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The surge in visitors from China impresses Bernard Hickey and he calls for us to 're-tool' our tourism efforts to welcome them. You ready for Chinese street signs?
By Bernard Hickey
Nihao. Huan ying, huan ying!
This is a phrase every New Zealander and certainly every New Zealand tourism business should commit to memory.
It is Chinese for hello and a very sincere welcome.
It's also a phrase that should be built into their business plans. Unfortunately, for most tourism businesses, it's not and it's something we need to do quickly.
The growth in Chinese tourism to New Zealand in the last year is stunning, thanks largely to the beginning of daily flights by China Southern from Guangzhou in the south of China.
Short term visitor arrivals have risen 39.2% to 191,488 in the year to the end of October.
That made China the third largest contributor of tourists to New Zealand after Australia and Britain, and ahead of America.
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Chinese tourism is forecast by NZIER to surpass British tourism next year and more than double by 2018.
The trouble for New Zealand is Chinese tourists currently spend much less per night and spend fewer nights here than British, German or American tourists. About two thirds travel in tour groups run by Chinese companies that visit Chinese owned stores.
NZIER also forecast the number of British, German and American tourists to fall over the next 6 years because of their weak economies and the strong New Zealand dollar.
Total spending from these traditional markets is forecast to fall from around NZ$2 billion a year in 2005 to almost NZ$1 billion by 2018. Chinese spending, meanwhile, is expected to rise to NZ$680 million from NZ$220 million over the same period.
That's great, but it obviously doesn't make up for the fall in tourism from traditional markets.
New Zealand needs to retool its tourism sector over the next decade in the same way it retooled its farming industry over the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s after Britain joined the European Union.
The work has started, but the sense of urgency or national awareness is nowhere near the same level that New Zealand had in the early 1970s as Britain joined the EU.
Auckland Airport and the Tourism Industry Association put out an excellent paper in late September about the need for a change in thinking on the China market. Just last week Auckland Airport and Tourism New Zealand signed a memorandum of understanding with China Southern to improve links. It was signed during a special trip to New Zealand by China Southern's executive team and 250 Chinese travel agents on one of its Airbus 380s.
New Zealand's tourism sector needs to retool the way it operates to embrace Chinese visitors and provide the sort of high value, high excitement, luxury travel experiences that are on offer to British, American and German tourists.
Obtaining visas for independent travellers from China will have to be easier.
Signs and public announcements will have to be in Chinese as well as English.
Campervans will need to include instructions in Chinese.
Staff in restaurants, duty free stores and hotels will have to learn Chinese.
Bungee operators will have to explain in Chinese how to jump.
I've said it before, but why isn't New Zealand making Chinese its third language and teaching it much more widely in schools? We now have a major base of Chinese speakers in Auckland to help us do that.
Where's the National strategy to retool our economy? A lot more needs to be done.
Auckland Airport got the ball rolling this week. It started including Chinese in its public announcements to departing traveling travelers about the need to fill out in their departure forms and pack their liquids, gels and aerosols in a separate bag.
Perhaps, collectively, New Zealand needs to learn how to say: "Nihao Huanying huanying" as well as "Haere Ra and thanks for the dough."
-----------------------------------------------------------------
This article first appeared in the Herald on Sunday. It is used here with permission.
47 Comments
They arrive on Chinese owned
They arrive on Chinese owned and operated airlines , and two thirds travel in Chinese tour groups and visit Chinese run stores ? ....... so what positive contribution are these people making , Bernard ..... show me the munny !!!
....... we should ban Chinese from visiting NZ , because they're crowding out our established tourism markets , the Brits , Ozzies , Yanks & Japanese .
Gee whizz Bernard , in Queenstown we put up dual signs with Japanese written on them , 'cos Japan was the new great superpower ....... back in the 1980's .......and we assumed they'd be our financial lifeline to the prosperous emerging markets of Asia ...
.. and you don't think that the modern China economic miracle is going to go the same way as the resurgent Japanese economy went , roaring over the fiscal cliff ?
so what positive contribution
so what positive contribution are these people making , Bernard ..... show me the munny !!!
Tourism Industry Association chief executive Martin Snedden said China was "booting ahead" month after month, with state forecasts suggesting visitors could double in five years or so.
"The challenge with China is not about numbers but value," he said, to get visitors to stay longer and spend more.
About 70 per cent of Chinese visitors come to New Zealand for a three-day shopping trip after visiting Australia. But there were "strong restrictions" where visitors could shop on those tours.
"The shopping trips are controlled by Chinese operators based in China or Australia . . . and the bulk of the profits [as much as half] from these trips is retained offshore," Snedden said.
The tourism sector was trying to give "viable alternatives" to those shopping trips.
"They don't get the best experience . . . and the value from them is not retained in New Zealand," Snedden said. "So the numbers look good but the value is nowhere near as good as it should be." Read article
I guess the Chinese cleaning up in Australia come here for a break and enjoy the existing western style attractions more suited to improving the skills required to drive high powered German cars.
.... remember all those years
.... remember all those years ago , when the statistics on Japanese tourism to NZ was going gangbusters , and the Minister of Transport joined the general consensus of tweety birds , cooing about our new found wealth .... and he even suggested we should assist those tourists by changing which side of the road we drive on ..... to accommodate them , our new Japanese tourists of gold , frankensense and d'uh .......
'Cos Maurice Williamson was too thick to realise that the Japanese drive on the left , as we do , anyway ......
....... nyuk , nyuck , nyaaaaaaaaaaah ! ... only a politician could be such a schmuck ... well , until someone twaddled into view with the article printed up above .... Merry Christmas Bernard !
tourism is such a fragile
tourism is such a fragile thing, anyone involved in Queenstown knows it is as random as the snow, economics of overseas markets and it is all summed up when you consider the great big growth area is currently aussie tour groups coming for golf, only for a few months of the year mind you.
The difference between our
The difference between our 'normal' tourists...ockers poms and the like...and 'the little red book wavers' is something Tweak and Fiddle ought to know about, but they won't.....Poms Ockers and the like are so easily manipulated by their respective idiot govts...not, while the Chinese would never abandon NZ as a tourist destination just because their Beijing bosses told em to...doh..
So if Tweak and Fiddle ever bother to think...they might ...just maybe....come to realise their policies are soon to be dictated to them by a corrupt sod in Beijing...It will be a case of 'do as we say' or the tourist tap will be turned off..100% off.
yes, the contrast between a
yes, the contrast between a relationship and a dependency....
Agree with others here that
Agree with others here that China offers limited real opportunity, for reasons others have articulated the Chinese tourists don't actually spend much in the local economy. Looking at the big tourist numbers is rather misleading
Getting that to change would be a herculean effort. Over time the Japs moved away from tours to independent travel, somewhat. Elderly Japs still tend to visit Aus/ NZ on tours. Younger Japs tend to prioritise Europe,Asia, Aus and USA over NZ
Nz should keep on focussing on Aus. Got so many workmates who have recently been or are going soon. All have loved NZ. Continued concerted effort on Aus will get more value than China
Hard to take your comment
Hard to take your comment seriously amidst the WWII era racial epithets. Shame on you.
Is that really any worse than
Is that really any worse than say Poms or Yanks? Is it not about context?
And yet the ignorance you
And yet the ignorance you choose because the presentation of the data is not to your taste....very telling for a smoky. Afterall "japs" is so much of racial epithet compared to actual racial insults (which would upset David should I post them in public), that obviously the data MUST wrong...
Definitely ban the Chinese
Definitely ban the Chinese from coming to NZL!!! Bring back the poll tax on Chinese immigrants during the 19th and early 20th centuries!!!~
They have greased the palms
They have greased the palms with silver to ensure a smooth passage to our fair land.
That is how some benefitted.....
It is a new Trickle up theory.....our Dear Leaders and their Dear Leaders... are working on.
I think the rate will be 1.9% per annum..compounded.....but that may change.....as inflation, exchange rates.........and other factors............BITE.
But it is a numbers game. Just a little orf the top, is a large amount, without even a little grafting to do.....
But soapy water may be necessary, at some levels.
If ya get my drift.
.....sounds like a loss
.....sounds like a loss Leader..!!
How do we know that these
How do we know that these Chinese tourists aren't hard line pinko party members who are actually highly qaulified engineers etc looking for suitable spots in NZ from where to launch an invasion of NZ.
An airport on Crafar farms land looks a good start.
why waste munitons and
why waste munitons and arms?
for the price of building and arming such an invasion force, they can just buy most of the country from the government - especially after providing a system of cheap chinese loans to struggling natives.
I happened to be in Paihia
I happened to be in Paihia when there was a cruise ship in the Bay of Islands earlier in the year.
The stall holders flogging their nick nacks on the villiage green where very quiet - the Asian tourists were swarming over the rocks at each end of the beach stripping everything remotely edible - mussels, periwinkles, whatever. True story. A lot of the locals were pretty pissed off.
These were, presumeably, wealthy and, certainly well dressed tourists but, apart from what they spend with their Asian owned operators and businesses here, what is the net benefit for us?
Yes, Look at "coastwatch"
Yes, Look at "coastwatch" where 50% of the pillagers apprehended by the Ministry of Fisheries are NOT locals or Maori, more like asian restaurant proprietors gathering their FREE supplies.
Witnessed exactly that race
Witnessed exactly that race type numbering ~8 in both the bay preceding and mine in Eastbourne, at low tide, yesterday.
Surely offender information
Surely offender information is collected by MAF? Be interesting to confirm these observations.
Still collecting GST,
Still collecting GST, PAYE.....etc. The chinese businesses are still buying power, phone...paying rates.
What to the British tourists do? often stay with relatives...hire a camper van for 2 months....hardly big spenders....but then at least they are really seeing NZ.
I would suggest that this is the quality of the tourists, and a mind set. I mean if you went to spain you would see the typical working class pom who wants british beer and fish'n chips just like home. They would also be minded I suspect by party ppl.....
I was kind of gob smacked last year when I came across a bunch of chinese standing in front of what I would describe as a crappy block of concrete flats taking it in turns to get their picture taken. Those flats would be fairly similar to chinese flats...maybe to show the ppl at home that NZers are no better off? dunno wierd.
regards
Are you sure about them
Are you sure about them paying their taxes. They seem to like cash buisness's, pay under the minimum wages, under the table. Purchases transacted back in China. It would be interesting to see just how much tax avoidance goes on in that quarter.
As others have noted the net benefit of these tourists is probably neglible and the impost on the nation is not worth it. In the best of circumstances Tourisim is a pretty low grade enterprise and offers only very low grade, low skill and meanial employment. I suppose positions in the Chow brothers new Auckland establishment may pay a bit more.
and what about your "tax
and what about your "tax evasion"? Nice little tax free sellup when you retire? You know there is no difference in my eyes.
IRD will be interested in such goings on in the chinese importes IMHO if its there. Sure they can evade....however there is little evidence of this in the courts that I know of....show us some.
Tourism is indeed a low pay sector and its going to get tougher....
regards
Steven About 2 weeks ago I
Steven
About 2 weeks ago I put up a link which differentiated between resident and non-resident taxpayers. What it boiled down to is this. If the tour operators are registered in new zealand as new zealand domiciled businesses they will be subject to IRD oversight, and will pay tax. If they are NOT, then their tax liability is NIL. Yes, they will pay Fuel Excise on internal travel, consuming fuel, and GST on local consumables, ie restuarant meals etc etc. Don't know about the PAYE and GST if they are not nz operations. These are very shrewd people, and the way they ring-fence their operations is evidence of that.
What is to stop these people
What is to stop these people running Chineese Eftpos terminals in NZ over the internet. Try and track those transactions down.
Retired. You are right and
Retired. You are right and you are wrong. I have always taken a pride in paying my taxes and it may surprise you that there are still some individuals and companies that do. Apart from the matters of honour and pride (how often do you hear those terms these days), there is a trap in running matters to minimise tax rather than maximize income. Often people get themselves into all sorts of silly situations and take their attention away from the most important matters when trying to evade tax.
Right in that we do not have a capital gains tax and while I have benefitted I think that this is very detrimental to the whole country and have agitated accordingly.
Maybe chat to schools as they
Maybe chat to schools as they are still offering japanese and no chinese. In fact there has been no interest what so ever in our area in offering Mandarin but most schools have a japanese teacher/lesson.
German also, hardly a language for us IMHO. For asia though Mandarin makes huge sense as there is usually a large % of ppl of chinese descent all over.....
Re-toolng has to start there. NB...wasnt Japanese the thing some years back? where is Japan these days on the radar?
regards
"where is Japan these
"where is Japan these days?"
Kyle Bass:
in the last 2 months we believe Japan has crossed that proverbial Rubicon. We think that you've seen 20 years of conjecture regarding Japan's eventual demise. And now we see a point where, in the last couple months what you see is a continued deterioration in their balance of trade. It's actually running at about negative $100 billion or close to 10 trillion Yen. And we think given this resurgence of Chinese nationalism over the Senkaku crisis [disputed islands], you're going to see that move another 1.5 to 2 percent or another $100 billion. Put that in perspective. What that means is we could see full current account negativity in Japan in October. That's something nobody is ready for.
Think about it. You have a secular decline in the population, you have a balance of trade that is literally being rewritten and falling off a cliff, and their GDP is now tracking negative 3.5 or 4 percent.
So what has to happen in Japan. Now their backs are against the wall. They have a full crisis, and they absolutely have to change the manner in which they deal with their currency. And so we think over the last couple of months they have crossed the final Rubicon that turns the whole situation around and weakens the Yen from a currency perspective. Then you are going to start to see, we think, in the next 12-18 months a move in their rates.
Basically Japan is entering its final checkmate phase of the game.
Read more at http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2012/12/kyle-bass-on-end-of-debt-supercycle.html#xrsH7ViQmmq1zZB7.99
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=t7Si3XTl6zQ
Japan sat there for 20+years
Japan sat there for 20+years and didnt fix its problems of bad banks, its limped along slowly declining while the "outside" world did quite well. Now the outside world is doing a Japan and Japan's GDP decline is 4% as a result. That should be telling ppl that Japan is going to do worse over time let alone everyone else.
What applies to Japan also applies to the developed world of course...maybe just a few years behind....
regards
In Japan (and most Oriental
In Japan (and most Oriental cultures) you don't admit to a fault - it makes you and your superiors look bad.
You put people in place under you, to patch the problem, quietly and without causing embarassment. Thus a failing quality or sales level, will often be met with "expansion" or "renovation" enhancements in the hope that the new people can fix whatevers wrong. It is the height of bad manners to accuse anyone of failure, and barely acceptable when solid material proof is unavoidable, and the deed of removal must be done.
Passing such judgement is culturally gauche, as it is becoming in NZ, Scandanavia and the US (and other Socialist countries). And like Japan, there's promise of a band-aid, or a bigger loan to "fix" the embarrasment rather than the more colonial business-like mentality of fix-what's-broke
A Chinese tour guide told me
A Chinese tour guide told me that some of the Chinese drivers sit in the motels in Rotorua and brag about how much they ripped "those people off". Operators need to counter that by displaying prices etc in Mandarin.
............
What we need is an international language, a combined effort reflecting all the worlds populations. It's an idea that makes sence but for the power of vested interests and elites: a few billion people who would like to be able to communicate versus elite language experts who love and treasure a particular langauge.
Nah...Mexican style.....And
Nah...Mexican style.....And my last word on the subject.
Lets us all....Weeweechu.....The Mexican wei.
It's a romantic full moon, when Pedro said, "Hey, mamacita, let's do Weeweechu."
Oh no, not now, let's look at the moon!" said Rosita.
Oh, c'mon baby, let's you and I do Weeweechu. I love you and it's the perfect time," Pedro begged.
"But I wanna just hold your hand and watch the moon." replied Rosita.
Please, corazoncito, just once, do Weeweechu with me."
Rosita looked at Pedro and said, "OK, one time, we'll do Weeweechu."
Pedro grabbed his guitar and they both sang.....
"Weeweechu a Merry Christmas,
Weeweechu a Merry Christmas,
Weeweechu a Merry Christmas,
and a Happy New Year."
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!
Online, English has become a
Online, English has become a common language for users from around the world. In the process, the language itself is changing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20332763
Users of Facebook already socialise in a number of different "Englishes" including Indian English, or Hinglish, Spanglish (Spanish English) and Konglish (Korean English). While these variations have long existed within individual cultures, they're now expanding and comingling online.
Some words are adaptations of traditional English: In Singlish, or Singaporean English, "blur" means "confused" or "slow": "She came into the conversation late and was blur as a result."
Others combine English words to make something new. In Konglish, "skinship" means intimate physical contact: handholding, touching, caressing.
Yes Bernard, we even have Maoglish (Maori English) words like "Bro" and "Cuz" or hadn't you noticed?
It would have been nice to
It would have been nice to have seen some real data on tourism.
Is it really that profitable? Looking back over the years
How much money has come into the country, from tourism, in total, from all countries each year.
Subtract how much NZers spend overseas on their trips (Government and bureaucrats in particular).
Subtract the tourism industry and all that overseas advertising.
Subtract money to Warner Bro to promote NZ
Subtract all that borrowed money to have the Rugby World cup.
As well as all these things what about councils.
Millions of dollars to have V8 car races, Flower shows, Wearable arts and so on. How much do councils spend?
Then there's cycle tracks and much, much more
I think that at the end of the day all we end up with is jobs and overseas trips for the boys and a pile of low paid jobs for the rest.
Another interesting thing,
Another interesting thing, The Chinese version of the auckland property press is now available on every china southern flight. They are able to browse the properties before they even arrive. Soon enough there will be real estate agents on the flight signing deals....
Two things they are interested in the most, casino, properties.
I don't mind tourist comming
I don't mind tourist comming here but not at our expence.
Take border security, the government is cutting back, because WE can't aford it. It is them that are trying to bring in food and drugs, not us, so why should we subsidise their holliday?
Every plane that lands at an airport from overseas should pay a landing fee, not for airport profits only, but it should cover the full cost of border security. Even if that means tens of thousands of dollars per plane. We should neither subsidise their holliday, as Bernard and John key want, nor allow our border security to be run down just to please the tourists. Especially bio-security and the risk to our farming.
The politicians (or more
The politicians (or more importantly their bureaucratic underlings) like to spend every dollar twice, and pretend than any spending is "income".
eg border security costs reduce tourism. Therefore reduce the price of border security, put it in taxes instead. because more tourists MUST mean more people spending in NZ (income x 1). and of course they'll tell their friends (==value of advertising, income x2), and they'll travel to NZ (thus making us a higher priority flight lane == cost reduction due volume, increased popularity, more incentive for other airlines to use NZ, income x3,4,5). That means more people will use border security, this reduces the "per unit" cost, (those cost savings are same as income, x 6). They'll need more stuff and visits to impress their friends who have also been to NZ so MUST spend more than the others (income x 7). All these increases in people will mean more people get employed (income x 8), and that's just on the front line, as there will also be support industry increases (income x 9), and these people must all pay more taxes which will be invested back into NZ (income x 10 !)
See! so if we cut the cost of border security we'll all be rolling the income!!! Of course, if you're a real business person, you'll know you can only spend each dollar once, at a time, and each dollar spent represents siginificant overheads to earn. And you'll also know that budgeting a project on 10 times it's real profitability is likely to end in tears.
And you'd also so know that, if you're actually operating at a loss, you will lose money fast. reduce the price to increase business and you'll actually lose faster, not magickally watch the lies erase the real costs (for those who haven't worked in cash flow management, the first glaring sign of failure is when one needs to borrow to cover operational items - its a sign that real costs are overtaking real income).
Haha what a news item on TV
Haha what a news item on TV 2nite; it appears a chinese tour operator dropped 20 of his/her paying tourists into the Auck City mission Xmas lunch. Sums it all up perfectly I say! A real taste of the tourism 'culture' perhaps?
From the Boston Globe: "At
From the Boston Globe:
"At once, we are swallowed by a primeval forest. Everywhere, ferns unfold like alien seedpods. Huge fungi climb up rotting trunks. We hear the trickle of water and the cries of birds.
At the summit, we eat our packed lunch looking out over the mountains of Fiordland. A South Island robin hops up, as if to demonstrate the fearlessness of New Zealand birdlife, and sits watching us from within arm's reach.
That evening, I meet Julia Wolfrum, a nurse from Hamburg, in the campsite kitchen. She has just completed the Kepler Trail, one of New Zealand's Great Walks, a set of government-maintained hiking trails in the country.
"The isolation and silence are magic," Wolfrum says. "When you're hiking, all alone, and it's getting dark, you imagine things. It's like a fairy tale sometimes. The nature makes you feel like a child again."
Up the road in Queenstown, nature is in full flight.
Queenstown advertises itself as "The Adventure Capital of the World," where you can bungy jump, heli-ski, jet-boat, or sky-dive. The confines of the modest town can no longer accommodate the throng of thrill-seekers. Soaring mountains still fringe the lake, but condos are creeping along the shore, a snake of traffic clogs the road into town, and Louis Vuitton has set up shop along with Global Culture, a clothes store.
If your idea of a holiday is a seething mass of cars and people, topped off by a cacophony of helicopters, Queenstown may be for you. Otherwise, it serves only as a warning of the perils of overdevelopment.
"Queenstown used to be nice, but it's a mess, now," Verduyn says, as we continue our trip down the Upper Clutha. "We don't want to get like that."
He points out a bunker-like private dwelling atop a bluff, and shakes his head.
"It was a disaster to put that building in there," he says. "People from all over the world are coming here seeking a wilderness, a sanctuary. The worst-case scenario is that we damage the environment, which brings people to New Zealand in the first place."
New Zealand at a Crossroads
Allthough if you're from some overcrowded hell-hole you'll be right at home.
http://www.slideshare.net/geographyalltheway/ib-geography-globalization-...
In Bhutan you pay a royalty
In Bhutan you pay a royalty to enjoy the country.
Reading the comments on this
Reading the comments on this "opinion" makes me think that this site has really gone to the dogs. It seems that some of middle NZ still wearing socks and sandals mentally.
Reading the comments on this
Reading the comments on this "opinion" makes me think that this site has really gone to the dogs. It seems that some of middle NZ still wearing socks and sandals mentally.
Some of us actually like OUR
Some of us actually like OUR original cultural, socks, sandals, lack of theives and living in your nextdoorneighbours pocket, being able to go to a beach and not share it with 4,000 other bathers, armed police on every corner. Creativity, No8 wire, Barbies (without the shrimp) and where 5 others cars visible on the road is considered heavy traffic. Back when not every knockoff shop was trying to sell Maori culture for a profit (outside of Rotovegas). And a bloke could work for a living.
This BS ratrace you want... go somewhere else and get it. Go to Greece, or get a ground floor opportunity in New York, go hang in Hong Kong or gay Paris.
I fyou don't like the "socks and sandals" deal, please leave - you'll make more than one set of people happy doing so. In fact take some of our leading politicians with you, and we'd estatic.
To recap: Some of us like our culture, if you don't, then "go away quickly". It just makes sense....
jeepers creepers JC ... socks
jeepers creepers JC ... socks and sandals ? ... that has never ever been a descriptor of our No 8 character .. gumboots .. yes ... or nippers with bare feet with callouses on the soles 3 mm thick .. walk across scoria and along gravel roads .. no trouble .. but socks? where on this planet did you come from? certainly not from new zealand .. these blow-ins soon show themselves don't they ..
All I can say is that it
All I can say is that it would be a circus show of stupidity for NZ tourism industries if they do not understand why and how to educate and influence their single biggest source of potential customers in next 10 to 30 years.
Depends on what they want.
Depends on what they want. Education and adapting to the needs is one thing, but where do you draw the line? When do we end up with a pacific island servant population, a bunch of peasants whose only culture and living is to serve to the rich tourist - the only "culture" is what can be sold to a gawker.
I know for most people, especially petty minded NZ'ers; they worship the dollar. Their elected leaders are the high priests of the profiteering and the debt scam, all sown up like the religious castes of old with their tithes and pay-for-portents-or-else doctrines.
But someday they're going to wake up and find their lives hollow, sold for consumption to some idle rich kid for a moments distraction, or taken over by more efficient hustlers on their own game. Like the First Peoples of the US, or the Maori. NZer's are going to end up in a sea of immigrants like in Netherlands or many other European cities, no culture, no value of life, just the hustle and next scam, and "don't look past the curtain".
These people probably come to NZ because there's something clean and fresh here that isn't at home. I think over-commercialising it won't help somehow.....
WAKE UP ! .......WAKE UP
WAKE UP ! .......WAKE UP !..........NEW ZEALAND ....THE THIN EDGE OF THE WEDGE .........INFILTRATION by STELTH
No wonder NZ retail is toast
No wonder NZ retail is toast the Chinese don't spend very much as they can get most of it at home for half the price before its shipped here.