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'The government is not necessarily in a position to influence US FATCA', Revenue Minister Peter Dunne says

Posted in News

By Gareth Vaughan

Revenue Minister Peter Dunne says the government may not be able to exert any influence over the United States' Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), which has local banks spinning over what they say is the potential NZ$100 million cost of complying with it and its likely breach of New Zealand's Privacy Act.

Via a spokesman, Dunne told interest.co.nz that the government "would of course" be concerned about any regulation that would increase the cost of doing business in New Zealand.

"However, the government is not necessarily in a position to influence decisions made by a sovereign power about tax on funds flowing through its jurisdiction," Dunne said. "At this stage, the government is watching to see how the situation develops, and is communicating with taxpayers about the work it is doing on the issue."

As reported by interest.co.nz earlier this week, the New Zealand Bankers' Association, which represents all the country's banks, is working with its Australian, Canadian and British counterparts in an attempt to get the US government to alter proposals, due for introduction from January 1, 2013, it fears would cost the industry here NZ$100 million to comply with.

The Act targets tax dodgers by aiming to ensure there's no gap in the ability of the US government to determine the ownership of US assets held through foreign bank accounts. It will require financial institutions to collect information on US clients and relay it to the Internal Revenue Service  (IRS), the US taxman. They will have to withhold tax on customers who don't comply, and will be subject to a 30% withholding tax on their own income if they themselves don't comply.

This proposed new reporting and withholding regime is expected to impact current account opening processes, transaction processing systems and “know your customer” procedures utilised by non-US banks.

Tentacles with a long reach

Kirk Hope, executive director of the Financial Services Federation which represents finance companies and building societies, is worried about a "cascading effect" from FATCA down from the big banks to finance companies, fund managers, insurers and even into trusts, with the latter potentially considered captured for US tax purposes. Hope said there was potential for FATCA to force banks to breach both their duty of confidentiality to customers and the Privacy Act.

Deloitte tax partner Patrick McCalman said FATCA's tentacles could go a lot deeper than people probably realise.

"Clearly the big banks at the border realise they’re affected by it and from there there’s a knock on effect from the banks to finance companies and out to all New Zealanders," McCalman said. "Because what’s going to happen to be compliant under this Act, you’re going to have to search for people who might be US residents."

"So if you’ve got a US address, or a US birth place or standing instructions to remit stuff back to the US, you could be getting contacted by your bank and asked to prove that you’re not a US citizen. There is a wealth of compliance in there."

How trusts get caught in the net

As for trusts, McCalman said the issue was the proposed FATCA definition of a foreign financial institution. When an American deals with a foreign financial institution they have obligations and that draws those financial institutions into the FATCA regime. They, in turn, have to disclose whenever they deal with another foreign financial institution.

"Then the question is well what's a foreign financial institution? The question that's in there is are there some trusts that could be caught because the definition of a financial institution is quite broad," McCalman said. "It includes: 'As a substantial portion of its business (it) holds financial assets for the account of others.' Clearly a trust by its nature is something which holds assets for the account of others."

So unless the regulations aren't clarified, potentially a number of local private and family trusts will have to enter into agreements with the IRS. Another issue is that although New Zealand's common law background, like Australia's and Britain's, sees trusts as a relationship with property rather than as an entity, US law sees them as an entity.

"So there's a slight conflict of law about how people see these things which needs to be clarified," McCalman said.

Banks and finance companies preparing for FATCA need to think about how they're going to deal with trusts, he added. Two issues were how you could get small financial institutions or trusts deemed complaint so they don't have to go through the US registration process, and whether the final FATCA regulations will clarify the position of trusts.

Other countries may follow US lead

 FATCA has already been passed into law with the US Treasury now tasked with making regulations to implement it. McCalman said at this stage the US Treasury has issued notices outlining its thinking with FATCA, meaning the proposals aren't yet set in stone. 

"But if we treat the notices as indicative of where the regulations are going to go, then there is a fair bit of work in there," said McCalman.

Meanwhile, McCalman said Deloitte was advising clients not to prepare just for a US FATCA regime. India was considering adopting a similar tax act and there's speculation other countries, potentially including Germany which is facing big bills due to the European sovereign debt crisis, could also follow suit.

"We’re telling clients not to build a FATCA solution. Don’t ask people if they’re US residents, ask them where they’re resident," said McCalman. "So if someone else comes into it then you’ve already collected that data."

Dunne said there were currently no plans for New Zealand to introduce rules similar to FATCA. He said New Zealand already has tools in place to track the movements of residents' funds overseas, and the recent increase in the number tax information exchange agreements with countries that previously had strict tax secrecy laws - have been viewed as tax havens - has increased that ability.

'We can't tell the US to get stuffed'

People suggesting New Zealand ought to tell the US to "get stuffed" on FATCA were naive, McCalman said.

"We couldn’t tell them that on Sarbanes Oxley (an act that toughened auditing rules after the demise of Enron). We live in a global financial market and we’ve got to cooperate in that respect," said McCalman.

"You’ve got to remember these are the people that got the Swiss banks to hand over customer data."

That said, New Zealand authorities ought to try to synchronize the way local financial institutions report to the IRS with how they already report to the Inland Revenue Department. Banks here are also working to introduce anti-money laundering legislation and perhaps systems being put in place for this could also be synchronized with the US demands.

McCalman said no financial institution was going to get away with no FATCA related costs, rather it was a matter of trying to limit costs as much as possible.

"They (the government) need to say to the extent there are existing reporting structures how can we minimize the cost? Because to the extent banks or finance companies are spending money on this, then they’re not spending it on something else."

This article was first published in our email for paid subscribers this morning. See here for more details and to subscribe.

We welcome your help to improve our coverage of this issue. Any examples or experiences to relate? Any links to other news, data or research to shed more light on this? Any insight or views on what might happen next or what should happen next? Any errors to correct?

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74 Comments

i wouldnt worry about it -

i wouldnt worry about it - the yanks'll be well rooted before 2013

 FATCA has been law for a

 FATCA has been law for a long time now and various regulations on the implementation of the law open for input and comment for around 6 months.  Did anyone from NZ taken the time to lobby on the implementation of the regulations??  Its probably too late now anyway!!  Why has someone in NZ just figured this out??  I told my company's NZ office about FATCA in 2010 and they didn't take it seriously. I'm a Kiwi working is Asia and FATCA is a very serious issue!!!

BTW a well written and technically correct article.  Note it also relates to insurance companies (not just banks etc).  Potentially the way to get around it is not invest in US treasuries or stocks

 

Good on them.  Why isn't our

Good on them.  Why isn't our Governmente doing the same?  While they are about it, why don't they stop foreign owned companies transfer pricing their NZ profits overseas.  Eg the coments were that Adidas made no profit or paid no tax in NZ recently.

Adidas managed that? thought

Adidas managed that? thought our IRD was pretty hot on catching such dodgy dealings....and and lets see adidas name is mud with their rip off pricing and I bet some of the tax inspectors are rugby fans.....

Im pretty sure there was a big case not many years ago, Compaq? where they inflated the wholesale price of business PCs coming into NZ such that the NZ branch made no money....and hence no tax....I think IRD won that one....

regards

Simple solution. Ban US

Simple solution. Ban US citizens from holding an account in NZ institution

So, how many of you guys

So, how many of you guys cheered when Obama and the Democrats took over in 2008?  This is the entirely predictable result.   Best to hold out until 2012 when there is a chance that we might get some grown-ups in charge, if it's not too late.  

Most definately.....the

Most definately.....the choice was a senile matched with a half wit V Obama who promised to fix things.....wasnt a hard choice.....Obama has failed. he will fail for the rest of his term now the lunatics are back in chrage of congress....mind you The Democats are not that much better....

Grown ups? you mean Republicans? you have got to be kidding......the entire party are insane extremists.....

regards

Extremists?  In what way?

Extremists?  In what way?  Give examples and be specific, please. 

bozobit : Let's face it ,

bozobit : Let's face it , there was no way in hell that the world ( let alone America ) was ready for Sarah Palin as vice-President . John McCain was fine , but Sarah ...... lawdy lawdy , what was the GOP thinking ! ... they'd been better to go to " Monty Python "  and have selected Michael Palin as his running mate  ;  nudge nudge , wink wink , know wot I mean !

.... and truth be told , we'd all got thoroughly sick of George Dubbya ....

.. . although , with the benefit of hindsight , much of the shite that went down during his 8 years of presidency was actually outside of his control ....... the monumental cock-ups in the wars in the Balkans , the genocide in Rwanda , the ongoing middle-east crisis , all had a common theme of culpability : The U.N. / Nato / France / Britain ... poor old Bush , he had to clean up their messes , and yet got rubbished for having been a " war monger " !

And Joe Biden is an

And Joe Biden is an improvement?   Have a look at this clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Jf17Yo7hBM) and I defy anyone to find Sarah Palin saying anything this stupid.  You haven't heard this one?  Well, that's not really a surprise given the sorry state of the Obama-cheerleading media. 

As to Ms Palin, it's quite likely that she would be VP if it not were for the financial crisis that killed McCain's campaign. He he was ahead before it happened only a few weeks before the election and he acted like a befuddled old man.   Obama basically kept his mouth shut (smart) and came out as the cool, collected one.  So, he wins. 

You asked what he was thinking?  Well, he was thinking that he wanted to win the election. You simply can't win a US presidential election without a motivated base in your own party.  McCain was not trusted by his party and needed a conservative on the ticket to motivate that base. A conservative woman is a two-fer and was critical in motivating the suburban soccer mom vote.  In the end, she was clearly a net plus in electoral votes, and probably his only chance at winning.  In short, picking her was the best decision he could have made to improve his chances.  And that decision was working until the financial crisis changed the whole thing around (see above).   

And while, we are at it, it is simply a matter of fact, not opinion, that she had more executive experience than Obama, Biden, and McCain put together.  Between being a mayor, running the state oil commission, brokering major pipeline deals, and being a governor, a casual reading of her Wikipedia page will clearly show it isn't even close.    As to people who say she is an "idiot", I only have a few questions:  Have you met her?  How do you know?  If she were your daughter or sister, would you not be proud of how far she went from such a humble start?  How many governors do you have in your family? 

Joe Biden is proving beyond doubt that ANYONE can be Vice President, and office that has been famously described as not "worth a warm bucket of spit".  Unless, of course, you are Dick Cheney, which is another matter entirely!   

No,I don't think Sarah Palin should be or will be president.  As of now, she's not running and it looks less likely every day. So until she does some of these people obsessed with her really need to get a life!

As to W, we get sick of every president after eight years.  Well, except for Jimmy Carter who only took four years to wear out his welcome.  We'll see about Mr. Obama, but he's look more like Jimmy every day. 

Still not getting it eh!

Still not getting it eh! Still believe that elections are free and fair and that your vote counts, democracy not been hyjacked etc. If you believe that then you are part of the problems and in the way of real change.

The media decide who gets elected you all must know that, and the media in the USA in some cases are owned by companies such as GE etc who in tern get awarded massive govt contracts for war, energy etc. Have a look at what is going on the USA currently the GOP debates etc Ron Paul is winning the debates & the post debate polls, but coming up against the dirtiest tactics from all sides, it matters not, as even morons are catching on these days...

The president is a non entity at all times, congress & the senate have become unimportant, and now as in the case of Libya, bypassed for the sake of the "UN's credibility", so Obama said, and congress bypassed for the 13 man Super Congress to try cover sort the budget issues (but nah the concentration of power is fine, the constitution is being trashed in broad daylight, but nothing to see here). The USA is breaking down severly across the board, and in all honesty it is not likely that this can be changed now.

For example, Rick Perry it was predicted about 3-4 years ago that he would be the GOP nomination for President 2012, if not the next president, there was then the side show of him saying he would not run earlier this year, he is now running and the MSM outright putting their full support immediately behind him.

Big corporate rule the world, and they decide who you get to vote for...

When they gave Obama a nobel peace prize as soon as he became president, I knew the game was up! Im sure some here will feel that was no big deal ete, but it most certainly was you can see the results of the destruction since he took over from bush, its called continuity of agenda!

"the constitution is being

"the constitution is being trashed in broad daylight"

It already has been....decades ago.....its corrupt to its core, "the greatest democracy on earth" is a sham....both parties work for $s....main street can go take a running jump....

regards

 

You almost started making

You almost started making some decent points  until you started with this Ron Paul nonsense.   I've seen quite a few US Elections in my time (been in several) and even an cursory examination of the numbers proves all those conspriacy theories about corporate control, etc., etc to be utter nonsense.   If you think Ron Paul is really the people's choice, then you must not have actually seen any indedpendent polling.  He's actially between 8-10%.   Here's one for you...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/republican_presidential_nomination-1452.html

Can any of you geniuses explain how 8 independent polling organisations are somehow colluding to manipulate the true will of the people and nobody else has gotten the memo?   Talk about your tinfoil hats!

Bozo your tin foil hats

Bozo your tin foil hats comments are simply ignorant crap. How independent are these pollsters you refer to , feel free to give details, and explain how the msnbc poll is not independent , they are establishment & the geo registered poll could not be messed with , in checked it out, so I am confused by your comments.
You also in another post seem to have forgotten floridas missing votes in 2000, convenient right, off the top of my head.
I know it must be hard being from the country which exports the Worst hypocrisy to the world, but come on because in order to demand better or see some improvement in your country , & then the worlds situation one must be less obviously biased. Oh & Karl Rove, spare me, he may know politics I give you that but the as a human being his role is nothing short of vile & contribution to the world disgraceful.

Calm down, please and step

Calm down, please and step slowly away from the computer.  I have a job to do, so this will be short.   

First try Rasumussen Reports who absolutely nailed predicting the last election.  Also keep in mind that polling firms are PAID to provide accurate and unbiased predictions.  If they don't, they go out of business.   So much for that conspiracy, Einstein. 

Second on the Florida election, the answer is much, much simpler.  The election was simply  too close to be within the margin of statistical error.   Now that right-wing, GWB-loving, instrument said so.   That would be the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/12/politics/12VOTE.html

 

Bozo it's all ok bro , most

Bozo it's all ok bro , most the rest of the world who can read and like to research full spectrum and form opinions which are flexible enough to understand that truth is almost impossible to find regardless of what field you play on. I think we agree that there are serious problems stemming by in large from your country , we seem to have different opinions on the reasons why , and that is ok too.
So we all best hope like hell things will miraculously stop deteriorating in America, i can assure you that's what I would like to happen. I believe that I'm more likely to be nearer the actual outcomes because I am prepared to accept some things are possible which it seems you are not open to., so while you scratch your head wondering why its getting worse , ill be able to explain why that is! She's a hard road back though from USA's current continued slide eh Bozo , and none of your current crop have any interest in making a lick of difference. James Richard (flip flop) Perry or Mitt (Obamacare author) Romney.
All the best mate, hope you like Nz

I do like it very much, thank

I do like it very much, thank you.   But if you think I'm sanguine about where the US is headed, then I may have misled you.  There are good reasons to be afraid, very afraid. 

Big corporate rule the world,

Big corporate rule the world, and they decide who you get to vote for...

Sad but true. These guys are so fricking bent they can't even see that buying politicians and warping public opinion is wrong or anything to be ashamed of.

From Bloomberg:

"Murdoch’s Daily Telegraph, the best-selling daily newspaper in Australia’s largest city of Sydney, is “running a campaign on regime change,” according to Communications Minister Stephen Conroy."

 “It’s not surprising at all that Murdoch is at it again in Australia while the U.K. phone-hacking scandal is still fresh,” said Tim Bale, a professor of politics at the University of Sussex and the author of “The Conservative Party: From Thatcher to Cameron.” “He tries to use his economic power to get political influence. It’s part of his business model.”

"Murdoch has long wielded political clout in Australia, where he controls about 70 percent of the newspapers. His papers helped elect every British government over three decades, and no New York mayor has been re-elected without his backing since Murdoch first bought the New York Post in 1976."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-11/murdoch-makes-no-retreat-from-scandals-with-attack-in-australia.html

This scumbag thinks he rules the world, maybe he's right.

 

..... and lest we forget ,

..... and lest we forget , Dan Quayle ... the list of lame-brain & lame-duck VP's is legendery ..

Joe Biden is a ... is a ... aaaaa ? ....you're right , bozobit ... Biden is beyond comprehension !

And yet , the USA remains the single largest economy , and the greatest source of technological advances in the world today ..... as it has been so , for many decades . In spite of the fools in government , America is still far ahead of any other country . Amazing !

Roger - my score forecast for

Roger - my score forecast for the opening game wasn't to bad after all.

Good call , Walter . You were

Good call , Walter . You were closer than me , I'd picked the AB's to slam-dunk the Tongans 60 nil .

.... even so , good to see the back three get 4 tries , go Daggy boy , go  you good thing ,  Daggy  boy ... John Clarke must be very proud of his nephew !

Oh, now let's change the

Oh, now let's change the subject  trot out Dan Quayle!  Were you around in 1980 when at age 33 he defeated a heavily-favoured three term incumbent, Birch Bayh, to become the youngest senator in Indiana history?  Given that Indiana became a state in 1816, that's not too shabby. I happened to be living there at the time and nobody there thought he was a dope,  I certainly don't think that Birch Bayh did.  I also have family who know him and his wife personally and I also was acquainted his chief of staff when I lived in DC in the 80s.  If I remember right, they never said he was particularly stupid.   Quite the opposite, I recall. 

Yeah, he's an idiot, too.   Uh huh. 

Do you people actually, um, research your opinions or just repeat what you hear from each another to make yourselves feel better?

My mistake , Dan Quayle is

My mistake , Dan Quayle is indeedy one intellectual hot potatoe . And I shall take your well intended advice , and do some research . Improve my Gummy mind . A mind is a terrible thing to waste . .... What a waste it is to lose one's mind or not to have a mind is being very wasteful . How true that is .

... give me another chance , friend . The future will be better tomorrow ... we don't want to go back to tomorrow , we want to go forward  .

... thankyou Mr bozobit , I shall mind my own business . Verbosity leads to unclear , inarticulate things .

To paraphase Robert Frost,

To paraphase Robert Frost, debating with you boys is like playing tennis with the net down.

I never said he was brilliant.  I never said he was stupid.  All I can go by is my experience, which, while limited, seems to be greater than yours in this case.

Actually, I don't really know how smart or stupid Palin, Qualye, Obama, Gringrich, etc. are and neither do you.  

However what I do know is that calling someone "stupid" isn't an argument.   It's just a lazy way to avoid having one.  Congratulations. 

Everyone, including you and me, have done or said stupid things from time to time.  I, alas, must confess that getting involved with debate with you lot was profoundly stupid.    What was I thinking? 

Relax , a bit of lively

Relax , a bit of lively banter is fun . We're all just berleying the waters , to attract a big fish to bite . And it's OK having you around to jest with .

... enlighten me though , your thoughts on next year's presidential election ?

Stay cool , man ! . Keep your balls up .

 

Jeez Gummy did ya hear about

Jeez Gummy did ya hear about it...them Rugby fellas are giving the sheilas the hots ripping their made in china shirts orf...I can't get mine up over me gut...

.. my gut is rocking with

.. my gut is rocking with laughter , d'yer see bozobit's replies to steven , below ? .... stomps  all over the peak-oiler's face ...

Heh heh ! ... Nice work , bozobit .

[ ..on that note , to Gummy  self , watch the rugby .... and shuddup ! ..]

Well, Gummy, I don't know if

Well, Gummy, I don't know if my balls are up or down, but I can report they are firmly attached, and for that I'm grateful.

As to the election, my prediction is that Obama will be defeated by either Perry or Romney as it is a horse race between the two of them now.  Obama's favourable ratings are under 50% and that's a very difficult positon to recover from unless the econonmy turns around.  It won't.  FYI, Reagan was about in the same position in 1983, but then the economy roared back and he beat Walter Mondale in a landslide. 

The other Republican candidates have faded and runing near single digits.  Bachmann had a surge to start, but Perry took her voters.  I doubt very much that Palin will get in as her voters have mostly gone to Bachmann or Perry.  She seems to be happy being the lightning rod and drawing the heat off the other candidates.  As for the VP pick, everyone seems to be saying Marco Rubio.   He's as pretty impressive speaker and an real antidote to the Obama story. For one thing, he doesn't need a teleprompter.   Check him on on YouTube if you have the chance.    Also anyone who thinks that Sarah Palin will be selected as VP, which I just saw on this site, needs to have their head examined.  Her negatives are way, way too high and that would be the end of the race right there.  

None of this is particularly stunning stuff and pretty much what most of the pros like Michael Barone, Dick Shoen and Dick Morris are saying.   

The only problem with it is that it depends on straight-line analysis, meaning things will generally continue as they have.   Some big event, good or bad, could change that.  Chris Christie might get in, but I doubt it.  It's important to keep in mind that McCain/Palin were about 10 points ahead when the financial crisis hit and changed the game.   Stuff happens.

 

The interesting bit this year is that Tea Party movement has really shifted the debate in the US to discussing the proper role of government and whether we want to have a country with limited government and local control or something more like the European model.  Right now we are headed the European way, and  fast and it doesn't look pretty.   As Mark Steyn said recently (now,there is a smart guy!), we have countries with debt of 120% of GDP being bailed out by countries with debt at 80% of GDP.  That won't end well.   For all the noise about the Tea Party being "extremists" or "stupid" or whatever (please!), their main beef has always been that the current fiscal trajectory is not sustainable.   That sounds alot like what I'm hearing on this site, and I wasnt' aware there were so many Tea Partiers in NZ!

These things are not that predictable and I just don't buy all the corporate conspiracy, elections-are-stolen, black helicopter nonsense.  Some of that stuff happens at the local level, in Chicago for instance, but the conspiracy mongers need to understand that US elections are run by hundreds of thousands of local volunteers in individual precints, each of which are manned by your neighbors, usually senior citizens.  When you go vote, you usually see your friends Fred and Ethel  doing the duties and counting the votes.   

Call me naive, but I don't think an army of secret grandpas is going to steal a US election. 

Thanks for that , bozobit . I

Thanks for that , bozobit . I am informed .

....... over here us " right-wingers " ( not rugby ! ) must be the equivalent of the " tea party " folk in America  . We're widely disparaged because we earnestly believe in individual accountability , that no one or nothing is " too-big-to-fail " , and because we believe that the welfare state does more harm than good ....  Extremists , us !

You'll have noticed that those conspiracy theories do the rounds here . One notable journalist ( Damien Grant ) ticked off a blogger today , for suggesting that a cabel of rich guys have a weekly coffee morning , and decide amongst themselves how to direct government economic policies .

And the funny thing about

And the funny thing about that comment was he suggested this "bunch of rich guys" having a weekly coffee was headed by Michelle Boag - who to my knowledge is a woman and has never been a member of the NZBR.

As "hard core" libertarinas,

As "hard core" libertarinas, yes....as always an extermist is one who only sees black or white...and an extremist is not necessarily right wing, can be just as equally applied to the left, or to a libertarian.....not sure if there is a big govn extremist....but anyway.

 

regards

Naive is indeed what you are

Naive is indeed what you are bozo, I will agree with you !

Nothing more to say than , Florida, Jeb Bush , missing votes , Fox TV etc.
http://www.hermes-press.com/criminal_vote.htm

Not that is makes any difference, your country is owned dude, it is not yours and deep down many more people are joining the dots. Don't take it personally , I critique my own county so that way I can look objectively at what ideas I might have which can add benefit in future.

palin is stupid......I mean

palin is stupid......I mean really stupid....stop thinking with your balls...

Met her, no Ive listened to interviews....she is thick....if this is the best the GOP has to offer god help America...

Carter, I much derided President, yet a statesman in his later years worth listening to....he has my respect.....I cant say I have much for any of the others, Bush Senior a little,....Clinton a little, at least he balanced the budget in his terms....which Bush junior reversed....pity the US today could be a place to envy....not deride.

regards

Hey Steven, you forgot that

Hey Steven, you forgot that Clinton only balanced the budget after he got a Republican congress in 1994.  (I'm sure you knew that, right?)  Here's how it works:  presidents propose budgets and congresses pass and appropriate them.  It takes two to tango, Sport.   

As far as budget balancing goes, Congress has far more power than the president, particularly the House of Representatives who by constitutional authority carries "the Nation's purse strings" as it is commonly put.  

That makes the Speaker of the House pretty damn important  in these matters.  And who do you suppose that was in 1995?  Why it was Newt Gingrich, the Nutter!

Have a nice day!

The nutter, yes that's

The nutter, yes that's correct...

regards

Sarah Palin, Bachmann.....but

Sarah Palin, Bachmann.....but they are more stupid than anything.......how about simply listing the Republican Party minus the fruity loops....its way easier...

um lets see.....um....oh.....maybe Ron Paul......

Ryan? nope, inventor of a totally incompetant "budget" that only balanced the books with 2.8%(?) unemployment in the US....

Rush Limbaugh.....a total wacko.....

"Newt" Gingrich?  come on....nutter with a capital N.

The present Congress leader? Boehner someone prepared to destroy America's economy and the existing President in any way possible.....

Just about anyone in the tea party wing........

Pretty much all extremists not representing the people, and in fact using them for cannon fodder.........I could go on for hours.....

regards

I hate to break it to you,

I hate to break it to you, matey, but your assertions above are not examples and they are not specific.  They are just broad-brushed name-calling seasoned with a dash of ignorance.   I suppose you could go on for hours, and  if your posts here are any indication, you have.  

And what the hell is this obsession with Sarah Palin all about?  As of now, she's not running for president. Do you actually understand that?  

Come to think of it, neither is Homer Simpson!   Perhaps you can expound on his mental facilities too as you appear to be quite expert at creating a cartoon of those you oppose and know little about and then single-handedly slaying it with your stunning wit.

Nice.

 

Hear hear!

Hear hear!

Sarah Palin, yes Im aware she

Sarah Palin, yes Im aware she isnt running...specific examples, there are quite a lot of interviews on youtube as uh fine examples of her um....[lack of] abilities and brain power.

Obsession, no, watching, yes....the VP a President in waiting....to have someone who is a born again christian nutter and not very bright in charge is a concern, to say the least....glad she isnt running....mind you the GOP candidates that are running seem "out there".....

My opinions are my own after all....formed from reading etc....and Im not a US citizen, so guess what I dont get to vote.....

regards

Of course she is not running

Of course she is not running , but the probability she could be picked up by as a number 2 is high IMO. As I have said before , Perry was highlighted many years ago following his appearance at a Bilderberg meeting in 2007 Istanbul as the establishments choice for GOP 2012. It is clear from the one eyed media coverage that Perry is being pushed as hard as possible, with Mitt Romney chosen as the other pretender used as the foil for Perry. All too predictable really if you read, read these peoples history & political records.

If you guys think that Sarah

If you guys think that Sarah Palin will be selected again as VP you either haven't been paying attention or you have lost your marbles.  Here's a challenge for you:  find one credible  political analyst in the US who is actually predicting that.  

Also, if you think the news media, which in study after study after study has been shown to be overwhelmingly Democratic in outlook and voting patterns is going to support Rick Perry, I want some of what you are smoking!    Were you born after 2008?  

Like shooting fish in a barrel.... 

Could you give some examples

Could you give some examples of who you believe to be credible analysts ? What of the facts about Perry having been a supporter of Al Gore http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2081596,00.html , Perry was a Demorcrat until 1989! You claim the media is Democratic leaning, please you surely realize the media has bets on both sides , it matters not who is president you surely can't be so naive to believe the owners of the political system would not play both sides, your post reads like you believe your country is free, spare me!
My opinion is that America is a political basket case has been for decades , and is exporting it's disgraceful view of democratic (imperialism) to the world, with the UK along for the ride all the way.
I mentioned Palin because anything is possible in American politics, so let's just see what happens.
Myself I would like to see America be a great country, leading by example to the world, as a free truly democratic republic, sadly this is unlikely to ever be the case again given the financial, social & economic destruction now in full view for those researching it to see. I genuinely hope it can be turned around, because as I said earlier, it is incredibly serious for the rest of us.
Could the Americans here please say what they feel about their country , as it is these days, it would be good to hear , so Bozobit, Kate etc please comment if you like.

Michael Barone, author of the

Michael Barone, author of the Almanac of American Politics for 30 years for one. Doug Shoen and Pat Cadell, who are well-respected Democratic pollsters and operatives, for another.  Dick Morris, who was Bill Clinton's political advisor for yet another.  And let's not forget Karl Rove, who despite what you may think of him personally, certainly knows his business.  All of these guys are regular writers and commentars in plain siight and frequently on TV.  It's not hard to find them.   If yo want to hear from people on both sides who actually know what they are talking about, I suggest the RealClearPolitics portal.   Google it.

If you knew your history, you would also know that in 1988, Al Gore ran for president as a moderate to conservative democrat.  At the time, there was still a pretty vibrant coaltion of what were known as "blue dog" southern democrats, many of whom were to the right of the republicans.   They are pretty much gone now as the party moved left.   So, it's not really surprising at all that Rick Perry would have been a democrat back then and supported Al Gore.  

Sure, the USA has it's big political, social and financial problems.  I agree with you that the country is in trouble, but I don't think it has anything to do with imperialism or corporate greed, etc.  

The only difference between the US and Europe is that Europe is a few years ahead of the curve.   You see, the West has governments that over decades have been steadily taking over more and more responsbiliies from their citizens, making more and more promises they can't keep, and getting deeper and deeper in debt by borrowing it from our children and the Chinese.  After a while, you end up wiith more people riding in the the boat (and expectitng it to go faster) and fewer and more demoralised people rowing it.  It's a combinnation of a fiscal, moral, and demographic crisis happening in plain sight.  No conspiracy theories are required to explain it.  The answer lies in the the mirror.  We have met the enemy and it is ourselves. 

But hey, have a coffee and get new iPad to make you feel better.  It'll be OK, really!

Thanks for the reply , I'll

Thanks for the reply , I'll look onto the report etc.
I do find I entertaining how some people can get that the problem is "ourselves" but yet can't see how it got to that point.
You were going ok until you said "I dont think it has anyhing to do with imperialism or corporate greed etc" , at that point I know you are not capable of accepting or seeing reality, do you not understand the details of how he USA has been financially blown up & exported it to the world via the banking system by the corporate greed you don't think is a problem, come on bozo , really!
Read some Bob Chapman & Webster G Tarpley , should help explain the greed & imperialism problems to you!

I didn't say it wasn't a

I didn't say it wasn't a problem.  I'm sure there are plenty of greedy guys on Wall Street, like everywhere else.  

What I meant to say is that it is not the most important structural problem driving the trends we are seeing.   Our politicians are simply giving us what we have asked for.   One person, can't remember who, said that the problem with democracies is that we all want to vote ourselves rich.   

You like that government-supplied health care?  How about long-term unemployment benefits? Retire at 60 after working only 30 years and live to 90?  Sweet.  Only 1/3 of my life actually  doing something useful and the other 2/3 being supported by "someone else" or "the rich"?  Give me more, mate!   Don't want children so you can have your "lifestyle"?  No problem!  Don't want to pay for  defence?  We'll get the Yanks to do that!  The pols will be lining up to give that to you as long as they aren't around for the reckoning.  Nice work if you can get it. 

Well, who's going to pay for that when we get old?  The children we don't have?  The Chinese?  All the rest of your ranting about corporate-imperial-greed-sell-out this and that is just detail.  You could turn them all into Boy Scouts tomorrow and it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference. 

Keynes said in the long run we're all dead.  Indeed. 

So, cheer up!

If Peter Dunne finally grew

If Peter Dunne finally grew some balls , he'd man up , and simply tell America to shove their FATCA up their shiny fat-ca arses  ! ....

..We're a sovereign nation , not a compliant state of America ......

..... jeez Louise , why has no one in NZ politics got any kahunas ( the Dominatrix , Mistress Paula , excepted ) .. ?

None of them have the balls,

None of them have the balls, is that not abundantly clear yet. You're not a young man, you must surely realise this by now, maybe not!

If NZ were a sovereign nation we would not have to borrow funds from abroad at interest, as just one example of how we are not!

Your comments above about poor old G.W. Bush, in case they were serious, you are correct he could do nothing, its not the presidents role, their role is "Continuity of Agenda" , as I made mention to in another post, this has been made very cobvious during the current Obama deception era! 

Its not a soverign problem?

Its not a soverign problem? ie its a direct attack on our banks?  From what I understood the IRS is saying to NZ banks supply us the information, or we will "fine you" 30%(?) of your US based assets...

So if say the TSB has no US based assets and ditto Kiwibank they can tell the IRS to shove it?

regards

The original graph, and how

The original graph, and how much the percentage win in the poll was not reflected in the bars for those who came far behind Ron Paul, as I understand it, the chart was changed to be more reflective following complaints to MSNBC (owned by GE)

http://real-agenda.com/2011/09/08/msnbc-swindles-audience-on-after-debate-poll/

The mainstream media are stonewalling Ron Paul by hardly mentioning him, and when they do, they are staying blatantly that he can't win.

http://rt.com/usa/news/mainstream-ron-paul-media/

 Ron Paul political stand

 Ron Paul political stand makes sense in adopting legislations, which can safe America from defaulting. Most others are just dreaming on the “American dreams”. The western world needs vigorous, revolutionary changes. Ron Paul will not be the new president – I think.  By heart – he’s still a republican -  a firefighter with a box of matches in his pocket.

 Egyptian penalty looks like

 Egyptian penalty looks like Obama's $US 447 billion job package.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOciQNhJe7E

 The worldwide situation is

 The worldwide situation is far worse then the media/ etc. are telling us and fact they are lying - witholding information.

 Where does the money come from – just to pay what we destroy ?

Defaulting of nations comes with inflation.

- Every sixth American lives on Food vouchers -

-  Millions more Americans cannot pay mortgages –

- Unemployment is over 15% counting people not looking for jobs anymore –

- Inflation is more then 3.6% in fact almost 8% -

- Poverty is hitting America’s population in an unprecedented speed –

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdMC_BHGVYc

 Recommended : Faber on Greece and the USA in 2009

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nasMgjgzD2U&feature=related

 Hello New Zealand

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6Q14HOBThM&feature=related

 

 

 

 End of Euro and worse to

 End of Euro and worse to come.

German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble, who is reportedly doubtful that the country can be saved from bankruptcy, is preparing for the possibility of Greek insolvency.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,785482,00.html

 

 

But good news Walter...for

But good news Walter...for some....Niger will report a massive increase in its GOLD reserves thanks to a recent transfer of about 145 tons of gold into the country....and all they need to do now is confiscate the lot..hahaaahaahaaahahaha

I don't care what Obama says

I don't care what Obama says - they are all lying anyway.

A libertarian.....now

A libertarian.....now normally I would say no, but the US is in such a mess that even a Libertarian would be an improvement.....he's certianly not a fruity loop, unlike Bacmann and Palin...or actually most of the others.....LOL.....sad....

If he's as honest as he seems then the Big Corps wont want him.....because he'll drop their pork barrel "incentives".....

regards

Bottom line it doesnt matter

Bottom line it doesnt matter who is the US president or which party is in Congress or Senate....They may as well have Mickey Mouse....think what would happen if MC was president...

The US gave up power to big corportations, banks, presure groups and lobbists back in the late 70s early 80s...what the voters want meand squat, and they rwaly dont realise they donr care.  The split between democrates and Republicand has be so close in resent yrs they may as well take turns ot flip a coin.

The US is not about presidentual polcy its about lobbists behind congress and senate., the president either has to be a "yes" person or basically sit out his term(s) as a pupet that even if  has populist ideas , will not happen.

Correct , however the reeaon

Correct , however the reeaon to care is because the situation is so serious now. It would be a miracle if Ron Paul got anywhere near the GOP nomination , however the important point now is that the issues Ron Paul has not wavered on for decades , his impeccable voting record & policies are now being discussed widely , that is critical.
The rest of the world must care , Americans need to care & more of them are now starting to realize the lies that have ruled their lives under.
It will all break eventually, regardless , that is a certainty!

Cutting back to the chase.Any

Cutting back to the chase.Any Yank who wants to hide should just go to Kiwibank, TSB or perhaps Heartland that has no baggage.

The point you are missing is

The point you are missing is that a US citizen (and in some cases people who hold green cards) have to pay US tax on any world wide income for ever and it includes income on assets passed to decendants, even non US citizens.

If a US citizen wants to renounce their citizenship they have to pay a tax on their world wide assets.  

This is why the US wants to enforce this law. Too many citizens want to jump ship.

The East Germans used barbed wire, guns and dogs to keep their citizens from excaping. The USA uses the IRS!!!

How far down does that go?  I

How far down does that go?  I mean, if Joe Average Yank marries an Australian and is working in an average-wage job in Brisbane, is he expected to pay two lots of income tax?  Or is it only enforced above a certain level?

This is one of Simon Black's

This is one of Simon Black's ( Sovereign Man ) themes : If you have US citizenship , then you " owe " Uncle Sam , no matter how  far  nor how long  you go away . They " own " you , as a productive chattel .

..... think very carefully , before applying for that Green Card . Mexicans & Filippinos who return home , after a lengthy stint in the USA , are being sought by the IRS .... Barack Obama needs some of your pesos from driving that jeepney , or from planting that rice paddy , or from cracking that dope deal  ..

If renouncing citizenship

If renouncing citizenship doesn't get you out of it, then that's way past totalitarian.  Don't think I've ever seen a better incentive for identity theft.

Since you want to leave, why

Since you want to leave, why should they care about you? hence taxing you for every penny they can....

 I must admit if you live and work outside of a country I fail to see why you are liable for that countries tax.....wierd....

regards

 

Not an American tax lawyer

Not an American tax lawyer but if you search on the internet it appears there are thresholds. Some are quite high, like and income over USD 147000, assets are  USD 2,000,000 but gift duty starts at 12000 and is 45%.

They only want to keep the big fish. The irony is the big fish seem to find the tax loop holes

Heres a link

http://www.taxmeless.com/USCitizenRenounce.htm

Interesting. My partner is

Interesting.

My partner is American, so this is relevant to my interests. 

Dudes, let me explain it to

Dudes, let me explain it to you.  I'm a US taxpayer who has been living abroad for many years. 

I file a return in both the USA and New Zealand.   I declare all my income globally (NZ and USA) on my US tax return. 

I also declare all my NZ income on my NZ return.  

However, all taxes paid in NZ are credited against my US taxes. 

For example if I owe the US $10k in taxes but pay $8k in NZ, I owe the US the $2k difference.  If I owe the US $6k and pay $8k in NZ, I owe the US nothing.  (They don't refund the $2k, damn them!)  The second way is how it usually works out because US Federal tax rates are generally lower than NZ tax rates.  

Simple, eh?

Simple. Nz banks should just

Simple. Nz banks should just not bank any Americans... Then no problems. If Americans have a problem go back and get the law changed

From Wiki..Bozobit

From Wiki..Bozobit definition

McCarthy's Rule #4 is "Don't Flip The Bozo Bit". McCarthy's advice was that everyone has something to contribute — it's easy and tempting, when someone ticks you off or is mistaken (or both), to simply disregard all their input in the future by setting the "bozo flag" to TRUE for that person. But by taking that lazy way out, you poison team interactions and cannot avail yourself of help from the "bozo" ever again.[3

 

 

Precisely.  That's where I

Precisely.  That's where I got it from several years ago.   Good book. 

 "So, we are seven-tenths of

 "So, we are seven-tenths of the way towards fascism in the United States"

 The Economic and Financial System Is Coming Unglued, Living in a Degraded Democracy

 http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article30331.html

 this sort of rising tide of bad policy and extreme spending and a takeover of the economy – and not just the US economy, but all of the economies by these governments, the nation-states – that things have reached the point, people tend to think that things are going to stay the same and continue as they are, but they don’t. Sooner or later, history shows over and over again, things break, systems break, and I think we are very close to that.

 Well, it’s because fundamentally – and there are lots of reasons why politicians will not tell the truth to the population as a whole and say, “Look, we are not slashing spending if we go back five years in our deficits. You know, America and the world was not a rubble-strewn anarchic wasteland in 1995, and if all we do is cut spending back to that we will have made massive progress,” and people aren’t willing to just tell the truth and say, “Look, you people have become lazy and entitled and you have lost track of reality, we have lost track of reality, we have encouraged you to lose track of reality, so we really need to make decisions before reality makes those decisions for us in a much more brutal way,” but it seems hard to imagine anyone could get elected without sort of chanting, “USA Number One,” and actually telling the truth to the population, so it is almost like the market of the delusional population is driving politics in a way

Only 7/10ths? What is the

Only 7/10ths?

What is the defination of 10/10ths?  a jack boot wearing Congress with it placed on the throat of main street?  just seem to be missing the jack boot from what I can see...

regards

IRS says 12,000 taxpayers

IRS says 12,000 taxpayers have declared offshore bank accounts that the taxman says has reaped US$2.7 billion for it.

"You’d have to be living in a hole not to know that the US government is really focused on offshore tax evasion, getting better at it," IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman says.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-15/thousands-come-clean-to-irs-in-...