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Exclusive: NZ’s biggest dairy farmer allows calves to starve to death (Update 6)
September 28th, 2009
By Bernard Hickey
New Zealand’s biggest privately held dairying operation allowed dozens of calves on one of its massive farms on North Island’s central plateau to slowly dehydrate to death earlier this month, triggering a MAF investigation but no prosecution. (Updated with responses from Agriculture Minister David Carter, including him wanting Crafars out of the industry and criticising Fonterra at bottom of article)
The following video below obtained by www.interest.co.nz shows dozens of calves starving and near death at Crafar Farms’ Benneydale dairy farm between Tokoroa and Te Kuiti earlier this month (map link below).
Poor management and the pressures of massive debts obtained during rapid expansion meant this farm was so poorly managed that none of the staff trained the calves to drink milk, allowing them to die of dehydration in a muddy pen even though their trough was often full.
MAF’s inspectors were called in to this farm and others in the Crafar Farms group many times in recent years, yet this and others like it were allowed to keep operating.
Crafar Farms, which originally owned one family farm, grew over a period of a decade to have 20,000 milking cows, 10,000 other stock, 200 staff and around NZ$200 million of debt with Westpac, Rabobank and PGG Wrightson Finance.
Crafar Farms has been prosecuted several times for releasing effluent into waterways and for non-compliance with environmental rules. It was fined NZ$90,000 last month by the Hamilton District Court due to a “systemic failure” of a problem-plagued effluent system, the Waikato Times reported.
Shortly after the video above was taken MAF inspectors visited the property and destroyed many of the calves. Yet MAF told farm owner Allan Crafar this was just a management issue and not worthy of prosecution. MAF has confirmed to interest.co.nz it visited the farm near Benneydale (map below) on September 7 and slaughtered many calves. It said it was still considering the matter.
Interest.co.nz understands that MAF gave advance warning to Crafar Farms that it would be visiting the 1,800 cow farm, prompting an impromptu slaughtering of those calves closest to death by workers who blugeoned them to death with hammers or slit their throats.
Farm owner Allan Crafar confirmed the incident in a 45 minute interview with interest.co.nz, but said he would never knowingly allow his cows or calves to suffer. A long-time employee, Sam Webb, was now managing the farm, Crafar said. The farm manager on the Benneydale farm at the time of the neglect broke both legs in a tractor accident on the day the MAF inspector arrived and has not worked since.
‘Under pressure’
“We’re under a lot of pressure,” Crafar said when asked why the calves had been neglected. Crafar Farms’ banks have told the group to sell its farms to repay its debts.
“I do not condone calves being treated badly,” he said, adding he cared more for his cows and calves than many humans. The MAF inspector who investigated had decided not to prosecute as it was a ‘management’ issue, Crafar said.
“They’ve (MAF) told us there won’t be more action on this,” he said, commenting that the MAF inspector “did a bloody good job” in shooting the remaining calves that were near death.
“I’d much rather shoot a human than a calf.”
Crafar was on the Fonterra Shareholders Council for 6 years until he was asked to leave in March 2007, although Fonterra has continued to allow Crafar to supply it with more than half of one percent of Fonterra’s total output.
“They kicked me off because I kept telling the truth,” Crafar said, adding his strong views about increasingly stringent environmental laws and “district communists” were unpalatable for Fonterra.
Incident on farm
After interest.co.nz obtained the video, producer Bryan Spondre and I visited the farm where the calves had been kept to find out more. When we drove up next to the calf shed we were confronted by farm manager Sam Webb. He told us to: “Get the f**k off this property. You have no right to be here.”
Bryan started taking photographs of the shed and Sam Webb manhandled him back into our car before swearing abuse and grabbing at Bryan’s camera.
“I’ll take both of you bastards out,” he yelled.
Webb then punched Bryan through the open window of the car door. The punch was so hard it dislodged Bryan’s contact lens. We drove off and the picture published to the left shows Webb yelling at us as we left: “F**k off you c**ts.”
Crafar told interest.co.nz he had reported our visit to the Police as trespassing. “He should have hit you harder really,” Crafar said in a rambling conversation in which he accused environmentalists, politicians, Fonterra, banks and others of conspiring to bring down Crafar Farms and the dairy industry.
“It’s a civil war here. It’s a financial and media war which is just taking out the most productive New Zealanders,” he said.
‘They don’t get enough of me’
Crafar disagreed that his farming group had grown too big, too fast and had taken on too much debt.
Crafar said management problems could have been rectified if he had been able to talk to managers and workers at the farms more often.
“My problem is that I don’t get out among the farms often enough,” he said.
“They don’t get enough of me,” he said.
Crafar detailed how he had just spent the last 36 hours driving between farms in Napier, Norsewood and the central plateau visiting the farms and advising managers and workers. He complained that yesterday there were only 23 hours in the day because of daylight saving, which had robbed him of one hour for work.
“I’ve been 24/7 for 56 years,” he said.
Crafar said the 2006 incident at Te Pohue incident had arisen because he had been depressed and had not visited the farm frequently enough. ”It was a management problem on that farm. I go through depression pretty often in this job.”
‘Don’t run that video’
Crafar asked interest.co.nz not to broadcast the video because it would damage the country’s image.
“I’m already dead. Don’t run it because all that is going to do is hurt the our image,” he said, referring to the image of New Zealand’s dairy industry overseas.
Questions for many
Crafar Farms is now trying to sell its farms because it cannot service its debts, which are now worth more than the land. Crafar has previously confirmed that a Chinese company was considering buying the group whole, we have reported previously. The Crafar family, including Allan in the middle in green, is pictured here in front of one of their bulldozers used to convert forest land into dairy land.
There are many questions arising from this case for the authorites. They include:
- Why did MAF allow this farm to continue operating despite repeated warnings? MAF had not responded to our questions about its performance, its staffing levels and its history six days after our inquiry.
- Why has MAF not prosecuted Crafar Farms for animal neglect in this case?
- Why did Fonterra continue to accept milk from Crafar farms despite dirty dairying prosecutions and industry talk about bad management?
- Why was Allan Crafar allowed to stay on Fonterra’s most senior representative body for 6 years?
- What controls were in place at Westpac, Rabobank and PGG Wrightson Finance to investigate the financial and environmental sustainability of this farming operation? Crafar Farms is New Zealand’s biggest privately-owned dairying group and produces 0.5% of Fonterra’s total output.
- How can New Zealand continue to advertise itself as 100% pure after the dairying boom has created so many factory farms that poison the land and harm animals?
MAF responds
Here are the full MAF responses to my questions. The response was received after our article was first published.
1. Will MAF prosecute Crafar Farms over the most recent incident concerning malnourished calves that had to be put down?
While the on farm activities into this matter have been completed, the investigation reporting is not yet complete and ultimate decisions are yet to be made which means we are not in a position where we can say what the outcome may be.
We have the role of mitigating pain and suffering of animals while balancing potential criminal liability and the most important issue with any animal welfare investigation is the animals. They are the number one priority and assessment of criminal liability comes later.2. Has MAF investigated and/or prosecuted Crafar Farms over other incidents of animal mistreatment? If so, how many investigations or prosecutions were made and what were the outcomes?
This information has been requested as part of your OIA request and is currently being collated. It will be processed and provided to you once complete.
3. Has MAF considered ordering the Crafar Farm in question to cease operations?
No. This would have huge ramifications and management implications for the entire herd. This most recent incident relates to calves, not the farm.
4. How many dedicated investigators does MAF have to investigate animal welfare on farms in New Zealand?
MAF is currently resourced for five animal welfare inspectors. Other part time assistance is utilised as required.
5. Does MAF have enough resources to investigate and prosecute instances of animal mistreatment, particularly on these massive new dairy conversions?
MAF has to prioritise the distribution of its resources to highest priority incidents, while maintaining our proactive campaigns.
Dairy Industry body Dairy NZ later commented on this article and a similar piece broadcast on TVNZ’s Closeup. It said there was no excuse for ill-treating animals.
“Poor management practices are not acceptable. The industry has been working in this area since the late 1980s. We’ve taken an extremely proactive approach in communicating best practice guidelines to farmers, via our consulting officers, the dairy companies, the processing companies, the transport companies and the media. New Zealand’s standards are based on the Animal Welfare Act and our Welfare Code documents and are internationally regarded as world-class,” says Dr Tim Mackle, DairyNZ Chief Executive.
“While we await the outcome of the MAF investigation into the Benneydale farm, DairyNZ would not stand in support of any farmer found to have breached animal welfare standards. It’s bad for the animals, farmers, the industry, and for our country’s image.”
Dr Mackle says the fact a local farmer came forward and asked MAF to look into the conditions on the property is a good demonstration of the farming community’s high awareness of animal welfare stands.
Questions for Fonterra plus some responses
I sent the following questions to Fonterra on Monday evening. It responded on Tuesday afternoon. Here are the full answers.
1. Did Fonterra know or suspect any animal neglect in the Crafar Farms group?No responsible farmer would sanction the behaviour that is alleged. Regardless of difficulties on farm, there is ample help available through Dairy NZ and Federated Farmers when animal welfare or other problems arise on farm. That help should be sought whenever a farmer has issues with animal welfare. Fonterra fully supports the actions taken by MAF and its ongoing investigation.We were advised by MAF of this incident on Friday. That was the first indication received of the alleged animal neglect.2. Why was Allan Crafar ‘kicked off’ the Fonterra Shareholders Council in 2007?Allan Crafar made the decision to retire from the council in 2007
3. Why has Fonterra continued to collect Crafar’s milk knowing of his dirty dairying and his 2006 animal neglect convictions?
Rules governing farming activities and their impact on the environment are laid down under the Resource Management Act and in various regional plans. Policing them is the role of regional councils. Animal welfare is policed and enforced by MAF. In both areas, councils and MAF pursue court actions when farmers flout the law.
Calls for Fonterra to refuse to collect milk are effectively calls for Fonterra to be police, judge, jury and jailer. They are calls to re-prosecute any shareholder who has already been convicted and punished.
Fonterra will refuse to collect milk if any shareholder takes no remedial action after the courts have entered a prosecution. The key point here is “no remedial action”.
There was a prosecution of a Crafar employee in 2006. Remedial action was taken by the Crafar group. Extensive environmental remedial work has also been undertaken at Crafar properties. Fonterra currently has no grounds to create a further environmental and animal welfare issue by refusing to collect milk when cows are in peak production. If the facts of this case are proven, a prosecution follows and there is no remedial action taken, then Fonterra can refuse to collect milk.
In summary, Fonterra is not the appropriate body to punish people for environmental or animal welfare issues. We have no right to take action until the proper authorities have taken action. There are proper authorities for this. However, where authorities require action to be taken and this is not done, Fonterra will then refuse to collect milk.
4. Has Fonterra ever considered not collecting the Crafar’s milk or demanding they relinquish ownership/management of those farms?Fonterra has considered non-collection. That sanction was not justified given the Crafars had taken remedial action following prosecutions.
Fonterra cannot demand shareholders sell farms or direct business decisions made by shareholders as the business owners.
5. What is Fonterra’s response to the Crafar farms video shown on our site today?Those pictures were absolutely unacceptable. We speak overwhelmingly for Fonterra’s many thousands of farmer suppliers who would be equally appalled by such scenes. If they are a fair presentation of what occurred, then the authorities must mount a full investigation to establish the facts. We understand that the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry is investigating the alleged mistreatment of bobby calves and we must await the outcome of that investigation. MAF is the proper authority to be dealing with this.
If a prosecution is taken and the case proven then Fonterra has its own penalties and sanctions including, if remedial action is not taken, refusal to collect milk from an offending supplier.6. Could this damage Fonterra’s reputation for producing ‘clean, green, 100% pure’ milk products?Any behavior of this sort undermines the reputation of the dairy industry and particularly the 10,000 or more Fonterra farmers who are acting responsibly.7. Is there a risk Fonterra’s competitors could pounce on this to discredit Fonterra’s reputation in Europe in particular?There is that risk, but we would expect other members of the dairy industry internationally to recognise that while these actions are totally unacceptable, they are not representative of the New Zealand dairy industry as a whole and not something that is acceptable to Fonterra or its suppliers8. Does Fonterra have a policy on when it will refuse to collect milk from producers that damage the environment or neglect their animals?Yes. We will refuse to collect milk when there has been a successful prosecution and no remedial action has been taken by the shareholders.
Action was taken this year in Australia with a contract supplier because of animal welfare charges. Supply has since resumed with the farm under new management and meeting strict conditions
9. Has Fonterra ever refused milk because of poor quality?Yes we have refused supply when milk has tested for high somatic cell counts or bacterial counts10. What proportion of Fonterra’s supply comes from Crafar Farms?Fonterra collects around 14 billion litres of milk a year. Crafar Farms represents a tiny proportion of our overall supply.
1. What does the Minister think of MAF’s performance in this case? (Given MAF was slow to respond to the complaint, promised Mr Crafar it would not prosecute and has known about this farm for some time)2. Should the government, Fonterra and Mr Crafar’s banks (Westpac, Rabobank and PGG Wrightson Finance) step into manage the farming group given the potential damage from Mr Crafar’s continued management of this farm?3. Why does MAF only have 5 animal inspectors for the whole of New Zealand?4. Are you happy Fonterra has continued to accept milk from Crafar Farms?5. Do you think this example (and many others sent to me since we broke this story) is indicative of systemic problems within New Zealand’s new and very large converted dairy farms?6. Do you think this example shows that some farms have grown too fast and are too indebted?7. Do you think this incident poses a risk to New Zealand’s reputation as a clean, green 100% pure producer of dairy products?
Tags: Allan Crafar, Benneydale, Crafar Farms, CraFarms, Dairy NZ, Fonterra, MAF, Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry, Tim Mackle
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September 28th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Discraceful. Typical of some farmers ‘they know best’ attitude – they wear their ignorance like a badge of honour. Well done on publicising this, I hope it gets the widest coverage.
September 28th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
Garry you have to be joking mate. If you are happy to defend the Crafars then you must be as bad as them. No self respecting farmer would run a business like this, nor let it get out of control as it has. Look at the video as it speaks for itself.
BH, the clock on here is out by 1 hour, did you forget about daylight savings?
Fixed now. Bryan Spondre
September 28th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
This is very disturbing on many levels,, firstly the obligation of any person on a farm is to the animals, no one has the right to maltreat any animal. The fact that there is no prosecution of the neglect is a indictment on the system, and needs further investigation. Having known some inside info on the Crafar operation, it comes as no surprise that the whole operation is in chaos, one wonders what needs to happen in the short term, the problem is not going to fix itself, and even if the farms did sell it is still 8 months away from change over. There is no quick fix to this situation, as interim farm managers are in short supply.
Thank you Bernard for your good work, I realize it must of been very distressing to be physically and verbally assaulted, but someone had to stand up, please keep us posted of any further up dates.
This is also a disgrace to the many very good farmers that exercise great animal husbandry and take care to provide the necessaries of life.
September 28th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
What do you have to do to get prosecuted by MAF! Come on MAF do your job. Apalling. Great story BH.
September 28th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Disgusting…..Have family as farmers and the care and concern they show their livestock is heartwarming and then creeps like this openly farm , torture their livestock and tarnish my family and my countries image….And you say there are more farmers like this?
September 28th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
I only hope that these hillbillies don’t represent any more than 1% of the industry,sadly I suspect that’s probably not the case. The only positive thing about this is that if the Crafar’s are a good representation of the farming sector, then there’s HUGE scope for improvement. Anyone seen John Key??????
You can tell a lot about a craftsman by the way he treats his tools………Not that I’d call the Crafars craftsman, more like “cowboys”
September 28th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Correct me if I’m wrong, Bernard, but assault in New Zealand is assault, even if it’s on private property. Tresspass is remedied under our laws by recourse to the police, not violence. Will Bryan be making that point clear?
September 28th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
This is rather disturbing and it does give a rather poor image about the dairy industry. This is what happens when the only motive is money.
Having been brought up on a dairy farm though I have to correct you about a point in the video. When calves try and suckle another calf for milk like the one in the video, this does not mean that they are malnourished. This is what they do when they get hungry (Normally hungry just like I am hungry now.), they will try to suckle anything. This does show that the calf hasn’t been taught how to drink properly (Even then they will try to suckle anything.).
Otherwise a good report.
September 28th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
There is something very, very seriously wrong with New Zealand, its’ attitudes and values when the discharge of effluent will result in a prosecution and fine but the wantan mistreatment of animals and there needs results in no such action. What is wrong with MAF? are they really the bunch of lame, lilly livered creatures they appear?
September 28th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
I wonder why the SPCA hasn’t got involved, as iot comes down to animal welfare. These farmers shouldn’t be allowed to keep animals, if they do that, that is a disgrace.
September 28th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
This is freakin disgusting. It should be on the Close up show or campbell live to get some exposure of these Crafar scumbags.
September 28th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Thats disgusting. I can understand being broke, and unable to afford food for them, however at this point surely you would hand them over to somebody else ?
September 28th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
Appalling is the word. These people are a disgrace to the industry.
BH’s questions demand answers,and right from the top of the organizations involved.
The allegations of MAF connivance in animal welfare neglect are particularly disturbing. Unless sorted, this will be seized upon by the US and EU and be back to haunt us within hours.
Expect to see the Minister,and DG of MAF squirming on the TV news tonight. Possibly even Federated Farmers and Fonterra might have something negative to say about the Crafars. It should never have been allowed to get to this state of affairs.
September 28th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Careful Bernard your playing with lives now! Lets hope the banks are commercial enough to wind this mess up as fast as possible!!!
In answer to your question “why have we let the industry get to this stage”? The simple answer is GREED. We must remember that the Crafar Family have only got to this stage because the banks allowed them to. Fonterra has penalised the hell out of them for low quality milk but Fonterra still needs the milk to keep its factories efficient, Fonterra is therefore caught between a rock and a hard place.
An error of low yield and high capital gains has come & gone, shortly its likely we will see the Reserve Bank get control of Banks Capital Ratios which is likely to cause more stress for those farmers that are over indebted.
You need to be putting pressure on the BANKS far more than the pressure your putting on the Crafars. Remember every banker is aware of how the Crafars operate you are not telling the rural professionals anything they dont already know. Remember the Crafars will possibly lose everything they’ve lived for and the banks nothing but someone else’s money!.
September 28th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
This is nothing but poorly written tabloid journalism, by someone more interested in manufacturing a story than the issue itself. My respect for you and this website has been seriously destroyed. Where is the neutrality?
I agree with Mr Crafer that to publish that video would be a serious mistake, and would serve to damage this country’s reputation for no sensible gain, other than what you will no doubt attempt to justify as “public good”.
The way Alan has acted in the past decade, particularly the past 5 years has been cavalier, granted. However he does not deserve to be ridiculed in this way. In a lot of ways he typifies what it is to be a kiwi, honest, hard working, ambitious. He has made some business mistakes, over leveraged himself yes, but he is not a bad man as made out by this and many other recent publications.
As someone who knows more of the more private details of the situation, I am shocked that there are so many reporters out there so willing to cut down a man and his family so ruthlessly.
This article is a mistake.
September 28th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
Well done. This hurts, and may hurt more, but like a festering boil it needed lancing before the posion goes too far. I hope you can do similar with this issue, which has similar shades of the good old ’swept under the carpet’ (denial) approach that seems to get used in so many areas of government and government departments:
http://www.interest.co.nz/ratesblog/index.php/2009/08/05/have-your-say-housing-minister-others-benefit-from-rents-paid-by-government/#comment-39002
September 28th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
As a dairy farmer myself it is very concerning to see this sort of thing on the internet. But this behaviour has been going on for to long. The industry has had its chance to clean up now it looks like its going to be done for them.
The Crafars are an embarrassment to the industry and for Allan to claim that he is an average dairy farmer offends me. Claiming the environmental and welfare standards are to high is a joke. In general regional councils have taken a cooperative and patient approach to lifting standards. As for animal welfare these so called farmers should have long been banned from owning animals.
I farm a large number of cows and know several people with several thousand cows, large farms can be well run and most are.
There is know excuse for this or any of the incidence that have happened on the Crafars farms over the years. Take some responsibility Allan an co instead of blaming everyone but yourself. The culture of any organisation set at the top, and the culture of Crafarms is one of disrespect for animals, the environment and New Zealand.
September 28th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
Garry said:
”In a lot of ways he typifies what it is to be a kiwi, honest, hard working, ambitious”.
I assume you are being deeply ironic, right? If not, you seem to be insulting most of the inhabitants of the rest of these islands.
September 28th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
Well said, Osty, on both points! But Sadly, Garry does not appear to be joking. That sums up his humanity.
September 28th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
First I want to say good work Bernard for bringing this story.
However storys like this are unfortunatly no news to me and I feel a bit confused about the whole thing. It was not that long ago that that Crafars and their property developer friends were the poster boys of the succes story of NZ dairying and were going to save the country and make us all wealthy. Only very few people seemed to be concerned that the ever increasing average herdsizes would be an issue.
The moment the nz dairyindustry said goodbye to the familyfarm in persuit of greater wealth for a few, we had to realise a 300 cow farm run by an owner operator or a 1500 cow farm run by staff often unmotifated and underpayd and owned by a property developer who has a few more farms like that are two completely different things.
We are now waking up to an industry that has grown to fast and have to face the consequenses.
September 28th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
Im shocked and disgusted, Who to blame, the management and they deserve to be hammered. This is happening across NZ because Fonterra and farmers are fixated with production. Ferrier reiterated Fonterra’s goal of a %2.5 compounding growth in milk supply as one of Fonterra’s main aims. You cannot increase the amount of animals without consequences both to welfare and the environment,production has costs and consequences
Ive been farming all my life and occasionally I miss a fly stuck ewe or a cattle beast with a worm infestation or an infection. This is absolutely appalling yet its been common knowledge in the industry for years. We have big dairy farmers employing vets so they can continue to induce and if you think this is bad be around for the results of that. This is an affront to every Kiwi farmer that cares about his animals and always puts animals first,the NZ milk industry under Fonterra has completely lost its head,this will have consequences we need to brace ourselves .
Perhaps its time to dig up the photo of the tractor being driven down the road in the Central north Island with a live cow impaled on its silage forks while it moved its head from side to side. That was 2 years ago I think.
September 28th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
Dry shares, anyone?
September 28th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
It’s a disgrace that Alllan Crafar is even free to continue his involvement with these farms. His recalcitrant effluent discharge offences and comments in the media clearly show that fines are not enough to for him to get the message his activities are criminal.
Of any polluter in the country, he surely warrants imprisonment as provided for under s. 339 of the Resource Mangement Act.
September 28th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
“He complained that yesterday there were only 23 hours in the day because of daylight saving, which had robbed him of one hour for work”.
Hilarious if it wasn’t true! He’s now blaming father time.
Not a pretty picture indeed. In a shed that size you would expect the noise to be deafening with a human coming near it. Instead we heard only a few bleats, the rest of the poor animals too tired to even cry out for food.
I don’t think any farmer would defend this and it isn’t a true indication of how other better farmers treat their animals.
After the “murder in Matamata” I am now worried about Crafar’s comment “I’d much rather shoot a human than a calf.”
Thanks for that kind thought Cactus. I am now locking myself in, checking the windows and fixing a kitchen knife to a broom handle
Bryan Spondre”
September 28th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
I’d imagine you would be upset if Crafar took a walk around your house and snapped a few photos of your Mrs in the shower through the bath room window.
September 28th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
Garry Says:
“This is nothing but poorly written tabloid journalism, by someone more interested in manufacturing a story than the issue itself. My respect for you and this website has been seriously destroyed. Where is the neutrality?”
What happens happens….tabliod press twist things around…and I dont mean Bryan’s face…
“Violence is when one runs out of intelligence”
I agree with Mr Crafer that to publish that video would be a serious mistake, and would serve to damage this country’s reputation for no sensible gain, other than what you will no doubt attempt to justify as “public good”.
I disagree….No matter where in the world one goes, no where is perfect
If it is shown that our farmers, MAF, Police, Banks have a nil tolerance to such overall behaviour on all counts, that is good publicity if spun truthfully
What does give NZ a bad reputation is MAF and powers to be dont have a nil tolerance, and thats not the media fault…
If it is not reported, swept under the carpet as you suggest…thats a bigger crime to NZ.
“When in Doubt, just lay it out and let everything fall where it should”
Sort of like the free market should work…
Compelments to Bernard and Bryan…play it by the book…lay a complaint
September 28th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
Isn’t this just part of the ETS scheme? 40% by 2020 isn’t it?
September 28th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
Shorty
especially if you had been beating the snot out of her.
September 28th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
Sorry – I missed something who is beating the snot out of their wife? BH or Crafar?
September 28th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Great article. The greater farming community must take some blame and should do a little bit of soul searching for not policing itself better. In many ways NZ is like the Chinese manufacturing of agriculture–low cost. Fonterra has always been accused of dumping milk on the world markets. And what about quality? Federated farmers claimed that NZ butter was of a higher quality (more fat) than Country Life. An internet search of the packaging shows this to be false. Are farmers just naive of the products that Fonterra sells? What is the business strategy for growing the New Zealand agriculture brand. Is it cost saving 8 hour cheese manufacturing or green healthy and responsible?
So if quality isn’t a marketing point and New Zealand gets a reputation for bad farming practices then we have real trouble.
I believe a vital step in the solution is to strip Fonterra of the right to the trademark “New Zealand Milk” Polluters should not be able to trade off the clean and green image that supports the tourism industry.
Lastly 200 employees on a 200 Million dollar loan probably not a great use of capital
September 28th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
My friend was arrested and fingerprinted 5 years ago. Had to appear in court and make reparations. His crime? Removing a dead branch off a pine tree on a beach reserve.
So how come these barely human monsters get fined only $200 for polluting waterways?
Will these newly revealed animal cruelty offences go unpunished? What a stupid country this is sometimes.
September 28th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
NZ is now going find out about the power of the Internet. How long before this video is a top rating one on YouTube ?
September 28th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
Im amazed Bernard, I was expecting an injunction by now.
Ive been talking to some friends in the industry and general comments are this is not unusual although they are not happy about it but say nothing its honor amongst farmers i guess.
They have talked to me before about mastitis cows getting a rubber ring on the offending teet, but Im afraid its a result of farmers chasing capital gains and Fonterra paying more for milk than the market was paying, creating a huge bubble. Bankers have now become total fools.
September 28th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
It’s on TV1 at 7pm tonight. I see Fonterra has just opened a $200,000,000 milk powder plant – don’t they already have stockpiles of that stuff?
September 28th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
Q: Is it possible the high levels Calf losses are the result of a Bug in the rearing shed [ i.e. Rota Virus, E-coli, Campylobacter etc]? …in the video there appeared to be wet milk under the feedstations, which may indicate milk has been recently available.
Q: Did anyone take Faecal samples from the sick Animals for microbiological testing?
Q: To give some perspective…What were losses compared to total Calves on this farm/Season?
Devils Advocate here… but, stikes me there must be more to this storey than a conspiricy to commit animal cruelty.
September 28th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
Disgusting. Crafar depressed? Not surprising given his treatment of his stock. Has he got a heart or a cash register? Certainly no conscience.
September 28th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
Mouse,
Scours was not the problem. They were all dehydrated. We asked all those questions. Allan Crafar himself was shocked at the video and what it shows. He acknowledges this was bad management pure and simple. MAF acknowledges it too.
I grew up on a dairy farm. I know the difference between scours and dehydration, as does the person who took this video.
Real farmers know this was a case of abuse.
There’s no conspiracy. It’s just a cockup driven by bad management.
Cheers
Bernard
September 28th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
It’s on Mark Sainsbury’s ‘Close Up’, ch One, 7pm tonight.
September 28th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
Well done Bernard.
Trespass is only that when you have advised the person or persons that they are not permitted to be on your property and give them a chance to leave. Even a sign is not notice (no pun intended).
Shorty – your analogy fails in every respect. Taking photos of a shed cannot be compared to taking photos of someone in the shower through a window.
Garry – you are right in one respect – Crafar does not deserve ridicule – he deserves to be judged by a jury of his peers (you might fit in that category), prosecution, sadly MAF are like every other regulator in this country and they don’t have the guts to do it.
September 28th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Garry – “I agree with Mr Crafer that to publish that video would be a serious mistake, and would serve to damage this country’s reputation for no sensible gain, other than what you will no doubt attempt to justify as “public good”.
You must be joking. Its like people saying don’t talk about war crimes or genocide because it will make other countries think badly of us. Bernard you are right. MAF, Fonterra and the NZ govt need a huge boot up their arse. 100% Pure, give me a break!
Shorty – “I’d imagine you would be upset if Crafar took a walk around your house and snapped a few photos of your Mrs in the shower through the bath room window.”
Well said AndrewJ – “especially if you had been beating the snot out of her.”
That whole attitude “its not our business, don’t say anything” has to be changed.
Animals and the environment are paying the price for dairy’s rapid expansion. Externalising environmental and animal welfare costs is just an immoral subsidy.
September 28th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
Absolutely gut wrenching stuff. will be very interesting now this is out in the open to see just what the SPCA or MAF do about this, I suspect not very much. It is not only the calves that are left to die, cows once past their use by date were being put on trucks down in Southland without first being emptied out – result – arriving at the works with broken legs. although I understand there are now tighter controls put in place. So much for New Zealand’s clean green image. good on you Bernard. and Gary you are an absolute Moron, you would have to be one of Crafars’ mates.
September 28th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
Anyone else who watched the TVNZ report think they were the most reptilian of crocodile tears from Mr Crafar?
September 28th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
People may wish to follow what farmers are saying
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Community/MessageBoard/Messages.aspx?id=38870769&threadid=38870769
September 28th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
@Andy – yep. You’re on the money.
September 28th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
Andy, they weren’t even tears. It was the worst attemp at acting I’ve seen for years.
September 28th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
I had to go to the toilet and throw up. I still feel sick and have cried for these poor, poor calves. I wanted to leap out and grab those people from MAF and this so-called producer by the throat. Crafar’s crocodile tears were for the bad publicity not for these poor animals. They are only $1 in their minds not living, breathing, feeling babies. I will fight for as long as I can breathe to get Crafar and all these monsters out of the industry and brought to full account. I want a full investigation of MAF’s role in this and for the investigation to be expanded to cover other industries and possible incidents of such gross ill treatment. The agriculture industy in NZ has a lot of explaining to do.
September 28th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
I dont know what appalls me more, the neglect of the animals or the fact it was allowed to happen again and again with effectively MAF doing nothing. “Mr” Crafar should be in jail…and the MAF ppl sacked for this disgrace, once is bad, twice is in-excusable….$200 fine? thats a sick joke…..6months behind bars, simple.
regards
September 28th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
I knew one of his managers when he worked in the South Island….Absolute plonker whose herd death rate was appaling. Only lasted the one season with the Farm Owner and eneded up working for Crafer as no one would employ him.Sources have told me his herd death rate is still unreal and where not talking about Calves either. From this i would say most of Crafers farm workers are the unemployable in the industry and have no scrupples or animal welfare skills what so ever. I’m glad to say that this is a very small minority from dealings i have in the dairy industry and most farmers will be appalled. I urge Fonterra to stop taking there milk and close them down…although i suppose he’ll just end up supplying Talleys dairy industry which isn’t much better when it comes to clean buisness ethics!!!
September 28th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
It seemed to fool Laclan MacKenzie though, “…he’s breaking up there.” If it’s that easy to fool the folk who are supposed to promote and support good practice, is it any wonder this has happened, been allowed to continue to happen.
Meanwhile, the English issue is heading for the underside of the carpet.
September 28th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
Deleted. if your that apalled and disgusted, why not go out there and give them a hand? oh thats because that would involve you leaving your computer. The crafars are being targeted here because they are such a large organisation. If this was just some farmer joe i highly doubt there would be this much publicity. The crafars are human not supermen, they own over 30,000 stock and do the best they can. They didnt no this was going own so come off it.
Deleted.
Rahira , this is not Kiwiblog. Your comment has been deleted for being abusive and you have been permanently banned. Bryan Spondre
September 28th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Well thats another apologist popping up to lend support. There are a few of them about which adds credence to the view that the Crafer’s are not an isolated problem……
September 28th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Actually Rahira I don’t think that ignorant bastards like you have got off your ass and looked after your stock as you are supposed to. Perhaps some of you spend too much time in front of your computer on administration and not enough time in the field on hands-on livestock management. You should go to Massey and learn the basics of how farming in New Zealand is supposed to be and why we are looked up to by the rest of the world – or used to be.
September 28th, 2009 at 7:58 pm
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/farming/2900355/Crafars-in-hot-water-again.
Rahira – your post says it all.
September 28th, 2009 at 7:58 pm
Lachlan McKenzie surely meant ‘hamming it up’ not ‘breaking up’…didn’t he?
Taxpayers watching on TV1 can presume they won’t now be subsidizing Crafar under the ETS. Under Kyoto those 20k cows may cost NZ $1m per year.
The questions posed by BH earlier have yet to be fully answered by MAF. We will await answers with interest….(sorry…)
September 28th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
Well this has been a long time coming and something we have discussed in lectures. ((Some)) farmers need to start thinking outside the square and about the long term sustainability of the industry if they want to survive, others are doing an amazing job of it already but keep getting dragged down by scenarios like this one.
Yes it’s tough to keep an eye on everything on a farm but the calves are generally always right where everybody can see them and so there are absolutely no excuses here, just gross negligence. New Zealand’s point of difference on the world stage is its clean green grass fed image. Our customers think about a place (NZ) they would love to be when they consume our products. Well what the hell will they think now then eh? I feel ashamed to be part of an industry with such fools running some of our largest agricultural enterprises. Mr Crafar is not totally to blame here, as a farmer with so many farms He must need to place a huge amount of faith in his farm managers (like that nutter that hit the reporter). Sometimes in any industry the faith you had in someone proves to be a mistake, unfortunately more than once in the Crafars case.
Dairy NZ gets about 40 million dollars from milk levies a year for agricultural research and extension. This helps dairy farmers improve their business and achieve their targets, how about giving MAF some of those levies to ensure there will still be a dairy industry for students like me to work in when we graduate.
September 28th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
Right on Ag Student. The industry is in good hands if you are representative of the people coming up through the system …
September 28th, 2009 at 8:13 pm
As Bernard says “it was a cock up driven by bad management” “no conspiracy”.The manager of the farm should of shot the calves as soon as they were idenified as unwanted.
That didn’t happen so here you all are blaming fonterra,abusing the crafars and putting farmers where they belong.At the bottom of the poo pile.
I for one admire Allan Crafar.He is truthfull hes worked hard done alot for the dairy industry.He has made a few mistakes and now he’s gone belly up(which alot of people seem to take alot of glee in) But at least he gave it a good go.
Judging from the vitirol on this thread I think there must be alot of jealousy of nz farmers for what they have worked hard for.
What happened to the farm you grew up on Bernard??
September 28th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
as a farmer i would like to see the crafer farms cut out of fontera like the festering mole they are. they ruin the rep of the few famers who care about water quality, animal welfere and the future of the industry for future generations. Allancrafer probably hasnt milked a cow for years he isnt a farmer he is just a greedy capitilist who will do any thing for money. If the corperate farmers of nz take down the industry i will be piss off because i like farming and looking after the enviroment for the future and so my boys may, one day enjoy the life farming can provide.
September 28th, 2009 at 8:25 pm
I think that Allan Crafar should be charged AGAIN over the new information that has been highlighted to the NZ public!!.. This is cruelty at its worst and disgraceful… The only person who should be ‘embarrassed’ is Crafar himself for allowing this to happen on his farms. A prudent farm manager and owner would never let this happen.
Mr Crafar is arrogant in thinking that a few tears on Close-up will get the people of NZ’s sympathy! He SHOULD sell his farms…. the dairy industry will be much better without him representing them!!
As for MAF – realistically they need to be better staffed, in order to work 7 days per week. When complaints such as the Crafar affair are made, they should be acted upon THE SAME DAY!!
September 28th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
In hard economic times most prudent business managers/owners cut the cloth to fit the table. Not the dairy farmer, they cut throats and cream what’s left.
Mouse’s comments above may have some validity however the hidden and not often talked about practice of genocide of immune depressed calves, a common practice of dairy farming that’s sole purpose is to initiate the production of milk from the cow a couple of weeks earlier than nature had intended. A practice that is production driven and production is profit driven.
What would the SPCA do if an ethnic minority genocide half a dozen puppies by hitting them on the head with a hammer so one could collect the milk from their mother? National shame for a start, court second, large fine (larger than $200) and possibly prison. In the name of farming this practice is acceptable.
This farmer is not on his own with the treatment of calves you have demonstrated.
When it comes to the practice of the chemically inducing of healthy calves’ for a bit of extra milk to send to Fonterra, farmers seem not to hesitate using this practice.
If the public knew the full story of what happens behind the scenes on a dairy farm all hell would break loose. The devils advocate mouse was talking about.
Come clean farmer, front up, humble your selves, confess your sins, show the transparency the Fed Farmer Fep said you all live by, tell us what you really do to make the big bucks.
For what its worth, the carnage your industry is doing to us as a nation in the name of the nation is a veil of deceit that you all ought to come out from behind. Shame…shame…shame
September 28th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
@ Ian
“You should go to Massey and learn the basics of how farming in New Zealand is supposed to be and why we are looked up to by the rest of the world”
We should be careful with the idea that we are looked up to by the rest of the world.
The main reason for this is our low cost of production, becourse we don’t have to house oure animals. That oure cows stand for 2 months in a muddy crop paddock exposed to the climate, and thousands of lambs will die wen a southerly hits the country in august wil not be regarded as good farming all over the world.
September 28th, 2009 at 8:32 pm
A sad story. Judging from the many informed comments above, I sort of feel sorry for Alan Crafar. Ambitious and energetic, but unaware of his limited skills, he’s gotten in far too deep. Obviously he realises this now as the imminent sale of the properties is evidence.. but it’s all much too late. Now it’s going to be lose-lose all the way, all the needless, disgusting animal cruelty, the stress and hostilty, and bitter loss of a lifetime’s work. Even the likely sale of such large chunk of rural NZ to Chinese interests (whose reputation in this area is even worse) can be scarcely considered a brilliant outcome. It’s a miserable story all round.
Worse still, if this goes viral on the net, it could do enormous and entirely avoidable harm to the whole industry.
There were many people who could have taken far more decisive action to prevent matters reaching this low point, MAF, the banks and various officers within Fonterra. This must be a big wake up call to the industry.
September 28th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
And another one pops up (sorry not you Redlogix).
In many ways this is very revealing. Those such as the Fed Farmers mouthpiece who tonight claimed the usual defence of ‘isolated incident’ need to expain why there are apparently more than a few in the industry who ‘admire’ the Crafers and who feel they are ‘put upon’. The Crafers have acharge sheet as long as my arm yet they still have their defenders. I wonder what happens to the stock on these people’s farms when no-one is looking.
Having read the deniers crawl out of the woodwork I have come to the conclusion that the best thing that could happen is for this report to go global. Maybe then the industry and the regulators will act to clean out the detritus.
September 28th, 2009 at 8:53 pm
I don’t think the motivation is to destroy Crafar farms, but rather protect the live stock that are under his care (Or lack of) I was born and raised on a farm and have been a manager for many years, and there is no excuse for poor stockmanship. You have to put measures in place, employ more staff, but it begs the question, how big do you have to get in farming, how big is the ego?
I fenced on a dairy conversion some years back, that year the manager lost 80 cows, it was disgraceful, and this was one of the shinning lights of dairy farming at the time. this needs to stop.
September 28th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
And lets be very clear here, exposing and cleaning up these issues is GOOD for NZ’s image in the long run (if anyone remembers what that is….).
In the modern market place, and especially for the food people put in their mouth, there can be no room for the traditional Kiwi gung-ho, she’ll be right attitude to standards and quality.
Keep it up Bernard!
September 28th, 2009 at 9:01 pm
This thread will be vigorously moderated. Keep on the topic.
Bryan Spondre
September 28th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
Suzie
Im not ashamed of being a dairy famer.Im a small farmer with 200 cows.I get to know my cows and get close to them while they are here and it saddens me alot when I send them away knowing what will happen to them.I dont induce cows and I like to think I give the bobby calves a well fed comfotable time while they get up to weight.
I”ve worked hard all my life to own this farm debt free,Ive raised 5 kids,put them through uni and given them a good start in life
For you to jump up on you soap box and tell me that I am the shame of the nation is deeply offensive.
I think you are the one that should be ashamed
September 28th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
All this vindictive talk about the Crafers… They are just the publicised farmer. DO YOU REALLY THINK THEY ARE ALONE WITH THIS CARRY ON???. Animal welfare in Dairy farming is appalling.
September 28th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
Congratulations on exposing this horrendous case of animal abuse as well as MAFs response to it, which- to date – is a joke. We are a nation filled with child and animal abusers. Both crimes need to be severly punished to send a clear message that this behaviour is not tolerated in our society.
September 28th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
I actually have some sympathy for indebted dairy farmers. Crafars were probably paying over 380k a week in interest, one bad week and next you have to find 650k.
The debt in the industry mainly in the larger or new conversions must be causing an awful amount of heartache and sleepless nights.
The reality is that farming has always had low returns and land was always too expensive,but the boom of the last few years has created a culture of greed. The valuable land has to be paid off with a poor performing asset, costs have to be cut to the bone. We need to get back to the family farm and its going to be painful but I struggle to find another answer.
Fonterra’s behavior and involvement in this debacle needs questioning.
September 28th, 2009 at 9:23 pm
I shall be closing my Raboplus accounts. Seems my significant other bank has more than just soil on its hands…….
September 28th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Community/MessageBoard/Messages.aspx?id=38870769&p=2&c=1
September 28th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
??
September 28th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
‘Obviously the legal system thinks because we own them we should take responsibility.’
Alan Crafar.
http://www.ruralnews.co.nz/Default.asp?task=article&subtask=show&item=18371&pageno=1
September 28th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
I am hoping this doesn’t read as I think it does?
“”I have no sympathy for Alan at all when I have seen him cut off a baby calf’s head off with a chainsaw because the cow was having issues of giving birth”"
You what???
September 28th, 2009 at 9:44 pm
Jesus, I can’t believe that some people here were crying over watching this video. Yeah you all jump to persecute the owner of the farm who never harmed anybody. The animals are his to look after and if he failed he only failed himself and not the NZ society. He doesn’t owe his animals anything, he only owes everything to himself. If such practice punishes him in the market place then that’s his faults, not anyone else. Not commentators here who have displayed an almost maudlin concern for the welfare of those cows.
There are more important issues to worry about such as taxcuts, because the government is doing us over in there, but to cry over a farmer who neglected his own cows, who never stole money or hurt anyone here is simply pathetic. Get over it people. If the farmer in question had violated the animals from neighboring farms that were not his, then the maudlin concern is perhaps justified, but the farmer never did.
September 28th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
I know I am not going to change anyone’s mind here. I also recognise that the Crafar situation is excessive and unforgivable. However farming is not paradise, at least not always. The average farmer is a good bloke just like the average banker, postman, truck driver or blogger. The average farmer has stock die on his farm. On average about 2 to 3percent of all adult cattle and 3 to 5 percent of all adult sheep die each year. Death rates in young stock are higher. That means in 10,000 cows, whether they are all on one farm or in 50 farms, about 250 cows and even more calves will die each year. Most die at this time of year. Giving birth is a stressful time for all species.
Not all farmers are average. Some are better, much better. Some are worse, much worse. But they all have stock that die. From what I can see the Crafar farm is unacceptable, no question. The question I do have for all of you who are appalled is, what number of deaths is acceptable? Many of you are calling for the Crafar behaviour to be cleaned up, as you should, but if you mean by that that all deaths must be prevented then you have no appreciation of the temporary nature of life. So, tell me what level of deaths should occur on a farm the size of Crafars each year?
You can make this judgement. You already do in other situations. For example you or at least your society is prepared to accept around 400 human lives each year as a price for travelling on roads.
September 28th, 2009 at 10:07 pm
Falafulu Fisi what you say may be ok where you come from like eating your dogs but it isn’t here in this country. The animals are his responsibility to look after. If he can’t he harms the entire industry and he should get out. Same goes to you.
September 28th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
From the trademe thread that Andrewj has highlighted:
”I farm in Reporoa very close to where the family lives and have known the Crafars since they moved to Reporoa in the very early 80s. I truthfully think that the whole operation has just become far to big to operate effectively (both in regards to individual farm size as well as the whole operation) and this is a situation that is being played out all over the country on some of the larger farms where there are absentee owners. I have personally seen some absolutely abhorant cases of animal neglect on farms operated under similar circumstances as well as some shocking cases of total incompetence in all aspects of farming on these same farms”.
Thats the problem – the Crafer’s are the tip of the iceberg by all accounts despite what the Fed Farmer mouthpiece had to say. And anyone else notice how he kept hiding behind ‘I can’t comment because this is going to court’? Hang on a minute MAF make plain in their answers to BH that they have not even decided whether they are going to press charges. None of these matters are sub judice.
September 28th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Falafulu Fisi may eat his own dog when he”s hungry but he makes a good point.
probably the most reasonable comment on this thread
September 28th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
Right on Andy. I noted that as well.
September 28th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
This video simply adds to the growing dossier on the bad farming practises of this enterprise . Real farmers do care about their stock , and are appalled by what they see happening on Crafar’s farms .
As for our ” 100 % Pure ” image abroad ; the Crafars have blasted a hole through that !
How’s the head Bryan ? Good work . Next time take some big ” heavies ” with you , sorry that’s right , Bernard was there !!!
September 28th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
Are you looking for a physical job Roger ?
September 28th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
FF said:
”Yeah you all jump to persecute the owner of the farm who never harmed anybody”.
Notwithstanding the animal neglect issues, it hasn’t actually occurred to you then the actions of this farmer might just conceivably hurt the overseas markets on which our biggest export earner depends?
I tell you what, go over to Europe and find out how well this sort of story plays to the consumers over there and come back and tell us again how the actions of this poor misunderstood farmer aren’t going to hurt anyone in good old NZ.
September 28th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
I was a farmer for 43 years and if I say so myself, a bloody good farmer. One thing I knew was that MAF are about as much use as tits on a bull. Just a bunch of bloody no hopers that should have been got rid of years ago. At least the RSPCA tries to do their best with the little funding they have. As I warned a while ago I intend to e-mail this article and any other similar articles to news agencies around the world and let the world know New Zealand agriculture’s dirty little secrets. Where is Fonterra, Federated Farmers, Minister of Agriculture, MAF etc. All MIA. All no hopers.
September 28th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
If New Zealand as a whole is a business then one of the most valuable assets is the brand. The NZ brand identity for many businesses is clean, green pure etc. Currently, there is no negative identity.
Any defense of these farming practices, even if valid, would be missing a more important business issue. Perception is everything; and if the consumers of NZ products don’t like this farming practice then every NZ business is hurt a little. As the saying goes “the customer is always right.”
An analogous situation is the backlash clothing manufacturers faced over using sweatshop labor. Protests from a small group can cause brand damage that takes years to repair.
This story has many elements which are important issues: 1)Poor debt management on the part of businesses. (Did anyone learn about capital structure on their way up the corporate ladder?) 2)Pollution. Many rivers are damaged by bad farming practices. The tourism industry just doesn’t make a clear enough case for the economic damage done. There is a huge future scarcity value of a maintaining a pristine environment. 3) Refusal of many to accept constructive criticism 4) The lack of resources of many regulatory bodies.
Fonterra as a Monopsony has the power to ensure/enforce best-in-world farming practices. They have a responsibility to be a good steward of the NZ brand name
September 28th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Surely the real news is this:
“4. How many dedicated investigators does MAF have to investigate animal welfare on farms in New Zealand?
MAF is currently resourced for five animal welfare inspectors. Other part time assistance is utilised as required”.
Five animal welfare inspectors? And what was MAFs entire budget? No wonder greed has been allowed to take over. Obviously the Government doesn’t give a toss about animal welfare on our farms.
September 28th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
I don’t see any point at all in what Falafulu says. The Crafars and their proponents are harming the industry and bringing the reputation of NZ and the majority of good farmers into international disrepute. This is what you have forgotten – conveniently. To blame a lack of taxcuts and other government policies on bad farming and animal husbandry practice is ludicrous and typical of the pass-the buck-attitude of the people we saw in the Closeup story. They got caught out – that’s what really happened in spite of all the excuses.
September 28th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
Bernard and Bryan
This is gutter journalism. You are supposed to be running a website discussing economic, financial and investment matters. I’m certainly not impressed by you trying to run an expose on animal welfare in the guise of being of economic interest.
This and the previous article you ran on Mr Crafar’s farms run close to being a defamatory smear campaign.
Bernard, it appears you are more interested in discrediting the abilities of any person who works hard and builds a large scale enterprise than providing a balanced forum for discussing economic policies. Readers have endured your rants disparaging property developers, finance company directors and private individual property investors – only last week you ran a poll on whether South Canterbury Finance should be put in receivership and Allan Hubbard wiped out – this is just totally inappropriate treatment of a successful businessman.
I cannot believe that you could feel that it is appropriate to arrive at someones private property seeking answers to confrontational questions – if you feel that is in anyway appropriate in any professional capacity it demonstrates a complete lack of good judgment on your part.
I’m afraid Bryan you probably deserved you punishment.
Extremely poor form Bernard.
September 28th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
Yeah you do that bobby you bloody good farmer you!!
!!!dickhead!!!
September 28th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
?
September 28th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
Kate – so true.
How many farms in NZ? For 5 investigators to cover?
Collusion from top to bottom? The sins of omission?
September 28th, 2009 at 10:39 pm
Carc, Crafer, all sounds the same! Nothing to hide is there? I bet you look after your stock about as good as your mates the Crafers. You have a lot to learn boy.The sooner the crap is cleaned out of farming the better.
September 28th, 2009 at 10:42 pm
Carc,
I put my money where my mouth is and went to a dairy farm and got a dozen of the immune deficient little gems, have been around the clock feeding them for the past three weeks with milk replacer and electrolytes every four hours, only to watch each one die in my arms. Vet explained what the problem is and advised that I was silly trying the impossible. Carc, I couldn’t not.
One of the hardest things in life is to love animals, period, and see the unjust and unfair start that admittedly a number of dairy calves get, and then be told why this practice is done, I cant see the point, unless the dollar signs are in front of the decimal point.
cheers for your comments but.
September 28th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
Chris, this is an example of how the Internet has given power back to the ordinary person who hasn’t previously had a voice.
You are probably happy to keep that power in the hands of a few in the print and electronic media but, if so, I don’t understand why.
Please give people credit to make up their own minds. No-one should be frightened of having an open debate. As you can see there are diverse views expressed here and that’s healthy.
Keep up the good work Bernard and Bryan.
September 28th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
To Ian, Andy Hamilton, Lew Burton and Kate. You all believe that the Crafar’s actions are unacceptable. Given my post above on the typical situation on a stock farm, what do you consider to be acceptable?
September 28th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
Ian said…
The animals are his responsibility to look after.
That’s exactly what I said. He only failed himself and not you, me nor the NZ society. Look, you would still be able to go the supermarket tomorrow and do your grocery shoppings. The supermarket is not going to shut down simply because some farmers somewhere had mismanaged their own animals.
Ian said…
If he can’t he harms the entire industry and he should get out. Same goes to you.
Can you state how exactly he harms the industry? As I said, that the farmer only harms himself (financially) and not the industry. And who the hell are you to decide that the farmer should get out of the industry? Is fontera your family business that you’re going to stop trading with this farmer?
Look I ‘ll eat dogs whenever it is available to me? It is not prohibited by law, so your concern about such practice is none of your business at all. I don’t violate your rights if I eat dog meat. Besides eating dog meat will enhance the capability of the neurons in your brain to capture, store and retrieve information. That’s one reason I sometimes eat dog meat because it enhances my ability to decipher complex physics equation easily. I suggest you do the same if you wish to enhance your IQ.
September 28th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
Suzie, I suppose the farmer you got them off had not let them have enough colostrum before selling them to you. Just get rid of the calves ASP and get the milk into the vat. Gota get the MONEY!!!!Money, Money, Money.
September 28th, 2009 at 10:55 pm
Chris-J: It seems to have escaped your attention but there is a common theme as to whom BH in your words ‘discredits’. That theme is DEBT.
All these so-called hard working individuals you laud (the farmers such as the Crafers, the finance comapany execs, the property developers), all rely on excessive borrowing and over-leveraging. No great skill, no great ‘hard work’, just the misinvestment of ‘easy money’. Personally if it ended there I wouldn’t be much bothered by their antics. However, it invariably doesn’t, because when it all goes t++ts up its the collateral damage they cause that hurts the rest of us. The taxpayer ultimately picks up the bill.
Bob – your arguement is a strawman – you have to do better than that.
September 28th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
@Bob, it’s not just about how many die, but how they die and what has led to the way they die – for instance, unnecessarily cruel deaths caused by neglect, deliberate or otherwise – is unacceptable.
September 28th, 2009 at 11:07 pm
@Bob. It’s not a question of quantifying what is or is not acceptable in terms of numbers of stock deaths. It’s to do with what is acceptable and unacceptable practice. Each farmer must make up his or her own mind about this but he/she must realise that those decisions affect others – in spite of what some people say here. Gross cruelty should never be acceptable and I would say that it isn’t to most farmers in this country. I personally am alarmed at some of the bad practices that are creeping into this country. I was brought up on farms throughout NZ and socialised with people in the rural community for years from the time I was a kid. I saw many cases where animals died, were injured and were killed but I never saw any of this type of behaviour that has crept into our farming community in recent years. Generally farmers looked after their animals and treated them well. They realised that they owed them their livelihood.
September 28th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
Falafulu Fisi you said – ”Can you state how exactly he harms the industry? As I said, that the farmer only harms himself (financially) and not the industry”.
OK, will try and run this one past you again – just for your benefit
1) NZ farmer A (Mr Crafer) is seen to be mistreating his animals. This focuses attention on neglect in NZ farms.
2) Story about Farmer A (and others) is picked up by media in US and Europe (big export markets for NZ dairy produce). Unsurprisingly the farmers over there (our competitors) have a field day and very soon articles in the press etc reduce NZ previous clean green image for its produce to the gutter.
3) As a consequence Europeans and Americans no longer buy as much NZ butter etc.
4) Farmers B,C and D in NZ now go bust.
Now do you get it?
September 28th, 2009 at 11:10 pm
@Falafulu Fisi. What can I say …. ? It scares me that you may be in the NZ agri industry man …
September 28th, 2009 at 11:12 pm
OK Jacko, so what is an unnecessary death? In years past we would let the cat die or ask the vet to put it down. Now, with new techniques, we spend hundreds of dollars on x-rays, operations, treatments etc and the cat survives to a far greater age. All those treatments are available for cows and calves also, but how much should a farmer spend? Every farmer must make those decisions about “welfare” versus the need to run a profitable farm. Sometimes those decisions complement each other and sometimes they conflict. I know that many of you seem to think this is all about money rather than welfare but if the farm is not profitable then it is out of business. I am not defending Crafars. I am just asking you to realise that farming has some judgement calls. I am going further than that and asking you to make a judgement call as to where acceptable crosses to unacceptable. So far you and most of the other posters here reject the need to do that. But life does not allow farmers to ignore that. Give them your wisdom as to where the line is.
September 28th, 2009 at 11:19 pm
To all,
Many thanks for all the insightful comments and reaction.
A reminder to all to keep comments respectful and to think twice before posting anything that might be considered defamatory or abusive.
Cheers
Bernard Hickey
September 28th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
Falafulu Fisi says ” …The animals are his to look after…..He doesn’t owe his animals anything, he only owes everything to himself…” I say owners of animals and those looking after them owe it to those animals to not treat them cruelly. Allowing calves to starve to death is cruelty. And concern at it happening is not “almost maudlin”.
September 28th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
Well said Bernard.
It is a very emotional topic because it involves animal cruelty which is an anathema to most New Zealanders. It also involves greed by financial institutions and big business, and bureaucratic incompetence, which together make an explosive combination.
Personally I think the contributions of everyone has been good – even if i haven’t agreed with them all.
It’s going to be interesting to watch this story as it gets legs and to see how it unfolds. I’m holding my breath and hope that it doesn’t cause too many problems for the industry and for the country.
September 28th, 2009 at 11:28 pm
I have worked around Dairy Farms as an Engineer and have seen many calves when they get sick they are just left to die not put to sleep , if they were Kittens or Puppys the owner would be prosecuted by SPCA and it would be all over the News .
But because it’s Farming it’s Ok ! Yeah Right No it’s not . I have seen a Cow who was so sick she lay Dying in the Lane way close to the shed all the 650Plus milking cow’s had to walk past her 4 times a day coming and going to Milking’s , many of them stopped to sniff her as she took several days to Die . The farmer could have carted her away with the farm loader to die in piece or to shoot her , instead of stressing all the other cows . This isn’t an isolated insident as I’ve seen it many time’s before in feed Paddocks or Creeks the cows some times get grass staggers or Nitrogen posioning or are just poorly feed with over numbers and lack of feed in a cold/wet season .
It’s a Shame on the Dairy industry as a Whole because it’s not just a few Farms .
Come on MAF you know its a problem and
saying you don’t have the resources is BULL SH-T ! Karl 150
September 28th, 2009 at 11:31 pm
if you have 22 fames why couldnt you transport feed from another farm over to that farm.
September 28th, 2009 at 11:31 pm
@Bob -to kill an animal cleanly if you are not prepared to maintain it is acceptable. To knowingly allow suffering of an animal because you are not prepared to maintain it is not.
I personally like the way Terry Pratchett said it
‘We are as gods to the beasts of the field….We order the time of their birth and the time of their death. Between times, we have a duty’
A duty not to cause needless pain, fear or suffering.
September 28th, 2009 at 11:35 pm
Good Bernhard to bring this story to our attention. For a long time I thought there is less corruption here in ”green, clean” New Zealand – but I’m learning every day. Don’t let greed and stupidity take it’s course – I think Nature in general does need more support/ protection from the public, honest lawyers and politicians.
Next to hardly any other industries- Agriculture, Real Estate are far too big for New Zealand and not sustainable.
To explain this in other words: A nation, having only a few major industry pillars cannot reach up. PLANNING and building first more steps (segments of industries) is essential. This create platforms and natural growth occurs from there allowing to build higher steps – reaching higher ground and make as wealthier.
Two examples: How can the farming industry prosper, when most daily used equipments/ technology have to be imported ? How do we travel to work when petrol prices increase to $3.- $4.- p/litre ? The Primary sector of our economy doesn’t survive without solid and well balanced secondary sector industries. Manufacturing/ production has to become a must or we getting poorer and will be forced to reduce our expectations as a nation in many ways. The current story isn’t the only one pointing in that direction. I’m worried real money creation in NZ isn’t happening.
Cheers Walter
September 28th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
Gail M
Greate quote, those few lines say more than all our combined postings, thanks.
September 28th, 2009 at 11:41 pm
Why is it that the complainant never mentioned this concern to management at all. If it was an animal welfare issue and not a discretionary persecution to further public momentum on the Crafar Group, how could this complainant never mention at all to management the concern of calf welfare.
The actions of the complainant has to be addressed with more scrutiny.
Bad press does sell! The crafars are persecuted souls who have been farming for years and yet to overcome many more misfortunes! Farming isn’t easy! So tell me why is Mark Sainsbury running this story? Is it to increase their ratings?
The video clipping has been set up to look like an act of cruelty, there were also glimsical clips of happy healthy calves among ill calves, there also were scenes of spilt milk as well as aftermath of few prior bad wet days. The actions of the cast seemed inhumane as neither the camera person or the complainant attempted to feed them.
Is this a bitter act of public nostalgia issues behind the smokescreen of anmial walfare issues?
1080 is plastered everywhere, killing native and wild animals…now that is deliberate. Stategising to cope with a high influx of calving in a short period, yes, well… that is something to figure out!
September 28th, 2009 at 11:45 pm
Healthy Soils Equal’s Water Health The Great Carbon Con
We are having the Carbon pulled over our eyes. Is the Climate change due to Carbon or are there other more sinister gases which we breath that are causing Global Warming . Google what’s in the air we breath .We all breath in : Argon 0.93%, Oxygen 20.95%,Nitrogen @ 78.08% and Carbon dioxide @ only 0.038% such a small amount !
So I ask the Question Carbon at so low a rate .038% why is this being targeted as the Source of all the Worlds problems . Look at Nitrogen 78.08% and a Green house GAS 310 times worse than CO2 and our intensified Farming practices are pouring on 10,000’s kg of Nitrogen per year on to pasture that doesn’t need it or either can’t coup with it so that over 50% of applied N ends up in the Air we Breath as Nitrous oxide and the rest passes through our over supplied soils as Nitrates into our Water ways which we Drink.
When the soil is over supplied with Nitrogen Nature Shuts Down and doesn’t do it’s job , Earth Worms die off and Bacteria changes when we loose EARTH Worms we end up with Very HIGH Counts of E-Coli in out Drinking Water and Food Chain . Lack of Large Colonies of Healthy Earth Worm’s Means Fertilisers get Locked up in the Soil so Farmers keep needing to pore more on to get, the same results as what Nature can give them for far Less Cost or Pollution . Earth Worm Cast’s gives your Pasture 7 Times more soil Nutrients than Chemical Fertilisers can .
Other sources of Nitrous Oxide are also coming from burning of Auto Fuel’s in car’s etc, at what figure is this happening ?
I want to know is Nitrous Oxide coming from the burning of Fossil Fuels greater than CO2 ?
Wake up (is it Carbon) which is doing the Deed to our Climate or is it the Chemical Industries feeding our Farmers the Poison’s of there Mind’s . Nature doesn’t need all this added Nitrogen and Super Phosphates Acid based Fertilisers ,which Won’t Grow Healthy Soils and Crop’s or Live Stock !
Healthy Soils will store (Sink) 3 Times more Carbon than the Atmosphere can .
So Why are We Letting them do it ? Karl150
September 28th, 2009 at 11:47 pm
Andy said…
1) NZ farmer A (Mr Crafer) is seen to be mistreating his animals. This focuses attention on neglect in NZ farms.
2) Story about Farmer A (and others) is picked up by media in US and Europe (big export markets for NZ dairy produce). Unsurprisingly the farmers over there (our competitors) have a field day and very soon articles in the press etc reduce NZ previous clean green image for its produce to the gutter.
3) As a consequence Europeans and Americans no longer buy as much NZ butter etc.
4) Farmers B,C and D in NZ now go bust.
Has any of those scenarios happened before? Can you cite an example (preferably a link) of something similar that has happened in the past somewhere? Again, cite an example, that has shown to cause a huge damage in similar industry overseas or locally. The only huge damage that occurred in recent years was the boycott of Dannish dairy products in the middle east, not because of animal negligence but because of some religious issues relating to some newspaper cartoon.
The majority of commentators here condemned the farmer for his negligence and not for the potential market reputation damage and that’s including your own comment above? Look, the industry will deal with it, perhaps Fontera could threaten to stop trading with this farmer, but this is not a concern of yours nor me , even if you’re a farmer yourself.
I am defending the rights of the farmer to enjoy his OWN property. The market place will punish him and not dogooders such as you. If you or any other commentators are so worried, then why not turn up at this farm to help? After all, you’re the one who is so concerned about the welfare of the animals more than the farmer himself. Can you help out the concerned farmer here? I think that you should.
September 28th, 2009 at 11:51 pm
This is the tip of the iceberg unless it is brought under control very quickly. Crafar is talking about selling a sizeable chunk of NZ to Chinese interests. If Fonterra get their way a lot more will finish up in foreign ownership. I am not xenophobic but have you ever heard of the album by Genesis called “Selling England by the Pound”? This country will go the same way unless this is sorted.
September 28th, 2009 at 11:53 pm
We all believe we act humanely. Psychologists carried out an experiment. They asked monks who had taken an oath to serve their fellow man to cross a courtyard. In the courtyard was a sick man asking for help. Most of the monks stopped to help. As a further experiment other monks of the same institution were asked to cross the courtyard but, this time, to an urgent meeting. This time few of the monks stopped to help. Relevance. Most of you are sitting in front of your computer making judgements on what you think others should or should not do. Most of us agree with you. However, life out there is different to that small world of the screen in front of you. When did you last walk past a beggar in the street without assisting him? Or stop your car to assist some on the side of the road. You are not perfect. Neither are farmers. Sometimes they do things you think are cruel. Sometimes you do things which others would think is uncaring to your fellow man. So, what is reasonable? Most of you seem unwilling to address that as it is far easier to espouse principle. OK, so if you are not prepared to state what is reasonable then how do I know if you recognise the realities of the world?
September 28th, 2009 at 11:57 pm
In the past far too many people looked at numbers and bottom line when investing. Investors are starting to wise up, and realise issues like this are a sign of bigger (expensive) problems. Many investors would see this behaviour as completely unacceptable.
If this was a public company, these issues would not be tolerated, funding would be close to impossible, and management would be sacked by the shareholders.
As this is a private company it appears the same public scrutiny is not allowed. However, I don’t believe this should be the case, people (and the market) could easily stop funding if they were aware of these details.
It should be as simple as this:
If people invested in the same financing company that lends to a negligent company, these people should pull my money from the financing company for several reasons:
* Running a business like this is financially damaging to the industry (costly to other investments).
* The financing company is likely to make a loss on the loan.
* The financing company clearly has poor judgement
(what is the quality of the rest of their loan book like)
The issue is transparency/disclosure of this information, however with the internet sometimes this information finds its way to becoming public… for the good of the environment/people/country…
September 29th, 2009 at 12:14 am
Margo says
Falafulu Fisi Says:
Can you state how exactly he harms the industry? As I said, that the farmer only harms himself (financially) and not the industry. And who the hell are you to decide that the farmer should get out of the industry? Is fontera your family business that you’re going to stop trading with this farmer?
Look I ‘ll eat dogs whenever it is available to me? It is not prohibited by law, so your concern about such practice is none of your business at all. I don’t violate your rights if I eat dog meat. Besides eating dog meat will enhance the capability of the neurons in your brain to capture, store and retrieve information. That’s one reason I sometimes eat dog meat because it enhances my ability to decipher complex physics equation easily. I suggest you do the same if you wish to enhance your IQ.
look I eat dog meat whenever it is available – would be better grammar – and IF you can’t get your head around why the Crafar Family are doing so much damage to New Zealand’s clean green image then obviously your consumption of dog meat isn’t enhancing your IQ .
Jacko Says:
@Bob, it’s not just about how many die, but how they die and what has led to the way they die – for instance, unnecessarily
Ufortunately many including some of those on the land don’t seem to get it.
GAIL M says
We are as gods to the beasts of the field….We order the time of their birth and the time of their death. Between times, we have a duty’ A very apt observation
Albeit reading all this blog has been difficult for me (as an animal lover ) I have felt compellled to keep reading and am heartened by the many sane bloggers who do display genuine compassion foir the plight of these mistreated animals, unfortunate victims of greed.
September 29th, 2009 at 12:16 am
Some of the comments do not fit into an image of a modern society of the 21 century, but are rather of the “Firestone episode” – part of an evolutionary still- stand -and there is no excuse for that.
The greatness of a nation and its moral process can be judged how its animals are treated. M Ghandi
September 29th, 2009 at 12:23 am
I forgot to say, congratulations for having the balls to highlight this issue. Something our so called media have consistently failed to do. (real investigative journalism instead of soundbites and wire stories.)
September 29th, 2009 at 12:46 am
Margo said…
IF you can’t get your head around why the Crafar Family are doing so much damage to New Zealand’s clean green image
Margo, it is you that needs to get your head around the issue here. Start from primary as of the concept of rights, then everything else is secondary. Crafar doesn’t run his business in order to protect some or conform to some green image. His life is to answer to his own, not to adhere to some expectations from animal lovers such as yourself. Crafar never violated your rights and that is the issue that I am defending here. Stop being a hypocrite, if you’re so concerned then you should drive down there to Mr. Crafar’s farm and give him a hand, since you love animal so much. Practice what you preach and if you can’t, then stop trying to pass moral judgment on others who never done damage to you, because Mr. Crafar doesn’t sit there at his farm and try to pass judgment on you nor me. He gets on with running his own business.
September 29th, 2009 at 1:23 am
I guess you can dress this up anyway you like…. bottom line it is “animal cruelity”.
A few months back I decided as a aconsumer not to buy pork again as a direct result of the disgusting state that pigs are housed in.
Within the past week I had decided not to purchase anymore meat for our family.
Now milk is also off the list. I nor my family will be a part of these cruel practises inflicked on animals any longer.
We will in future eat fish and drink Soy milk.
If you think that we are just one family who thinks this way >>>>think again.
Consumers in large numbers are becoming fed up with the cruelity and will no longer turn a blind eye to these practises that are becoming more prevalent and nastier as time goes on .
Money talks but so does the consumers backlash.
September 29th, 2009 at 5:04 am
Bryan : Are you taking this up with the NZ Police ? The farm manager ( Sam Webb ) assaulted you . His bellicose reaction to Bernard and you , seems symbolic of the dysfunctional nature of the Crafars and their staff . Maybe this is symptomatic of a business that out-grew it’s founder . As expansion continued , Alan Crafar did not employ professional business people in key roles , but drifted himself up , to exceed the level of his own competence .
Truely sad to see that some people ( a minority ) feel that animals have no rights . When it is patently obvious that they are in our care , and at our mercy . We’re in the 21 ’st century , yet some still maintain a brutish 18 ‘th century mentality .
No Roger, I would rather focus on making money and spending time with my son than sitting in Taupo District Court
September 29th, 2009 at 5:27 am
As a side note, this is an impressive argument for the power of investigative journalism driven by motivated bloggers. I’m impressed by Interest.co.nz’s work here, and I hope that their advertisers take good note of the traffic and attention generated. New Zealand and the internet needs more work like this.
September 29th, 2009 at 7:04 am
Good on you garry .i suggest before people judge agriculture and the crafers they do a bit more homework.Do the do gooders sitting on there we chairs in front of there cute little computers realize the damage a report like this can do to the dairy industry and the country as a whole I guess the general public dont realise the country makes or breaks on this industry. The situation on the crafer farm is unacceptable so the selution is to push Alan into the ground til he becomes cuacidal .What about we focus on one of his other farms that is going well and give him some support and let the athorities sort this out.The Crafers have converted most of there farms from sheep to dairying which has injected millions of dollars into peoples pockets and the economy.
That reporter is very very lucky sam webb didnt get a hold of him properly or he would not be talking on television. Keep your head up Alan
September 29th, 2009 at 7:10 am
@garry: “he typifies what it is to be a kiwi, honest, hard working, ambitious”
really? then I wouldnt want to be a kiwi if he is a kiwi, fortunately it isnt. Instead he seems to typify the very worst; un-caring polluter, no8 bailing wire mentality, poor health and safety, little regard for the environment, law or NZ as a whole, poor of non-existant management skills both financial and man, willing to let others hang for him (the recent effulent case points to that) and I cant see much evidence he’s even a good farmer. To get the money out of the banks though he must be a good/natural salesman and interestingly that isnt unusual for “CEOs” who’s company gets in a mess like this….caviler sums him up well it seems.
@Bernard, Brian and team, Good on you, this had gone on long enough and far enough that writing this in the hope of correcting it is probably about the only sane avenue left. MAF obviously were not going to do a thing, ditto Fontera….the only way to stop this fiasco is to shame them all publically and get Qs asked in Parliment…then the animals stop suffering…then the competent farmers out there can hold their heads up high as for what they are, good farmers that uphold what being a kiwi really is.
regards
September 29th, 2009 at 7:16 am
@Alan Maxwell, hiding and continuing to hide this would be a disaster….yes it damages NZ, a little, but what it does show is NZers are prepared to look after their own nest and fix the issues….The crafers need to go bankrupt, the land sold at a price that is sustainable for the incomes to competant farmers who will look after it properly….
They havnt injected millions into the economy, they have taken millions out in debt which someone loses or someone else has to repay….with interest…
regards
September 29th, 2009 at 7:33 am
Bernard, this whole Crafar saga goes to show you how poor are our standards and education of company directors is.
Crafar is out of his depth when he claims that he is not responsible and accountable for his staff’s actions. Why, because he has never been trained to be a company director.
He is right out of his depth with his large operation and I expect this outfit will have more horrific failiures in coming months.
It is about time the Crafar’s bankers hired some professional help for this operation, otherwise by June next year it will be worth nothing.
September 29th, 2009 at 7:34 am
Alan Maxwell,
How can Crafer keep his head up when it is in the sand?
In fact he should be hiding it in shame
The “do gooders” sitting in front of their computers are the buyers of the dairy products .
The problem here is that some people who supply these products are not the do gooders in fact they are the “cruel bastards” that need to brush up their act.
Anything for a profit even going as far as starving baby animals to death.
It’s sick, sick sick and will cost the industry dearly.
September 29th, 2009 at 7:44 am
Well done Bernard and team for opening up this can of worms…I’m sure it took a lot of bulls (sorry!) Slightly off track for you to focus on this kind of investigative reporting so am assuming your recent interest in the dairy
industry stems from an economic aspect? Isn’t it sad how greed and desperation drive people to such inhumane behavior.
September 29th, 2009 at 7:46 am
The New Zealand dollar’s 45% rally in the past six months may falter amid speculation higher-yielding currencies and equity markets have run too hard, stretching valuations.
Five of eight economists and strategists in a BusinessWire survey predict the kiwi dollar will trade in its current range this week, after outperforming since its sub-50 US cents low in March. The three remaining analysts have a neutral outlook on the currency, but lean towards the downside.
Investors piled into higher-yielding, or riskier, assets when the prospect of a global depression dimmed amid extraordinary fiscal and monetary measures by policy makers worldwide.
The kiwi dollar has been a favourite for the carry trade, with its fortunes rising on upbeat economic data and rallying equity markets. It recently traded at 72 US cents from 71.90 cents on Friday in New York.
“Fundamentally, the economy is looking pretty damn good,” said Imre Speizer, markets strategist at Westpac Banking Corp. Still, “there are more signals that the rally since February/March is fairly ripe and heading for a correction.”
Speizer has a neutral outlook with a negative bias on the currency this week, and expects the kiwi to ease if it closes below 71.60 US cents in the New York trading session.
The key domestic data release this week is the National Bank Business Outlook, a survey of firms’ expectations around the economy that has a close correlation with the Quarterly Survey of Business Opinion followed by the central bank. Economists predict it will continue to show improving confidence.
Robin Clements, economist at UBS NZ, said the market is “looking for an excuse to sell the currency,” but the currency will probably remain range-bound this week as stronger economic sentiment boosts the kiwi dollar’s fortunes.
“Business confidence is likely to keep improving, which should be supportive of the kiwi,” Clements said.
The main driver of the currency this week will be a slew of data from the US and Europe, in particular the latest non-farm payroll numbers in America. The jobless rate in the world’s largest economy probably climbed to a 26-year-high 9.8% this month, from 9.7% in August, according to a Bloomberg survey.
The number of Americans seeking unemployment benefits fell to a two-month low, according to the Labor Department. The number of claims unexpectedly declined to 530,000 from 551,000 in the previous week.
The other major data release from the US that could influence the kiwi is September’s ISM manufacturing index out on Thursday in America, according to Deutsche Bank chief economist Darren Gibbs.
The market predicts the index will rise to 54 from 52.9 the previous month, and Gibbs said it may reduce appetite for risk down if it comes in weaker than expected. He predicts the kiwi will trade between 71 US cents and 73 cents this week.
Reserve Bank of Australia Governor Stevens told the Senate today that normal policy settings should resume once the “recovery phase” is in place, and that rates will be hiked “ahead of a build-up of imbalances that would occur if interest rates were kept low for too long.”
The kiwi dollar rose to 83.16 Australian cents from 82.76 cents on Friday in New York. Australia is New Zealand’s biggest trading partner. Stevens’ opening statement to Australian policy makers follows comments from Federal Reserve Governor Kevin Warsh, who said a policy turnaround in the US could be greater than usual due to the pick-up in the world’s largest economy.
Six of eight strategists in the BusinessWire survey predict the currency will stay in a range on a trade-weighted basis. One predicts it has a bias towards declining, and one other expects it to fall.
The currency was little changed at 65.59 on the trade-weighted index, a measure of the kiwi against the Australian dollar, greenback, yen, euro and pound, from 65.55 on Friday in New York.
Japan’s Finance Minister Hirohisa Fujii told reporters at the Group of 20 Nations leaders’ summit in Pittsburgh that his government was comfortable with the yen’s strength, and wouldn’t intervene in the currency. At the same time, Japanese fund managers are repatriating their money as the September quarter comes to a close and they prepare to reassess their positioning.
The kiwi sank to 64.05 yen from 65.09 yen on Friday in New York.
The pound has extended its losses after Bank of England Governor Mervyn King last week announced he was happy with a weaker currency stoking demand for British exports. The kiwi climbed to a new 13-year high of 45.37 pence from 44.88 pence on Friday in New York, and edged higher to 49.05 euro cents from 48.97 cents. The Australian dollar advanced to 54.50 pence from 54.22 pence.
The major data releases this week include second quarter gross domestic product data from the US and the UK, and the European Commission’s consumer and economic confidence surveys.
Locally, Statistics New Zealand will release new building permits for August on Tuesday, while Australia’s retail sales for last month come out on Wednesday
STAY ON WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT
September 29th, 2009 at 7:47 am
What will do NZ’s reputation more damage 1) the world, our customers, knowing about incidents and practice like that exposed and knowing we are dealing with it, or, 2) knowing that we know, yet deny a problem exists, we will sweep things under the carpet and carry on regardless – an approach seemingly implied by some here, who for whatever reason (excuse) are justifying negligence, cruelty and poor management practice – the likes of which we would (should) not want to find in a civilised first world country?
@steven, “good/natural salesman”, how about unthinking, irresponsible lenders and receivers of the product?
@Bernard, points well made to Wendy Petrie on TV1 this morning – keep it up.
I note this isn’t on The Herald website and neither is it on The Press website? Funny that.
September 29th, 2009 at 8:06 am
One of my many suggestions to Alan Maxwell 7.04am, would be to spell the Crafar name rightly if he going to support the man. I recall Bernard being roundly critisized last week for getting the name wrong, just once. And as for advocating further violence; what an oaf.
September 29th, 2009 at 8:11 am
This message is for bernard hickey. Could you please contact me, re; problems with large scale farming in nz and officials ie; spca and maf taking no action.
September 29th, 2009 at 8:24 am
Cathy, I think that you should campaign to ban killing of animals (by law) for the purpose of consumption all together, after all, killing animals for that purpose is more cruel than negligence, don’t you think?
September 29th, 2009 at 8:28 am
“Ecomaori”
You take that handle to get us opposed to anybody “eco” or “maori”?
Do you think we’re stupid?
September 29th, 2009 at 8:30 am
Apparently the Crafers were stuck with another $90,000 fine just last Friday:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/2911923/Fonterra-warning-on-dirty-dairying-penalties
Fonterra seem way behind the curve on this one:
“”Fonterra Co-operative Group has called on its farmers to “be vigilant” around their on-farm effluent resource consent and regional plan-rules compliance.
Farmers should seek immediate advice if they are facing compliance difficulties, said Fonterra’s general manager of sustainable production, John Hutchings”"
September 29th, 2009 at 8:34 am
@Jan “Within the past week I had decided not to purchase anymore meat for our family.”
Sadly that just means that the good farmers also miss out. I was vegetarian for 18 years but I’ve recently started to try to eat local food. I’m being careful about what I eat and looking into who is producing it. There are some good local, free range pork producers, good free range chicken producers and there must be others, we simply don’t know enough about them. For Canterbury I’m trying to put them together on a site http://www.roundthecorner.co.nz.
I believe Klondyke is a local alternative to fonterra here in Canterbury. I don’t know much and haven’t heard back from an email to them earlier this week (perhaps they’re busy out looking after their animals – I can hope).
September 29th, 2009 at 8:35 am
And to david……
The rise and fall of the Crafars is WAY more interesting than current forex developments…
There are plenty of other threads if you want to discuss $NZD.
Congratulations Bernard, this is a quality news scoop and an exposure that the NZ public needed to see and hear.
We need more dairy farmers to condemn the Crafars….. I know there are good farmers out there but your voice needs to be heard.
September 29th, 2009 at 8:41 am
To Ray,
Yes the rise of the Boys . they have done well to get where they are to day.
Alot more than some of you guys.
September 29th, 2009 at 8:43 am
Until the MAF start doing their job and prosecuting people for mistreating animals it will go on and on. A $200 dollar fine? Are you kidding me?? NZ MAF needs to pull their head out and start doing their job! Crafar should not be allowed to have any animals in his possession! The bastard even admitted to 56 counts of animal neglect and cruelty! MAF is a joke! What the hell is wrong with people? This man makes money off of animal suffering! I hope he rots in hell!! May he be cursed with a life of suffering!
September 29th, 2009 at 8:53 am
Margo Says
Falafulu Fisi Says: to adhere to some expectations from animal lovers such as yourself. Crafar never violated your rights and that is the issue that I am defending here. Stop being a hypocrite, if you’re so concerned then you should drive down there to Mr. Crafar’s farm and give him a hand, since you love animal so much. Practice what you preach and if you can’t, then stop trying to pass moral judgment on others who never done damage to you, because Mr. Crafar doesn’t sit there at his farm and try to pass judgment on you nor me He gets on with running his own busines
Yes and it is how he operates his business that so disturbs myself and the many other intelligent bloggers on this site. By supporting the animals who have no voice hardly defiines me as a hyprocite ??? and as for visiting Crafars what good would this do as he is in a state of denail anyway. His only regret is that his cruel practises have been highlighted. Actually you are quite wrong when you perceive he has not done anyone else including myself any harm as it is quite apparent from the tone of the majority who have submitted to this site that it is not only me who feels sad & disgusted. Finally quite difficult to drive down to Crafars when I reside in the South Island but then it seems you are very prone to making unsubstantiated assumptions, Maybe you need to up your dog meat consumption to assist with the correct use of practice and practise…
September 29th, 2009 at 8:53 am
Dawn said…
This man makes money off of animal suffering!
Wrong. He makes his money by minding his own business and at worst he makes most of his money by killing those animals for their meat. Don’t you find that disgusting (ie, the killings) ? If not, then why not?
September 29th, 2009 at 8:54 am
This is obscene! How can MAF let these guys get away with this? What a sick joke.
Absolutely disgusted!!
September 29th, 2009 at 8:56 am
There needs to be a Royal Commission of Inquiry into the entire dairying industry(including all govt depts), with unlimited powers to search for the whole truth. This is not a matter than can be left to a blog site, or swept under the carpet by a poodle media, or dismissed as a one off event by a govt.
September 29th, 2009 at 8:56 am
At last some journalistic endeavour worthy of the name.
Why didn’t Close-up give a better background on this lunatic and the Banks that gave him the money to get himself in so much shit?
Westpac, Fonterra and MAF… it’s time to stand up and take action. NOW. Westpac, appoint a freaking receiver to manage the property, Fonterra step up and put some competent management in there, MAF monitor the bloody thing to make sure it works.
Don’t sit on your arses like you did with Sanlu.
September 29th, 2009 at 9:01 am
I work in a related industry and have been waiting for something to come out of this nature this calving season. It’s an economic decision for the farmers. The farmers have 2 options, shoot them or pay the costs. With the number of calves born around the country running into hundreds of thousands, probably millions, it’s a huge problem for the dairy farmers this season. The works are paying very little for bobby calves. Last year skin prices were reasonable, and that is where the works made money of the calves. The veal yield is only around 7kg so there is very little money in that.
The farmers have to feed the calves for 4 days to get them to a “truckable” state. The money they are receiving this season from the works/petfood operators is less than the cost of keeping them alive for 4 days. When the dairy payout has declined so much for the farmers, cull calves are just another cost that they don’t need. The Craffers don’t have the heart to shoot them, hence the problem of suffering to death.
Some of the slinky operators aren’t even collecting dead calves as there is no money in the skins this season which creates another problem. These calves have to go somewhere, which one can assume is down a hole. I wonder how much water contamination will eventuate with all the leaching of dead animals?
September 29th, 2009 at 9:02 am
david-
They have done well to get where they are?
You mean bankrupt?
Or displaying farming incompetence the likes of which have nver been seen in NZ?
September 29th, 2009 at 9:09 am
Margo said…
Yes and it is how he operates his business that so disturbs myself and the many other intelligent bloggers on this site.
Yes, I wouldn’t do what Alan’s managements did, in this case to the animals, but I have no rights whatsoever to condemn the man for his actions, since he never hurt me. He never violated my rights one single iota. Intelligent bloggers? Ok fine. Now, I can point you out to something to read, and perhaps it will open you up to use reason. It should be easy to comprehend because you’re all intelligent bloggers.
Animal Rights and Vegetarianism
Now, try to refute the points highlighted in that short article, again with a reasoned argument and not reverting to pointless reference to cultural superiority. Reason & Logic.
Finally, my previous comment about enhanced neuron capability to store, capture and retrieve info by eating dog meat was a sarcasm, if you didn’t see it. It was a reply to Ian, which he brought up an issue that was unrelated to the topic of discussion and I knew exactly the angle that he was coming from.
September 29th, 2009 at 9:14 am
Craig, the public think milk comes from a plastic container! By and large there is no understanding that calves are part of the process by which they get the milk for their kornies or coffee. The free range egg brigade will latch onto this like limpets on a rock, after they have had their kornies and coffee. What happens to calves is set to be issue number one and I don’t fancy being the politician who gets a gallon of rotting milk dropped on them, so maybe the govt should stop pissing about and start with the action, like bloody quickly.
September 29th, 2009 at 9:16 am
Crafar ’shocked by calves mistreatment’.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/farming/2912101/Allan-Crafar-shocked-by-calves-mistreatment
Yeah right. If any of the calves could have run for it he would now be busily bolting the stable door after them.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10600219
September 29th, 2009 at 9:24 am
Well done BH & co.
I’m embarrassed to see this type of thing going on in a country that we so readily promote as clean and green. I have no doubt that the companies who compete with Fonterra’s buyers will jump on this. IMO the best way to deal with it is for Fonterra to stand up, say that they were wrong, and drop these clowns from their collection. Any less sends the message that it is acceptable practice. I love NZ, but I for one am stating that I won’t be buying Fonterra products (knowingly) till this is sorted out properly. That includes Anchor, Mainland, and Tip Top. I don’t know if this sort of poor farming practice goes on in other countries or not, but that’s no excuse. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Stand up and be counted Fonterra.
September 29th, 2009 at 9:26 am
This is absolutely disgusting. If they can’t run their business profitably without looking after the environment and the welfare of their animals then they should not be in business.
I run a web site development business in Christchurch, imagine if the only way I could run my business profitably was to dump loads of chemicals on the side of the road. Could I argue “I have to do it to stay in business!”… I don’t think so.
September 29th, 2009 at 9:29 am
@Falafulu – “but I have no rights whatsoever to condemn the man for his actions, since he never hurt me. He never violated my rights one single iota.”
This is not about “rights”, this is about the law. Crafar is a director of Crafar Farms, he is responsible.
September 29th, 2009 at 9:32 am
Firstly to the ninny who claims letting animals die of negligence is less harmful and morally reprehensible than killing them for meat, I ask would you personally rather die slowly of hunger and thirst, even perhaps tangled in a fence so badly that your leg rotted off before you die or would you rather go out somewhat quicker, less obviously inevitable, and a lot more painlessly?
Fool! Another pretending ponce.
As for the debate about the dairy industry; the only thing that surprises me about this is that even though it has taken two decades to stir NZers from their deliberate ignorance of what really happens down on the dairy farm, given their claim of a love for watersports and fishing etc, when Maori ask who owns the coastline.
You see I can’t understand why NZers are so complacent about their creeks and rivers, over 90 % of which have been rendered unusable by humans because they are overflowing with cowshit and superphosphate. Isn’t that a bigger issue than the tenuous notion of ‘ownership’?
Surely if kiwis felt so strongly about this stuff they would get upset at the way our inland waterways have been annihilated by the twin evils of dairy farming and mass tourism.
I may as well get a shot in now because we already know from the great pig torture debate than kiwis will stay upset about this for about two weeks before returning to their previous state of somnolent ennui.
After all, if all of that cholesterol impregnated dairy fat isn’t sold to the fools overseas, they’ll never be able to keep up the vig on their leaky cardboard box until they can sell it to a chinaman or jaapie migrant and get out themselves, now will they?
I don’t know what has happened to this society. I have been back here just over 10 years and I thought things were bad when I got back but since then the unmitigated greed, uncaring attitudes towards fellow humans and determination to sell off anything including our once vaunted health and education systems has increased, gotten worse, not better.
This isn’t only greedy it’s damn stupid. In the light of that madness it’s hardly surprising that at least some kiwis (sure many of the proponents are blow ins, carpet baggers who came here to make a buck and will move on, but there are kiwis in there too) think it is perfectly fine to destroy the country for generations to come, just to make a couple of extra dollars now.
The fact that the strongest argument most use, against the pollution and animal torture that is dairy farming, is potential destruction of our clean green image, says it all really.
How about not doing it because it’s wrong and will destroy this part of the world we have temporary custody of, for many more years than any of us will live? When does that notion ‘get a run’?
September 29th, 2009 at 9:34 am
Trev, in what law that allowed Bernard and Bryan to enter this farmer’s property, uninvited? You would react angrily to someone entering your property uninvited wouldn’t you?
September 29th, 2009 at 9:36 am
Excellent work Bernard is disclosing this issue. As usual, you have the insight and courage to address some key issues facing NZ.
The Crafars are a failure, both as farmers and as a business. Their environmental, animal welfare and farming practices are appalling.
However, we must remember that they are not representative of NZ farming in total. There are many NZ farmers who are world leading in environmental practices and animal welfare.
What this does highlight is the failure of Fonterra, and given their government legislated monoply position in NZ, this is a concern for NZ dairy in total.
Since formation, Fonterra has been driven by a race to the bottom. It’s business model has focused on increasing production of low value commodities at all cost and on driving debt-fueled unsustainable capital gains, over income yields. The fact is that NZ has limited land mass and has environmental constraints, we should be focused not on producing more and more low-value milk powder but instead moving up the value chain to produce high quality, environentally friendly products on the basis of clean, green, ethical farming. That is where the money and the future is!!!! We will never be able to compete with countries in Sth America is terms of low-cost production and land mass so lets lift our game. Despite all the propoganda, the collaspe of the payout is the proof that after 8 years Fonterra is still a low-end commodity producer.
September 29th, 2009 at 9:44 am
JasGeo said…
I ask would you personally rather die slowly of hunger and thirst, even perhaps tangled in a fence so badly that your leg rotted off before you die or would you rather go out somewhat quicker, less obviously inevitable, and a lot more painlessly?
That’s the most idiotic comment I have ever read. First, humans have rights while animals don’t. Your example doesn’t apply to humans and that’s why it is idiotic, because a 5 year old can see that the example has no validity at all to compare humans to animals. You have to go back and start from first principle which is primary. There is nothing more fundamental than primary. Again, logic and reason. If need help in this area, then I can point you out to online resources that you can further educate yourself there.
If you think that animals have rights, then how about try jumping into a cage full of lions, then try communicating with the lions that they shouldn’t violate your rights by eating you raw, huh? Good luck.
September 29th, 2009 at 9:47 am
Not saying its right but seriously what business is it of anyone else as to how a farmer treats his own animals. Its the middle of the busiest time of the year on a dairy farm and some sick calves were not put down. This is local news at most. Spondre and Hickey are traitors publishing this stuff on the net.
Anyone who thinks this is anything to do with Fonterra needs their head read. Fonterra is a farmers milk supply cooperative. It doesn’t own the farm or have anything to do with the beef, veal or pet food industry. Why is Hickey trying to rope Fonterra into this? Perhaps to get his name and website onto front page of NZ Herald with a tabloid beat up.
September 29th, 2009 at 9:47 am
Yes, I would be angry, but I understand the trespass law and I’m a civilised person. I don’t belt someone because they drove up the driveway.
That clown deserves to be prosecuted for assault.
@LoRatesGood – grow up.
September 29th, 2009 at 9:53 am
Trev, The whole outfit are a bunch of no hopers. You find that these morons feed off one another.Tthe whole debacle is a 3 ring circus.
September 29th, 2009 at 9:55 am
I see several things wrong here…
First, those crying foul that Bryan got thumped.
He was committing a criminal act. Several actually, since they’d been told to leave, but took photos instead (according to the article). I wonder how the whingers would feel about coming home to find a stranger in their house?
Secondly, isn’t this a financial site?
Is Rabo the main mortgage holder?
Are they one of the banks having severe monetary problems?
One wonders at the motivation of a financial publication, sponsored by a bank, who is presumably financing the business in question. Which all of a sudden gets a lot of publicity after announcing intention to sell to Chinese interests….
I think it naive to believe these journalists acted out of the goodness of their hearts…
While the animals should most likely have been shot, what about the trespassers?
Or are some crimes permissable, if only in the interests of financial gain?
September 29th, 2009 at 9:56 am
It is about time the NZ government set up a competent management structure for MAF to carry out its duties properly. This animal cruelty issue is one of many that MAF should be made to account for. What about frequent breaches in Biosecurity, Food safety etc etc.
September 29th, 2009 at 9:57 am
@Carlin Archer.
Imagine if the waste products of your web development business say dead computer servers got shipped to the third world to be picked over by some poor people on peice rates to keep starvation at bay and in the process they were exposed to all kinds of heavy metals and toxic substances and had no decent health care. Absolutely disgusting how those web developers don’t look after people and the environment.
Imagine if those dirty polluting web developers were hauled accross the front page of the NZ Herald.
September 29th, 2009 at 10:04 am
The computer industry has been, LoRatesGood, or how else do you know about it? Nothing wrong with exposing malpractice, whereever it is. Hence this article.
September 29th, 2009 at 10:07 am
Falafulu Fisi Says:
First humans have rights whilst animals don’t
The above succintly sums you up, certainly hope you don’t own any animals
LoRatesGood Says
Not saying its right but seriously what business is it of anyone else as to how a farmer treats his own animals.
And another who doesn’t get it, would rather turn a blind eye than try to change the situation for those that have no voice.
.
his says it all really about you
September 29th, 2009 at 10:08 am
It is a concern the Government’s Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries (MAF) is so supportive of this behaviour.
MAF will tell you they are doing the best they can, but clearly this is not the case.
September 29th, 2009 at 10:11 am
Trev said…
That clown deserves to be prosecuted for assault.
Well I agree with that, since I know Bryan Spondre personally and I think that Bryan should follow it up with a complain to the police.
My main issue here is to defend the rights of the farmer himself to enjoy the way how he runs his business. The rise and fall of an entrepreneur is determined by the market, unless of course the government steps in and strips the entrepreneur him/herself of his/her assets which lead to his/her downfall. Jan & Claire (representatives of the market) have decided to avoid buying dairy products as their protests and that is how it should be.
It is unbelievable that some here expressed ill wishes against Mr. Alan Crafar, such as the sooner he is out of farming or go bankrupt the better.
September 29th, 2009 at 10:13 am
@ From The Sidelines
You call Fonterra a failure and a government legislated monopoly.
Fonterra is the result of aroun 100 years of amalgamations of all the farmer owned and managed dairy co-ops. At the end of the amalgamation process there was essentially only one co-op left and government legislated to allow other dairy start ups to compete.
Fonterra is the largest business in the country, it delivers profit to its owners of such size that it impacts the whole NZ economy. Hardly a failure.
September 29th, 2009 at 10:15 am
Bernard and Bryan…………Whooh! gritty stuff and while I’m not as informed as some on this site I think you have done no harm to your credibility or reputation.
It was fun to see the usual suspect bankers come out in support(albeit cautious) of the Crafars and Falafulu with the lovely little dog eating story which has been the source of his/her enhanced IQ. I wonder what it was before canine ingestion..?
OOOOh! they were all out Chris_J and the posse. although Mark Hubbard was conspicuious in his absence.
Andrew_J excellent posts as usual……. you know your stuff… on ya mate!
I suspect the next painful step for the crafar saga will be the I.R.D. determining whether stock death due to,.. neglect.. can be claimed as a genuine stock loss by natural disaster or other natural event.
I’m thinking this is one point a few people here have not given thought to….the loss of the stock…..asset….capital…… was avoidable and therefore no considerations or mittigation should be extended to Crafar.
If you were to ask in a sucsess story scenerio as was a short while back ..who is responsibile…….Crafar put his hand up……..if you ask now who is culpable…..nnnnnnnot so fast ..eh..?
September 29th, 2009 at 10:19 am
@ Falafulu Fisi – I agree that anyone should be allowed to run their business as they choose. However, society has laws for good reason and those laws need to be obeyed for good reason.
@ Gordon “He was committing a criminal act. Several actually, since they’d been told to leave, but took photos instead (according to the article). I wonder how the whingers would feel about coming home to find a stranger in their house?”
They weren’t in his house and the only criminal act was the assault.
September 29th, 2009 at 10:22 am
The third world bastard owner should be shot
I believe it very important that this video be broadcast world wide this bullshit that nz is green, clean and safe has been a lie for some time due to irrisponcible criminals such as this.
September 29th, 2009 at 10:22 am
@Falafulu Fisi, I note your points made about complex and whole systems on other threads and individual rights on this one. Individual rights to freedom, choice and liberty are important, sure. However, if actions and behaviour occurs emanating from an individual that could potentially, or does, negatively impact on the freedom, choice and liberty of the ‘whole’, then how would you expect the ‘complex adaptive system’ that we are part of, as a society/economy, to then behave?
Some might see this as out of Interest.co’s space, but dairy is part of the economy and a very important part. Plus, if other media and institutions have not picked up on this particular issue and those associated, for whatever reason, why should Interest.co not, especially given this sectos criticality to NZ’s economy.
@Bernard, you ask some good questions of Fonterra, but if they stopped taking product, where would that leave the value of the operation and property? Where would that leave the value of other farms? Where would that leave the lender? Where would that leave the value of other farms – in the Ponzi-like house of cards various institutions have willingly supported this sector to become?
Oh, I can see why you are asking now.
September 29th, 2009 at 10:29 am
Margo said…
First humans have rights whilst animals don’t
The above succintly sums you up, certainly hope you don’t own any animals
I challenged you to reply with logic and reason and well, you came back with a one-liner that explains nothing. If you want to defend your position, then debate and stop trying to hide behind obfuscating one-liner comment which sums you up rather than me.
I grew up in a farming family back in Tonga. We owned a huge pig farm, where we one of the main suppliers of pork meat in the local market in Nuku’alofa. We had to look after our animals by feeding them with taro and tapioca (which we also farmed), since you couldn’t sell meat to the local market that came from starved pigs. The locals wouldn’t buy them. Pork meat with huge chunk of fat hanging from them were more popular with the locals (that was a signed that our animals were well fed). My dad was very protective in the way how he ran his farming. So, don’t try to lecture me about animal welfare. The Nuku’alofa market would have punished us if we tried to sell meat that came from starved pigs. Who was hurting who, if my dad was showing negligence towards the welfare of his own animals? Yep, himself (and his own family) and no one else.
September 29th, 2009 at 10:33 am
@Trev – quite incorrect.
Tresspass Act 1980 makes no distinction between house and property.
For someone who claims to be familiar with the law, you demonstrate woeful ignorance in this instance…
The criminal offence is, by his own admission, covered by S.3 – Tresspass after warning to leave
September 29th, 2009 at 10:36 am
LoRatesGood, “Not saying its right but…” no buts on this one.
September 29th, 2009 at 10:42 am
Jacko, are you in support of keeping the situation out of the public eye, of not rocking the house of cards? Your final flurry is a bit criptic! …..”Oh, I can see why you are asking now”…. please explain.
September 29th, 2009 at 10:45 am
From the sidelines, September 29th, 2009 at 9:36 am:
Your comment is an excellent summary of the situation.
LoRatesGood:
Please show me some numbers to support your contention.
September 29th, 2009 at 10:49 am
Gordon – I never made that claim.
The distinction between house and property is important – I might walk up your driveway uninvited for a perfectly legal reason – maybe to visit. It is very unlikely that I would be in your house uninvited for a legal reason.
Trespass (note the spelling) after warning to leave – what is a reasonable time for letting someone leave? He was in the car when the assault took place.
The assault was the criminal act.
September 29th, 2009 at 10:53 am
with reference to MAF’s excuse about staffing, heaven forbid we have notification of a possible foot and mouth outbreak after 2.30 on a friday, “I’m sorry, its nearly the weekend, we will look into it on monday”
There is totally no excuse for calves to be treated this way…Bernard, did you happen to see how the keeper calves were being kept, if they were fine, then it was obviously a conscious decision to not train and feed the bobbies properly, more than a lack of staff training, they KNEW as everyone knows that you have to feed the calves, if they had permission to put them down, they should have been doing so in a prompt and humane manner.
It is time fonterra acted, I can remember when they launched the clean streams accord and threatened to not pick up milk from polluters, they have talked the talk, now its time to walk the walk.
September 29th, 2009 at 10:54 am
Thank you Bernard and Bryan for publishing this.
Despite what many would think, this type of behaviour would have eventually come to light, but in the Daily Mail’s of the world, or on the PETA; where the damage to the New Zealand brand would have been immeasurable.
At least by highlighting it domesitcally, we show that as a country we do not accept these type of farmers and the cruelty they inflict on their stock.
To the idiots arguing it is none of the public’s business, and that we should keep our nose out of how farmers run their businesses – GROW UP.
The world (and in particular our markets) have moved on from a time where cruelty to animals was accepted, to the point where this sort of behaviour is abhored.
It is these sort of farmers that are traitors to New Zealand, and the general farming communit, with the damage they will have done to the NZ brand.
The simple reality is that the consumption of meat eggs, milk, cheese, and the wearing of leather do not necessitate “cruelty” and unnecessary suffering.
September 29th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Shame on the dairy farmer and his employees, but that doesn’t mean that all dairy farmers are the same.
Breaches like this should result in supply contracts being stopped and animals shipped off to farmers that treat them right.
A lifestyle block owner would be very pleased to have these animals, just feed them on mothers milk for a couple of days. They are worth nothing dead, so sell them for $10 or give them away and I’m sure plenty of people would take them.
MAF, get your act together, shame on you as it appears this is not a one off!
Forget about the Trespass Act, concentrate on the real issue here and that is the inhumane treatment of animals.
First we have pig farmers and breeding in pens/stalls issues, now the dairy industry.
Shame on you all, farmer, owners, employees, banks, MAF, Fonterra, you all have dirt on your hands!
September 29th, 2009 at 11:03 am
I get the feeling Fonterra is pulling the strings on this and MAF are doing the dance of the puppets with the foolish govt watching the show, while also directing their minions to biff the public from the theatre and keep them from getting a peep at the performance.
September 29th, 2009 at 11:11 am
Margo Says
Falafulu Fisi Says I challenged you to reply with logic and reason and well, you came back with a one-liner that explains nothing. If you want to defend your position, then debate and stop trying to hide behind obfuscating one-liner comment which sums you up rather than me
Not deemed necessary to further debate with you when it comes to the welfare of animals who have no voice, sometimes less said the better
September 29th, 2009 at 11:23 am
In todays Straight Furrow,
Farm leaders in South Cant and Otago welcome ambitious dairy expansion on irrigated land in Mackenzie basin. Development hinges on resource consents covering 27,000 ha carrying 22,500 cows on properties between lake Ohau and Omarama.
Dairy development is an exciting development say Fed farmers south cant president.
Milk to go to new independent factory called Oceania originally known as NZ Milk company. Oceania has high powered and Influential directors , Dr Keith Turner( ex meridian boss) and former Nat party and RB governor Don Brash.
the worlds gone mad.
September 29th, 2009 at 11:30 am
Answers to some dumb townie questions
Why did MAF allow this farm to continue operating?
Answer. Hundreds possibly over a thousand cows have to be milked.
Why did Fonterra continue to accept milk from Crafar farms?
Answer. If it did not, the milk would have to be poured into a creek or the cows painfully dried off and all the staff would lose their jobs
Why was Allan Crafar allowed to stay on Fonterra’s most senior representative body for 6 years?
Answer. Democracy.
What controls were in place at Westpac, Rabobank and PGG Wrightson Finance to investigate the financial and environmental sustainability of this farming operation?
Answer. Banks aren’t in the business of estimating environmental sustainability.
How can New Zealand continue to advertise itself as 100% pure?
Answer. Apply a bigger marketing and PR budget and include interest.co.nz in the media spend.
Whip it good Hickey.
http://www.nzfarmersweekly.co.nz/article/7943.html
September 29th, 2009 at 11:30 am
AndrewJ
The last sentence made me laugh – you are soo right – the wor(l)ds of some of the comments here gone mad too – and a high IQ is obviously no guarantee not to.
September 29th, 2009 at 11:32 am
PeterR…..does this help
From Fonterra’s website:
“Key FactsFonterra is the world’s leading exporter of dairy products and responsible for more than a third of international dairy trade.
Our dairy farmers have long been known for producing quality milk and today New Zealand is a world leader in large-scale milk procurement and processing.
Our global supply chain stretches from farms all over New Zealand to customers and consumers in more than 140 ”
http://www.fonterra.com/wps/wcm/connect/fonterracom/fonterra.com/our+business/fonterra+at+a+glance/about+us/key+facts
September 29th, 2009 at 11:38 am
Is there no other news that journalists can dig there teeth into. Tony Vetich appears to be getting his life together after a few suicide attempts and a failed marriage so maybe it is time for the media to turn on him again. What is it with our media where they fixate on a person or entity and then set out to prove that there very shallow view of the industry is correct. What has Fonterra and the banks got to do with the calves dieing on Crafar owned farms? Could it just be that the staff were underskilled for the job and the sinister person that took the video could of spent that time teaching the calves to drink, upskilling the staff and organised for the calves that were dying to be shot.
The thing that i love most about Americans is that they are proud to see their people achieve. The Crafar’s have worked hard and achieved and that is why the banks have backed them to date. The banks are still backing them and the Crafar’s will get back on there feet because they are survivers just like Tony Vetich.
If anything I propose that we place more rules and regulations within journalism as it appears that journalists lack ethics.
September 29th, 2009 at 11:47 am
@Bryan and Bernard, you absolutely did the right thing bringing this issue into the public arena. Well done, and keep up the great work.
September 29th, 2009 at 11:50 am
W.Kunz : Alan Crafar got banks to lend him $ 200 m. If this achievement is linked to I.Q. , then you and me ain’t fit to tie our own shoe laces !!! ( I wear slip-on boots . Ha ! ) . As for helping Bryan S. in a scrape , I’m barely big enough to carry his mouth-guard , let alone the sponge bucket .
There do seem to be a number of folk who condone cruelty to animals , if it is kept hidden from view . Not my problem ? Sad .
September 29th, 2009 at 11:50 am
Falafulu Fisi : ……..I’m unsure as to whether or not the meat I eat was happy, but I hope it was ok and that some some kind of standard was in place to ensure an acceptable existance was available before slaughter for my benifit……ie.pig story.
And thats what the moderates are saying here, we don’t want a hijack either…. but there should be STANDARDS and they should be enforced fairly and without bias.
As to the point you make that he hurts no one but himself… well that just wont bear scrutiny as a statment because the Standards have been breeched it suggests a reflection upon the body that set those standards if no action is taken to…punish…? or repair the reputation of the standards…..? and so they the collective must feel aggrieved or hurt as you put it.
On a point of trespass in the intrerests of hylighting a serious breech of standards, i have no problem with that.
Just as I would have no problem hopping your fence to feed and give your dog some comfort as I watched you starve it to death
If i were to mind my own buisness in that instance I would feel some responsibility in the outcome.
I don’t know what Bernard and Bryans agenda was in truth…. but it was a necessity to tell this story…… or accept some of the responsibility in silence.
As to mine no vagans here mate I love meat, milk. dead fish etc…etc…etc…and I like to….. think…… they get a fair go… but I don’t like to KNOW they don’t.
September 29th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
hey i have been farming for 25 years before moving to city and this is NOT on.Dairy farming has sadly become more like factory production with everything aimed at the bottom line leading to animal welfare taking a backseat to the almighty dollar.Hopefully this is a isolated incident but somehow one doubts it!!!
September 29th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
.
September 29th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Falafulu Fisi : There is a document called ” The Animal Welfare Act (1999) ” , which indicates to me that animals do have rights . And there is a list of key features to the act , top of which is ” proper and sufficient food and water ” . It is not rocket science , all laid out in simple English . the Crafars have been poor custodians of their stock and the land . Good on Bernard and Slugger Spondre for blowing the whistle on them . Clearly MAF are under staffed , and incompetent .
September 29th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Roger Thompson so, if you’re in a jungle somewhere , would the tigers in there respect your rights when you go near them, the same as you would respect their rights if they come near you, correct? Understanding rights is not rocket science because it is simple English not differential calculus and and you’re correct there. What’s difficult is that some people don’t seem to grasp logic, reason and epistemological argument.
September 29th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
@Falafulu Fisi
I haven’t decided to stop buying dairy or any other product. I’ve simply decided to try to be a lot more informed and to inform others about what is local and what is good. I do use my dollar to make my point but that would not stop me from condeming this man. He runs a business, whether he has daily contact with all parts of that business is frankly irrelevant, it is his business and he profits or loses according to that. He is ultimately responsible for everything that goes on in that business and cannot abdicate responsibility for it. Naturally there are others who should be held accountable – those working direcrtly with the animals – but that does not excuse him.
I’m not convinced that I entirely blame the banks or fonterra directly thought they certainly have a part to play. Fonterra should have a level of responsibility for the welfare of animals on the farms which supply them as clothing companies have a responsibility when their garments are produced in sweatshops.
I will vote with my dollar and I will continue to try to promote the local and the good producers.
September 29th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
I would like to see an official comment from the lenders, they all tout their corporate social responsibility (CSR) initiatives:
http://www.rabobank.co.nz/About-Rabobank/Corporate-social-responsibility/Pages/CSR.aspx
http://www.westpac.co.nz/olcontent/olcontent.nsf/Content/Sustainability
However based on the information provided it would appear it is not something they actually believe in.
September 29th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Falafulu : Tigers don’t come into my living room , so I return the same courtesy by not blundering into their’s . Domesticated animals are the issue . They are in our care . Their lives are often uncomfortable , and short . Why do you condone adding neglect and brutality to their lot ? And don’t confuse showing respect and care with the moniker ” animal lover ” which you attribute to those who oppose your views .
September 29th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
Sam Smith…fat chance mate. The whitewash buckets will be out and the pr prix gearing up. Should be a whole wave of new advertising coming out of this.
September 29th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
@Sam
Sure banks are going to have a (profit) sustainability policy – low cost energy saving light bulbs, emailed statements instead of costly stamps and envelopes … but you could hardly expect them to have an animal welfare policy.
September 29th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
@Jan
I hope you are at home getting tea on for your husband (thats if you have one) and stop taking the piss out of good hard wokring New Zealanders.
@Harriet (hope its spelt right)
Carfer or Carfar … i have a suggestion for you – look at the big picture, not just one letter, you all knew what i was talking about as he is the topic.
September 29th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
Several letters actually, Alan …it’s Allan as well. I’m guessing that care need to be taken, even in the contracting business.
September 29th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
Falafulu Fisi Says:
September 29th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Roger Thompson so, if you’re in a jungle somewhere , would the tigers in there respect your rights when you go near them, the same as you would respect their rights if they come near you, correct? Understanding rights is not rocket science because it is simple English not differential calculus and and you’re correct there. What’s difficult is that some people don’t seem to grasp logic, reason and epistemological argument.
Fala me old mate now your just being silly………….give it up and have a think …. we are NOT A.M.A just ordinary meat eaters like YOU maybe who would like to see a STANDARD observed and enforced……………so lighten up on the pooch yeah..?
September 29th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Christov said…
we are NOT A.M.A just ordinary meat eaters like YOU maybe who would like to see a STANDARD observed and enforced
Tell me who the bloody hell should observe you? Can I observe you and make judgment call on what you do in your own property? Can I come around with a vid camera to film you and see if you have done something appalling according to the norms or wishes of the majority ?
Get on with what you’re doing in your daily life , which is more important than you whinging about some neglected animals in some farms out there somewhere. At the end of the day, Crafar problems will follow him, not any commentators here.
September 29th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
Matt S – “you absolutely did the right thing bringing this issue into the public arena. “…
I’m not so sure trial by media in advance of MAF’s investigation being completed is helpful… I still can’t help thinking there is somthing missing from the storey presented here.
If for example the Rearing shed has Rota Virus[which is common in NZ]… you will have a large cluster of deaths, preceeded by dehydration… until such time as the sick Calves are isolated and the shed is fully cleaned and disinfected.
Sick Calves don’t want to feed and they dehydrate… Whilst stomach feeding electrolytes may help rehydrate the animals you can only do that for 2 day’s before reintroducing milk blend… and if your calves are still sick they will die.
Maybe the answer to Bernards question #2 to MAF… Is they don’t have all the facts yet, so they don’t want to jump to erroneous conclusions.
September 29th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
-Falafulu Fisi said..
“since you love animal so much. Practice what you preach and if you can’t, then stop trying to pass moral judgment on others who never done damage to you”
So what is the purpose of organisations such as the SPCA, who work tirelessly for the welfare of animals?
You are entitled to your opinion, and indeed is the nature of this blog, yes the farmer in question has the right to run his business how he wishes but when it means he affects the well being of innocent animals I think some one needs to step in. Otherwise what is the purpose of justice?
and…
“Trev, in what law that allowed Bernard and Bryan to enter this farmer’s property, uninvited? You would react angrily to someone entering your property uninvited wouldn’t you?”
Prehaps not lawful but considering the nature of his practices that have been exposed I think it is for a greater good.
In my opinion if you ignore the rights and mistreat another person, you forsake your own rights to a degree.
Why are animals any different? they still feel. I think you should ask yourself how you would like to endure that fate.
Yes we as humans produce and consume meat. However in my opinion it is our responsibility to ensure that they have the best life possible.
I say good on the people responsible for exposing such grotesque mistreatment.
Lastly if you want to express your views go right ahead, but i think that persecuting others for their opinions is more than a little pathetic.
September 29th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Falafulu : Evil men thrive when good men stay silent . Are they good , if they observe cruelty , injustice , and do nothing ? Are you detached from all that occurs around you . Your neighbour bings the dog or toddler into the washing machine for a spin , you say and do nothing . Well , it is on their property , so it is their right to do as they feel fit and funny . A bleak , cold world to live in , where we do not show care and act when we can . Bernard and Bryan acted . Bravo to them ! ( Gotta go now , a bag of gummy bears , and they’re all for me ………..Yummy gummy ! )
September 29th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
I know the Crafar family well. I do not know a harder working kiwi family, and as a “townie” I put much of the success I’ve had in my own career down to work ethics I learned from them.
What has happened here is a sad story. From small beginnings, the Crafars built up an empire of dairy farms through entrepeneurship, innovation, and sheer hard work – the extent of which few people will truly understand. Over the years their sharemilkers, contract milkers, Fonterra, their banks (in particular), and the wider NZ economy have prospered from their endeavours.
As a family they have endured a lot – 10 or so years ago they were victims of a particularly nasty home invasion by four armed offenders in their isolated homestead. Just down the road, Beverly Bouma was murdered in her home in another similar incident. Some of the Crafar’s rather hardened exterior and attitude towards life can be put down to experiences like these. Commets from Alan like ‘there’s some humans I’d rather shoot than a cow’ should be viewed through this lens.
Unfortunately, as the Crafar’s business continued to grow and expand over the years, the sheer size of their operation has gotten away from them financially and managerially. The results we all know about through the media. They now face financial and reputational ruin.
I have read with a mixture of emotions some of the posts on this and other sites this morning. Like most I’m angry that animals have been mistreated needlessly. Like few, I feel sorry for the Crafars who, while ultimately responsible for what happens on their properties, are now the targets of some pretty vitriolic and personal attacks, and find themselves in the middle of a media feeding frenzy.
Yes – if you take a few steps back from this, the Crafars must take some of the blame for this, but remember that this incident, as shocking as the pictures show, is happening to a family who find themselves in the middle of losing everything that they have worked for over the last 35 or so years – hardly surprising that at this time they are not completely on top of things in terms of management….
As some posters have pointed out, there are deeper issues to consider than simply self-righteous calls to have the Crafars run out of the industry and/or thrown in jail….
September 29th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
mr crafar did do wrong he should just shot the lot ,but publishing this your just hurting the whole industry this not what we need to see at present ,you townies would have no idea what goes on so it should just get left that way ,why dont you reporter go catch real news instead trying to knock the man down,without the diary industry new zealand would be stuffed!!!!!!!!!!!
September 29th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
@Wally – …fat chance mate. The whitewash buckets will be out and the pr prix gearing up. Should be a whole wave of new advertising coming out of this.
@Joe – Sure banks are going to have a (profit) sustainability policy – low cost energy saving light bulbs, emailed statements instead of costly stamps and envelopes … but you could hardly expect them to have an animal welfare policy.
There are two issues effluent in the stream, and dead starved calves – both fall under corporate social responsibility (CSR). You could say they they don’t have a policy that specifically covers animal welfare, which is the same as saying they just don’t care – not a very public friendly approach.
Both Rabo and Westpac offer kids bank accounts – how about you show this video to your children and then ask them if they would like to save with these banks. The market will speak, new accounts are an important business for banks.
September 29th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
MJ
Many thanks for your thoughts and insight.
I actually agree with you.
This is a tragedy, but it cannot go undocumented, otherwise nothing would change for the better.
I actually think it would be better for the Crafars if the banks and Fonterra and MAF stepped in to run these farms.
Alan needs a long rest and I’m sure his workers would be happier with some much more professional management.
I suspect his animals would also appreciate it.
Kind regards
Bernard
September 29th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
Pj said…
Why are animals any different? they still feel. I think you should ask yourself how you would like to endure that fate.
Animals don’t have a faculty of reasoning to be able to have rational thoughts, but humans do. They (feelings) don’t have feelings, they have reflexes and that’s facts. Deal with the facts and if you can’t grasp that, then I suggest that you should try do some readings up on philosophy first so that you can understand what fundamental and immutable concepts are. Passing a law that says that animals have rights, doesn’t automatically make fundamental concepts mutable.
Christov, didn’t attempt to refute anything I said, he simply appeal to others emotions (majority here) that somehow his piss-take post was valid simply because there are more on this list that seems to say exactly what he agrees with. See, when I asked Margo to debate, she/he simply prefer not to, however reading about her moral judgment on Alan, makes one thinks that she has reason, which was none at all. Just empty rhetoric that appeals tot he emotions of the uninitiated on this thread.
September 29th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
@ Roger
Roger I’m with you on this. I’m talking about the person you are arguing with. He tries to convince us, manipulating words/ sentences. I think not worth to debate with him.
As I wrote earlier:
Some of the comments do not fit into an image of a modern society of the 21 century, but are rather of the “Firestone episode” – part of an evolutionary still- stand -and there is no excuse for that.
The greatness of a nation and its moral process can be judged how its animals are treated. M Ghandi
September 29th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
MJ well said.
To most other comment makers your treating the Crafar family with more disdain than a criminal like Bernie Madoff. This is entirely inappropriate and disgusting.
To the other Bernard, your vendetta against the Crafar’s is beyond belief, it is not appropriate content for the type of website you promote, if you wish to denigrate to a Kiwiblog level feel free to do so, but NO ONE WILL EVER TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY AGAIN (IF THEY EVER DID!) if you continue to engage in sensationalism.
I am disgusted by your childish behaviour calling for the banks to foreclose on Mr Crafar.
You and your website are a disgrace to fair and reasonable hard working New Zealanders.
September 29th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
Roger said…
Your neighbour brings the dog or toddler into the washing machine for a spin , you say and do nothing.
Roger, I think that I am wasting my time in responding to your irrelevant argument. First, why would I allow my neighbor to bring a dog into my washing machine for a spin? Second, I will ring the police or stop my neighbor from doing that sort of barbaric action to a toddler. Remember and you should memorize this as it seems that I keep saying it over and over on this thread and some still don’t get it, the toddler has rights and I will do something to protect those rights, but the dog doesn’t, and I wouldn’t waste my time in trying to interfere in my neigbor’s stupidity if they do that to their own dog that is one that I don’t own (ie, not my property).
September 29th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
I have to say compared to other stories on this site this story is very unprofessional – borders on gutter journalism – which is a shame because the topic deserves a better showing.
I know you are trying to stand up for animal rights but Crafar clearly doesn’t have the capacity to deal with either the media or the public. His quotes are entertaining, but it’s starting to feel like your bullying him. Probably better to focus on MAF/Police/SPCA/Fonterra for not doing their jobs. Crafar can only get away with it if they let him.
September 29th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
apologies Falafulu Fisi it seems that my comment has been misinterpreted, by feelings i was refering to animals feeling pain. FACT
September 29th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
W. Kunz said…
I’m talking about the person you are arguing with. He tries to convince us, manipulating words/ sentences. I think not worth to debate with him.
No, Kunz. I don’t try to convince you with words. I simply try to enlighten you with an intellectual argument in your English language (which is my 2nd language) that you seem to think that I am manipulating you with words. I have heard those comments before. When one is faced with a well reasoned argument, the opponent simply scream and say, please don’t say those things because I wouldn’t understand them.
See, the problem is the widespread. On the other day, a commentator called Steven thought that I said something that was a bare-faced lie. I presented him with logic, reason and of course scientific facts and that was the end of the discussion. I am sure that we could have continued if he came back to accuse me of manipulating words ( I mean I simply quoted some scientific publications), but I didn’t. So, your crybaby here Kutz is irrelevant.
September 29th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Ray:
That tells me how Fonterra wants the world to see it. I was interested in numbers to support claims that it makes large profits.
I have been looking through dairy export stats to find any sign that Fonterra has been adding value and instead I find what I suspect is the reverse. I have looked at payout versus commodity prices and I can’t find the claimed value add. I have also found negative correlations of export price to increasing export volumes.
A couple of numbers from Fonterra’s latest accounts tell a lot. Those numbers are Fonterra’s cost of equity capital at 11.75% and its average cost of interest at I think 7.03%. Equity cost of capital determines the milk price – the higher the cost of equity capital the lower the milk price. The ‘value add’ component of Fonterra’s payout is the difference between the payout and milk price.
With an interest cost of 7% and a milk price set using an equity cost of capital at 11.75% it is not hard for Fonterra to show an apparent profit. Is that apparent profit a mirage based on an artificially low milk price.
Is Fonterra the solution to saving the NZ dairy industry, or a major part of the problem? Fonterra or anyone else is yet to provide hard data to support the former.
September 29th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Perhaps you should lay a formal report to NZ Police for assault and battery charges vs the Farm Manager Bernard & Brian as that kind of anti-social wasn’t warranted – you left when advised to, so the punch through the window warrants disciplinary action. We aren’t a nation of thugs. The treatment of calves by this farmer is disgraceful as most farmers would agree. Perhaps MAF can prosecute, Fonterra can teach Crafar Farms a lesson by not buying from them until they sort their systems out.
Calling the banks to foreclose on them is over the top though. They are all big boys and can make their own prudent decisions.
September 29th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
@Chris_J – You and your website are a disgrace to fair and reasonable hard working New Zealanders.
Of course I can’t speak for you Chris, but I can tell you that the Crafar’s are certainly not representative of “fair and reasonable hard working New Zealanders”.
As for banks pulling funding from the Crafar’s, they most certainly can and should have – now they stand to lose money and suffer bad press (perhaps some of the worst in recent history). I’m not saying they immediately foreclose based on the latest issue of animal welfare. There have been publicly disclosed issues before this (2006), banks should have been thinking we don’t want to be associated with this and warned the Crafar’s they would be actively reducing lending to them. For the banks that lent after these issues were known, their judgement has to be questioned.
September 29th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
@ Shorty
Couldn’t have said it any better. This topic does deserve better than the emotion grabbing piece above. BH you’ve done yourself a disservice by focusing what seems to be a wider problem onto a man who – as Shorty states: “clearly doesn’t have the capacity to deal with the media or the public”.
September 29th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
I’m amazed that anyone who has worked closely with pigs can still believe that animals are machines that have reactions only, and not feelings.
There is nothing fundamentally different about human physiology or brain structure that would lead to that conclusion – we just happen to be an animal species that got lucky. Yes, I do have a degree which included a large slice of physiology.
You could just as well assume that other humans had no feelings, just reactions. Some humans do just that. I believe the correct term for such a human is a psychopath.
September 29th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Gail said…
I’m amazed that anyone who has worked closely with pigs can still believe that animals are machines that have reactions only, and not feelings.
Show me where in the scientific literatures which say that animals have feelings ?
September 29th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
@ Falafufu… I’d suggest you go do some reading on Kant and the universal law.
Many animals can and do display a capability of rational thought, and feeling. Stating that this is factually wrong will not get you anywhere, as for the vast audience that you are addressing the evidence to the contrary is sitting in their backyard.
Do I mean however that animals are the equal of man – absolutely not.
Man is in no doubt vastly more capable of reason, analysis, critical thought, and most importantly “empathy”.
It is that empathy, the ability to understand and comprehend the suffering of others (including animals) that is what defines us as unique from the rest of the animal kingdom.
We act on that empathy to allow our fellow animals certain rights, such as the right to not be subjected to unnecessary pain of suffering.
To deny our livestock (our prey) the opportunity to live without unnecessary pain, is to deny ourselves our humanity.
September 29th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Deny ourselves our humanity?
Crikey….
September 29th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
(missed the edit time window)
It should be noted that in the natural world there are no rights, neither for man, or any of the animal kingdom.
Rights are solely a construct of man…
For the record, I fundamentally have no issue with someone cooking their dog or cat, if they are so inclined, provided the animal was not made to suffer unnecessarily.
September 29th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
He’s just constantly letting us know about his IQ – stupid isn’t ?
The greatness of a nation and its moral process can be judged how its animals are treated. M Ghandi
September 29th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
@Falafulu Fisi
Animals are known to grieve the deaths of members of their family. Any literature will tell you that. Certainly elephants do that when they lose a calf.
However we are all ultimately partly to blame for this whole thing. In the main we have very little interest or knowledge of where our food comes from. We are happiest if the meat arrives in a bit of plastic which makes it appear to be something other than what it really is.
I have no issue with meat eating but I think we all should know and understand where our food comes from and how it gets to be on our plate. Everyone is up in arms when they see the footage but will happily forget or ignore once it is out of the public eye.
Time to get back to some basics on food production and see what’s what.
September 29th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
And to be honest, my god-fearing WTM…..
The situation is actually much more complex than it seems. When biologists interested in evolution theory first started examining social behaviour, some apparently unanswerable questions occurred. How could, for instance, the birth of sterile castes, like in bees, be explained through an evolving mechanism which emphasizes the reproductive success of as many individuals as possible? Why, among animals living in small groups like squirrels, would an individual risk its own life to save the rest of the group?
These behaviours are examples of altruism…
Could it be that say, dolphins, aren’t as stupid as you think they are?
September 29th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
Falafulu Fisi, you’re an animal….and we assume you have feelings!
September 29th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
A little education for you Falafulu Fisi,
http://www.ruralnews.co.nz/Default.asp?task=article&subtask=show&item=18351&pageno=1
September 29th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
Agree with you , W.Kunz . FF is twisting our words beyond understanding . No point to argue further with bare-faced manipulation by this blogger . Just glad I am not in his ” care ” ! I will catch up with you on another topic . Got the 4 y.o. to look after , and the little sneak is after my gummy bears …….. gotta run . Cheers , WK . ( Ghandi was right on ! )
September 29th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
@Ray “God-fearing” – that I am not. I quite firmly believe that mankind are nothing more than a certain species of animal..
My comment about rights, and more specifically that they are human constructs, is more a rejection of a belief that only humans have rights (not that those rights exist)
I’m not sure where you have taken my statement to mean other than what you are also saying…
You point about animals displaying altruism such as squirrels, is merely reinforcing my previous statement that FF’s statement that animals are incapable of rational thought is incorrect.
The average person only has to come home from a bad day at work, to see the concern shown by their pet to know, that animals are indeed capable of emotions.
September 29th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
@Wally, 10.36pm, I condone what Bernard and team have done, see previous posts. I’m wondering however what kind of impact not taking product and foreclosing might have on the wider industry and if the institutions involved might have envisaged a damaging knock-on effect, to their interests, that may have stayed their hand from that course, and maybe it seems, any appropriate corrective action? Put another way, is there a possible conflict of interest that has restrained corrective action that could have been delivered by the associated (responsible/irresponsible?) third parties?
@Falafulu Fisi, would you like to respond to my question asked at 10.22am please.
@WTM, “Man is in no doubt vastly more capable of reason, analysis, critical thought, and most importantly “empathy”. It is that empathy, the ability to understand and comprehend the suffering of others (including animals) that is what defines us as unique from the rest of the animal kingdom. We act on that empathy to allow our fellow animals certain rights, such as the right to not be subjected to unnecessary pain of suffering.”
Well said, if we lose the ability, desire to empathise with our prey, how long before we become each other’s prey? We don’t condone cannabilism, right, well not in the islands of NZ anyway. So let us beware empathy losing out completely to souless logic, otherwise some may well have been in a right old stew by now.
September 29th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
Nobody ask where is MAF in this ?
If they warned the farmer we should ask WHY ?
Is it not there job to investigate and take action ?
Do you first warn the offender before you investigate ?
Is MAF doing it’s DUTY ?
September 29th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
No worries Jacko, I agree with you on the need to keep the place running for all the reasons outlined. Just who is pretending to run the country, the fools in the Beehive or Fonterra or the banks?
September 29th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
@Falafufu: “Trev, in what law that allowed Bernard and Bryan to enter this farmer’s property, uninvited?”
Seeking the truth…..if there is a law being broken its not un-reasonable for a member of the public to ascertain and then follow this on to the police. and on the other side there is trespass law….all they have to do is get a trespass notice….violence is not acceptable.
regards
September 29th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
Jacko here are some references that you can start with regarding economics and complexity. The titles are the authors chosen words, not manipulated words from me as some here seem to imply which says more about the depth of their understanding/knowledge rather than me doing wordsmithing.
#1) Emergence of two-phase behavior in markets through interaction and learning in agents with bounded rationality (freely downloadable)
#2) Complex dynamical behaviour in economic production networks (subscription)
#3) The (unfortunate) complexity of the economy (free)
#4) Economics need a scientific revolution (free)
#5) “A Complexity Theory Approach to Evolvable Production Systems” (freely available, just Google for it)
#6) “From production networks to geographical economics”
September 29th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
It is extremely gratifying to see the overwhelming majority of 200+ people commenting condemning this horrible affair. BUT, what are all of you going to DO about it? What ACTION are you going to take to see that appropriate penalties, including jail time, are imposed. Since MAF has known about this for years and has done nothing, it is clear that members of the public haven’t taken action in the past. Do you plan to continue down that path? Public outcry is meaningless and useless without follow-up ACTION. As has long been evident in New Zealand, the government pays no attention whatsoever to what the public wants; referendums are ignored. How long are we going to allow this to go on?
I WILL NOT be complicit in trying to keep this quiet. Reputation should be based on truth. It is earned, for better or for worse, by truth and honesty. A reputation based on false perceptions is nothing more than a lie. By suppressing our faults we become liars. The only reason for “not hurting New Zealand,” as expressed by the the alibi artists of this horrible mess, is GREED. In case you didn’t notice, that is the government’s (MAF) position: exposure of wrongdoing costs New Zealand money. Lying, cheating, committing horrible acts of atrocity and covering it up–is that what New Zealand is all about? IT IS IF WE DON’T DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
It’s been said many ways, but Edmund Burke said it first a long time ago: “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”
September 29th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
@Wally, actually I’d not be too bothered about things not running if the impact brought about requisite positive change. It shouldn’t have to be that way, but it seems the third parties involved, who we may have expected to take some form of appropriate action to deal with the risk (to us all) that is now being exposed, have been incapacitated in some way. As for who’s running the place, who knows.
@Bernard, you ought to get David Carter for an interview and ask him what he is going to do about this and how it will be avoided again.
September 29th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
@Falafulu Fisi, that’s an good list of references. Can you answer my question please?
September 29th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
Falafulu said …………Christov, didn’t attempt to refute anything I said, he simply appeal to others emotions (majority here) that somehow his piss-take post was valid simply because there are more on this list that seems to say exactly what he agrees with. See, when I asked Margo to debate, she/he simply prefer not to, however reading about her moral judgment on Alan, makes one thinks that she has reason, which was none at all. Just empty rhetoric that appeals tot he emotions of the uninitiated on this thread.
Christov is saying
Of course I did you silly boy, you got yourself in a spin about something here and I suspect it’s the A.M.A. types …well that’s ok I like meat too!!
I don’t feel I have to pander to the majority here anymore than I feel a need to be in a minority just for the sake of being contrary.
As to you convincing anyone with words( of your second language)….. it’s not likely is it….I don’t know what it is you do but speech writing and summary facts are not your strong point.
As to my opinion Falafulu it is as worthless as yours but we can agree to differ on that too. I’m off to pat the dog ,he dosen’t look at me.. with suspicion.
Chris_J…said To most other comment makers your treating the Crafar family with more disdain than a criminal like Bernie Madoff. This is entirely inappropriate and disgusting.
NO No Chris_J
If they had broken that story it would have got way more attention than this little fiasco. It’s a no contest…Madoff deserved a fate the calves suffered without a doubt.
So I think your pulling a long bow there Chris….Madoff is a BAAAAAAAD man. Crafar is guilty of negligence that may have been the by-product of overwork and/ or poor management.
September 29th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
WTM said…
My comment about rights, and more specifically that they are human constructs, is more a rejection of a belief that only humans have rights (not that those rights exist)
Redundant. Humans are the supreme ruler of this planet and those constructs are man’s own making. You are restating the obvious. You and me wouldn’t be here debating if there were aliens that are superior to humans.
WTM said…
You point about animals displaying altruism such as squirrels, is merely reinforcing my previous statement that FF’s statement that animals are incapable of rational thought is incorrect.
No, your point is unfounded. Animals don’t show rationalism, period.
September 29th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
Fonterra have responded here. They may stop collecting Crafars’ milk, but only if they are prosecuted and fail to rectify the situation.
http://www.interest.co.nz/ratesblog/index.php/2009/09/29/fonterra-says-refusal-to-collect-crafars-milk-one-option/
cheers
September 29th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
Jacko said…
Can you answer my question please?
You will find your answer in those papers.
September 29th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
@Falafufu: “Would the tigers in there respect your rights when you go near them, the same as you would respect their rights if they come near you, correct?” there is a huge difference between a human being who thinks and a wild animal, though in your case I may have to make an exception.
Your Libertarian stance is well documented herein, however as in votes for elections your viewpoint is a tiny extreme Libertarian one in a society who’s majority otherwise at least tries to have some care for others, animals and things. So he owes more than a care to himself in our society, he has to comply to our society’s laws and morals….if he doesn’t like that, you/he can of course leave any time you/he chooses…
He is also damaging NZ, both its reputation and from his pollution which means in-directly he damages me, that is un-acceptable.
regards
September 29th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
Is New Zealand really serious about keeping on top of pollution of this country?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/2911295/Serial-polluter-Cudby-avoids-prison-sentence
“It was the fourth time Cudby had been convicted for pollution, with the last time being……warned he was on the “cusp” of going to prison”
“was elected to the Taranaki Regional Council – the region’s environmental watchdog – in 2004 but was later removed when he was convicted on pollution charges. He ran unsuccessfully for the council in 2007″
“However, he had avoided imprisonment by only a razor’s edge and if he appeared again a prison sentence would be inevitable”
Don’t do it again. Alright?!
September 29th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
Hello Bernie,
Just curious – 250 blogs – does this represent some sort of record?
September 29th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
Margo : Bernard hates being called Bernie . He said so on Radio National . I called him Bernie , too , but I think I got away with it . Hope you do too .
September 29th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
@falafulu: “Humans are the supreme ruler of this planet”….LOL, boy do you have issues….megalomania comes to mind….
regards
September 29th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
@FF You assume that Aliens would necessarily hold the same views as you…
However, I would suspect that given that they would be vastly more intelligent than us to achieve interstellar travel, they are likely to have sufficient empathy, to actually have more in common with the majority of views shown in this thread.
Rational behaviour is the capablity to understand the principle of cause and effect, any animal that displays the capablility to learn, is displaying that capability.
-A dog that chases a ball, and returns it to his/her owner, has learnt that by returning the ball it will be thrown again
-The dog that works out how to get into it’s food barrel has learnt through trial and error a method to open the container
Rationaltiy is not the preserve of man, which is just one of the numerous species of animal on this wonderful planet.
September 29th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
@Falafulu Fisi, just to be clear at this point, this is the non-complex question you are not willing to answer for me in a way commensurate (non-complex) with which I asked it,
“I note your points made about complex and whole systems on other threads and individual rights on this one. Individual rights to freedom, choice and liberty are important, sure. However, if actions and behaviour occurs emanating from an individual that could potentially, or does, negatively impact on the freedom, choice and liberty of the ‘whole’, then how would you expect the ‘complex adaptive system’ that we are part of, as a society/economy, to then behave?”
I appreciate the list of references you have provided, but I was hoping someone with a good grasp of the complex, such as yourself obviously, would be able to render a summary answer to my question for my benefit and others who may be interested an apparent libertarian approach to this issue while in the context I describe.
Please do have a go at a short, summary reply that might help.
September 29th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
I agree, a short summary of the points made in the references would be appreciated
September 29th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
Margo says.
Roger many thanks for pointing this out to me
Bernard – please accept my sincere aologies.
September 29th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
@Jess Hughes, what is required is an answer to the crux of the question, “…how would you expect the ‘complex adaptive system’ that we are part of, as a society/economy, to then behave?”
@Falafulu Fisi, it’s not so complex you can’t answer it, is it?
September 29th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
Good one Bernard.
Who knows this might actually spark a real debate about cruelty. Too many people turn a blind eye to what goes on. Surely it is about time the practices we encourage our farmers to engage in were held up to the light of day.
To me this has shown how bad some farmers are but also how as a society we don’t have a working mechanism for working out what is acceptable and why.
MAF has five inspectors? Now what is their budget exactly?
September 29th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
I think that Bernard Hickey has found something to chew on ! He has it in for the Crafar Family I am appalled at the state of the calves and that should not be happening but i wonder if Bernard Hickey would put his Balls on the line for 200 million and work your way into a business like the crafars have over 35 years !!! Yes things have got sloppy and could be done better . I wonder what Bernard earns a year and contriputed to the economy over the last few years or how many people he employs, buggar all i’d say. I really wonder if you do gooders realise how much hard work goes into running a dairy farm, and how NZ would be without the dairy industry. Tidy it up but don’t put video’s eta up for the world to see and feather your own cap Bernard Hickey Shame on you little man . Fight back Alan Crafar, tidy it up and you show them just how tough you really are.
September 29th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
No its not a complex question at all and I think a short answer from Falafulu would be alot more helpful in this context than what is provided in the references.
September 29th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
The Animal Welfare Act ( 1999 ) : Read this FF , and then stop being so foolish . You are more intelligent than your comments on this thread . And we know that ! The act even includes invertebrates and octopusses . Nice to see that someone still cares for Labour Party back-benchers and real estate agents .
Mandy : Ultimate responsibilty rests with the boss . Under his watch , cruelty to these bobby-calves occurred . If his staff are remiss in their duties , it still comes back to Alan Crafar , the gaffer . It is tough at the top , so I am informed .
September 29th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
Thanks for this informative story, I’m pretty sure I’ll be switching to organic dairy (which, while not an absolute indicator of ethical behaviour is the best sign I can think of). If MAF won’t prosecute, maybe the SPCA can under the Animal Welfare Act.
September 29th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
Lend me $200m and I’ll spend it all on partying and fast cars, and waste the rest. It’ll have a good impact on the economy, I promise.
Why am I getting the feeling that “hard working” is just becoming a synonym for “over geared”?
September 29th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
Mandy: I think that many of these ‘do gooders’ do realise how important the dairy industry is to NZ, that’s why this is such an issue, because of this risk and pressure it poses on the industry. We need to protect our agricultural industry and our image in order for it to continue to prosper in this country and remain the product of choice in overseas markets.
September 29th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
I with you on this Mandy.little men need to get noticed some way and why not pick on the big guys.
September 29th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
Margo/Roger
Don’t worry. I’ve been called worse than Bernie lately. Someone called me a f***ing c**t while I drove off the Crafars property a few days ago.
No worries.
Margo – To your point. It’s certainly a record for any one story in 24 hour period, but we had a story last year that managed to get 325 comments over a period of a few weeks. More of a slow burning debate than a flash fire like this. Here it is. But this thread here looks set to be the record for 2009.
http://www.interest.co.nz/ratesblog/index.php/2008/09/30/alternatives-to-the-current-monetary-system-please-discuss/
cheers
Bernard
September 29th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
Falafulu Fisi – You seem to be on a one man crusade to correct the racist perception that Pacific Islanders are uneducated and ignorant. Unfortunately all you goobly gook statistical jargon proves, along with your lack of empathy for other animals, is that one can be both educated and ignorant at the same time, no matter what their race. Lose the chip on the shoulder and look for some humanity.
Other posters here are quite correct to suggest if we wish to raise other animals for our consumption, the least we can do is give them a good life and easy death. If this means we have to pay more for our food, so be it.
Mandy – You don’t have to be “tough” or “have balls” to borrow 200 million or run a farm. Its a choice, in this case it seems, based mainly on ego. Farming is important to NZ but so are a lot of other things. The agricultural sector doesn’t deserve special treatment. Given the serial nature of the Crafar’s offending, they aren’t the best example for you to hold up as “salt of the earth” NZ farmers.
September 29th, 2009 at 5:43 pm
IanC said:
Why am I getting the feeling that “hard working” is just becoming a synonym for “over geared”?
LOL, spot on Ian. However don’t worry at some point the taxpayer will be along to pick up the tab…….
September 29th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
This is a useful piece by TV3’s 60 minutes on water quality. It includes a piece on Allan Crafar.
http://www.tv3.co.nz/60-Minutes—100-Pure/tabid/905/articleID/61211/cat/631/Default.aspx
cheers
Bernard
September 29th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
I made a comment earlier on a another issue:
Our debates on that thread is reminding me very much on the 80′ in Europe, where every “Greenie” was stamped as an idiot. In the meantime the situation changed. In countries where “green” ideas/ debates were held openly, especially health living standards improved. More people are adopting “green” ideas – entire industries are adopting “green” ideas. Air/ water and land pollution decreased.
I think we all agree obviously massive population growth and Industrialisation lead to negative consequences globally. Releasing more heat/ pollution into the atmosphere, land & waterways our environment, life’s and nature are at a greater risk of damage.
Please, Kiwis don’t use strong words and rubbish/ bullshit “green” philosophies, only because problems aren’t so obvious here in NZ.
NZ economy, especially agriculture/ tourism has a wonderful opportinity to succeed with a green clean policy, but changes need to be made – urgently !
September 29th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
well done Bernard and your team.
some actual investigative journalism, surprise, surprise, not done by a newspaper, radio station, printed magazine or television. nz’s corporate media are a disgrace. especially the business and economics press. i don’t agree with all your stances on the economy, etc., but at least you are out there getting important information accessible for everyone to see. fonterra and MAF and the moneylenders are all as culpable as this fake farmer. the animals and rivers suffer the consequences of unrestrained greed.
September 29th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
MAF Budget 2008/09
Total Departmental Output Expenses Budget = $85,052,000
Amount of the above spent on Animal Welfare = $2,907,000
And you’ll love this – they spent $27,000,000 on GENERAL POLICY ADVICE and $37,000,000 on CLIMATE CHANGE POLICY ADVICE.
So much for John and Bill putting more of our taxpayer dollar into front line services !!!!
http://www.treasury.govt.nz/budget/2009/suppestimates/suppest09agfor.pdf
September 29th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
Hello Bernard, might it be correct to assume you may re-consider having RaboPlus sponsor your website?
Bernard responds. We have a strict separation of editorial and advertising at interest.co.nz. I don’t tell the advertisers what to advertise and the advertisers don’t tell me what to write. It works well.
September 29th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
This is just greed pure and simple and for siimpletons like this they deserve all the courts can throw at them. Fonterra would not be so inactive if they new a major overseas buryer was not burying because of the way these anamils were treated. Well done for this reporting, Bernard, Gerard
September 29th, 2009 at 7:46 pm
….I still can’t believe MAF tipped the farm off they were on their way.
I mean seriously, how does that work?!
September 29th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
Why is MAF not prosecuting because it’s a management issue – sounds counter-intuitive, surely if its a management issue that means there is someone to prosecute, and at the very least someone has made a mistake?
It seems appalling that these farms are allowed to operate with impunity, reading the stuff on the Hawkes Bay case makes me think that there’s a pattern here that’s pretty obvious – big farms, inexperienced or poorly trained staff that are overworked and in such jeopardy themselves that they can’t speak up about the abuse they see. To let animals suffer like that you’ve got to be pretty jaded. To me that says the staff are probably in a bad way too – be interesting to hear their side of the story, its a bit sus that the manager broke both his legs in an “accident” the same day that MAF arrives.
The report from a former employee working on the Hawkes Bay farms makes me angry. This business of taking a chainsaw to a calf – wtf – thats sick – who does that? Cows kept in concentration camps run by egotistical men who have’nt got the sense to call a vet when a cow needs calving – theres at least a dozen vets in the Bay that could calve a cow and I’m pretty confident none of them would use a chainsaw. Mind you listening to the stories sounds like Crafars don’t use vets – and to think that they were touted as being the model farmer, keeping their animal health costs down – yeah right – now we know how – just ignore every problem, borrow more money, treat people and animals badly and protest your innocence in the media.
Top marks to the people who had the courage to put this on the internet.
People doing this and allowing this to happen to animals don’t deserve to be called NZers and certainly should not be allowed to farm animals.
MAF should not be turning a blind eye to this or any other dairy farm with similar problems.
September 29th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
Good work
September 29th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
Many congratulations Bernard. Excellent work. As you are aware, this is not the one off as the dairy industry would have us believe. Didn’t we hear the same tired refrain on behalf of the pig farmers? Actually institutionalised cruelty is part and parcel of the industry and the only question we have to ask is where does one draw the line. Obviously these peasants have set new records. Part of the problem are the ignormuses most farms employ at the coal face, most of whom would need a manual to dress themselves. But to really pin point the source of the problem one only has to follow the money. Numerous vets I have spoken to admit to witnessing numerous examples of abuse. In nearly all cases I have been told of their frustrations in dealing with that defunct entity MAF. If the vet complains to MAF, the culprit pretty swiftly drops them and uses another vet, preferably sporting a blind eye. The minister responsible David Carter once again deafens us with his silence. Time for him to fall on his sword.
September 29th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
Alan is that an agnorant pig I see flying past the window or is that an insult to pigs.
A number eight fencing wire mentality for a brain obviously.
A woman can think for herself surprise, surprise.
I don’t need my husbands permission to protest about cruelity to animals
or yours for that matter.
September 29th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
My family are also heavily involved in dairying, I have milked cows for a number of years and would consider myself to be experienced and knowledgable. Our farm is run completely differently to the factory system and always has been. Of primary concern is our stock and we make sure we have more than enough food (grass/crops and brought in supplement)and that we have adequate staff with the appropriate skill sets and training (and while we only have 1500 cows and not the 20000 that Crafarms do we make a reasonable living). I have been involved in dairying all my life and still work in the rural sector as a consultant and was disgusted with this video-Yes it was disgusting neglect, but the fact people on this site prepared to tar all farmers with the same brush angers me. We should not forget that a large amount of the prosperity that this country enjoys is on the back of the dairy industry and yes it does have rogues in it, but for the most part dairy farmers are hard working and genuinely love the land and care for there stock. Untill you have worked a spring on a dairy farm (which when i started in the industry was 4am untill 6.30pm with one day off a month for the princely wage of $200 a week) then feel free to take up a job on one so you will actually be able to comment from experience.
September 29th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
Having lived in Benneydale when young I can say it is a rough and ready frontier kind of place but the people were not mean. Things went badly, badly wrong here but how much was inexperience, how much was bad management and how much was deliberate callousness and cruelty is still anybody’s guess for now.
I am sad that it happened, and even sadder at how the calves were put down before MAF arrived. Having done some vet science, I know that the vital arteries in calves’ necks are well protected by bone and (unlike sheep who black out in seconds) cutting a calf’s throat usually means a slow death over minutes.
It’s lucky that most kiwis are decent people because politicians are far more worried about stopping things like night classes than they are about treating the rest of the living world decently and our laws reflect this.
Not just on land either. New Zealand is one of the few developed nations that has effectively done nothing to stop shark-finning in our vast territorial waters too. Because it is faster not to kill these poor fish first, they usually have their appendages cut off and are tossed off the boat to die slowly and horribly. This happens so much that recreational shark catches of most species have fallen by about 90% in the last 15 years. Australia at least requires the boats to keep the bodies by insisting that not more than 10% by weight of shark on a boat can be fins.
We have much to be ashamed of. Maybe our catchline should be ‘New Zealand: 100% Pure Cruelty’.
I eat meat, and – when younger – killed more animals than most men living (mainly fish, possums, rabbits etc but when necessary also sheep, pigs and cattle) but I always did my best to be as humane as possible about it. Now I live in the city and I cannot be so sure my food lived and died well.
There is probably more cruelty and destruction pressed into one supermarket fish finger than there is in the average packet of veal but how are we to know?
If people are appalled when it is as obvious as it was on this farm, it also gives some hope for reigning in such far bigger institutionalised cruelty when it is finally exposed.
September 29th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
What about the manager of this farm, come on?
With 22 odd farms you cannot expect Allan to be up with the play on all his and his family farms all the time. Im not saying that all this is acceptable, but give the guy a break…
Some of you have cheek saying he probably hasnt milked a cow ofr years… well I hope you have the facts on that one eco phil… he is all about making money… maybe, but all his money would go straight back into the farms… They dont live a lavish lifestyle, and they work bloody hard to put bread on the table…
TALL POPPY at its best – you should all be ashamed…
September 29th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
My goodness I had no idea that only farmers did a decent days work in this country, and only they put in meaningful hours, and the fact that all the rest of us are useless shirkers. I must have imagined all my wife’s call outs at God knows what hour of the morning (when human lives were at stake,not just where a pint of milk was coming from), the midnight dashes across town to get to the hospital, and all the other unpleasantnesses of being an overworked health professional. Yep I must have dreamed it all, but then we live in a town………
September 29th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Don’t be naive andy, it is not the same. We are not bagging health professionals here I am responding to people bagging dairy farmers without having walked a mile in there shoes. I have worked in the emergency services so have experienced being on call (and yes the pager always goes off at 2.a.m) however I have never been as physically knackered as I have in the spring on a dairy farm. Funnily enough I know all the people involved here and while I am by no means sticking up for Crafars I do know the managers and my experience they have always been courteous enough but while I believe the neglect is serious we should try and understand why it has happened and try and prevent a repeat not just throw rocks and uninformed opinion around.
September 29th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
Actually tom its a mantra we hear again and again. It goes something like ‘we are farmers, we work damn hard so don’t you dare try and criticise’.
Frankly it doesn’t wash.
September 29th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
I’m not saying don’t dare criticise, what I am saying is look at the facts or inquire more into the industry as a whole before damning the lot. With you wife being a health professional if something went wrong with a patient of one of her colleagues how would you feel if the faceless masses on the blogsite beat it up before the inquest/inquiry? How would you feel if say perhaps they started to throw blame at the whole of your wifes profession so she felt guilty by association? (Not that we would as we all appreciate health professionals-administrators however-sorry I digress). Please all of you not all Dairy Farmers are like this so stop making out they are.
September 29th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
No one is suggesting that all dairy farmers are like this. I certainly dont think I have seen anyone suggest that. However ignoring the reality of operations such as the Crafer’s (and lets face it they have a long list of other prosecutions against them) does no-one in the industry any good. For me the real eye-opener was that MAF have only a handful of inspectors to deal with thousands of farms. Why is that?
September 29th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
Money…. And no it doesn’t do the industry any good. There have also been plenty of replies saying words to the effect that all the farmers are interested in is money (yes for some that is true-as it is in any profession), however there are a large number of dairy farmers that do plant riparian strips, that do look after stock, that train there staff properly and give them adequate pay and time off, there are also plenty that have been using nutrient budgets and sustainable practices long before EW and E-Can etc told them they had to. Perhaps we should be spending more on MAF and Border Control but in the current economic clime I would be surprised if the money was found.
September 29th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
Well Andy – look who is in charge of MAF
http://hondavidcarter.blogspot.com/
Nice work too, Bernard and Co.
September 29th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
Maybe someone should send him the link to this blog (or maybe one of his staffers would-I would be surprised if MAF had more inspectors than the minister has media liaison staff, advisors, P/A’s, image consultamts etc).
September 29th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
David 5.26pm
Big guys actually take care of all those in their charge. If they don’t, they’re not big. I would recommend that both you and FF read “Mutual Aid” by Piotyr Kropotkin, a treatise on seeming altruism among wild animals (wolves) and an explanation of why altruism is an adaptive behaviour.
It is not reason that distinguishes humans from other creatures. Other creatures do, actually, have reason. They learn very well what they need to, they learn to distinguish friend from foe, to adopt the default position of suspicion until trust is earned.
What distinguishes humans from other creatures is a) their superior intellect combined with b) their superior ability to empathise.
We intellectually understand that we cannot know for sure, when an electrode is placed on a sensitive part of another creature’s anatomy, precisely what it is feeling. But we do understand pain response. And we also intellectually understand that starving creatures show scientifically verifiable signs of physiological distress.
What makes us human, rather than Vulcan, is the ability to realise that physiological distress equates suffering, to be moved by that, to feel emotional distress because of it and to work to prevent it.
Humans are imperfect creatures. We worry far too much about how we appear to the outside world, what others think of us, whether we’ll lose status. In that way, we are just another species of social animal.
If we truly want to be something other than just another social animal, then we have to be concerned with applying our intellect to achieving what is right, what is ethical. And unnecessary suffering is never ethical
September 29th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
Goodness me the suffering you just put me through reading that long winded reply could hardly have been ethical (although only mildly painful-and I am sure that others will feel empathy towards me!).
September 29th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
tomjr
I sympathise with the confusion you must be feeling, but unfortunately, for you, I am unable to empathise with it.
September 29th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
andy hamilton:
That is an excellent question. And lets remember MAF includes our Food Safety Authority and Biosecurity.
What is MAF there for? I would suggest it primary role is to protect NZ’s revenue from agriculture. Anything else is secondary.
The last time I heard MAF’s Director General speaking, and it was on a food safety issue, he said words to the effect “I want to shut this down as quickly as possible”.
I had difficulty believing that I had heard what he said, but it did very clearly suggest where MAF was coming from.
September 29th, 2009 at 10:50 pm
Thank you for an excellent piece of investigative journalism. The treatment of the calves is absolutely disgraceful, any reasonable person knows how to get an animal to feed. If I treated my pet dog the same as these calves have been treated I’m sure I would be dealt with. I’m sick and tired of dairy farmers seemingly given preferential treatment and what appear to be minimal fines for mistreatment and environmental transgressions. Having lived overseas I can see that if this episode goes international it will have extremely negative ramifications for our farming industry as a whole – even though most smaller farmers are generally good people and have a lot of care and concern for their animals. Factory farming on the Crafer Farms scale isn’t farming, it’s just mass production of food with little or no concern for outcomes. What will we see next in New Zealand – massive American style feedlots? I can hardly wait.
September 29th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
This is just the tip of the ice berg. I have seen many cases of calves left to starve on dairy farms, and the SPCA is just not interested.
September 29th, 2009 at 11:25 pm
As a farm manager I take responsibility for my actions. As a farm owner Crafarm’s should do the same. This is not a one off animal welfare case, it is several animals. This is not only an animal welfare problem, the farms have been found guilty of environmental breahes on many farms over many seasons!
To blame daylight savings, EW, Bankers, Greenies, poor management, tall poppie syndrome etc etc is proof to me of the Crafarm’s ability and respect for NZ farming.
No wonder the farming company is effectively bankcrupt. But that was the banks fault and bad timing lol.
I am not affraid of saying my piece rather than sitting on the fence! Pitty my so called farming leaders don’t have the balls.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:17 am
I agree with DC’s replacement
This is not an isolated incident, this guy has been investigated by MAF heaps of times (20 or so) and for the deaths of hundreds of animals and over several years. The vets and people that have worked for him are saying here that there is no point in reporting it to MAF as nothing will happen.
I am surprised that they can get away with this for so long – but it seems that its only the financial crisis that has bought this to a close, no thanks to MAF.
How bad do you have to be before you get prosecuted – and whats with a 200$ fine for so many counts of cruelty – I’ve had bigger fines for speeding, and the only thing harmed was my wallet.
This guys management practices or lack thereof have caused hundreds of animals to die a heap of miserable deaths, and he’s completely in denial about it, and MAF do bugger all. This is real harm – and Mr Falafulu Fisi – I think you will reap what you have sown.
This is not tall poppy syndrome speaking – its outrage at injustice.
This is not the first time this has happened and without some significant deterant it will happen again as the blogs on here clearly demonstrate – you think that animals have no rights.
September 30th, 2009 at 2:08 am
Garry Says:
September 28th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
are you blind!!! the calves are being maltreated and are starving, if you can treat animals right you have no place on a farm.
there is nothing honest, hardworking or kiwi about cruelty to animals you blind idiot!
I think its time to take your hand out of the crafars pockets,mate! why else would even think what you did write!
September 30th, 2009 at 2:50 am
What I do not understand is if this guys motive is greed, why does he let all these valuable calves die? No wonder he is owes so much, because if this is his animal management practices then his farms must be underproducing to a massive degree. Good animal husbandry, well managed & trained staff and sustainable land development equal profits and reduced borrowings.
September 30th, 2009 at 2:55 am
@matt.
They’re not valuable.
They’re an unwanted byproduct (male offspring) and they get fed until they can be slaughtered.
Price ranges from 25c to 80c/k http://www.agridata.co.nz/calf-bobby.asp
The profit margin must be paper-thin
September 30th, 2009 at 3:11 am
Sorry John B – bobby calves are slaughtered within 2-3 days of birth I thought, these bobby calves then must have been forgotten to be picked up, so it is meat processing companies fault? My comment was more to the point that if not maximising returns on calves then they probably are losing money through poor management of farms as a whole, unless this was only area they are poor in and everything else was excellent (unlikely). His return on the dead calves and wasted milk was 0c per kg no need to look at agridata.co.nz for that.
September 30th, 2009 at 3:37 am
@ Matt
From Bernard’s report (and my understanding) the calves need to be fed until they’re transported to the works.
It’s not the meat company’s fault if they’re not picked up – the driver will determine whether or not the state of the animals is acceptable for transportation. It’s the farm manager’s responsibility for the welfare of the animals until they’re picked up and to dispose of them humanely otherwise.
The farms’ core business is producing milk fat. Anything else is marginal. I’d like to think that the milking operation is run to a higher standard, but it’s unlikely.
September 30th, 2009 at 5:36 am
Rearing bobbies this season means a cash loss per head, though this is not great compared to total farm returns. Most seasons bobbies are only marginally profitable anyway.
But then the Crafar operation was always about capital gain, not cash returns. And a small loss per calf doesn’t justify neglect to the point of starvation.
The Crafars look likely to be home free, at least on animal welfare.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/farming/2915226/Crafars-may-escape-charge
September 30th, 2009 at 8:33 am
The actions on this farm (or inaction as the case may be) are appalling, though I do agree with the sentiment of some other comments that this is an unusual story to run on a financial information website. Even more unusual that journalists from the website travelled to the farm to get the “scoop”.
Is interest.co.nz planning on mutating in to something more like “60 Minutes”? Have the recession stories all gone cold and a new “hot” topic is needed? 305 comments so far and as BH said “this thread here looks set to be the record for 2009″
I guess so long as the whistle has been blown, it’s not really important who blew it, though I think it would have been a better look to stick with running this story in the Herald.
September 30th, 2009 at 9:01 am
“I think it would have been a better look to stick with running this story in the Herald”…trouble is Murray, The Herald was too busy with fashion shows and piffle stories aimed at a readership with a reading age of 12 to show any interest in this matter and as for your suggestion that this is not a financial matter….rubbish. Have a wee think about it.
September 30th, 2009 at 10:25 am
Wally, I didn’t say there weren’t obvious financial implications, I’m just saying it seems odd for a financial info based website to be investigating animal welfare stories, though I support anything that brings these stories in to the limelight.
September 30th, 2009 at 10:36 am
Murray : If you watch Bernard’s interview with Wendy Petrie , you will find his motivations expounded . And indeed , B & B did us a favour in exposing this story . It hasn’t been glossed over , or trivilised . BH grew up on a dairy farm , so he has informed observation , not just a journo’s opinion . The story fits in with this web-site , in that dairying is our largest export industry . And the Crafars are the single biggest supplier to Fonterra . Fonterra is the primary export company within the industry . Kind of ” join…the…dots ” and you see the relevance emerge . BH broke the story . BS broke a fist with his head ……….. We each do what we can !
September 30th, 2009 at 10:43 am
Roger
I have no issue with BH ‘breaking the story’, What I don’t agree with is his lighting the torch, leading the mob and slinging the rope over the nearest tree branch, Similarly Carters comments were il-considered, we have legal processes in NZ for a reason, we need to temper this populist mob behaviour
Neven
September 30th, 2009 at 10:58 am
This all about the NZ Economy…..and the total GREED that pervades the NZ based theory that ANYTHING goes to ensure CAPITAL GAIN….except work.
I used to know one of the CRAFARS…when he was employed as a farm Labourer.
And that is the trouble, NO management skills, nor experience, just $ signs, powered by the BANKS desire to FUEL the CAPITAL GAINS fiasco to the point of OBLIVION.
Likewise…FONTERRA.
Perhaps they all need a little ECONOMIC training from our illustrious PROPHET
e-CONOMISTs that act as mouth pieces for the BANKS…to ensure a PROFIT.
Now they resort to stealing from the ELDERLY and gullible overseas investors…to ensure that a PROFIT is still made in the short term.
The next phase will be CAPITAL LOSS, as is apparent all round the world, except of course that would never happen in GOD’s Own.
SPIN and more SPIN..a few dismal distractions like this….and of course the POLITICIANS on a JUNKET, themselves with no BUSINESS sense.
No wonder we are at the mercy of the BANKERS who can do what they like to ensure a PROFIT, ably aided and abetted by MR BOLLARDS.
Seems like we need a FACEBOOK or some such trivia to make some REAL MONEY.
or maybe we can INFLATE the problem away…..NO REALLY.
SHAME on the lot of you.
September 30th, 2009 at 10:59 am
Neven : The legal processes have slapped small $ 200 fines , on these guys , for previous transgressions . Cruelty to animals , illegal dumping of effluent into water-ways . Does this seem to be good farming practises to you ? Our image overseas , the ” 100 % ” moniker , is being destroyed by filthy production , where-ever it occurs . There is also the little matter of a $ 200 m. debt that the Crafars cannot service .
The majority of the bloggers have been measured in their responses . Hardly a lynching party . And a few have supported the Crafars . Some have given personal insights into the family , from first hand experience . Unfair to label all as ” populist mob behaviour ” .
September 30th, 2009 at 10:59 am
One cannot make friends with bad news. I still remember telling (early 2008) local Businesses/ Council of the upcoming recession the majority didn’t talk to me anymore. They probably thought I’m evil. My only intention was to help.
The agriculture industry should be thankful to Bernhard and his team.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:12 am
Exactly W.Kunz.
“You cannot carry a torch through a crowd without setting someone’s beard on fire.”
Another one for the Crafars,
“He who has a big roof shovels much snow”
A farm that size needs expert and careful management,
September 30th, 2009 at 11:19 am
Well ‘the lynch mob metaphor’ was bound to appear eventually.
As I recall its the title of chapter seven (chapter six is ‘How to shoot the messenger’), from the book ‘How to defend the indefensible, and avoid taking action at any costs’ written by Ivor Nastylittlesecret and published by Whitewash and Sons.
September 30th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Will be happy to see Crafers exit the dairy industry as there list of animal and enviromental problems have been well documented of the last couple of years and are tarnishing all dairy farmers reputations. 99% of dairy farmers care deeply for the animals under there care and generally make certain there animals are fed before they are, but with the change from family and medium sized farms to the larger factory sized farms of over a 1000 cows there is a disconnect between farmer and animal.
In saying that i still have doubts about the above article and Bernard Hickeys supposed knowledge of dairy farming practices and animal behavior, even well fed calves will suck each others navels, and moo when someone enters the calf pen, and dehydration is a symptom of scours not just under feeding as was stated earlier by Hickey.
September 30th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
Bernard and Bryan are the real villains of this whole saga.
The layabouts on this website who condone BH exploiting such a visceral response from the public so that he can bolster his deflated ego (since he was DEAD WRONG on house prices) and attempt to make himself both a business kingmaker and executioner is downright disgusting.
Hickey deserves no respect for this foray into the gutter.
Derision is all he deserves.
September 30th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Andy Hamiliton
If BH had one iota of integrity he would have laid complaints with the appropriate entities and impartially aired his concerns.
Witch-hunters and ringleaders of lynch mobs are never admirable.
September 30th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
I doubt that this practice is restricted purely to the Crafar’s; I’ve seen similar on other farms. I have to question not only the farming practice but also the financial acumen of dairy farmers who take out all their Fonterra profits in milk solids payments leaving no retained earnings to fund future growth and diversification away from commodity product into value added product – remember Fonterra IS the dairy farmer. The wheel will turn full circle and the boom will go bust if things don’t change; Fonterra will never realise its potential as a world market leader while it is run by those dairy farmers who are driven purely by minimising costs to maximise payout.
September 30th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Chris_J:
Personally I find those who seek to cover up abuses by seeking to attack the messenger rather than dealing with the message as beneath contempt (but then perhaps thats just me).
September 30th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Just to give people an idea on bobby calve prices we averged between $2-$10 per calf this year for 4 day old claves (which is the youngest they can be before sending on truck)
September 30th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Its unbelievable the idiots who think if you “hear no evil, speak no evil” then it doesn’t really exist. Look at all the americans who didn’t want anybody criticising Bush because it was unpatriotic. That’s how you end up with fascism. We need more investigative journalism not less.
I’ve lost count of how many people I’ve spoken to who think a recession is just negative thinking, in the mind, and if you ignore it and keep borrowing and spending everything will be okay. Its just a variation of the above mindset.
September 30th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
Well I have never been shy and retiring, so here goes. Firstly thanks to Bernard and Bryan for bringing my video to light. I took it because I was desperate to find some accountability for this debacle. As it was playing out no-one was going to be made responsible. And many actually played their part.
The Manager tried to get help. He asked for more staff. He had been in the job just weeks. The vehicles and machinery were all falling apart. The shed had been partly dismantled.
He knew he could not cope and told me so.
It is an 1800 cow farm, with very poor facilities for calf rearing. More suited to a 200 cow farm. The Crafars have had more than 5 years to put suitable facilities in, instead they bought more farms.
Because staff is limited, cows line up in the morning to be calved. So usually dead calves dead cows are the result. This was their priority. Right or wrong.
After 2 weeks of seeing starving calves and listening to excuses, I decided to phone the ‘experts’.
The experts let me down. They were notified on Saturday midday. Nothing had been done by monday. MAF were told calves were starving to death in big numbers Saturday.
Monday midday I could not get through to maf, I left a message begging them to do something, or I would phone a tv station. I was phoned back and MAF told me they would not take pictures or take evidence. They would go there and clean up the mess. They would not take a prosecution. The inspector told me he had phoned the supervisor of this farm to get out there and fix the problems.
MAF are not doing their job. I dont blame this particular inspector, he had another a**hole to deal with before he came to Crafars. If there is no budget to work weekends that is not his fault. Does he have the backup to take prosecutions, who knows. But we must find this out.
I am a farmer. I know what I am looking at when I see a calf in distress. I have reared thousands of calves now over the last 20 years. For some time I refused to look in the shed, because I knew I would see bad stuff. I gave these guys time to get it right. But things got worse. Some calves were sick with scours, most were just not fed.
The pictures show nothing compared to what was there in the few days and hours before I shot the short video .
I did help in some small way that day. But I had animals to attend to at home. My apologies to some of the young men up there who seemed so stressed and overworked. I envision them in an awful web the Crafars wind around there workers creating an environment of hope early in the season then dispair with broken promises. I have seen this year after year there.
This is beyond many of us farmers, we are dispairing of what is happening beside us and around us. I have chosen to bring it to the media so it can be bashed to bits and maybe something good can come from something pretty awful.
Do I want to hurt other farmers and Fonterra. Not on your nellie. My farming interests lie in the success of Fonterra.
This forum may seem unusual to some for this topic, however the comment here is usually of the intelligent and informed. And seemed a safe area to start.
Finally a mention for the calves: there was the big healthy newborn ayrshire, brilliant red and white, a heifer. 2 days later, starved hollow, hoarse from bellowing. The little wee jersey girl, half dead, but so desperate she got on the bottle and sucked and sucked for her life. The mid sized friesian heifer, once she realised I had a bottle she followed me round and wouldnt let me out of her sight. Sooo many others, and I remember them. The black one on the ground I thought was dead, but was just hanging in there.
I came home that night, fed a crook little friesian boy of my own, and while sitting with him, shed my tears of horror and frustration. All those calves were killed.
MAF have had many visits to this farm. None of these at my request. Why did it get to this. Why should it be left to people like me to go through all this soul searching, the stress, the fear, the am I right am I wrong. This is not my job. I’m not the picture of perfection. It is gut wrenching to be in this position.
So there you go.
I hope this industry does some soul searching.Thank you Bernard for your help and I urge others to be braver and speak up quicker than I.
September 30th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
I have just heard rumour that a lender has sent recievers in to Crafarms this morning. If this is true (and I stress that it may not be) then let the gloating and wisdom in hindsight begin….
But just remember, while a family is in the process of losing everything they’ve worked for over the last 35 years (see my post yesterday at 1.20pm), let’s not lose sight of the bigger picture: have the policies, economic settings and monitoring/enforcement resources of successive NZ Govts, and the profit-driven lending policies of the banks driven or allowed farming in this country to get to a “factory” scale that is unsustainable and/or unmanageable, and which puts the country’s reputation in international markets at risk?
Personally I don’t think large-scale farming should be a problem – it’s a competitive advantage and should be sustainable if managed well. But I think we (Government, banks, dairy companies) have some serious catching up to do in terms of making sure that such operations as the Crafars’ are properly and prudently managed, monitored, and are not so low cost/highly-leveraged/profit-driven as to put at risk this country’s precious reputation in international markets.
Yes the Crafars are to a large extent the authors of the situation they now find themselves in (even though once again they were not personally responsible at the front line for this most recent tragic incident). But the real question is are they but one example of a wider systemic problem in NZ agriculture?
September 30th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Good on you Farmer. Unfortunately this is another sign of the degeneration of NZ’s 100% pure brand under the present leadership both in politics and in the farming industry. Coupled with the recent action and reaction concerning palm extract, it is only a matter of time before consumers lose trust in the NZ brand. Once you have lost the trust of consumers then it is a hard battle to regain it. We certainly need some new leadership in this department. The attitudes of the present leadership in the industry seems to be that they have the right to keep sticking it into the consumer as much as they like and they expect that consumers will just keep accepting it and buying their product however it is produced. Sorry but that is short-termism at its worst. You need to focus on the quality of your product – for food in the present consumer climate of increasing concerns about ‘environmental’ issues that means that it must be ‘100% pure’ in reality not just in spin.
September 30th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
MJ, your question ” are they but one example of a wider systemic problem in NZ agriculture”?…don’t hold your breath for an inquiry. The whitewash will be ordered by the milk tanker full and slobbered over everything. Re the post from “Just another farmer’ which no doubt you have now read. This matter is screaming out for a full Royal Commission of Inquiry, not your run of the mill BS Ministerial coverup inquiry. The truth needs to be found out. Instead you can expect the carpet to bulge as the calves get swept under it by the govt.
September 30th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Just another Farmer you did well. If I was up your way I’d be the first to give you a free day’s work on your farm to show my appreciation.
People here realise there are good farmers and there are bad farmers (including those that close an eye to this). No one wants the industry brought down because of the unacceptable behaviour of a few, what we want is the bad ones removed so the overall quality of the industry is raised. Some of us are consumers (I for one like real butter in my home cooking), some of us are investors either directly or indirectly in the farming industry (we understand shortcuts and poor management costs money) and we all of us care about animal welfare – the future will be better with this brought to light – I think there is real pressure for improvements.
Once again thanks.
September 30th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
Just another farmer says ‘…am I right am I wrong’
Mate, you get a vote of confidence from me.
I’ve done plenty of hunting and fishing in my day and was taught well in respecting what you were hunting. And being hands on in filling my own freezer, and also knowing people who have grown up on farms and also worked in meat works, I reckon I’m well aware of where my lamb roast and where my bacon comes from in the supermarket. But reading your account is pretty gut wrenching.
Keep your chin up.
Also, good to hear some background and a bit of support for the workers tangled up in this mess.
September 30th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
Murray,
“I guess so long as the whistle has been blown, it’s not really important who blew it, though I think it would have been a better look to stick with running this story in the Herald.”
Has it ever occurred to you that many people reading and posting on this website are doing so because the so-called ‘mainstream media’ seem not interested in real old fashioned journalism anymore, and focus solely on gathering ad revenue? Likewise the TV channels. Great to see BH to follow up on an issue which has been quietly brewing here for some time!
September 30th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Thanks Farmer for sharing this story, unfortunately there’s nothing in your story that I haven’t heard or seen before. The animal neglect is the result of people stressed to the max. In a normal working envirolment things like this are unlikely to happen.
This is just another example of a poorly set up farm for a quick capital gain.
NZ farming is changeing at a fast pace, there is a new application in the upper Waitaki for consent to milk 22000 cows by only a handfull of proppertydevelopers, we are not
going to see 50 or so dairyfarming families move in to the area. If this is the future of NZ dairyfarming we beter get used to more of these storys.
September 30th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
‘Just another farmer’ deserves respect and congratulations. That is a heartfelt comment, and the actions well justified.
Certainly, in my 50+ years of farming I have never heard such a saga of greed, folly and cruelty.
This shambles is – and most of us still find it hard to believe – the largest dairy farming operation in NZ. The rest of us are now tarred with the same brush, and we are holding our breaths, hoping some overseas news agency does not pick up the story.
The headlines from Paris or Brussels are easily imagined.
September 30th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
So shocking good on you for breaking the story.Does anyone care though about the cruelty to the animals themselves or just about the Farmers, Fonterra MAF and the MONEY what does this sort of behaviour say about the people themselves, and the people who allow it. Where does the buck stop and what an attitude “shit who cares their only bobby calves” cant wait to see how these so called staff members treat their animals or God fordbid their children maybe there should be a wider scale enquirey embarked on. This seems to be a story with maybe a conspiracy theory just waiting to be uncovered. Perhaps fonterra, MAF or the Dairy Board should be looked into.
September 30th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
Well done Just another Farmer to bring this in to the open. With NZ’s heavy reliance on Fonterra for the country’s exports (27% of total exports for the F08 year and contributing 5% of total GDP) the country is very exposed overseas to any negative image attached to our dairy industry. There are plenty of other dairy producing countries who would love to see Fonterra knocked down a peg or two. What is absolutely amazing is the token policing of the industry by Fonterra across a wide range of factors, particularly animal health and welfare. All very well blaming bad farmers, the banks, the government – but the bottom line is the responsibility for good industry governance should rest with Fonterra itself acting in the interests of ALL its shareholders. It’s time for Fonterra to stop paying lip service and start acting to properly police the industry – and the government needs to give more teeth to MAF considering the importance of our dairy industry to the whole economy.
September 30th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
To all
For any doubters about ‘Just another Farmer’s’ comments above, I can verify that they are from the farmer who gave us the video.
http://www.interest.co.nz/ratesblog/index.php/2009/09/28/exclusive-nzs-biggest-dairy-farmer-allows-calves-to-starve-to-death/#comment-39559
‘Just another farmer’ is extremely brave and should be congratulated by the dairy industry and New Zealanders widely. Blowing the whistle on someone in your own industry is an extraordinarily difficult thing to do. ‘Just another Farmer’ did this knowing there were some real risks to this farmer’s own physical safety and livelihood.
Bryan was assaulted by the farm manager on the Crafar Farm and ‘Just another Farmer’ knew this when deciding to go public.
I grew up on a dairy farm. I know how tight these communities are and how reliant farmers are on others in that industry. The Crafar Farms operation is huge and still powerful. Allan Crafar told me he would rather shoot a human than a calf. He also said the farm manager should have hit Bryan harder.
I would like to put in my vote for ‘Just another farmer’ as New Zealander of the year.
Cheers
Bernard
September 30th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
@Geoff Dawson, Fonterra is an example of the inmates running the nut-house – what else do you expect?
@Farmer, well done dude. Ballsy call, and I’m sure you’ll be relieved and comforted by the supportive comment seen on this and related threads. I worked in a industry a few years back that was very dangerous, and known to be. Because it became obvious it could not police itself after a various incidents involving loss of human life, the relevant government authority set up a confidential near-miss and incident reporting line for anyone to make reports. That industry has beome much safer, I believe. I’m not suggesting we need such a thing in NZ for dairy, IF, the apropriate entities can get things in gear. Anyway, the point I want to make to you is, what you’ve done has maybe saved NZ a whole heap of trouble further down the track. The ball now however is with MAF, Fonterra and dare I say it, NZ government. Let’s hope they can get in gear and make this an opportunity for positive change.
September 30th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Thank you for your courage and dignity, Just another Farmer. I had the privilege of owning a small holding next to a 24k hctr. station in Otago a few years back. As a ‘city-to-the-country’ first timer I saw how dedicated and hard working farmers of sheep and cattlebeast are in a sometimes brutal and hostile environment. And for all of that, cruelty and lack of compassion for the animals was never tolerated as part of the business. You made the right call on asking Bernard for his help.
September 30th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
Just another Farmer: Good on you. I take off my hat to you.
September 30th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
I congratulate both you and the farmer for exposing such animal cruelty. It must have been a very hard decision for both to leak the story. We need to herald you both.
Many thanks
Jayson
September 30th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
Agriculture Minister David Carter has ordered a full review of all Crafar Farms
http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/minister+orders+wider+inspection+crafar+farms
This is only the start
cheers
Bernard
September 30th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
..and what about talks/ actions to the almost inevitable (brewing) clash between Tourism and Animal farming & forestry?
100% Pure / Green & Clean ?????
September 30th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
Not nearly enough Minister…nowhere near enough. To suggest the problem is confined to the Crafar company has to be very foolish at best. A full and unrestricted inquiry into the whole industry is the least that should happen.
September 30th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
Well done Farmer and Bernard for helping to bring this to a head – I doubt the MSM would have done anything as effective, left to their own devices.
None of the farmers I know have expressed anything but disgust with the Crafar situation – it was totally avoidable, and if the authorities had acted sooner (years ago) this tragedy might have been avoided.
I agree there needs to be a proper inquiry into the long term viability of industrial dairy farming in NZ, but by the same token, if our regulatory authorities had done their jobs (and had the resources to follow through) we wouldn’t be in this situation.
September 30th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
Just another Farmer : You Sir , are now a legend . Real farmers do care about their stock . You are the heart and soul of what it means to be a cockie in our fine land . Bravo !
September 30th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
Bernard, I bet you have a thousand things to do, but based on MAF’s track record on this issue I would feel more comfortable with the MAF inspectors being accompanied by another party – I simply don’t trust that they can do a good job (Farmer’s comments back this up). I’m not sure who that should be, but a senior SPCA representative could be an option. Thoughts?
Unfortunately, the time taken to inspect will also mean time to destroy evidence.
September 30th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
Federated Farmers have a lot to answer for. Their last president, Petersen, cranked up the rhetoric well beyond the usual, and the incumbent is only marginally better. They have been running dog-whistle lines against ‘compliance costs’, government ‘meddling’, the RMA etc etc for the last few years. And with the connivance of, if not encouragement from, the National Party of course.
Most of what they asked for last year is in the process of being delivered. Left the Kyoto costs to the taxpayer. Rorted Telecom for rural broadband. Renewed the High Country Hijack.
Crafars rantings have to be seen in this light. He is just the rough edge of Feds agenda, and farmers collectively have to take some responsibility for this.
September 30th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
Mike
Your last name isn’t King is it.?
Your rhetoric sounds like a broken record
Quote ” All pigs will make a noise when you enter their pens”
You need to get your head out of your neather region and stop trying to justify what are blatant cases of animal cruelity at the higher end of the scale.
If the Bobby calf prices are so low and the cheaper option is to not feed them and allow them to starve to death.
What is the purpose of breeding the calves in the first place?
How are these lowlife allowed to continue treating animals inhumanely with impunity.
It’s high time MAF and the SPCA started employing people with a spine.
Just another farmer
You are not just another farmer you are a wonderful caring man.This country needs more people like you.
You are standing up for what is right,… caring compassion >>>over profit and that is a rare thing these days.
Like Sam I would also offer you help on the farm if needed.
You are more than welcome to contact me
You are rare gem and yes you are right
September 30th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Just A Farmer, Bernard Hickey, Thank God there are still decent people left in New Zealand. Your numbers may becoming fewer as the years go by but stick to your principals and NZ will still be a good place in the years ahead. Greed is what is doing the damage. Our family thanks you both.
September 30th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Roger,
I agree real farmers care about their stock – as they should considering its their investment and provides their livelihood. The trouble is there are cowboys in any industry and the only way they can be squeezed out and protect the overall industry reputation is if the industry has the teeth to enforce things properly. Look at the finance industry as a prime example of insufficient regulatory policing – the mechanisms were in place but not adequately policed. Once again, given the vital importance of this industry to the whole economy, the Government (as in MAF) and Fonterra itself both need to sharply lift their acts and stop talking the talk and start walking the walk.
September 30th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
Unfortunately, the time taken to inspect will also mean time to destroy evidence.
Especially if they are phoned and warned in advance Sam.
Makes one wonder who is scratching whos back and whos not paying.
Or could it be that they can’t find a pen to write up the paper work.
September 30th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
Oh dear, I’m only just realising the implications here.
Up to now I was thinking of it as an unfortunate incident involving a cruel man.
I now fear it is much wider and deeper than that.
Clearly Crafar Farms are totally incompetent. But, it is also being revealed that this is a long standing issue, clearly the incompentence was widely known about by Fonterra, Maf, BNZ, Rabobank, PGC and the local council.
Unfortunately they are thus also proven incompetent.
The bankers are clearly incompetent as they have lent more than the business is worth.
MAF don’t look good although they did take some action.
How can a business like Fonterra which presumably has quality management experts on the payroll have turned a blind eye to key quality standards?
If you turn a blind eye to quality issues in one part of your organisation what does it say to the staff in the other areas?
I had thought the San Lu affair was just executive folly due to working in an unfamiliar environment. But this is just as much a quality management issue.
Is a deep disregard for quality management endemic?
September 30th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
Roger Witherspoon – can you please clarify BNZ’s involvement, I had not seen them mentioned previously.
September 30th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
OOps! My apologies to BNZ, they are not involved. In my laziness I didn’t check the article again and went from memory, that should have been Westpac, Rabobank and PGG Wrightson Finance.
This is what happens when I think out loud I’m afraid.
September 30th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
Jan Says:
September 30th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
If the Bobby calf prices are so low and the cheaper option is to not feed them and allow them to starve to death.
What is the purpose of breeding the calves in the first place?
Jan , just to answer this question , the Cows are put in calf so the cows will produce milk , recovering alot of money from bobby calves is a bonus , they are a byproduct of the main income .
September 30th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
Roger Witherspoon – Fonterra do indeed have quality management systems in place, and milk from farms is tested on a daily basis, and graded and paid for accordingly.
I am currently unaware if there was anything wrong with the milk being sent from this farm to Fonterra, therefore, what reason would they have for the alarm bells to be ringing.
There are agencies in place to assist farmers who are struggling with issues, that is not Fonterra’s function, however for these agencies to work, first they need to be asked for help or informed there is a problem.
JustAFarmer, I totally commend you for being on the property doing the neighbourly thing and trying to help before you reported the issues, it obviously wasn’t getting better and you had done all you could, it sounds bad all around if the manager had only been in place two weeks, what happened to the previous manager?
September 30th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
Thank you for answering my question BJ.
If the price is” to low” for any sort of profit, is it common practice to just not bother feeding the bobby calves?
It’s just that I noticed earlier on that people (obviously in the know) were saying this is not an isolated case and has happened on other farms.
September 30th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
Jan, we breed cows to get them back in milk and produce female replacement stock, bobby calves(male) are a by product of this process. At no time did i say it was justifyed on any basis not to feed these calves and on my farm like most others they are fed twice a day before they are sent off at the 4-5 day old stage.
I can’t help it if it is normal calf behaviour to suck each others naval and moo, and if you had read the post porperly you would see that i like most others are glad to see the ass end of Crafer from the dairy industry as it brings us all into disrepute.
September 30th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
just so every one knows you do not make money from bobby calves, you feed them well and look after them because it is the right thing to do!
September 30th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Sorry Dez, I can’t accept that Fonterra’s responsibilty is just for the food safety aspect of the milk they buy. A manufacturer these days is responsible for everything that takes place in their supply chain.
That is the whole point of quality management.
September 30th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
@just another farmer !
Thank you for sharing these facts with the rest of kiwis,it is a horrible story and very traumatic indeed. You have shown great courage to disclose it and I for one feel proud of any one who took such a bold step. Bernard has done an excellent job to raise public awareness.
September 30th, 2009 at 7:08 pm
mike says: Just to give people an idea on bobby calve prices we averged between $2-$10 per calf this year for 4 day old claves (which is the youngest they can be before sending on truck)
In stead of kill them after 4 days ??!!! or let starve – what about veal production ? Give them the change of a short, but decent life.
http://www.maf.govt.nz/mafnet/press/211204sonzaf-beef.htm
September 30th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
bobby is veal
September 30th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
@Roger Witherspoon
Qte
I can’t accept that Fonterra’s responsibilty is just for the food safety aspect of the milk they buy. A manufacturer these days is responsible for everything that takes place in their supply chain
End qte
Add “If they’re sensible” to that last sentence.
Fonterra’s contract with the farmer is for the supply of dairy product, just in the same way that Nike’s contract with a supplier is for the supply of product “x”.
The case of Nike and other major brands shows that the buying public isn’t prepared to tolerate exploitation of helpless workers and it was Naomi Klein’s “No Logo” and the ensuing tsunami of public pressure that forced them to take social responsibility for their entire supply chain.
Fonterra appears to be too stupid to read that message and I get the impression that David Carter didn’t do too well with his ABCs either
September 30th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
John B you are quite right but it goes deeper than that.
A manufacturer is responsible for aspects of supplier quality, it is just a basic concept in quality management, I guess it was probably Deming in the fifties who identified it. This is not a new idea.
Basically if a supplier is sloppy in one area the chances are they will be sloppy in others, as a manufacturer you carry the can for any and all shortcomings on their part. Supplier quality audits are just normal aren’t they?
September 30th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
Love your work JAF and BH, Its not so easy for the feds to write this off as some anti business/ greenie conspiracy,having emanated from Interest.co.
I agree with Tussock ,the feds have suffered from poor leadership,with both past and present Presidents souring the relationship between townies and farmers,with their devisive them and us rhetoric.
Got any spare time to look into Canterburys’ dairy/water/pollution issues Bernard ?
Tenure review ?
September 30th, 2009 at 8:54 pm
Just a Farmer: To put yourself at risk for those who have no voice I thank you. One can only imagine just how how stressful this exercsie would have been for you before during and after! You have the admiration and much deserved respect of many on this site
September 30th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
Someone commented on Crafer being a “NZer”, he isnt, this man is –> “Just another Farmer”
regards
September 30th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
I am thoroughly disgusted by the incompetence and laziness of MAF and especially by this miserable vermin who dares to call himself a farmer while treating animals this way.
I think an international boycott of all meat and dairy products from NZ should go into effect until they clean up their act, fund MAF properly, insist they do their duty, and we can confirm that farming in NZ is being done in a safe and responsible fashion and any who don’t are not allowed to sell products that jeopardize the safety of others or who abuse their animals.
Edited by Bernard. I can understand your anger, but I’d like our commenters to avoid making threats, even in jest, to any of the people in this article.
September 30th, 2009 at 9:42 pm
Are not bobby calves a product for the meat industry – not the milk processing industry? I thought if you sent an animal to slaughter – which is what happens to bobby calves they were sent to a meat works, not a dairy factory. Therefore on that basis should it not be the meat industry that does the quality checks on their suppliers of bobby calves, not Fonterra?
September 30th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
High numbers (majority) of calves here in NZ are born because of milk production (dairy farming) and not meat production. As far as I know Bobby calves live for approx. 20 weeks before they are slaughtered (veal).
In stead of kill them after 4 days ??!!! or let them starve, give them the chance of a short, but decent life.
Again it is a question of Ethics and Morality.
September 30th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
Good on you Just Another Farmer. You’re a brave man. To all those who are critcial of him: just imagine the calves were dogs; the outrage, weeping and wailing of the SPCA, the local MP would be on the front page. The owners would be in court and convicted. It’s cattle so nothing happens…go figure. Sounds like its the Crafars not their workers, who I hope the rest of the dairy industry gives jobs when they are sacked by the Crafars to cover up their negligence.
September 30th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
W Kunz – your information on bobby calves is incorrect they are sent off at 4 days old so long as they meet the standard of health required. Farmers would simply not have the facilities to keep the calves for 20 weeks. They are a by product of the dairy industry but a true product for the meat industry. I am a firm believer of looking after animals humanely and have no time for the likes of factory farming. Are you saying that the meat industry has no responsibility for the quality control of the source of their product?
September 30th, 2009 at 10:54 pm
W Kunz, where is your farm, if you pay us bobby calf prices we will happily start sending all our 4 day old calves to you. You will be able to take them through to 20 weeks and then send them to the works, giving them a decent life.
I am sure that your farming operations will be highly successful.
September 30th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
C o
Here a link to avoid confusion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veal
Of course the meat industry has responsibility for quality control.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:12 pm
Another link about Bobby calves:
http://www.biosecurity.govt.nz/animal-welfare/codes/bobby-calves/index.htm
September 30th, 2009 at 11:21 pm
I just love this poll on the website.
MAF need to prosecute and fine them so they have to sell.
Me thinks that if there was a buyer out there the operation would be sold, given that there banks have been trying to sell them up for the last 9 months.
Westpac, Rabobank and PGG Wrightson Finance need to call in receivers to protect their security
What security is that those farms worth $175m against there debt of $200m. Who is going to buy these again??
Fonterra needs to threaten to stop collecting milk from Crafar Farms and appoint its own supervisors to run the farms.
So now a farmer co-operative should stop collecting milk, and put in managers. Do you think they could legally put in there own managers.
Come on Bernard, lift your game a little, this poll is just sensationalist rubbish as you try to squeeze a little bit more blood out of the stone from this story.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
Good link , Walter . How anyone cannot see the legality of the Animal Welfare Act , or your biosecurity link , is beyond me . They are in simple English . And are commonsense . Provide adequate food , water , and shelter for all domesticated animals . How do bobby calves fall out of that protection ? It is the law . Animals ( and this includes Labour Party shadow ministers ) do have rights . Even invertebrates and octopusses are included ! ( someone still cares for real estate agents ) . Allan Crafar , you need to understand these basic things , before you can declare your prowess as a farmer , and good custodian of your stock .
September 30th, 2009 at 11:36 pm
This whole sorry affair has the illusion of being all about animal cruelty. In reality, it has to do with greed. GREED -> DEBT -> DEPRESSION (in this order). It is more common than we like to believe.
Television is satuated with shows which glorify greed and competition. Any wonder that so many “stab themselves all over with many pains” in striving for this elusive god?
This farmer has suffered the humiliation of admitting that he is clinically depressed. I get the impression that many here might applaud his ultimate demise. Well, that is cruelty indeed.
Man is worth more than a calf. The culprit here is greed, not Allan Crafar.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:53 pm
The culprit here is stupidity in lending practices – obviously this business was too highly leveraged – sunk all its borrowings into expansion/growth, as opposed to productivity improvements – and the chooks have come home to roost.
I feel sorry for those farm workers – if ever there seems to have been an incompetent employer, it is this one – supported by his incompetent lenders. I would imagine many of these employees would have justified cases for summary dismissal (or whatever the legal term is for employment conditions that are so poor as to make it unsafe for a worker to continue with their employment).
Surely bankrupcy is the best option – then the Official Assignee can put in proper management to wind up/sell down the assets. The Government created the mess with its incompetent monetary policy and lack of competent MAF compliance – let it be responsible for a tidy, humane and socially just outcome for the animals and the workers.
Let’s see if Wellington can run the nation’s single largest dairy producer.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:57 pm
Chris you wrote:
Man is worth more than a calf.
That is the real cause, why greed and megalomania occurs and can do so much damage to animal farming.
The greatness of a nation and its moral process can be judged how its animals are treated. M Ghandi
October 1st, 2009 at 12:01 am
Hi Kate…
Could it be that GREED also drives “incompetent lending”?
Lenders simply “maximise returns for shareholders”, yes?
October 1st, 2009 at 12:27 am
I am in disbelief that Bernard Hickey believes he is morally right to denigrate and condemn a private individual (Mr Crafar) and his business.
Reading some of these comments you would think that Bernard had exposed the devil incarnate!
Surely no sane person can possibly take the view that some operational mismanagement equates to being pure evil (which has been implied here in the majority of responses).
It is a downright disgrace how Bernard Hickey has approached this matter and if anyone at all believes that his actions are laudable then our society is no better than that of a lynch mob.
There are appropriate ways to deal with matters. Harassment, intimidation (of related parties and authorities) and outright contempt for due process, justice and fairness are not qualities anyone should find admirable. Bernard Hickey has displayed all of this and more.
How is what he has done any different from activists who break into lawful pig or chicken farms then embark on a smear campaign against them.
The real question has to be why Bernard Hickey has embarked on his smear campaign. Many comments made refer to debt being the issue, others refer to animal rights being the motivation, others refer to mismanagement being the reason – but how is the operation of a PRIVATE farm business, or its association with a PRIVATE milk supply business, AT ALL relevant to a financial reporter???
This stinks of a personal vendetta against someone he has previously described as a curmudgeon. Perhaps Bernard’s own business inadequacies have led him to so despise someone who has managed to raise $200million in debt?
It is irrelevant whether Crafarms are the absolute scoundrels that Bernard says they are. If they are matters could have been dealt with in a proper professional way. If they aren’t I hope Mr Crafar sues the hell out of Interest.co.nz and Bernard Hickey – that might keep Bernard happy – he could go renting again like he recommends everyone else to do!!
I want to make it clear that I’m not condoning any animal neglect but you’ve got to be horrified by bullies using the internet to call the downfall of a private individual (lets be clear Mr Crafar is not an elected official with responsibilities to the public or even a public figure). He should be dealt with through the appropriate legal avenues not this witch-hunt.
Mr Bernard Hickey on the otherhand is a public figure who seeks out public discussion AND HE IS A BULLY. Therefore I have no qualms vehemently deriding his actions.
Hickey has managed to degrade this into a talk-back style slugfest which has no relevance to any sensible economic discussion.
Will Hickey gloat like an insolent schoolboy if Crafarms fails?
Almost certainly.
Why? Because Hickey takes some perverse pleasure in the downfall of others. I wonder why?
October 1st, 2009 at 12:32 am
I don’t buy the greed argument as an excuse – people need to take some personal responsibility.
Far to many people want to make extra money with little effort and do not consider (or even care about) the risk, and then when it turns to custard they are the first to blame someone else. (This is not just limited to farming.)
On the other hand, there are plenty of good farmers that keep their borrowing under control and achieve what they want to achieve by working hard.
October 1st, 2009 at 1:01 am
Hi Sam…
I agree. Greed is no excuse for mistreating animals. Neither is debt. Neither is depression. And this gentleman didn’t deliberately mistreat his stock because he was greedy. Neither because he was in debt. Neither because he was clinically depressed.
But he, like many of us, bought into the “deceptive power of riches”.
I did!
This tree never bears fine fruit. In this case it appears to have led to depression, eventual loss of control of his business and, sadly, starved animals.
In terms of “taking personal responsibility”, well the moment for this comes when we find ourselves knocking on the bank manager’s door (or before), seeking funds for something we want rather than need.
For many of us, accepting we have a problem with GREED is like certain smokers accepting they have a problem with a drug. We may deflect this realisation as though our entire being depends on it.
October 1st, 2009 at 4:18 am
W K – given the links you provided, it is clear that we are talking about different things. The wikipedia link is irrelevant as I was speaking of the reality of what happens to bobby calves in the NZ dairy industry and that is that they are usually sent off farm at 4 days old. Some calves are kept as replacements by farmers and some are sold to calf rearers.
It appears that we both agree it is the meat industry that is responsible for the quality control and therefore calls for Fonterra to become involved in what is a bobby calf issue are wrong. If any industry needs to be called to account it is the bobby calf processers that need to be called to account. After all they take and process the calves. If they want to use 100% Pure in their marketing, then they are the ones who should be checking that they can justifiably use it, and not rely on another industry to do the checks for them.
What makes everyone so sure that ‘Just a Farmer’ is a male? Do you all not realise that there are also women farmers – and quite capable ones at that? The voice on the video is probably disguised so it could be either sex.
Some in the dairy industry have been expecting animal welfare groups to target bobby calves after the Mike King programme so are probably not surprised that this video has surfaced.
The treatment of these animals is inexcusable however one does have to ask did the video appear before or after Bernard started looking in to this subject 6 weeks ago. Bernard has said that while he and many others worked on this for 6 weeks he didn’t want to go public until he had the proof. As all of this may be 6weeks old and no longer representative of what is happening now on the farm, Bernard or ‘Just a Farmer’ can you give us an update of what the situation is on the farm now? Have things improved?
Farmer Bob – who indeed would want to buy these farms. Perhaps putting them back in to trees (carbon credits anyone?) or sheep is what will occur. Then again as ‘Just a Farmer’ is a neighbour they may be happy to expand their estate and buy it at a knock down price. I am sure the banks will be happy to lend them the money.
October 1st, 2009 at 5:28 am
If Fonterra farmers want a valueable brand then they have to do more than just put pretty pictures on the milk cartons
The reality of farming is always going to be different to the image but i sure dont want to see this kind of horror story in the news while i am having my breakfast cereal.
What next? I imagine we are not so far away from people who create milk from paint or something and who am i to know the difference?
The Fonterra brand should be valueable for a reason rather than worthless for a reason
October 1st, 2009 at 5:38 am
None of this surprises me. Living & working in “dairy country”, I encounter mistreated and neglected animals frequently and nothing appears to get done about it. Cows are no longer animals to many farmers, merely dairy production units and items on their balance sheet.
October 1st, 2009 at 7:02 am
@Chris_j: It was a systematic and repeated failure over years over most aspects of their business…in the recent court case they were un-repentant for their actions…..
“Because Hickey takes some perverse pleasure in the downfall of others. I wonder why?”
I see no sign on this site of repeated behaviour on Bernard’s part…ie picking on lots of different ppl or a segment of the population based on social/political/race.
In terms of “lynch mob” a lynch mob takes actions into its own hands….what I see here is a moral indignation from most members of the society Crafar lives in and an expectation that the law will be followed….”An american farmer” wanted to shoot him, that is the wrong action….or (oh how I am surprised) ban NZ produce. So good farmers get blamed and penalised….but then that is America….
In terms of “PRIVATE” private is something that goes on between two adults above the age of 18….ie its private in terms of doing their own thing within NZ law…break the law and then its a PUBLIC issue as a public law was broken.
So at some stage ppl just got so disgusted at this repeated mis-behaviour that they feel they have to make clear it is not acceptable….if this was a one off by one person/body I could accept it….but this is a failure of many aspects of the situation, ie from the farmer, to MAF, to the banks, to Fonterra….the public is making it clear to all these that they have failed to live up to expectations…
regards
October 1st, 2009 at 7:04 am
I think someone commented on why the meat industry isnt in the hot seat? From what I read when the worker/driver comes to collect the bobby calves if they are not in a good condition then they dont get collected….
regards
October 1st, 2009 at 7:21 am
Steven-
I think Chris J is related to the Crafars.
Notice he didn’t address Just Another Farmer’s comments even though JAF was the driving force behind the exposure?
He ignores any rational facts (such as those presented by yourself)……..it’s a waste of time trying to talk sense to him, he’s got a grudge against BH for some reason.
October 1st, 2009 at 8:07 am
The review announced yesterday by the Minister will have taken place over night and the results are already in. No change. No blame. More advertising. More spin. Indeed, I expect the policy to be, to attack the website, BH and colleagues and all those who in any way can be accused of causing the problem by reporting the problem. Ready yourself for an advertising blitz that will make you throw up.
October 1st, 2009 at 9:00 am
An issue raised within this mess that needs to see the light of day. Why do so many, seem to know so little, about so much that goes on, down on the farm?
October 1st, 2009 at 9:14 am
The response from Fonterra shows that they are more of a political organisation that a commercial one. The comments of Henry were spin aimed at passing the blame, much is exactly what it tried to do with San Lu. This may be an effective tactic for politicians. However, from a commercial perspective, consumers do not care whose “legal responsibility” it was. If Fonterra is marketing its products as “clean, green and ethical” then it needs to be 100% sure that reality supports its claims.
Lets be very clear, Crafarms has a history of prosecutions regarding enviromental and animal welfare abuses. These are publically knowen and Fonterra has been well aware of the issues for a long time. Yet, it continued to turn a blind eye and to collect the milk, while all the time promoting itself as a 100% clean, green milk producer.
October 1st, 2009 at 9:27 am
From the Sidelines. This is a govt problem that the Minister needs to sort and bloody fast. It is a problem caused by shoddy govt in the first place. Leaving Fonterra to mismanage itself, was a govt decision. Underfunding MAF has been a govt decision. Allowing matters to fester so long has been a govt decision. Encouraging the entire agricultural sector to become dependent on chasing capital gains in bubble markets, has been a govt decision. The Minister has behaved exactly as expected…the review will be a sham…..there will be no change…..the advertising will be seen as sufficient….the effluent will be spread far and wide….
October 1st, 2009 at 9:35 am
The mechanisms are either already in place or proposed – refer DAIRYNZ projects carried out in the 2008/9 year: Best On-Farm Practice for Animal Welfare AW803
“To provide best practice guidelines on dairy cattle welfare to dairy farmers for bobby calves, winter housing and acceptable body condition for cull cows. DairyNZ Ltd
$130,000.”
I believe the key issues are education on, awareness of, and the policing of such guidelines & policies – and enforcing them. The vast majority of sensible farmers follow best practice because they understand the benefits but there is more than one bad apple in the barrel. Treatment of bobby calves is just one example – dairy shed water quality compliance and effluent disposal are others. I’ve been on many dairy farms where things are tidied up only when an inspection is coming – and once done things revert back to non-compliant operations.
There are many laws and regulations in NZ for just about everything – but how many are effectively enforced? Dairying is our key overseas income earner; where would we all be without it? Surely its in our national interest for it to be better controlled!
October 1st, 2009 at 9:36 am
Then opposition spokesman, David Carter, asked these questions in Parliament on 31 July 2008. tinyurl.com/ya7f6ts
” To the Minister of Agriculture. Is he satisfied with the level of his ministry’s animal welfare resources; if so, why? ”
” Does the Minister think it acceptable that there are only five Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry animal welfare investigators across New Zealand dealing with 50 million head of livestock, which is one officer for every 10 million animals; if so, why? ”
” Does the Minister agree with the comment of the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry investigations manager, Greg Reid, that animal welfare resources in New Zealand are “chaotic” and “running from bushfire to bushfire”; if so, what is the Minister going to do to fix that problem? ”
Minister Carter is now in the position to ensure that MAF gets the resources and will to lift its performance in its animal welfare role.
The actions of Just another Farmer, Bernard and Bryan in publicizing this case have, in my view, accelerated that improvement in MAF’s performance and consequently helped improve the welfare of many farm animals.
For that they should feel justifiably proud.
PS. Then MInister Anderton disagreed with then MAF investigations manager, Greg Reid, and described him as an ”
official who has had a bad day at the office”. Mr Reid is probably feeling vindicated now.
October 1st, 2009 at 9:48 am
Farmer Bob.
Agreed, but then many of the other polls have also had ill thought out options.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:00 am
Anyone else notice that the Ministry responded with how many inspectors that they were “resourced for”, not the number they actually had?.
I suppose the question has to be “how many current field staff have animal welfare as their primary performance metric in their job description?”.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:05 am
ChrisJ: So there is no place for ethics or morality in business? I would guess you re a “letter of the law” man: ie if you can get away with it you will. Watergate would never have come to light if journos thought like you. Grow up man; your intemperate and abusive rantings add nothing to this debate.
Hickey is a brave and committed journo; believe me it is much easier to live quietly and do the easy stories . BH would have known that this one would go off like a rocket: it has all the ingredients — poor little animals, big greedy farmers on the financial brink with whom he had a history of verbal conflict, and the national interest in the form of Fonterra. And the pay is crap for the work involved.
Yes, ChrisJ this is good exposure for BH and the website, but he deserves it because it’s a bloody good report.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:09 am
continued… “some operational mismanagement” . Rubbish; systematic neglect. As for the insistence that private businnes is no one elses: only if you’re not breaking the law.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:17 am
BH, I thought this site was about numbers. I think you’ve allowed yourself to get a bit side-tracked – better leave this sort of thing to others, otherwise you might as well have detailed coverage of the Samoa tsunami as relevant to the world economy.
This issue’s coverage combined with some very generalised statements you have been making sound like facts, makes me feel a bit disenchanted with interest.co.nz.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:36 am
Anyone want to guess at the quality of the MAF’s report?
I can see things like:
• MAF not inspecting all farms, why? – because they didn’t have complete details for the farms the Crafar’s are associated with – or some excuse like that…
• MAF not inspecting the entire farm, why? – because the manager will show them where to look, rather than MAF making the effort to inspect the whole farm.
I want MAF to:
• Certify (by the way of a map) all areas covered.
I also want MAF to include in the report:
• Recent stock movements on and off the farms.
• A complete stock inventory – what was on the farm 12 months ago, what was bought and sold.
• A report of the deaths for the last 12 months. Each farm will have a place where dead animals are disposed of or they will be picked up)
• List of vet callouts for the last 12 months.
(I understand animals do die – e.g. grass staggers / bloat etc. it’s the ones that die through neglect I’m concerned about – with grass staggers / bloat timely medical attention is required)
Why am I so concerned with this report:
• MAF have a poor track record with this issue. If the report is bad, it will highlight the previous poor job MAF have done. MAF are not independent in this issue, it is in their best interest to make the report look good.
• MAF have inadequate staff and a short time to inspect, I don’t believe they can do a satisfactory job.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:37 am
TTT, off you go. Take your disenchantment with you. Go join CJ.
October 1st, 2009 at 11:24 am
ruru, Bernard’s a good bloke because he can kick someone whom he’s had a verbal tiff with from behind a computer screen??
Well he should be prepared for his computer to kick back!
Ray, I don’t know the Crafars at all, but I do know that a lot of hard working people get picked on by lazy do-gooders who make judgments before having all the facts.
I’ve said this before, I don’t know if what the Crafars have done is an isolated incident or a deliberate act but what I do know is that Bernard Hickey is certainly not the person to act as judge, jury and executioner.
I don’t have a grudge against BH, except that I know most of his own opinions that he has expressed on this website have proven to be untrue.
Whether it’s predictions of real estate collapses, scandalously bad mathematics trying to prove bank margins were down significantly, presenting every piece of data in a way that highlights only the downside, dismissing everyone than offers a contrary opinion to his own and attempting to ridicule anyone trying to get our country or the world moving forward in a positive direction.
Mr Hickey is Mr Negative. And he’s milking this article for more than it’s worth, well after the mainstream media have seen his evidence and already well and truly moved on.
In a country where male chicks get macerated. Hens live in tiny cages, pigs in crates and many children are systemically abused by delinquent parents. What reason does BH have to lunge so heavily at one incident which on the scale of things is not earth shattering?
He has only one reason, that is he does not like Mr Crafar.
Can’t we expect journalists to be above this level of thinking?
Clearly many of the regular comment makers on this website are just as disgusted as me. A majority of the pro-Hickey camp are not BH’s regular readers. BH is disenfranchising his regular audience in order to get a temporary ratings blip – which will soon pass – along with his credibility.
I have several million dollars of business with the ASB, and at my next meeting with them I will be making it clear that I think that their association with Interest.co.nz is not appropriate with the positive image the bank tries to portray.
I would withdraw all of my business with them if I didn’t have some extremely low fixed rates but I certainly won’t be increasing my business with them while they are sponsoring Mr Hickey.
October 1st, 2009 at 11:49 am
ChrisJ: It is clear to me that the Crafarms report is the tip of the iceberg of NZ’s farming horror stories. It’s not possible to do them all, and nor should one pperson even try. What BH’s will do I hope is to get other media investigating other angles to this story: if you’ve got a good side to this give it to someone like Campbell because he’d love a quality contradiction or advance. And it could possibly get them looking at the macerated chicks etc, perhaps even looking into history books at the BSE and salmonella in eggs scandals in Britain in the 1980s and 90s and relating them to our own filthy farming practices that the greedy (and mostly corporate farmers) seem to be introducing to NZ. I’m not saying all farmers are doing this stuff; I’m saying that a few greedy, and often large, entities are.
Credible journalism doesn’t necessarily make you friends, but it does add to democracy and a better society for open debate. Chris, just ask yourself what you’d say to BH if he had a story that reflected badly on ASB and held back, leading to a large financial loss for you because the facts weren’t out in the open? You’d be calling for him to be hung, drawn, and quartered, at least. So just because you don’t agree with him is no reason to shut him down. Find the facts, not opinions, and make your case.
October 1st, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Chris_J, I notice you say isolated issue – have a read of the following:
http://www.maf.govt.nz/mafnet/press/120906welfare.htm
Now you are going so say it was the farm manager etc, however you should keep in mind the Crafars bought farms with intention for their company to make profits. However businesses cannot blindly accept profits and shed responsibility. Company directors legal obligation to ensure their corporations do not act recklessly.
Having this issue brought to attention is a good thing, removing the rubbish it will improve the overall quality of the industry. I would expect other substandard farmers to be also investigated thoroughly. If you are aware of similar issues on farms then put forward the names and details to MAF. If you don’t, then one would have to assume you think this is the worst you have seen. This issue combined with the previous history is the worst I’ve seen, and therefore I believe the interest is justified.
Chris_J , if you were representative of the dairy industry, comments like yours would encourage me to invest outside of farming.
October 1st, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Bernard – as a regular reader I am not disenfranchised.
October 1st, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Chris–J said:
”Clearly many of the regular comment makers on this website are just as disgusted as me. A majority of the pro-Hickey camp are not BH’s regular readers.”
Really? There is a pattern to who seems to be attacking BH the messenger rather than the message but to classify them as ‘many’ is frankly laughable.
Ultimately if you don’t like what Bernard published here you can always excercise your right to go and find another site. I for one would not miss your absence.
October 1st, 2009 at 12:31 pm
And so say all of us.
October 1st, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Me too. I’m a regular reader and not so regular commenter. and an ASB customer.
October 1st, 2009 at 12:48 pm
MARGO SAYS
CHRIS J Obvious to all on this site that you have a personal vendetta against Bernard Hickey. I for one am so tired of reading your continued personal attacks on him which are so boringly repitious. Why don’t you do all of us a favour and give it a break. Becoming increasingly concerned about your blood pressure levels……………….
October 1st, 2009 at 12:50 pm
@ Chris_J 1.10. 12:27am
I don’t know if you recognise the entire picture. New Zealand is a civilised country where the public has quality and humanitarian standards etc., undersigned and confirmed by laws and regulations. People/ companies, which do not comply with must be punished.
We spend our business time with many tourists from all over the world. Many of them are from countries, where we export our agriculture products. Many of the tourists are starting to ask critical questions. Why are the rivers/ lakes/ sea polluted ? Where are the shelters for animals ? Many don’t ask questions anymore but comment – extensive farming isn’t sustainable. The NZ- slogans of “Green and Clean” and “100% Pure” is a lie, etc, etc.
The fact is when our agriculture industry is of the beginning of having a bad reputation sooner or later customers will react and export numbers go down. Tourism another strong “NZ earner” will suffer too.
Any setbacks in these two industries could be devastating for our country.
So, there is a close correlation between a successful NZ economy and good standard agriculture in our case animal farming practice. Of course this should be of interest of any economist/ person or company, who cares about the country and it’s ecomomy.
The greatness of a nation and its moral process can be judged how its animals are treated. M Ghandi
October 1st, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Wally Says:
“From the Sidelines. This is a govt problem that the Minister needs to sort and bloody fast. It is a problem caused by shoddy govt in the first place. ”
We can made all the Laws we want…about anything…but it is a total waste of time if they cant be enforced or dont have the structure to do so
And by the way how many posters know under what act this falls, let alone read the Animal welfare Act, or even know where, who, what it covers?
Espec those critical of BH and defending the Cafars totally unprofessional operation in all respects.
I wonder if the Cafars had ever read it? or how many farmers, small zoos per shops are even aware of its existence?
And yes I know the Act, and been very well aware how it relates to us personally, for near a decade now in our breeding of endangered NZ Birds.
October 1st, 2009 at 1:15 pm
Bernard, Bryan – good work, I believe you’ve done NZ a favour and I know firms who use origin branding levered from the integrity of the NZ Inc. brand will appreciate what you’ve done. It’s a shame it HAD, to go this way, but I for one believe you have done the right thing. To ignore it, pussy foot around, as others have, would have been the wrong thing. Let’s hope more right things are done to resolve the problems for all concerned including the family, the staff, the stock, the bobbys and the environment.
There are a good few points I could make arguement capital from to support changes in economic policies that NZMEA would like to see benefitting all of NZ, but I’ll leave that for another thread and another day.
October 1st, 2009 at 1:20 pm
The worst thing that could become of Crafars is trial by peer’s. A lot of smaller dairy farmers are getting really p*ssed at the actions of these large indebted farms and its all over the country.
October 1st, 2009 at 1:31 pm
And good for you Les Rudd for lending your support.
Its good to see more influential folk in the NZ economic sphere making their views known. It also serves to shoot down the fatuous view promulgated by the defenders of the indefensible that in some way this was not a story worthy of an economics website.
October 1st, 2009 at 2:08 pm
andy hamilton – “It also serves to shoot down the fatuous view promulgated by the defenders of the indefensible that in some way this was not a story worthy of an economics website.”
Agreed, the defending arguements weren’t so complex were they.
Cheers, Les.
October 1st, 2009 at 3:39 pm
To all
Fed Farmers’ Dairy Section head Lachlan McKenzie pays tribute to ‘Just Another Farmer’ over at NZHerald.
“Good farmers, thankfully the overwhelming majority of us, do not take animals for granted. It doesn’t matter if an animal is alive for a few days or for longer, we farmers have an absolute duty of care to ensure they are treated humanely and ethically.
“That’s why I wish to pay tribute to the unnamed person, a fellow farmer I am led to believe, who took the video footage and reported the incident to the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry (MAF).
“Farming is no closed shop. There is no code of silence. Farmers do not turn a blind eye to maltreatment but report it. Our honour as farmers depends upon it.”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10600680&pnum=0
cheers
Bernard
October 1st, 2009 at 3:50 pm
I don’t understand how the economic right wingers amongst you feel that persecuting an individual under the guise of freedom of speech is not just laudable but even admirable.
This is normally the domain of namby pamby lefties.
I think that most of you don’t respect freedom, justice or integrity at all. Maybe you’re really just a bunch of whingers who will moan about everything without any ideological beliefs.
Bernard crossed a line beating up a frenzy over this issue.
He could have aired the issue, lodged complaints and asked the questions; instead he started an incendiary, inflammatory debate disparaging the individuals involved. This was aimed only at lifting his profile. Which has failed, outside of this website BH has barely got a mention in regards this issue. TV1 ignored him completely.
Bernard’s dug his own grave with this story – how long will his sponsor’s wear him acting like a zealot.
October 1st, 2009 at 3:56 pm
Yes as you say Chris TV1 ignored the story completely.
In fact so completely that it was the main piece on the flagship 7pm CloseUp program on the day concerned on TV1.
http://tvnz.co.nz/close-up/appalling-animal-neglect-farm-3024427
Give it up man, you are just making yourself look foolish now.
October 1st, 2009 at 3:57 pm
Actually, Sainsbury on Close Up referred viewers to this website and credited BH with breaking the story. So ChrisJ, you are wrong again.
Having morals does not make someone an economic right winger and freedom, justice and integrity are what this story is about.
Freedom to print facts and evidence in a case of blatant wrongdoing and lawbreaking.
Justice for all those other farmers who do not want to be associated with poor farming practice.
Integrity, having the guts to publish a story such as this.
October 1st, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Good job , Bernard , for a zealot ! Nice to see you and Bryan , in a frenzy , airing this issue , and showing up the incompetence of some at Crafarm , MAF , and such . Continue beating up frenzies , as Chris_J puts it , but tell Bryan to ” duck ” next time ! ( your sponsers will be proud of you both )
October 1st, 2009 at 4:01 pm
In the first three notations of the post at 3.50pm the writer sums themself up perfectly.
October 1st, 2009 at 4:03 pm
So Chris_J, you have “several million dollars worth of business [read: debt] with the ASB” and you think they’ll be shaking in their boots if you decide to walk away as a borrower?
THAT’S laughable.
October 1st, 2009 at 4:25 pm
And as dissapointing, Kate, is that whilst I may have disagreed with Chris-j re property direction, I respected his rationale, and the effort he had gone to to reach a conclusion. My recall is that Bernard accorded him the same courtesy. The recent posts from him are dissapointing in their tone, and frankly, rather embarressing.
October 1st, 2009 at 4:27 pm
CHRIS-J….
Condemned with your own words..
Even more ironic….It seems totally ironic that you cannot even see the PROBLEM besetting NZ and the CRAFARS……and the BANKS……….you all.
Like-minded to the death…in this case poor calves included … etc.
Remember it is Not what you owe in this life….it is what youv’e got.
When I and others take our funds totally away from ASB shortly….you may realise what an ASSET is and then maybe you will feel something for more than just a BUCK.
Have a good look in the Mirror. Then stick your head between your legs and kiss yer ass goodbye.
I will place this in spite of the VITRIOL it may engender. But it is worth it.
October 1st, 2009 at 4:34 pm
Chris_J, ever thought of moving your several million dollars worth of business to Shakespeare Finance Limited?
http://www.companies.govt.nz/pls/web/DBSVWCO.View_Company?an=36E9B6A67E2F57E6D38A66F60563BA29&ut=C&invf=OJ&cn=1207033
October 1st, 2009 at 4:37 pm
Hang on, Sam…. Shakespeare Finance appears to have gone belly up! The links shot…
October 1st, 2009 at 4:38 pm
i to would not get to up set about a few caves if i had buyers (4)for the group. Well over 295 million.!!
October 1st, 2009 at 4:41 pm
What’s spelaeology got to do with it, Bank?
October 1st, 2009 at 4:52 pm
Yeah, not sure how to link from the companies website
(anyone know how?)
Otherwise, go to:
http://www.companies.govt.nz/cms/online-services/search-the-register/banner_template/AGENT
and type in Shakespeare Finance Limited
October 1st, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Are there caves on the Crafar’s farms ? Cool . Good place to hide the bodies of snooping journos and bobby calves .
October 1st, 2009 at 5:08 pm
Just one Snooping Journo. You has know idea of what the hell he is doing
October 1st, 2009 at 5:20 pm
Gotta be a wind up, Roger.
October 1st, 2009 at 5:35 pm
The real story is that the biggest share holder of Fonterra will soon be a overseas company.The next thing that they are doing is to build there own plant (seen the plans looks good )for there 32,000 cows (Not 22,00) Fonterra will have to buy back the Shares.around 32million .This should cover some cost of the new plant.
October 1st, 2009 at 5:54 pm
Bank – Anyone paying that sort of money for this operation has rocks in their head and green grass growing between their ears – by the way that equates out to $46/kgms seems like someones way out of touch with the current farm market. If its so easy to get through the OIA and then build a profitable dairy factory then we should all set one up in the back paddock. If you think the OIA will allow Fonterra to be placed under any further financial strain in this current environment then youve got rocks for brains.
October 1st, 2009 at 5:58 pm
If the new capital restructing propsal is accepted by farmers (which it will be) then if that happens Fonterra would not have to buy back shares from the new owners. Thats as far as i understand it anyway, they will be traded amongst and between dairy farmers with current supply shares.
October 1st, 2009 at 6:30 pm
mike thats a new share that will be traded between farmers
October 1st, 2009 at 7:29 pm
U certain, i thought that was the whole point of the capital restructure to stop money washing in and out of Fonterra ,keeping everything in house and allowing farmers to trade up to 120% of their suppy.
October 1st, 2009 at 9:19 pm
Bank,
I am sorry but your figures don’t add up.
32,000 cows doing 221 kg MS per cow, giving total production of 7m kg MS (based on your $32m of shares at current share price of $4.52)
Sale price would be $41/kgMS (based on $295m). Current farm prices in Central Plateau at around $30-$32/ kgMS for alright farms, you need to remember there farms have pretty poor improvements so could be under .
And unless I am mistaken they sold there cows to a stock leasing firm 1-2 yrs ago to raise capital, so they don’t own those cows, they lease them.
Also you are wrong about the shares, there will only be one type of share, minimum shareholding based on supply and ability to own up to 120% of production, at stage 3 these will be traded direct with other Farmers, reducing the redemption risk of Fonterra.
October 1st, 2009 at 9:43 pm
Farmer Bob – “unless I am mistaken they sold there cows to a stock leasing firm 1-2 yrs ago to raise capital, so they don’t own those cows, they lease them.”
Given thats correct… If ever there was a margin trade on dairying growth being exponential, this is it!… They not only do they not own the land… they also don’t own the stock.
As Iain Parker might put put it… these guy’s are the Ultimate Tribute Slaves.
Wild Guess… They sold them to, and leased them back from Wrighties… and that’s what the 25 Mil is ?
October 1st, 2009 at 9:51 pm
StockCo.
From what I understand PGG gave them the money for some of their last purchases. WPT and Rabo told them to bugger off and good ol PGG gave them some more money.
October 1st, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Farmer Bob / Bernard – Do you think PGW’s exposure is material enough for a disclosure to NZX to be required?
October 1st, 2009 at 10:11 pm
No idea on that Mouse, they obviously think there security is solid enough.
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:28 am
For god’s sake–if you are going to keep animals and use them for your benefit, TAKE CARE OF THEM!!! Shame on these horrible people. May they feel the same pain and suffering that the animals in their care felt.
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:29 am
Bank, what’s the next thing they’re going to do after installing their own plant?
Hire someone to develop a brand for them? I reckon they might have their work cut out for them.
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:50 am
Mouse
Great point.
I’ll make a few calls…
cheers
Bernard
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:15 am
Bank, where did you get the 32000 cow number that crafarms are meant to milk, from every thing i’ve read it’s around that 22000 mark?
And i wonder how much of the milk they supplied was contracted, if they were selling off cows you can bet they would of been down scaling they shareholding as well and suppling under contact.
October 2nd, 2009 at 7:39 pm
Bernard : Please keep us updated on this item . Many feel deeply about how badly this particular group of calves were treated . And as you know , the story goes deeper than that , CRAFARM ; as a gigantic factory dairy organisation , are the ugly face of farming in NZ today . I grew up on a small 207 acre farm at Cust , near Rangiora , and we could not imagine the practices of the Crafar enterprise . We looked after stock , simply becos’ they are living , breathing animals , just like us . Not becos’ there was or wasn’t a dollar at the end of the equation , Allan Crafar has right to shed some tears , as on the path to riches and power . he lost his heart and soul .
October 3rd, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Roger, MAF are furthering the investigation. Unfortunately contrary to what the farm supervisor told the visiting maf inspector and vet on the 7th of September, they are back rearing calves.
Personally I have decided to give a strong response to enquiring minds over this debacle.
This is every dairy farmers problem. It is mostly a dairying problem. NZ Dairy Farmers need to face this and face it now. Right now there is talk and movement on putting thousands of dairy cows in the Mckenzie Country. How will the welfare of these animals be secure in the extremes of the environment there. Will they be housed? Every good dairy farmer should be scared. As the winter tourists trawl the inland road to Queenstown, what horror will they be in for. And what horror will they get on tape to take back home for their news stations in Germany, Japan, Australia….
Lets have the discussion ourselves, here in NZ, what is appropriate and what is not.
The things I have seen.
Tiny perfectly formed induced little bodies lying dead and dying in heaps around cowsheds.
Every morning lines of labouring cows waiting to be helped with calving. If these cows had been seen to at an earlier time, much pain and suffering and more successful outcomes would have been achieved.
Outside bobby calf sheds calves that havent quite died yet left to dehydrate and die in the sun. Or wind. Or rain.
Calves crook with Navel ill, something easily fixed with an antibiotic, not treated and left to die. Stretched out and suffering on the shed floor. Often being stood on by others because the pens are too full.
Induced cows foetuses dying inside them and becoming mummified. Induced cows dying just because inducing is rough on their metabolic systems.
Horns turning inwards and growing back into the skull, clearly obvious to the farmer, but left, just left.
Cows. Broken Tail after broken tail after broken tail.
200 lame cows in a herd of 700.
Rubber rings put on adult cows tails.
Diseased cows not seen by a vet in a timely manner.
Every good farmer knows a story, every vet, every AB tech, every bobby truck driver, every farm serviceman.
Many people in the community know it, discuss it, shake their heads about it. But I reckon its time we made the dairy farmers own it. Its their industry. Its their leaders they have to shake up. I make a good bit of income from the dairy industry, I want it to succeed, but I am having an increasingly hard time living with this.
Once again a strange forum to put this on, would the rural press print this stuff. Sadly I doubt it. But I reckon I am going to give them a go.
To the dairy farmers out there, so many of you do a great job, a bloody hard job, dont continue to let these ‘others’ ruin what you have. Your reputation is at stake. Take a stand. I am. And I could lose my income tomorrow because I am. It has already cost me a couple of thousand. It was worth it.
My 21 year old son stood at the gate of the bobby calf pen and with pain and anger in his voice he said mum they just need a feed mum, they just need feeding, why wont they feed them… We can feed them.
With that I finally woke up.
October 3rd, 2009 at 6:42 pm
As i said MAF will not take action.you guys are so far away from the real story,which will never see the TV.
its very funny reading what you guys think is going on.
October 3rd, 2009 at 7:02 pm
and the real story is ?
October 4th, 2009 at 10:56 am
Lachlan Mckenzie in The Herald http://www.nzherald.co.nz/agriculture/news/article.cfm?c_id=16&objectid=10600680
gives with one hand and takes with the other.
I am sorry Lachlan, a 1000 cow farm does constitute industrial farming. And many of our farms are larger. When these farms are serviced by only 4 or 5 staff members what do you think happens when 50 cows calve a day? You cant pull the wool forever. At some point it gets too big and too ugly. We have been at that point for a few years now.
Staff are not coping. Get real and face the problem. Stop the spin. Its a mess, get out there and help fix it. The only way to do that is first acknowledge the problem.
October 4th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Imagine getting up at 3.30 in the morning and the weather is shite. You put all your wet weather gear on and go out on the motorbike and get the main herd in. 500 cows. Someone starts the shed up, and slowly the cows drift in. Its now 4.45. After the main herd, the colostrums come in, 80 of them, after that the 20 antibiotics. Its now 8.00.
With another staff member you race off to the springer paddock. One cow is down, 30 have calved, 6 are looking to be still calving and may need help. With one other person you have to extricate 30 cows and calves, 6 calving cows, and deal to the cow that is down.
Its 10.00 and there are 4 calves to pull from 6 cows. All these calves end up dead, eventually so are 2 of the cows. Back in the colostrum mob another cow has gone down. Its 11.30 most of the cows are sorted, but the calves havent been fed.
The new calves that were brought in are put in the appropriate pens. One in four havent had a feed from their mothers. Their tummies are empty of colostrum, but that is the least of your problems. Someone now has to teach yesterdays calves to feed.
Another staff member is there in the pens, but it is back breaking work dragging calves to teats and they have only got through 35 of yesterdays 50 calves. Someone has to stand up the sitting and get them to take a teat.
Its 1pm, you havent stopped, was there breakfast and lunch? Who remembers. Have the electric fences been moved for the mob of 250 that are late calvers. Has someone taken them silage and pk. Has someone checked the springers again, and moved their break and fed them silage? Have those downer cows been attended. Were the older calves fed. Oh and its time to walk the main herd back in for afternoon milking. Then the colostrums, then the antibiotics. Has someone checked the springers again, and yup there are another couple to help calve.
Its now 6.30 pm. And there are 100 things I have missed out. Theres the machinery that broke down. The water leak that had to be fixed. The tyre that had to be changed.
This is the pattern for every day of the week for weeks. So the nightly check of the springing mob goes undone, the sick calf goes untended, the cow out the back with her hip out, gets forgotten.
The shear magnitude of calving herds of 1000 or more become more than can be dealt with on lightly staffed farms. And to be clear, debt is such, staff numbers are the first thing to be reduced on debt heavy farms.
To the uninitiated, cows have lots of problems at calving time. Long legs get caught in their journey to the great outdoors, bottoms arrive first, heads can be too big. Sometimes the wet weather and mud get too much for the cows. Metabolic problems iintrude. Mastitis, sore teats, sore feet. These things take time to deal with. You can spend hours with one cow, to help her properly.
Answer me three questions Lachlan. Hand on heart. Are all animals dealt with in a timely manner on NZ dairy farms? What is the calving percentage ie survivability of calf and cow in NZ dairy farms compared to NZ beef cow systems? Why is there such a difference?
October 4th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
http://www.dairynz.co.nz/file/fileid/12588
The dexcel website is the place to find the facts of the current nz and dairy standard for animal welfare. They take it seriously. Farmers are audited for cow and bobby calf welfare annually as part of the dairy company quality systems.
Many of the things mentioned by just another farmer are now illegal and are liable for prosecution and a $25000 fine (125 000 corporate) and or 6 month in jail.
For example tail removal – only the last few inches may be removed since a couple of years ago and vets at meat Works will follow up cases found, although it will be 8 years or so until NZ dairy herd has long tails.
October 8th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
There are a few important things that need to be changed on large scale dairy operations:
1) bobby calves need to be shot at birth to avoid suffering and to allow staff the time to tend to other matters as it’s too timely to teach a bobby calf to drink for 4 days then sell it for near nothing. The calf and the staff are going to be a lot happier with this situation.
2) once a day milking to manage the farm properly (10% annual reduction in MS) justifies animal welfare and majorly addresses staff stress levels. Cows will be in better condition as a result. May need to cull high SCC cows to do this properly.
3) they need to employ a person to rear the replacement calves to do the job properly, no point the milking staff trying to feed calves as well, it don’t happen as we have seen.
October 8th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
1) bobby calves need to be shot at birth to avoid suffering and to allow staff the time to tend to other matters as it’s too timely to teach a bobby calf to drink for 4 days then sell it for near nothing. The calf and the staff are going to be a lot happier with this situation.
WOW ! That’s when greed and megalomania takes over to replaces morality and respect of life – principles of human beings in a civilised world.
The greatness of a nation and its moral process can be judged how its animals are treated. M Ghandi
October 8th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
mind you if dairy farmers used less jersey bulls ,they would be able to sell the calves to the beef industry,where a good fresian or whitehead is worth good money
Of course dont want too many beefies as this puts cheap grazing at risk
October 8th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
In response to Kunz
Yeah your right, this is a real waste. Unfortunately these Bobby calves are put on a truck at 4 days of age and transported for up to 12 hours to the meatworks. All these calves unfortunately suffer more than a calf shot at birth……..yeah unfortunately Jersey crossbred dairy calves are not good for meat production.
Maybe the Industrys need to work together more with breeding programmes etc. Apparently we don’t have enough angus at times for Mcdonalds and it comes from Australia. Maybe Dairy farmers should only be doing AI for 3 weeks and then using an Angus bull so the bull and heifer calves can be kept and finished at 2 years age. I think we have far more calves than required for this though, its a pity.
October 8th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
i think this jersey cross thing came in the mid ninties from the dairy board.Cant think actual reason but it made getting good calves more difficult
still the ones who stayed with pure fresian have got an extra income source now
October 8th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
Jersey calves means an easier calving, and that is extremely important on the bigger farms.
October 9th, 2009 at 8:50 am
yeah true, I think there are low birthweight beef bulls being bred now in the industry especially for ease of calving. I know one Hereford stud ARDO in the manawatu who have actually gone ahead and organised calf rearing contracts etc for the bull and heifer calves sired by their bulls……this is a good option as the calves are small, but have good growth rates after birth.
October 12th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
Again – well done Bernhard to talk clear text tonight on TV1 what’s happening on some of the animal farming sector – greed and megalomania not only from farmers but also Fonterra and Banks.
We spend our business time with many tourists from all over the world. Many of them are from countries, where we export our agriculture products. Many of the tourists are starting to ask critical questions. Why are the rivers/ lakes/ sea polluted ? Where are the shelters for animals ? Many don’t ask questions anymore but comment – extensive farming isn’t sustainable. The NZ- slogans of “Green and Clean” and “100% Pure” is a lie, etc, etc.
The fact is when our agriculture industry is of the beginning of having a bad reputation sooner or later customers will react and export numbers go down. Tourism another strong “NZ earner” will suffer too.
Any setbacks in these two industries could be devastating for our country.
So, there is a close correlation between a successful NZ economy and good standard agriculture in our case animal farming practice. Of course this should be of interest of any economist/ person or company, who cares about the country and it’s economy.
The greatness of a nation and its moral process can be judged how its animals are treated. M Ghandi
January 4th, 2010 at 10:23 pm
Good luck with that . But why blame the Puerto Rican Gardner , ’twas the Mexican Buttler wot done it . Recall him , and the ferretts . Be off with you : Swine-Herders !