend has been evident in all sub-sectors of Dunedin”. “August has been characterised by fewer listings of residential property and continued low numbers of active buyers in the market. A total of 400 sales were registered within Dunedin city for the month of August, which is a decrease of 13% from the previous month” Mr. Gibson said.
“Well presented dwellings are still moving reasonable quickly, as long as the vendor is realistic and ready to meet current market conditions, and not holding out for values experienced in 2007. The onset of spring has historically seen a period of stronger residential value growth within Dunedin, but this will depend on the number of active buyers in the market substantially improving” Mr. Gibson said.
“Other economic indicators are pointing to a lack of confidence within the property market at present, such as the volume of building consents issued for the month of August. The number issued for August is 9% below the same month in 2009. August 2009 was the time that property values started to experience moderate growth which fuelled the building activity. With the current flat market it is not surprising that building activity has also declined” Mr. Gibson said.
QV’s Residential Price Index is calculated using sales data from the 3 months leading up to the month being reported. It is not the same as the average sales price, which fluctuates in line with the mix of properties selling in upper or lower price brackets. The average sales price for Dunedin in July was $274,485.
323 Comments
Shame Wolly - too slow
Shame Wolly - too slow
I moved to NZ in 1994 because
I moved to NZ in 1994 because house prices were about 4 times the average family wage and this seemed like a nice place to live. Fastforward to 2010 with the average house price between 6-7 the average family wage. This has just become a speculative market with false hopes of more capital gains to come. Eaven QV only talks about a slight gradual decline before a pick up happens. The fact is that interest rates will go up again (It's just a matter of time), Kiwis will leave NZ (too expensive to buy a house) and immigrants won't find this place attractive enough financialy to move here. This has to correct itself. The question is how fast and how brutal? It would be better to get this over with in one hit instead of this slow gradual death.
Let's get back to the historical affordibility trends and stop talking about property as a speculative investment.
Totally agreed. It is about
Totally agreed. It is about affordability. Unfortunately there are still a lot of people out there thinking house prices will double every ten years, what a bunch of dreamers. Can we really see in ten year's time our income/wages are going to improve to match the doubling of house value? Fundamentally the NZ economy and its workforce are not well equipped to move up the value chain to greatly improve the values of our products and services. We are essentially a low wage, low tech country, period. We need to hurry up to improve our technical skills, our regulatory environment with regards to the finance and banking sectors, to clean up the cow boys and conman in these industries, and to produce more engineers and skilled productive workforce to produce higher value products and services for export (to earn tangible export income, not shafling pieces of papers and playing with numbers). Can anyone name a visionary leader in this country?
immigrants won't find this
immigrants won't find this place attractive enough financialy to move here.
Now there's a fine point which doesn't get made very often. At the risk of offending any true Kiwi patriots, New Zealand is a nice place but it's not a whole lot nicer than any other nice place I can think of.
New Zealand is an expensive place to live for what you get and the climate isn't what most people would call ideal. Also the available services aren't too hot and they aren't too available either from a lot of places.
Now I'm sure a lot of angry Kiwis are gonna tell em where I can go for saying such things but I'm just hoping to make some people understand that there are still a lot of options open to people with money and New Zealand may not be as high on their list as you think it is.
Buy houses for quality of
Buy houses for quality of life. Prices falling rapidly or doubling in ten years------make youself comfortable OR wait for 30% fall
Yes...massive, unserviceable
Yes...massive, unserviceable debt burdens are so comfortable!
Assuming of course the bank will even give you a mortgage.
Because, you know, not everyone has a PI daddy.
Auckland experienced the
Auckland experienced the largest rise in value in New Zealand in the past 12 months, climbing 5.9 per cent to an average of $535,918, QV said.
So Auckland has the longest
So Auckland has the longest to fall now.
I've been looking to buy in
I've been looking to buy in Auckland central(ish) for over a year but the wife (quite rightly) is reasonably choosy. I have noticed that there seems to be 3 distinct markets in central(ish) Auckland. Properties below say $900k there is definitely price pressure and the buyers have a reasonably strong hand. However good well presented family homes in good ares above $900k there is a bit of a shortage of quality property and therefore more competition and things are more evenly balanced between buyer and seller. I suspect more stock of these types will come on in spring. The 3rd category ..... anything that looks like a leaker.
Whitehead is wrong with
Whitehead is wrong with regard to Auckland City. There is a serious shortage of homes available for sale & in many central city suburbs prices are well above 2007. Strong bidding at auctions, even mortgagee sales are getting normal market values. Huge numbers through open homes and many selling with multiple offers in less than a week.
Very little sign of new spring listings so competition will remain strong for limited stock over summer.
Even the $3m plus bracket seeing good levels of sales.
If the mortgagee sales are
If the mortgagee sales are selling at what you call ' normal market value ' then please explain why it has got to mortgagee sale? Surely the 'owner' could have sold prior to mortgagee sale and avoided all the angst, heartache and the personal credit downgrade that goes with losing your home
Well when you naively fall
Well when you naively fall for the the hype and race out to sign up for mortgages on ten investment properties even though you haven't had a real pay increase in years, something has to give eventually.
Nice try agent. There is a
Nice try agent. There is a bit of a shortage in central Auckland. But lots of lookers and buyers still cautious. Some good results for excellent properties. But not all - some very nice properties not even attracting 1 bid at auction.
"There is a bit of a shortage
"There is a bit of a shortage in central Auckland." - No, there isn't. Nice try though, real estate agent.
is this true? prices have
is this true? prices have fallen from very over priced to just very over priced. well this is truly a Shocking!!!!
Prices are still up in most
Prices are still up in most areas, or maybe flat. This is very good. Makes all the crazy doom and gloom people look silly. No where property fallen 30% or even 15% has Hickey said.
Ch"CH disaster will mean much more work for everyone and so summer will see big upside and gloom people will have to eat words
Does that include the 100
Does that include the 100 people made redundant yesterday from New World Kaiapoi? And the many others whose small business are folding as retail spending goes through the floor?
So what's gloomy about more
So what's gloomy about more people affording a home?
A housing market out of reach for normal people, controlled by speculators, backed by government (tax-payer) funding.. Now that's gloom in my eyes.
Can people just stop being greedy please?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!
But you're not desperate at all!
Meanwhile, back in the real world, property prices continue to slide rapidly back toward the levels of the 1990s, as over-extended investors and starving real estate industry hacks fling themselves under passing trucks.
Auckland already more
Auckland already more expensive than 90% of USA. Soon to be more expensive than California or NYC.
A lot of money overpaid for this little s**thole.
Wonder how long before even the Chinese stop buying here or in Sydney due to extremely lousy value.
Just a couple of idiotic racial motivated incidents against them will "clarify some things" i reckon.
You mean like this attack
You mean like this attack today...
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10672073
Is it fair to assume that the
Is it fair to assume that the Saab driver is a Caucasian, since the report did not mention Polynesian, Maori, Indian etc .....
I didn't mean the driver, I
I didn't mean the driver, I meant the guy that could be now minus 2 legs - he is asian!!
Big Daddy- You are a bit
Big Daddy- You are a bit slow,
Half of Chch property ( on the east side ) just lost a lot of value, who will buy there when it was so exposed by the Earthquake.
The west side might go up abit as a result , or people might just leave town altogether?
One wonders where QV get
One wonders where QV get their statastics from as people in the Marlborough and Taranaki areas have been telling me of some sales being achieved well below CV. Does anyone really know what is actually going on out there.
Northshore: There are
Northshore: There are limited new listings coming on this spring so far, agents (I'm not one) are waiting for the rush and have been doing it VERY hard in the last 3 months. But some of the agents I know tell me that they are seeing multiple offers again on good properties, a general lift in attitude in the last 3 weeks.
Unfortunately they still have allot of rubbish (leaky / MAIN road or just plainly unattractive) properties on the books that refuse to move.
Will be interesting to see how values in the rest of New Zealand go now, with a BIG question mark over the perhaps 15% of the total NZ housing stock (that’s a guess) in ChCh.
This is my experience too.
This is my experience too. The North Shore is booming in some categories and crashing in others. What is interesting is that there seems no middle ground anymore, houses are either on a 350 m2 section and leaking, or 3 million dollar cliff top homes.
Within 6 months Auckland
Within 6 months Auckland house prices will be well above late 2007 median and the doomsayers will have egg on their face & those waiting for prices to drop will finally give up waiting and buy. Next year it will be all go with Rugby World Cup, low interest rates and of course bugger all new homes being built so existing house prices can go only one way - UP! Rents are up too!
That's the spirit! Good on
That's the spirit! Good on ya! Why let reality get you down, right? Just keep on telling yourself a bunch of hysterical lies and you may get a job with the defence department!
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10672084
LOL why is it that all the
LOL why is it that all the crazy people get the high level government positions in NZ? We have a history here....are we to trusting?
*sigh* not again.. Can
*sigh* not again..
Can someone, Auckland agent for example, PLEASE explain to me why lower house prices is bad? What is great about a nation paying all disposable income in interest to the banks?
Surely you can't be so narrow minded that you only think of what's good for yourself?
You hit it on the head in
You hit it on the head in your final sentence. Apparently they are that narrow-minded, short-sighted and selfish. What kind of person wants to perpetuate a situation which acts as an enormously damaging cancer on the entire economy, just so they can feel superior on completely fallacious grounds, and lord it over some imaginary underclass?
'Little Men' is the
'Little Men' is the kind.
Prick anyone who needs something to be bigger so they can feel good, and you'll find one.
I blame the female of the species - they used to choose champion spear-throwers to breed with, but now it's PI's and FI's.
They dropped the ball.
@ MichaelH - agents only
@ MichaelH - agents only think of themselves and their personal incomes FULL STOP nothing more needs to be said ..... however they are so THICK they don't realise that 3 sales @ $500K is worth more to them than 2 sales @ $600K ......
that's right Auckland agent,
that's right Auckland agent, keep taking the prozac and adjust those rose coloured glasses .... I have worked with your ilk in the recent past (not as an agent though, thank you) and what a bunch of rude, arrogant, GREEDY, selfish, self-important, ignorant, thick scum you all are !
To: annoying mouse: tell us
To: annoying mouse:
tell us what you really think and no holding back this time. :-)
@ Ex Simpleton That is what
@ Ex Simpleton
That is what is wrong with "Enzud" .... everyone is so backwards at coming forward and calling "a spade, a spade" !
It is so "PC" here with everyone pushing their little wheelbarrow, hoping no one will notice them, as they all have their "pig snouts in the trough". No one is allowed to tread on any toes and say what they really think, apart from these blogs - thank you BH.
But what gets up my nose, is all the BS "justification" these groups and individuals come up with, when all they are trying to do is protect their "precious patch".
Real estate agents must be a
Real estate agents must be a really worried lot. As long as sales happen they make their commission regardless of house prices going up or down.
But now that sales are dropping it is bad for their business. It is going to get worse if the standoff between buyers and sellers continue longer.
Calm down John D...Paula and
Calm down John D...Paula and Bill are working on solutions...they plan a new benefit....to be known as the Real Estate Commission Support Payment Scheme (RECSPC) not to be confused with the RSPCA...ok!.............buildings are being built and pointy heads appointed to another...wait for it....another bloody welfare white Elephant. As a spinoff expect the flow of borrowed munny to pork the wgtn property ponzi scheme.
My experience with real
My experience with real estate agents a few years ago:
When I was a vendor, he overpriced my property by 20%, I gave him the listing. I waited for 3 months for the first offer, which was 30% less than my original asking price. The agent said it is the market reality. The average price movement for the whole market was -3% during that period.
When I was a buyer, the agent (from a different company) indicated I should try an offer 30% below the asking price, he was confident he can get me a good deal. He told me the vendor was very deparate to sell. The market condition was the same as when I sold my house.
According to a friend who used to live in China and Russia, these real estate agents would either be jailed or sent to the labour camp in Siberia for such business practices.
I am a geologist , leaving to
I am a geologist , leaving to work in Oz for a year , and I am struggling to get what I paid for my house three years ago. Every agent tells me how flat or dead the market is , and how the only thing that will move it, is a drop in asking price . Some have even try to scare me saying it could get worse if...... interest rates go up more , or the milk price falls , or farm prices fall , or if we have a double dip recession ,or the govt slaps on more tax , or the Chinese stop migrating here , and if building new houses re-commences. One agent in Wellington with a Greek surname even told me the Greeks will cause the next recession very soon , so I should cut my losses and sell while I can ( at a lower price) . So they use the same 'threats' in both a good and bad market.
Mate, take whatever you
Mate, take whatever you can get then go make big bucks in Oz! Why are you even hesitating? The Aussie economy may go pow soon, or not, but right now you can still make so much that any loss you take selling your crapbox Kiwi house (no offense) will seem trivial. In a year or so after earning Oz bucks you can come back and buy anything you want here in NZ......but you probably won't ever come back.
Einstien dies and goes to
Einstien dies and goes to heaven.
First person he see he asks, "Excuse me? What's your IQ"
The person replies, 280. Einstien says, great! We can talk about astro physics!
2nd person he runs into he asks the same question, what's your IQ?
The person replies, 150. Great! says Einstien, we can talk about events of the day!
3rd person he sees he once again asks about their IQ. This time the person says 45!
Einstiens says, Great! Where do you think the real estate market is headed??!!
What's the IQ of someone who
What's the IQ of someone who cannot spell "Einstein"?
Just came back from Hong
Just came back from Hong kong, Malaysia and Singapore. Properties prices on those three countries have jumped over the last 12 months, maily to overseas buyers from China and middle east. According to the ABC news, there are 17 trillion USD saved up from China, Germany, Japn and the middle east countries, no banks would want to touch it and they are doing something with it.
"17 trillion USD saved up
"17 trillion USD saved up ............................no banks would want to touch it"
And you believe that? What form of 'money' could this possibly be? Cash? Could this be the famed (but non existent) "cash on the sidelines"
Agents tell me that one in
Agents tell me that one in ten houses sold are leaky houses. Half price many times.. This will change figures a lot. QV should take out leaky houses sales as not real sales.
"QV should take out leaky
"QV should take out leaky houses sales as not real sales"
We've had the leaky homes issue for the best part of ten years now so you can't claim a statistical blip.
Very foolish to start dicking around to that extent in any case BD. Where do you draw the line?
Properties with deferred maintenance, distressed vendors, near a new noisy road, houses over 50years, mortgagee sales etc are all likely to sell at lower prices.
The stats should be a compilation of the sales of the existing stock - warts and all.
I am not a fan of using average prices, median prices will automatically screen out extreme highs and lows, your "10% at half price" would barely affect median prices since they represent the true mid price.
The major RENOVATIONS are
The major RENOVATIONS are also FALSE PRICE INCREASES!
Once you add 50% of new floor area, and $200k of investment, to a old house, it inflates the values artificially.
Wonder how long before they start to come down hard on the "Ponsonby 20% above QVs" that have had 100ks invested after the QV.
My sister and her hubby
My sister and her hubby insists that they made a nice profit on the St Mary's Bay house they recently sold but if you factor in the amount they poured into it over the time they owned the place they should have just piled up the money they spent and set it alight.
Migration - static; Interest
Migration - static; Interest rates - 'upside risk'; lending/credit policies - requiring deals to stack up on equity ratios (capital contribution) and also on budgetted monthly/annual surplus; Wage inflation - what's that?
Can anyone (apart from RE scum) tell me how with the above combination of factors that any outcome other than a correction of house prices to Productive Value will occur?
Average income:
Average income: Stagnating
Lending: Curtailed
Cost-of-Living: Increasing
Immigration: Dormant
Emigration: Increasing
The property price bubble formed because easy international credit availability enabled local banks fly over the city in helicopters and throw sacks of money out the windows. That allowed the people below to pay any asking price, which naturally lead to vastly increased asking prices.
Credit crunch: Lending essentially halts: Average incomes unable to support prices: Cost-of-living rapidly increasing: As many people leaving NZ as arriving: Bad news for those dependent upon high property prices.
Don't go dragging facts,
Don't go dragging facts, evidence and fundamentals into this. You'll just confuse the RE agents and the vacuums inside their heads will implode, and we'll be overrun with all these little raisin-headed people babbling about indoor-outdoor flow.
TOO LATE!
TOO LATE!
Wonderful. I think that about
Wonderful. I think that about sums it up.
Often bubbles have one last super stupid rise, maybe it is yet to come...
I'm now getting the hang of renting, just don't know what to do with myself at weekends. Where were they all these years?
Me too ! Gained a sense of
Me too ! Gained a sense of freedom ...........unshackled by the burden of maintenance and mortgage ............ ahhhhhhhh , free at last , free at last , praise God , I'm free at last ..............
............. now wot the feck am I supposed to do with all this extra time ...?
Get a job?
Get a job?
Just gave mine up . Took
Just gave mine up . Took Bruce Sheppard's advice not to whore yourself by working for a firm you don't respect ................. Truth be told , I never worked for Fairfax , but I was employed there for 10 years .
I still think this is the
I still think this is the best summary I've read in weeks.
It is now but for the stroke
It is now but for the stroke of a pen by a pointy head in wgtn that the peasants continue in the belief that they make the decisions which determine their own lives. Kiwi peasant has yet to wake up to the fact that for four days and an hour or so each week, peasant works for the govt, for local govt and a bank or a landlord( and an insurance company). The last two hours on the Friday are all they are allowed, to earn a few dollars which will not be stolen from them by one sod or another. This, they get to show the family in the weekend...the lesson for the sprogs...this is what your life will be like...but only if you behave yourself and work really hard at school and borrow tens of thousands to get a qualification...otherwise you can expect to miss out on this wonderful life...you will have to make do with a benefit...not for you the pleasure of working for a living..."now take these few dollars down to the supermarket and buy your mother her Lotto ticket for a better life"
Makes you thankful for good govt doesn't it! Long live the property ponzi economy. Long live the fat profits at the banks.
Wolly this resonates.
Wolly this resonates. http://www.zerohedge.com/article/president-urgent . . . . Long live the fiat :) Go the Wollies.
Lol - talk about spin -
Lol - talk about spin - values in Auckland are up 6.7% and 5.9%, but also down .7% and 2.4%.
I see "annoying mouse" has a
I see "annoying mouse" has a few issues with our lovely Auckland RE agents ...... AM you have missed another factor DISHONEST .......
$4 billion and the Finance
$4 billion and the Finance Co. debacle have to be funded form somewhere. And let's be honest, the EQC wasn't really thought to be for Christchurch, was it, but for The North Island, so we need to replenish that quick-smart. And where will the funds come from to meet all those paymenst? Taxation on the only 'productive' part of our economy. Property taxes must rise fast and hard.
With values dropping and
With values dropping and therefore capital gains turing to losses there won't be anything left to tax - infact there may be losses available for property investors to offset against their income. Also if landlords are selling their properties at a loss to FHB's then there will be no one left to tax.
Bring in a good Stamp Duty.
Bring in a good Stamp Duty. That is independent of values, and discourages churn. Let's have a good 5% flat Stamp Duty.
A good flat 5% independant of
A good flat 5% independant of value, What? Nah make it 15 and why stop there. Churn? Cut the toes off anyone who doesn't buy anything they REALLY need.
If we hooked you and your
If we hooked you and your posts up to a big generator, NZ would have free electricity for as long as you live.
But property taxes have been
But property taxes have been rising at 10% per annum for the last decade or more (ok its a personal guesstimate but the point holds). They are called rates, perhaps you haven't noticed.
Rates are for local
Rates are for local application. Sure it's semantics; rates are a tax. But I had in mind a national tax, latterly clarified as a Stamp Duty, to bolster our national coffers and hit the property speculation game on the head.
Wolly is right. Suckers work
Wolly is right. Suckers work for Govt all week long and nothing over. Clever people make extra income by owing property. Renters and wage earners will be screwed for ever by landlords and Govt. Everyone should own property then everyone can be rich.
Quite right bigdaddy....we
Quite right bigdaddy....we can all be stinking rich if only we could all become landlords and be tenants of each other and claim income support from Paula. .....Hey Bill English....Big Daddy has the answer to all our problems...."Bill"...."BILLLLLL". .....bugger.
I think we're on the point of
I think we're on the point of detecting a tiny flaw in his logic.
But he's clearly a Poe anyway, so whatever.
Which raises the question - why are there no real property bulls?
Can someone from the NZ
Can someone from the NZ Gliding Association inform me if a 1.1 % reduction over 5 months could be construed as " gliding " . Geez Bernard , you are full of it ! No gummibars for you , today ................ And no 30 % oops , I mean 15 % fall in property . 5 % down from the top , only .
Not quite the armageddon in real estate that was touted here at " interest.co.nz " is it !.
Can someone from the NZ
Can someone from the NZ Gliding Association inform me if a 1.1 % reduction over 5 months could be construed as " gliding " .
It's moments like these you need Minties...and parachutes!
A parachute ............ why
A parachute ............ why ? At 1.1 % over 5 months ............ it'll take 10 years to reach the crunching bone-shattering impact of Hickey's 30 % house price fall . 5 years less if his 15 % amendment is achieved . Still enough time to trot out a novel that would rival Tolstoy's " War and Peace " . ............... Parachute .... tch tch !
[ we in the Gummy Bear Appreciation Society would prefer that you learn to say , " It's moments like these , you need Gummy Bears , sucker " . ]
You overlook the erosion of
You overlook the erosion of purchasing power from inflation. We are already 15% down from the peak in rough real terms.
Yessssssssss ! I saw some
Yessssssssss ! I saw some tweaking of the figures by Bernard , trying to massage reality into a shape that fitted his hare-brained prognostications ...........Grasping at straws , attempting to regain some credibility .
Oddly enuff , public enema #1 around here , Tony Alexander , has been closer to the mark than the Hickster . Surprise , that !
And he has very quietly put
And he has very quietly put his recovery date out to 2011 and next year he will quietly put it out to 2012. He knows jack shit and less than Bernard who at least has no financial gain from a rising market. Tony Alexander admits most of his clients are PI's.
So wotcha saying is that TA's
So wotcha saying is that TA's clients have skin-in-the game , munny invested , so he's gotta make better calls than Hickey . TA's arse is on the line if he gets it wrong .
Whereas Bernard has no responsibility . He can mouth off any old malarky , and there is no consequence , no come-back for getting it wrong . Just a dozen or so miffed bloggers .
Hmmmmmmm !
Fundamentals will kick in no
Fundamentals will kick in no doubt, they always do, and those fundamentals are going to se really really hard for us all, not just the property bulls but also the gloomsters, because of the socialising of all the spending and the fact that we are burning $250 mil a week, we are all going to pay hefty taxes for a long time on pretty much everything. Its not going to be fun ay, and these property ponzi people are setting people up for a big fall. All for the sake of a buck.
But unlike the PI-types, we
But unlike the PI-types, we "gloomsters" have been preparing ourselves for hard times.
Yes! My family has saved a
Yes! My family has saved a lot of money in the bank and also we have some cash safely stashed away. Plus we even have some gold if it ever comes to that!
Then there is the big vege garden which we've had for years and is highly productive and also we have a small orchard of fruit trees.
Not having any debt at all is a major! Not mortgage or credit card debt or HPs or overdrafts anything at all like that.
Who would want to be in debt now especially if you have no savings of any kind and nothing to live on or support you if times go really bad?
Prepared. Do you own your
Prepared. Do you own your home unencumbered or are you renting?
Nothing wrong with being in debt if you have good assets!!!!
"Nothing wrong with being in
"Nothing wrong with being in debt if you have good assets!!!!"
And if you cannot sell your "good assets" when you are called upon to pay off your debt?
People like you are the reason NZ and much of the western world is in such poor shape, economically: Financial ignorance and naiveté.
And what when those 'good
And what when those 'good asset' go bad? This week in Christchurch, for instance. What when that bargain property you paid $350k for has an old weatherboard on it, that the insurance will give you next to nothing for ( it's all in the land). What do they 'rebuild' with? The measily amount that the 'renter' was paid out for? And the land. What's that worth after a bit of liqifaction. Good assets? Today, maybe; tomorrow?
You really haven't a clue
You really haven't a clue have you?
If it is insured for replacement cost then it is paid out for replacement for the square metreage and not the value of the old weatherboard home.
Of course I'm just a school
Of course I'm just a school boy and don't have any insurance and have never made an insurance claim, so I don't understand that insurance companies will do ANYTHING to get out of settling a claim.
TMIBA&A at 3.38pm Not made
TMIBA&A at 3.38pm
Not made by me once again but by a clown who has nothing better to do than impersonate.
Wait for it, he will be back with a clownish comment!!!
TMIBA&A at 3.38pm is the
TMIBA&A at 3.38pm is the imposter.
Grow up mate!
If you can't discuss things intelligently you should leave and not come back.
Trying to confuse the other people here by impersonating me doesn't make me look stupid it just makes you look like the village idiot you really are.
BH how do you expect to get any intelligent discussion at this site while you let this stuff continue?
TMIBA&A at 3.53pm is the
TMIBA&A at 3.53pm is the imposter.
Nobody. Cares. FFS stop
Nobody. Cares.
FFS stop whinging and register if it's such a big honking deal.
Yes. Replacement costs. But
Yes. Replacement costs. But what exactly is that? And as an insurance company, would you be replacing an old 1930's weatherboard with a new bick and tile one? Insurance companies often work on this basis: What is the $ value you are insured for? What is the $ value of what 'is left' ~ you get the difference between the two.
"Nothing wrong with being in
"Nothing wrong with being in debt if you have good assets!!!!"
As the bank manager said to the stripper.
Well you know I am not sure
Well you know I am not sure who is who now but I think you are wrong to say debt is ever a good thing because it's not. Debt is always a bad thing to have!
If the choice is having a lot of debt just to be owning some houses, or to have no debt and a vegetable garden and a fruit orchard and to have spare cash then I would say "prepared" is definitely more sensible than a debtor!
Krrrrrrrrrrrrrrist.........th
Krrrrrrrrrrrrrrist.........there has got to be more to to blog on than this....English has just informed you that you don't need to be informed when making decisions involving your money.... and we are still talking about this s*#t.
You know in a way Banky Boy likes this ....in Ali's words .."there is no bad publicity...just publicity"
You want to see something slide into oblivion ..? then drop it from your interest list...as the passion... fervour...vitriol...declines the rest will take care of itself.
There is. A good interview
There is. A good interview with Lord Stern on Nat Radio, as I type.
ta..
ta..
made me feel quite smug.
made me feel quite smug. Laptop charging on the solar panel.....might have another coffee.
all RE agents are a bunch of
all RE agents are a bunch of bullshiteing Wallys!
Oh I say that's a bit much
Oh I say that's a bit much old boy...Wally feels pain you know!
basing your house buying
basing your house buying assessments on the monthly QV and REINZ stats. is stupid!
there is no mean average or hard fast formula to follow when buying...vendors in dire straits will take a lower offer than those that are in no hurry etc.
just because over the years Spring has always hearlded an upsurge in sales and lsiting etc doesn't mean this will follow again.
there is no pattern to anything anymore..that is the pattern!
if you like the house and want to live in it for say, 7 years..buy it!
What you mean is 'if
What you mean is 'if you like the house, and you can afford it.... buy it" Too many people have acted according to your original comment ,and that is why we have an overinflated property sector now.
You can buy any house you
You can buy any house you want. Houses are special. They are built of magical pixie dust sprinkled by fairies. You can always get the finance for any house, and you never have to worry about paying it back. So what are you waiting for? Sign on that dotted line and bask in the luxury of YOUR DREAM HOME!
86 workers have lost their
86 workers have lost their jobs at Kaiapoi's New World supermarket.
I am sure we will hear a lot more about job losses in the days to come. How would this affect the property market in Christchurch?
That's really sad. I used
That's really sad. I used that store when I lived there, and many of the wonderful staff have been there for ages. Best of luck.
John D. They will be
John D.
They will be reemployed in the industry. Kaiapoi might have properties for sale but wont affect general overall sales. Good sound homes in non affected areas will more than hold their value. Rental property is going to be hard to find. had 2 calls this morning from people looking to see if I had an empty rental, which I haven't.
Just so you know. I had a
Just so you know. I had a relly on the 'waiting list' for a any spot that came up in the supermarkets from Belfast to Kapaoi. After 9 months wait, they got a junior job. So I wouldn't hold out too much chance of jobs for those poor people in Kapaoi in the near term.
Bigdaddy- When you add
Bigdaddy-
When you add inflation into the picture, property values have already fallen 10-15% since the peak in 2007. This is a necessary correction, and should be welcomed. We have to give the next geneartion a go or they wont be able to support us baby boomers in old age.
And regarding Marlborough prices, yes, many homes are selling 10-% below the 2008 RVs
And many Marlborough
And many Marlborough properties remain unsold after wait for it.......more than 3 years, some as long as 5 years!....none of them have been included in the weeks to sell data of course...must not have the truth getting out.
velly solly wolly/wally...a
velly solly wolly/wally...a burger voucher is in the mail as i type!
velly solly wolly/wally...a
velly solly wolly/wally...a burger voucher is in the mail as i type!
Wow...so much inflation so
Wow...so much inflation so quickly...two burgers..too much!
What did the Barfoot numbers
What did the Barfoot numbers say that Auckland property prices are down 4% from July to August yet QV say only down 1.1%. What is the difference in the measurement basis?
As I see it, with volumes so low, supply from people who need to sell (i.e. moving jobs, downsizing, had more kids, etc) is stacking up. Surely this means that at some stage prices will need to drop to clear this latent supply backlog?
Don't forget the springtime
Don't forget the springtime mega glut is almost upon us.
MORTGAGEE MASSACRE.
Watch the Spring sales (that
Watch the Spring sales (that should be Spring NON sales).
There are a lot of house owners who are in the position of needing to sell the house because it cost them too much to buy and is costing them too much too keep, so they will be trying to offload them on some other sucker.
How many people don't realise the market has turned 180 degrees?
That means anyone thinking of buying will be expecting bargains but the sellers will be expecting to get their money back at least.
Who has the money to pay 2007 prices now and more to the point who would pay those prices even if they could?
This Spring there are going to be a HUGE number of listings and not many people able or willing to pay the asking price and many of the sellers won't be able to survive unless they sell.
I smell blood in the water.
RBNZ reckons only 1/3 of home
RBNZ reckons only 1/3 of home owners have a mortgage and of those only 1/4 have an LVR greater then 50%. I read somewhere that the average home owner occupies the same house for 7 years as well.
Much more likely to find distressed sellers in rental areas where property investors are having to top up their mortgage payments, but then do you really want to live in Clendon, Otahuhu or Tokoroa?
You must have that in a text
You must have that in a text file on your desktop so you can cut-n-paste it into every single message you post here.
But remember: not everyone is dumb enough to think that if you repeat crap often enough the world will come to believe it's true.
Lol - must be true then if
Lol - must be true then if you feel so threatened by it that it can draw out that sort of response. Offer something to the contrary brother and I'll consider it - no need to hate on me. The RBNZ/Stats NZ data was reasonably compelling, interest.co.nz doesn't offer up anything that detailed.
They did once say that NZ had $160b of residential mortagage debt secured over $560b of property which would support the RBNZ data. Population = 4m. 2.55 ppl per home = 1.6m homes. 1.6m x 350K per home = $560b. 65% owner occupied = $364b. 1/3 mortgaged at say 40% LVR = 44b. Total residential mortgages 160b- 44b = 116b property investment mortgages. 560b - 364b = $196b property investment value. 116b/196b = 60% LVR on investment properties.
The "spring sales" are going
The "spring sales" are going to be disastrously low. Even people in the real estate biz are expecting it. You may not like the fact that lots of people bit off more property debt than they can chew but it doesn't stop it being a fact. They will take down with them many of those who may otherwise have survived lean times. This is a severely bad time to be in debt to property.
How does this play out? NZD
How does this play out?
NZD rises to USD 0.85, exports collapse; then NZD falls to USD 0.35 on oil at $300 per barrel, followed by inflation and wage rises?
Things will not just stay as they are forever, that's for sure. Are we in the eye of the hurricane?
Just read an article which
Just read an article which argues that the real price of oil ought to be $US 10 / barrel currently !
[ Seeking Alpha : William Smead : " Should $10 a Barrel Be the Real Price of Oil ? " ]
If you look back after the
If you look back after the last house boom in the late 80's the houses didn't drop a lot. They just didn't go up for 10 years or so.
What will underpin it is a shortage of new houses and the high costs the govt regs put on new building. In the 90's price stability seemed normal after a while. So maybe they will do nothing or drop a couple of percent each year - but prices rises won't happen any time soon.
WRT economies, "booms" are
WRT economies, "booms" are usually healthy, "bubbles" never are. The recent house mania was a bubble.
And long term prices settle at a point sustainable by the average income and CPI. At the moment house prices are WAY above that point.
1.1% is sod all over 4 months
1.1% is sod all over 4 months (and still up 4% on last year!)
Could you be any cruder FN.
Could you be any cruder FN. The drop off in intensity has really only been over the last three months. Ask any agent or broker. But that drop off has been consistant and is getting worse by the month. The economy is in bad shape over all as evidenced by retail and manufacturing figures. NZ is one sick puppy economy wise and people are heading off to Australia and immigration has slowed down considerably. Housing values are going to drop slowly and surely over a long period of time. There is not one factor in the economy to hold them stable let alone stop them from sliding.
Fox News ..... now there is
Fox News ..... now there is an "oxymoron"
"Fox news Reader" - now
"Fox news Reader" - now there's a moron...
If you're lucky you may be
If you're lucky you may be able to pick up some part time work in Chch as a builder's labourer.
Sure, the bank is still going to mortgagee your investment properties, but at least you may be able to buy food, and find cheap rental accommodation.
Good luck, we're all praying for you!
A quiet reminder to all to
A quiet reminder to all to not swear or use abusive language. We can make our points strongly without the rough stuff. We're a family show.
cheers
Bernard
Isn't March to August 5
Isn't March to August 5 months? Not to mind. Use your 4, and lets' call the 1.1% over your time frame 3.3% per annum down; so far.
and inflation is 2% per
and inflation is 2% per annum?
So in real terms 5% down in a year...in 6 years 30%....
Anon I am in the RE industry
Anon I am in the RE industry but not as an agent. The last three months have been much slower for agents,bankers,brokers and valuers. It started to happen in June and has just kept going. Why are you so afraid to admit it. I own several properties but am not worried as my kids will be able to buy their first home without my help. I think that is positive for them and for the country as a whole.
Yes it will be. And because
Yes it will be. And because you own your other properties, it will be asset swap neutral. What ever $'s you sell for, should you choose, will buy you a like for like, and the lower the nominal price, the better the quality you will pick up. Only those who have borrowings against other than their own home are going to suffer sever financial damage.
Shock horror - values go down
Shock horror - values go down 1% over winter.
Not to those of us who know
Not to those of us who know this is just the start. A journey of a thousand miles starts with the first step.
It will be known as 'The
It will be known as 'The spring of no sales' in years to come.
The few RE agents left in the business will only ever mention it in fearful whispers.
Yes 1% might be the start of
Yes 1% might be the start of a long decline - but it definately isnt proof of one.
Those exponential compounding
Those exponential compounding 1 and 2 percent drops really add up over time.
The 1% is a joke. Sale prices
The 1% is a joke. Sale prices where I come from are now well below the 2007 peaks. Any offer that tips over and the next offer is for less.
I am a PI. I have
I am a PI. I have owned property for years now. I only invest my money in property.
I'm the type Bernard and others on this site hate.
Reading this thread cheers me greatly guys.
The complaining from posters on this site is getting shriller than ever. Clearly, you are all getting desperate that the long-predicted property collapse just hasn't happened yet. I ask you, when will this collapse you have been talking about for two years happen?
That you are complaining means the market is still functioning.
But, I am also happy because I provide long-term rental accomodation to people. And, the more you guys on here grizzle and whine about property the more likely it is that other people, considering letting out houses, will hear you and pay attention to you. They will, hopefully, believe you, get scared, and not provide a house to let. So, the more people not providing houses to rent, the more tenants find that there are less people like me, providing houses to let.
So, faced with demand from tenants for my increasingly scarce houses to let, I will happily put up my rents.
My plea to you all is: keep telling everyone you see property is doomed, prices are going to collapse, "ya can't lose in property maaaate", it's unproductive, the economy will collapse, fools buy houses, rentings the way to go, I'm saving heaps renting and no worries, blah blah blah, etc.
All power to you, you do your worst.
I, meanwhile, will be doing my best as you frighten away all the other would-be rental providers. I will be putting my rents up.
Thank you one and all on this site.
Well, most of you. Not everyone is anti-property. But that shows up another trend in this thread. Where have all the pro-PI posters gone?
Almost no one here to defend the cause, by the looks. Bernard, are your registrations making them decide to give up on this site?
Regards,
One still happy PI.
We don't hate you. We just
We don't hate you. We just know your wrong; feel a tad sorry for you, that you are about to loose so much"wealth' stored up over so many productive years, and look forwards to seeing your propeties in the mortgagee section of the Herald next year.
They are not on this site as
They are not on this site as they see their values coming down by the month and there is no sign as to when that is going to stop. I would have thought about 5 to 10 years will be the span as the overinflated assets in NZ including farms and commercials come back to values that reflect our incomes and not our ability to get cheap finance that has now disappeared. I would not be so cocky Anon. I hope your LVR is healthy as the banks are ruthless when they see their security get to a point where they worry.
If property prices fall as
If property prices fall as they will..wont that mean that when they bottom..all the Banks that lent when property prices were high..will be dramaticly overexposed. So by defacto the banking system will have a real problem passing a stress test.?.
Whose banking problem will
Whose banking problem will that be? Ours or our cousins?
Exactly good
Exactly good point!...Well... since we and our cousins.. live off borrowed money anyway, created by a Gnome in the Underworld, who incidently feeds off interest to survive,. He might decide to do what he's done in the past, especially when he gets hungry. We wouldn't like that much......but thats the way it is.
Anonymous, We welcome all
Anonymous,
We welcome all commenters who have a case to make without abusive, defamatory or racist comments.
Your comment above is a great example of a clear point of view put across without any of the nasties mentioned above. We welcome your registration. The box on the right.
cheers
Bernard
Anon at 11.55am I am still
Anon at 11.55am I am still around reading the garbage that most write on hear.
They are so jealous it is not funny, but it is a waste of time really cos most would not have the borrowing or ability to purchase a home at any price.
As I have said many times they are doing the property investors in general a favour.
I point out though that on this site there are some dropkicks who think they are funny by posting under other names.
Hilarious and worthless.
Discerning people know you
Discerning people know you can't lose with property and there has never been a better time to buy it so you better get in now before it's too late.
They used to say that in
They used to say that in America too.....before it all cr..
..ash..
..ed.
Your greed has blinded you.
Your greed has blinded you.
Hurrah. The crowd cheers. A
Hurrah. The crowd cheers. A century up before lunch.
cheers
Bernard
Ah yes Bernard, I tried to be
Ah yes Bernard, I tried to be helpful. Perhaps I should get myself another nom de plume and post a really outrageous line of thought. Not sure I actually have the ability to do it even if it was allowed. It's an interesting thought though....
Dear Anonymous, Steven-orig2,
Dear Anonymous, Steven-orig2, Auckland agent, What ????, Zaphod the Flatulent, MichaelH, Ex Simpleton, annoying mouse, Rock Doc, Tarfoot & Bombson, Steve-o, the big kahuna, Prepared , CoDirector, JimboJones
Please register so you can comment after we turn off unregistered comments from this Sunday September 12.
A reminder to all that we are moving to registered comments from this Sunday. We welcome any registered commenters. We don't welcome commenters making abusive, defamatory or racist comments.
Registered commenters can edit their comments and more easily include links out. We won't be spamming people. The box to register is in the right hand column.
Here's more detail. http://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/heres-why-wed-you-register-be-commente...
cheers
Bernard
Bla bla bla!!!!!! Change the
Bla bla bla!!!!!! Change the record Interest.co.nz!
How are those mortgage
How are those mortgage payments coming along?
*snicker*
I'm guessing the continued
I'm guessing the continued international reporting of Chch earthquake problems and aftershocks will cause a significant reduction in immigration to all of NZ + increased emigration.
This could really reduce housing demand and accelerate the rate of house price declines - especially at the high end of the market propped up by wealthy immigrants.
People thinking about immigrating to anywhere in NZ could reconsider if they investigate for 5 minutes and find out Wellington earthquake risk is even worse than Christchurch + Auckland volcano risks etc.
Kiwis overseas are probably less likely to return now.
And I expect emigration to Oz will increase significantly (especially from Chch & Wellington)
Or will increased awareness of NZ internationally somehow increase the number of people who want to immigrate?
Is anyone OS still reporting
Is anyone OS still reporting it? The foreign new sites seem to have moved on now.
Sunny Nelson. Thanks for
Sunny Nelson.
Thanks for your concern about N.Z.
Most on here will not be going to OZ as they will not be able to get the unemployment benefit straight away like in N.Z.
Which is why property will
Which is why property will fall. NZ can't afford it's welfare bill ( your~staying here comment). We either (a) cut the hand-outs, out, and rent subsidies fall, rents down, stress in the PI sector, or (b) raise revenue for the State by increase of property taxation or a flat stamp duty. ( where else is it going to come from! Certainly not manufacturing)
Waste of breath: 'The Man' is
Waste of breath: 'The Man' is actually just a schoolboy troll, with no real knowledge and understanding of finance or economics.
Anon @ 1.23p.m. And you are
Anon @ 1.23p.m.
And you are a financial drain on the taxpayer of N.Z.
If only I was a schoolboy.
Anon at 1.19p.m. I agree we
Anon at 1.19p.m.
I agree we need to cut out benefits per se.
We need people to stop feeling sorry for themselves and stop blaming others for their own plight.
Why always blame property investors?
It is not the investors that only buy property. perhaps the workers in Auckland could stop asking for wage increases and demand a pay reduction so that they then can't afford to pay the rent or mortgage?
No that wont happen because everyone continues to want more, and many on this site that rely on the taxpayer for their survival will always have their hand out and be moaning..
But I'm ok cos my mum pays me
But I'm ok cos my mum pays me pocket money.
To the clown at 1.21pm. Not
To the clown at 1.21pm. Not written by The Man Is Back Again & Again.
You always have to try and rubbish me because the truth hurts sometimes!!!!
To the clown at 1.27pm. Not
To the clown at 1.27pm. Not written by The Man Is Back Again & Again.
You always have to try and rubbish me because the truth hurts sometimes!!!!
As a lawyer in private
As a lawyer in private practice who is dealing regularly with people in the last few months who are selling their houses and their rentals to go to Australia I would have to say it is a great pity to see them go. They are generally well qaulified and experienced trademan/nurses/other professionals with kids and capital and we can ill afford to lose them. Not all people leaving NZ are on the dole here. They are just sick of our low wage economy which is one reason why house prices are coming back to reality. Prices were driven up by easy access to debt fuelled buying not rising incomes.
What you fail to understand
What you fail to understand TM is that those who do get work in aus will go and those who don't have work here will be trying to get work over there...and I am not certain of the rules but are there any to say someone getting the dole here may not be over there looking for work!...isn't it just a case of being back in time for the winz meeting....a quick flight!
House for sale QV $650000
House for sale QV $650000 selling for $450000, decrease in price of 30%.
Bernard, I am the pro-PI anon
Bernard, I am the pro-PI anon who posted at 11.55am. I am awaiting the new registration system to see how it works. I am concerned that my name will still be stolen by others and abusive comments posted in my name after the date registrations are required. This always seems to happen to pro-PI posters.
Witness The Man posts above. Indeed, which one is The Man?
Look above this post and you will still see people deliberately confusing the genuine posters. I just don't know who to believe sometimes.
One person above kindly (?) said "we don't hate you", but many others posters accuse us of greed, lying, ripping people off etc. I am a happy PI'er keen to, and not scared to, contribute on your site, but don't want my name mis-used like that which does happen. There is no doubt, many on this site HATE PIs. As I said, there ain't many PIs left here now.
Will the new system stop this behaviour? I will wait and see.
The new system is already in
The new system is already in place working in parallel.
Register the name you want and stick to it.
There will be a shake out and we'll see how it works.
We welcome your registration.
cheers
Bernard
OMG the endless whining.
OMG the endless whining. Poor, pitiful, persecuted you.
Anyway, maybe this will put your mind at ease. I'm registered. But earlier today I tried to post by just typing 'Kakapo' in the slot because I couldn't be arsed signing in. But it wouldn't let me use that name without logging in. Once you've bagged a name, it's yours.
Pro-PI, I think you need to
Pro-PI, I think you need to get past the fact that not everything is good for property.
"greed, lying, ripping people
"greed, lying, ripping people off" - RE hacks, PIs and speccers are greedy, do lie, and do rip people off. That's something I hate. But it doesn't mean I (or anyone else) automatically hates you. "Hate the sin, love the sinner", or something along those lines. (No, I don't love you.)
Thats a pretty good call, but
Thats a pretty good call, but its these kinds of people that have put the whole country in the gurgler...
I don't think they hate you.
I don't think they hate you. They just think you are greedy and generally not that bright which is why you need to rely on property to get ahead compared with people who have good incomes.Also many of you are so fixed on property you have gorged yourself on debt to get it and missed the 2007/08 high point and are now facing a decade of dropping off in values.Shows how bright you are not.
register for the site, god
register for the site, god this place with be full of glass 1/2 empty people. All those people that want property prices to fall have to be honest with themselves, the only reason they want them to drop is so they can purchase and then hope the prices will go up, because who would buy in a falling market ah (4000 people last month). There is a big difference between PI and speculators and its the speculatiors that have been caught out like the Mum and Dad who went crazy on the stockmarket back in the 80's.
Bernard you have made some sweeping staements about how much property prices will fall (you never said in real terms) starting with 30% in 2008 and 15% this year from there peak in November 2007. Now be a man and pick a realistic figure, if it doesn't reach that figure you must make a stament indicating you really know nothing and appologise to the nationa for all the dribble over the last 3 years.
"All those people that want
"All those people that want property prices to fall have to be honest with themselves, the only reason they want them to drop is so they can purchase and then hope the prices will go up..."
No, that's your imbecilic and greed-addled Property As Religion mindset at work.
Most of us don't particularly care which way prices go...we just like to discuss the fundamental economics behind it all.
Right now property prices are falling because they cannot remain where they are...we discuss this, much to the chagrin of Property As Religion types, who prefer to stick with the hype and spin of the bubble days.
I am in the RE industry and
I am in the RE industry and the main reason why PI's are in it is for the capital gain as to a person they thought prices would just keep continuing to go up and up. The up and up stopped in 2007, has had a couple of dead cat bounces but in the last three months or so has started its steady and certain drop in values as the debt gorged inflated prices need to be delveraged to get us back to sensible values that reflect our poor average incomes in NZ. That is the reality and it will be the reality for years to come. If you have too much debt you are going to come under some strain and might have to sell down. I will not sell my properties and one positive outcome is my kids and their generation will be able to buy their first home with their deposit just like I did.
...one positive outcome is my
...one positive outcome is my kids and their generation will be able to buy their first home with their deposit just like I did.
What a shame about those of us who have recently been priced out of the market by the likes of you. Thanks very much. For nothing.
In the meantime you will have
In the meantime you will have benefited from paying less to rent, than to own. Or are you missing the Debt Slavery that will come your way in a few months time? Just wait until you see what that feels like. Like an indentured servant, you will be at the beck and call of your property.
Just hang in there Anon.
Just hang in there Anon. Prices are going to come back to a level we would not think possible at this time. It is going to be slow and steady and will take a few years. Just keep building a deposit. The only mistake you could make from here is get in to early and miss the bottom. To make sure you get the bottom you might need to let a couple of up months go by. But that is years away. Paying interest to the bank just means the bank is a very expensive landlord especially in a dropping market. Great news for FHB's.
"Just hang in there Anon.
"Just hang in there Anon. Prices are going to come back to a level we would not think possible at this time."
Good luck with that.
The only way prices can increase and stay increased is if average incomes increase and/or the cost-of-living decreases.
What are the odds?
Stand back, it does amazing
Stand back, it does amazing things to your perspective.
Clue: don't take 'investment' for granted.
that includes a return to BAU.
We do not want them to drop.
We do not want them to drop. The fact is they are dropping drop kick and will continue for years to come,month by month and inflation will only add to it. BH got it right % wise but got the time span wrong. It has started it is accelerating and has years to go. His 30% will look pretty well right in the years to come. Hold on tight. It is going to be rough for those with highly leveraged LVR's.
Something that the PI
Something that the PI cultists need to realise is that what people want doesn't determine reality. You can wish as hard as you like that prices will rise, fall, or stagnate, but it's all meaningless and fundamentals are what matter.
The anonymous who is the
The anonymous who is the lawyer has to be the PI?
So he's definitely not relying on property to match other peoples incomes ( maybe in some cases their life changes, bad fortunes, mismanagement of their affairs, or honesty etc will help him).
Its just he's driven to accumulate a lot more dosh than he'll ever need.
Naturally he supports higher wages ( more immigration and less emigration) = more tenants paying higher rents.
So other anonymous, the lawyer anonymous is certainly not dumb as you allude.
As conveyancing lawyers are "in the know" he'll be buying properties below market every time, so will never go wrong.
He will be one of the survivor PI's if it does turn really bad.
lets look at the
lets look at the fundamentals, Are Building material prices falling?Are labour rates falling?Are wages falling? Are we creating land close to well serviced areas or cities? Is GST dropping?Is the world population getting smaller? is NZ an attractive place to live?
Bernard got nothing right, he just did a Noustradamous statement but he did say prices would falling 30% within the next 2 years (2008)
None of those factors you
None of those factors you mention come into play if you are over-leveraged and need to sell. Think about it. What has driven property to the extemes we have today? Capital gains~ none of those other items. And CG have gone. Too many have relied on either cashing up, and taking the profit, or have used the house as an ATM ( the capital gain). So in a fundementally balanced market, your points come into play. Not one that is out of equilibrium.
Are incomes increasing? Is
Are incomes increasing? Is the cost-of-living diminishing? Will banks return to the carefree days of 105% mortgages?
It doesn't matter how much prices rise...what matters is is people can pay the prices.
That's the number one fundamental right there.
Bernard, can I please swear
Bernard, can I please swear just this once?
Sicky B - that's not fundamentals - that's 'in your face obviouses'.
Like I said, perspective.
read this (I put it up the other day, but you obviously haven't) :
http://www.hubbertpeak.com/bartlett/hubbert.htm
take a look at his dates - even the sublimely optimistic ones.
Then have a wee think about which of your fundamentals continues in light of it, and for how long.
I suggest that you have a position where the cards have to fall a certain way, and are looking at things in that light..
Some of us are not in a precarious position, because we did our homework first. From a no-vested-interest, no-bias start.
Interestingly (sorry) Bernard gets it right, but for what I would call a symptomatic reason, rather than a causal one.
In my humble, unbiased, non-racial, well-spoken opinion.
Are property prices
Are property prices increasing? No. Do people want to live in an indebted nation where they get taxed most of their wages? No.
Believe me, the latter is coming, and its going to hurt everyone, even me.
Are a lot of PI's greedy? YES
HEY MORONS! SO 3 YEARS AFTER
HEY MORONS! SO 3 YEARS AFTER THE PEAK OF THE BOOM IN MID 2007 HOUSE PRICES ARE ONLY DOWN BY 5%. WHEN ARE YOU LOSERS GOING TO GIVE UP YOUR ABSURD PREDICTIONS OF A PROPERTY MELTDOWN? WHAT A PACK OF COMPLETE IDIOTS, ESPECIALLY YOU BERNARD!
The fundamentals sure do
The fundamentals sure do sting, huh?
Good.
You're the moron, go buy
You're the moron, go buy another property with 110% LVR
What it indicates is that new
What it indicates is that new construction will be limited so if you are looking at purchasing a home (place to live and bring up the family) you are better to get a secondhand home as the GST and labour rate is already included in the improvement value and you need only 20% of its value compared to 50% of a land value.
Ah! So that's it. Your
Ah!
So that's it.
Your desperate to sell off your leaky-home investment property portfolio.
Hey, good luck!
RESIDENTIAL PROEPRTY HAS
RESIDENTIAL PROEPRTY HAS TURNED OUT TO BE ONE OF THE BEST ASSET CLASSES TO BE IN DURING THE GFC. DOWN ONLY 5%, THATS A BRILLIANT PRFORMANCE COMPARED TO MOST OTHERS, EXCEPT FOR CASH AND GOLD. THIS IS THE RESULT OF STRONG SUPPLY / DEMAND FUNDAMENTALS, THERE IS A FUNDAMENTAL SHORTAGE OF HOUSES IN NZ, THEREFORE PRICES HAVE HELD UP THROUGH THE BIGGEST RECESSION IN 80 YEARS. YET ALL BERNARD'S SIMPLE BRAIN CAN DO IS TALK UP A MELTDOWN THAT HAS NOT AND WILL NOT EVENTUATE. NZ PROPERTY IS SOUND. SUCKED IN LOSERS.
You weep yourself to sleep,
You weep yourself to sleep, right?
It's okay, you can tell us, we're your friends.
There's a big future for you
There's a big future for you in radio ads for budget used car lots.
Unfortunately no-one is
Unfortunately no-one is buying cars right now.
In that case, there's a big
In that case, there's a big future for him in yelling gibberish at random passers-by at bus stops.
Nah, that's Paul Henry's job.
Nah, that's Paul Henry's job.
There is no shortage, check
There is no shortage, check trade me.
....except cash... Yep.
....except cash... Yep. That's what those who saw the writing on the wall in 2007 have. Lots of cash.... That's the kind of loser I can hadle being....and the purchaing power, for all sorts of assets, is only going to get stronger from hereon in.
The land value is way too
The land value is way too much for what it is actually worth, compared to the average wage in this country, and this is what is going to have drop in value, not the house on the land, its going to be a big drop when we get into the real depression, a lot of people are feeling it now, but not nearly enough for eveyone to realise we are in the middle of a depression.
OH I SEE, SO IT IS GOING TO
OH I SEE, SO IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN SOME TIME IN THE FUTURE? NOT RIGHT NOW, BUT AT SOME STAGE? WE ARE IN A DEPRESSION BUT WE JUST DONT KNOW IT? HONESTLY, YOU PEOPLE ON THIS WEBSITE NEED TO LAY OFF THE WEED, ITS FRYING YOUR BRAINS.
AND FOR THE RECORD, I WOULD NEVER SELL NOW, WHY WOULD I SELL AT THE BOTTOM OF THE MARKET??
Because its not the bottom of
Because its not the bottom of the market and you talk in caps too much.
Man, I have to have a go at
Man, I have to have a go at expressing myself in this way.
THAT LEMUR THAT DIED IN THE EARTHQUAKE WASNT AN ACCIDENT IT WAS MURDERED BECAUSE IT KNEW TOO MUCH AND WAS GOING TO TELL ALL ABOUT SCF I KNOW BECAUSE IT PHONED ME AND TOLD ME EVERYTHING AND YES I SPEAK FLUENT LEMUR YOU BITTER RENTER LOSERS.
Yikes. That was too easy.
1. It's not the bottom. Not
1. It's not the bottom. Not even close. Still a long way to go.
2. You'd sell then because you'd have to. Debt only goes away magically if you're a Wall Street banker or a Southland dairy farmer. Everyone else has to repay their debt at some point.
When you owe more than you can repay, you will sell your property to anyone willing to buy it, for any price. Well, actually the bank will take it from you and then sell it to anyone willing to buy it, for any price. You'll be too busy elsewhere, lining up for a free bowl of soup.
No lack of capital, I see
No lack of capital, I see
Fyi ... Timber mills cutting
Fyi ... Timber mills cutting jobs and predicting a slow down next year should help drop building costs in the medium term.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/features/4103931/Timber-firms-in-for-more-trimming
"But while export markets for sawn timber have been strong this year and there has been some bounce back in domestic sales, the signs for the next year or so are far from promising, although Saturday's big earthquake in Canterbury is predicted to provide a short-term boost.
......
Moutere Timber had stopped sending timber to Asia because there was no longer any money in it."
My cousin works for another major timber company in Nelson and they've also recently stopped exports to Asia due lack of demand.
there will be plenty of
there will be plenty of demand on the other side of the island come next year
Did you have some fingers
Did you have some fingers crossed when you wrote that? If you didn't have some fingers crossed when you wrote that, it won't come true. You know that, right?
I dont own any property but i
I dont own any property but i would like to, but if i listen to bernard i will never end up purcahsing becasue i would keep looking for the bottom. Once your in the game you in the game.
Get a builders report to make sure its not a leaky home anonymous
There is always a bottom and
There is always a bottom and a top. The recent top was 2007 and the next bottom is going to be some years away. Why would you buy for investment in a dropping market especially if you are borrowing unless you were a fool as all you are doing is taking over someone elses problem. Patience is very important when investing.
Plainly you are still too
Plainly you are still too ignorant to be making a decision as important as buying a house.
All you have to do is look and see if the prices are in line with the fundamentals, or if they're the artificially inflated ones seen during a bubble period.
Take into account average incomes, bank lending requirements, and the cost of living, because nothing else really matters.
I own property, but don't
I own property, but don't believe in greedy PI over-leveraging rubbish. My advice is if you want something you save for it, even if it is a home.
So is this site PI v Renters,
So is this site PI v Renters, feels that way.
And just when did you start
And just when did you start to notice the mildly contrasting view points on this site?
Not quite so
Not quite so straightforward.
Like many here, I own my home as well as a holiday place near water. I'm also entirely debt free. My property is not an investment. My house is a home, and my bach/crib is my other home, and valuations and CG is of little-to-no interest to me.
But I am a critic of people who view residential housing as nothing more than a tradeable commodity, because they are (and have) stolen the possibility of home ownership out from under a lot of other people, most of them the younger generations.
They have also created a culture which views property as the only viable form of investment (yes, I've heard all the blather about why they believe it, spare me...) and severely weakened the entire NZ economy as a result.
So I have zero problem with those who invest in a home, but a buttload of issues with people who believe themselves to be the rightful owner of every house in the country, and the rest of us should be their grateful tenant-serfs.
No its normal, everyday,
No its normal, everyday, honest, hard-working people vs greedy, self centred, don't care if they screw up the country as long as they get paid people
I am hearing that insurance
I am hearing that insurance companies are reneging on insuring houses that are due to settle in Christchurch and that is even if the houses are not damaged. Now that is serious stuff. It needs to be sorted out by the government. It just goes to show you can have too much invested in one class in one location. A timely reminder for us all. Diversify in classes of investment and spread the location.
BERNARDS PREDICTION OF A 30%
BERNARDS PREDICTION OF A 30% DROP IN HOUSE PRICES IS QUITE POSSIBLY THE BIGGEST FUCKUP IN NZ BUSINESS JOURNALISM........YET YOU IDIOTS STILL THINK HE IS SMART. HAHAHAHAHAHA. TRAGIC.
He got the percentage about
He got the percentage about right but just too tight a time span to get it. It will happen but is just going to take several years. 200 comments and nearly all realistic views on where property is going which is down. The PI's are certainly losing their cockiness and so they should. Property is going to die by a thousand cuts over many years.
YOU'RE PREDICTING THAT AN
YOU'RE PREDICTING THAT AN ASSET CLASS WHICH HAS RISEN CONSISTENTLY FOR OVER 2000 YEARS IS NOW GOING TO DIE BY A THOUSAND CUTS? MATE YOU JUST ARENT A VERY SMART PERSON. I'M SORRY.
Have a look at those 2000
Have a look at those 2000 years. What do you notice? What do you notice? Property gores up...and down...over cycles. Heres, right now, we have an example of one going down.
Yes, correct, and the general
Yes, correct, and the general upward trend is ALWAYS in line with a general upward trend in CoL-adjusted incomes. If and when the income line flattens or dips over a long period, so do house prices.
But, Cost of Living adjusted
But, Cost of Living adjusted incomes have been falling for years......Oh.....
Shhhh! You'll frighten the
Shhhh!
You'll frighten the PIs!
Actually the biggest mistakes
Actually the biggest mistakes (stuff ups) are made by people who just consider one point of view as being valid....I don’t appreciate much of your tone or rhetoric. I dare to say that its not welcome on this site.
I think you should leave this
I think you should leave this thread and go take your pills mate
WHY, IS THE TRUTH STARTING TO
WHY, IS THE TRUTH STARTING TO HURT?
something is
something is
I don't agree with Bernard's
I don't agree with Bernard's 30% prediction but good on him for making a prediction. No-one else in this country has the balls to do it. Plus its nice to promote debate.
I agree however that its tiresome to continually malign PIs on this website. Why is owning investment property being greedy? I don't see how its different to any other business activity, and the personal attacks stink of jealosy to me.
And I don't see why a higher proportion of home-ownership is good for the country. Does it make NZ more competitive, does it drive productivity? No. So please can someone explain why its good. In most other countries the home-ownership rate is much lower, Switzerland for example. Does it matter if people occupy freehold or leasehold? Is there a correlation with happiness?
I know the answer to that
I know the answer to that one.
I lived in a sattelite village, where everyone owned. They all had a pride in the place, and a vested interest (not just $) in it's well-being.
Then some bought a second house in the village, as a renter. The types who rented had no such community allegiance, things started to go missing, crime news started mentioning those convicted as 'of the village'.
The school started to have to put resources into 'at risk' kids.
And so on.
If you don't give folk a piece of the cake, you can hardly be surprised if they de-ice yours.
Careful: enough people
Careful: enough people already gleefully choose to believe the utter lie that "renters are criminal scum" without playing into their hands.
I know property owners who would rob blind orphans if they thought they could get away with it.
Did Mother Theresa own a house?
But your argument holds some water...When you force people out of the circle they will feel less or no obligation to those still within.
Powderdownkiwi Then why
Powderdownkiwi
Then why don't we get rid of the social welfare benefits and make everyone work, and that way people would be far more responsible. At the moment the hanouts are killing this country and many on this site's attitude to life.
As you can see I'm not only a
As you can see I'm not only a schoolboy, I'm an incredibly stupid schoolboy.
You haven't read - or at
You haven't read - or at least you haven't read and understood - what I've been on about here for some time.
You have to redefine work.
This planet is being chewed into at 3 times (3x) the sustainable rate. So just making more people do something which will speed that process up is nothing short of socially criminal.
You then have to ask: "what is sustainable work', and go for that.
Ubfortunately, having done that, you've just relegated half the current workforce to the scrap-heap.
There is an interesting flip-side, though - coming soon to a planet/nation/city/town near you. It's this: If we use fossil energy to the equivalent of having 300 (some say 1000) slaves apiece, then shortly we can expect to be working very much harder. It should put paid to the coming obesity epidemic, the type2 diabetes epidemic, and perhaps tire folk out before retirement age!
Not sure what you mean about attitudes here - I suspect we are a diverse and uncategorisable lot.
sustaina....yawn get a grip
sustaina....yawn get a grip dude. People make commodoties valuable. If something is scarce and becomes expensive the use this thingthats in their head called a brain, and work out alternatives. Do we still hunt whales to supplythe fat for candles to light our home??? do we still burn coal to boil the water to drive the steam engine that transports all our goods around the place? Do we still use an oxen to pull the hoe so we can till or fields by hand??
You Greenines are all moonbats, who due you berevity of intellect can't see any alternative apart from your doomsday cult outcomes. You all go on and on about a lack of oil, minerals, trees, etc when the reality is the opposite. Technology is allowing us to reap higher yeilds through our efforts, and tap into what was once unaccessable. Technlogy will push us forward, and decrease our reliance on some resources. Some industrie will fail, but others will be born. Our lives will be enhanced. So why don;t you do yourself a favour and go look at some of the new inventions coming out in the various engineering magazines and look at the possibilities that the future holds, instead of banging on about something that will never come to pass.....
There are correlations
There are correlations between ownership and positive social outcomes, like a low level of underage crime, good educational results etc. But it could be a big call to say that ownership is a direct causative factor. It's probably more likely that home ownership is a proxy for stability, and that the benefits only accrue where people tend to stay in one house long-term, so that they get to know the neighbours, the kids aren't always being uprooted and having to go through stressful school changes etc. In a situation where buying, selling and moving are on a shorter time-frame, the statistical benefits of owning over renting would disappear.
fair comments, both.
fair comments, both.
I promised myself I wouldn't
I promised myself I wouldn't come here......now look what you made me do.....are you not just sick to your stomach talking about it......
Bernard's right your all going to ...........die.!....haha ha ha ha HA HA Ha...wheeze.ha heh.
Happy day to All :<)
EXACTLY! WHAT IS SO
EXACTLY! WHAT IS SO DISHONOURABLE ABOUT BEING A LANDLORD?? WHAT IS SO HONOURABLE ABOUT HAVING YOUR MONEY IN THE BANK AND RENTING??
I DISGREE WITH YOU WHEN YOU SAY GOOD ON BERNARD FOR MAKING A PREDICTION. IT WAS AN ABSURD PREDICTION, AND WHEN YOU ARE IN A POSTION OF INFLUENCE SUCH AS ANY JOURNALIST IS, THERE COMES WITH THAT A CERTAIN RESPONSBILITY REGARDING WHAT YOU PUBLISH. IF BERNARD IS GOING TO PUBLISH CRAP, THEN HE BETTER BE PREPARED TO HANDLE THE BACKLASH.
Nothing at all to do with
Nothing at all to do with honour. It's only about financial sense. And sepculative property, purchased or held here, doesn't make any . If you think it does, that up to you.
My friend, you and I should
My friend, you and I should hook up - I'll bring the KY. I love a fellow man who feels as passionately about property investing as I do!
Oh yes! Thinking about
Oh yes! Thinking about property investment gives me multiple orgasms, and sometimes I'm not even touching myself when it happens!
come again?
come again?
Don't mind if I do. And hey,
Don't mind if I do. And hey, PI fantasies are much more pleasurable than the golden shower we've taken from the finance companies, and the recent bailout of SCF.