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Opinion: NZ's recession - a piece of cake?
By Neville Bennett The forecasted performance of the New Zealand economy is debatable. The Reserve Bank's latest Monetary Policy Statement bullishly states that there has been a modest contraction and forecasts "little growth in activity from now through until the middle of 2009. Thereafter, we forecast growth to begin to recover, but to remain below trend until 2010." Such forecasts are important. Businesspeople reading the Statement may decide that little adjustment is needed beyond being vigilant over costs and economising on overtime. The Bank claims, in effect, that there will be little growth for six months, but modest expansion will then occur. This recession is a piece of cake.
But I believe this recession will be deeper and last longer than mid-2009: a nasty shock is headed our way. The Reserve Bank's interest rates (5%) show that it is more bullish than other central banks. Prevailing rates are: Canada 2.25%; England 2%; Japan 0.1%; European Central Bank 2.5%; Federal Reserve 0.25%; Swiss National Bank 1%,; and RB Australia 4.25%. RBNZ is, therefore, out on a limb. The historical record indicates that few New Zealand recessions are short. This one is big and global. It began in the US in December 2007; it will be longer than the recessions beginning in November 1973 and July 1981. They were 16 months. This recession will be the greatest since August 1929. It is already palpable in closing shops and restaurants, falling house prices, builders desperate for work, and a cultural shift towards thrift. Admittedly, The Reserve Bank has to sooth fears. It has introduced retail deposit and foreign funder guarantees. It liberalised rules on collateral. Its path is very similar to the Fed, or RB Australia. The Bank has creditably played its part in maintaining capital, liquidity and confidence. Confidence is important. Governors of the Reserve Bank cannot talk the economy down when inflationary pressure is contracting. Nevertheless, there is a difference with other central banks. Our bank says "she'll be right". Near-panic reigns in G7. The British Telegraph recently reported that the BOE is working on radical plans to inject cash directly into the economy - "the nuclear option"; to be used only when interest rates approach zero. The Bank has cut rates to 2%, their lowest since 1951, and warned that "it was unlikely that a normal volume of bank-lending would be restored without further measures". The BOE may be considering direct purchase of assets, and expanding its balance sheets to pump cash into banks. It could be the first time since the 1970s that the Bank of England has targeted the volume of cash in the economy, by using its balance sheet, rather than the price of money through interest rates. The Telegraph explains that the bank would print money by buying securities through its Ways and Means account. The ECB signaled it might use "quantitive easing" (QE) for the first time ever. I imagine my monetary economics lecturers squirming when I hear the term. They were of the Austrian school, for Hayek had left an imprint in neo-classical economics at LSE. QE was a Japanese invention in its losing battle with deflation. The USA and France are undeterred although QE did not work in Japan. QE is another word for printing money. The ECB supremo Trichet admitted "We are supplying liquidity on an unlimited basis." This may be called legerdemain as the Maastricht Treaty prohibits the ECB from injecting stimulus by purchasing the government debt of the euro zone's fifteen states debt "“ a method known as "monetizing the deficit", or more crudely as "printing money". But it can achieve the same effect, the Telegraph observes, by mopping up sovereign debt, mortgage securities, or even company debt on the open market, as the Fed has already begun to do. At the moment the ECB accepts some of these assets as collateral in exchange for loans, but it has not yet hit the atomic button by buying them outright with its own freshly-minted fiat money. In September, the ECB predicted an economic rebound in 2009 but it has dramatically reversed that forecast since to a brutal contraction of a fall of 2.7% in early 2009. Sweden's Riksbank startled markets by a cut of 175 basis points to 2%, motivated by a collapse in Volvo sales and their banking sectors' over-exposure to property in Eastern Europe. The alarm evident in banking activity is mirrored by many governments adopting urgent stimulus packages. Many aim to simply boost spending: the Australians have given money to superannuants and have encouraged them to spend it. Economists may have to suppress a faint smile when reading a recent speech by the Deputy Governor of the RBA where he forthrightly explains "the paradox of thrift" (if everyone saves the economy suffers) and his exhortations to spend. He warns that if the public saves (to reduce household debt) the public sector must increase spending. One cannot keep track of every stimulus package. Perhaps the US will provide the biggest ultimately as the Democrats are anxious to help out with mortgage payments, but we must await President Obama's inauguration. The UK and Germany are vigorously active. France has given €1 bn in loans to the French car industry, and has committed itself to building 100,000 new homes to keep the construction industry active. Japan has passed an Emergency Package of Y5 trillion to encourage spending as an antidote to "a harsh storm seen only once in 100 years." Taiwan has given everyone shopping vouchers. China has competed with a US$585 bn package to boost spending on infrastructure. The global problem is deflation. Prices, demand, credit are all in decline. The IMF has changed its forecast for global economic growth in 2009 from 3.75% to 2.2%. Expect another downward revision. The G7 is in recession. If the world is in recession, how can New Zealand growth resume in mid-2009? I believe our economy will struggle with a contraction of credit, a drain of income to offshore creditors, falling export receipts, massive increases in import costs, a decline in asset prices (especially housing), a sluggish stock market, falling internal demand, and an inability of the authorities to stimulate the economy. *Neville Bennett is a long-time Senior Lecturer in History at the University of Canterbury, where he has taught since 1971. His focus is economic history and markets. He is also a columnist for the NBR where a version of this item first appeared.
85 Comments
Best we all go down
Best we all go down to The Fine Wine Company on Riccarton Ave's. receivership sale, and hunker down.
Cheers, Neville.
Bollard's statements about the recession
Bollard's statements about the recession (particularly the comment about data being revised to the point that 'we may not even have had one') are looking more and more threadbare - I see some economist are already forecasting that Q4 of 2008 was a bust with GDP shrinkage of -0.6% (I think it is nearly impossible for it to be any better than Q3). Given the meltdown in the dairy payout, slumping manaufacturing, a tourism industry that is about to fall off the cliff and surging unemployment, which will keep the consumer from spending, there is every possibility that all 4 quarters of 2009 will be negative as well. I really think Bollard deserves to be challenged on his forecasts - there appears to be far too much deference from the establishment on his pronouncements (how about giving him some flack at the post RBNZ IR change press conference?). People making investment decisions on what he has predicted are likely to make expensive wrong calls.
Neville, have enjoyed your articles
Neville,
have enjoyed your articles over the course of 2008. The internet has surely changed the stranglehold the Mainstream Media had on news distribution and the spin placed on it.
Thanks for your articles. Much appreciated
Regards,
Gibber
More on dairy - Agrifax
More on dairy - Agrifax reckon Fonterra will come in at $5.15:
http://www.nzx.com/markets/NZSX/NZX/announcements/4802849
Fonterra is full of Sh*t
Fonterra is full of Sh*t $5.15 more like $3.50-$4.00 they have over $7 billion of debt!
Their shares are worthless bits of paper they have failed.
Another good article, Neville. Do
Another good article, Neville. Do you see parallells with NZ in late 1966? The wool price crash fed through the economy and in early 1967 the first real recession since the war kicked in. It took 3+ years for NZ to recover. Wool was 30+% of exports prior to 1966 and badly affected by the global slowdown. This was also largely due to US problems, which then were primarily due to the war in Vietnam. Dairy now is 20+% of exports, but the payout drop will have a similarly big effect. Deja vu all over again? Have a good Xmas everyone.
"Another good article, Neville." Yes
"Another good article, Neville."
Yes Great to se someone with a string of leters after his name and still retain basic common sense
have Enjoyed all of your posts...
Merry Christmas
Steps
Come on folks we have
Come on folks we have not been reduced to such wimpering servants that we now read such things below that were contained in Nevilles article and not even question them now using their bogus created credit to now directly buy up the Realsector when it was the overlending of more of their non backed electronically created credit than the Realsector could ever collectively repay that pushed it into bankruptcy in the first place. The second disgusting point that everyone would appear not have a problem with, is that this is a private conglomerate we are talking about, an organised crime gang of mamoth proportions that deserve to have their assets seized and returned to the masses from who they stole them, most definitely not have us stand by and allow them to buy directly with there couterfeit currency at cents on the dollar the assets at shattered prices compared to what the Realsector was recently loaned at compounding interest to buy them. They are at the same time now reducing the availability of Money/credit to the Realsector, it is sick and disgusting;
Quotes from article-
"The BOE may be considering direct purchase of assets, and expanding its balance sheets to pump cash into banks. It could be the first time since the 1970s that the Bank of England has targeted the volume of cash in the economy, by using its balance sheet, rather than the price of money through interest rates. The Telegraph explains that the bank would print money by buying securities through its Ways and Means account."
"QE is another word for printing money. The ECB supremo Trichet admitted "We are supplying liquidity on an unlimited basis." This may be called legerdemain as the Maastricht Treaty prohibits the ECB from injecting stimulus by purchasing the government debt of the euro zone's fifteen states debt "“ a method known as "monetizing the deficit", or more crudely as "printing money"."
"But it can achieve the same effect, the Telegraph observes, by mopping up sovereign debt, mortgage securities, or even company debt on the open market, as the Fed has already begun to do. At the moment the ECB accepts some of these assets as collateral in exchange for loans, but it has not yet hit the atomic button by buying them outright with its own freshly-minted fiat money."
END
Those with a true interest in international monetary mechanism's I am sure will find the very latest article from one of the very best nothing but rivetting;
http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/zero_percent_t-bills.php
Remember every non backed electronically created dollar that enters the system further devalues what is already in existance.
There is a myth that
There is a myth that somehow New Zealand will weather out this crisis. But the housing bubble here is only beginning to surface. Typically, our house prices echo US trends, with a 12-16 month time lag. Check this presentation out to see how the US housing/credit crisis will get worse: http://www.designs.valueinvestorinsight.com/bonus/pdf/T2_Housing_Analysi...
Although it's true we don't have the same mortgage debt structuring such as the "Alt-A" and "Option ARM" catastrophe found in America, our national debt is mostly being held in 90 day securities, with those same international bankers that financed this scenario. Every 90 days New Zealand has to rollover the debt at increasingly higher interest. This debt is payable in US dollars and Yen, so Bollard has to keep the $NZ strong against those currencies. This greatly restricts his ability to reduce our OCR to match rates cuts elsewhere in the world. Money traders know this and continue to use our currency paired against USD and YEN to manipulate our money supply in what is known as "the carry trade".
While all this is going on our GDP will continue to shrink. Tourism and Agriculture, our two main money generators will tank during this depression. And most of the new jobs created from 2000 - 2007 were those in construction and the finance service sector. It will be a grim decade indeed.
HSBC become one of the
HSBC become one of the first organizations to predict overall global GDP to shrink in 2009 (the worst global performance since 1947):
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/3982570...
Plenty more economists/forecasters will be scrambling to come to this particular party methinks.
It seems not many NZers
It seems not many NZers visit this web-site. Instead of spending days moaning in front of screen, and ocassionally tearing hairs off, they enjoy going out , spending money in shopping malls,(even some ATMs are out of cash)...outrageous
"I imagine my monetary economics
"I imagine my monetary economics lecturers squirming when I hear the term. They were of the Austrian school, for Hayek had left an imprint in neo-classical economics at LSE."
I understand that Austrians believe that the Great Depression was caused by monetary inflation. The rapid expansion in the money supply made the bust inevitable.
For those that are interested in the Austrian view check out www.mises.org and listen to some of the MP3 on the Great depression.
Friedman and the Monetarists believe the Depression was not caused by the preceding monetary inflation. Instead, they believe the Fed did not supply enough money before and during the Depression. Monetarists believe that any recession could have been avoided had more money been pumped into the system.
The Keynesians believe that it is an issue of confidence. http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north193.html
I did not think one could be an Austrian and a Monetarist?
If the Austrians are correct all this intervention is going to make things much worse.
I lean towards the Austrian view.
Mum of Eight, I am
Mum of Eight,
I am with you, the maths and the science. That would leave the spectrum of economists from Keynesians to Monetarists supporting a failed academic discipline that lacks integrity.
The Lewrockwell article is good especially since it was written in 2003. The following links support your assertion that government and central bank intervention are going to make things much worse. The top ranked economists - and their politicial masters - are the problem, not the providers of a solution:
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/703-Uh-Oh.....-Monetary-Flat...
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/618-Congress-What-Bernanke-a...
recession is a piece of
recession is a piece of cake if you have been drawing a university salary for 37 years.you would have to have been insulated from at least three recessions in that time.you need a sense of detachment to comment intelligently but that is easy after the event,as he is still working for salary then he never saw it coming either!
alan stewart is playing the
alan stewart is playing the man and not the ball. for the record i retired two years ago. I presume alan thinks if i was any good i would have made money. I happened to get satisfaction from teaching..it was my vocation
as for not seeing it coming if you go to articles posted here in JULY 2007 you will see i predicted a recession imminently
i also gave a well attented lecture in Wellington in August 2007. Someone asked what was my advice. my response was "SELL EVERYTHING"
New Zealand needs to de-couple
New Zealand needs to de-couple from the US economy as much as possible and concentrate on building closer relationships with what appears to be a strengthening Asian alliance. The more we can reduce our debt in US dollars, the better. I would even advocate canceling tax cuts to households. It might also be a good time to discuss a common currency between Australia and NZ and replace our dollar in favour of an ANZAC dollar.
Common sense dictates that all of these US dollars, Euros and Pounds being printed will have to be absorbed back in the form of higher interest rates and higher taxes. Given the size of the injection, this could take a decade or more to work out. We need to picture what that world will look like and position our economy to come out of the gate first. This means sharper pain over the short haul, but will attract relationships with those economies that emerge from the dust early. I will be glad if we avoid the hyper-inflation I fear will plague other OECD countries.
Andrew Ferrier and the Fonterra Board made the right moves at the wrong time, and read the curve wrong. Things would have been bad enough were it not for Sanlu. Fonterra was foolish for assuming counter-party risk in a market they proved incredibly ignorant about. The cap on damage payments to victims is already sparking outrage in China. Trials have just begun for dairy managers in China and Sanlu's manager is the first in the docks. The fallout from this venture could bankrupt our dairy industry. If I were in government I would begin to think about nationalizing our industry.
Good thinking Doug, I tend
Good thinking Doug, I tend to think Fonterra will need a baleout if liabilities go beyond Sanlu. However I think the government would be better picking up the peices in a couple of years, rather than trying to catch the falling sword. Also, it's really hard to "de-couple" from debt, that suckers with us for a while, we just need to manage it.
Lets nationalise Fontera so it
Lets nationalise Fontera so it can be thrown in the kitty with the remainder of our vital infrastructure - electricity, water - when in the new year we are going to be forced by our foreign financiers to once agian sell what little we have left to their subsidiary multinational corporations to pay down our exponentially exploding current account balance/net debt that we are now unable to meet the repayments on.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sundaystartimes/4800875a6871.html
If we dont liedown as we did previously in 1961 and 1984 they will devalue our dollar into obliteration just as they did with Zimbabwe when they refused to succumb to the same threats when they cottoned on that the privately owned central banking conglomerate had set them up.
Lets just surrender and give them a monopoly on all of our food, water, shelter in order that all that are not co-operatives of our masters are mere servants in what is suposedly their home of equal opportunity.
Or we could join the fight back against the private bankers and reinstate the successful alternatives of debt free based public monetary systems that have been used in the past. Show some courage enter the struggle while there still exists a few nations of strength that have continued to resist the private banker organised crime gang and their massive commercial pyramid scam.
We have the massive advantage of currently being able to self sustain our population. I say currently because the Powers That Be on the committees within the UN, that plan just what population each nation should maintain, have in mind a population of 20 million for NZ, all in the interest of free market growth of course.
Neville Says: "alan stewart is
Neville Says:
"alan stewart is playing the man and not the ball. for the record i retired two years ago. I presume alan thinks if i was any good i would have made money. I happened to get satisfaction from teaching..it was my vocation
as for not seeing it coming if you go to articles posted here in JULY 2007 you will see i predicted a recession imminently"
Nevile, Totally independent of you or any other commentators,( We have only been on this site for a few months ago) we saw fundamental the writing on the wall late 2006, confirmed our call Feb March 2007 and put a hold on projects, battened down that hatches.
Why? because like you Im a great believer in history repeats..history is a crystal ball.
It didnt take a string of degrees to work it out, just a little common sence and a lack of greed.
"for the record i retired two years ago"
Rubbish...retirement is DOING what u want to...not doing anything...one dies.
And History, you cant retire from that...its an addiction far greater than heroin, smoking and alcohol all rounded into one.
Iain Parker is correct in
Iain Parker is correct in calling for the nationalization of Fonterra, as unlikely as that will be, unless there is a farmer revolt. The Fonterra Board is indenturing the Kiwi farmer to reduce their clout in the corporation. In so doing, our main export industry will soon be under the control of foreign bankers and shareholders. Allan Bollard will do well to maintain as strong a New Zealand dollar as possible and resist calls from the G20 to do our bit to loosen the money supply. Our economy needs to diversify or find a niche in the world economy. Debt reduction, a strong dollar, and an investment in education are the key to coming out strong at the end of this depression. Key would do well to study the New Brunswick experience in Canada. Brian McKenna took a resource economy and transferred it into an IT powerhouse during the 1970 recession.
Iain, I'm curious about a
Iain, I'm curious about a statement you made in your last post.
"...I say currently because the Powers That Be on the committees within the UN, that plan just what population each nation should maintain, have in mind a population of 20 million for NZ, all in the interest of free market growth of course...."
Do you have any reference to back up this claim ?
Thanks Neville. Have read all
Thanks Neville. Have read all your articles and suggest others read your older entries...You write in a easy way to understand , pleased to state we did with our excess assets, property, debt what you suggested....What goes up must come down...
I agree, Neville has called
I agree, Neville has called it pretty well over the last few years (one of the few), and I always look forward to his articles. It's great to have someone writing who has no strings attached. We sold up assets and paid down all debt a few years ago.
For those of you who
For those of you who like your bad news of the worldwide debt crisis delivered on the lighter side, go to this website and watch the Silly Money videos, very up to date and although the news is alarming it is told in a hilarious way with with same brilliant takes off of world leaders and other major players;
http://www.thedossier.ukonline.co.uk/video_drugsmoney.htm
Doug - I wasn't calling
Doug - I wasn't calling for the nationalisation of Fonterra. I was commenting tongue in cheek in reply to a few others who had.
SimonD - I present you the information below to study at your leisure;
http://www.un.org/esa/population/cpd/aboutcom.htm
http://www.afppd.org/information/april_08.html
http://www.afppd.org/information/july_08.html
http://www.un.org/spanish/esa/population/C2001English.pdf
I am busy scouring my collected reference index to track down where I read that one of the major population planning agencies believe NZ could take a population of 20 million. As alarming as it sounds to anyone currently living here, it is not inconcievable that, that is what they would have planned for us when you consider the population of England 60 mil, Japan 127 mil or the 1.3 million in the Gazza Strip which is the size of Waiheke Island.
SimonD- finally tracked it down,
SimonD- finally tracked it down, the figures were from a report by Transurban
http://www.transurban.co.nz/frameprofile.html
report;
http://www.transurban.co.nz/pubgrowth.html
In the longer term, major external migrationary pressures on New Zealand must be assumed in the context of global population growth and distribution. If today's world population of 6 billion was evenly spread over world habitability zones with no significant limitations for extensive habitation(Doxiadis & Papaioannou:1974, New Zealand would theoretically have a population of 40 million. Further, in about 100 years time, the world's population is likely to double. At this time, ecumenopolis (global settlement) will be emerging which, together with associated open land, will cover the entire habitable area of the world as a continuous inter-connected urban system (Doxiadis & Papaioannou:1974). In this global context, New Zealanders' current share of the world's habitable land resources is inequitable and, in the future, likely to be untenable. New Zealand has the choice of planning for future inevitable migration in a sustainable manner.
Over the last 100 years, New Zealand's average annual increase in population was 1.7 %. Assuming this rate of growth could be sustained in the future, New Zealand could have a population of 20 million in 100 years time. Assuming a continuation of past trends of population concentration, at least 60% of these people are likely to be in Northland/Auckland/Waikato/Bay of Plenty, in which case this urban region could be home to 12 million people.
Thanks Iain for providing some
Thanks Iain for providing some references. The reason why I asked is that a number of your posts have a "conspiracy theory" tone to them and I wanted see whether there was substance in this particular claim.
Unfortunately the references that you've provided don't really back up your claim that the "..Powers That Be on the committees within the UN, that plan just what population each nation should maintain, have in mind a population of 20 million for NZ, all in the interest of free market growth of course"¦."
The information you've quoted comes from an article in Planning Quarterly magazine provided by a NZ planning consultancy (Barry Rae & Sonia Williams). I fail to see the connection between the people in this consultancy who wrote this article and the United Nations (re: "Powers That Be on the committees within the UN"). Are Barry Rae and Sonia Anderson connected with NZ's parliamentary representative on the AFPPD (Naomi Williams) and were the contents of this article up for discussion at any recent meetings of the AFPPD ?
If so I will stand to be corrected but I have to assume not. For what it's worth I am starting to consider the ideas of publically financed money in much more detail because of yours and others posts on this forum. But I really think you could reach alot more people if you toned down the conspiracy theories a bit and let the facts speak for themselves.
SimonD
SimonD - It is amazing
SimonD - It is amazing how many people these days right off anyone who begins to investigate outside the square of what is presented in the mainstream education or governance. Instantly accusing people with investigative minds of being "Conspiracy Theorists" like they are some kind of instant lepers. I find this is amazing when anyone who has studied enough of history knows that recorded human history is chapter after chapter of the few conspiring to exploit the many by means of slavery proper or financial trickery. Slavery proper still exists in more countries of the world today than those it doesn't. If it were not for a few people remaining inquisitively vigilant against the ever present allure of the proceeds of corruption or slavery many people would not have the little freedom they have today.
So if a number of coincidences in my life have led me to be inquisitive of commercial pyramid scams that see a few exploit the many by nothing but trickery, it is something I am extremely proud of, not the least bit embarrassed of. In-fact as it unfolds by the day, I am becoming less embarrassed by the day.
Simon you have dismissed the population forecasts of Transurban as the gibbering of a two bob small-time Kiwi operator. But, with respect, can I please encourage you to look deeper at the profiles and foreign institutes attended when looking at the academic advisory institutes that advise our government. You will soon realise just how many of them are foreigners from foreign institutes or Kiwis trained in foreign institutes. If you do not for a second stop and consider that in a country of our size in a world ruled by big money, that big money do not infiltrate the advisory institutes of small governments or even infiltrate small governments themselves to steal the resources and efforts of the peoples of small nations, then you are naive.
I never anymore dismiss most anything I hear or read outright without a little deeper investigation and if a little deeper investigation is given to the modern international monetary mechanisms of the last 300 years, you have rocks in your head, especially with recent events, if you don't think it is just not adding up.
So with all due respect I believe a few more need to pull their heads out of the sand, not me put mine back in.
Good on you Iain, Economic
Good on you Iain,
Economic conditions will force a much larger population to New Zealand over the coming decade, by many means.
It is far more economic for people to come to the food source than ship it all the way to them.
A guestimate for my argument goes along the lines of replacing each dairy cow with 5 persons (a similar live weight of mammal). Say 4 million dairy cow replaced with 20 million people.
26m people in New Zealand
New Zealand agricultural exports get slashed with
-increased domestic demand,
-area shrinkage due to human footprint,
-reducing production due to volitiale weather events
-reducing production due to environmentaly unsastainable agricultural intensivication methods.
I'm not sure I can imagine a NZ like it, but we will have to manage it.
I generally apply the philsophical
I generally apply the philsophical principles of Occam's Razor when it comes to this sort of thing. You will need a lot more evidence to convince me than, a published article in a planning magazine, the fact that the authors are widely travelled and the fact that the AFPP had a discussion on population. Connecting all this up together and coming up with a statement like the "UN has plans for 26 million people in NZ" is cognitive dissonance.
I don't dismiss your ideas in total Iain, your points about the current debt based fiat monetary system have caused me to indulge in considerable reading and I have severe concerns about how the system is currently constructed. Let's focus on this much more important subject and shelve the 26 million population argument for another day.
Nationalisation...always happens in a major
Nationalisation...always happens in a major ression/downturn...
Look at the States , England, Even NZ in previous downturns
And I dont think NZ is going to be immune this time around either.
Fonterra? yes could very well be, a company that issues bonds to maintain operations?? thats not good...stock piles that have nowhere to stock pile..not good. A few of the chips in the armour ? But not yet.
If things get real bad I would not be surprised at power companies also on the table well down the line.
Fonterra would be Ok if
Fonterra would be Ok if it hadn't paid out more than it could afford to farmers in the last few years.
It paid out more than it could afford and went on a debt binge. This resulted in unsuitable land, with high cost structure, being converted to dairy along with substantial environmental damage. I suspect they have already got access to govt funds. So now we the taxpayers are going to bail out the dairy industry. They are already a monopoly in practice if not theory, They are owned by their suppliers and its their problem and it needs to stay there, unless we want to have the most expensive milk in the world while our dairy farmers enjoy new cars and holidays overseas. The Govt cannot fix this problem and its not the taxpayer problem. Its belongs to the dairy industry, the market signals where about capital gains and it was a giant bubble on the land and a giant Ponzi scheme at Fonterra. The risks where taken by individuals and at the end of the day the responsibility needs to stay there.
Correct, any association with the
Correct, any association with the NZ govt and Fonterra will flag acusations of subsidies and support to "free trading" farmers in NZ. However, the govt. needs to help if the co-op, and its farmers are not to be lost to the overseas powers that bankrolled the bubble in the first place.
What is the solution? Surely the Govt. must organise for the failure of one of the countries major institutions, and prepare its people for future reductions of income streams, and devalue of assets. The alternative is......hang on, lets print more money for abit while we think of a better idea, yeah lets do that.
Could always restrict overseas ownership
Could always restrict overseas ownership of property..
you will know when the
you will know when the dairy industry is in trouble when their factories start to burn down.last time there was a huge stockpile of milk powder there was a few lost.even Te Rapa in hamilton.market forces are so powerful they cause spontaneous combustion to balance market losses with insurance payouts.
SimonD - Agreed about the
SimonD - Agreed about the bigger issue, I will still however in the ever present battle to keep ones credibility intact continue my search for the exact article I read from the UN re NZ population. I stumbled across it a while back whilst looking for info in a debate I was having with Mike Moore.
I made a mistake in my last posting by saying that it is naive to think that the monetary elements have infiltrated governments and advisory institutions of small nations, the mistake was that it is naive to think they have not infiltrated governments of nations large and small. US, England, Russia, China, India none have been immune.
Check out this, go to below website then toggle down to - The Looting Of Russia.
http://www.thedossier.ukonline.co.uk/video_drugsmoney.htm
SimonD - Maybe a couple of years back I would have gone along with your advice of putting it in language that does not scare the horses. But that time is over because what once sounded incomprehensible is happening in front of our very eyes and if more people would have had the courage to tell it how they knew it was the masses would not be sleepwalking into lack of choices they face today. Some people have to be brave enough to call it before it happens. That's where you get credibility, not joining the I told you soh's. I have no hesitation in calling it before it happens, because if you study enough of economic history you will soon learn it is not any great prophetic feat to forecast what repeats over and over for the same reasons, because of the same elements.
I have called it as I have seen it for many years now. I have suffered ridicule, but with recent events unfolding the reward for sticking to my convictions has come with the support gained from those that now acknowledge I called it right.
Ha Dean, last time the
Ha Dean, last time the rural economy was in this much poo's the reverse is what got us out of it, NZ productive real estate (farms) where able to be purcheased by overseas individuals. Late eighties I think Jim Bodger did it.? Anyway provided a global market for our debt stressed assets, liquidity was injected at a critical point, unviable farms and farmers were able to exit the industry with something.
Farms still were able to retain their low ebit for large capital gains over most of the following couple of decades. Until now.
Currently dairy does not have the oppertuity of an "out" as every other commodity has boomed and busted, (and recovered to a point) lamb, beef, venison, arable, forestry.
Alternative land use is not an economic alternative. US and EU govt. will hold prices up for a short while as they rebuild their "intervention inventories" to help smooth supply/demand. After which responce to lack of market demand could be interesting. $3something payout for next year? Rubbish?
Probably think so after reading this heroic stuff, it's going to be ok.....
http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/not-all-grim-exporters-2432777
F**k I'm thick.....don't know why I worry...
Steve's link to TVNz is
Steve's link to TVNz is brilliant...we are told luxury goods will feel the pinch but primary producers will be ok because of long term contracts. The spokeperson ought to look to the 1930's wheb Brazil was burning coffee and Australia dumped wheat.
Meanwhile ask MT Gibson about contracts. It had terrific contracts to supply China with iron ore (a primary product if there is one) but the buyers reneged once the spot price fell well under the contract price. undercutting is happening all over the place as some sellers have increased volumes released on the spot market e.g. BHP on spot iron ore market
once demand falls, suppliers are going to get screwed and prices will inevitably fall. That usually holds good, even in oligopoly where a few suppliers get together to maintain price through limiting output [OPEC or stevenson Scheme (tin).] because one supplier sells more than agreed.
commodites are falling very quickly at present, several went down by more than 10% in December...oil, iron, coal, aluminium
Iain Parker Says: "SimonD -
Iain Parker Says:
"SimonD - Maybe a couple of years back I would have gone along with your advice of putting it in language that does not scare the horses. But that time is over because what once sounded incomprehensible is happening in front of our very eyes and if more people would have had the courage to tell it how they knew it was the masses would not be sleepwalking into lack of choices they face today. Some people have to be brave enough to call it before it happens. That's where you get credibility, not joining the I told you soh's. I have no hesitation in calling it before it happens, because if you study enough of economic history you will soon learn it is not any great prophetic feat to forecast what repeats over and over for the same reasons, because of the same elements.
I have called it as I have seen it for many years now. I have suffered ridicule, but with recent events unfolding the reward for sticking to my convictions has come with the support gained from those that now acknowledge I called it right."
U guys are caught between the ocean and deep blue sea...
If u report your predictions too soon and too strong, you get put beside the homeless guy with the sandwich board "The World Ends Tomorrow"
So u guys have to tone it RIGHT down, which then means it is published in obscure columns ,if at at all, and the very few that read it either right it off or accuse of creating a recession by -ve comments and get blamed when everything starts hitting the fan.
BUT there are a few of us, read a snippet here another there, look at history, a few more hints around the place are reported...it not a matter of being right that ids important but that a very few of us actually take notice. What you could be accused of is creating carpet baggers from those who take notice.
For the last 3 yrs I have been doing the same, over morning tea discussions, and been treated as an idiot.....even now I see we are only at the start, and things are going to get drastically worse..and still looked on with disbelief.
My complaints one ppl like you on how you have stood up and how you ppl have stood up.
It was no spokesperson, but
It was no spokesperson, but the leader!
"Export New Zealand chairman Ken Stevens says local exporters should be relatively well placed"
He made the New Years honors list last year,
"Export Year Business Champion Ken Stevens was made a Distinguished Companion of the New Zealand Order of Merit in the New Year Honours list."
He should know........
The way i see it,
The way i see it, Debt has to be destroyed.The Govt going on a spending spree to keep us out of recession creates more debt and more to be destroyed. We already have a hidden problem, the entitlement commitments that we have promised. We will have trouble keeping these as costs blow out in ACC,health,pensions, Ed,student loans,infrastructure and so on. If we keep on the present path then we must at some stage destroy our currency.
The obvious happening in the past was the selling of assets offshore, now %7.6 of our %8.6 deficit is going offshore in the form of dividends and interest. We now will transfer even more of our wealth offshore. Perhaps we may get a good price for Landcorp, I see they paid $20 mill for a hill country sheep farm in Hawkes bay last year and now the head honcho called Kelly is listed as one of the most influential people in NZ, Key should fire him and remove the board.
The problem in Dairy as Ive said before is debt, it has to be destroyed, about 30 billion of it is above our productions capacity to service.
This from the USA milk
This from the USA milk producers . last weeks update
CHEESE MARKET COMMENTS: Prices for block cheese on the CME this week gave a last heave, and
dropped to the CCC support level. Barrels were close. Block prices have now fallen 14 straight trading days, a
total drop of $.6575 per lb. since December 9th. Dairy Market News reports that buyers are simply not willing to
carry inventory over the year end, so stocks are building at manufacturing plants' warehouses. There have been
no particular pieces of news to account for the drop to support. Cheese has joined nonfat dry milk at support
level, butter at just above support, and dry whey continuing to be sold below the cost of producing the product.
Somber news, indeed.
NONFAT POWDER COMMENTS: Product continues to move into warehouses leased by the Commodity
Credit Corporation. Some sales this week may have been made by other than California plants, but located in the
West. The total amount now owned by CCC represents a full month's worth of production. DMN reports that
buyer interest is moving steadily lower.
Fonterra is toast! Who is funding their present operation, I bet its you and me. This National Govt lacks the courage to do what it needs to, it lacks balls.
What happened in Russia is
What happened in Russia is a disgrace, Iain. The Russian people seem to get screwed over again and again in regular intervals.
Perhaps Putin might be getting in a bit of revenge; the oligarchs are in rather desperate straits at the moment, the noises I'm hearing is that Putin is loaning money to be paid back in a year in exchange for equity positions in their holding companies. (hahahaha - no chance of paying that back) The loans will keep on coming, the russian state stake in the oligarchs will increase and before you know it, Russia has just renationalised its manufacturing and resource industries.
Nominally the people will regain what they lost under Yeltsin in the 90's. We shall see.
Just how bad are things
Just how bad are things going to get for dairy? News here that the Westland co-op is actually asking for 45c/kg of money already paid out to farmers to actually be PAID BACK because the earlier estimates were too rosy:
http://www.agridata.co.nz/blog/
Note also the piece highlights the problems to tourism on the West coast, and the fact that debt worries are now rapidly mounting for dairy farmers.
Andrewj, If Chris Kelly is
Andrewj,
If Chris Kelly is so influential, then he is likely largely responsible for the success or failure of Landcorp's strategies. I read the Sunday Star article and concluded that it was his last chance to make a case for his record in charge before some massive asset losses and possibly also trading loses start showing up in Landcorp's accounts.
There are pertinent questions about Landcorp's accounts that the report's author should have asked, but doesn't appear to have.
Oh yes the "accounts" That
Oh yes the "accounts"
That man OVER THE LAST 10 Years claims to have had an AVERAGE return on funds of 20% PER YEAR. What legend, even Maddof couldn't claim to make that much!
Gee the rest of the farming community must feel pretty dumb getting returns of 0-5% p.a.
Oh hang on maybe he is adding the increase in value of his capital base (land) in as an income (return), opps. Is this quite right? So the only way to realise that return is too sell the whole lot up.?
Re-read the article, oh dear there are no dates for the which trading year is quoted, great reporting, reads well, gives warm fuzzies, short on detail, lets face it the guy is a vet (everybody loves animal doctors). How can he fib?
"Counter-balancing its criticism of Labour's emission trading legislation has been Landcorp's initiative in backing emerging green-energy technology"
I thought they are supposed to be farmers?
But they don't make any
But they don't make any money farming. From total assets of 1,728 million: For the year ended 30 June 2008 (the year of the dairy boom) their net profit before property sales and revaluations was $11 million.
That only because their revenue from milk was up by over $30 million - something which won't happen this year.
Then there is that 25,000 ha of former forest land - now privately owned - that Landcorp is one third of the way through converting, then to farm for 45 years. "With 6,000 ha already being farmed .... Landcorp was getting a better idea of how profitable the project would be." No answer is provided - instead the value of export receipts is given.
Landcorp's accounts have this to say on operating lease commitments: Under the terms of the land conversion and lease agreement, land parcels will be added to the lease each year and the lease commitment will increase over time.
Group operating lease commitments currently stand at $136 million.
Wow Peter, how come that
Wow Peter, how come that doesn't make it to print? How does Kelly get to say 20% when it's not even 1%. How hard is it to get the acurate landcorp picture, and why doesn't it get published? (Except on some blog about our recession being a peice of cake)???
SteveL last week I read
SteveL
last week I read somewhere that some body famous had said, that those who dont read newspapers are Uninformed and those that do are misinformed.
Im reading all this farming stuff , only PeterR appears to agree with me, yet it is so glaringly obvious.
Thankyou PeterR, Hope enough people read this blog to make a difference.
Steve, I have probably commented
Steve,
I have probably commented on agricultural journalism enough for the time being.
Landcorp's last 4 annual reports are here - why there are now only 4 available I am not sure:
http://www.landcorp.co.nz/business/annualreports.aspx
Some are art forms in obscuring farm profit from the casual observer/journalist.
That may partially answer your question about why there is no in depth media analysis of Landcorp performance, but in no way excuses the performance itself. That is partially the result of governance and political issues, but also includes the whole ponzi scheme that is built around NZ's agricultural production.
I got onto the stupidity
I got onto the stupidity of the forestry deal with landcorp, while I was in Sth America. A business acquaintance told me that the rumor was that the Kiwi trust or central north island partnership or who ever purchased the forestry and then did the deal with Lancorp, believed they had done one of the great deals of the century. They believed it was worth more than the NZ rail sale to Fay/Ritchwhite. On my return i was driving back to Taupo and the gate was open, I thought public land Im going for a drive, my companion a long time farm investor an I sat with our mouths open. Workers openly came up and talked about the money being wasted. You had to see it to believe it. I dont think I will ever see money being poured down a hole like it again. The ground was so poor that last year in the dry they had to stop milking in November. The land was in the process of having center pivot irrigator's installed and the runoff- straight into the Waikato river. Unfortunately our visit was terminated prematurely by the arrival of a security Guard who in formed us it was leading edge technology, top secret, and threw us out.
The forestry owners paid 400 million for the block and if landcorp are already paying 136 mill a year in lease, then by the time they finish the 60,000 acres, then, yes it looks like a great deal.
This isnt the first of landcorps great blunders they also purchased about a million Deer (hinds) at about $600+ a head up to about 2001, fenced thousands of acres at a cost of over $16 a meter and then deer prices collapsed to under$100 a head, max, and yet no losses on landcorps books.
One of the great blunders was the purchase of Edenam Station in Hawkes bay last year, at $20 million for a sheep farm this was the height of stupidity but for Landcorp just another day at the office.( the farm had been purchased by the seller 5 years earlier for about 5 million)
This Corporation has slowly being nationalising NZ at great cost and showing no signs of any form of intelligence what soever.
I must add that the mangers who operate the day to day running of landcorp farms are actually very good and of a high standard. pity the same level of management doesn't apply at board and senior management level.
Yep Landcorp has distorted farm
Yep Landcorp has distorted farm prices beyond the relm of reality, the purchase of Parakanapa Station in Gisborne was just as bad. Now vendors veiw this as a bench mark, and realestate agents see it as a stumbling block to future sales. While I may not agree with Landcorps practices, I can't say that I haven't benefited from them, so I guess I had better not moan too much.
I just wonder when it will all catch up?
Interesting that their farming operation
Interesting that their farming operation actualy had a OPERATING LOSS.
.
.
Do they publish any budgets
Do they publish any budgets and bussiness plans for the future?
Ok these guys aren't making any money out of farming, its a front for residential, and lifestyle subdivision,funded from farm sales, hefty revaluations of stock building and plant "and interesting stuff" like "protected land" creating $100m in asset? Are these the 9 properties that have been transfered into LHL?
Oh here it is $52m cash injection from govt plus $52m over the next few years who needs education and health when you have landcorp to blow public money at.
Quote:
"Protected Land
Landcorp's substantial rural property portfolio includes land of particular public significance. We have fully acknowledged this over the past year by working with the Government on a "protected land" policy and by forming Landcorp Holdings Limited. This subsidiary company has acquired nine perties previously intended for commercial sale by Landcorp but now held on behalf of the Crown for public policy purposes. The Government has agreed to pay full value for the properties which remain under Landcorp management in the meantime (with any capital gains to the benefit of the Crown). The Protected Land Agreement preserves the integrity of the State-Owned Enterprises model whereby Landcorp must operate as a commercial business, while it also preserves the land in public ownership until the Government decides otherwise. The agreement recognises the importance of directors' duties and
responsibilities under the Companies Act and our Statement of Corporate Intent. In consideration for the nine properties, Landcorp has received a capital injection of $52.2 million from the Crown and a diversion of dividends totalling $52.35 million over four years. Those diversions started with the 2006/07 dividend of $12.0 million. The agreement also includes a four-year moratorium, from September 2007, on any further property sales by Landcorp unless there are existing commitments to sell. This is in line with our strategic direction."
nice deal. "Transferred" to Landcorp holding Ltd, no to dissimilaer to Landcorp Estates Ltd quote
"As noted, subdivided land sales
were slower in the latest year due to the economic environment and the property market in general. Progress on current projects includes:"180 sections of 212 sold @ $54.1m, 24 sections of 65 @ $16.9m, 29 lifestye block coming on market.
Resource consent granted for 486 new sections
Still things were good enough to pay Lancorp Pastural Holdings (thats the loss making farm subsiduary) $5.1m on cash as a dividend on 31.7.08.
Handy for cash flow from developer to owner to hobby farm.
books do show a 20% p.a. growth over the last five years, but not much from farming, probably less than a quater of
it say 3%. The ballance comes from highly inflated valuations quote:("The growth reflected
a 17 per cent increase to $1.36 billion in the value of the company's land and buildings, due principally to the
surging value of dairy land as milksolids payouts soared to their highest levels for over 40 years. Total asset
growth
included also the revaluation of livestock, as discussed elsewhere in this report.") end quote, asset sales in the for of 13
farms or part farms for $26.2m, transferre of 9 properties to Govt. (LHL) for $100m. "and a further 11 farm areas are now
subject to conditional
sale agreements." Aslso previously mentioned sectyion sales.
Why don't they have pretty photos of new homes, and people living in them, waving, saying look at my new mortgage!
Thats what the government made their money out of, not cute fuzzy sheep and paddock of bassica, athough they have
good staff and farms.
This is the farming operation ("landcorp Pastural Ltd") a subsidiary.
Quote "The subsidiary recorded a
$4.4 million profit after tax for 2007/08. This reflected an
operating loss
of $1.3 million, which was more than offset by a revaluation of livestock of $6.6 million."
Oh Dear.
Oh and I like this
Oh and I like this bit;
"Landcorp takes the view that NZ IFRS is not an appropriate basis for internal financial management and for management reporting. The company's publicly presented financial statements will, from now on, include a presentation of Landcorp's results excluding the impact of NZ IFRS"
Can anyone enlighten me on NZ IFRS and its effect?
Here is one of it
Here is one of it effects....
"J Redeemable preference shares
Under the agreement concerning Landcorp Land Protected from Sale (the Agreement), Landcorp received a capital injection of
$52.2 million and issued redeemable preference shares in exchange. Additional redeemable preference shares are issued in lieu of
dividends diverted under the Agreement. NZ IFRS requires these shares to be classified as a liability. Management and Landcorp's funding banks
consider these to be equity."
Andrewj, The question is whose
Andrewj,
The question is whose currency gets trashed the most. Everyone is in the same ponzi scheme of debt based currency. look at the proud pound........the dollar has the advantage of being the reserve currency otherwise it would be getting the same treatment.
some serious belt tightening is coming in '09.
Raf http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/4125947/Willem-Buiter-war
Raf
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/4125947/Willem-Buiter-warns-of-massiv...
I recall a person sounding
I recall a person sounding amazingly similar to "Andrewj" bringing Landcorp "spin" to the attention of a National MP Craig Foss about 18 months ago. Obviously to no avail.
Also participated in several meetings with others at Treasury closer to 2 years ago expressing concern over Fonterra and the dairy industries obvious ignorance of basic production economics ("more profit from producing more" seems still to be the mantra) - also to no avail.
But if you think spin is confined to just one of the "primary industry"'s SOE's, compare Treasuries report on return to agriculture's spend on R&D, education and extension with the conclusions the woefully agriculturally illiterate journalists were fed.
(Treasury paper WP 06/01 "The role of R&D in productivity growth: the case of agriculture in New Zealand: 1927-2001).
May seem dated but the methodology used in analysing economic benefit within farming is, if anything, now even more distorted than then.
The current fiasco can be directly linked to this.
PeterR should be encouraged to reflect more on these issues?
Oh. And I agree wholeheartedly
Oh. And I agree wholeheartedly with Steve L.........
"How hard is it to get the acurate landcorp picture, and why doesn't it get published? (Except on some blog about our recession being a peice of cake)???
Except I would expand this to the accurate picture on most matters of importance when it comes to NZ's future?
This is crazy, I smell
This is crazy, I smell a rat, why would you jack up the percived farming results of an operation that recives most of its $ from development and asset sales and revaluations and the government?
Well I guess that makes it easier to justify the massive $136m p.a. rental of uneconomic land.
Who in landcorp will benefit from this, and how are they associated with the owners of the rented land?
How can landcorp and it's banks say this;
NZ IFRS requires these shares to be classified as a liability. Management and Landcorp's funding banks consider these to be equity.
Somebodys got it pretty wrong.
Deloitte or ANZ National & Westpac Banks, and Landcorp.?
Steve L Welcome aboard
Steve L
Welcome aboard
All, The figures for the
All,
The figures for the operating lease commitments of Landcorp in their 2008 annual report sum to $136 million. That will increase as more land is converted. We don't know the period the commitment covers. The information the annual report provides on operating lease commitments for 2008, 2007 is $million:
Within one year: 3.221, 2.434
One to two years: 3.461, 2.733
Two to five years: 11.363, 8.265
Later than five years: 117.565, 115.554
What we can say is that it appears that Landcorp has lease commitments for hundreds of millions of dollars spread over decades for land that possibly can't be farmed profitably and probably should have remained in pines.
Steve,
As to when the disaster will catch up with Landcorp, I think that the Sunday Star article is a response to pressure suggesting that it has started.
But Landcorp's issue with IFRS accounting is nothing compared to Fonterra's. Fonterra required an exemption to allow it to count farmers shares as equity when they are in fact debt under IFRS. This is why Fonterra is as Andrewj would describe it 'toast' as soon as their total milk supply starts reducing and more shares are redeemed than issued. That is a certainty once payout goes under $6.00 per Kg of Milk Solids.
Fonterra annual reports:
http://www.fonterra.com/wps/wcm/connect/fonterracom/fonterra.com/Our+Bus...
BJR,
I think you are hinting at systemic failures. I am thinking about that, but NZ is not ready to accept the concept yet. But within six months systemic failure will be mainstream thinking in agriculture and beyond.
I wonder if Bernard will
I wonder if Bernard will have a post on; Mega Trends - Creative accounting and valuations
Thanks 4 the feedback
Andrewj, They just have to
Andrewj, They just have to keep pulling the cows tits!
http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/02/business/02dairy.php
Whose tits are Fonterra pulling?
Incidently, I have spent the last 3 weeks in Sarawak, Borneo. It is interesting to note the signs of exported product stalling, China and Japan are big customers ....like most countries the majority are oblivious even though jobs in some sectors are being lost.
As an example of downturns... in the remote river town of Kapit, in the heart of Borneo (no road to Kapit,only the river and an airstrip) the locals are only getting 2RM ( ringgat) a kg for rubber where a few months ago it was 7.80 RM (Japan and China have cut back) . Palm oil is at a 21 year low.The timber, in particular plywood for export has slowed. Sarawak has vast oil and gas fields but the state only gets 5% back as the majority of the money from these resources goes into the Malaysian Federal pot (apart from money gained from service industries associated with the oil/gas industry)
The ripple effect from the worldwide economic downturn is insidiously creeping everywhere.
Hi All, May I suggest
Hi All,
May I suggest the systemic failure you suspect are one and the same with what is known as a strategic deficit. Strategic deficits refer to government departments being run at deliberate losses by management who's loyalties are not with the nation, but are with foreign lending institutes or ideologies of governments past.
What allows this to happen is the hiring and firing processes which were imposed upon us as part of the structural adjustment program the last time we were liquidated and refinanced in 1984. Our State Services Minister basically rubber stamps the appointments of department Ceo's on the recommendation of the State Services Commissioner or Assistant Commissioner or international executive recruitment agencies. Then under legislation of the State Service Sector Act 1988 the department Ceo's Act independently of ministers and hire and fire who they want in any position below them.
If you care to look it is alarming how many banker friendly Douglasites remain in positions of influence in this nation, all hired by a self feeding burgeoning bureaucracy that I allege it is hard not to conclude, run this nation at a strategic deficit to ensure that we will never be able to meet our repayments in order that our resources end up being sold dirt cheap to their slaveminded cohorts.
SimonD - it is a
SimonD - it is a disgrace what the international financial elite did to the wider population of Russia. Of course their elitist elements were as much apart of the commercial pyramid scam as any one else.
You better be careful in saying things like the Putin led administration after realising they were being ripped off blind could be justified in reappropriating the resources of Russia to benefit as many Russians as possible, not continuing to pay ransom to the worlds wealthiest slaveminded 1%, some dimwitted fools will start calling you Communist.
The fools have called me a Communist when I have stated I dont know how many times that I am all for someone who Labours twice as hard or produces twice as much being allowed to accumulate twice as much of the means of exchange.All I want to see is corruption removed from Capatalism and Democracy to have it work as it is being sold to us but currently not delivered.
Tonz, Good to see you
Tonz,
Good to see you back. I have some information I think you will find interesting following this thread from before you left:
http://www.interest.co.nz/ratesblog/index.php/2008/12/08/bollard-wants-b...
The information is good and I would make it broadly available but I can't because it is not available on the web. If you are interested I will need an Email address. You should be able to contact me via: peterr@wpgg.co.nz
Steve, <blockquote> It was no
Steve,
what and what not to say to eventually earn a gong from the establishment.
Thought you were offering someone an opportunity to suggest completion of the sentence.
He should know ................that "relatively"
He should know ................that "relatively" is a get out of jail free word.
That was the correct answer.
Its not really a fib, but it's not quite true either. Its an empty statment. Big on optomisim and short of reality.
Anyone know how Fonterra's latest
Anyone know how Fonterra's latest auction went last night?
$1954-$2106 av $2017 US$ a
$1954-$2106 av $2017 US$ a 9.3% drop since last auction
Thanks chas - not as
Thanks chas - not as bad as some feared but 9.3% drop in a month is still pretty chunky......
Some of you may find
Some of you may find this article on US dairy industry interesting. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/02/business/02dairy.html?_r=1&th&emc=th
Two things jumped out at me. The first was the US government purchase of milk solids and dumping them on the world market at a discount. The second was plans to cull cattle herds. Our family sold half their herd last month, while beef prices were reasonable. I am advising the same to my friends. Stock agents will be very busy in the coming months and those hoping for a better return for heavier cows at the end of summer may get burned.
Alcoa (aluminium smelting) slash 13,500
Alcoa (aluminium smelting) slash 13,500 jobs and production by 18%:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aVEsV0iAyfDw&refer=home
Its a race between the aluminium smelters to shut down production, and the workers at the Rio Tinto plant down in Southland must be feeling a little bit uneasy..........
Yep Doug, xtra cows are
Yep Doug, xtra cows are going to make a beef stockpile (which will effect other red meat prices), lack of animal feed demand from dairy and beef finishers and lack of profitability in the bio-fuel sector is going to make a mountain of corn, which will effect other grains.
I notice that according to
I notice that according to ANZ commodity prices in Dec recored their broadest fall in 20 years. Every commodity(except apples) fell. the index fell 7.4% in dec., fifth conseq fall. Pelts down 62% from Nov!. Alum 20% wool and dairy "more than 12%"' Wool is only 2% more than in 1986. (Another report says it is "unsaleable")
contrary to Dr Bollard the recession is deepening. I write research for some clients and have been struck by downturn in USA..amazing number of malls in trouble... UK retail poor with Woolworths closing, even Marks closing lots osf stores.
most significant single piece of news....US Treasury auctioned notes.. vast demand for ZERO interest... some investors sitting in bombshelters..want only to find a safe mattress.
light at end of tunnel? possibly in copper prices bottoming
This piece may have run its course but i would like to thank all contributers...I THINK THE BLOG HAS ESTABLISHED A PRIMA FACIE CASE FOR LOOKING AT FONTERRA AND LANDCORP MORE CRITICALLY..THANK
Yep, on a quick recap.
Yep, on a quick recap. I got a few things wrong up there, (like its NOT a $135m p.a. lease). And any numbers of others that may be incorrect or taken a little out of context.
Hew ever I think Landcorps perception to the public that it creates wealth at 20% p.a. out of New Zealand pastural livestock is a crock.
cock-a-hoop!
I guess my biggest gripe
I guess my biggest gripe is that people look at that 20%, go to the feild days, talk to the banker, emulate what they have seen. Capital value increases mask the economic productive truth. People see the big purchases of farms at massive cost, reads that Landcorp makes 20% on these purchases per year has done for the last 10 years. Bankers belive it, lend HUGE amounts of money, creating a debt that can only just be serviced, at low interest rates, at $6.90/kgms payout budgets, with easily available credit, and the promise of increasing demand from emerging ecomomies.
Is this truthful?
Can u guys put a
Can u guys put a date on your publication.
Doh! Just had a look
Doh!
Just had a look at the bottom.
Here is more of the
Here is more of the dairy
http://www.agridata.co.nz/blog/2009/01/14/when-the-white-gold-dries-up/
Don't know why I put it here, just thick I guess...
Here! You will receive the
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http://www.uggswear.com/ugg-bailey-button-c-24.html
http://www.uggswear.com/ugg-bailey-button-c-24.html