This is very disturbing on many levels,, firstly the obligation of any person on a farm is to the animals, no one has the right to maltreat any animal. The fact that there is no prosecution of the neglect is a indictment on the system, and needs further investigation. Having known some inside info on the Crafar operation, it comes as no surprise that the whole operation is in chaos, one wonders what needs to happen in the short term, the problem is not going to fix itself, and even if the farms did sell it is still 8 months away from change over. There is no quick fix to this situation, as interim farm managers are in short supply.
Thank you Bernard for your good work, I realize it must of been very distressing to be physically and verbally assaulted, but someone had to stand up, please keep us posted of any further up dates.

This is also a disgrace to the many very good farmers that exercise great animal husbandry and take care to provide the necessaries of life.

Disgusting.....Have family as farmers and the care and concern they show their livestock is heartwarming and then creeps like this openly farm , torture their livestock and tarnish my family and my countries image....And you say there are more farmers like this?

Correct me if I'm wrong, Bernard, but assault in New Zealand is assault, even if it's on private property. Tresspass is remedied under our laws by recourse to the police, not violence. Will Bryan be making that point clear?

There is something very, very seriously wrong with New Zealand, its' attitudes and values when the discharge of effluent will result in a prosecution and fine but the wantan mistreatment of animals and there needs results in no such action. What is wrong with MAF? are they really the bunch of lame, lilly livered creatures they appear?

This is freakin disgusting. It should be on the Close up show or campbell live to get some exposure of these Crafar scumbags.

Appalling is the word. These people are a disgrace to the industry.

BH's questions demand answers,and right from the top of the organizations involved.

The allegations of MAF connivance in animal welfare neglect are particularly disturbing. Unless sorted, this will be seized upon by the US and EU and be back to haunt us within hours.

Expect to see the Minister,and DG of MAF squirming on the TV news tonight. Possibly even Federated Farmers and Fonterra might have something negative to say about the Crafars. It should never have been allowed to get to this state of affairs.

This is nothing but poorly written tabloid journalism, by someone more interested in manufacturing a story than the issue itself. My respect for you and this website has been seriously destroyed. Where is the neutrality?

I agree with Mr Crafer that to publish that video would be a serious mistake, and would serve to damage this country's reputation for no sensible gain, other than what you will no doubt attempt to justify as "public good".

The way Alan has acted in the past decade, particularly the past 5 years has been cavalier, granted. However he does not deserve to be ridiculed in this way. In a lot of ways he typifies what it is to be a kiwi, honest, hard working, ambitious. He has made some business mistakes, over leveraged himself yes, but he is not a bad man as made out by this and many other recent publications.

As someone who knows more of the more private details of the situation, I am shocked that there are so many reporters out there so willing to cut down a man and his family so ruthlessly.

This article is a mistake.

As a dairy farmer myself it is very concerning to see this sort of thing on the internet. But this behaviour has been going on for to long. The industry has had its chance to clean up now it looks like its going to be done for them.

The Crafars are an embarrassment to the industry and for Allan to claim that he is an average dairy farmer offends me. Claiming the environmental and welfare standards are to high is a joke. In general regional councils have taken a cooperative and patient approach to lifting standards. As for animal welfare these so called farmers should have long been banned from owning animals.

I farm a large number of cows and know several people with several thousand cows, large farms can be well run and most are.

There is know excuse for this or any of the incidence that have happened on the Crafars farms over the years. Take some responsibility Allan an co instead of blaming everyone but yourself. The culture of any organisation set at the top, and the culture of Crafarms is one of disrespect for animals, the environment and New Zealand.

Garry said:

''In a lot of ways he typifies what it is to be a kiwi, honest, hard working, ambitious''.

I assume you are being deeply ironic, right? If not, you seem to be insulting most of the inhabitants of the rest of these islands.

First I want to say good work Bernard for bringing this story.
However storys like this are unfortunatly no news to me and I feel a bit confused about the whole thing. It was not that long ago that that Crafars and their property developer friends were the poster boys of the succes story of NZ dairying and were going to save the country and make us all wealthy. Only very few people seemed to be concerned that the ever increasing average herdsizes would be an issue.
The moment the nz dairyindustry said goodbye to the familyfarm in persuit of greater wealth for a few, we had to realise a 300 cow farm run by an owner operator or a 1500 cow farm run by staff often unmotifated and underpayd and owned by a property developer who has a few more farms like that are two completely different things.
We are now waking up to an industry that has grown to fast and have to face the consequenses.

Dry shares, anyone?

"He complained that yesterday there were only 23 hours in the day because of daylight saving, which had robbed him of one hour for work".

Hilarious if it wasn't true! He's now blaming father time.

Not a pretty picture indeed. In a shed that size you would expect the noise to be deafening with a human coming near it. Instead we heard only a few bleats, the rest of the poor animals too tired to even cry out for food.

I don't think any farmer would defend this and it isn't a true indication of how other better farmers treat their animals.

After the "murder in Matamata" I am now worried about Crafar's comment "I'd much rather shoot a human than a calf."

Thanks for that kind thought Cactus. I am now locking myself in, checking the windows and fixing a kitchen knife to a broom handle :-) Bryan Spondre"

Garry Says:
"This is nothing but poorly written tabloid journalism, by someone more interested in manufacturing a story than the issue itself. My respect for you and this website has been seriously destroyed. Where is the neutrality?"

What happens happens....tabliod press twist things around...and I dont mean Bryan's face...
"Violence is when one runs out of intelligence"

I agree with Mr Crafer that to publish that video would be a serious mistake, and would serve to damage this country's reputation for no sensible gain, other than what you will no doubt attempt to justify as "public good".

I disagree....No matter where in the world one goes, no where is perfect
If it is shown that our farmers, MAF, Police, Banks have a nil tolerance to such overall behaviour on all counts, that is good publicity if spun truthfully
What does give NZ a bad reputation is MAF and powers to be dont have a nil tolerance, and thats not the media fault...
If it is not reported, swept under the carpet as you suggest...thats a bigger crime to NZ.

"When in Doubt, just lay it out and let everything fall where it should"

Sort of like the free market should work...

Compelments to Bernard and Bryan...play it by the book...lay a complaint

Shorty
especially if you had been beating the snot out of her.

Great article. The greater farming community must take some blame and should do a little bit of soul searching for not policing itself better. In many ways NZ is like the Chinese manufacturing of agriculture--low cost. Fonterra has always been accused of dumping milk on the world markets. And what about quality? Federated farmers claimed that NZ butter was of a higher quality (more fat) than Country Life. An internet search of the packaging shows this to be false. Are farmers just naive of the products that Fonterra sells? What is the business strategy for growing the New Zealand agriculture brand. Is it cost saving 8 hour cheese manufacturing or green healthy and responsible?

So if quality isn't a marketing point and New Zealand gets a reputation for bad farming practices then we have real trouble.

I believe a vital step in the solution is to strip Fonterra of the right to the trademark "New Zealand Milk" Polluters should not be able to trade off the clean and green image that supports the tourism industry.

Lastly 200 employees on a 200 Million dollar loan probably not a great use of capital

NZ is now going find out about the power of the Internet. How long before this video is a top rating one on YouTube ?

It's on TV1 at 7pm tonight. I see Fonterra has just opened a $200,000,000 milk powder plant - don't they already have stockpiles of that stuff?

Disgusting. Crafar depressed? Not surprising given his treatment of his stock. Has he got a heart or a cash register? Certainly no conscience.

It's on Mark Sainsbury's 'Close Up', ch One, 7pm tonight.

Garry - "I agree with Mr Crafer that to publish that video would be a serious mistake, and would serve to damage this country's reputation for no sensible gain, other than what you will no doubt attempt to justify as "public good".

You must be joking. Its like people saying don't talk about war crimes or genocide because it will make other countries think badly of us. Bernard you are right. MAF, Fonterra and the NZ govt need a huge boot up their arse. 100% Pure, give me a break!

Shorty - "I'd imagine you would be upset if Crafar took a walk around your house and snapped a few photos of your Mrs in the shower through the bath room window."

Well said AndrewJ - "especially if you had been beating the snot out of her."
That whole attitude "its not our business, don't say anything" has to be changed.

Animals and the environment are paying the price for dairy's rapid expansion. Externalising environmental and animal welfare costs is just an immoral subsidy.

Anyone else who watched the TVNZ report think they were the most reptilian of crocodile tears from Mr Crafar?

@Andy - yep. You're on the money.

I had to go to the toilet and throw up. I still feel sick and have cried for these poor, poor calves. I wanted to leap out and grab those people from MAF and this so-called producer by the throat. Crafar's crocodile tears were for the bad publicity not for these poor animals. They are only $1 in their minds not living, breathing, feeling babies. I will fight for as long as I can breathe to get Crafar and all these monsters out of the industry and brought to full account. I want a full investigation of MAF's role in this and for the investigation to be expanded to cover other industries and possible incidents of such gross ill treatment. The agriculture industy in NZ has a lot of explaining to do.

I knew one of his managers when he worked in the South Island....Absolute plonker whose herd death rate was appaling. Only lasted the one season with the Farm Owner and eneded up working for Crafer as no one would employ him.Sources have told me his herd death rate is still unreal and where not talking about Calves either. From this i would say most of Crafers farm workers are the unemployable in the industry and have no scrupples or animal welfare skills what so ever. I'm glad to say that this is a very small minority from dealings i have in the dairy industry and most farmers will be appalled. I urge Fonterra to stop taking there milk and close them down...although i suppose he'll just end up supplying Talleys dairy industry which isn't much better when it comes to clean buisness ethics!!!

Deleted. if your that apalled and disgusted, why not go out there and give them a hand? oh thats because that would involve you leaving your computer. The crafars are being targeted here because they are such a large organisation. If this was just some farmer joe i highly doubt there would be this much publicity. The crafars are human not supermen, they own over 30,000 stock and do the best they can. They didnt no this was going own so come off it.

Deleted.

Rahira , this is not Kiwiblog. Your comment has been deleted for being abusive and you have been permanently banned. Bryan Spondre

Actually Rahira I don't think that ignorant bastards like you have got off your ass and looked after your stock as you are supposed to. Perhaps some of you spend too much time in front of your computer on administration and not enough time in the field on hands-on livestock management. You should go to Massey and learn the basics of how farming in New Zealand is supposed to be and why we are looked up to by the rest of the world - or used to be.

Lachlan McKenzie surely meant 'hamming it up' not 'breaking up'...didn't he?

Taxpayers watching on TV1 can presume they won't now be subsidizing Crafar under the ETS. Under Kyoto those 20k cows may cost NZ $1m per year.

The questions posed by BH earlier have yet to be fully answered by MAF. We will await answers with interest....(sorry...)

Right on Ag Student. The industry is in good hands if you are representative of the people coming up through the system ...

as a farmer i would like to see the crafer farms cut out of fontera like the festering mole they are. they ruin the rep of the few famers who care about water quality, animal welfere and the future of the industry for future generations. Allancrafer probably hasnt milked a cow for years he isnt a farmer he is just a greedy capitilist who will do any thing for money. If the corperate farmers of nz take down the industry i will be piss off because i like farming and looking after the enviroment for the future and so my boys may, one day enjoy the life farming can provide.

In hard economic times most prudent business managers/owners cut the cloth to fit the table. Not the dairy farmer, they cut throats and cream what's left.

Mouse's comments above may have some validity however the hidden and not often talked about practice of genocide of immune depressed calves, a common practice of dairy farming that's sole purpose is to initiate the production of milk from the cow a couple of weeks earlier than nature had intended. A practice that is production driven and production is profit driven.

What would the SPCA do if an ethnic minority genocide half a dozen puppies by hitting them on the head with a hammer so one could collect the milk from their mother? National shame for a start, court second, large fine (larger than $200) and possibly prison. In the name of farming this practice is acceptable.

This farmer is not on his own with the treatment of calves you have demonstrated.

When it comes to the practice of the chemically inducing of healthy calves' for a bit of extra milk to send to Fonterra, farmers seem not to hesitate using this practice.

If the public knew the full story of what happens behind the scenes on a dairy farm all hell would break loose. The devils advocate mouse was talking about.

Come clean farmer, front up, humble your selves, confess your sins, show the transparency the Fed Farmer Fep said you all live by, tell us what you really do to make the big bucks.

For what its worth, the carnage your industry is doing to us as a nation in the name of the nation is a veil of deceit that you all ought to come out from behind. Shame...shame...shame

A sad story. Judging from the many informed comments above, I sort of feel sorry for Alan Crafar. Ambitious and energetic, but unaware of his limited skills, he's gotten in far too deep. Obviously he realises this now as the imminent sale of the properties is evidence.. but it's all much too late. Now it's going to be lose-lose all the way, all the needless, disgusting animal cruelty, the stress and hostilty, and bitter loss of a lifetime's work. Even the likely sale of such large chunk of rural NZ to Chinese interests (whose reputation in this area is even worse) can be scarcely considered a brilliant outcome. It's a miserable story all round.

Worse still, if this goes viral on the net, it could do enormous and entirely avoidable harm to the whole industry.

There were many people who could have taken far more decisive action to prevent matters reaching this low point, MAF, the banks and various officers within Fonterra. This must be a big wake up call to the industry.

I don't think the motivation is to destroy Crafar farms, but rather protect the live stock that are under his care (Or lack of) I was born and raised on a farm and have been a manager for many years, and there is no excuse for poor stockmanship. You have to put measures in place, employ more staff, but it begs the question, how big do you have to get in farming, how big is the ego?
I fenced on a dairy conversion some years back, that year the manager lost 80 cows, it was disgraceful, and this was one of the shinning lights of dairy farming at the time. this needs to stop.

This thread will be vigorously moderated. Keep on the topic.

Bryan Spondre

All this vindictive talk about the Crafers... They are just the publicised farmer. DO YOU REALLY THINK THEY ARE ALONE WITH THIS CARRY ON???. Animal welfare in Dairy farming is appalling.

I actually have some sympathy for indebted dairy farmers. Crafars were probably paying over 380k a week in interest, one bad week and next you have to find 650k.
The debt in the industry mainly in the larger or new conversions must be causing an awful amount of heartache and sleepless nights.
The reality is that farming has always had low returns and land was always too expensive,but the boom of the last few years has created a culture of greed. The valuable land has to be paid off with a poor performing asset, costs have to be cut to the bone. We need to get back to the family farm and its going to be painful but I struggle to find another answer.
Fonterra's behavior and involvement in this debacle needs questioning.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Community/MessageBoard/Messages.aspx?id=3887076...

about time though its taken years later
hi there well I can vouch and say I have actually worked on the crafar's farms to name a farm is in Reporoa on Goudies rd RD1 the 108 cup as/hb the one you have to start the boiler a few3-4 hrs first before you start milking. and Manakino,there newer farms with the automatic cup removers and automatic shed a few actually in the past and I and one of My ex partner's worked for them and I went through hell working for them,I was brought up on farms too and have alot of experience of farming.but I can say this when you lean to farm you are to learn all the right way's of things in farming that's right?. well all i learned to do at his farm's was to do all the wrong thing's and all the bad thing's and all the short cuts they show you. part 1 of 2

part 2 of 3
I just want to say we tried to get help when we were working for them and as soon as i saw that shed with the Bobbi calf's in i knew where it was and whose farm it was and I did take photo's and video clips when we were working there and we did call Maf but because the new manager's did not want to get involved there was no way they could do anything just with 2 people wanting to do something. as there was not enough support to go any further to support what we had against the Crafar's.I have no sympathy for Alan at all when I have seen him cut off a baby calf's head off with a chainsaw because the cow was having issues of giving birth and he was a sick Man when he did that it made me sick that night he did that.

part 3of 3
I have now moved on since then many yrs later and have a new partner,when we My ex and i was leaving there the new house was just finished that he lives in and he was just about to go to Australia to buy more farms to increase his farms,All i have to say is I do not recommend anyone to work for them at all,you wont get help from them or compensation or anything accidents are a normal and almost deadly thing everyday on their farms. that's all I have to say but it's about time they got the Bugger's.

"˜Obviously the legal system thinks because we own them we should take responsibility.'
Alan Crafar.

http://www.ruralnews.co.nz/Default.asp?task=article&subtask=show&item=18...

Jesus, I can't believe that some people here were crying over watching this video. Yeah you all jump to persecute the owner of the farm who never harmed anybody. The animals are his to look after and if he failed he only failed himself and not the NZ society. He doesn't owe his animals anything, he only owes everything to himself. If such practice punishes him in the market place then that's his faults, not anyone else. Not commentators here who have displayed an almost maudlin concern for the welfare of those cows.

There are more important issues to worry about such as taxcuts, because the government is doing us over in there, but to cry over a farmer who neglected his own cows, who never stole money or hurt anyone here is simply pathetic. Get over it people. If the farmer in question had violated the animals from neighboring farms that were not his, then the maudlin concern is perhaps justified, but the farmer never did.

Falafulu Fisi what you say may be ok where you come from like eating your dogs but it isn't here in this country. The animals are his responsibility to look after. If he can't he harms the entire industry and he should get out. Same goes to you.

Falafulu Fisi may eat his own dog when he"s hungry but he makes a good point.
probably the most reasonable comment on this thread

This video simply adds to the growing dossier on the bad farming practises of this enterprise . Real farmers do care about their stock , and are appalled by what they see happening on Crafar's farms .

As for our " 100 % Pure " image abroad ; the Crafars have blasted a hole through that !

How's the head Bryan ? Good work . Next time take some big " heavies " with you , sorry that's right , Bernard was there !!!

FF said:

''Yeah you all jump to persecute the owner of the farm who never harmed anybody''.

Notwithstanding the animal neglect issues, it hasn't actually occurred to you then the actions of this farmer might just conceivably hurt the overseas markets on which our biggest export earner depends?

I tell you what, go over to Europe and find out how well this sort of story plays to the consumers over there and come back and tell us again how the actions of this poor misunderstood farmer aren't going to hurt anyone in good old NZ.

If New Zealand as a whole is a business then one of the most valuable assets is the brand. The NZ brand identity for many businesses is clean, green pure etc. Currently, there is no negative identity.

Any defense of these farming practices, even if valid, would be missing a more important business issue. Perception is everything; and if the consumers of NZ products don't like this farming practice then every NZ business is hurt a little. As the saying goes "the customer is always right."

An analogous situation is the backlash clothing manufacturers faced over using sweatshop labor. Protests from a small group can cause brand damage that takes years to repair.

This story has many elements which are important issues: 1)Poor debt management on the part of businesses. (Did anyone learn about capital structure on their way up the corporate ladder?) 2)Pollution. Many rivers are damaged by bad farming practices. The tourism industry just doesn't make a clear enough case for the economic damage done. There is a huge future scarcity value of a maintaining a pristine environment. 3) Refusal of many to accept constructive criticism 4) The lack of resources of many regulatory bodies.

Fonterra as a Monopsony has the power to ensure/enforce best-in-world farming practices. They have a responsibility to be a good steward of the NZ brand name

I don't see any point at all in what Falafulu says. The Crafars and their proponents are harming the industry and bringing the reputation of NZ and the majority of good farmers into international disrepute. This is what you have forgotten - conveniently. To blame a lack of taxcuts and other government policies on bad farming and animal husbandry practice is ludicrous and typical of the pass-the buck-attitude of the people we saw in the Closeup story. They got caught out - that's what really happened in spite of all the excuses.

Yeah you do that bobby you bloody good farmer you!!

!!!dickhead!!!

Kate - so true.

How many farms in NZ? For 5 investigators to cover?

Collusion from top to bottom? The sins of omission?

Carc,

I put my money where my mouth is and went to a dairy farm and got a dozen of the immune deficient little gems, have been around the clock feeding them for the past three weeks with milk replacer and electrolytes every four hours, only to watch each one die in my arms. Vet explained what the problem is and advised that I was silly trying the impossible. Carc, I couldn't not.

One of the hardest things in life is to love animals, period, and see the unjust and unfair start that admittedly a number of dairy calves get, and then be told why this practice is done, I cant see the point, unless the dollar signs are in front of the decimal point.

cheers for your comments but.

To Ian, Andy Hamilton, Lew Burton and Kate. You all believe that the Crafar's actions are unacceptable. Given my post above on the typical situation on a stock farm, what do you consider to be acceptable?

Suzie, I suppose the farmer you got them off had not let them have enough colostrum before selling them to you. Just get rid of the calves ASP and get the milk into the vat. Gota get the MONEY!!!!Money, Money, Money.

@Bob, it's not just about how many die, but how they die and what has led to the way they die - for instance, unnecessarily cruel deaths caused by neglect, deliberate or otherwise - is unacceptable.

Falafulu Fisi you said - ''Can you state how exactly he harms the industry? As I said, that the farmer only harms himself (financially) and not the industry''.

OK, will try and run this one past you again - just for your benefit

1) NZ farmer A (Mr Crafer) is seen to be mistreating his animals. This focuses attention on neglect in NZ farms.

2) Story about Farmer A (and others) is picked up by media in US and Europe (big export markets for NZ dairy produce). Unsurprisingly the farmers over there (our competitors) have a field day and very soon articles in the press etc reduce NZ previous clean green image for its produce to the gutter.

3) As a consequence Europeans and Americans no longer buy as much NZ butter etc.

4) Farmers B,C and D in NZ now go bust.

Now do you get it?

OK Jacko, so what is an unnecessary death? In years past we would let the cat die or ask the vet to put it down. Now, with new techniques, we spend hundreds of dollars on x-rays, operations, treatments etc and the cat survives to a far greater age. All those treatments are available for cows and calves also, but how much should a farmer spend? Every farmer must make those decisions about "welfare" versus the need to run a profitable farm. Sometimes those decisions complement each other and sometimes they conflict. I know that many of you seem to think this is all about money rather than welfare but if the farm is not profitable then it is out of business. I am not defending Crafars. I am just asking you to realise that farming has some judgement calls. I am going further than that and asking you to make a judgement call as to where acceptable crosses to unacceptable. So far you and most of the other posters here reject the need to do that. But life does not allow farmers to ignore that. Give them your wisdom as to where the line is.

Falafulu Fisi says " ...The animals are his to look after.....He doesn't owe his animals anything, he only owes everything to himself..." I say owners of animals and those looking after them owe it to those animals to not treat them cruelly. Allowing calves to starve to death is cruelty. And concern at it happening is not "almost maudlin".

I have worked around Dairy Farms as an Engineer and have seen many calves when they get sick they are just left to die not put to sleep , if they were Kittens or Puppys the owner would be prosecuted by SPCA and it would be all over the News .
But because it's Farming it's Ok ! Yeah Right No it's not . I have seen a Cow who was so sick she lay Dying in the Lane way close to the shed all the 650Plus milking cow's had to walk past her 4 times a day coming and going to Milking's , many of them stopped to sniff her as she took several days to Die . The farmer could have carted her away with the farm loader to die in piece or to shoot her , instead of stressing all the other cows . This isn't an isolated insident as I've seen it many time's before in feed Paddocks or Creeks the cows some times get grass staggers or Nitrogen posioning or are just poorly feed with over numbers and lack of feed in a cold/wet season .
It's a Shame on the Dairy industry as a Whole because it's not just a few Farms .
Come on MAF you know its a problem and
saying you don't have the resources is BULL SH-T ! Karl 150

@Bob -to kill an animal cleanly if you are not prepared to maintain it is acceptable. To knowingly allow suffering of an animal because you are not prepared to maintain it is not.

I personally like the way Terry Pratchett said it

'We are as gods to the beasts of the field....We order the time of their birth and the time of their death. Between times, we have a duty'

A duty not to cause needless pain, fear or suffering.

Gail M

Greate quote, those few lines say more than all our combined postings, thanks.

Healthy Soils Equal's Water Health The Great Carbon Con
We are having the Carbon pulled over our eyes. Is the Climate change due to Carbon or are there other more sinister gases which we breath that are causing Global Warming . Google what's in the air we breath .We all breath in : Argon 0.93%, Oxygen 20.95%,Nitrogen @ 78.08% and Carbon dioxide @ only 0.038% such a small amount !
So I ask the Question Carbon at so low a rate .038% why is this being targeted as the Source of all the Worlds problems . Look at Nitrogen 78.08% and a Green house GAS 310 times worse than CO2 and our intensified Farming practices are pouring on 10,000's kg of Nitrogen per year on to pasture that doesn't need it or either can't coup with it so that over 50% of applied N ends up in the Air we Breath as Nitrous oxide and the rest passes through our over supplied soils as Nitrates into our Water ways which we Drink.
When the soil is over supplied with Nitrogen Nature Shuts Down and doesn't do it's job , Earth Worms die off and Bacteria changes when we loose EARTH Worms we end up with Very HIGH Counts of E-Coli in out Drinking Water and Food Chain . Lack of Large Colonies of Healthy Earth Worm's Means Fertilisers get Locked up in the Soil so Farmers keep needing to pore more on to get, the same results as what Nature can give them for far Less Cost or Pollution . Earth Worm Cast's gives your Pasture 7 Times more soil Nutrients than Chemical Fertilisers can .
Other sources of Nitrous Oxide are also coming from burning of Auto Fuel's in car's etc, at what figure is this happening ?
I want to know is Nitrous Oxide coming from the burning of Fossil Fuels greater than CO2 ?
Wake up (is it Carbon) which is doing the Deed to our Climate or is it the Chemical Industries feeding our Farmers the Poison's of there Mind's . Nature doesn't need all this added Nitrogen and Super Phosphates Acid based Fertilisers ,which Won't Grow Healthy Soils and Crop's or Live Stock !
Healthy Soils will store (Sink) 3 Times more Carbon than the Atmosphere can .
So Why are We Letting them do it ? Karl150

This is the tip of the iceberg unless it is brought under control very quickly. Crafar is talking about selling a sizeable chunk of NZ to Chinese interests. If Fonterra get their way a lot more will finish up in foreign ownership. I am not xenophobic but have you ever heard of the album by Genesis called "Selling England by the Pound"? This country will go the same way unless this is sorted.

In the past far too many people looked at numbers and bottom line when investing. Investors are starting to wise up, and realise issues like this are a sign of bigger (expensive) problems. Many investors would see this behaviour as completely unacceptable.

If this was a public company, these issues would not be tolerated, funding would be close to impossible, and management would be sacked by the shareholders.

As this is a private company it appears the same public scrutiny is not allowed. However, I don't believe this should be the case, people (and the market) could easily stop funding if they were aware of these details.

It should be as simple as this:
If people invested in the same financing company that lends to a negligent company, these people should pull my money from the financing company for several reasons:
* Running a business like this is financially damaging to the industry (costly to other investments).
* The financing company is likely to make a loss on the loan.
* The financing company clearly has poor judgement
(what is the quality of the rest of their loan book like)

The issue is transparency/disclosure of this information, however with the internet sometimes this information finds its way to becoming public... for the good of the environment/people/country...

Some of the comments do not fit into an image of a modern society of the 21 century, but are rather of the "Firestone episode" - part of an evolutionary still- stand -and there is no excuse for that.

The greatness of a nation and its moral process can be judged how its animals are treated. M Ghandi

Margo said...
IF you can't get your head around why the Crafar Family are doing so much damage to New Zealand's clean green image

Margo, it is you that needs to get your head around the issue here. Start from primary as of the concept of rights, then everything else is secondary. Crafar doesn't run his business in order to protect some or conform to some green image. His life is to answer to his own, not to adhere to some expectations from animal lovers such as yourself. Crafar never violated your rights and that is the issue that I am defending here. Stop being a hypocrite, if you're so concerned then you should drive down there to Mr. Crafar's farm and give him a hand, since you love animal so much. Practice what you preach and if you can't, then stop trying to pass moral judgment on others who never done damage to you, because Mr. Crafar doesn't sit there at his farm and try to pass judgment on you nor me. He gets on with running his own business.

Bryan : Are you taking this up with the NZ Police ? The farm manager ( Sam Webb ) assaulted you . His bellicose reaction to Bernard and you , seems symbolic of the dysfunctional nature of the Crafars and their staff . Maybe this is symptomatic of a business that out-grew it's founder . As expansion continued , Alan Crafar did not employ professional business people in key roles , but drifted himself up , to exceed the level of his own competence .

Truely sad to see that some people ( a minority ) feel that animals have no rights . When it is patently obvious that they are in our care , and at our mercy . We're in the 21 'st century , yet some still maintain a brutish 18 'th century mentality .

No Roger, I would rather focus on making money and spending time with my son than sitting in Taupo District Court :-)

Good on you garry .i suggest before people judge agriculture and the crafers they do a bit more homework.Do the do gooders sitting on there we chairs in front of there cute little computers realize the damage a report like this can do to the dairy industry and the country as a whole I guess the general public dont realise the country makes or breaks on this industry. The situation on the crafer farm is unacceptable so the selution is to push Alan into the ground til he becomes cuacidal .What about we focus on one of his other farms that is going well and give him some support and let the athorities sort this out.The Crafers have converted most of there farms from sheep to dairying which has injected millions of dollars into peoples pockets and the economy.
That reporter is very very lucky sam webb didnt get a hold of him properly or he would not be talking on television. Keep your head up Alan

@Alan Maxwell, hiding and continuing to hide this would be a disaster....yes it damages NZ, a little, but what it does show is NZers are prepared to look after their own nest and fix the issues....The crafers need to go bankrupt, the land sold at a price that is sustainable for the incomes to competant farmers who will look after it properly....

They havnt injected millions into the economy, they have taken millions out in debt which someone loses or someone else has to repay....with interest...

regards

Alan Maxwell,
How can Crafer keep his head up when it is in the sand?
In fact he should be hiding it in shame
The "do gooders" sitting in front of their computers are the buyers of the dairy products .
The problem here is that some people who supply these products are not the do gooders in fact they are the "cruel bastards" that need to brush up their act.
Anything for a profit even going as far as starving baby animals to death.
It's sick, sick sick and will cost the industry dearly.

The New Zealand dollar's 45% rally in the past six months may falter amid speculation higher-yielding currencies and equity markets have run too hard, stretching valuations.

Five of eight economists and strategists in a BusinessWire survey predict the kiwi dollar will trade in its current range this week, after outperforming since its sub-50 US cents low in March. The three remaining analysts have a neutral outlook on the currency, but lean towards the downside.

Investors piled into higher-yielding, or riskier, assets when the prospect of a global depression dimmed amid extraordinary fiscal and monetary measures by policy makers worldwide.

The kiwi dollar has been a favourite for the carry trade, with its fortunes rising on upbeat economic data and rallying equity markets. It recently traded at 72 US cents from 71.90 cents on Friday in New York.

"Fundamentally, the economy is looking pretty damn good," said Imre Speizer, markets strategist at Westpac Banking Corp. Still, "there are more signals that the rally since February/March is fairly ripe and heading for a correction."

Speizer has a neutral outlook with a negative bias on the currency this week, and expects the kiwi to ease if it closes below 71.60 US cents in the New York trading session.

The key domestic data release this week is the National Bank Business Outlook, a survey of firms' expectations around the economy that has a close correlation with the Quarterly Survey of Business Opinion followed by the central bank. Economists predict it will continue to show improving confidence.

Robin Clements, economist at UBS NZ, said the market is "looking for an excuse to sell the currency," but the currency will probably remain range-bound this week as stronger economic sentiment boosts the kiwi dollar's fortunes.

"Business confidence is likely to keep improving, which should be supportive of the kiwi," Clements said.

The main driver of the currency this week will be a slew of data from the US and Europe, in particular the latest non-farm payroll numbers in America. The jobless rate in the world's largest economy probably climbed to a 26-year-high 9.8% this month, from 9.7% in August, according to a Bloomberg survey.

The number of Americans seeking unemployment benefits fell to a two-month low, according to the Labor Department. The number of claims unexpectedly declined to 530,000 from 551,000 in the previous week.

The other major data release from the US that could influence the kiwi is September's ISM manufacturing index out on Thursday in America, according to Deutsche Bank chief economist Darren Gibbs.

The market predicts the index will rise to 54 from 52.9 the previous month, and Gibbs said it may reduce appetite for risk down if it comes in weaker than expected. He predicts the kiwi will trade between 71 US cents and 73 cents this week.

Reserve Bank of Australia Governor Stevens told the Senate today that normal policy settings should resume once the "recovery phase" is in place, and that rates will be hiked "ahead of a build-up of imbalances that would occur if interest rates were kept low for too long."

The kiwi dollar rose to 83.16 Australian cents from 82.76 cents on Friday in New York. Australia is New Zealand's biggest trading partner. Stevens' opening statement to Australian policy makers follows comments from Federal Reserve Governor Kevin Warsh, who said a policy turnaround in the US could be greater than usual due to the pick-up in the world's largest economy.

Six of eight strategists in the BusinessWire survey predict the currency will stay in a range on a trade-weighted basis. One predicts it has a bias towards declining, and one other expects it to fall.

The currency was little changed at 65.59 on the trade-weighted index, a measure of the kiwi against the Australian dollar, greenback, yen, euro and pound, from 65.55 on Friday in New York.

Japan's Finance Minister Hirohisa Fujii told reporters at the Group of 20 Nations leaders' summit in Pittsburgh that his government was comfortable with the yen's strength, and wouldn't intervene in the currency. At the same time, Japanese fund managers are repatriating their money as the September quarter comes to a close and they prepare to reassess their positioning.

The kiwi sank to 64.05 yen from 65.09 yen on Friday in New York.

The pound has extended its losses after Bank of England Governor Mervyn King last week announced he was happy with a weaker currency stoking demand for British exports. The kiwi climbed to a new 13-year high of 45.37 pence from 44.88 pence on Friday in New York, and edged higher to 49.05 euro cents from 48.97 cents. The Australian dollar advanced to 54.50 pence from 54.22 pence.

The major data releases this week include second quarter gross domestic product data from the US and the UK, and the European Commission 's consumer and economic confidence surveys.

Locally, Statistics New Zealand will release new building permits for August on Tuesday, while Australia's retail sales for last month come out on Wednesday

STAY ON WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT

One of my many suggestions to Alan Maxwell 7.04am, would be to spell the Crafar name rightly if he going to support the man. I recall Bernard being roundly critisized last week for getting the name wrong, just once. And as for advocating further violence; what an oaf.

Cathy, I think that you should campaign to ban killing of animals (by law) for the purpose of consumption all together, after all, killing animals for that purpose is more cruel than negligence, don't you think?

Apparently the Crafers were stuck with another $90,000 fine just last Friday:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/2911923/Fonterra-warning-on-d...

Fonterra seem way behind the curve on this one:

""Fonterra Co-operative Group has called on its farmers to "be vigilant" around their on-farm effluent resource consent and regional plan-rules compliance.

Farmers should seek immediate advice if they are facing compliance difficulties, said Fonterra's general manager of sustainable production, John Hutchings""

And to david......

The rise and fall of the Crafars is WAY more interesting than current forex developments...

There are plenty of other threads if you want to discuss $NZD.

Congratulations Bernard, this is a quality news scoop and an exposure that the NZ public needed to see and hear.

We need more dairy farmers to condemn the Crafars..... I know there are good farmers out there but your voice needs to be heard.

Until the MAF start doing their job and prosecuting people for mistreating animals it will go on and on. A $200 dollar fine? Are you kidding me?? NZ MAF needs to pull their head out and start doing their job! Crafar should not be allowed to have any animals in his possession! The bastard even admitted to 56 counts of animal neglect and cruelty! MAF is a joke! What the hell is wrong with people? This man makes money off of animal suffering! I hope he rots in hell!! May he be cursed with a life of suffering!

Dawn said...
This man makes money off of animal suffering!

Wrong. He makes his money by minding his own business and at worst he makes most of his money by killing those animals for their meat. Don't you find that disgusting (ie, the killings) ? If not, then why not?

There needs to be a Royal Commission of Inquiry into the entire dairying industry(including all govt depts), with unlimited powers to search for the whole truth. This is not a matter than can be left to a blog site, or swept under the carpet by a poodle media, or dismissed as a one off event by a govt.

I work in a related industry and have been waiting for something to come out of this nature this calving season. It's an economic decision for the farmers. The farmers have 2 options, shoot them or pay the costs. With the number of calves born around the country running into hundreds of thousands, probably millions, it's a huge problem for the dairy farmers this season. The works are paying very little for bobby calves. Last year skin prices were reasonable, and that is where the works made money of the calves. The veal yield is only around 7kg so there is very little money in that.

The farmers have to feed the calves for 4 days to get them to a "truckable" state. The money they are receiving this season from the works/petfood operators is less than the cost of keeping them alive for 4 days. When the dairy payout has declined so much for the farmers, cull calves are just another cost that they don't need. The Craffers don't have the heart to shoot them, hence the problem of suffering to death.

Some of the slinky operators aren't even collecting dead calves as there is no money in the skins this season which creates another problem. These calves have to go somewhere, which one can assume is down a hole. I wonder how much water contamination will eventuate with all the leaching of dead animals?

Margo said...
Yes and it is how he operates his business that so disturbs myself and the many other intelligent bloggers on this site.

Yes, I wouldn't do what Alan's managements did, in this case to the animals, but I have no rights whatsoever to condemn the man for his actions, since he never hurt me. He never violated my rights one single iota. Intelligent bloggers? Ok fine. Now, I can point you out to something to read, and perhaps it will open you up to use reason. It should be easy to comprehend because you're all intelligent bloggers.

Animal Rights and Vegetarianism

Now, try to refute the points highlighted in that short article, again with a reasoned argument and not reverting to pointless reference to cultural superiority. Reason & Logic.

Finally, my previous comment about enhanced neuron capability to store, capture and retrieve info by eating dog meat was a sarcasm, if you didn't see it. It was a reply to Ian, which he brought up an issue that was unrelated to the topic of discussion and I knew exactly the angle that he was coming from.

Crafar 'shocked by calves mistreatment'.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/farming/2912101/Allan-Crafar-shocked-by-...

Yeah right. If any of the calves could have run for it he would now be busily bolting the stable door after them.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10600219

This is absolutely disgusting. If they can't run their business profitably without looking after the environment and the welfare of their animals then they should not be in business.

I run a web site development business in Christchurch, imagine if the only way I could run my business profitably was to dump loads of chemicals on the side of the road. Could I argue "I have to do it to stay in business!"... I don't think so.

Firstly to the ninny who claims letting animals die of negligence is less harmful and morally reprehensible than killing them for meat, I ask would you personally rather die slowly of hunger and thirst, even perhaps tangled in a fence so badly that your leg rotted off before you die or would you rather go out somewhat quicker, less obviously inevitable, and a lot more painlessly?
Fool! Another pretending ponce.
As for the debate about the dairy industry; the only thing that surprises me about this is that even though it has taken two decades to stir NZers from their deliberate ignorance of what really happens down on the dairy farm, given their claim of a love for watersports and fishing etc, when Maori ask who owns the coastline.
You see I can't understand why NZers are so complacent about their creeks and rivers, over 90 % of which have been rendered unusable by humans because they are overflowing with cowshit and superphosphate. Isn't that a bigger issue than the tenuous notion of 'ownership'?
Surely if kiwis felt so strongly about this stuff they would get upset at the way our inland waterways have been annihilated by the twin evils of dairy farming and mass tourism.
I may as well get a shot in now because we already know from the great pig torture debate than kiwis will stay upset about this for about two weeks before returning to their previous state of somnolent ennui.

After all, if all of that cholesterol impregnated dairy fat isn't sold to the fools overseas, they'll never be able to keep up the vig on their leaky cardboard box until they can sell it to a chinaman or jaapie migrant and get out themselves, now will they?

I don't know what has happened to this society. I have been back here just over 10 years and I thought things were bad when I got back but since then the unmitigated greed, uncaring attitudes towards fellow humans and determination to sell off anything including our once vaunted health and education systems has increased, gotten worse, not better.
This isn't only greedy it's damn stupid. In the light of that madness it's hardly surprising that at least some kiwis (sure many of the proponents are blow ins, carpet baggers who came here to make a buck and will move on, but there are kiwis in there too) think it is perfectly fine to destroy the country for generations to come, just to make a couple of extra dollars now.
The fact that the strongest argument most use, against the pollution and animal torture that is dairy farming, is potential destruction of our clean green image, says it all really.

How about not doing it because it's wrong and will destroy this part of the world we have temporary custody of, for many more years than any of us will live? When does that notion 'get a run'?

Excellent work Bernard is disclosing this issue. As usual, you have the insight and courage to address some key issues facing NZ.
The Crafars are a failure, both as farmers and as a business. Their environmental, animal welfare and farming practices are appalling.
However, we must remember that they are not representative of NZ farming in total. There are many NZ farmers who are world leading in environmental practices and animal welfare.
What this does highlight is the failure of Fonterra, and given their government legislated monoply position in NZ, this is a concern for NZ dairy in total.
Since formation, Fonterra has been driven by a race to the bottom. It's business model has focused on increasing production of low value commodities at all cost and on driving debt-fueled unsustainable capital gains, over income yields. The fact is that NZ has limited land mass and has environmental constraints, we should be focused not on producing more and more low-value milk powder but instead moving up the value chain to produce high quality, environentally friendly products on the basis of clean, green, ethical farming. That is where the money and the future is!!!! We will never be able to compete with countries in Sth America is terms of low-cost production and land mass so lets lift our game. Despite all the propoganda, the collaspe of the payout is the proof that after 8 years Fonterra is still a low-end commodity producer.

Not saying its right but seriously what business is it of anyone else as to how a farmer treats his own animals. Its the middle of the busiest time of the year on a dairy farm and some sick calves were not put down. This is local news at most. Spondre and Hickey are traitors publishing this stuff on the net.

Anyone who thinks this is anything to do with Fonterra needs their head read. Fonterra is a farmers milk supply cooperative. It doesn't own the farm or have anything to do with the beef, veal or pet food industry. Why is Hickey trying to rope Fonterra into this? Perhaps to get his name and website onto front page of NZ Herald with a tabloid beat up.

Trev, The whole outfit are a bunch of no hopers. You find that these morons feed off one another.Tthe whole debacle is a 3 ring circus.

It is about time the NZ government set up a competent management structure for MAF to carry out its duties properly. This animal cruelty issue is one of many that MAF should be made to account for. What about frequent breaches in Biosecurity, Food safety etc etc.

The computer industry has been, LoRatesGood, or how else do you know about it? Nothing wrong with exposing malpractice, whereever it is. Hence this article.

It is a concern the Government's Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries (MAF) is so supportive of this behaviour.

MAF will tell you they are doing the best they can, but clearly this is not the case.

@ From The Sidelines

You call Fonterra a failure and a government legislated monopoly.

Fonterra is the result of aroun 100 years of amalgamations of all the farmer owned and managed dairy co-ops. At the end of the amalgamation process there was essentially only one co-op left and government legislated to allow other dairy start ups to compete.

Fonterra is the largest business in the country, it delivers profit to its owners of such size that it impacts the whole NZ economy. Hardly a failure.

@ Falafulu Fisi - I agree that anyone should be allowed to run their business as they choose. However, society has laws for good reason and those laws need to be obeyed for good reason.

@ Gordon "He was committing a criminal act. Several actually, since they'd been told to leave, but took photos instead (according to the article). I wonder how the whingers would feel about coming home to find a stranger in their house?"

They weren't in his house and the only criminal act was the assault.

@Falafulu Fisi, I note your points made about complex and whole systems on other threads and individual rights on this one. Individual rights to freedom, choice and liberty are important, sure. However, if actions and behaviour occurs emanating from an individual that could potentially, or does, negatively impact on the freedom, choice and liberty of the 'whole', then how would you expect the 'complex adaptive system' that we are part of, as a society/economy, to then behave?

Some might see this as out of Interest .co's space, but dairy is part of the economy and a very important part. Plus, if other media and institutions have not picked up on this particular issue and those associated, for whatever reason, why should Interest.co not, especially given this sectos criticality to NZ's economy.

@Bernard, you ask some good questions of Fonterra, but if they stopped taking product, where would that leave the value of the operation and property? Where would that leave the value of other farms? Where would that leave the lender? Where would that leave the value of other farms - in the Ponzi-like house of cards various institutions have willingly supported this sector to become?

Oh, I can see why you are asking now.

@Trev - quite incorrect.

Tresspass Act 1980 makes no distinction between house and property.

For someone who claims to be familiar with the law, you demonstrate woeful ignorance in this instance...

The criminal offence is, by his own admission, covered by S.3 - Tresspass after warning to leave

Jacko, are you in support of keeping the situation out of the public eye, of not rocking the house of cards? Your final flurry is a bit criptic! ....."Oh, I can see why you are asking now".... please explain.

Gordon - I never made that claim.

The distinction between house and property is important - I might walk up your driveway uninvited for a perfectly legal reason - maybe to visit. It is very unlikely that I would be in your house uninvited for a legal reason.

Trespass (note the spelling) after warning to leave - what is a reasonable time for letting someone leave? He was in the car when the assault took place.

The assault was the criminal act.

Thank you Bernard and Bryan for publishing this.

Despite what many would think, this type of behaviour would have eventually come to light, but in the Daily Mail's of the world, or on the PETA; where the damage to the New Zealand brand would have been immeasurable.

At least by highlighting it domesitcally, we show that as a country we do not accept these type of farmers and the cruelty they inflict on their stock.

To the idiots arguing it is none of the public's business, and that we should keep our nose out of how farmers run their businesses - GROW UP.

The world (and in particular our markets) have moved on from a time where cruelty to animals was accepted, to the point where this sort of behaviour is abhored.

It is these sort of farmers that are traitors to New Zealand, and the general farming communit, with the damage they will have done to the NZ brand.

The simple reality is that the consumption of meat eggs, milk, cheese, and the wearing of leather do not necessitate "cruelty" and unnecessary suffering.

I get the feeling Fonterra is pulling the strings on this and MAF are doing the dance of the puppets with the foolish govt watching the show, while also directing their minions to biff the public from the theatre and keep them from getting a peep at the performance.

In todays Straight Furrow,

Farm leaders in South Cant and Otago welcome ambitious dairy expansion on irrigated land in Mackenzie basin. Development hinges on resource consents covering 27,000 ha carrying 22,500 cows on properties between lake Ohau and Omarama.
Dairy development is an exciting development say Fed farmers south cant president.
Milk to go to new independent factory called Oceania originally known as NZ Milk company. Oceania has high powered and Influential directors , Dr Keith Turner( ex meridian boss) and former Nat party and RB governor Don Brash.

the worlds gone mad.

AndrewJ
The last sentence made me laugh - you are soo right - the wor(l)ds of some of the comments here gone mad too - and a high IQ is obviously no guarantee not to.

Is there no other news that journalists can dig there teeth into. Tony Vetich appears to be getting his life together after a few suicide attempts and a failed marriage so maybe it is time for the media to turn on him again. What is it with our media where they fixate on a person or entity and then set out to prove that there very shallow view of the industry is correct. What has Fonterra and the banks got to do with the calves dieing on Crafar owned farms? Could it just be that the staff were underskilled for the job and the sinister person that took the video could of spent that time teaching the calves to drink, upskilling the staff and organised for the calves that were dying to be shot.
The thing that i love most about Americans is that they are proud to see their people achieve. The Crafar's have worked hard and achieved and that is why the banks have backed them to date. The banks are still backing them and the Crafar's will get back on there feet because they are survivers just like Tony Vetich.
If anything I propose that we place more rules and regulations within journalism as it appears that journalists lack ethics.

W.Kunz : Alan Crafar got banks to lend him $ 200 m. If this achievement is linked to I.Q. , then you and me ain't fit to tie our own shoe laces !!! ( I wear slip-on boots . Ha ! ) . As for helping Bryan S. in a scrape , I'm barely big enough to carry his mouth-guard , let alone the sponge bucket .

There do seem to be a number of folk who condone cruelty to animals , if it is kept hidden from view . Not my problem ? Sad .

hey i have been farming for 25 years before moving to city and this is NOT on.Dairy farming has sadly become more like factory production with everything aimed at the bottom line leading to animal welfare taking a backseat to the almighty dollar.Hopefully this is a isolated incident but somehow one doubts it!!!

Falafulu Fisi : There is a document called " The Animal Welfare Act (1999) " , which indicates to me that animals do have rights . And there is a list of key features to the act , top of which is " proper and sufficient food and water " . It is not rocket science , all laid out in simple English . the Crafars have been poor custodians of their stock and the land . Good on Bernard and Slugger Spondre for blowing the whistle on them . Clearly MAF are under staffed , and incompetent .

@Falafulu Fisi
I haven't decided to stop buying dairy or any other product. I've simply decided to try to be a lot more informed and to inform others about what is local and what is good. I do use my dollar to make my point but that would not stop me from condeming this man. He runs a business, whether he has daily contact with all parts of that business is frankly irrelevant, it is his business and he profits or loses according to that. He is ultimately responsible for everything that goes on in that business and cannot abdicate responsibility for it. Naturally there are others who should be held accountable - those working direcrtly with the animals - but that does not excuse him.

I'm not convinced that I entirely blame the banks or fonterra directly thought they certainly have a part to play. Fonterra should have a level of responsibility for the welfare of animals on the farms which supply them as clothing companies have a responsibility when their garments are produced in sweatshops.

I will vote with my dollar and I will continue to try to promote the local and the good producers.

Falafulu : Tigers don't come into my living room , so I return the same courtesy by not blundering into their's . Domesticated animals are the issue . They are in our care . Their lives are often uncomfortable , and short . Why do you condone adding neglect and brutality to their lot ? And don't confuse showing respect and care with the moniker " animal lover " which you attribute to those who oppose your views .

@Sam

Sure banks are going to have a (profit) sustainability policy - low cost energy saving light bulbs, emailed statements instead of costly stamps and envelopes ... but you could hardly expect them to have an animal welfare policy.

Several letters actually, Alan ...it's Allan as well. I'm guessing that care need to be taken, even in the contracting business.

Christov said...
we are NOT A.M.A just ordinary meat eaters like YOU maybe who would like to see a STANDARD observed and enforced

Tell me who the bloody hell should observe you? Can I observe you and make judgment call on what you do in your own property? Can I come around with a vid camera to film you and see if you have done something appalling according to the norms or wishes of the majority ?

Get on with what you're doing in your daily life , which is more important than you whinging about some neglected animals in some farms out there somewhere. At the end of the day, Crafar problems will follow him, not any commentators here.

-Falafulu Fisi said..

"since you love animal so much. Practice what you preach and if you can't, then stop trying to pass moral judgment on others who never done damage to you"

So what is the purpose of organisations such as the SPCA, who work tirelessly for the welfare of animals?

You are entitled to your opinion, and indeed is the nature of this blog, yes the farmer in question has the right to run his business how he wishes but when it means he affects the well being of innocent animals I think some one needs to step in. Otherwise what is the purpose of justice?

and...

"Trev, in what law that allowed Bernard and Bryan to enter this farmer's property, uninvited? You would react angrily to someone entering your property uninvited wouldn't you?"

Prehaps not lawful but considering the nature of his practices that have been exposed I think it is for a greater good.

In my opinion if you ignore the rights and mistreat another person, you forsake your own rights to a degree.

Why are animals any different? they still feel. I think you should ask yourself how you would like to endure that fate.

Yes we as humans produce and consume meat. However in my opinion it is our responsibility to ensure that they have the best life possible.

I say good on the people responsible for exposing such grotesque mistreatment.

Lastly if you want to express your views go right ahead, but i think that persecuting others for their opinions is more than a little pathetic.

I know the Crafar family well. I do not know a harder working kiwi family, and as a "townie" I put much of the success I've had in my own career down to work ethics I learned from them.

What has happened here is a sad story. From small beginnings, the Crafars built up an empire of dairy farms through entrepeneurship, innovation, and sheer hard work - the extent of which few people will truly understand. Over the years their sharemilkers, contract milkers, Fonterra, their banks (in particular), and the wider NZ economy have prospered from their endeavours.

As a family they have endured a lot - 10 or so years ago they were victims of a particularly nasty home invasion by four armed offenders in their isolated homestead. Just down the road, Beverly Bouma was murdered in her home in another similar incident. Some of the Crafar's rather hardened exterior and attitude towards life can be put down to experiences like these. Commets from Alan like 'there's some humans I'd rather shoot than a cow' should be viewed through this lens.

Unfortunately, as the Crafar's business continued to grow and expand over the years, the sheer size of their operation has gotten away from them financially and managerially. The results we all know about through the media. They now face financial and reputational ruin.

I have read with a mixture of emotions some of the posts on this and other sites this morning. Like most I'm angry that animals have been mistreated needlessly. Like few, I feel sorry for the Crafars who, while ultimately responsible for what happens on their properties, are now the targets of some pretty vitriolic and personal attacks, and find themselves in the middle of a media feeding frenzy.

Yes - if you take a few steps back from this, the Crafars must take some of the blame for this, but remember that this incident, as shocking as the pictures show, is happening to a family who find themselves in the middle of losing everything that they have worked for over the last 35 or so years - hardly surprising that at this time they are not completely on top of things in terms of management....

As some posters have pointed out, there are deeper issues to consider than simply self-righteous calls to have the Crafars run out of the industry and/or thrown in jail....

@Wally - "¦fat chance mate. The whitewash buckets will be out and the pr prix gearing up. Should be a whole wave of new advertising coming out of this.

@Joe - Sure banks are going to have a (profit) sustainability policy - low cost energy saving light bulbs, emailed statements instead of costly stamps and envelopes "¦ but you could hardly expect them to have an animal welfare policy.

There are two issues effluent in the stream, and dead starved calves - both fall under corporate social responsibility (CSR). You could say they they don't have a policy that specifically covers animal welfare, which is the same as saying they just don't care - not a very public friendly approach.

Both Rabo and Westpac offer kids bank accounts - how about you show this video to your children and then ask them if they would like to save with these banks. The market will speak, new accounts are an important business for banks.

Pj said...
Why are animals any different? they still feel. I think you should ask yourself how you would like to endure that fate.

Animals don't have a faculty of reasoning to be able to have rational thoughts, but humans do. They (feelings) don't have feelings, they have reflexes and that's facts. Deal with the facts and if you can't grasp that, then I suggest that you should try do some readings up on philosophy first so that you can understand what fundamental and immutable concepts are. Passing a law that says that animals have rights, doesn't automatically make fundamental concepts mutable.

Christov, didn't attempt to refute anything I said, he simply appeal to others emotions (majority here) that somehow his piss-take post was valid simply because there are more on this list that seems to say exactly what he agrees with. See, when I asked Margo to debate, she/he simply prefer not to, however reading about her moral judgment on Alan, makes one thinks that she has reason, which was none at all. Just empty rhetoric that appeals tot he emotions of the uninitiated on this thread.

MJ well said.

To most other comment makers your treating the Crafar family with more disdain than a criminal like Bernie Madoff. This is entirely inappropriate and disgusting.

To the other Bernard, your vendetta against the Crafar's is beyond belief, it is not appropriate content for the type of website you promote, if you wish to denigrate to a Kiwiblog level feel free to do so, but NO ONE WILL EVER TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY AGAIN (IF THEY EVER DID!) if you continue to engage in sensationalism.

I am disgusted by your childish behaviour calling for the banks to foreclose on Mr Crafar.

You and your website are a disgrace to fair and reasonable hard working New Zealanders.

I have to say compared to other stories on this site this story is very unprofessional - borders on gutter journalism - which is a shame because the topic deserves a better showing.

I know you are trying to stand up for animal rights but Crafar clearly doesn't have the capacity to deal with either the media or the public. His quotes are entertaining, but it's starting to feel like your bullying him. Probably better to focus on MAF/Police/SPCA/Fonterra for not doing their jobs. Crafar can only get away with it if they let him.

W. Kunz said...
I'm talking about the person you are arguing with. He tries to convince us, manipulating words/ sentences. I think not worth to debate with him.

No, Kunz. I don't try to convince you with words. I simply try to enlighten you with an intellectual argument in your English language (which is my 2nd language) that you seem to think that I am manipulating you with words. I have heard those comments before. When one is faced with a well reasoned argument, the opponent simply scream and say, please don't say those things because I wouldn't understand them.

See, the problem is the widespread. On the other day, a commentator called Steven thought that I said something that was a bare-faced lie. I presented him with logic, reason and of course scientific facts and that was the end of the discussion. I am sure that we could have continued if he came back to accuse me of manipulating words ( I mean I simply quoted some scientific publications), but I didn't. So, your crybaby here Kutz is irrelevant.

Perhaps you should lay a formal report to NZ Police for assault and battery charges vs the Farm Manager Bernard & Brian as that kind of anti-social wasn't warranted - you left when advised to, so the punch through the window warrants disciplinary action. We aren't a nation of thugs. The treatment of calves by this farmer is disgraceful as most farmers would agree. Perhaps MAF can prosecute, Fonterra can teach Crafar Farms a lesson by not buying from them until they sort their systems out.

Calling the banks to foreclose on them is over the top though. They are all big boys and can make their own prudent decisions.

@ Shorty

Couldn't have said it any better. This topic does deserve better than the emotion grabbing piece above. BH you've done yourself a disservice by focusing what seems to be a wider problem onto a man who - as Shorty states: "clearly doesn't have the capacity to deal with the media or the public".

Gail said...
I'm amazed that anyone who has worked closely with pigs can still believe that animals are machines that have reactions only, and not feelings.

Show me where in the scientific literatures which say that animals have feelings ?

Deny ourselves our humanity?

Crikey....

He's just constantly letting us know about his IQ - stupid isn't ? :-)

The greatness of a nation and its moral process can be judged how its animals are treated. M Ghandi

And to be honest, my god-fearing WTM.....

The situation is actually much more complex than it seems. When biologists interested in evolution theory first started examining social behaviour, some apparently unanswerable questions occurred. How could, for instance, the birth of sterile castes, like in bees, be explained through an evolving mechanism which emphasizes the reproductive success of as many individuals as possible? Why, among animals living in small groups like squirrels, would an individual risk its own life to save the rest of the group?

These behaviours are examples of altruism...

Could it be that say, dolphins, aren't as stupid as you think they are?

A little education for you Falafulu Fisi,
http://www.ruralnews.co.nz/Default.asp?task=article&subtask=show&item=18...

@Ray "God-fearing" - that I am not. I quite firmly believe that mankind are nothing more than a certain species of animal..

My comment about rights, and more specifically that they are human constructs, is more a rejection of a belief that only humans have rights (not that those rights exist)

I'm not sure where you have taken my statement to mean other than what you are also saying...

You point about animals displaying altruism such as squirrels, is merely reinforcing my previous statement that FF's statement that animals are incapable of rational thought is incorrect.

The average person only has to come home from a bad day at work, to see the concern shown by their pet to know, that animals are indeed capable of emotions.

Nobody ask where is MAF in this ?

If they warned the farmer we should ask WHY ?

Is it not there job to investigate and take action ?

Do you first warn the offender before you investigate ?

Is MAF doing it's DUTY ?

@Falafufu: "Trev, in what law that allowed Bernard and Bryan to enter this farmer's property, uninvited?"

Seeking the truth.....if there is a law being broken its not un-reasonable for a member of the public to ascertain and then follow this on to the police. and on the other side there is trespass law....all they have to do is get a trespass notice....violence is not acceptable.

regards

It is extremely gratifying to see the overwhelming majority of 200+ people commenting condemning this horrible affair. BUT, what are all of you going to DO about it? What ACTION are you going to take to see that appropriate penalties, including jail time, are imposed. Since MAF has known about this for years and has done nothing, it is clear that members of the public haven't taken action in the past. Do you plan to continue down that path? Public outcry is meaningless and useless without follow-up ACTION. As has long been evident in New Zealand, the government pays no attention whatsoever to what the public wants; referendums are ignored. How long are we going to allow this to go on?

I WILL NOT be complicit in trying to keep this quiet. Reputation should be based on truth. It is earned, for better or for worse, by truth and honesty. A reputation based on false perceptions is nothing more than a lie. By suppressing our faults we become liars. The only reason for "not hurting New Zealand," as expressed by the the alibi artists of this horrible mess, is GREED. In case you didn't notice, that is the government's (MAF) position: exposure of wrongdoing costs New Zealand money. Lying, cheating, committing horrible acts of atrocity and covering it up--is that what New Zealand is all about? IT IS IF WE DON'T DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

It's been said many ways, but Edmund Burke said it first a long time ago: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

@Falafulu Fisi, that's an good list of references. Can you answer my question please?

WTM said...
My comment about rights, and more specifically that they are human constructs, is more a rejection of a belief that only humans have rights (not that those rights exist)

Redundant. Humans are the supreme ruler of this planet and those constructs are man's own making. You are restating the obvious. You and me wouldn't be here debating if there were aliens that are superior to humans.

WTM said...
You point about animals displaying altruism such as squirrels, is merely reinforcing my previous statement that FF's statement that animals are incapable of rational thought is incorrect.

No, your point is unfounded. Animals don't show rationalism, period.

Jacko said...
Can you answer my question please?

You will find your answer in those papers.

Is New Zealand really serious about keeping on top of pollution of this country?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/2911295/Serial-polluter-...

"It was the fourth time Cudby had been convicted for pollution, with the last time being......warned he was on the "cusp" of going to prison"

"was elected to the Taranaki Regional Council "“ the region's environmental watchdog "“ in 2004 but was later removed when he was convicted on pollution charges. He ran unsuccessfully for the council in 2007"

"However, he had avoided imprisonment by only a razor's edge and if he appeared again a prison sentence would be inevitable"

Don't do it again. Alright?!