Hone's financial transaction tax

Harawira calls for 1% financial transaction 'Hone Heke' tax to replace GST, make the rich pay their "fair share" of tax

2nd May 11, 9:47am by Alex Tarrant

<p> Hone Heke chopped down the flagpole at Kororareka. Now Hone Harawira wants to chop down bank profits and the GST by imposing a 'Robin Hood' Tobin Tax.</p>

By Alex Tarrant

Former Maori Party MP Hone Harawira, who launched his new Mana Party in the weekend, is calling for a financial transaction tax to replace GST.

The 1% financial transactions tax, which is being considered along with a more comprehensive capital gains tax, death duties and asset taxes, would mean the rich would "pay their fair share," Audrey Young reported in The Herald.

Harawira dubbed the 'Robin Hood' tax as a 'Hone Heke' tax.

The out-of-Parliament Alliance Party immediately announced support for Harawira's call for the financial transaction tax, saying it had been calling for one along with the Green Party and Maori Party.

The Green Party says it would support an international Tobin Tax if other economies did so, but hasn't yet formed a firm policy on a local financial transactions tax.

"After all, a worldwide movement to tax financial transactions Robin Hood style is gaining momentum, particularly in Europe. US economist Jeffrey Sachs last year endorsed the idea, as have other eminent economists and anti-capitalist campaigners," Alliance co-leader Kay Murray said.

A group called The Tax Justice Campaign, which advocates for the removal of GST from fruit and vegetables, also supported Harawira's call.

“The “Hone Heke” branding of a tax that targets the speculators, banks and big corporates might catch on,” Tax Justice campaign coordinator Vaughan Gunson said.

“We do need to cut these people and organisations down to size. They’re not paying the tax they should be. Speculators in New Zealand’s financial markets currently pay no tax on their profiteering. It’s a gross injustice,” Gunson said.

“With the money we take off the mega-wealthy we could remove GST off food. This would provide immediate relief to people struggling to cope with the rising cost of living," he said.

"And we could fund the re-building of Christchurch, without slashing social spending, which is what John Key’s government is doing, and will continue to do."

Here's Prime Minister John Key's reaction to Harawira's comments:

(Updated with PM John Key's reaction, line on Green Party policy.)

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94 Comments

by Nicholas Arrand | 2nd May 11, 10:07am 1304287657

Let me see...The Banks and The Rich will be hit with an additional tax that isn't applied in other markets....Hmmmmm.... Do they stay in New Zealand , a country desperate for funds to keep it afloat, or go somewhere else, say Sydney, with their money....Hmmmm...

by steven | 3rd May 11, 11:20am 1304378438

Exactly....

Im all for broadening the tax base and making sure the rich DO pay the 30% tax rate on their earnings, but simply slamming them out of existance is just not fair.

regards

by rp | 2nd May 11, 10:13am 1304287984

...so if it's 1% of all financial transactions, if I shift a $100K term deposit as it's maturity comes up to a new term deposit, I have to pay $1,000 to the government....You'd have to put everything long term and have no financial transaction.

The distortions to economic activity would be absolutely enormous. It's completly hair-brained. I'm leaving if this comes in. It will cripple the country.

by Elley | 2nd May 11, 5:13pm 1304313223

"You'd have to put everything long term and have no financial transaction." Or you could move it overseas (that's what I'd do). Or you could move overseas yourself (as you say you'd do). And I can hardly see the benefits in this happening. What a dumb idea.

Considering that the "rich" also pay a higher % of their income in tax compared with people on lower income (and don't get subsidies of all kinds), I also wonder what he considers to be their "fair share"...

by GG | 2nd May 11, 10:11am 1304287860

Hi Alex

Do you have any data on what type of transactions, a financial transaction tax would cover. i..e would it cover mortgage payments, EFT's, bank deposits?

Also, are they any numbers on how much revenue it would generate?

I would be very surprises if a 1% financial transaction tax would generate anywhere near the revenue from GST.

by Alex Tarrant | 2nd May 11, 10:29am 1304288940

Hi GG

Trying to get this from Harawira today. Will be sure to let you know, although I assume it's just a twinkle in the eye at the moment.

We also have to think who the banks might pass this extra cost onto...

Cheers

Alex

by Vanderlei Luxemburgo | 2nd May 11, 11:27am 1304292422

alex see if you can get any extra info on his plans to nationalise monopolies and duopolies. could there be some synergies between WINZ and Pak'n'save?

by rc | 2nd May 11, 3:40pm 1304307617

Sounds a lot like that movie "Idiocracy"

by petrus1942 | 3rd May 11, 9:42am 1304372559

You joke,of course,Alex - we do know who the banks will pass this extra cost onto!

by Rob of the North | 2nd May 11, 10:14am 1304288070

i'm sure Hone (real name.. John Hatfield) will support the removal of GST on fruits

and vegetables.. 'cos that's what his new Mana party is largely made up of..(along with the occasional John Mintie)

oh,yes.."it's moments like ths we need Mana?"

by Hard worker | 2nd May 11, 11:59am 1304294378

Brilliant! Add in Sue Bradford for some real Beef.

by rc | 2nd May 11, 10:17am 1304288272

I wish they'd define what they consider "their fair share".

by Wolly | 2nd May 11, 10:29am 1304288960

The "Tobin Tax" is a great piece of political theatre....super stuff for keeping the mob busy ranting....serves the same purpose as the "working groups"....not a chance in hell of anything remotely like it turning up...unless Hone hatfield and the pink greens and commy alliance mob become govt....is that possible!

by steven | 3rd May 11, 11:24am 1304378647

Wolly, of course the tobin taxes you doesnt it? I know lets just think of myself wolly....

There are some good reasons for a tobin tax....almost over-powering ones.

regards

by Christov | 2nd May 11, 10:42am 1304289760

I'm sure Hone's being dubbed Robin Hood is a miss quote.....I understand it was meant to be........ Robbin da Hood.....just as it was for the good Reverand Brian Tamaki.

And boy with that lovely coat on you could just see the first few bars of "If I ruled the World" being warmed up.

by Rob of the North | 2nd May 11, 11:40am 1304293209

He was a bit like a bride at his own wedding...arrived late, all dressed in his pretty frock gently etched with feathers as a tribute to Kate Middleton and William....and Mum in the background pushing her prize girley down the aisle....the waiting husband , Ant Sykes smiled slyly as it all came together..oops

by Vanderlei Luxemburgo | 2nd May 11, 10:43am 1304289780

right on wol - this is hilarious.

i think in some circumstances a version of the tobin tax could potentially work, but in this case to say " yep 1% of everything and it'll replace gst" is a pretty theatrical statement

maybe they're just trying to get it into the public discussion and then will start haggling the fine points? dunno. great theatre though.

by rp | 2nd May 11, 11:31am 1304292699

....I hope its theatrics. There are so many weird distortions a blanket tax like this would involve its not funny. If it's all financial transactions....what does a shopkeeper now do with their takings...do they take them to the bank and lose 1%, or do they hide them under the bed

I really doubt these guys, Hone & Matt McCarten etc...are capable of costing and thinking through the implications of what they're proposing.

by Rob of the North | 2nd May 11, 11:41am 1304293260

Blanket tax...love it !!

by steven | 3rd May 11, 11:32am 1304379135

Small shops could just pay cash all the time....take cash in, pay for the wholesale in cash....buy off market gardners etc...

and yes those in the black / cash economy wouldnt be acting illegally any more....

Matt McCarten etc....well its pretty obvious where this guy comes from, he's the equiv of ACT out on the left....employers and the rich etc are all bad ppl and need to be screwed....he doesnt need to cost or think it though, its an ideology....and just like ACT, he ignores 90% of ppl dont want to know.

regards

by GG | 2nd May 11, 11:27am 1304292436

Thanks Alex.

If Hone Hartfield has no specific details on the revenue it will generate, then you need to expose him as a liar and an idiot, as it is irresponsible to state he will remove GST if he does not have a viable revenue source.

by steven | 3rd May 11, 11:34am 1304379296

No....its a high level idea.....so remove 20% GST and have a 1% tranaction charge...if 1% isnt enough or too much vary it until it balances....

So if 20% GST raises 5billion, 1% transaction tax raises 2.5billion, well mkae the transaction charge 2%....not hard really.

regards

by JT | 2nd May 11, 11:43am 1304293380

So now that Maori have received significant Treaty settlements, thus making them "Rich," they can be taxed too. What a great idea.

by Rob of the North | 2nd May 11, 11:43am 1304293380

Hone and co are like Winston..any fool ,including us, can stand up and tell the world what's wrong with things..there's so much to choose from...but it takes someone intelligent to come up with actual intelligent solutions...not populist rantings with no hope of working in reality.!!

Winnie must be pissed about Hone and The Donald stealing all his favourite lines..

by Decanker | 2nd May 11, 11:58am 1304294313

What are Brash's flat taxes and large cuts to public spending if they're not just "populist rantings"? It's very easy to say we should be taxed less and govt spending is wasteful. It's quite another to "come up with actual intelligent solutions" that will raise the longterm sustainable wealth of NZ.

Even though the Hone Heke tax is not yet fleshed out, it's a welcome addition to (hopefully) an intelligent tax debate; as as it stands right now, having mugs like myself providing the bulk of govt revenue through PAYE is not the longterm answer to NZ prosperity. I can just leave and be replaced by a lower cost new migrant version. [Cue ideologs saying good, that's what we want]

by Gummy Bear Hero | 2nd May 11, 11:57am 1304294262

...... the idea is supported by anti-capitalist campaigners ! ....... that says alot in itself , doesn't it ...............

[............ who is it that funds and supports the anti-capitalist campaigners , do they use mung-beans as a currency , or something ? ..... ]

by Rob of the North | 2nd May 11, 12:15pm 1304295321

i defer to far greater wisdom than mine,...and now i'm off to the gym..uru gurus !

by Rob of the North | 2nd May 11, 12:15pm 1304295324

i defer to far greater wisdom than mine,...and now i'm off to the gym..uru gurus !

by Plebian | 2nd May 11, 4:26pm 1304310378

You've already said that once!

by hauraki | 2nd May 11, 12:22pm 1304295728

hone fails at math

hone fails pretty much at everything

the rich already paid more than their fair share of tax

the middle class paid more than their fair share of tax

by Gummy Bear Hero | 2nd May 11, 12:41pm 1304296874

Hone's no dumb-arse , his maths is OK . He knows that there are a greater number of people ( i.e. potential voters ) in the lower income deciles , than in the higher ones ....... And he panders to their envy of " rich pricks " just as Michael Cullen / Sue Bradford & their ilk did .

Hone knows the score , don't you worry about that ! ........ Promise the great unwashed masses free access to the munny of rich pricks and the big business ....... And the voters will flock to you ....

... Whether the munny is there or not , whether you can collect it , or the burden falls onto someone else , no matter , just promise the moon , there is no recourse !!!!

......... smug and comfy in the parliament , perks , freebies , fantastic nosh : wined , dined & feted , overseas junkets all paid for , and a fantasmagorical salary .......... Hone's onto it ! ...........He's gonna enjoy being a " failure " , as you put it .

by Kunst | 2nd May 11, 12:44pm 1304297046

Promise the great unwashed masses free ........

Zhh, zhh I thought these people do not exist in your world Roger.

by Gummy Bear Hero | 2nd May 11, 12:54pm 1304297674

Walter : I did not say that ....... There is a mulitude or poor , indigent , and destitute in New Zealand . They are a product of the NZ Labour Party . Promoting welfarism merely entrenches generations into lives of poverty , and that is what Labour want , a great number of voters for them .

....... The NZ Labour Party is an organisation of great evil .

by Christov | 2nd May 11, 1:12pm 1304298727

Things are far less complicated in a Dictatorship......The Confiscation of Funds act ....would be my first decree...targeting all ill gotten gains by suspicion alone....it being a hot day....or I simply dont like you.

There would be an Amnesty period of twelve months to allow a dignified exit of all Corporations ...Banking Industry..and buisness interests who felt exposed.

Thus leaving the rabble to be guided into a New Future....while I would expect a slight increase in unemployment the Defence buget would be increased Tenfold thus resolving any issues of persons being idle.

I would avoid Nato airstrikes and enter into negotiations with Australia to give in to citizens unrest..(at a princely sum)...and hey presto everybody returns and the rabble wonder what it was all about in the first place.

Yes the Devil really is in the detail.....the pussyfooting..the lack of consensus..the lack of will..the lack of interest....

Other people run your affairs because ...You don't want to.

by David B | 2nd May 11, 1:16pm 1304299018

New Zealanders, and particularly Maori, should be very careful to not let the poor, the disaffected and the resentful of this country keep us all poor, disaffected and resentful. Because that is what the Left's ‘poverty economics’ does and will continue to do.

by Kate | 2nd May 11, 1:31pm 1304299860

From the Audrey Young article;

Mr Harawira said Mana would be "anti-neoliberal, against monopoly capitalism, and against privatisation of the people's assets".

"The party and I will be pro-worker."

Great - he's got my vote - I'm a worker and the cost of living rises are unsustainable. No way are my wages keeping up and I pay a disproprotionate amount of both my gross (PAYE) and after tax income (GST + petrol excise taxes + rates + electricity coy profits) to support government expenditure.

Given the negative sentiment above... I can only assume most contributors here aren't wage earners?

by The best statu… | 2nd May 11, 1:49pm 1304300950

Kate, I am a wage earner. However, I bet the Bludger Parties policies will send us to be beneficaries as employers will have no incentive to supply jobs.

by Gummy Bear Hero | 2nd May 11, 1:57pm 1304301428

Kate : Did you miss Wolly's earlier blog , that heads of SOE's received salary rises averaging 14 % in the past year ........ This is where tax-payers' munny is going , and being wasted ....... It is a massive gravy train . And Hone is on board for the ride , a mere $ 800 000 costing for the by-election which he is forcing . ..

..... .A good use of tax-payers munny , you think ?

by Christov | 2nd May 11, 2:25pm 1304303145

Kate ..... with respect when he says "other peoples assets" he is refering to indigenous assests...realized and unrealized....and that statement is open ended to include non indigenous N.Z. aquisitions.

As to the worker...... of course they need representation lest our economy would be as miserable as China's...er I mean well never mind that.

There is nothing wrong with championing people's right to earn a decent living that keeps pace with inflation and allows an individual to better themselves in position or assets.

There is something wrong however with those who would champion the worker while embracing and enshrining the social wefare system as it is.... just to maintain a voter block..the very people they pretend to champion can ill afford to maintain/sustain the way it is ....and growing.

Industry needs workers...workers need industry....the common ground is in what they both don't need ..when it is to excess.

by Kate | 2nd May 11, 6:50pm 1304319018

Actually, I think Hone might be a far greater reformer of the social welfare system than any other of the representative parties these days. If Matt McCarten is a part of his initiative that will certainly be the case.

From what I've heard from Hone in Parliament - for example, his position on tobacco taxes and consumption would most certainly be frowned upon by many of those recipients of social welfare. How great would it be if taxpayer funding of benefits could not be spent on cigarettes? And he has the same perspective on the disproportionate ill effects of pokie machines on Pacific peoples and beneficiaries.

No Maori politician is proud of the poor statistics which plague our Maori population. They have far more incentive than others to improve these stats by lifting the performance and contribution of Maori in the economy. Surely, the more power Maori are given in decision-making - the more accountable they are for reversing the trend. So far it seems the Maori Party in coalition with the National government has achieved litle to nothing in that regard.

by Christov | 3rd May 11, 8:51am 1304369494

Kate I am pleased you did not disagree with the statement but rather chose to reflect on what Hone ...."might'" do...that said I suppose you have to put your trust somewhere.

In your statement...I would agree with your point that Maori are not and have not been represented in a forthright and robust manner for the longest time.....

Self determination should begin as an individual concept and grow by example.

Perhaps Hone is capable of this.....but historically his temper and thoughtless moments have let him down.

For me he behaves most often like an activist with a grudge.....not a visionary reformist.

For me there is no full and final for Hone that includes Pakeha being free of the guilt owned(but not admitted) by their/our forefathers.......

For me there will be no time that Hone will indulge Pakeha without suspicion and contempt...his own words and actions have reflected this.

Perhaps just as we are contemptuous and suspicious of him.......in fairness.

Matt..... may think he can get the bit in this stallions mouth.....I give him zero show..... but wish him luck with it genuinely.

Fear is a funny thing......maybe we need to stop and realize Hone has fears just like we do.....and start again there.

by Kate | 3rd May 11, 9:53am 1304373198

Well said, Christov. For some reason most people (like me and I'm guessing Hone) who denounce the neoliberal prescription in the implementation of a capitalist economy get branded as "left" - and with that branding comes an irrational notion that we thereby support chronic welfarism and intergenerational welfare dependence and the inequity that comes with it.

Yet in fact I believe intergenerational welfare dependence is the single greatest issue for New Zealand going forward. Indeed it is the children born into such dependence and poverty that will make up the majority of able bodied adults in our future. It is critical that they become productive members of our future society. Addressing this crisis calls for radical action but not the punitive, "trickle down" approach of the neoliberal prescription (i.e. punitive controls - more prisons, tougher penalties etc - and punitive socioeconomics - consumption taxes, excise taxes, low wages, employer subsidies etc).

We have to find ways to empower the powerless and to remove the perverse incentives intended to keep the powerless without hope or aspiration to change their present circumstance.

by Christov | 3rd May 11, 10:53am 1304376817

I would reiterate Kate ...Fear is the single biggest root impediment to any journey or prgression that requires application and commitment...

It...clouds...dirtys muddies...sows doubt...sets the trap of failure and justification for that failure through shifting blame....all for fear of... what ?

To me he, Hone, is still a man operating through a standpoint of his fears ...he has yet failed to confront himself....he is..a Malcolm X ..while Martin Luther King is perhaps the better role model.

Which of those two do you suspect had confronted their own fears...?

by Gummy Bear Hero | 3rd May 11, 11:10am 1304377827

So very true , Count ...

.... As an example to prove your point , a journey down Manchester Street ( Christchurch ) in the wee small hours is indeed the fear of all roots .

by Christov | 3rd May 11, 11:12am 1304377971

Don't be afraid GBH....Dog is with you......he's a cocker spooner is him.

by iconoclast | 3rd May 11, 2:15pm 1304388902

Reading this reminds me of a time past .. when once upon a time in this land-of-the-long-white-cloud I worked for one of the top 10 NZ public companies (now gone). The general manager was a Major-General (Rtd) William J Hickey. During the weekly management meetings he would regale us with his many anecdotes of times past.. one of which was a story about his belief in compulsory military training for all 18 year youths .. about one youth .. an 18 year maori boy .. 6ft tall .. very overweight and rebellious .. renegade material .. refused to buckle to the rules of the army .. on completion of his 6 months stint he had lost all the excess weight .. very fit .. was happy in himself and as he departed made a point of going up to the Major-General, fell to his knees, crying, and thanked him, saying the army had saved him, had he not done the CMT stint he was certain he would have been either dead or heading there. CMT was a means of assisting in the transition for many from boyhood to manhood and a productive member of society.

by iconoclast | 3rd May 11, 2:35pm 1304390137

The point is .. you can re-arrange the financial deck-chairs as much as you like, shuffle the money, pretend you are doing something, but in the end you have to do something tangible, and there is no point introducing new taxes, altering others, re-distributing and transferring wealth from one group to another if it doesnt achieve anything. If it merely fosters the next generation of welfare dependence then dont do it. Make it worthwhile for those stuck in the poverty trap to get out of it.

Go and have a look at Dr Don Brash's manifesto web-page of 10 priorities. He is an academic air-head. Not an empty-head but an air-head. They're all thought bubbles. A dangerous waste of space people. Have a look and see if you can identify one practical proposition that will solve todays problems.

by David B | 2nd May 11, 2:35pm 1304303729

“I'm a worker”

I understand that you’re a University academic, Kate. If that is correct then calling yourself a worker is extremely self-indulgent of you. Academics can legitimately be called many things, but a ‘worker’ is not among them.

by Kate | 3rd May 11, 10:04am 1304373872

David, my father taught me a great lesson... find employment in which you will live to work - not work to live. What I learned myself was it is education that often gets you there. I do love what I do but I principally got the opportunity to teach at this level on the back of my commercial sector work record/achievements.

It sounds as though you envy academics because the don't really "work". Trust me, there is plenty of work involved but it is true that most of it is immensely enjoyable - that I don't deny!

by powerdownkiwi | 3rd May 11, 10:24am 1304375081

Kate - my father taught me a great lesson... find employment in which you will live to work - not work to live.

Well, one of us has it 100% wrong, and I don't think it's me :)

There's nothing wrong with work (I mean real work, not the sitting in an office chair that passes for it nowadays) and nothing wrong with paying your way - but living to work?

Spare me. You only get one life - is that the best you can come up with?

by Gummy Bear Hero | 3rd May 11, 10:33am 1304375586

.... And my father taught me a great lesson : -

" Don't try to teach your grandmother how to suck eggs " ...

.... many older folks have a big enough cholesterol problem as it is .

by powerdownkiwi | 3rd May 11, 11:04am 1304377474

GBH

Problems- yes.

Cholestrol?-no.

More to do with the impact on their habitat, of said work ethic, en masse.

Whether they acknowledge it or not. :)

by Kunst | 3rd May 11, 1:25pm 1304385931

My life taught me a great lesson.

Why does it matter ? Work can be for many as much enjoyable as life. Work is part of life – life is part of work – simple !

by Nicholas Arrand | 3rd May 11, 1:33pm 1304386390

Very wise, Walter. As Stephen Stills sang "If you cant' be with the one you love, love the one you're with"

by Sqaure | 3rd May 11, 1:55pm 1304387746

What would you consider to be "real work" ? Saying that anyone who sits in an office chair doesn't do real work is a pretty rash generalisation.

by David B | 3rd May 11, 12:57pm 1304384263

Kate, I worked as an academic both here and in the US for over 10 years so I think I know a thing or two about Universities. In my very early days straight out of school I also worked for several years at the Department of Social Welfare. I’ve also worked in a bakery as a youngster so I think I’m sufficiently experienced to judge what ‘work’ and workers are.

While I know that academics can work very hard and do get very busy at times particularly if they have a heavy teaching load, but to nevertheless put academic work on the same level as that of a worker is not only false, its just being plain silly. Or at worse, self-indulgent, which it is my view of what you’re being. The pay scale alone for University academics rules them out as workers. Within a few very short years, even an entry level lecturer is on >$70,000 a year, with Professors topping the scale out at over 120k.

Workers don’t earn that sort of money, Kate, and neither, as tenured staff with a guaranteed job for life, are academics vulnerable to the vicissitudes that workers are subject too. When was the last time you ever heard of an academic being sacked for her lack of performance, or her gentleman’s hours of 10am to 4pm, or her endless overseas subsidised trips attending international conferences?

Any of us who have worked at Universities can all point to people like that. There is no point in denying it. I've never heard of any workers who can do that though.

by powerdownkiwi | 3rd May 11, 1:22pm 1304385758

David B - sure, academics should be paid progressively less - as should other public servants, we will all have to cut our cloth.

But

an informed society, is to be preferred to an ignorant one, Sure, there are horses (here, for instance) who baulk at the water-trough, but if the trough weren't there....

I guess we could force them to be lumberjacks every third semester....

by andyh | 3rd May 11, 2:10pm 1304388648

David - I have no idea what branch of academia you worked in but as a former academic in biomedical sciences with 20 years plus experience working principally in the UK (but also in the US, Thailand, Brazil, Colombia - I could go on but I wont) I have to say you are describing a situation I am not remotely familiar with.

In biomedical sciences (and as far as I am aware science in general), the path to the most junior of the recognised academic positions (lecturer) typically now takes a first and second degree (the latter typically a PhD), followed by a succession of postdoctoral positions. Getting the first 2 degrees takes 6 years minimum (7-8 years might be more typical as few complete their PhDs in 3) - the first degree would of course be loan financed, the second might be financed by a studentship or as a research assistant - in either case the 'pay' rates are hardly generous. As for hard work - PhD students I have known have had to work Christmas days if that is what their protocol required.

By the time most start their first postdoc most are then in their late twenties. There are far fewer lecturships than postdocs produced - as a consequence those wishing to make a career in academic science are forced to take a series of two or three year positions (no tenure there!) and hope something comes up - to stand any chance they must publish as much as they can and try and pull in grant money (not too many opportunities for lassitude then!). Most simply do not make it - I know of many who go past 40 without ever getting a university post, and are still trapped on contracts which come up for termination every few years - then bang, all of a sudden you are considered over the hill and then you'll never make it.

Of the precious few who do get a lectureship, very few would then go on to make full Professor (the posts simply dont exist). Most would end up at the Senior Lecture level at retirement. It may come as a surprise to you David but certainly in the UK many Universities have abolished tenure - and even when it does exist redundancies can and do happen.

As for pay? Well I have been out of the UK system for 7 years but when I left (25 years in the system, 5 degrees to my name and direct responsibility for 20 odd scientists and support staff) I can tell you that my final years salary did not exceed 50,000pounds ($110,000). I won't bore you with an idea of how many hours per week were required to fulfill those responsibilities but I can assure you that 95% of 'workers' would flatly refuse to do them.

by David B | 3rd May 11, 3:03pm 1304391793

Well that’s all terribly fascinating I’m sure, andyh, but what happens in the UK is of absolutely no interest to me, neither is it of any relevance to this post or to Kate’s comments. This is about New Zealand, not the UK.

The situation you describe regarding the need to have undertaken several post-doc positions before one can apply for an academic position at University applies only to the sciences. And you have correctly described it. But Universities have more than just their science and biomedical faculties; they also have the Arts, Business, Law etc. The post-doctorial system does not apply to these faculties and I’m reasonably certain that Kate does not work in the sciences. Nevertheless the post-doctorial scale mimics the lecturers scale so that after a few years of work here in New Zealand, post-doctorial researchers will be on well over $60,000. In fact the starting pay for a New Zealand brand new post-doc on a FRST post-doctorial scholarship was $61,000 pa in 2009.

Regardless of whether an academic is on a short term or long term contract, once appointed the situation is very much as I described it, and certainly their employment terms and conditions are generally the same. But some academics (and former academics) just seem to be very defensive about it and to criticism about their work in general.

By the way I just rang a mate of mine; Profs at The University of Auckland are all now on 130k+

by andyh | 3rd May 11, 3:27pm 1304393273

How odd then that you made play of having experience in the US if you had meant this as a NZ-centric post?

by David B | 3rd May 11, 4:21pm 1304396462

How very silly.

by rp | 2nd May 11, 4:22pm 1304310170

It may seem like a good idea Kate to draw tax from another area. But there will be other people that have to pay. I predict a run on NZ banks, people trying to get their money out to places they don't get it taken if this kind of tax goes ahead. The other likely consequence is big changes in how money circulates if it is taxed on each financial transaction. This will mean workers end out with a worse economy, and they will still have to bear the burden of public expenditures, so be taxed more.

by Rob of the North | 2nd May 11, 4:47pm 1304311678

you say you'd vote for him as if he's likely to sweep into a majority in parliament and be able to implement all his flat earth divisive politcs..the guys a dreamer who doesn't how politics works...he's shown consensus politics are not his thing...waste your vote if you wish but don't be naive!

by steven | 3rd May 11, 11:44am 1304379893

Kate, everyone's lifestyle is about to go down the pan....this is because of the cost of oil etc....

The problem I have with the hard left is there is never a point of taking too much from the better off to support the less well off (and the hard right are no better its just the groups are swapped)....What I notice in life is if you make life easy ppl just sit back, make something harder and they work to get around it.....costs are going up to live because there are too many ppl and our resourecs are being exhausted....WFF already means many lower income ppl pay no or almost no tax....and actually having more kids means a bigger hand out....sorry but I believe in balance and I really dont think its from Hone etc....just like its not from Hide/Brash.

regards

by GG | 2nd May 11, 1:53pm 1304301222

Kate

I am a salary earner and was paying a high % of my income in direct and indirect taxation to the government to support populist policies which fail to address the key issues and instead entrench poverty.

I made an ethical stand against paying NZ taxes which entrench poverty and destroy the environment (by subsidising unsustainable population growth), so I moved offshore. Now I pay no NZ tax.

Unfortunately for NZ inc, a large number of the skilled and educated who are the future of NZ have taken the same route.

Kate - you come across as an intelligent person. Why then would you vote for Hone? Hone is either an idiot who does not realise that by scrapping GST and imposing a financial transaction tax would massively erode government revenue base, result in shutting NZ out of the internal funding makets and ulimately force hugh cuts to government spending.

Or he a liar who like a snake oil sales-person promising the world to voters who lack the knowledge to make infomee decisions, even though he knows full well this will destroy them(as GBH notes, this is more likley the case).

by Alex Tarrant | 2nd May 11, 6:39pm 1304318341

Updated with a video of PM Key throwing Harawira's suggestion aside

by Plebian | 2nd May 11, 8:26pm 1304324778

I would suggest Hone contact Alamein Kopu for advice about setting up a new political party. Alamein set one up in October 1997 (Mana Wahine) and has never been heard of again. The sooner Hone gets his show on the road the deeper he will be able to immerse his snout into that bottomless trough of tax payer largesse.

by Patricia | 3rd May 11, 2:56am 1304348188

Thank goodness someone is starting to look at how to run this country with an alternative tax structure even if it is Hone. Personally I want a financial Transaction tax on all Bank DEPOSITS (which must not be tax deductible) to replace GST. The word "Bank" must be widely defined. This is NOT a Tobin Tax even if our very limited PM thinks it is. My proposal was1/4 cent in every dollar. It would bring in much more than GST and would much easier to administer.

by steven | 3rd May 11, 7:15am 1304363701

Well, my comment on that is this we have a progressive tax system already and hammering deposits hammers OAPs and savers and the rich dont have deposits its offshore in hedge funds........I need to read this but its probably as dumb as JK thinks.

regards

by Patricia | 3rd May 11, 10:38am 1304375901

Think. Replacing GST with such a tax would eliminate those damn GST returns. It is simple. It is cost effective. Administrative costs for a business would be reduced, And it replaces GST. All those who think that there are too many public servants should be delighted. All those people who have to look at those returns wouldn't have a job. The Banks would collect it as they do the WHT. Forget about hedge funds. As it is not tax deductible then when anybody, Telecom, Mitre 10, Pak and Save as well as the individual has money put into their Bank account out comes 1%. Everyday. Living costs for the average NZer would be reuced and boy do they need that.

by steven | 3rd May 11, 11:15am 1304378134

Dont tell me how to think.....I can manage that......

GST is useful....its a consumption tax....Collecting tax isnt about the most efficient way, its also often about sending msgs to change behaviour....

It seems the only way to make ppl change their habits is often hitting them in their pockets, eg heavy cigarette tax...so when you make life easier thats counter-productive they go back to sleep.....and what is more it is only a temp measure, petrol, food etc will continue to rise. In terms of transactions costs the banks do the work instead of businesses there is still work...

How do you not double tax? for instance I transfer money to my wife's account and my kids uni accounts, what you are saying is the second I do that Im taxed again?, so its a transaction tax....so if you dont want to do that that's a nightmare to manage.

Like I said I want to read what's proposed, but potentially its just swapping one way for another and having a massive compliance cost to do so....

Also we have a progressive tax system, now I can see there is some scope for making it more progressive ie the richer get taxed at 30% and not dodge it anymore and land tax would seem a very good way....I can see that looks potentially pretty simple... Many of the rich keep their money off shore so transaction taxes may not catch them....land taxes might do a better job of it.

regards

by GG | 3rd May 11, 9:05am 1304370313

Re. Patricia.

"Personally I want a financial Transaction tax on all Bank DEPOSITS (which must not be tax deductible) to replace GST. My proposal was1/4 cent in every dollar. It would bring in much more than GST and would much easier to administer".

Please provide your figures that support your analysis? I would be very surprised if your proposal would generate more than GST,

GST generates $14.4bn of annual revenue (23% of the total revenue of $60.3bn).

Also, one of NZ's key problems is that as a nation we save and invest too little and the banks are too reliant on foreign debt. What would you therefore discourage savings in term desposits by imposing additional tax on them. The tax system currently penalising savings in term desposits relative to debt fueled investment in property. Your proposal would make it worse.

Why would you want to punish those people trying too save in safe investments?

by Patricia | 3rd May 11, 10:46am 1304376399

The 1% would replace GST. I would do it on deposits rather than withdrawals because it is simpler. If it were done on withdrawals it wouldn't work as well. Remember if it replaces GST people have more money to save. It cannot be tax deductible. That is the key of the whole thing. Your view on the reason for the increase in the price of property is not mine. Once Banks were allowed to lend as much as they liked and the requirement for a person to have X amount of equity was removed then, in my view,that was when things went haywire

by Snarlypuss | 3rd May 11, 10:57am 1304377064

Is paying off your crdit card a 'deposit'? If so, then you will penalise eveyone twice! Once, when they get their pay put into their bank account, and secondly, when they pay off their card. If not, then just get your employer to pay your wages straight onto your Credit Card. After all, the credit card people pay interest on all credit balances.... so 'tax' avoided! Where there's a will, Patricia,......

by VALENTINA | 3rd May 11, 10:40am 1304376046

Kate, I have often wondered how you have the time to write so much on this blog site, while I appreciate your obvious intelligence you do have a somewhat superior attitude. Now I find that you work for a University, that explains how you do have the time.

I suppose you can justify the use of our tax paid time spent blogging as you are educating us, the readers, to a certain extent.

by Kate | 3rd May 11, 11:30am 1304379027

Valentina, I only work part time as a paid educator - hence the spare time at home spent on here (between moving stock around, mending fences and digging in the garden, that is).

:-)

PS BTW - both Uni's I have worked at block access to blog content on websites such as this - you can read the articles but the blog content is unavailable.

by Christov | 3rd May 11, 11:09am 1304377740

Hey jeepers Valentina......don't let Steven see you call it a blog site...he thinks it's a collection point for compiling his Thesis on Peak Oil......and the collapse of the American Dream.

by Gummy Bear Hero | 3rd May 11, 11:18am 1304378285

Now that Lincoln University is studying the efficacy of African dung beetles on Kiwi dairy farms , is it possible to do a Thesis in Faeces ? .......... It'd make for more exciting reading than you-know-who's thesis on peak-oil & the prolapse of the American Dream !

by David B | 3rd May 11, 12:32pm 1304382741

Ah, the Faeces thesis. I've read it. It was a pile of shit.

by steven | 3rd May 11, 11:17am 1304378257

we dont need bitchy comments at all, play the q and not the person...

regards

by Christov | 3rd May 11, 11:30am 1304379020

My apologies Steven......hope ..."we"...are well.....couldn' t help myself...curse these damn fingers of mine.

But you know I gotta say...well I don't actually ...but I will....it is entirely possible to be correct and repetitively boring at the same time.....just an observation...n after all that's what science is about isn't it......?

by steven | 3rd May 11, 11:51am 1304380312

"we" LOL....OK....fair cop...

"repetitively boring" might have to be a bit more specific here...if you mean i reply to ppl with the same/similar msg about peak oil etc, then yes I guess it could be, however in effect lots of ppl spouting un-truths or un-workables v just a single comment? not exactly balanced.....I suppose no one can win....

regards

by Christov | 3rd May 11, 12:02pm 1304380950

Good for you Steven!!...the ability to smile at yourself occassionaly is what is missing in your deliveries.

Have one on me and have a good day.

by Gummy Bear Hero | 3rd May 11, 11:33am 1304379224

steven : That's more than a bit rich coming from you . You've spent alot of time denigrating others' view-points , and sneering at them ........ If you lift the bar of " Gentlemenly Conduct " , we'll agree to accord you the same respect ...........

........... have a Gummy Bear , buddy !

by steven | 3rd May 11, 12:02pm 1304380921

GBH, ....its simple I play or reply to the idea / comments....if you come up with a naff, ill-thought out idea, and I have a depth of understanding of that subject I will chew it up and especially when that idea / comment derived from an extremist political view point be it left or right, big or small.....but I dont attack you personally.

and I wasnt "attacked" kate was.

No sweets Im on a diet....

regards

by powerdownkiwi | 3rd May 11, 11:37am 1304379439

The floggings (repetitively boring) will cease when morale (understanding) improves.

by Christov | 3rd May 11, 11:54am 1304380491

The inescapable reality of finite rescouces will only serve to exault the voices in the wilderness........for all the good it will do them post the event.

While we cannot control the numbers of our species or even begin to accept responsibilty for doing so................our outcomes are predetermined by our own proliferation.

I understand your support of Steven as a messenger of reform.

Not that there is not undertanding PDK....the story needs a new dress is all....and a better delivery service.

with respect.

by powerdownkiwi | 3rd May 11, 12:00pm 1304380840

Dresses? I have but few.

Signed

Cassandra

by Christov | 3rd May 11, 12:07pm 1304381275

I have accused you of many things PDK...boring has not been one of them.

Signed

Apollo.

by GG | 3rd May 11, 12:22pm 1304382152

Patricia - as per my question, please provide your analysis supporting that the revnue would generate at least $14.4bn.

Anybody can appease / lie to the uninformed by quoting such statements. It is irresponsible to promise such things unless you have the analysis to back-up your statements.

I would suggest that such a tax is easy to avoid. e.g. surely employees would ask their employer to pay them in cash, instead of having the funds deposited into their accounts and attracting the tax.

I have happy to revoke my statement and admit defeat if you can provide the relevant analysis.

by Les Rudd | 3rd May 11, 12:27pm 1304382445

Apols in advance, a little off topic, but nonetheless related, I'd be interested to see comments on this:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/opinion/columnists/chris-trotter/4953419/Brash-Harawira-seize-welfare-state-traditions

(Might have been better on the recent Don Brash thread ... sorry.)

by Kate | 3rd May 11, 3:52pm 1304394727

Chris Trotter has a wonderful way of framing things while still informing - I hadn't caught the fact that Hone brought up John A Lee in his launch of Mana. Even more worth watching what comes next in terms of economic policy.

by soothsayer | 3rd May 11, 10:04pm 1304417041

My felling is generally to tax things that can easily cross borders invites issues with advoidance, and generally the well off can more easily avoid tax than the less well off. So I'm not sure how progressive this tax really is.

The other thing that Hone or Matt need to clear up is what type of FTR is this. It seems that they talk of toblin and then talk of robin hood and making the rich pay, but they are just buzzwords what are you going to tax. Are we talking foriegn currency deals, are we talking the sale or purchase of bonds and we talking chequeing accounts.

Details then let us make sense of it

by Janey | 10th May 11, 11:12am 1304982775

Awesome idea! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYtNwmXKIvM