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Have your say: Should parliament have launched an inquiry into banks?
Parliament's Finance and Expenditure Committee has decided not to hold an inquiry into banks, their profit margins and interest rates, the NZ Herald has reported. Committee Chairman and National MP Craig Foss told the Herald the committee had voted against an inquiry into "recent banking practices including a particular focus on retail interest-rate margins". Labour Party finance spokesman Cunliffe said he favoured a broader inquiry covering margins on medium-term rates and credit-card borrowing as well as short-term rates.
However, on being informed by the Reserve Bank that it was reasonably happy with the medium-term picture, Labour's position was that it would have been satisfied with a narrower inquiry. That was an approach Government members had given "every indication" of supporting. "Not only does that mean there will be no further action on it from the committee, but it also in my view calls into question the integrity of the process. "We went through an exploration, the prima facie case was established by the Reserve Bank, and Government members voted against it anyway. "Thousands of New Zealand homeowners, businesses, farmers and exporters have every reason to ask why Parliament's watchdog on the economy is, by a majority vote, choosing to stay muzzled," Cunliffe said. Federated Farmers' economics and commerce spokesman, Philip York, said his organisation had also gained the impression there was cross-party support for an inquiry and was now disappointed with the committee's decision. Foss said yesterday's decision was made following "various briefings", including additional presentations from the Reserve Bank. "I think the committee has a lot more information at hand to reach the conclusion by majority that it did today, but I'm sure all members will be looking forward to the next Financial Stability Report and the next Monetary Policy Statement from the RBNZ." Foss also echoed Prime Minister John Key's comments last month that an inquiry was of limited value. "At the end of the day an inquiry could only ever inquire. Could it affect and impact on actual interest rates or effect change? Obviously it can't."
My view below
I've looked into these issues in detail and have written these previous pieces here on why Parliament's attack on the banks was wrong on 8 counts and an initial article on the committee's report. Westpac's economists have also published an extensive research note on this issue here. I think the committee was wrong to suggest banks are profiteering by not passing on the last OCR cut. The banks' own figures show their profits are falling because they're having to compete harder for local term deposits and their foreign funding costs are up. But I think the banks can be criticised in a couple of areas. They are being much more conservative in their lending to businesses then to farmers and households. They appear to be subsidising cheap mortgage rates with higher overdraft rates for businesses and very high credit card rates. They would argue the risks are higher, but if that were true they would have shut down new lending to farmers completely. Instead they are piling even more bad money after good into the rural sector. I think the committee was right in the end not to launch a full inquiry. It would have told them what I and Westpac have already said. But I am curious about the Reserve Bank's behind the scenes role here. Bollard was grumpy in public with the banks, but appears to have backed off behind the scenes, apparently reassuring the committee he was 'comfortable' over the medium term. I'm still waiting for the Reserve Bank to provide the details Bollard referred to in his FEC hearing about bank margins rising substantially. I have made an OIA request. I'd also love to know what the RBNZ told the committee in its "additional presentations." It's convenient for everyone to kick the banks, but if they don't follow up with new rules and leashes then there's a risk they are seen to be crying wolf. One day the FEC will probably need to hold an inquiry. Let's hope they make the right noises first next time. I think the Reserve Bank needs to be careful it doesn't make itself look impotent by talking tough and then not being able to or wanting to follow through in public. Actually, the Reserve Bank announced on Tuesday a new prudential liquidity policy that will have the effect of restricting the banks from going on another borrowing spree offshore to fund new mortgage lending here. That is a real leash, but it got virtually no publicity in the mainstream media. The Reserve Bank is actually being tough with this leash. The problem for the Reserve Bank is this leash may actually have the effect of putting up mortgage rates slightly. That wasn't what the politicians would have wanted any leash to do. New Zealand's basic problem is that interest rates are too low, both for depositers and borrowers. Margins are not the problem. Your view? We welcome your views in the comments below.
36 Comments
My
My view:
http://www.interest.co.nz/news/poll-result-45-readers-say-banks-are-prof...
Through to July 2nd, 2009 at 11:39 am
Also see:
Manufacturers, exporters support bank inquiry
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=1058...
and:
PEC Slams courage of select committee
http://www.voxy.co.nz/national/productive-economy-council-slams-courage-...
No. Parliament should have launched
No. Parliament should have launched an inquiry into Parliament. Just how is it so many pudding heads make it in?
So what if we had
So what if we had an inquiry and found the banks are making excessive margins?
Make that illegal? Pass a law to make maximun margins only ? Punish the banks by capping their lendings? Revoke their banking license?
What a laugh....all those Labour MPs has too big a head and too small a brain inside.
This is just cheap political posturing.
The hard facts remains : New Zealand has too much debt fueling too much useless investments and consumption...that's what got us into this situation now when the world money flow stops.
It's time we look in the mirror and start some discipline with less consumption, less useless investment and stop the bubble from growing again.
The answer is higher interest rates, not lower, and if banks are making higher margins to enforce this discipline, it's their business. If you think it's too high, don't borrow. If your business cannot survive with higher interest rates, then your business is uneconomical in the first place...shut it down.
Axis of greed or unfairly
Axis of greed or unfairly maligned?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/2558719/Axis-of-greed-or-unfai...
"Does our government have the stomach to take on big business? [C'mon dude....]
This question needs to be asked in the wake of the decision by National, Maori Party and Act members of Parliament's finance and expenditure select committee not to hold an inquiry into bank interest rates.
This decision comes despite the concerns of Reserve Bank Governor Alan Bollard that the 575 basis points he has slashed from the Official Cash Rate since last July have not been passed on in full to floating and short-term mortgage rates.
This remember, is against a backdrop of the world's worst economic crisis since World War II. This crisis led, last October, to taxpayers' taking on some of the local banks' risk - as banks overseas collapsed - through the Government's Retail Deposit Guarantee Scheme.
Thousands of struggling mortgage holders, small business owners and farmers - who are also voters - would have welcomed a parliamentary inquiry. [Yep, I think that's the case, see NZMEA survey results - 86%] And from the big banks perspective, if they have nothing to hide, they had nothing to lose. Heck, they might have even educated the masses on the complicated, vexed world of how banks' source their funding." Yes, we'd be interested to know more about that:
http://www.interest.co.nz/news/poll-result-45-readers-say-banks-are-prof...
As I keep saying you
As I keep saying you can't blame a bank for being bank but an enquiry will open up the entire subject of what's good and bad for the real (productive or tradable) economy and banking practices along with many other issues are bad for the real economy. For goodness sake can we please get out of the we have a problem and its of our own making and we have live with it mentality.
Yes we all collectively (mainly Boomers) made this problem but we can fix it. But we can't fix it doing the same old things and expecting a different outcome.
"¢ Boomers have made off with the countries equity and not created jobs in the process. All Boomer's own that track record especially politicians
"¢ They hocked the country to Aussie banks who were willing lenders to property but not the productive economy (guess what that does????)
"¢ They were not willing lenders to the productive economy and we just sat and watched as our export economy vaporised
You can't take the banks out of the equation of what has to change to produce a wealth generating (not asset inflating) country, where jobs are created and people can earn international wages as a result of the great exports we deliver to the world.
Banks are linked to"¦
"¢ what we pay for capital,
"¢ the amount of money in circulation,
"¢ inflationary pressures,
"¢ where that money goes (productive or non productive),
"¢ and indirectly to the exchange rate.
"¢ I suspect that's enough reasons to have a review of banking practices but add in
"¢ Break fees,
"¢ Lending margins,
"¢ FX / carry trade and the fact the
"¢ top 4 banks make more money here than the entire NZX 50
and I think you have some concern worthy of a review
can they investigate why savings
can they investigate why savings rates are so low?????????????????? oh, I forgot again, its only borrowers that matter.
Nice to see fpf raising
Nice to see fpf raising their deposit rates. I expect the mainline banks to be raising soon as well. An inquiry would be a total waste of time and money. The sooner rates are higher the better. Force down property prices and boost savings. Bollard can see the storm approaching and it would be wise for the rest of us to avoid debt.
To save people some time
To save people some time here is the snap shot of the press release from NZMEA.
86 percent of respondents supported an inquiry into the financial sector in a survey conducted by the New Zealand Manufacturers and Exporters Association (NZMEA) over the last two weeks of June. This survey comes out on the heels of the Finance and Expenditure Select Committee's decision not to have an inquiry into bank's lending practices.
The survey also found that:
63% of respondents reported that their bank had increased the margins they paid on credit facilities;
57% of respondents reported that their bank had tightened covenants associated with their credit facilities;
55% of respondents reported that their bank had increased charges associated with their credit facilities;
27% of respondents reported that their bank had tried to increase their credit facility costs but maintained existing arrangements when they complained; and
46% of respondents reported that their bank had used the opportunity of any change of credit facilities to increase cross guarantees.
Jimmy, it's about the entire
Jimmy, it's about the entire economy, not just one aspect. Real wealth bennifits everyone. Even lenders as there is more demand for productive investments that "grow" the size of the pie.
Wally, I would be happy that interests rates go up and have the effect you discuss as long as it doesn't put New Zealand at a competative disadvantage in the real economy.
Ie starting carry trade all over again and the impact on NZD and exports.
I like what you've written
I like what you've written kin. I'm all for parliamentary inquiries in general, because it keeps them busy. The last thing this country needs is for government to stick their nose into things they don't understand and try to fix the problem. If our MPs want to do something to help the economy they should look for ways to cut the cost and size of government in our lives. Every time I see a bad driving, drink driving, smoking, or family violence advertisement on television, I want to vomit.
Beat up on the banks.
Beat up on the banks. Ooh, how very clever of us, how original ! Someone point out to me which bank is it that prods a loaded shot-gun into your ribs, and demands you take out a massive mortgage, on a woefully over-priced 3 bedroom shoe-box in the 'burbs ?
Wally, you obviously have money
Wally, you obviously have money deposit in bank, and regreted not buying house like most of your friends...better get over it.
Errr.. Isn't that Kiwibank, Roger?
Errr.. Isn't that Kiwibank, Roger? Seems to me they prod the pack with their leading edge lending rates... and besides... even their ads. are militaristic.....
Tina, you obviously have little
Tina, you obviously have little money deposited in the bank, and regret buying a house like most of your friends...I don't think you'll get over it.....
janet : Thanks, I didn't
janet : Thanks, I didn't know that. I'm with the ANalZ.
I have money deposited in
I have money deposited in the bank, and I certainly don't regret not buying a house. I couldn't think of anything worse than being saddled with that kind of debt right now, especially on a crappy overpriced house.
This is the exact reason
This is the exact reason why people are scared of buying shares, and buy investment properties instead. People do not want to risk owing equity in a business that can be significantly impacted by crusades that believe they are saving the world.
Let businesses be businesses. If they are making a profit, good "“ go buy some shares in them.
"¦and as for Labour it's not about doing the best for NZ'ers, it is about doing the opposite of National. As the old saying goes, if you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem "“ Labour are not part of the solution.
Tina you dear old thing,
Tina you dear old thing, I sold property in the bubble time and made a fortune in the share market on WMC thanks to BHP and copper prices. I am quite happy to wait until property prices return to a norm. My loot is reinvested in copper and gold. Don't know which will boom first. Very pleased not to be desperate to sell out of property. I listened to Bollard when he warned the stack of cards was soon to fall.
Nice one Wally. Enjoy you
Nice one Wally. Enjoy you Bullion . No, seriously.
Select committees are supposed to
Select committees are supposed to be the means that stop a small group from infiltrating and establishing total central control of parliament. They are meant to be made up of the most intelectual members representative of the numbers held in parliament by each party. Members of select committees are supposed to vote on conscience based on the evidence presented to them as to whether the debate should be thrown open for public submissions. To see parties voting to preserve other deals they have with the majority party is very concerning.
It is very concerning to hear Bill English fire back in question time that we are not going to have a bunch of backbenchers calling for inquiries.
I agree with the FinSec representative when he said the Government was either impotent or in the pockets of the bankers.
I say yes there needs to be another open debate into banking, monetary and credit systems, allowing public submissions as due to what has eventuated there are many more people schooled up on the practices of international banking since the last debate into future monetary plicy held in 2007.
Goodnight All, will be back to continue the good fight Friday night.
Sam Smith....well put NZers need
Sam Smith....well put
NZers need to "Cut their cloth to fit"
British parliamentary commission is investigating
British parliamentary commission is investigating why some banks are trying to sell even more debt to punters.
Bad decision!
Bad decision!
Hahahaha, Treasury 'officials' get it
Hahahaha, Treasury 'officials' get it wrong again. Only $500ooo or so and will we hear from Cunliffe screaming for an inquiry into Treasuries figures on who spent what on limos in the run up to the election? Not bloody likely, right Cunliffe. Oh no we don't want it known that Labour wasted more than National.
Glad to see someone else
Glad to see someone else reads the RBNZ information Bernard. I thought there recent changes were actually rather subtle in appearance but dramatic in their long term effect. As I understand it they have set a minimum requirement for bank borrowings to be sourced in NZ that is fairly easy for the banks to achieve. Having established this baseline they are of course able to adjust it in future and so, rather cleverly I thought, they now have the upper hand on setting interest rates.
Well done The Reserve Bank I say. They have done us proud I think, particularly considering how badly the big boys in the US, UK, EU, Japan and China have done. Lets hope it continues....
Quoting from article above: "I
Quoting from article above:
"I think the committee was wrong to suggest banks are profiteering by not passing on the last OCR cut. The banks' own figures [the ones laden with bad debt provisions, right?] show their profits are falling because they're having to compete harder for local term deposits and their foreign funding costs are up."
But I think the banks can be criticised in a couple of areas. They are being much more conservative in their lending to businesses then to farmers and households. They appear to be subsidising cheap mortgage rates with higher overdraft rates for businesses and very high credit card rates. [And this isn't 'gouging' businesses and credit card users then?] They would argue the risks are higher, but if that were true they would have shut down new lending to farmers completely. [So it can't be true then, which means....] Instead they are piling even more bad money after good into the rural sector. [This in itself warrants an inquiry - isn't this the same dynamic that happened in the US sub-prime housing sector - this the potential to add more unwanted, unncessary risk into core export sector - what gives?]
"At the end of the day an inquiry could only ever inquire. Could it affect and impact on actual interest rates or effect change? Obviously it can't." Said Craig Foss.
Excellent expectation management Craig - you guys must all go to the same PR school.
There is nothing obvious about an inquiry NOT affecting change, see:
Kiwibank called on to get competitive
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=1058...
The Manufacturers and Exporters Association wants state-owned Kiwibank to step up competition in the business banking sector after its members expressed "clear and deep dissatisfaction" with the major banks.
"...... the committee's attitude appeared to be that the Reserve Bank should be left to look after interest rates, but the issues were "far more complex than looking at the gap between the official cash rate and retail interest rates". Monetary policy and tax settings "lie at the very heart of the economic crisis" and part of the discussion "should involve a debate on the role that Kiwibank might play in driving competition in the mainly foreign-owned banking sector".
An inquiry with the suggested start point and the right minds on the job would have end up - challenging the 'status quo'
Oh, hang on, I understand now.....'status quo' - I forgot that can't be changed can it.
As for:
"Actually, the Reserve Bank announced on Tuesday a new prudential liquidity policy that will have the effect of restricting the banks from going on another borrowing spree offshore to fund new mortgage lending here. That is a real leash, but it got virtually no publicity in the mainstream media. The Reserve Bank is actually being tough with this leash."
Unless something like this is objectivised against some joined-up policy and ratified in the PTA, expect the leash to get slipped as soon as the dog wags it's tail. Make no mistake, it's pretty obvious the tail won't be wagging the dog - it hasn't in the past, it don't now and it won't, or can't in the future.
So little wonder then:
Anger at blocked inquiry into bank profits
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/2561061/Anger-at-blocked-inqui...
"Key told a public meeting in Christchurch last month that he was sure interest rates could fall "if the banks would try a bit harder".
"If grandstanding and handwringing fixed problems, then interest rates wouldn't have reached record levels under Labour," said Bill English.
Am not sure who is wringing hands here, but some hands seem to be pulling something.... errr...wool, or worse, maybe?
Remember - "try a bit harder" - is as good as it gets.
The government is to scared
The government is to scared to launch an enquiry into the banks because then their positions will be made public, and from what I have heard they are in deep trouble hence the lack of real pressure from the reserve bank and government. At present the are trying to increase their levels of security over farming client who were lent at 50-60% to make their book appear stronger because of undersecured lending in the housing markets.
Les - the central bankers
Les - the central bankers and their favourite son John Key want Kiwibank privatised asap, for as long as it remains, depending on political will of course, in public hands it potentially offers NZ a means of implementing and distributing its owned debt free based money supply in quick time and if the rest of the world were to cotton on to the tried and tested potential of such a thing, the central bankers hold on the world would come under threat.
Macka - interesting thoughts. Iain
Macka - interesting thoughts.
Iain - yep, and an inquiry might have gone near exposing that the world ain't as flat as some would have us believe.
Cheers, Les.
Brian Gaynor: The Las Vegas
Brian Gaynor: The Las Vegas of the currency world
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=1058...
"Clearly, there should be far more high level discussion on the state of the NZ dollar market and any measures we can introduce to reduce its volatile and speculative characteristics while assisting our export sector."
Yep, you'd have thought so Brian, and as you report:
"There is little doubt that our speculative and volatile currency curtails long-term export growth, which is going to be extremely important in helping the country exit from the current recession.
But the Reserve Bank report didn't discuss the prospects of putting some kind of controls on the NZ dollar."
And you make the good point that:
"Currency controls are not an option for New Zealand because it would be impossible for our Government to set the right exchange rate level and then support this against potential attack from US and European hedge funds."
Sure, but more effective monetary policy and appropriate tools would reduce the volatility markedly - and it's just the kind of thing that would have flowed from the inquiry which is the subject of this thread, but....
Oh no, not Francis, Rik and the boys again....
http://www.statusquo.co.uk/
Let's just bang those heads why don't we..... maybe we can even make the world a bit flatter......that's if we can pull our heads out of the sand (or elsewhere) for long enough that is.
Bernard, maybe this could be in your Top 10 at Ten for Monday, Brian G's article I mean.
Cheers, Les.
I do find it ironic
I do find it ironic that China (the economy in the strongest financial position presently) and Hong Kong (often touted as the most "free-market" economy in the world) both fix their exchange rates.
Doesn't this tell us something?
And to suggest NZ can't do anything about this - when our current PM is perhaps one of the world's leading 'minds' in terms of currency market trading - doesn't cut it for me.
in the days prior to
in the days prior to Iceland, well you know... It's leaders began squarking that speculative forces were undermining it's currency. In the days that followed Iceland's assets were frozen under the terrorism act by the UK so that the UK citizens, councils and pension funds which invested for attractiove interest rate could get their money back. But naturally this could not happen in NZ as you have a much larger population. Tui's anyone.
@Kate; "...one of the world’s
@Kate; "...one of the world's leading "˜minds' in terms of currency market trading". JK knows better than anyone how to take the kiwi apart.
http://aotearoaawiderperspective.wordpress.com/2008/08/04/john-key-and-t...
@janet - yes, exactly -
@janet - yes, exactly - which I would hope suggests he is also clever enough a trader to also know how to prevent such speculative manipulation/destruction. Otherwise, he's just another currency trader with a simple mind, able only to attack, but unable to defend.
The real intelligence in trading/commerce generally (IMO) lies in the ability to defend, or as Stephen Hulme has suggested - to protect capital in a volitile market. JK signed up for just that position when he ran for PM and so far, I don't see much of anything innovative or clever coming out of his Government's management of NZ's economy - despite my thinking he has the intelligence to do it.
If he doesn't do something soon to intervene in the fundamental structure of our economy in a positive way, I can only assume that his part to play in the successful attack on the dollar was just a one-hit-wonder by a mediocre mind, and a greedy opportunist prepared to sell out his own countrymen.
They're being piggy banks http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/256591
They're being piggy banks
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/2565911/They-re-being-piggy-banks
"As banks look forward to a future unmolested by parliament, figures collated by the Sunday Star-Times show they should consider themselves lucky.
Analysis of the latest information from bank disclosure statements, along with data for each quarter going back more than two years, suggests bank claims of falling margins are mostly hot air.
Using bank disclosure statements, the Star-Times calculated the gross margin for the five main banks in each quarter going back to December 2006. All, apart from ASB, showed a significant increase in margin in the latest two quarters to reach a level well above the two-year average ie, although interest income fell in the latest period, interest costs fell more.
What these numbers show is that some banks are exaggerating the effect of overseas funding costs and competition for retail deposits when it comes to keeping up their interest rates.
Analysis of WNZL's quarterly data shows robust profitability with record high net interest income of $393m in the March quarter as funding costs plummeted. The only blot was a big jump in impairment charges, which take account of bad loans, from $91m to $225m. Although this dragged bottom line profit to just $45m, it was still able to pay an interim dividend of $324m.
The issue ["not passing on lower funding costs to their customers"] led parliament's finance and expenditure select committee to consider holding an inquiry, spurred on by the Reserve Bank, which accused the banks of damaging the economy.
But on Wednesday the committee backed off an inquiry, much to the disgust of businesses in a survey released by the Manufacturers and Exporters Association on Thursday, 86% of respondents supported an inquiry."
Bernard, where has Tim Hunter gone wrong with his analysis and report?
Thanks for posting this, reading
Thanks for posting this, reading your blog I'm amazed how much time you have put into it.