Nobody understands debt
Nobel laureate economist Paul Krugman (a staunch Keynesian) thinks politicians are very confused about government debt. "For while debt can be a problem, the way our politicians and pundits think about debt is all wrong, and exaggerates the problem’s size."
o' oh
China's local governments have piled up a mountain of bad debt, some of it to finance bridges to nowhere and other white elephant projects, which now threatens to constrict growth at a time when the global economy is sputtering. It is adding to other systemic risks in China, including a sharp downturn in the property market and a rapid rise in problematic loans.
Don't tell me, show me
"Don't tell me where your priorities are. Show me where you spend your money and I'll tell you what they are."
James W. Frick
more below ...
| 8 am | --- 52 week -- | |||||||
| Today | Friday | high | low | |||||
| -------- | -------- | --------- | --------- | |||||
| FX rates | NZ$1=US$ | 0.7895 | 0.7709 | 0.8822 | 0.7174 | |||
| NZ$1=AU$ | 0.7617 | 0.7616 | 0.8085 | 0.7276 | ||||
| Gold | in US$/oz | 1,604 | 1,539 | 1,895 | 1,319 | |||
| in NZ$ | 2,031 | 1,996 | 2,314 | 1,705 | ||||
| Copper | in US$/t | 7,554 | 7,502 | 10,147 | 6,785 | |||
| in NZ$ | 9,568 | 9,731 | 13,507 | 8,299 | ||||
| Crude oil | in US$/bl | 102.90 | 99.61 | 118.70 | 89.69 | |||
| in NZ$ | 130.34 | 129.21 | 149.14 | 117.26 | ||||
| US Treasuries | 30 yr bond | 3.05% | 2.90% | 4.73% | 2.88% | |||
| Dow | DJIA 30 | 12,428 | 12,253 | 12,919 | 10,402 | |||
A banker talks
As the former head of Deutsche Bank, Hilmar Kopper was once the most powerful banker in Germany. In an interview with Spiegel, the 76-year-old takes stock of his career and the current crisis shaking Europe. The three main constants he has seen in the world, he says, are "money, avarice and greed."
Reversing course
The Reserve Bank of India has raised its key interest rate 13 times since March 2010 in a bid to control rising consumer prices. Now it is talking of reversing that policy to help preserve growth that suddenly seems fragile.
2012 gloom
And for those who feast on gloom, here is [another] tasty morsel from the UK's Ambrose Evans-Pritchard. Only a European could be this negative. Remember however that although pessimists are often right, it is the optimists who achieve everything worthwhile.
No chart with that title exists.
102 Comments
Remember however that although pessimists are often right, it is the optimists who achieve everything worthwhile.
Yes but it is also the optimists that do all the damage. Hitler seems pretty optimistic about forming the Third Reich.
But on the happiness theme did you see that famous DJ on the news a couple of nights ago, Irish I think. Anyway he said that Australians and New Zealanders are the happiest audiences in the world. So there we have it, we are officially a cheerful bunch of bastards.
It's actually Krugman who doesn't understand debt.
Also, plenty on Cafe Hayek about Krugman's false notions, and muddled thinking.
Evans-Prichard is always worth the effort to read
There could be gloomier predictions than his. At least with even part of his scenario coming true we would ll be out of this sooner rather than later. The pain is in the waiting for something to be resolved.
'Key Fairyland' is no place to be if this drags on.
- This is todays Must Read for Mathusians,dreamers,loony leftists,trolls,warmists,sustainability fanatics,enviro taleban, and Occupyists
The chamber has warned that a sustainable surplus can not be achieved without the creation of 200,000 jobs.
Australia has been warned to put profits before politics if it is to survive the battering the global economy is expected to take this year.
The Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry said that without profit growth, unemployment would surge, the Government would not achieve its promised budget surplus and businesses would not be able to meet higher electricity costs expected to flow from the new carbon tax. SAME FOR NZ
"With rising costs and downward forecasts, if a business is not making a profit in 2012 it's unlikely to be around for much of 2013," the chamber said in a preview of the year. SAME FOR NZ
The chamber said that after a disappointing year that had focused on wealth distribution instead of wealth creation, growth was needed in the economy's slower lane. EEEXACTLY !
"Unfortunately, 2012 carries the risk of rising business failures and higher unemployment due to lower global growth forecasts and increased business costs pencilled in from mid-year," it said.
"The Reserve Bank's two interest rate reductions in the past two months warn of tougher times ahead. This needs to be a year when making profits is greeted with a sigh of relief, not as a dirty word. AAAAABSOLUTELY
Making a profit and protecting the business bottom line will need to be the catch-cry in 2012." IN NZ TOO I HOPE
The chamber warned that the Government would not achieve a sustainable surplus in 2012-13 if tax receipts from business did not grow, and unemployment - already forecast to be 80,000 higher than last May's predictions - would not stop rising unless about 200,000 jobs were created during the year.
Without increased sales and rising profit margins, businesses would not be able to afford higher electricity costs from the July 1 introduction of the carbon tax, nor higher wage and penalty costs. E.G TAXING OUR WAY TO PROSPERITY
"Profits don't grow on trees," the chamber said. "They have to be made. Business, banks, governments, the Parliament, unions and the community each have a responsibility to support new wealth and new profits." THIS WILL BE NEWS TO SOME TROLLS HERE
Banks needed to provide access to capital and pass interest rates cuts on to business customers, governments needed to introduce integrated reforms - including industrial law reforms - and the federal Parliament should reject new business costs such as planned rises in the superannuation levy. Unions, it said, needed to resist making "exaggerated" bargaining demands.
Why is this a must read for your self-described 'loonies'?
Your post says that growth and profit is needed or the economy will tank, no? I think we all know that our ponzi banking system/economy needs constant growth or will collapse, no one who you deem as 'looney' is arguing this.
The point (which I take it you keep missing) of PDK and co. is that in the long-term, constant growth of the economy (or anything) is not possible due to physical resource constraints. Now I'm sure you're aware we live on a finite planet with physical limits. I'm sure you can understand that GDP is underwritten by energy and resource input. Peaking energy inputs/resources = peaking economies. If you have yet to understand any of this then you must have a poor understanding of the sciences and the physcial world .
The one post I agree with you on is that the carbon tax is b/s. Personally, I'd sooner see more effort to curb emissions.
David B: The ACCI is one of many lobby groups which issue press releases that are not highly regarded. The article in the NZ Herald is merely a re-work of the latest ACCI press release. It's not an interview. Trouble is, at the same time the BCA (Business Council of Australia) (another lobby group) is pressing (agitating) the Federal Government to increase the migration intake of tradesmen and other qualified workers. These two lobby groups are running counter to one-another. They cant both be right. And you dont see them advocating the government to encourage foreign businesses to come in set up shop on their turf.
Correlation between profits and unemployment = 50, that is to say no correlation at all, neither positive or negative. Record profits for the S&P500 companies this year, meanwhile according to shadow stats, unemployment is well over 20%, and the US economy is having FALLING employment.
Yeah the whole country should bend over in the name of corporate profits. My bet is buy lube.
well, USA unemployment is coming down a bit is it not?
I see your point, but we need to think of improving profitability byeond just the big corporates. Lot of small businesses out there struggling, turn around their profitability and they might just look to grow and employ more staff
The November figures showed modest improvement, but it depends if you trust the BLS. Here's a Gallup poll for comparison -
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/gallup-finds-unemployment-rises-fourth-week-row-cautions-bls-data
Unemployment is a BS figure. It only includes people who are activley seeking work. Which is why it is far easier to watch the trends in employment (aka labour force participation rate) which is falling. The lies are comming in thick and fast from all key data points relating to the economy, ie. Inflation, GDP, Unemployment. Reality has dissapeard into the Keynsian/Socialist/Centralist/Kleoptocratic Fungal Black Hole.
It may be true that companies making more profits do not necessarily employ more people - figures relating to the US' largest companies are of minimal relevance to New Zealand, where most employment is in small companies.
However, I cannot see how you can possibly argue that companies which don't make a profit are more likely to take on more workers.
Profitable companies can, but will not necessarily, expand and take on more workers. Even if they don't, they pay taxes and dividends. Where's the harm?
Unprofitable companies can't do any of that. Where's the benefit?
Just as it is the case in New Zealand, most Americans are employed by small to medium enterprises. In addition, the various branches of the State, Federal, City and County governments are also large employers. Most Americans are NOT employed by the S&P500. Your analogy and the conclusion you draw is utterly baseless.
Thats and idiotic suggestion, right up there with govt's need to make business more profitable. After the last few years, what idiot thinks the govt can a) make jobs b) force banks to lend at low interest rates c) force business to hire staff?
Just because you put jobs and profits in the same article does not mean they come together. Someone IS going to pay for the increased profits, and the banks are business too, so that leaves the rest of the community that isn't a business. Without any reason for the profits to turn into jobs, you'd have to be a mug to pay for that.
Hear, hear goNZ! An excellent and common sense analysis by the Australian Chamber of Commerce. It is a sad reflection on our own country that we so seldom see anything of its equal written here. The Aussies do and get a lot of things right, and the fruits of this shows up in their substantially greater wealth than ours. An article like this just reflects that, and the fact that, and I don't know how they did it, they are smarter than us.
You are absolutely right, this is exactly the sort of article that is a must read for Malthusians, dreamers, loony leftists, trolls, warmists, sustainability fanatics, enviro-taleban, and Occupyists. Might I however suggest an easier word that encapsulates and describes the whole lot?
Losers.
After reading your second little epistle, plutocracy, that old saying - “people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones” - even more firmly comes to mind! What was it that you were saying about playing the ball and not the man again, plutocracy? I think you would do well to learn your own lessons first before you presmue to lecture anybody else about them!
Krugman: So yes, debt matters. But right now, other things matter more. We need more, not less, government spending to get us out of our unemployment trap. And the wrongheaded, ill-informed obsession with debt is standing in the way.
Bush spent trillions, where did it get them?
Obama spent trillions, where has it got em?
Krugman forgets not only the short term history, but the fundamental rules of running any REAL economy. The aim is to minimize debt and maximise profit via...............exports, small government, less regulation and legislation, low taxes for those who work at the coal face of industry, and MOST importantly, an honest banking system with a real monetary system based on things that take real effort to create WITH real INDEPENDENT federal oversite.
Conclusion: Krugman is an idiot
The German Banker echoes what the poets were trying their best to tell us thirty years ago when they smelled something whiffy on the wind:
Well, God is in His heaven
And we all want what’s his
But power and greed and corruptible seed
Seem to be all that there is
I’m gazing out the window
Of the St. James Hotel
And I know no one can sing the blues
Like Blind Willie McTell
Bob Dylan, 1983
In the early 1800's, immigrants were spreading across America and establishing new settlements.
Back in those days everyone had the right set up a bank and so many thousands of banks were set up across America.
These banks issued their own banknotes and made many risky loans to the settlers.
Without these risky loans it would have taken America another generation or two to expand.
Many today, say these loans were a good thing, because it was these loans that enabled the continent to expand as rapidly as it did.
Was it a good thing?
What tends to get overlooked is that everytime a bank went broke someone lost their money. So it was the lenders who involintary financed this expansion.
The same is true today
Who is involuntary financing this mess when haircuts are taken?
So Mr Key, next time you borrow more money just remember
"The easy part is spending what you don't have, the hard part is paying it back."
"Ports of Auckland has suffered a further blow today with the news that Fonterra, the country's largest exporter, is set to withdraw its export shipments from Auckland amid ongoing strike action at the port."
As I posted last year, it beats me why PoA dont do a Qantas style full lockout to get the govts attention . Who is running this country - the govt or the unions ?
This type of thing is just another example of the lack of competivness in our major city. Almost all costs are higher - wages, land & buildings plus real issues with transport and utilities bottle necks. What a fricken mess!
Watch out the rest of NZ, with the largest voting block you will be forced to subsidise this ongoing disaster.
Who is running this country - the govt or the unions ?
I have not seen much evidence of the Govt running the country in recent times.
Certainly no evidence of trying to correct the property ponzi scheme. In fact Key endorses it.
No evidence of trying to correct the overseas imbalances either.
Things like the above will give Labour fertile ground to work on in 2012.
Fontera have every right to use whatever means to export product. While the unions are not blameless, so neither are the POA management. It takes two to tango.
Things like the above will give Labour fertile ground to work on in 2012.
If (and its a big if) Labour can sort themselves out into a credible party, then they have a chance of winning the next election. Because the economy is going to get uglier, and National will have to introduce austerity to some degree in the next two years. And there will be a backlash.
If not, there are some other flavours to vote for, NZ First, Green, Leagalis Cannibis etc. Key will sell the assets, netting some juicy commisions for Goldman Sachs et al. Having done his job, he will move back to the parasite sector, BIS/IMF/WB or something similar.
Who is running this country - the govt or the unions ?
I have not seen much evidence of the Govt running the country in recent times.
Certainly no evidence of trying to correct the property ponzi scheme. In fact Key endorses it.
No evidence of trying to correct the overseas imbalances either.
Lax immigration policies that see quality NZ workers leaving to be replaced by those with poor or no english and doubtfull employment status except to clutter our already stretched housing and health loads
Things like the above will give Labour fertile ground to work on in 2012.
Fontera have every right to use whatever means to export product. While the unions are not blameless, so neither are the POA management. It takes two to tango.
This was a goodie from The Herald on New Years day!
2012 - what you can be sure of....
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10776170
:-)
and an interesting bit of triv, seeing as we are holidays mode. It turns out the monopoly was originally a pro-land tax / anti-rent game to teach kids a lesson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Landlord%27s_Game
"Governments of the world’s leading economies have more than $7.6 trillion of debt maturing this year, with most facing a rise in borrowing costs"...is that all....phut...tis nothing.
"An area of central Christchurch is pushing for lightweight structures as a less expensive and ''more sensible" way to rebuild parts of the earthquake-ravaged city".stuff.co
So what's wrong with a Yurt....
"Less expensive" will not go down well with council cash grab based on cost...oh dear.
And it will not be good news for Bill who wants all the gst he can harvest....otherwise he might be forced to trim the landlords subsidy...or heaven forbid reduce Sir Humphrey's bonus.
Carbon Sense boys in Oz have some useful things to say - some bed time reading for the trolls on this blogsite follows
Australia and New Zealand should follow Canada and immediately withdraw from the failed Kyoto Protocol.
With Canada deciding to cut and run, no country in the Americas bears Kyoto liabilities. And with the announcement by Japan that it will not renew its membership, there will be no Kyoto bunnies in Asia. It is time for the two lonely suckers in the South Pacific to also withdraw.
Kyoto has achieved nothing useful. Some countries such as Russia achieved fraudulent cuts by retrospectively choosing their base year to take advantage of the plant closures that followed the Soviet collapse. Others evaded real cuts by paying for often phantom cuts in other countries. Australia used larceny to seize carbon credits by banning regrowth clearing on private farmland. New Zealand is sacrificing their forestry industry on the Kyoto altar.
Europe's worship of Kyoto has led them into their current fiscal mess. Believing they are gods who can control the climate by demonising carbon, they have spent a fortune on green energy, carbon trading and international junkets that has exacerbated their deficits and now condemns their industry and consumers to expensive and unreliable energy.
The future for Australia and New Zealand lies around the vibrant Pacific, not in the backwater of Old Europe. We should immediately abandon Kyoto, cease wasting money on the IPCC, abolish all climate change bureaucracies and repeal all carbon tax and trade legislation.
The money saved should be used to develop appropriate infrastructure to cope with the inevitable natural disasters whenever they occur.
Peaks and turning points are only obvious to most people in retrospect. Looking back from December 2011 we can see clearly that climate alarmism peaked at the Copenhagen Climate
Cockup in late 2009. The nails were driven into the coffin by India, China and others at the more subdued Climate Wake in Durban in late 2011. These sensible countries got settlement on a vacuous statement that agrees to keep holding the Climate Parties for a few more years as long as nothing onerous is actually agreed. Last week Canada put the last shot into the dead horse by announcing its withdrawal from the Kyoto Foolishness.
But the real war in Australia will now intensify, mainly in back rooms as the plotters scheme to keep carbon tax, green energy subsidies and all the climate bureaucracies alive and on the law books.
Their main strategy in Australia will be to keep the carbon tax out of the headlines. They will try to maintain the myth that “the debate is over”. Our strategy is “never let people forget”.
We will be helped by the gathering scandal in UK about the BBC bias in acting as the megaphone for the climate alarmists and the apparent connivance of the US Department of Energy in hiding data to prevent sceptics from discovering dodgy climate research. The ABC will be watching the exposure of their ideological brothers in the BBC and they and their fellow alarmists may start to give token platforms to sceptical ideas. Non- government media are certainly awake to the extent and cost of the fraud.
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4] The noun troll may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted".
More info from Oz on the climate crazies -
What Really Happened in Durban?
What the media are not telling you
"We redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy...Basically it's a big mistake to discuss climate policy separately from the major themes of globalization...One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore."
Ottmar Edenhoffer, high level UN-IPCC official.
Australia’s Greg Combet was played for a fool in Durban. He and the Kiwis followed the loony greens now running Old Europe. Their day is past. Old Europe has abandoned rationality and their current leaders care more for their green religion and their dreams of world government than for the welfare of their own people. The failure of their economic and energy policies is on display daily.
The European climate crazies were comprehensively outsmarted by the BASIC Group (Brazil, South Africa, India and China). The Europeans want to continue penalising their people with expensive and unreliable energy. So the Basic Group humoured them by agreeing to let the Europeans keep penalising their people. The Europhiles of the Pacific, Australia and New Zealand, picked the wrong side yet again, and have also chosen to keep penalising their people.
The US, Japan and Russia were bemused bystanders, happy to allow the Europeans to flagellate themselves. Canada kept quiet and dropped their withdrawal bombshell after getting home. Australia postponed the Kyoto costs so far by dispossessing Australian farmers with scrub-clearing bans. That trick will not work twice. When we have to fork over billions of real dollars (the prospect that Canada faced), hopefully sanity or an election will occur.
If anyone has any illusions on what the UN bureaucrats have in store for us they should read the report by Christopher Monckton on their 138 page document detailing how they will govern the world. It includes plans for:
- A new international climate court
- Rights for Mother Earth
- The right to survive (climate change) at our expense.
- Total disarmament (apart from UN forces no doubt) and the end of war.
- New dreamtime targets for world temperature, emissions and carbon dioxide content.
- Historic responsibility ie the west will pay for everything.
- World government with everyone reporting to the UN bureaucracy. (e.g Miss H Clark ???! )
- A green climate fund (supplied by us of course).
- World-wide cap and trade.
- Technology transfer to be aided by abolition of patents and intellectual property rights.
- Taxes on shipping and aviation fuels (going to the UN of course).
- Equitable access to global atmospheric space
In case you think this is all make-believe, have a look at Christopher Monckton’s report here: http://nzclimatescience.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=806&Itemid=1
Letter in The Australian
The climate cultists will resist deprogramming to the bitter end. They have a mental health issue. Expect to be attacked GONZ like I have been.
And the real issues are .........?
Let me help you.
- not one UN IPCC prediction has come true
- there is nothing unusual about the climate as we have slowly emerged from the little ice age
- NZ's climate data was manipulated by Salinger and used as the basis for the ETS. Salinger will be "explaining" himself in a courtroom later this year.
- govt's around the world locked into Kyoto face crippling costs as their economies tank, for no useful outcome.
- the very mild warming over the past 300 years is beneficial to humanity and along with the increase in CO2 has contributed to food security
I suggest you read the letter in The Australian - link posted above.
Pointless. Nothing to do with financial issues. Have seen this topic destroy many forums. If you want to get into a lengthy discussion on this topic go here and join the fray. http://groups.google.com/group/aus.invest/topics Single finance forum taken over by the various CO2 and global warming factions. Single thread. Years and Years of archives to research. Keep you busy.
Currently 47,000 posts and counting.
Absolutely wrong. This has everything to do with financial matters. Where's the money coming from?
Simon Terry: Carbon books reveal shocking gaps
How far off the Government's own emissions targets New Zealand is: tens of billions of dollars in payments overseas will be required to bridge the gap unless the Government gets serious about cutting emissions.
First the secrecy. Governments are legally required to provide an update of the nation's financial position just before elections but those accounts do not recognise carbon obligations until they are in an international agreement, hence there is nothing concrete on the books until after 2012.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/environment/news/article.cfm?c_id=39&objectid=10771132
A scam based on flawed science. How deep are your pockets? This will bankrupt the country.
No, he's right. There are three separate questions here, and the one you are arguing about is not the financial one.
The first: Is human activity having an adverse impact on the world's climate? That is a scientific question, not a political or economic one.
The second question comes into play if you answer "yes" to the first question: Should we do something about it? That is a political question.
The third comes into play if you answer "yes" to the second: What is the most efficient way of doing something about it? That is the financial/economic question.
Your argument, that the money being spent on emissions reductions is wasted because there is no such thing as anthropogenic climate change (ACC), is a dangerous one. It means that either you are saying that no amount of scientific evidence can ever convince you of ACC, which would indicate that you are not a rational person; or that you are saying that you will agree that the money being spent on climate change is worthwhile, if the scientific evidence does emerge to prove ACC. Which is it?
Very simple, produce the evidence. No matter which way you cut it the climategate emails, and unlike you, I have read them, clearly show the promotors of catastrophic man made global warming
1/ havent got the evidence of a man made signal for warming
2/ have indulged in disgraceful anti scientific method and professional conduct
3/ harbour severe doubts themselves
Watermelons are the useful idiots for the Enron type scammers out there looking to exploit public ignorance. These same watermelons are also revelling in the prospect of bringing down the capitalist system.
I will watch this from afar as planes loaded with NZ's brightest and best head for saner pastures. I would remind them Canada is an easy alternative to Australia.
Frankly NZ's prospects look grim.
OMG, your climate denial link is a joke, not surprising coming from a right wing flake.
Your climate denialist mate's letter to the editor begins with the tired old discredited claim about volcanoes producing more co2 than human activity:
"Why didn't he declare that there are some 1500 terrestrial volcanoes that emit small amounts of carbon dioxide, yet there are more than three million submarine volcanoes that emit huge amounts of carbon dioxide?"
This is knocked down by the basic science:
"Annual anthropogenic CO2 emissions exceed annual volcanic CO2 by two orders of magnitude, and probably exceed the CO2 output of one or more super-eruptions***. Thus there is no scientific basis for using volcanic CO2 emissions as an excuse for failing to manage humanity’s carbon footprint."
A link to the relevant research.
That includes submarine volcanoes. This scientific information is so readily available that you and your Climate Denialist mates can only be deliberately lying, I can't believe anyone could be that ignorant and stupid.
So why the lies, OMG?
To pick another one from the letter:
"Ice core measurements show that after natural warming events, atmospheric carbon dioxide increases 800 years later."
Reply:
"This is an issue that is often misunderstood in the public sphere and media, so it is worth spending some time to explain it and clarify it...So, in summary, the lag of CO2 behind temperature doesn’t tell us much about global warming. [But it may give us a very interesting clue about why CO2 rises at the ends of ice ages. The 800-year lag is about the amount of time required to flush out the deep ocean through natural ocean currents... "
And on the letter goes with more Climate Denialist lies.
The right wing OMG raves on about being attacked by 'climate cultists'.
The fact is OMG is a member of the Climate Denialist Cult, regurgitating the same tired old propaganda.
Well, I'll ignore the childish insults (btw your links are a joke), but why just stop at me when you could be abusing thousands more?
Do you believe scientists' warnings over climate change-related extreme weather? Yes 15069 votes, 32.6% No 31134 votes, 67.4% Total 46203 votes
I just found the poll here
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4834615/Scientists-give-chilling-warnings-on-climate
Mate, how many of the lay public are scientifically trained or even understand the scientific process? Not many I dear say.
That is why it is the opinion of scientists that matter, and not the lay public. Currently most of the scientific data is in support of anthropogenic climate change. Perhaps you should get yourself a PhD, conduct some research, submit it for peer review, and if it stands up to scrutiny then maybe you'll win some more people over.
This is the shortest, and most easily read explanation of how the "new, new, normal" sovereign debt > bank > central bank financing system works. WITHOUT real market participation!
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/would-ponzi-any-other-name-smell-bad
And to quote a comment on ZH
The snap back from this mother fcking bllshit is gonna rip people's heads straight off of their bodies. God, this is gonna be a bloody mess before its all done.
Wanna guess when it'll start!
"Tuesday warning that Iran would unleash its "full force" if a US carrier is redeployed to the Gulf.
"We don't have the intention of repeating our warning, and we warn only once," Brigadier General Ataollah Salehi, the armed forces chief, said as he told Washington to keep its carrier away."
ReaDY....READY...STEADY NOW CHAPS...
(Reuters) - European governments have agreed in principle to ban imports of Iranian oil, EU diplomats said Wednesday, dealing a potentially heavy blow to Tehran that crowns new Western economic sanctions imposing real pain just months before an Iranian election.
FIRE
Here is a detailed list of their full force. Mostly ship busting missiles.
It stated that despite Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei's statements that Tehran would not initiate a military confrontation but would retaliate harshly if attacked, "there is no guarantee that [Tehran] will not launch a preemptory strike on the civilian level, for instance through cyber-warfare or by means of economic pressure, including by closing the Strait of Hormuz and cutting off [this] energy lifeline for an indefinite period of time." It added, "Should additional sanctions be imposed on Iran, especially in the domain of oil export, Iran might keep [its] oil from leaving its territorial waters."
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/iran-outlines-key-steps-and-actors-potential-straits-hormuz-closure
"If the world wants to make the regeon insecure, we will make the world insecure"
Yes they will murder to achieve their internal political goals...and Obama will react if it is in his political interests to do so...
Leaves us with one conclusion......the entire Iranian military structure from the smallest piece of filth to the largest pile of weapons everywhere in iran...the whole lot will be incinerated and turned into rubble....yes there will be civilian deaths on both sides because the mad mullah will strike out at tankers to prove what a great nation they are...
Once it starts, I trust Obama will have the guts to see it through to the end and not weaken as soon as the poodle media scream about how awaful it all is...
World War III ?
Last Month, Major General Zhang Zhaozhong, professor from the Chinese National Defense University, said China would not hesitate to protect the Islamic Republic against a military strike, even if this means the start of the Third World War.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/218815.html
The question is can the world take that risk ? Iran isn’t just geographically a very important place. There is a lot of sabre- rattling going on right now. Hopefully the political leaders are for once wise enough and beware us, the world from a catastrophic event.
Anyway - this is a development the world doesn’t need – the consequences will have severe implications on world economies, financial markets and societies will become much poorer.
Sad to read the above.
South-paw - left/right is an obsolete concept now. To keep playing that game, is to play a loser. In a finite world, with finite opportunities now, the only game in town is displacement.
The selling-off of energy is a classic example: everyone currently :) benefits, but the 'investors' will subsequently benefit at the expense of the 'clients. Means that the rich will benefit at the expense of the poor, in a zero-sum game. Ironically, the 'rich' fail to see that the blood in the 'poor' stone will have dried up.............
Stand back, and try to see the big picture. Left and right were about who got how much of the cake - we have now run into the fact that the cake is unable to continue delivering.
One can assume that altruism and caring will morph, but it has to be in the direction of a sustainable community (whatever the scale).
The timetable for this forced morph is less than a decade. Time a leader emerged who articulated this clearly.
It will be an interesting process, education the public to the truth of the matter - one has to eliminat the Gonzos and the Omg's and the PB's on the way.
If you don't know what I'm on about yet, get in touch via my blog.
Crikey , and you think you know some guys ! ...... PDK left me out of his hit list , those to be eliminat'd ........
...... I shall sulk now ( note to self , must try harder to be an anti-Malthusian , anti-gloomsteriser ) ......
Who the Sam Hill was it that gave the terms " gloomster " and " gloomsterisation " to this site ? .. moi !
.. the least PDK could do is remember that , and place the Gummster alongside his kin , goNZ , PhilBest & OMG for the elimination process .
.. David B missed the cut , too . ..... He'll be ratty !
Is any one individual from PDK's own family or his group of friend ( steven ) to be " eliminated " ? ...
.... or will he just exterminate the people to hack him off by attacking his histrionic & illogical belief system ...... that should come to 5 billion folks , more or less ..
GBH, yet again it seems the ppl who cant think shoot the messenger...
When we eat 10 to 30 calories of oil for one edible calorie, and we are flat on oil production yet the population is growing, just where does teh food come from?
Are you that blinkered taht you cant see that this cant end well?
regards
GBH - I left you off the list because you're a follower.
Those mentioned are 'vested interest lobbyists', and as such, have to accept responsibility.
Legally - and sooner or later we will end up in the courts, on behalf of the future - ignorance is no excuse. (If we don't end up in the courts, it can only be because society has disintegrated beyond having them...........)
I can point to many times that I've made the offer to those folk, to become less ignorant. Note: I'm not saying they have to agree with me, just that they have to arrive at an informed decision/point of view.
There may be a valid excuse. It is often discussed in my circles, that evolution may not have favoured the cranial ability to understand the exponential function. While per second/per second acceleration applies to throwing a spear, the action probably only needed linear cognitive thinking. The rest may have been subliminal hand-eye stuff. If I were them (or if I were John Key), I'd start briefing my lawyer.
It's the only way to satisfactorily explain the belief in growth forever, without accepting that the spinmeisters knowingly lie.
When you think about it - the only need for spinmeisters is that they are up against limits. Their very existence belies their message.
It seems tit-for-tat that you claim they lie , when they also claim that it is you , who lies....
.... .. so the guys whose message you disagree with are " spinmeisters " ....... but you , pushing your agenda , aren't labelled equally as a " spinmeister " .......
Why is that ?
Positive attitude very important.
I do understand Roger (Gummy). In today’s world it isn’t easy to stay positive. As I mentioned many times worldwide negative events are accumulating and accelerating fast. A political escalation would be catastrophic, but also a personal trend in negativity of families/ community/ societies.
.... in point of fact Walter , today's worldwide situation is not a whole lot different from any era of the past . And if you choose to look for things so scarey that you poop your nappies , you will find them ....... they are there .
As a counter , if you choose to find things to gladden the cockles of your Swiss heart , you will find them too . The real world changes , and not in the lineal fashion that PDK & steven require for their arguments ....... innovation and advances come in fits & spurts .....
..... you wake up one day , and suddenly there's this thing called " internet " , sometime later " facebook " hoves into view . ........ personal DNA testing kits will be affordable to all of us soon ! ........
Humanity's collective brainpower has not decreased over the years , we're getting smarter , not dumberer .
Look for the good , Walter ..... but be aware of the bad , too .
.... in point of fact Walter , today's worldwide situation is not a whole lot different from any era of the past .
Roger – correct until now for the majority of us it is not, because especially for the BB generation life is great and we don’t know otherwise. The worldwide situation is in fact changed on many fronts, but the consequences are still not really recognisable within societies. This will in my opinion change dramatically.
As I wrote earlier in 2011 the world became aware of the many problems. In 2012 we will experience the first far reaching cause and effects. What I often miss on your comments Roger is the inability of reading the signs of the time or is it just to protect us “Gloom and Doom” people from becoming crazy ? Don’t worry Roger I’m already there - a long time ago.
GBH - you miss the point.
They are 'vested interest'.
I've been a 'seeker of truth', no vested interest in sight.
So, I have no agenda, except that once you get to the 'truth', it seems a good idea to inform others.
The simple truth is that physics deals with the real, and finance deals with a man-made, and very recent, construct. Finance has never been disengaged from the physical, for the simple reason that money is expected to 'buy something' sooner or later.
That construct worked on the way up (it's impossible that a construct could have been evolved to do anything else, at the time). It's equally true that said construct would be in permanrent trouble the moment the physical couldn't underwrite growth anymore.
It doesn't take much intelligence to work that out.
WOOHOO! My first ever death threat! PDK let's not waste this moment. How about we do it in public either in Gladiator style, or better still as a "Celebrity Death Match"
I'll call myself Pragmatic Realist and you can call yourself Carbon Footprint Virgin
Suggested weapon, rain guages at 50 paces.
Steven can use his SUV as an ambulance to take you away.
Thank you for making my day!
You're talking about the biggest terrorist nation on the planet. 9/11 was defence, not attack.
Obama will have a convenient incident which will allow him to invade Iran, pre election. Iran clearly knows it.
They've got oil, and it'll be popular with all but the relatives of those who come home in body-bags (they'll be out-voted...)
Odd thing about the American psyche in my experience is that the relatives of those killed, and the relatives of those who come home with non-fatal (yet life changing) scars seem to become even more convinced of the rightiousness of the global US-led military complex. Bearing in mind, most of these parents never served themselves, nor in most cases did their parents - so that's two generations of Americans which developed this patriotism during times of low US involvement in direct hand-to-hand combat.
The affected sons and daughters (i.e. those returning from Iraq and Afghan War Zones), are quite the opposite, but their parents often remain staunchly (if not obsessively) patriotic.
Similarly, Willie Apiata reflects the same attitude of these affected sons and daughters;
The war business? He confesses he sees no end to wars and mankind killing fellow human beings.
"You just look back through history. Conflict is a thing we do as humans. That disappoints me because of our children, the next generation. That's what we're raising our children in the world for. This is the world they're going to live in."
Is that not a matter of enormous concern, even to a man of the military like Apiata? The 39-year-old nods, a frown writ large upon his face.
"My biggest fear is, I don't want him to be a soldier, to be like this. You have to put that memory of children aside so you can go out and focus on the job because you need to be clear. If you're not clear in your mind, you're a liability and a weakness in the crew. You can't be that.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10776252
I think you are very probably wrong on Iran....at least in Obama's wish to invade it......once he's removed then, yes I suspect a Republican will invade inside 12mnths of taking office......
Yet more dead ppl and especially the locals and the poor of america who join up....
and its not so much the oil, Iran has "spare" gas I think, oil output is declining. They are struggling to keep up the oil output, even swapping cars en-mass to n gas. I cant see the Iranians lying down and taking it, Iraq wanted to be free of Saddam....this will be yet another vietnam for the US when they go in, Iranians I think consider they have a govn of thier choice....so it will be a bitter occupation.......and I wonder who will go along? Blare has gone.....Europe? hmmm not sure....
Once we see a Republican in the white house and its 1 or 5 years away Im sure they will invade, indeed anyone who has the oil is possible IMHO.e
regards
You really don't know anything about history do you. I have posted before on how the US forced Japans hand by cutting off their supply of minerals. Yamamoto was no fool and studied at Harvard, his plans to fight the US to a stalemate was a close run thing that came down to hours at the battle of midway. All they wanted was the US to open up access to supplies again. It is the same reason they invaded China and the same reason they continue to hunt Whales.
RESOURCES!
Why you and your friends concentrate on trying to debunk global warming you miss the real issue.
A little knowledge is what Scarfie?
"A valuable ally during World War I, the European powers and the United States recognized Japan as a colonial power after the war. In Japan, this led to the rise of ultra-right wing and nationalist leaders, such as Fumimaro Konoe and Sadao Araki, who advocated uniting Asia under the rule of the emperor. Known as hakkô ichiu, this philosophy gained ground during the 1920s and 1930s as Japan needed increasingly more natural resources to support its industrial growth. With the onset of the Great Depression, Japan moved towards a fascist system with the army exerting growing influence over the emperor and government.
To keep the economy growing, an emphasis was placed on arms and weapons production with much of the raw materials coming from the United States. Rather than continue this dependence on foreign materials, the Japanese decided to seek out resource-rich colonies to supplement their existing possessions in Korea and Formosa."
http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/worldwarii/a/wwiipaccauses.htm
So you see, maybe with more facts on the table it is easiere to spot the cause.
Gonzo - if you weren't spinning, I'd call you a fool.
I was at Pearl Harbour last month, but you can say that about any fallen combatant from anywhere, anytime.
Only 2400 Americans died in the PH attack - 60,000 in Vietnam, 300,000 total in WW2, and 1.3 million in WW1.
Get your proportions right; what did the 1.3 million die for, again? The moment Woodrow Wilson stuffed up at Versailles, nothing.
And whether we would have been conquered or not, doesn't impact on the truth of Scarfie's comment - it was all about resources. Lebensraum for herrenvolk, the Greater Co-Prospherity Sphere, Oil in the Causacas, it's all about resources.
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