Interesting buckets they have in Switzerland . Our don't have cores . Not unless you fill them with apples . .......... . Or grannie's baggy bloomers , " cor blimey " .

Whatsya New Years Revolution , Walter ?

A very good question!

"Who's buying all that US debt?....all ponzi schemes eventually fail under their own weight. The US debt scheme is no different..... the Federal Reserve and US Treasury 'cannot identify' the second largest buyer of treasury securities. It makes (one) wonder if it's all just a ponzi scheme."

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/US-treasuries-pd20091...

Yes- Roggie I think Western societies need revolutionary type of events to avoid more serious ones. Political and economic systems are rotten to the core in many countries. I miss the broad movement of the young, intelligent spirits demanding changes - but without physical destructions.

It is scary quiet for my foggy state of mind here in today's foggy Kaikoura.
Walter

Saint Nicholas : Do you suspect the venerable Chinese are sopping up much of that US debt issuance . Bundling it away , for the future , when on a day of reckoning , they will grab our American friends by the short-and-curlies . And with clenched teeth and a steely eye , inform , " You payee now , Yankee pig-dog , or we squeezie family assets . Squeeze hard , Joe ! "

That's called " incompetence " , by Jim Anderton , the former minister of agriculture . Who refused government funding to contain ( and hopefully eradicate ) the varroa mite when it was first detected .............. Coincidence that Dow Chemical of USA were giving him their advice ( you can't contain it , pal , let it go , and use our products to cure infected hives ) . ? .............A little bit of lobbying goes a long way .

Walter : Get some old fish from the market . And slap the tourists mightily about the face with them . Tell them that is a sacred custom in NZ . And the prevention to getting second , and much harder fish-slap , is to buy something . That will appease the Cods of the Rare and Ancient Fish-Slap Ceremony .

Don't know . Got the info from some bee-hive inspectors that I chanced upon , last autumn . They looked around themselves furtively , and spoke in hushed tones ....... We were 20 km from the nearest soul ! .......... But their manner was of utmost opprobrium towards the Honourable man , Jim Anderton . And of dismay that we hadn't tried at least to fight the pest , we threw in the towel before the opening bell .

Crikey ! Well I didn't know that . Now I am informed . Will be more humble toward the bumble of my friendly bee , if ever I chance upon thee , once more . .......... Still reckon that Jim Anderton is a complete horse's arse , but !

Hmmmmm : US GDP = 25 % ot total world GDP : $US 14 Trillion economy ........... " environmental services provide more than US$100 trillion of economic benefit " : Friend , either you have been talking to Russell Norman of the Green Socialist Party , or to the statisticians who do sums for the Global Warming Socialist Movement ( A.K.A : Al Gore Inc . )

Kinda hard to explain 'environmental services' without getting into an essay...

What the figure represents, for example, is the total 'dollars' cost that would be incurred if nature didnt provide services like crop pollination for us (done solely by bees), and we were forced to do ourselves. Not that far fetched thanks to Varroa (the possibility of the internalization of this cost, not the 'with a grain of salt' estimation).

Thanks for the propaganda insight yet again Walter.

Luke, just be careful with your comments you could be under surveillance from officials using the working papers.

By the way: Strange/ unusual weather developments in Australia in the coming days/week- watch out.

@Bernard:

:0

Elephant in the room......you are stuck with the growth blinkers. You really need to research.

One of the disappointments (and astoundments) of this site is poor views looking forward in the medium and long term at probable impacts from, I assume business ppl and economist types here. Virtually everyone assumes business as usual....the next 40 years will be like the last....this is not guaranteed.....

so think please....

A hi flyer friend years ago said that when businesses overseas said NZers were some of the best what they didnt realise was they were seeing the best who had left NA, the cream of the crop. their assumption was NZ was filled with great workers/managers, they were wrong...what was left was and is (mostly) second rate...This for me is clearly represented/proven by many comments and some of yours....there exceptions, flashes of great insight and understanding, but little notice or comment on adverse events and outcomes that we cannot control, but at best mitigate.

Here is a start and watch 17a, b and c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwNgNyiXPLk

After that you may finally realise that growth is going to be an issue, we will be lucky to see any....

You love charts Bernard, charts imply data which implies research....with respect do so, you have [young] children...

Also,

One of the biggest excuses used for tax reform is it will improve the economy, political reality is its just a way to make the top 1% richer still and that 1% will want to hang on to what they have because they have it and having it means they are insulated from the realities that are coming. The problem with this is they are that 1%....they are over-welmed by the 99%...W.Kunz (12.48am) sees the risk as well I think.

So we are up against an expotential curve(s) that cant be beaten, but what you are saying is we need to cut some things so we can grow a bit further up the curve...all that really happens is, we delay things and have further to fall off the curve.

Migration? hell no, NZ has enough,

a) land area that our present 4 million can feed itself.....
b) A substantial amount of renewable energy that we have a chance of keeping most of our lifestyle, unlike the rest of the world.
c) Enough renewable sources like tide that if we go for them early enough to get them in place we will be even less worse off (we may yet thank Muldoon, which is a frightening thought).
d) Far enough away to keep or hope most ppl cant get here.

So, tax reform wont fix things.....not if the underlying problem is lack of cheap energy to keep growing, indeed even tread water.

@Dale: OZ isnt any better, in fact you dont have water....so its worse, NZ's big task will be to keep Ozzies out when they finally click....or our lifeboat will sink....cant take 17million on top of 4.

@RT: They wont need to squeeze the US's balls and say pay, they will have used the worthless USD to buy everything, between San Fransicso and New York. They will simply own it. though it will be worthless, so why buy it? what would be the point? if you have nothing of value why would someone deal with you? If it was me I'd use the USD to buy things of worth...taking over the US is a liability not an advantage.

@RT 14trillion economy, yet the total debt is 49trillion?....rising to $60trillion?, of which the estimate is they can only pay 30trillion, so they have to inflate by 50% or more...so the USD seems a bad bet, long term. ie at some point the Titanic sinks...right now it might indeed look in better shape than elsewhere....but long term? try looking at those URLs above, its not pretty.

regards

and a happy new year

So, tax reform wont fix things

Correct. Only slashing the size of the State and thus reducing the tax take will 'start' to fix things. Certainly not creating yet more taxes to add to the existing pile, much of which are unintelligible in the practice and application of.

not if the underlying problem is lack of cheap energy to keep growing

The fix to that is to remove the legislation, RMA, et al, and the irrational, Luddite, Cult of Green, that is stopping a free market providing for our future energy needs ...

One of the disappointments (and astoundments) of this site is poor views looking forward in the medium and long term at probable impacts ...[of running out of finite resources, blah, blah, blah]

It's more that free marketers, looking at a history of technological progress since the industrial revolution (and before that, movements such as the Renaissance, showing what can be achieved by mans mind), don't wake up each day and read the Book of Revelations over breakfast, then spend their time waiting for doom to befall them. What is destroying us, is a liberal cowardice and aversion to a once proud humanist, individualistic based philosophy of freedom, a classical liberalism, not that we're running out of resources. The latter is something that by that same cowardice we are doing unto ourselves. Which gets me back to the over-regulation of the Nanny State that is suffocating us.

Mark
Are you referring to the free market players like healthcare industry in US and the likes of GM,AIG and other vampires?

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/27/stimulus-timing/#more-6301

The worries about the second half of 2010......a good reason for Bollard not to raise before mid 2010....he may have to drop it again.

The new ones are a crock as well Walter!

Wally,

I wrote:
.... have to learn and work together.

Can you people please read properly, before making comments.

Mouse...
My thoughts exactly - love the idea of feeding back into the grid as in Germany- (but not all power companies permit this - last time I looked).

There is also remarkably little accurate information presented on this idea, and little encouragement given to pursue it.

My own thought is that somehow this solution doesn't suit the power companies.
Is it harder to sell them off?

Or maybe photovoltaics just aren't good enough yet?

If you can inform on this, please do. Ta.

Walter : You say old / traditional models don't work anymore ( 3:41 ) . I disagree . The oldest model of all is the market-place , the trade of goods and services by individuals , in the freedom from goverment interference .

It can hardly be accused of not working , nor of being of great benefit to us , as it has become polluted / convoluted / and ham-strung by bureaucratic thieves and busy-bodies .

Is it not time to give it another go ? Everything else we've tried , has been cocked up badly . How about the simplest and purest approach to industry possible . No government meddling !

Mouse....
Thanks,

Amusing myself by starting with the naysayers first (not a bad approach).
Suggestions here that Germany and Denmark aren't as happy about windpower as they should be - I'll get round to finding the positive thinkers in the end.

http://www.puketiro.org/

Mind you judging by whats hitting us outside tonight, we could run a smelter or two ourselves (ok, I'll do the sums...)

The link also reminds me of the 'drought' situation we seem to get every summer,
when its been flooding for the last eight months of winter. Again I'm sure its all to complicated for a simpleton such as myself to grasp.

Rogie,
For 35 years I'm successfully self- employed (17ys Switzerland 18ys New Zealand). In theory I feel and also often act on principles of liberalism. For intelligent and self responsible people an ideal life/ work philosophy.
But unfortunately life isn't ideal. Overpopulation, greed, corruption are major contributors and as we all know growing and influentially negative trends.
A free market approach to compete internationally for a small isolated nation like NZ is even for big, established companies a thing of the past. The private Sector need to turn the wheel around and work together, educating the government and make sure not to interfere but to assist the Private sector on many fronts "“ a combined effort.

Strategies need to be developed from the Private sector and the Government with a long term prospect of increased independence from foreign ownership, skill, knowledge, valuable imports and crucial infrastructural and security equipments.
What we are doing over years is importing too many valuable goods and exporting skill/ knowledge "“ capital.

In today's extremely competitive world as a nation we cannot live and work under the idyllic philosophy of liberalism (only). The world changed forever.

Walter

Walter....
Nicely put.

The rather odd approach of
"let me do whatever I want, to whomsoever I please, whenever I want"
seems like a last desperate cry from a gated community dweller.

A failure of imagination, an unwillingness to co-operate. A fearfulness.

If bureaucracy is corrupt - reform it.
If one persons "tax minimisation" seems like corruption to another, examine why and correct it.

Just do the job properly.

So uncivilised. We must try harder.

Climate does change from time to time. Always has and probably always will for as long as this planet lasts.
Ocean beds rise and fall with plate movements and temperature vatriations. The islands appear and sink with that natural occurrence.

The vast energy generated by the billions of galaxies in the known universes is at present unmeasurable and many of the energy wavelengths stiking this small planet are not fully identified or understood.

The notion that the puny antics of ant like humanity can substantially affect climate or sea bed activity is like declaring that a feather can substantially affect a hurricane.

What human activity can and does affect is air quality and water purity and land animal and ocean fish stocks. Those matters do and should warrant further inspection and actions.

People like Al Gore and political parasites can easily influence well intentioned but poorly informed and misinformed groups and individuals through the babble of media hysteria and sensationalism. This is how they make their money.

Sinking Islands and estuarine habitat Politiicians and the ever ready to accept handout political thugs of Africa and Asia are the natural partners of Al Gores and his ilk. Alarmist and aid racketeering is their meat and drink.
After the terrorism oil grab and military supply war rackets, climate change is the sliced bread industry of the cook up a disaster loaf merchants.

Check up on Al Gores green energy carbon trading investments and follow the dirty tax money slurping down that financial black hole.
The very fact that the same failures who brought the World so many uneccessary disasters are involved in finding yet another 'solution', should be enough to discredit any claims they make.

@The Chairman: read that piece (finally) on NZ power constraints, and yes its a concern. The issue is really no Govn in the last 20 years has wanted to invest long term...they have wanted the $ to spend now on pet projects....this is a huge failure of Govn...its nt doing its long term job....ensure NZ is secure. That and the RMA make it difficult if not impossible to get plants built quickly in fact not even in a reasonable time....I'd start shooting NIMBIES myself....

regards

@Khaled Walid:

" If we agree that governments are at all necessary, then what should be their legitimate function?"

We the people decide this at election time, we give the winning party(s) a mandate.

Should they be allowed to control us so completely on each and every aspect of our daily lives and write themselves blank cheques in the form of compulsory levies and taxation to spend in whatever amount and manner they choose?

If we the people give that mandate, yes.

If the answer to the last question is yes ( because that is what the New Zealand government are doing right now) "

No it isnt.

"then what is the difference between New Zealand style Democracy and soviet style communism ?"

A huge difference, if with your Libertarian blinkers you cannot see the huge differences, well you know that's your issue.

regards

@raf would you have a URL? that info is worth archiving IMHO.

(so I will do so)

regards

If we the people give that mandate, yes.

I never gave this or any other government the mandate to set up and run the Nanny State they have done, Steven. And certainly not on my money. I am philosophically opposed to the controlled society I live in, and yet I am forced to support it, against my will, with my effort. I live under a government that rules by coercion, whose sole function should be to protect my rights, but which routinely, instead, tramples all over those rights. The State we have ended up with is morally repugnant, and indefensible from a moral viewpoint.

Google 'tyranny of the majority'.

Bullshit Chairman. The welfare state is the main producer of violence and crime. As for my property being under siege unless I pay the fencing racket, that is a blackmail, and a sign of the moral bankruptcy that defines the loathsome position you represent.

A society that protects the individual via the non-initiation of force (or fraud) principle, and allows for wealth creation via a laissez faire market and sound money ( http://online.barrons.com/article_email/SB126167814839704681-lMyQjAxMDI5... ), in other words, that for the first time allows a state of freedom, is the best way to solve crime, and to allocate, incidentally, the resources within the economy. As for illness, I put it to you none of us can afford our expensive, bureaucracy ridden die-while-you-wait health system - as Americans are about to find out to their detriment.

steven,

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v387/n6630/abs/387253a0.html

a huge amount of new work has been done on valuing ecosystem services since then. here is some more recent work which quotes recent work from people like Jules Pretty at Uni of Essex who did a paper back in 2000 which showed a value of gbp250 per acre from ecosystem services locally.

http://www.choicesmagazine.org/magazine/article.php?article=18

fwiw i helped develop the model used for calculating external environmental costs at Trucost (www.trucost.com)

As a post script to my RANT above : Labour got away with so much bullshit ( 1999-2008 ) with the assistance of a pathetic opposition ( now the encumbents in government ) and a lily livered weak media . The journos went along for the ride ( there were exceptions , of course ) . ............. . C'mon TC , your " welfare state " is a failed policy of the past . Can we move onto something that encourages and enriches us all .............Rather than the tax / tax / tax formula of the past .

" Welfare keeps the people fed - " : I think I'm gonna cry , I really do . Oh dear ............Gummies : Must reach me precious gummy bears before I go into an apoleptic fit ..............Arrrrrrhhhhhhhhh !

Mark,
I'm philosophically also opposed to control societies.
I think Western societies need revolutionary type of events to avoid more serious ones. Political and economic systems are rotten to the core in many countries. I miss the broad movement of the young, intelligent spirits demanding changes especially adding life values fairness and ethics "“ away from consumption and corruption.
Entire Ideologies such as Liberalism or economic models do not apply for the current time (anymore).
The shifting of "World power", world- wide financial, environmental, population problems only to list a few, are preventing the use of economic models. The world has never been confronted with such combined problematic issues. Historic and emerging economic strong countries such as China (Asia) Russia, Brazil, India apply immense pressure for small countries/ companies to compete not only internationally. Our economy needs to be far better structured.
For New Zealand a form of central planning, a frame- work, is the key for success. A government, which is listening to experienced people/ business in the private Sector. The monetary system has to shift the goal- post. It is going to be a matter of surviving the upcoming turmoil- working together. A new way with new ideas a new orientation "“ what's best for New Zealand.

Walter

Mark and others,
Taking articles apart is a big problem on this blog.

Please, read my articles in a context and you understand.
..again Mark life doesn't come in Black or White, especially in today's world.

Walter

Mark - What you would find criminal is having your claim declined.

At least under the Government system you may have to wait but you are guaranteed cover.

Moreover, unlike insurance companies, the Government has far less chance off going under.

You are also contributing towards the healthcare of those less fortunate. Diseases can quickly spread and they are indiscriminant.

And by the way, private sector healthcare is not necessarily superior. A lot of the same doctors work in both sectors and they are not immune to medical misadventure.

The money for warfare comes from the tax take and I would rather pay for that than pay several times the cost to jail those that are reduced to crime.

A hungry mob soon turns into an angry mob and an angry mob means trouble.

A hungry mob soon turns into an angry mob and an angry mob means trouble.

You're big on the blackmail approach to running a society aren't you.

Get the State to create an underclass, an increasingly violent one as they are born to limited options (the example of their parents, for instance), use the effort of the productive to do this, and then when the underclass gets so large, tell the productive they must keep feeding them otherwise they will take it for themselves by force.

Pretty ugly really don't you think?

So even when I know you're wrong, and heading for a fall, I shouldn't tell you?

It's not childish. It's just debating, it's how we define our beliefs. When your beliefs don't stand up in the fiery cauldron of logic, you know you have to re-examine them and correct them. That's how we learn and progress.

Be nice to each other, Mark and Walter...you are both terrific posters. I was just thinking about how the State giveth and taketh away from the peeps. First evening classes and school swimming pools and now free Xmas day travel...seems a bit mean and petty when compared to the scale of waste and largesse that has occurred at high levels.

"as Americans are about to find out to their detriment."

The proof is in the eating, Americans live shorter lives on average than just about any other 1st world country yet pay nearly three times the cost. The American people have pretty clearly said they want that fixed. The trouble with Libertanz is, its a wacko theory in a few kooks heads that wouldnt stand the light of day in the real world, thankfully it never will either.

regards

It's fanatical and bordering of mental instability to say 'when your beliefs don't stand up to the fiery caultron of logic' in a debate?

Huh? How is it fanatical to say that? I was simply explaining the process of debate?

It is as if decades of social welfarism has addled the brains of Joe-6-pack Kiwi . The money for someone else's free ticket-to-ride comes from where , Chairman ? Do people really believe that the government is so clever that they create munny ? When the clear and totally overlooked truth is that they forcibly take it from someone else in the community . There are real people and businesses out there , TC , paying a high price for the utopian egalitarian state , which you defend so mightily . Wish you put the same amount of passion into defending me from the taxman , who takes a usurious chunk of my weekly wage ..............To the greater benefit of society . I should feel so proud ..........But I don't .

so are the insurance policies which my relations pay for in the States

What are they paying? And for what?

Mark "“ I don't advocate violence and it's not "blackmail", it's merely the reality of human nature. Unlike your textbook ideology, in the real world, political policies have social outcomes. Hungry people will resort to desperate measures.

Indeed, Mark, the state has helped to create an underclass (through the transfer of wealth) but ironically, if the state wants to help increase employment as well as incomes they need to get into the market. Cycle tracks just don't cut it.

You can't create an underclass and not expect the current consequences - and you can't then turn around and blame the underclass for a predicament of the state's making.

Roger - It's a fallacy to think that the recipients of welfare are the same group of society. Apart from some extreme cases, recipients are constantly turning over.

The media always highlights the extreme cases but give success stories little attention. I suppose "Joe six-pack" getting a job doesn't really sell papers.

Welfare is a form of insurance provided by the state with premiums paid through the tax take.

It's a much-needed safety net. It keeps our communities relatively safe from crime allowing recipients access to the necessities of life.

The objective shouldn't be to drop the system the objective needs to be creating jobs and improving skills while ensuring the system isn't being abused.

I have proposed a system on here before that would defend you from the taxman and overtime would see Government become self-funded. How's that for a tax cut?

Kleefer, I agree that health insurance here is cheap compared to the States, but I'd have thought the main reason for that is because we have a public health care system. The insurance therefore only has to cover the "user-pay" component of the cost - is that not right?

Way to go TC..welcome to the real world..glad to see you have realised what is causing the problem..."Indeed, Mark, the state has helped to create an underclass"...why did it take you so long TC?.

Does anyone have details of the health care cost escalation in the US as a result of the medical profession running scared of the next malpractice lawsuit "“ the cost of unnecessary procedures, for fear of such litigation, and the cost of professional insurance?

And the difference between NZ and the states on this one?

The jungle makes the animals.

John, I have no idea of the associated cost loading but I'd say its huge. Last figure I'd heard was about 7 years ago of a brain surgeon who paid a premium just under USD $1mil pa for his malpractice cover. And on the unnecessary procedures front - the worst effect sees the medical profession generally not allowing people to die with dignity. Even if you have a living will in place - it takes alot of conviction on the part of the relatives to ensure that the persons wishes are carried out.

Does anyone have details of the health care cost escalation in the US as a result of the medical profession running scared of the next malpractice lawsuit "“ the cost of unnecessary procedures, for fear of such litigation, and the cost of professional insurance?

No facts at hand, John, but there is quite a movement in the States, which I suspect the Libertarians have 'signed up to', to simply reform the law of torts, rather than to socialise the health sector into some much more costly and fundamentally worse than they have now, especially if it is done with no law reform so the system still has to pay the huge and 'out of control' malpractice cost. Because then it will be just the cost of a huge bureaucracy on top of all existing costs.

Off the cuff, it seems to be a sensible approach to me.

Health is one of those issues I wish I had so much more time to read on, it's such an important field, but, work, etc, not enough hours just yet I'm afraid.

I think I've mentioned this before. A friend of my parents was the chief policy advisor on the insurance industry to the Reagan administration. He was sent to NZ to look at our ACC system and legislation - and recommended against the US implementing something like it at the time.

20 years on I was speaking to him - and he said it was the worst call he'd ever made in his 40 year career in that industry.

We had a discussion on healthcare costs a few months back . One of the cheaper systems seemed to be the Singapore model . Sadly Mark , it involved some degree of compulsion , a compulsory health and catastrophe insurance scheme . If unused by the individual , the ordinary health benefit accrued , until needed , or until retirement . There were similarities to the Australian compulsory super scheme .

One advantage was that it incentivised individuals to stay healthy . .......The " pot of gold " at retirement .

I drove past a hospital a while ago.. There were a group of patients, in their hospital gowns, outside having a cigarette"¦

You need to read this, and see if you want a State Healthcare system:

http://lindsaymitchell.blogspot.com/2010/01/maori-women-and-smoking.html

If one in three Maori women is on a benefit, one in two Maori women smoke, and smoking rates are highest among low income groups, the chances are the taxpayer is paying for their cigarettes or rollies. The taxpayer is also paying for their cessation attempts, on average numbering 14 before successful.

I do understand your feelings RT and MH but not all non smokers and non boozers live to reach 65...it does depend a good deal on your dna present at conception!. So if we have a system that rewards the 'well behaved'..it must reward the poor sods who don't reach the finishing line. That goes for the accidents too. I think maybe social pressure on faggers is the way to go. Remember, most of them will never receive a pension.

Wally : Under the Singapore health model , those who peg out prior to retirement , automatically have their accumulated monies bequeathed to their next-of-kin . The gumnut don't touch it ( or so I am informed ).

I'm impressed, Les. I've been following your posts with interest and I see you've come along way. However, some of your comments clearly indicate you're being held back by your own bias and therefore, haven't properly digested my reasoning, hence I feel I need to expand on why Government needs to play a larger role.

We all agree the current system is failing and many distrust Government just as they distrust the banks. However, to eradicate the rot, we need to remove the fiscal incentive that drives those to rort the system.

The private sector is purely profit driven and therefore is incapable of removing the fiscal incentive to rort the system, thereby making them ineffective in this regard.

Alternatively, the Government has the flexibility to achieve this, hence must be utilised.

In fact, Government involvement seems to be where we part ways, which is a pity because the answer too many of your unanswered questions can be solved with Government market participation.

However, after years of bad governance I know it's hard to warm to the idea of Government playing a larger role but when you think of Government try and envision a Government structure that is more accountable and is working in the national interest. The more you think about it the more you'll see it makes sense. The potential benefits are massive.

And when I say a larger role, remember I'm only talking about correcting the current imbalance and getting the most out of Government.

I'll use your first example as an example. A private facilities management provider will want to maximize gains, however their gain comes at our expense. It drives up inflation while also reducing our international competitiveness. The inflationary pressure puts pressure on interest rates (through the OCR), which, if increased, widens international interest rate margins attracting speculators.

Moreover, if they are foreign owned, capital will head offshore. We desperately need to plug that hole - not add to it.

A private facilities management provider is an unnecessary middleman which we can avoid by merely hiring the expertise.

The overall objective is to bring power costs down benefiting the nation overall. This can be achieved by nationalizing the system, abolish duplication, reset pay structures and incentives, and, finally, returning to the public service model. We need to maximize gains offshore not onshore - maximizing electricity gains onshore is counterproductive to the objective.

I see you were asking: "how do we allow NZ smaller companies to get larger, more profitable, not sell out/stay here?"

Perhaps you should be asking how do you encourage a company to grow when they are content not to? Have you forgotten the triple BBB mentality that needs to be overcome? Once again, Government can help us overcome this hurdle.

Chairman : You want to remove the fiscal incentive to rort the system ? Now let's be clear on this , " rort " is an emotive term to villify those who use legal entities to minimse tax . Why do people wish to minimise tax , is the heart of the issue . 'Cos the gumnut take too much . And why do they take to much ? 'Cos they are still trapped in cradle-to-grave-welfarism , nanny state wants to do every for us , as we are deemed to be incapable of running our own lives .

The answer lies in the role of gumnut . In how much it does . In how much it spends . Please do not blame the productive sectors of our society for the failings of the indigent .

We need less ; in fact no gumnut participation directly , in the market-place at all .

Also Chairman, you might want to consider this quotation:

Mervyn King, Governor of the Bank of England, complained recently that he lacked the powers required to fulfil his new statutory role of ensuring stability in the banking system. A more powerful Bank of England would do a better job. He is wrong. The economy would benefit from a weaker Bank of England, stripped of its principal power: namely, the power to set interest rates. .... No one should be allowed to set interest rates. According to Friedrich von Hayek and other advocates of the Austrian theory of the business cycle, it is this interference with interest rates and the money supply that causes an unsustainable combination of consumption and investment - a boom that inevitably leads to a bust. Conventional wisdom contends that the current recession was caused by the free-market zealotry of recent economic policy and by excessively low interest rates. It is an absurd view, given that interest rates are not determined by market forces. Interest rates are manipulated by central banks with a government-mandated monopoly in the issuance of money. Some of those still defending free markets protest that, contrary to popular opinion, banks were heavily regulated before the financial crisis. So they were. But this is quibbling. The role of central banks means that, at its core, we did not have a free market financial system. We had a command economy. Command economies do not fail because the central planning agencies lack the powers required to bring about the best outcomes. They fail because, without market prices, nobody has the information required to adapt the allocation of scarce resources to the demand for them.

Quest Columnist: Strip the Bank of England of its Powers - Jamie Whyte

TC - just briefly scanning. Your 5.17pm, "I'm impressed, Les. I've been following your posts with interest and I see you've come along way." Ha, ha, ha. You sound like the Dark Lord of the Sith. Ha, ha, nuff said.

Cheers, Luke.

PS - Anakin says hi, but regrets. (Not surprisingly, he's legless, as always.)

PPS - TC, your'e not learning are you pal? What ugliness have you demonstrated in that comment?

Wally - hopefully tomorrow morn after m' bacon. Cheers, C3Pee'pee'o (shit, m' dipsleckika is bad today.) [Roger, you can guess what's happening here. huh?]

TC - Grrrr, where's m' salmon. Example 2? Comment? Explain? Cheers, Les.

TC - let's twist again, like we did last ..... 9 years. Example 2? Comment? Explain? I'll be "impressed" if you can give me a sensible answer? Cheers, Les.

Wally - looks good at first glance, can the coach and horses go this way at least:

http://www.interest.co.nz/ratesblog/index.php/2010/01/06/reserve-banks-m...

Thoughts?

Cheers, Les.

Just watching TV1 article on medics moving trans-Tasman as the Australians change their rules "“ it seems the jungle over there is better for Kiwi doctors.

Referencing the earlier comments on this thread - best to stay healthy from many perspectives eh?

Oh, now we are to ACC levy increases"¦.

Wake up NZ!

John Walley and Wally. Below is an interesting article on the money supply, in the form of a refutation that the explosion in the monetary base (US) is nothing to worry about.

Of course it is everything to worry about, it is at the heart of the financial crisis. But regulation is not the answer, regulation consequent on central banks and big governments, distorting markets and the cost of credit, are all components of the problem. Laissez-faire and sound money (linking to a commodity basket) some of the elements toward a solution.

Article here:

http://mises.org/daily/4005

Regulation is the only answer! Trading banks seeking to flood a market with cheap capital borrowed in Japan or the States, must be liable for any damage their action cause in the same way you or I would be for our actions. There has been no attempt made to do so because the govt creams off tax on the profits made on the gaming of the market by the banks. That was Cullen's error. He allowed the gaming and bubble because the tax take went up. To expect the Market to adjust and balance out and repair such damage is a folly. Sound money comes from sound management and if need be bloody strict laws. No different to the laws that punnish for printing fake money.

No Wally. Regulation denotes big government and central banking: in other words, central planning.

The answer is to remove central banks (and governments) from the economy. The inimitable (Austrian School) Dr George Reisman speaks to this well in the below Barron's article:

http://online.barrons.com/article_email/SB126167814839704681-lMyQjAxMDI5...

How many more crises must we endure until we realize the common denominator is the creation of money and credit by the Fed? Wall Street bankers and speculators, who try to game the system and make profits during each boom, are mere bit players in these crises. By fostering the booms and triggering the busts, the real villain is the institution of central banking itself. Thus, instead of providing stability to the economy, central banking has created great instability. Until this is understood, we will make little progress in preventing future crises or easing the current one.

Lurching from crisis to crisis in boom-bust fashion is unacceptable and unnecessary. The Federal Reserve must stop juicing the economy with massive amounts of newly created money and move to a monetary system free of government-caused booms and busts. The only effective way to do this would be to remove control of our money supply from politicians and their appointees. We need to move to a money that is 100% backed by a commodity, such as gold. Only then can we rid the economy of the devastating effects of the creation of money and credit out of thin air.

Reisman runs an interesting blog here:

http://www.georgereisman.com/blog/

And 'sort of related', an interesting article on free banking:

http://blog.mises.org/archives/011369.asp

The arguments in favor of 100 percent reserves for banks, when properly understood, lead to no capital shortage.

Finally I have an answer....take one Mark Hubbard and one Les Rudd...blend for 2 minutes and then bung in the oven to get middle of the road cakes.

Wally - 10.38am and your comment to Shaun on the other thread - are you going down the the insults track again? Plus, to imply that polarity and simple dimensionality implies you don't recognise things might be a little more complex than they first might appear. If I've learn anything from engaging in the Int.co blogs it's that, and to be more open to ideas, especially if direct real world evidence exists to support them.

Grrrr, where's m' salmon, Les.

PS - The Chairman - am still waiting to be impressed by your answer to, "Example 2? Comment? Explain?"

One bloke's insult is another's healthy banter. Or are we subject to what Les decides is PC for the site.

I am afraid, there we must disagree Mark. Your concept falls over when you start to consider the impact of cross border currency movement. Ditto when you look for an entity to prevent the Madoff or Enron behaviour. I too am not happy with nanny state stupidity but I cannot see markets operating without 'police' and 'regulation' in the same way that communities cannot without the police, the laws, the courts etc.

Wally - as you know, am all for some banter, but it does get tedious after a while. However, you carry on, it can be funny, in a variety of ways. Banter on. As for interpretation and PC'ness, hmm, I guess I try (and maybe fail at times) to moderate myself by reflecting on how banter might be, or turn out, based on my experience of real smoko-room banter, where personal presence and being face to face is usually a the moderator. It was my experience that things remained generally honest, jovial, but maybe slightly more measured than what we see in 'bloggy world' from time to time. However, you carry on, don't let me stop you enjoying yourself, it can be funny, in a variety of ways.

Cheers, Les.

Mark - just seen your 11.45am, hmm, maybe I have been, or could be seen as a leettle bit sensitive on some things, eg. what I've seen as insults and the occaisional appearance of racist comments, both of which I've complained about. But maybe making those kind of complaints might stifle expression, for some, so I'll try to bear with it in future and not complain. Point taken.

Cheers, Les.

Of course , a quick remedy , so that we can move on , is for the initiator of the comments to immediately apologise , .............. As I always do .... And onwards to more stimulating topics . [ no real harm done , no Nun's exploded , no orphanages burnt down , we're cool ! ]

As far as state regulation goes, you do have to wonder how much is really needed and does it really work.

Let's take both Enron and Madoff, before both of these were exposed, there were individuals outside of these entities that did their research and had concerns with both these companies. These individually knew that all was not right well before the SEC stepped in.

There are two problems I see with too much regulation:
1. Dishonest people can sidestep it (they know exactly what to answer to avoid getting caught).
2. The general public stop thinking and asking the right questions - they (incorrectly)take the view: "because there is regulation they are safe".

That's down Les's way isn't it?...Hey Les what the story down there?...why were the gates locked blocking off access to the river sites before and during xmas?

Walter...what's going on down there???? First river south on the Hundalees and the place locked up....lovely spot for the sprogs to splash and some bugger puts a stop to it!!!!!!

Wally : Hazard a guess about the locked gates : A small proportion of the populance behave badly , and do not respect others' property . Some long sufferring cockie(s) had a guts full of the rubbish and damage , and said " Feck the lot of youse . Stay out ! " .............And can we blame them ?

MORE CAPITAL LETTERS , SORE MAN

CANNY GET 'TA GRIPS WIT DA LOWER CASE WRITING .

YA CANT RANT POLITELY

PUTCHA CAPS-LOCK ON

AND GO TO TOWN ME OLD SON

HAVE SUM FUN

'COS RT FARTY SAYS SO !

ROGER.....was just a joshin......this is way too much FUN.

Nah WALLY...

AH KEY-LA....has gorn trippin.....again....probably by bike...got his merit badge.

Been on telly, got the FAME bug. Then got the travel bug....

And buggerd off. (Just luvved that TOY-OTA add)....

Lucky we got Jerry and his pacemaker to stand ....bye.

BUTT we got hell-en back...or is that gorn to hell-en and back.

U.N.ited ....or is that knighted....for services to idiots for 9 long, long, long suffering years.

Jobs for the boys now...what a payback.. miss-manage New Zealand and get rewarded to miss-manage the rest of the entire UN-der-WORLD.

Expect the world to breed more idiots at our expense...any time soon.

They need more CANNON fodder at the UN.

U.N. perhaps it is a place where they send all useless POLITICIANS until they or their PROTECTORATES......DIE.

Name me one piece of UNITED NATIONS effectiveness in the past 50 years.

Just who is daft.....me...or thee.

TC - Example 2? Comment? Explain? I'll be "impressed" if you can give me a sensible answer? Cheers, Les.

Subsidies distort the market. We need Government to correct the current imbalances and partake in the market "“ not distort it.

Clueless contradiction after clueless contradiction. The minute the government 'partakes' in the market, it is distorting it. Subsidies are the result of governments 'partaking' in the market. Hayek, read Hayek, please - The Road to Serfdom.

You weren't the bloke running the show at Chernobyl?

john walley ---re your 06/01/2010---10 41pm
http://bigpondnews.com/articles/Health/2010/01/06/NZ_medical_worker_shor...

@4.49pm: "Government policy failed to address the widening disparity and in many cases increased it."
@5.59pm: "We need Government to correct the current imbalances and partake in the market"
How do these two statements go together? Government policy failed, so we need more of it?

Won't his glasses fall off , if they each have his ear ?
Them wot love QE , really are queer

Chairman your argument is thin
.........it is boney
On this thread start singing

" Lord I'm so lonely "

Nicholas - Market participation is Government utilising our tax dollars and starting new export ventures so they can then earn us a return, which they can then use to offset tax cuts and benefit the nation overall (infrastructure etc...), or Government using its flexibility to provide services at cost.

We need competent Government working for us "“ not against us. (Note : see links below)

Les "“ You seem to be confused. You've got me confused. I'm not advocating for Government subsidies, which I'm taking you think I do? (Note: one of the links below is more along the lines of my way thinking)

Apart from food, Wally, care to tell us what New Zealand made products dominate our stores?

Dead right, Roger. Those who drafted and passed the laws have the final say, therefore are totally accountable for their failures.

Failing to recognize our mistakes will only lead to a failure to correct them.

The following is something we all need to ponder:

Is this (the following link) Government working in our interest?

http://www.voxy.co.nz/national/government-plans-225000-job-annual-subsid...

Or is this:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=1061...

I know what kind of Government I want "“ do you?

Failing to allow Government to participate in the market (preventing them from generating a return) ultimately leaves them no recourse but to tax us more.

As an individual, there is little one can do with a dollar, but times that by 3 or 4 million (when collected by government) and your opportunities vastly increase. We need a Government that is prepared to utilise those opportunities "“ not squander them.

People seem to forget that tax is a two-way street. What the Government takes they must also return. I expect a competent Government working in the national interest, producing a better return "“ don't you?

Chairman : As you say , " Those who drafted and passed the laws have the final say , therefore are totally accountable for their failures . "

Now , why did they pass such useless laws in the first place ? Are they incompetent / are they not well advised / has any politician ever ( unilaterally ) sought the advice of people in industry directly .

To pick just one " for-instance " did Cullen bother talking to accountants / financial planners / the NZX / Gareth Morgan , anyone with an ounce of sense , before introducing the 39 % income tax level ? Why increase the top rate ? Why to 39 % ? Why set the threshold at $ 60 000 ? Just one leetle example where a politician , not held accountable for his blunders , screwed up mega-big .

And you advocate more of this ?

Any intelligent man will avoid the idiots.... thunkings.

Tis part of the game.

From the day I stepped on these fair, far from reality shores we have had to shore up successive governments, their idiot decisions, their excessive, non productive spending, shon-key infrastructure and favouritism policies, yet still make a living, IN SPITE of them..... not SUPPORTED by them.

Time to STOP was my thinking in the Hell-en & Cull-em years.

BREEDING IDIOTS.

Why have a business that you constantly have to amend to work around successive IDIOTS.

Why have a business, where a drug dealer has more rights than the employer.

Why pay PENAL penalties for people who should be in a PENAL colony.

A perfect example of the fact ye canna fire the useless idiots we are often misguided to employ.

Why employ more people for the excess paper work, make work schemes of the GORMLESS beauraucrats NZ is so ENOURMOUSLY fond of.

Why pay TAXES for half the people working to SUPPORT the IDLE IDIOTS miss-managing and BLUDGING this fair..... BUTT.......totally .....unfair nation of people.

People who NEVER had to pay their OWN fare, but can sit on their BUTs in IVORY TOWERS and COUNCIL MANSIONS....

But it is my right people.......people like have I got a BILL for you, tripping the light fantastic...RODDERS and HONE-y tongued, c-smoothie to NOT name three.

I could go on all day......but this is a short rant.

Consequently the businesses are drying up, going overseas, failing, outsourcing, are over reaching financially, floundering with no SUPPORT or even fish to fry.

I just wish the entire GOVERNMENT and their HANGERS on would export themselves TOO.....and NOT on another......damn JUNKET.

Some of us have better things to do.......If they don't go...then I ....and my funds....will....and a lot more like me.

Smarmy, shon-key narrow minded BLUDGERS...one and all.

HIPPO-CRITEs.....one and all.... sheer useless hypocrites.

(A hippo-crite is a bigger one).

She'll be right...mate......well it is not YOUR right to steal the labours of others.

Well maybe.......... NOT..... in the real world..

Really.....Wakey Wakey...... NZ.

Or she will still be ....WRONG.

The thieves are running the place.....Go FIGURE.