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Top 10 at 10 with NZ Mint: WOF on Hubbard's VW lapses; Deleveraging 101; 'Rip off NZ'; US tax liens anyone?; Dilbert

Here are my Top 10 links from around the Internet at 10 past 12 pm brought to you in association with New Zealand Mint for your luncheon reading pleasure.
I welcome your additions and comments below, or please send suggestions for Wednesday's Top 10 at 10 via email to bernard.hickey@interest.co.nz
1. 'Rip off NZ' - Justin Marshall, who has just returned from living in Britain, agrees in this NZHerald piece with rugby commentator Peter Bills that the cost of living in New Zealand seems inordinately high compared to Britain. And it's not just about the exchange rate jump in the NZ dollar versus the pound, he reckons. This series is sparking some real debate. It highlights the benefits of an exchange rate depreciation for an economy like Britain's: it makes you more competitive. It also highlights the inflation we've had here in the last four or five years, mostly driven by government fees and spending.
"All of my mates who had come home kept saying to me that I needed to be aware that the expense of living in New Zealand is something you really have to take into account ... It really has become an expensive country to live in." He said his weekly grocery spend in Britain was between £150 and £200 ($323-$431) to feed his family of five. Here, the bill is $400 to $500 a week.
"I've really noticed it with things like cheese, milk and bread and butter ... When I was in the UK I bought a leg of imported New Zealand lamb for 17 quid [$36.60]. I bought the same thing here and it was close to $40.
"Even when you take the exchange rate into account, it still costs more to buy our own meat here."
2. '7 lean years' - Influential fund manager Jeremy Grantham has written in his July commentary that he has given up on the prospect of inflation and now sees deflationary risks. He now sees 7 lean years ahead. Again, this is all about deleveraginmg.
Related Topics
"I, like many, was mesmerised by the potential for money supply to increase dramatically, given the floods of government debt used in the bailout.
But now, better late than never, I am willing to take sides: with weak loan supply and fairly weak loan demand, the volocity of money has slowed and inflation seems a distant prospect.
Suddenly (for me), it is fairly clear that a weak economy and declining or flat prices are the prospect for the immediate future."
3. A lot on his plate - It seems Allan Hubbard has let the Warrant of Fitness on his legendary 1971 VW Beetle (registration DJ8219) lapse, according to Carjam.co.nz, which is a site that allows you to check the WOF and licence details of any car you are thinking of buying.
This site says the WOF lapsed on June 10 (10 days before he was put into Statutory Management) and says there are also some inconsistencies with the odometer readings.
The license is due to expire on August 15.
I'm sure Allan Hubbard has been very busy with other matters in recent months and/or has not had time to drive.
I'd welcome any reports of whether this car has been driving around Timaru in recent weeks or days. I'm not sure I'd want to be the meter maid or policeman in Timaru that wrote out that ticket... HT a reader via twitter.
I'm guessing this car would be worth quite a few thousand dollars if it was put up for sale on TradeMe.
But maybe not as much as the NZ$60,000 given by SCF's Face Finance to the Child Cancer Foundation in this cheque photographed with Hubbard and the legendary VW in 2008.
4. Geithner vs Warren - The battle within the Obama administration over whether Elizabeth Warren should head up the new Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is shaping up as a real test of Obama's mettle and whether the Big 6 banks' lackies inside Obama's administration, Tim Geithner and Larry Summers, can protect their interests.
John R Talbott at Huffington Post has an excellent piece on why the Big 6 don't want Warren and why Geithner is fighting so hard to stop her behind the scenes. A great insight into the real problems underneath the US political economy. If Warren doesn't get in I reckon the American left will abandon Obama and he will be an utterly lame duck President after November.
I reckon too there's a real risk of uncontrollable political revolts inside America if Obama sides with the banker again. You could get an unholy alliance between the left and the Tea Parties. America's political elite is morally bankrupt and corrupt.
The trillions of dollars of underwater mortgages, CDO's and worthless credit default swaps are still on the banks books. Geithner is going to the familiar "bank in crisis" playbook and hoping that the banks can earn their way out of their solvency problems over time so the banks are continuing to slowly write off their problem loans but at a rate that will take years, if not decades, to clean up the problem. And this is where defeat of the nomination of Elizabeth Warren becomes critical for Geithner.
For Geithner's strategy to work, the banks have to find increasing sources of profitability in their business segments to balance out their annual loan loss recognition from their existing bad loans in an environment in which they continue to recognize new losses in prime residential mortgages, commercial real estate lending, sovereign debt investments, bridge loans to private equity groups, leverage buyout lending and credit card defaults. The banks have made no secret as to where they will find this increase in cash flow. They intend to soak their small retail customers, their consumer and small business borrowers, their credit card holders and their small depositors with increased costs and fees and are continuing many of the bad mortgage practices that led to the crisis (ARM's, option pay deals, zero down payments, second mortgages, teaser rates, etc).
American and Banking Market News reports this week that the rule changes in the financial reform bill may lead banks to start implementing fees that had essentially disappeared from the industry early in the new millennium, such as fees for not meeting minimum balance requirements on a checking account, or reinstituting fees for certain online banking transactions that are currently free or charging to receive a paper statement or to talk to a live teller as Bank of America's CEO has recently proposed.
Bonus 4 - Gratuitous fun at the expense of our good friends at National Bank. Someone at National Bank missed out on the 'n' in their Online Banking trial. The tag says 'Better Online Baking coming soon'. First a bank. Now a baker. Ho Ho. HT a friend from twitter.

5. A disturbing commentary - Matt Simmons is an old oil industry investment banker. He is the insider's insider, yet he is saying BP's oil gusher and associated methane leakage has destroyed the Gulf of Mexico and could wipe out the human population on the southern Gulf coast. It sounds needlessly scary, but have a listen to this interview and have a look at this guy's background. He is seriously informed and serious. Worth looking at at least. HT Blair. Jim Kunstler has a cautious view too.
Simmons's current warning about the situation focuses on the gigantic "lake" of crude oil that is pooling under great pressure 4000 to 5000 feet down in the "basement" of the Gulf's waters. More particularly, he is concerned that a tropical storm will bring this oil up - as tropical storms and hurricanes usually do with deeper cold water - and with it clouds of methane gas that will move toward the Gulf shore and kill a lot of people.
Simmons makes two additional points that are pretty radical: he says that several states along the Gulf ought to begin systematic evacuations in counties along the shore now. Secondly, Simmons maintains - as he has from near the beginning of the blowout - that the US military should take over operations from BP and ought to set off a "small" nuclear device down in the well-bore to fuse the rock into glass and seal the site permanently.
Iif Matt Simmons is correct, and it turns out that the US government has been played by BP, then remaining public trust in the competence and legitimacy of government could evaporate.
This is not a happy thing to contemplate at a time when the state of the nation and its economy are so fragile. What follows could make the current political situation seem like little more than, well, than a tea party, compared to the politics-to-come.
6. Make or break decade - This piece from The China Vortex is a useful summary of the longer term challenges for China. China has to watch out for the Japan problem of an ageing population, particularly in the wake of their one child policy. HT Blair Rogers @bmr789 and the authoer Paul Denlinger @pdenlinger.
China’s economic development so far is based on two assumptions which will come under pressure over the next decade. The first assumption is that rapid urbanization is a good thing, since that will lead to the development of an urban middle class. The challenge over the next ten years will be how to find jobs for that urban middle class, whose living costs have gone dramatically higher, while the global macro climate has dramatically worsened? This is already showing up in the rise of the ant people, educated white collar workers who cannot make it up all the way to the top of the pyramid.
For the first time in its history, the belief that education is the path to success in Chinese society will be challenged. The second assumption will be a shortage of blue-collar factory workers, which has already begun to show up in southern China in the form of strikes and slowdowns at foreign-owned factories. As China’s working population dramatically ages over the next decade, this situation will worsen. Technology can, to some extent, ameliorate the labor shortage, but it cannot generate demand. During the next decade, we will find out if China can become rich, on a sustained basis, before it grows old.
If the Chinese government does not succeed, then China will head into a prolonged economic slump after 2020, which will be much like Japan’s, and further adding to what is likely to become a prolonged global economic depression. In addition, the workforce which starts working after that year will have to deal with a worsening environment and dues, in the form of non-performing loans (NPLs), from spending in the high-growth years. That is why this next decade is make-or-break for China.
7. America's US$4 trillion problem - Dhaval Joshi, Chief Strategist at London based hedge fund RAB Capital, has written an analysis that Barry Ritholz and Bloomberg have picked up on that says America has US$4 trillion too much mortgage debt. HT John Walley via email.
Essentially, Joshi is saying that house prices have dropped, but the mortgages haven't, which means the size of the deleveraging task is enormous. Either a massive jubilee is required (huge debt forgiveness) or US households face decades of penury and weak consumption growth. The chart is as scary as all hell.
Joshi concludes that America will have to keep interest rates ultra low for an extraordinarily long period, Japan style.
Can the US economy really return to “business as usual” when it has 4 million houses surplus to requirement, when 1 out of 4 mortgages are in negative equity, and when by our calculation, it is burdened with $4 trillion of excess mortgage debt, equivalent to 30% of GDP?
For many years, total mortgage debt consistently and reliably equalled 0.4 times the value of the US housing stock. Intuitively, this average of 0.4 makes perfect sense as every property usually has a mortgage ranging from 0 to 0.9 times its value. So in 1990, $6 trillion of housing collateral could support $2.5 trillion of mortgages, and by 2006, $23 trillion of housing collateral could support $10 trillion of mortgages.
But since then, the US housing stock’s value has slumped to $16 trillion which means the amount of mortgage lending supportable by the collateral has plunged to $6 trillion. However, actual mortgage debt has remained at $10 trillion – $4 trillion too high.
With a quarter of US mortgages underwater, the Fed must heed the advice of its own research if it wants to prevent a cascade of defaults and the consequent repercussions on the financial system and the economy. Hence, expect US interest rates to stay ultra low until millions of mortgages escape out of negative equity.
8. US Deleveraging 101 - Roger Lowenstein has written an excellent 'How To' guide in the New York Times on what is happening with consumers deleveraging in the United States.
He makes the point that US debt to disposable income is currently running at 126% and there is another 5 years of deleveraging to come. The same ratio in New Zealand is 156% so that means....who knows.
My pick is at least 10 years of de-leveraging to come. That chart above suggests something much, much more ominous. Remember, US household debt/equity ratios have actually gotten much, much worse in the last couple of years because of the destruction of equity. That hasn't happened here much...yet.
How much of that debt will have to be repaid before people return to their customary, and stimulative, profligacy? Thus far, we have undone only a portion of the excess. Household debt now stands at 26 percent more than income — still very high by historical standards.
“There is no magical level where it should be,” says David Resler, an economist with Nomura Securities. “There is no clear equilibrium.” Absent a massive federal stimulus (and maybe even with one), the economy is not likely to show much life until deleveraging ends. The conventional view is that we are almost there.
That assumes that the average American will resume borrowing and spending before the prior excesses are fully washed out. To return to the status quo of before the housing boom — say, back to debt to income ratios prevailing in 2000 — it would take five more years of deleveraging at the current rate.
Deleveraging cycles are rare, notes David Rosenberg, an economist with the Toronto firm Gluskin Sheff, but five to seven years is typically what they take.
9. US Tax liens anyone? - Further to the above, It seems New Zealand's Dean Letfus, who is a big fan of property investments, has done a U-turn on the sort of US tax lien investing that the amazing Phil Jones has spruiked. Once Letfus thought they were a bad idea, now Rob Stock at the Sunday Star Times reports that he thinks it might be a good idea. My personal view is that any investment that depends on recovering money from houses 'owned' by broke Americans is an insanely risky venture, but hey...I'm not making any money from selling that advice.
Letfus told the Sunday Star-Times his position had changed on tax liens.
"We looked at it at the time [in March last year] and we couldn't find anybody doing well out of it," he said.
His earlier opposition had, he said, been partly based on his personal antipathy for Jones, as well as other factors such as exchange rate risk and what he saw as excessive costs. But Letfus said his new view was based on a changed exchange rate position, as well as the tax lien education being sold at the seminar being delivered by Steve Goodey in New Zealand rather than out of the US.
"Because Steve's involved and people are making good money out of it, and the world has a totally different look to it, it is a good opportunity for some people."
Tax lien certificates are a product of US local authorities. When a household fails to pay local property taxes (the equivalent of our rates), the local authority may recover the debt by auctioning it off to investors. In return for paying the debt, investors buy the right to recover the money and levy penalty interest, sometimes as high as 25%. The tax defaulters are often struggling families hit hard by America's housing and jobs market crashes. The debt is entered as a lien against their homes, and should they not pay, the certificate holder can force the sale of the property.
10. Totally irrelevant picture - Darth Vader Tries to Clean the Black Sea With a Brita Filter. He'd need a lot of filters for the Gulf of Mexico. But he does have the force on his side...
11. Totally irrelevant video - A girl raised by a Wolf is being taken into protective custody...the onion
Girl Raised From Birth By Wolf Blitzer Taken Into Protective Custody





81 Comments
Adding to #1, Peter Bills:
Adding to #1,
Peter Bills: Don't shoot the messenger, guys
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=1065...
Grim.
I think this story is
I think this story is completely an illustration of a the relative currency revaluations...
The value of the pound has recently plummeted, and prices in the uk will slowly but surely increase to reflect that. My guess, is that what this is going to mean in inflation terms, hasn't yet dawned on the average Brit.
The bit that is hurrting the average Kiwi, is that even though our currency is overvalued in historical terms, we are not seeing the asset/goods price deflation that that should bring. I have a feeling it is coming, unavoidable, and will hurt many. Maybe a good ol'dose of NZD QE will save us?
Great link to James Quinn.
Great link to James Quinn. Rambling rant of the best sort. Don't agree with it all, but makes you think. HT Wally
Baby Boomers can keep running on their treadmills, popping vitamins, and trying to stay a step ahead of the grim reaper, but the grave beckons. The real tragedy is that because of the fiscal irresponsibility of politicians and the Boomer generation, future generations of Americans will for the first time in U.S. history have a lower standard of living than their parents. The wealth of the nation has been frittered away by statists and war mongers. The current fiscal path of the country is unsustainable.
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article21225.html
cheers
Bernard
"James Quinn is a senior
"James Quinn is a senior director of strategic planning for a major university."
Really? Which one? You'd think that if it was a "major university" such as, say, Harvard or Yale, he'd be proud to name it, yet he doesn't.
So I went Googling: "James Quinn" +senior director of strategic planning +site:edu
All I turned up was an old reference to somebody of that name in that position at the Wharton School of Business, but he's not listed as a faculty member on their site.
So which "major university" is he employed by?
THE INTERNET: WHERE EVERYBODY CAN BE A WORLD FAMOUS EXPERT ON EVERY SUBJECT!
Anon "James Quinn is a senior
Anon "James Quinn is a senior director of strategic planning for a major university."
Really? Which one? You'd think that if it was a "major university" such as, say, Harvard or Yale, he'd be proud to name it, yet he doesn't"
Don't know where you read that statement but honestly who cares?.
For more James Quinn essays, visit his "the burning platform" website. He has a new one every month, beautifully researched and an often novel perspective. Very well worth checking out on a regular basis IMHO.
http://theburningplatform.com/
one of his previous
http://theburningplatform.com/blog/2010/05/10/the-big-short-how-wall-street-destroyed-main-street/
"Don't know where you read
"Don't know where you read that statement..."
It's at the bottom of his blog page.
"...but honestly who cares?"
Well I care. He's trying to sell his opinion based upon relevant qualifications and experience.
Nowadays people can go to jail for falsifying their CVs.
Sorry Anon, couldn't find
Sorry Anon, couldn't find that statement on JQ's blog page, bit of a stretch to start insinuating he's "falsifying his CV" don't you think?.
http://theburningplatform.com/
Credit was probably from The Marketoracle, don't believe he is trying to sell his opinion based on anything but the merits of his arguments.
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article21225.html
Near the bottom of the page.
Here, let me quote him:
"By James Quinn
quinnadvisors@comcast.net
James Quinn is a senior director of strategic planning for a major university. James has held financial positions with a retailer, homebuilder and university in his 22-year career. Those positions included treasurer, controller, and head of strategic planning. He is married with three boys and is writing these articles because he cares about their future. He earned a BS in accounting from Drexel University and an MBA from Villanova University. He is a certified public accountant and a certified cash manager.
These articles reflect the personal views of James Quinn. They do not necessarily represent the views of his employer, and are not sponsored or endorsed by his employer.
© 2010 Copyright James Quinn - All Rights Reserved"
James Quinn often cross
James Quinn often cross references to Neil Howe and William Strauss' The Fourth Turning, which is a great read.
Howe & Strauss traced back US/British history to highlight recurring socio/economic/cultural patterns or cycles. A full cycle is 80-100 years (ie one adult lifespan) and comprises four "season" lasting 20-25 years each. Each generation is shaped by which phase they were in when they were born, came of age, entered middle life and entered elderhood.
So, there is a High/Spring - which emerges from the ashes of the last cycle. The last one started after WW 2. A period of new growth, where societies are more externally focused. Hope and optimism spring eternal, so usually will be marked by a boom of babies - What Howe & Strauss call a "Prophet generation".
Next is an Awakening/Summer where a new values system emerges - think the 1960s & 70s. Societies are more introspective. The adults take time out to "find themselves", resulting in a very hands-off style of parenting - what Howe & Strauss call a "Nomad generation". Eg, the 1970s was a low point for Disney films and think about how children were depicted in films such as The Exorcist, The Omen, Chuckie etc (I'm a Gen X Nomad so excuse me if I dwell on this a little!!)
Third is an Unravelling/Autumn - the new values are now more mainstream, the Prophet generation reaches its economic peak, and things become increasingly more materialistic, eg the cult of the celebrity (1920s Hollywood had remarkable parallels to recent times); respect for authority also reaches rock bottom. The last unravelling started in the early 1980s. Renaissance time for parenting as the babyboomers have children (think "Baby on Board" stickers) - what Howe and Strauss call a "Hero generation", the last one including those who fought in WW 2.
And finally comes a Crisis/Winter - crunchtime. Usually starts with an economic meltdown and ends in a very paradigm-shifting war (death). Previous periods in US history were 1930s depression/WW 2, the Civil War, the Revolutionary War. Children born during this time tend to be the most protected, mainly because their parents are distracted by Crisis events. Howe and Strauss call them the Artist Generation.
And, then rebirth is signalled by a new high...
Interestingly, Howe and Strauss wrote the book in 1997, in the middle of the last unravelling period (Strauss has since died) but their predictions for the subsequent years are eerily prophetic and lead right into the next Crisis which - you guessed it - we're either now at the beginning of or not far-off.
I posted the bit about Howe &
I posted the bit about Howe & Strauss. Didn't mean to be anonymous :)
We forgive you. ;-)
We forgive you. ;-)
Someone tell Marshall to
Someone tell Marshall to bugger off back to England. As if I could psossibly have a lower opinion of rugby players...
If he thinks its expensive
If he thinks its expensive here, tell him to stay clear of Norway then.
OH NOES! SOME FOREIGNER
OH NOES! SOME FOREIGNER CRITICISED US IN SOME WAY! HOW MEAN?! ME GO CRY NOW, LIKE A PETULANT SCHOOLGIRL.
FYi to all updated with a
FYi to all updated with a bonus Number 4 especially included to give National bank customers and IT people a sheepish grin
http://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/top-10-10-nz-mint-wof-hubbards-vw-laps...
cheers
Bernard
"When I was in the UK I
"When I was in the UK I bought a leg of imported New Zealand lamb for 17 quid [$36.60]. I bought the same thing here and it was close to $40."
That's really strange. How can the price of NZ lamb still be cheaper in UK than in NZ ? Common sense would suggest that it should be more expensive in the UK due to the cost of shipping it to the UK.
I guess you aren't in
I guess you aren't in business ;-)
The cost of transport would set a minimum price level, but the market price will be whatever the market dictates in each country.
Just as an example:
If I were selling lamb (I'm not), and it cost me $10 to 'grow' and get it to a supermarket in NZ, and $30 to get it to market in the UK, but you, in NZ were willing to pay $40 for it, then I rather suspect I would be happy to sell to you for $40, and if the best price I could get was $36 in the UK, I'd sell anything left over to them.
Just out of morbid curiousity, what would you sell to me for in NZ if I was willing to pay you $40?
Alan.
Would have to disagree Alan.
Would have to disagree Alan. The prime cuts are usually exported and we end up with the 2nd grade cuts on the domestic market. The excuse exporters use for ripping us off is that they could achieve the same price levels overseas. This is true for prime cuts. But what they refrain from telling us is that they could not achieve these prices with the 2nd grade s***t served up to us in supermarkets yet charge us prime prices.
The same goes for fruit. Look at the poor quality of the apples available in our domestic market. Yet we pay similar prices to that paid for the best stuff in Tokyo.
The evidence lies in the increasing popularity of growers markets.
Essentially, Joshi is saying
Essentially, Joshi is saying that house prices have dropped, but the mortgages haven't, which means the size of the deleveraging task is enormous.
Come on Bernard! You call this "news"? Aside from the real estate industry and the property investors, everyone has been saying this for months.
You just know that a few years ago the guy was screaming about how great property is as an investment and how rich he's getting from investing in property.
Those guys are always the last ones to figure things out and the first to claim they saw it coming all along.
How about being a little more discriminating when you select articles to republish, BH? We can already hear this kind of shite anywhere.
Anonymous Have a look at the
Anonymous
Have a look at the article
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/07/the-4-trillion-dollar-question-2/
It includes plenty of fresh detail and argument. You're right, it's not shocking news, but does ram home the enormity of the task ahead.
Also it shows that deleveraging not only has a long way to go, but is starting from a much worse place than everyone thought.
cheers
Bernard
to anonymous re leg of
to anonymous re leg of lamb
there is one subtle difference - the leg of lamb in the UK is frozen. The leg of lamb in NZ is fresh/chilled (or at least, should be for that price)
Fresh UK lamb is considerably more expensive (or, was)
Would be nice to have some
Would be nice to have some true statistics in NZ of the actual inflation rate rather than the RB's choice of what items to include so they look good.
Inflations is the politicians and RB's choice of a hidden tax, why do we even bother saving any money when the RB just prints money for nothing and expands the money supply. The politicians get the money to use and we pay the interest and money back to the RB who just printed it for nothing.
Can there be a more perfect crime than the reserve bank !?
In regard to #1 I heard a lady on talk back radio who had just been to Sydney and went to the fish markets. She could buy in Sydney NZ snapper at $18 AUD ($23 NZD) dollars, you'd be lucky to get it in NZ for $32 NZD.
Justin is correct, we are ripped of with the govt giving the two super markets a monopoly like the have. I have no idea which party gave these guys a monopoly, madness. Also the govt spending and creating inflation along with so it seems the food of NZ going overseas cheaper that here.
And we haven't seen anything yet, can't wait till GST comes in and the crazy ETS filters down to increased prices !!!!
I don't even know where to
I don't even know where to start with dissecting the stupid in this article. Actually I wont bother, except to discuss one point. Our Government didn't "give" a monopoly to the supermarkets. In fact, with two major players there cannot be, by definition, a monopoly, and certainly the Government has nothing to do with the current state of affairs.
In fact it was the executive branch of the Government which stupidly blocked a move to make the current duopoly stronger by allowing a merger with The Warehouse. All of which means nothing when you consider that the existing duopoly is fiercely competitve and margins are, for the most part, razor thin throughout most of their product lines - and certainly margins on a weighted average basis across the whole store is around 5% for most supermarkets.
@Chris Our government did
@Chris
Our government did allow the duopoly and allowed the 3rd and 4th largest at the time supermarkets to be purchased by Progressive Enterprises.
2 seconds checking could have confirmed it for you...
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=2046140
Your sadly mistaken if think a duoply does not make a monopoly, there are so many examples we have had in NZ that confirm's this.
I doubt your 5% theory hugely. You only have to go down to Turners and Growers and see the auction price of veges and then go into a super market to see the massive markup.
why no try it sometime!
@1 I have to agree that
@1 I have to agree that groceries are significantly more expensive in NZ. My grocery bill went up by quite a bit when I moved to the UK from France. Then when I moved to NZ I did a double-take the first time I went through the check-out at an NZ supermarket because it was still higher than in the UK. Unfortunately, it wasn't a mistake and my family (who make a point to buy any NZ product they can put their hands on) pay less for them, eg lamb, beef etc.
That said, there are many, many things that are way cheaper in NZ too. Eg, when I moved here from the UK, petrol over there was the equivalent of around $3/l while it was just $1/l in NZ. Used cars can be bought a lot cheaper in NZ than in France. There are also many taxes that people that just don't exist here (think CG tax, inheritance tax of 40-60%, housing tax on top ofcouncil taxetc).
@1 No GST (VAT) on food in
@1
No GST (VAT) on food in UK!
SOME food - but probably you
SOME food - but probably you are correct with respect to fresh meat.
Alan.
I was interested to read that
I was interested to read that Mrs Hubbard was forced to return $3 worth of goods when caught short while out shopping a few days ago. I would have thought that the good folk of Timaru (that have bestowed saintlike status to the Hubbard's), would have let her off or dipped into their own pockets to assist....
Peter Bills is an
Peter Bills is an international writer for Independent News and Media....so a healthy dose of free media coverage for Peter goes down better than a glass of Sav with a crayfish main. Why in the name of the wee man do we have to put up with this sort of crap from our poodle media.
He will do the same thing across the ditch...only he had better be on the move before the locals get to know what he's up to...Fatso will be waiting for Peter!
Recently returned from the
Recently returned from the UK.
Food prices still shocked me!!
cucumbers never paid more than 79p out of season, saw some in the shop the other day, and I realise its out of season, and there's a shortage, but $5.49 each !!!!!!
Pretty sure the grower is not getting anywhere near than price!!
Jeez Jason use your noodle
Jeez Jason use your noodle mate...veg out of season in the UK is trucked up from the south of Spain in massive quantities and that keeps the price down..throw in the lack of VAT on food and what the hell do you expect!...you do know that the subsidised food production in the EC is paid for with higher taxes on income and capital gains and death duties and a heap of other thieving munny grabbing ways...don't you? Did you consume any wild rabbit, or pig or Venison over there?....no....I wonder what that food would have cost. Try shopping at a farmers market in your area.....the food is much less costly...better still, grow your own you lazy git.
Not often I agree with Wally
Not often I agree with Wally but spot on, Also loved than Aunty Herald has decided as well as being the most money grubbing AB ever Justin Marshall is also an economic expert with his inane drivel
Neven
Sounds like Peter Bills has
Sounds like Peter Bills has touched a raw nerve but at least most of his gripes are discretionary items - resturant meals etc.
Just try doing a household budget for someone on the median wage - $530/week pre tax.
And remember half of us earn less than that. I can't get it to work at all allowing reasonable basic expenses. How do people manage?
Perhaps it would be a worthwhile exercise for your website eh Bernard?
doesnt Burnards affordability
doesnt Burnards affordability reports base the median NZ wage at $700ish net
Is that $530 pre tax correct , caus thats appalling
here it is After-tax
here it is
After-tax income
The median weekly take-home pay for a typical buyer was $756.30 in June, up 2.5% from the $737.65 in June 2009.
Is that the median take home pay accross the country or only for people who are in a position to buy a house
Bernard ???
Hi BBB, here is the most
Hi BBB, here is the most up-to-date stat from statisticsNZ:
Median weekly income from all sources for the June 2009 quarter:
was $538, up from $536 in the June 2008 quarter .
http://www.stats.co.nz/browse_for_stats/work_income_and_spending/Income/NZIncomeSurvey_HOTPJun09qtr.aspx
So some ($2.00/week) increase over the 12 months!
That is the reality for most of your fellow Kiwis, half of us earn less than that - this is the median pre-tax income.
So what's going on? GDP seems to go up, average wage goes up, profits and taxes go up but over half of us are getting left behind big time.
You tell me.
Wally you around? I have just
Wally you around? I have just seen a liquidation notice for Vintara Lmtd (formerly Kathy Linskey Wines 2009). Is this for real - Kathy Linskey gets the chop now as well? If true that is a real signature boutique winery down the tubes.
Dunno mate...news to
Dunno mate...news to me...debt kills in the end.
andyh - What's the economic
andyh - What's the economic situation in Blenheim/Marlborough at present?
Not very good if it is true
Not very good if it is true that wineries such as Kathy Linskey's are going to the wall! I've never seen a tasting room with so many medals about the place - some pretty good wine (actually now I come to think of it, it may make sense as one of our local supermarkets has been selling KL wine at half price last week). It was always touted as a premium product previously.
You better ask Wally though, he's in Marlborough, I am in Nelson. Things here are going through their usual winter hiatus, although retail in particular seems under the cosh. There is a stack of commercial property up for sale.
Kathy Linskey herself seemed
Kathy Linskey herself seemed to sell the vineyard in 2008
http://www.kathylynskeywines.co.nz/current-update.htm
cheers
Bernard
Vintara in liquidation since
Vintara in liquidation since November 2009
http://www.business.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/1087198
here's the insolvency documents.
http://www.business.govt.nz/companies/app/service/services/documents/1E6453BA4E3B281130D72DD27BD8D4B1
cheers
Bernard
Thanks for that Mr B. Odd
Thanks for that Mr B. Odd that the liquidation notice should pop up in todays Nelson Mail.
Yes Wally (appropriate name)
Yes Wally (appropriate name) of course I realise that there is no VAT on Food, and the EC subsidies as well as the food can be trucked up from Spain etc.
But all I was highlighting was that the general cost of living in NZ is very high, food prices are crazy!
The UK has its problems, but I still found that I was better off, had a higher standard of living, working as an accountant that in NZ, that was even after paying 700 pounds a month childcare.
Yes but what about the
Yes but what about the quality of living/lifestyle? You'd have to pay me (a lot) to get me back to the UK (life is not all about money!). And as I mentioned above, although groceries are more expensive here there are also many taxes that NZers don't have to pay and that Europeans do. NZ over the UK anytime for me. As far as I'm concerned, the upsides outweigh the downsides.
Stone me I gotta find a
Stone me I gotta find a better way to help these children...Jason....look at what you have written...you ignored the factors that kept the price of food in the uk low and homed in on the food items here that are high. Factor in the VAT and the market size and the production subsidies....gosh what happens to your cheap UK food?
And you an accountant!...what's the saying...they know the price but not the value...how true is that!
then go back
then go back
Classic response! Well done.
Classic response! Well done.
As someone who spent the
As someone who spent the first 2 months of his UK OE on minimum wage. I can tell you another reason why it seemed so cheap.
Because an enoromous underclass are being paid (back then) minimum wage 3.50 GBP to pull your pints. The second-cousin of the Curry House owner who has moved out on a family-reunion visa from Bangladesh is probably being paid even less to cook your tikka masala.
I was also shocked/suprised how much more expensive NZ had become when I returned. But in the time that I was away petrol prices increased 50%.
As to how expensive it is now? Well, It's swings and roundabouts. My house costs 50 to 75% less. My daily public transport ticket is 1/6th of the price of my daily tube ticket. Yet, my food seems about par if not more expensive.
I thought we wanted to move away from a nation of low wage earners anyway?
We are definitely being
We are definitely being gouged by the Aussi supermarket duopoly
.....and please.... what exactly is the " quality of life "that Nz'ers go on about?
Headlines today about our polluted swimming places.
Our dirty dairy farming
Poor quality housing
Shortage of Doctors
Low wages
Teenage/adult drinking problems
Collapsed finance companies
Inflated local bodies with too much power,
daily police shootouts
Some lowlife stole the earrings off a dying old lady in hospital
Rubbishy TV programs and finally our horrible kiwi accent that we have suddenly become so proud of.
Our way of life could be called unique but never "quality."
Aussie duopoly? Foodstuffs
Aussie duopoly?
Foodstuffs is an NZ co-operative.
"...our horrible kiwi accent
"...our horrible kiwi accent that we have suddenly become so proud of."
Amen.
FUSH UN CHUPS UN MULK UN SWUTSHUTS!
I LUCK TULKING LUCK A DUCKHUD!
Hee hee! Some times the
Hee hee!
Some times the accent is very thick. (Thuck?)
When the Weta guys won an Oscar for their work on Lord of the Rings, the Kiwi guy who accepted it gave a speech, and my foreign-born wife turned to me and asked in a mystified tone what he had said, even though she speaks English better than most native English-speakers I know.
The funny part was that I didn't *know* what he said! The guy made Lyn of Tawa sound like the Queen!
That was when I realised that maybe our accent needs a bit of work.
Have you actually tried to
Have you actually tried to live outside NZ (by living I mean not on holiday/OE but actually living and working in another country)? To me, NZ quality of life = among other things, it is probably one of the only places where you don't have to spend lots of time stuck in heavy traffic/standing in a packed tube among sweaty, stinky people/driving on a 4-lane-each-side motorway to get to work. After working both in Paris and Manchester, being able to bike to work every single day in Chch (by the river, on tree-lined streets for 90% of the 30mn trip) was bliss.
Shortage of doctors possibly, although I've never had an issue getting an appt with my GP and have never had to wait for more than 15mn, which is more than I can say of France where doctors feel it is their right to always make you wait in excess of 2 hours when you come to your appt. Poor quality housing - yep, can't deny that one although if you steer clear of the leaky buildings and build to today's standards you should be right.
Re-pollution, crime & drinking, it sure isn't pretty but it's hardly better elsewhere, is it? In many places you wouldn't even see an old lady's stolen earrings making the headlines. The "rubbishyTV programmes" issue is easily avoided by not having a TV (well, I do but no aerial so only used for ad breaks-free DVDs). As for the accent, wasn't the Kiwi accent voted the 2nd best liked English accent in a poll, after the BBC/British accent? I like it. It's certainly better-sounding than the Australian accent, the Ive-got-a-potato-in-my-mouth US accent or the Irish/Scottish accents (which may well be nice but since I can't ever understand what Irish/Scottish people are saying because of them, I don't like them).
Low wages, well, yes that's a sticky point... But hey, can't have everything right?!
I guess I'm a bit of a NZ fan
I guess I'm a bit of a NZ fan despite the higher grocery prices :)
Good to hear.
Good to hear.
"Low wages, well, yes that's
"Low wages, well, yes that's a sticky point... But hey, can't have everything right?!"
Not when they would rather live off government subsidies like WFF Elley, and there lies the problem with NZders! They value 'socialism' over self reliance and the dignity of a REAL wage for REAL work
Nevermind the lamb, feel
Nevermind the lamb, feel the chicken!
NZ's supermarket duopolists have got it made. Simple. Get over it, or get back up there.
Avoid supermarkets as much as
Avoid supermarkets as much as you can. Go to the butcher, the produce shop for what you can't grow, wholefoods shops for real flour, sugar etc, keep a few chooks for eggs and only go to the supermarket every fortnight. Works a treat for the budget and sanity but takes more time and planning admittedly.
I bet you bung the press on a
I bet you bung the press on a nail in the longdrop ruru...didn't know they sold fake flour and sugar! Try to time the supermarket visit for when they biff out the grub past its use by date...wait near the skip mate.
Snigger. Make that a rusty
Snigger. Make that a rusty nail Wally! Well I did exaggerate, just a teeny weeny bit: once a week for the supermarket. But everyday flour is appalling; I usually get Milmore Downs zentrofan ground wholewheat, so light I can even make a sponge cake with it!
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-pr
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/world/3936287/Gulf-rig-had-history-of-faults
"The oil drilling rig that sank in the Gulf of Mexico in April had a history of maintenance problems, the rig's chief engineer has told US investigators probing the BP Plc oil spill."
Should probably read:
"The oil drilling rig it's that sank in the Gulf of Mexico in April along with the operations of its OWNER and CLIENT VERY, VERY PROBABLY had a CULTURE problem, the rig's chief engineer has told US investigators probing the BP Plc oil spill."
http://www.flirtingwithdisaster.net/
See the case study section.
'o' rings, eh!
It's good job we don't see much in the way of CULTURE problems affecting NZ's economic development, and the financial sector, worldwide.
(Apols if that sounds pious, however, read around.)
Cheers, Les.
#7 - I don't understand why
#7 - I don't understand why more Americans don't just hand their keys back to the bank and buy a new house with a lower mortgage ... they could save a deposit in the time it take the bank to kick them out for non-payment. Then the problem belongs to the bank not he American consumer.
It'd be carnage if the same happens here, cause Kiwi's don't have the same luxury of being able to walk out on their mortgage.
Not to mention that
Not to mention that equivalent prices are still much higher and incomes far lower than those in the USA.
Of course, things are beginning to change quite a bit, now that NZ house prices are about to give us their impersonation of a kamikaze attack.
Not every state has the same
Not every state has the same laws though. California & Florida do have the "jingle mail" law, conveniently for the homeowners those were two states with large bubles IIRC.
many have Rob!
many have Rob!
Walking away in those US
Walking away in those US states that offer it is not as easy as it sounds, it still ruins the defaulters credit rating. Trying getting by in Ameica today without a credit rating.
Just curious, I was trying to
Just curious, I was trying to find out about the NOAA Thomas Jefferson research vessel in the Gulf, but the NOAA website seems to be down... http://www.noaa.gov/ Is it just me, or are other people having the seeing the same? Cheers
@toreapango random and maybe
@toreapango
random and maybe relevant,is it just me that is sick of the omnipresent anonymous?I know the search for selfknowledge is difficult but you could ask your mother who your father was.
@alan stewart random and so
@alan stewart
random and so it is. 5 - 10 pups a litter, 12 - 24 litters a year, mother any mouse has no idea who dad was. Thanks for sharing.
This blows my mind just a wee
This blows my mind just a wee bit.
When I lived in the UK 10 years ago. Petrol prices were approx 0.90 GBP, which was equal to approx NZD$2.70 at those exchange rates. Petrol prices in NZ at that time were about $0.90 per litre.
The internet tells me pretrol prices in the UK are today about 1.17 GBP, which is currently equal to approx NZD$2.50 at todays exchange rates. Petrol prices in NZ at the moment average about NZD$1.75.
This shows a few things. Ironically, rising oil prices have a much larger impact when fuel tax makes up much less of the pump price. NZ used to be ridiculously cheap. Exchange rates ......
how long did it take you to
how long did it take you to earn that 90p? bet it wasn't half as long as it took a kiwi to earn 90cents YET your 90p was worth $2.70!. Dude exchange rates are one thing, but work time required MUST be calculated also. I think, (as i found out coming home) you will find the UK was very cheap
Using the 77p price, noted
Using the 77p price, noted below as the pump price in 2000 .
It took me 3.6 minutes to earn 90c in 1999
It took me 9.24 minutes to earn 77p in 1999
Doing the same/equivalent job.
petrol price UK year 2000 was
petrol price UK year 2000 was 77p
NZ is expensive compared to
NZ is expensive compared to UK! Beer terms = http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/groceries/index.jsp?bmUID=1279612128442 or if the link won't work it states Budweiser Larger 20 X 300 ml £12 or £2 per litre. Yes £2 per litre of decent beer.
Really enjoyed the virtual
Really enjoyed the virtual shopping at Sainsburys. Thanks for the link DC Mmmmm great memories of their pecan and maple pastries 50p !!!!
Lidl is the place though. Sooo cheap and all good well labelled european food
with few additives.
Man Bernard, You top 10 just
Man Bernard, You top 10 just gets better and better! or is that worse and worse?
Justin is right, when i
Justin is right, when i returned from the UK i could not believe what people here were willing to accept for food prices when you found out how much they earned and how long it would take to earn it on their $12 an hour wage. Rip-off NZ big time! And then you look at how much NZdrs were paying for a $300 thou house that looks like a garden shed! LOL, man, what mugs
I wonder what American's
I wonder what American's think of us and our stupid over priced ultra low quality housing market. Any US readers out there?
Back on the old site, there
Back on the old site, there was a very interesting post by an American which was as enlightening as it was uncomplimentary. Suffice it to say that the average Kiwi's fantasy about 'Godzone' being the dream destination of everyone else on Earth may be a trifle flimsy.
RE number 6. Just when I
RE number 6. Just when I think the Chinese have everything planned out to the nth degree for the rest of time, I read something which makes me wonder whether they've planned anything at all.
It really is a fascinating country.