sign up log in
Want to go ad-free? Find out how, here.

You've been in the hot seat of an organisation of public interest with a chequered past for almost a year. So why not engage with the media, and by extension the public?

Business / opinion
You've been in the hot seat of an organisation of public interest with a chequered past for almost a year. So why not engage with the media, and by extension the public?
Aleyna Hall is the chief executive of the statutory authority overseeing the plumbing, gasfitting and drainlaying industry.
Aleyna Hall is the chief executive of the statutory authority overseeing the plumbing, gasfitting and drainlaying industry.

The new boss of the regulatory body in charge of our plumbing industry has been in her flash gig since September last year and she’s yet to give one media interview.

The chief executive of the Plumbers, Gasfitters and Drainlayers Board (PGDB) is being paid up to $280,000 each year, the PGDB won't tell me exactly how much despite being asked more than once, to be the top dog of an industry integral to public health.

Consumer education is included in the role, alongside licensing for the sector, and meting out punishments for tradies who do bad things, and regular people that have a crack at plumbing when they’re not meant to.

So I thought I would have a yarn to Aleyna Hall. Maybe get a feel for what she thinks about the industry, industry issues, and the ongoing discontent with the PGDB’s fees-always-go-up attitude. I sent through a bullet-point list of things to discuss. 

But Hall didn’t want to talk to me. She is too busy until after the PGDB's board meeting in September.

And yet Hall, after being appointed to the top job almost a year ago, hadn’t been asked to give one interview to one media person in that entire time. Until me.

Nothing I wanted to talk to the new CEO about is new, or scary.

In fact, the history of the PGDB is one that is long, troubled, controversial, and often featured intervention from upon high when the PGDB yet again failed to do its job well, or fairly.

I am sure none of this is news to its new boss.

So let’s recap the recent, turbulent history of the PGDB shall we?

We can begin in 2006.

Then, the tertiary education minister of the day, one Michael Cullen, commissioned lawyer Hazel Armstrong (who often does these when-it-all-goes-wrong-in-government reports) to dig into an alleged breakdown of relationships between the PGDB and the industry training organisation.

This report found the relationship between two critical parts of the overarching plumbing system was dysfunctional, and while other sectors managed to hammer out their differences and work together — the plumbers and gasfitters couldn’t, leading to “industry paralysis”.

Armstrong found the PGDB was working outside its statutory role in a few aspects, and recommended, among many things, that it do basic things like consult with plumbers and gasfitters about licensing. Groundbreaking stuff.

In 2008 the Auditor-General agreed to look into the statutory body that is the PGDB after the then minister for building and construction, Shane Jones, pointed out the board was beset by a large volume of complaints by those trapped under its regime.

Now this was after, the Auditor-General said, it had been asked to review specific aspects of the board's activities several times since 2000, "resulting in advice at different times to the board, ministers, and the Regulations Review Committee of Parliament". And in the midst of all this was the suspension, and then sacking, of former CEO Phil Routhan after he took thousands of documents from the PGDB offices. 

The report published in 2010 by the Auditor-General was a damning indictment of the management of the PGDB. It found problems in most functions of the board.

It found a shaky legal basis for many of the board’s policies and actions, a closed and defensive culture, actions it took were often inconsistent and in essence, found the industry didn’t trust the people responsible for regulating them. Suspicion and discontent abounded, and for good reason.

Among its 15 recommendations was that the PGDB comply with legislation. 

Yes, the statutory body responsible for setting and enforcing the rules wasn’t following the law. 

Plumbers and gasfitters also complained the fees and levies set by the board were excessive, and challenged the legal basis by which the board had been charging disciplinary levies.

Further industry complaints were made to the Ombudsman and Parliament’s Regulatory Review Committee, which were mostly upheld. The Ombudsman found the PGDB had extracted about $600,000 from plumbers and gasfitters through its “unlawful” disciplinary levy.

Then, the unlawful taking of that money was locked in

Retrospective legislation was passed, entrenching that wonderful truth; regular people get smashed if they do the wrong thing. Authorities and those in power get misdeeds swept away, forgiven, or even laws are passed to right their previous wrongs. 

The Ombudsman recommended the board give back the cash it took unlawfully from the tradies. Of course, it did not. 

The Auditor-General also pointed out the board didn’t have to take licence fees every year, either, and could choose to licence plumbers for up to five years.

In a move that should surprise absolutely no one reading this, the PGDB did not make that change either despite the Auditor-General finding this policy, without having a clear reason, could be seen as a revenue-gathering exercise.

Call me cynical, but I am pretty sure the PGDB never failed to take fees and cash while it was mucking up most of the other things it tried to do.

A 2014 follow up report from the Auditor-General found a much improved PGDB.

However, it noted, near the top, that it “continues to receive complaints each year from plumbers and gasfitters”. 

“Most of the correspondence we receive is directly or indirectly about costs, and the effect that they have on tradespeople’s livelihoods.”

Fees for the industry went through a triennial review this year and the PGDB decided to put them up again. It did this time, at least, consider industry feedback.

Much like the big banks, the PGDB always has its eye on an uncertain future and just has to salt away more money. Just in case. Rainy days. You just never know.

Its annual report released in June contained this simpering defence: “Ultimately the board considers these fee increases necessary to ensure financial sustainability.”

Is it broke? Please. Far from it. It has loads of cash, just like the always-worried big banks.

It had total revenue of $5.4 million for the financial year ended March 31, 2022, and more importantly, recorded a surplus of $1.1m because, like the banks, it wasn’t anywhere near as bad as it expected its finances were going to be, because Covid.

Staggering news, a trapped cohort of plumbers and gasfitters and drainlayers just keeps paying even in a pandemic. Otherwise they can’t legally work.

Licence fees accounted for $1.6m. The dreaded disciplinary levy took in $1.3m from 26,958 plumbers, gasfitters and drainlayers.

It had $1.5m in cash and assets, and $3.9m in investments. Yes, $3.9m invested. A statutory body. Which is raising industry fees in a cost of living crisis.

And it had total revenue of $5.18 million for the financial year ended March 31, 2021.

In that year it spent $4.6m, meaning a surplus of $507,429. Then it had $1.3m in cash, and a further $2.3m in investments.

In 2020 it had $613,574 in current investments. Now that number tops $3.9m.

The PGDB said, in a written statement, it needs to build-up cash reserves at a rate of $320,000 a year so after seven years there is $2m “set aside for a further upgrade of the practitioner database”.

"The Board is committed to operating in a cost-effective manner. All fees and disciplinary levies are calculated on a full cost recovery basis as the Board receives no government funding. When setting fees and levies the Board follows the Office of the Auditor-General’s good practice guidelines, Charging fees for public sector goods and services, as well as Treasury guidelines," it said.

Industry sources snorted at the idea it needs all this cash for IT, apparently. Although it does have a new app for licencing (gotta do that every year, remember) that I am told is OK. 

It has plenty of cash in the bank, and despite the current economic environment, cost of living crisis, supply chain crisis, and general everything-is-so-expensive crisis, it just had to keep hiking those fees. Of course it did.

This is a direct cost tradespeople are stuck with, and guess who will ultimately pay. Consumers.

There is still plenty of discontent in the industry, in particular with fees.

So what has the PDGB been up to with those fees?

The new boss proudly pointed out consultation, a new-look newsletter, stakeholder liaison, and said it “delivered a strong and comprehensive regulatory service in challenging circumstances”. And Hall is off on a roadshow within New Zealand, before travelling across the Tasman to meet regulators there.

It isn't having a challenging time financially, of course, And there's the app too, of course.

I could have asked Hall, in writing, what her vision for the industry was, but we can glean which platitudes may have been regurgitated in a written statement by reading her first annual report message.

“For me as Chief Executive,” Hall wrote, “in a world of ever-increasing change and connectivity, effective regulation involves keeping my gaze on the future and anticipating change and risks, while at the same time firmly focusing on the present and ensuring our organisation is structured and positioned in a way that enables us to drive forward.”

I too believe the children are the future, teach them well and let them show the way.

A cash stash also helps the PGDB team to sleep comfortably at night I am sure, the knowledge that there is a mattress of dosh just there must be of great reassurance. Just in case things go bad. Just in case.

Some regulators and statutory bodies may live in the land of ever-increasing assets milked from small business owners, tradies, and other people who want to do productive stuff, but ICYMI, life’s not like that for the rest of us.

Many outside the cosy and cushy world of a regulator are struggling. Tradies are struggling. All of our costs are going up.

And the industry problems remain the same. It isn't bringing in enough new people. It doesn't like the ever-rising fees. It's concerned about attracting the right people to the industry.

Plumbers, gasfitters and drainlayers are business owners, as well as people who have completed years of training (seven years for plumbing certification) to become skilled workers, that we rely on to keep us safe and healthy. Some of these businesses are huge. This is a critical industry.

So yes, Hall and co, I do hold you to a higher standard than someone on the street, or a small business owner. 

You are a regulator. You have power. 

We can’t escape you. There’s no opt out for dealing with the PGDB, or Licensed Building Practitioners Board or Electrical Workers Board or the Registered Architects Board.

New Zealand has a rich history of regulatory failure, and the PGDB takes up quite a few chapters.

You’ve heard my thoughts on regulatory failure before.

And much like those old rants, saying you are too busy (the building minister Megan Woods is easier to get hold of) feels like old news, and seems like the bad old days of the defensive PGDB.

We welcome your comments below. If you are not already registered, please register to comment.

Remember we welcome robust, respectful and insightful debate. We don't welcome abusive or defamatory comments and will de-register those repeatedly making such comments. Our current comment policy is here.

47 Comments

Regulators inevitably end up being lobbyists for the industries they're supposed to be regulating. Just look at ComCom and the RBNZ.

Up
18

You could add MPI to that list

Up
11

Indeed, we were discussing MPI the other day at my work. They literally have multi year ongoing "projects" which never deliver anything and keep "pivoting" to something new.  It's a bit of a dysfunctional gravy train. 

Up
13

Rebecca, you've been here less than two months & without even reading this wall of text, I know that it's going to be another one of your wet bus ticket attempts to write an attack piece. Don't you have something more constructive to offer this readership than limp attempts to jab at people?

Up
2

it does sound like rebecca had an agenda and was going to try and dismantle ms hall.

Up
2

I disagree legs, it sounds like Rebecca had done her homework and wanted to hold a highly paid CEO in charge of an aspect of public safety to account. Good on her. 

As an aside, in my experience plumbers have turned out to be the most disappointing of tradies with regard to quality of work. Despite having among the highest charge out rates.

Up
60

maybe so but ms hall seems to be doing what she is paid to do,is 280,000 highly paid for a ceo?,sounds a bit light,lots of similar jobs paying over 400K,main contention seems to be about her success in collecting a mattress of cash.

Up
1

My read is that the $280k rem for a CEO role is not so much the issue, but rather than $280k for a CEO of a historically dysfunctional and unaccountable regulatory quango is a bit rich given how they have utterly soaked their members.

Saying that, to get a decent CE you need to pay decent money, noting that there are plenty of shite CEs on far more, but maybe not on much more for such a small outfit.

Up
9

$280k. A bit light!  Spare me the BS. Just, another overpaid funded by others position that is part of the NZ rot. 

Up
11

Read the article. If Ms Hall has been defamed in any way she can sue. One catch. The truth is not defamatory. She is literally enriching herself at the expense of the plumbers who have to charge her expenses to their long suffering customers.

Up
2

CEO pay of $280K for a outfit with only 5.4 mil income is quite large

Up
10

Ms Hall dismantled herself by refusing the interview.

Up
8

"...& without even reading this wall of text, I know..."

You can stop there.

Up
21

Are you serious??? If anything, this article goes lightly on her. We need more journalists like Rebecca who are prepared to publicly scrutinise the cosy, conflicted, poorly run and overpaid bureaucrats that we have to suffer on Councils and Quangos. Expose the Board, dig into the Board Reports, they should be publicly discoverable. Warm up with this outfit and then turn to bigger fish.

Up
43

MP...   sounds like u are the one having a "limp attempt to jab at people ".

I found the article interesting..   

Up
17

 Good article. You should read it. Especially if you fancy publishing your own thoughts.

Up
12

Well now that is as good an article as you could ever wish for. But somehow I wish I hadn’t read it. It is utterly depressing because once again it  is quasi bureaucracy at large with their mantra “all authority, no responsibility.” NZ is riddled and beset with these nightmarish scenarios. Those in charge dictating to those that do with the former having little idea how it is done. Who exactly said says let’s keep moving then? Not bloody likely once the brown cardigan brigade wade in.

Up
46

Yet the general public's attack vector is via the elected Government officials and usually only by partisan motives.  Some photos show up on Facebook of Jacinda having a look through the new Costco in Auckland.   "Shouldn't she be sorting out our youth crime problems?"  "Bigger issues at hand" etc.  

Well overdue a shake up of the unelected bureaucracy.  I have a colleague who's family members (including children) work for various Government departments, and it's just a gravy train of auctioning themselves off to a different department every 12 or so months.  

Up
14

I publicly cast judgement on these people - they should feel shame for what they are doing every extra cent that goes in their pocket is one that comes out of the services they are supposed to provide.

Whenever someone says government funded you should always correct them to taxpayer funded.

Up
10

You judge them for doing the best they can for themselves in a capitalist society?

 

Do you think the public sector should compete for talent with the private sector, or should they only hire entrenched beaureaucrats?

 

Seems like politicians/beaureucrats spending their time outside of capitalism before they get into politics/beauracracy is worthy of criticism "they've got no real world experience" right? But we shouldn't hire people who want to try get ahead. Under those conditions who is a worthy candidate?

Up
1

Last century's import licensing is this century's regulatory capture

Up
4

Good article. Thanks.

Up
26

How do I get one of these "money for nothing" jobs?

Nice work, if you can get it. 

Up
14

You play the geetar on the MTV

Up
16

With a $280k salary she could have lots of custom kitchen deliveries. 

Up
8

Good  article. Which Minister is asleep at the wheel here? Come to think of it extend that back a decade or so. A case of leave it to the CEO, not just the current one, they've a big fat bank balance no need for a top up from the govt coffers. As Minister I don't need to dig too deep, it's all hunky dory. Getting close to the deep state.

"“For me as Chief Executive,” Hall wrote, “in a world of ......"" If you read the rest of the paragraph its full of what I classify as CEO weasel words.

Definitely need to have articles on little heard from govt bodies who set there own agenda, at least to Joe public.

Not sure if the Electrical Workers Registration Board falls into the same league.

 

Up
19

Dr Megan Woods

Up
5

LOL, beware the jilted journalist, the pen truly is mightier than the plumbers bill.

Up
3

Wow! Just imagine what is found when you go down one of the rabbit holes in the Wellington bureaucracy! Could have been part of the classic "Alice in Wonderland" story. Only the Ministry of Business, Innovation & Employment (surely an oxymoron) could have fathered this not so little "statutory board" complete with Wellington office, well paid CEO and a board of 10, whose main effort is to assure their own comfort.

I guess the PDGB is but one of many such Quango's which feast on the people who actually do the work. They breed like mushrooms in the dark.

A good article.

 

Up
31

Bit tricky that.  

The PDGB was formed in 2006 and the MBIE started in 2012. 

Up
2

dont try to confuse us with the facts,she has been tried by the media and found guilty and has now been well and truly stuffed.

Up
2

I bet their "practitioners database" is just (or should be) a slightly customised CRM/Salesforce system.  Wouldn't make sense for it to be much else, it's probably all it ever needs to be.  Upgrades to that sort of system are easy as they are quite flexible systems. One proper in-house CRM person can run the whole thing, including changes.  There are quite a few small regulatory outfits that have that model and it works well.

It also makes sense for them to have a slight cash surplus, I am afraid, and for the size of the outfit ~$2m makes sense.  Sometimes urgent actions come up which require a significant spend, unless they run cap in hand to the government for funding.  Do they get any ongoing government funding? For such a small market, it might be hard to have a full regulatory authority supported just from subscriptions, which is why they probably charge so much, if they don't receive central government funding.

Still, pretty shocking they weren't actually applying the law, that's 101 stuff about running a regulatory org.

Up
6

In the big picture, we once had enough surplus energy going into the system, that we could specialise in all sorts of minor ways. Like this organisation. That surplus is reducing now - showing up in ways not many people associate with energy, but that's what it is.

https://www.resilience.org/stories/2011-03-10/joseph-tainter-talking-ab…

Rome probably had these folk, these structures, too; but at the end the citizens welcomed the barbarians in....

Good article.

Up
0

This accumulating ‘nest eggs’ type of personality behaviour from some bureaucrats is common in everyday organisations as well. I know personally of two where fees crept up even when there was a substantial amount of cash invested. One was a Pony Club and the other was a work social club. It took a huge amount of member agitation to prise the cash loose from the boards in charge. The ‘saving for a rainy day’ philosophy has to have some agreed upon limits.

Up
10

Yes, and what happens a few years down the track when nobody is looking is that lump of cash is blown on either some vanity project or some expenditure bordering on cronyism. 

Up
8

What regulatory failure, here in New Zealand? Surely not?  I mean, it's a feature, not a bug, isn't that obvious? The tribe looks after its own.

Up
3

One of these quango's is LGNZ [Local Government New Zealand] currently ''representing regional councils from around the country'' through the 3 waters debacle. CE Stuart Crosby - ex mayor of Tauranga - is the man in the seat, who by the way just happens to be a raging liberal, trying to get the local councils to buy into the governments 3 waters programme. His wages are paid by subscriptions by the local councils, so you would have thought he'd have their best interests at heart. Nope. Sorry. He right in behind Mahuta's divisive plans, trying to get councils to agree with what's going on, while the people who pay his wages, the councils & therefore ratepayers (some $400K I'm led to believe) are actually underwriting his attempts to shaft them. It's a strange old world isn't it?

Up
8

And Stuart Crosby signed up for LGNZ to endorse the 3 Waters fiasco presented by Mahuta without even asking the local government members of LGNZ beforehand. Just a crony done deal. Why do we have to put up with these people?

An excellent article and ... [ fragment removed. Insult unnecessary. Ed ]

Up
6

The board members are impressive IMO. People with good industry and business experience. And good to see a good gender balance (I don't mean that for woke purposes). The CEO is a lawyer by profession and worked at Kensington Swan. That legal experience is probably useful, if it is applied meaningfully.

Probably grossly overpaid for what she actually does. 

 

Up
0

The fees don't sound that crazy, $1.6M from 27K plumbers is about $60 p.a. each.

Up
0

5.4m revenue, likely works out to $8m consumer cost.

What value do you perceive from that $8m spend?

Up
5

They pay way more than that.if not in direct fees, then in courses etc. Where does the rest of the boards income come from. Also, much of the work is actually done by mbie.

Up
1

$400 to $600 p.a. depending if you hold 1, 2, or 3 licenses.  Not to mention CPD courses,  exam fees, registration fees etc.

Up
1

Thats what i was told . In comparison, Electrical workers are $ 125 a year . and only require a refresher course once every 2 years .  

Up
0

Sounds like the writer has a chip on thier shoulder. Didn't get an interview? Well you can see why... CEOs are busy people. If there was the promise of one before this article, your defiantly not getting one now...

Rubbish article. Just comes out like your bitter at getting bumped off... 

Up
0

Great article, I think you're my favourite columnist here.  Not afraid to call a spade a spade.

Up
1

They also had their REGISTERED CHARITY STATUS reinstated after a High Court Appeal??

 

Up
1