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The New Zealand Tax Podcast: Clarity about the the 39% trustee rate, and the timeline restoring interest deductibility for residential investment. But Inland Revenue doesn’t consider the removal of building depreciation “fair and efficient”

Public Policy / analysis
The New Zealand Tax Podcast: Clarity about the the 39% trustee rate, and the timeline restoring interest deductibility for residential investment. But Inland Revenue doesn’t consider the removal of building depreciation “fair and efficient”
fair & efficient, or unfair & inefficient


It's been a busy week in tax, beginning on Sunday when the Associate Minister of Finance, David Seymour, announced that interest deductions for residential properties would be restored to 80% deductibility from 1st April.

There had been a proposal under the Coalition Agreement for the present 50% deductibility in in the current tax year to increase to 60% with backdated effect, but that has now been dropped. The Minister also confirmed interest on residential investment property will become fully deductible with effect from 1st April 2025, in line with the Coalition Agreement.

Interest deductibility “Yeah, Nah”

The announcement reignited a long running debate over the fairness of the measure restricting interest deductibility. The crux of the argument against it being that businesses are allowed to deduct their costs when deriving income, and the change made to restrict interest deductibility by the last government was contrary to standard business and tax practice.

But when you consider this point keep in mind that under the Income Tax Act, expenses are deductible to the extent to which they are incurred in deriving gross income or to the extent they're incurred in the course of carrying on a business deriving accessible income.

“The extent to which” is the key phrase and the argument around non deductibility revolves around the fact that the economic return for landlords comprises of fully taxable rental income, and a capital gain which is largely tax free. But legislation generally has ignored this point of possible apportionment between what is taxable income and non-taxable capital income. This leads on to the never-ending debate as to whether we should tax capital gains. And so the argument of deductibility is just another continuation of this question.

It's also worth noting that businesses with overseas owners are subject to the thin capitalisation regime. This also restricts interest deductions where the New Zealand company’s debt to asset ratio exceeds 60%. Now this measure also contradicts standard tax and business practice, but it’s part of many jurisdictions around the world as a means of countering the risk of excessive interest charges transfer pricing money out of the country. In other words, there are arguments for and against restricting interest deductibility.

Improving the position of renters

On Thursday, the Minister of Revenue released an Amendment Paper for the current tax bill along with five Regulatory Impact Statements two of which covered the restoration of interest deductibility and the reduction of the bright-line test period to two years. There was some interesting commentary by Treasury in both impact statements noting:

“Rental affordability is a significant issue in New Zealand. Based on Household Economic Survey data for the year ended June 2022, a quarter of renting households were spending over 40% of their disposable income on rent housing, and rents have risen faster than mortgage payments. Renters also have higher rates of reporting housing issues like dampness, mould and heating.”

Treasury, Inland Revenue and the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development all agreed that restoring interest deductibility should have a long-term effect of putting downward pressure on rents, but ‘should’ is doing a lot of work in this space. Other measures are going to be needed to improve rental affordability.

But restoring interest deductibility has the benefits of simplifying matters. Restricting deductibility was an imperfect measure, with a great deal of complexity and arguably went too far in the other direction of apportioning expenses relating to the split between taxable and non-taxable income.

Trustee tax rate increase to 39% confirmed subject to $10,000 exemption

The announcement on interest deductibility was followed on Monday by the Finance and Expenditure Committee (the FEC) reporting back on the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023-24, Multinational Tax and Remedial Matters) Bill. There's a great deal of interest around this Bill as it included the proposed increase in the trustee tax rate to 39%.

As had been hinted by Finance Minister Nicola Willis a couple of weeks back, there is going to be a de-minimis introduced for trusts with trustee income (undistributed income) of $10,000 or less. Such trusts will continue to have the 33% trustee rate apply to trustee income. However, for all trusts where the trustee income exceeds $10,000, a flat rate of 39% will apply.  Therefore, if there’s $10,000 of trustee income the 33% rate applies but if it's $10,001 the new 39% rate will apply on everything. It's not the first $10,000 is taxed at 33% and the excess at 39%. It's an all or nothing.

The FEC justified introducing the de-minimis exemption on the basis that the information it had received was that the compliance costs for many trusts were in the region of between $750 and $1,000 per annum. Therefore, the potential $600 benefit of a $10,000 threshold would be swallowed up by compliance costs, which is a fair point. But the reaction among my colleagues and myself is that the $10,000 threshold, although welcome is too low because, by the FEC's own logic, something closer to $25,000 could easily have been justified.

It's worth noting that the compliance costs for trusts have increased substantially in the last couple of years. Firstly, following the Trusts Act 2019 coming into force. And then secondly, Inland Revenue’s greater disclosure requirement for the March 2022 year onwards. By the way, we have seen nothing about those greater disclosure requirements being dialled back by Inland Revenue now there is the 39% tax rate in place. Back in 2021 part of the argument for not increasing the trustee rate to 39% at the same time as the individual tax rate went to 39% was to allow Inland Revenue to gather data on whether there was substantial amount of potential income sheltering through trusts. That theory seems to have been ditched for the moment.

Energy Consumer and deceased estates remain at 33%

Separately the FEC confirmed that the trustee rate for energy consumer trusts would remain at 33%. It also made changes to the treatment of deceased estates following submissions. A flat rate of 33%, will apply to all deceased estates rather than the deceased persons personal tax rate as originally proposed. More importantly, the trustee rate of 33% will now apply for the year of the person's death and three subsequent income years. That was in the in the wake of many submissions pointing out that deceased estates typically don't get wound up inside 12 months. These changes are welcome.

The Bill also covered off a number of amendments to other key topics, including the introduction of the global anti base erosion rules, the taxation of backdated lump sum payments for ACC and social welfare, rollover relief in respect of bright-line property disposals and relief under the bright-line tests for people affected by the Nelson floods.

Those global anti avoidance rules will take effect in two parts, the so-called income inclusion rule with effect from 1st January 2025 and then the ‘domestic income inclusion rule from 1st January 2026. This is a little later than the rest of the OECD and the intention is to give the affected multinational enterprise entities (those with consolidated revenue above €750 million per annum) time to get ready.

Inland Revenue recommended against removing building depreciation

On Thursday the Minister of Revenue published an Amendment Paper containing details of the proposals regarding the restoration of interest deductibility for residential investment properties, replacing the current five and ten year bright-line tests with a two year bright-line test period, removing the ability to depreciate commercial buildings and introducing a new Casino Gaming Duty. The Amendment Paper was accompanied by a detailed commentary .  and, as I mentioned earlier, the relevant Regulatory Impact Statements. Now as usual, these Regulatory Impact Statements (RIS) contain some interesting reading.

The ability to depreciate commercial buildings is being removed in order to help pay for the Coalition Government’s tax package. However, in the relevant RIS Inland Revenue recommended recommends retaining the status quo and that “the Government reconsider introducing commercial and industrial building depreciation when fiscal conditions allow.”

Citing its last Long-Term Insights Briefing Inland Revenue noted that in paragraphs 19 and 20 of the RIS, that under some assumptions made by the OECD:

“…New Zealand was likely to have had the highest hurdle rate of return for investment in and industrial buildings for the 38 countries in the OECD. This was when New Zealand allowed 2% depreciation on these buildings. Denying depreciation deductions will drive up these hurdle rates of returns even higher and make New Zealand a less attractive location for investment.

This tax distortion does not only impact building owners. To the extent the additional cost is passed on and there is less investment, it also impacts any business that needs to use a building and the customers of such a business. It thereby negatively impacts productivity more generally.”

Inland Revenue conclude in paragraph 32 of the RIS:

“We do not consider the removal of building depreciation to be a fair and efficient way of raising revenue. We are particularly concerned about the efficiency impacts which will make New Zealand even more of an outlier in pushing up cost of capital for commercial and industrial buildings. We therefore recommend retention of the status quo. We note this RIS is not evaluating the merits of the Government's tax package as a whole.”

So, why is the Coalition Government withdrawing building depreciation? Because doing so is worth $2.31 billion over four years which was understood before the election. Even so it's fairly interesting and unusual to see such a blunt assessment.

A new Gaming Duty

National’s Election policy included a new online gaming duty which was expected to raise something like $700 million over a four-year period. I was one of the those who was a bit sceptical about the revenue forecast. And it transpires that the numbers were indeed a bit optimistic.

What is now being proposed is a new 12% gaming duty for online offshore casino websites and this is in addition to GST, which is already payable when gambling on offshore sites. This new duty would be in line with how some other countries tax offshore casino websites. It's estimated to collect $35 million of additional tax revenue in the forthcoming year ended 30th June 2025 and expected to grow by 5% each subsequent year. This still leaves a gap of about $500 million over four-years in the original revenue forecasts.

The Budget in May is becoming more and more interesting for finding out how the Government will follow through on its commitment to increase personal income tax thresholds. Even though they won’t compensate for the effect of inflation since 2010 those threshold adjustments come at a substantial cost. I could see that further cost reductions may be imposed further down the track. Those are political matters which we'll have to wait and see how they work out.

Foreshadowing a capital gains tax?

Some commentary in the bright-line RIS raised the prospect of a capital gains tax. Treasury, for example, proposed a 20-year bright-line test or longer as it

“…would capture more capital gains, thereby improving the fairness of the tax system and supporting more sustainable house prices.”

Inland Revenue meantime felt the 10-year bright-line test was not an efficient way of taxing capital income before adding “If the government wanted to tax the income, it would be preferable to have a tax on these gains, irrespective of when the assets were sold.”  It’s interesting to see Treasury and Inland Revenue raising the bogeyman of a capital gains tax to address funding and fairness issues within the tax system.

And on that note, that's all for this week, I’m Terry Baucher and you can find this podcast on my website www.baucher.tax or wherever you get your podcasts.  Thank you for listening and please send me your feedback and tell your friends and clients.  

As-salamu alaykum. Peace be upon you and peace be upon all of us.”

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62 Comments

What actual income would a trust have that cannot be assigned in other ways? investment can be in PIE's, business income can be through a company?

Sale of property is the only thing I can think of, but capital gain is tax free ?

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Most substantial NZ owned businesses have trusts as shareholders. Businesses in NZ pay a company tax rate of 28%. When businesses pay a dividend, imputation credits are attached to it for tax already paid. Trusts that own these businesses then have to pay the difference which use to be 5% (33-28%). It is now going to be 11% (39%-28%). In some respects this makes the defacto tax rate for kiwi owned SME businesses 39%.

This is why the country is going to the dogs. Landlords pay no tax, multinationals pay not tax. Everything falls on income earners & SME's. In effect National and Act are quietly increasing the tax on SME's to pay for their  landlord tax deductions.  National & Act are not the pro business party they are the party for landlords. 

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What is the reason that most substantial NZ owned business have trusts as shareholders?

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To protect your assets. The same reason I own my family home with a trust. If I die. I don't want my presumably emotionally vulnerable wife shacking up with some loser for a couple of years and him taking half of our hard earned money. I want this to go to my kids.

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I hope your wife is not an Interest.co.nz reader!! But all savvy investors always transfer our income to an entity that pays the least tax. Not rocket science. 

And the problem with capital gains tax is that it is not fair to tax money that the owners of the money have not got yet. If it is taxed upon realisation of any financial gain, then that is probably okay with anybody who is in the business of making an income off such things. But only if any and all costs involved are deductible.

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And exclude the inflationery increase in values.

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It's an extension of the Limited Liability concept.  It enables the ability to act in ways and means that may cause harm, but limit one's responsibility to make right to one's creditors.  It's a nice fee structure for tax professionals and accountants.

Hiding assets in trust is one way to limit means testing when receiving some forms of social services, as well as make use of tax advantages and create debt obligations to oneself.

According to donny's answer it's also a means to have control over one's belongings or project jealousy even after death.

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Other measures are going to be needed to improve rental affordability.

Nice to see all of those agencies finally recognising this. 

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Rent ceilings for the number of bedrooms based on cheapest available anywhere in nz. That will bring rents crashing

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And rental availability.

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Can anyone explain why landlords can claim deductions, but not pay GST? Is seems a case of wanting a cake and eating it too. 

Surely if landlords want the tax rights of a business, they should have the same tax responsibilities.

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Businesses COLLECT GST on behalf of the govt. Do you want us tenants to pay 15 percent more

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Bad wording on my part.

As for the impacts on rent cost, my hope would be that it would make being a landlord less financially appealing/viable, thus freeing up some properties for us renters to purchase at a reasonable price.

My understanding is that intrest deductibility has put some spanners in the works for landlords when it comes to their cashflow, that would suggest it's not a simple as "charge the tennant more."

I gather this may be naive, but it seems when the profitablity of being a landlord decreases, the share of the housing sales going to FHB increases. Potentially this can be achieved while also making the tax system fairer.

 

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Over 30 percent of the population are renters, that ain't gonna change. 340 more rental properties are needed every week at current rate of population increases 

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It would change if more people could afford to buy homes. 

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And make it worse for the ones who can't.

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And those are the people that should be able to easily access state housing until such time as they are able to purchase (or rent via the private sector) themselves.

The only difference between a landlord and a renter to my mind is a deposit, given landlords expect to make a profit/yield (meaning the tenant covers the cost of their outgoings plus a margin).

Hence, the only difference in terms of affordability to own is simply having a deposit.

And many landlords don't have that deposit in cash either - they simply get the deposit based on asset inflation (unrealised capital gains) within their portfolio of properties.

 

.

 

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Why would you go buy a house if the Govt is giving you one for free?  We already have a queue of beneficiaries refusing to get jobs or stop having kids, because they get paid more on a benefit and get free housing.  People are already refusing to move into private rentals, as evidenced by all the fake rental enquiries and no shows that landlords experience when advertising for tenants.  The more you give them, the more of them there will be.  As its said "show me the incentives, and I'll show you the outcome".

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The tougher anyone makes it for landlords with long term rentals, the more attractive Airbnb becomes. My own experience is 3.5 times the income per week, and everybody, including the owner behaves impeccably, due to mutual reviewing, freely available on the AirBnb website. At that ratio, 15 weeks a year AirBnb equates to 52 weeks a year long term. So, it will be a bit tricky for long term renters if too many limitations are put on their landlords. They will just go to a better deal for them.

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I've always said that AirBNB properties should be commercially (not residentially) rated.

Tourist accommodation is a commercial business.

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Kate - That makes no sense if Rates are supposedly to pay for Council provided services which Air BNB occupants are unlikely to access apart from Road/Water/sewage so the effect is actually a benefits for Councils. 

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All Councils spend up large on economic development initiatives - every sports stadium; museum; festival; playground; public art; etc. How much for example did Auckland Council contribute to America's Cup infrastructure and funding?

Add to that your road, water and sewerage - and what's left that isn't used by the tourism sector?

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It would, but we have a landlord sympathetic Govt in power now.

A Govt which is also  not sympathetic to Govt employee wage hikes - and strangely the Police seem quite surprised about it.

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No one should be surprised at the Police offer & reaction (least of all Labour who sat on this last year). Their arbitration legislation is different from usual IR, engendering an uncompromising "negotiation"  process.

The Police have compulsory arbitration for pay disputes | Kiwiblog 

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Probably because its safe to assume that many police ( and other voters ) voted for National on the basis of their promise to equip the police to get tougher on crime. 

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Not that I voted on that single issue, but I was most certainly shocked (and were I a Police Officer, would have been offended) by the new Government's offer.  Police have fallen behind nurses, teachers and other government services pays scales - way behind.  This government's offer was immoral and disgusting - but best to let Police speak for themselves;

https://www.policeassn.org.nz/news/police-officers-resoundingly-reject-…

 

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Nurses moved ahead with a pay equity deal to account for historic underpay due to being a female dominated workforce. Where do we end up if male dominated professions try to keep pace?

If you have a look through the documents, one of the professions that nurses were compared to are various grades of Detectives - not your standard cop. The training and qualifications required are not comparable. 

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Not sure I understand your point - are you saying the police or nursing profession s worth less?  Or is it because one as more female practioners?

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Not just me - the pay equity negotiation between nursing and government places nurses on a similar level to detectives.

There are obvious differences. Nurses have to spend several years at University, unpaid, to be able to enter the profession. Police entry requirements are to be literate and in good physical shape.

Why would a new cop be paid as much as a new nurse? Historically they have been seen as similar, as 'women's work' was systematically undervalued.

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People do jobs that others don't want to have to do, and should get fairly compensated accordingly. If you looked at other areas getting more pay and doing easier, or less risky work then it would be ideal to change careers from police. If you have to deal with domestic violence incidents on a daily basis, see the worst side of car crashes, drug addiction, have to tell members of the public their loved ones have tragically passed away, inspect murders and risk their lives in many situations, then pay them fairly to represent this risk and emotional challenge that comes with the job.

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Kate - Read the arbitration agreement.

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Got a link?

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Actually it 47% of adults are in rentals. 63% of homes are OO.

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37/63 or 47/53? Suspect the former.

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Two entirely different and separate figures. 

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Anything over 20% is not a healthy number from a societal perspective - unless of course the rental market is highly regulated making it an affordable and secure lifestyle choice.

 

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there appear to be no countries with <20%

List of countries by home ownership rate - Wikipedia 

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??

The first 28 countries on that list have less than 20% renting (80%+ OO), and many of them would be deemed to be less developed than NZ.

Kate also pointed out that a higher percentage of renters is ok if there are better tenancy laws that make it a more secure and affordable lifestyle option.

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Labours changes resulted in landlords having to pay significantly more tax in relation to their investment properties that were rented. With large increases in interest rates, many cannot afford to hold on to said rental investment properties as they have ratcheted the rent as high as they reasonably can and are still piling money in themselves to maintain the mortgage. Many have been holding out for the reintroduction of interest deductability to be able to keep their investments, and with the bright line being rolled back come 1 July 2023 it is likely there will be an uptick of properties being listed for sale, adding to the large pool we already have and likely having a downwards influence on house prices. 

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Hoping that becomes the case.

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Because the flood of tenants who will be given notice to vacate on 1 April is a good thing?

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Sure, many folks would likely buy their first home from their landlord if their kids are settled into local schools, and/or it is located close to their work and the price is realistic.

The properties don't disappear - they simply move from tenanted to owner-occupied.

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As a "business" landlords would not pay any gst, no business does as they are gst neutral it's the consumer that pays.

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Reads to me like he dug a hole down then along and up again and then ran away laughing as we peer into the first hole.

TBF he did say gst is not well understood just not by who. And yes gst exemptions on food is daft.

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IRD has determined rental income is exempt, and it would be if total revenue is less than $60k p.a..  I guess that's to benefit tenants, but would only be a 1 off increase of 15% (universal pricing signal) and then rents will carry on being set by the market.  I don't think many Landlords would have the restraint to set aside GST over a year, many struggle to even lodge the bonds.  

Landlords do like to partake in selective categorization though.  They're a "business" when it comes to their entitlements to tax deductions, but "mom and pop" saving for their retirement when expected to meet minimum standards of running a business (e.g. healthy homes legislation).  

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Also why is it that landlords can borrow at personal home loan rates, rather than business ones? 

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Hi Jake, residential rental is specifically excluded from the GST net.  So no GST is payable on rental income, but also GST is not claimable on rental expenses (property purchase/rates/insurance etc).

Hope this helps

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They can claim for property maintenance (that doesn't increase value), accountant fees, insurance, rates, payments to renting agents, lawyer fees for bothrental contracts and purchase and travel expenses. 

https://www.ird.govt.nz/property/renting-out-residential-property/resid…

That's a lot of tax perks and a lot of money left on the table by the govt... could fill a big hole in that budget I'm sure.

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Good grief, Jake94. Please try to understand that in business, tax is paid on turnover minus costs. Please try to get that concept into your head. Anybody that says that anything else is the fair way to go displays a total lack of understanding of how our business and tax systems work. As shown by our previous government with their refusal to let property investors deduct all their costs. Anybody who says that rents should go down when interest costs become deductible as was previously allowed, is therefore admitting that the loss of interest deductibility added to the nondeductible costs of the rental property owners, which of course added to the rental costs of their tenants. Which of course, is the total opposite of what our previous government pretended they were trying to achieve with their tax policies.

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I don't understand how that means landlords should be exempt from collecting GST the same as any other business. 

By all means claim the costs against turnover but still have GST applicable. Ultimately its fairer for all other types of business, FHB and OO.

If you can give a single good reason why a landlord can claim to be a business owner, and get all the associated benefits, but not have the same responsibilities I'm genuinely interested. Hence my initial question asking someone to explain this. 

Only reason close to a good answer I have is "it keeps rents chraper" but based on that should we not drop GST on all essential items; food, utilities, petrol. Though all I hear is people saying this is a bad idea so why such a good idea for landlords? 

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Rent is considered an investment return - similar to interest - not a profit stemming from some productive activity.. i.e It's not a "good" or a "service".

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Makes sense. I see income from it is taxed in the same way as other investments are too, so that seems fair. 

I suppose my confusion came from the continual messaging that investors are business owners, who provide a service to the country in the form of rental properties.

Thanks for your response 👍 

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Seems like we have changed to Landlord interest deductibility. 

On another thread , someone pointed out that many would load the rental property with debt , and have cash for use elsewhere. i.e , fully lend on the rental property , whilst using the proceeds to pay of your home mortgage? or to buy yet another property/

What is there to stop this , seems you would be a mug to not have a full mortgage on your rental property.

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Did those improvements really happen at the rental property or were they at the landlord's mansion?

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Yes , all sorts of going ons at one business premise we rented. the aircon that arrived before 31st march , sat in the shed for a few months , then disappeared . Same with the new cladding .But even that landlord baulked at some of the things his accountant suggested he could do.He had a genuine but twisted sense of "fairness". To be fair , another tenant used to boast of going for a ride on his welder,  a high performance motorbike. 

Point been , there's quite a prevalent attitude amongst tradesmen and landlords that gaming the system is the norm , and unless you are silly about it , very little chance of been caught. 

 

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What is there to stop this

The tax system.  Interest is only deductible if the purpose for the loan is to buy an income producing asset.  So no, you cannot "load" the rental property with the mortgage while using the mortgage money to pay off your personal home mortgage.  This is not how it works.  You could load one rental property or your personal home with a mortgage to buy another rental property, as the new property is income producing and therefore interest is tax deductible.

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Hi KW. There are quite a few commenters here who haven't got a clue about such things.

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My point is , if you have a mortgage on your family home , and a mortgage on a rental , which are you going to pay off faster?.The home loan of course , because you can't deduct the interest on that . so the rental mortage goes as close to interest only as the bank will let it . you are entitled to do that ,as you say it is an income producing asset , you gain by paying off as little  as you can , and using the increase in its valuation to buy yet another rental property. 

The difference between property , and any other income producing asset , is that property increases in value, while most other assets depreciate in value.   

The 50 % rule was an attempt to apportion the  interest expense between the cost of renting the property , and the benefit of the tax free capital gain . 

It would be a lot simpler and fairer to make the interest 100% deductible , but tax the capital gain.                

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That our housing market has gotten out of control is hard to argue, and a sensible capital gains tax - like the Australian model that exempts the family home - would force a price correction.

But what will the unintended consequences be if it's not a part of a cohesive whole?

Things like -

Will building be dis-incentivised? While house prices may drop, the price of building one isn't going to drop until we can do something about the oligopoly supplier status to our fragmented, woefully inefficient building industry.

What to do about prescriptive land zoning and building rules that block creative solutions? We keep building poorly designed apartments that people can't treat as a home and then low density housing is mandated on outskirts where land supply has been constricted by regulation - forcing prices through the roof when there's no alternative solutions without hugely bureaucratic processes that often are unsuccessful.

What to do about building control practices that have become close to insane because of local government's desire to avoid liability coupled to zero incentives for local government to provide value for money?

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 In a table mortgage interest payments reduce over time, and this means that when interest is deductible the tax break obtained therefrom diminishes over time. Assuming mortgage payments remain the same this could lead to cash flow problems for landlords..

 However as mortgage loans are rolled over at regular intervals with possible changes in interest rates each  this may be of theoretical interest only. 

I have often wondered if this might be a factor in increasing rents.

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As soon as they have paid off a good chunk of the mortgage on a rental , many would use it to buy another rental . Pumping the mortgage back up to the max.  

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