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David Mahon says the US is being reckless in stirring up the Taiwan issue and although China has few good options, it will still defend its long term interests

Public Policy / opinion
David Mahon says the US is being reckless in stirring up the Taiwan issue and although China has few good options, it will still defend its long term interests
Chinese navy

By David Mahon*

Despite Speaker Pelosi’s professed aim to support Taiwan, her visit to Taipei on 2 August in fact weakened the Taiwanese people’s struggle to maintain the ambiguity of their coexistence with China, provoked Beijing unnecessarily, and dramatically increased tensions between China and the US. It is hard to fathom why Speaker Pelosi thought this trip would serve American or Taiwanese interests. Perhaps it will help the Democratic Party appear ‘tough on China’ and win votes in the upcoming mid-term elections, but it looks more as though the US is acting recklessly in risking a military confrontation with China. In escalating mutual tariffs, embargos and condemnations, the two nations are increasing the possibility of a real conflict in the future.

Strategists in Washington only wanted to make China look bad. Now they can point out China’s military exercises to their allies and say, “See, we told you China was dangerous.” America will push China at every opportunity so it can fight it soon, before it becomes too powerful, and now it is creating the environment in which that will be ok.
Australian sinologist in Shanghai.

Russia is being bled white in Ukraine, and even if it consolidates the invasion, it will face a protracted guerrilla conflict and become a weaker nation, alienated from the West and increasingly economically dependent on China. Some in Washington seem now determined to use Taiwan as a proxy for conflict with China as Ukraine has become a US proxy conflict with Russia. Beijing seems readily provoked, playing into the hands of Washington lawmakers who frame China as militarily aggressive when in fact China has not been involved in an international military conflict since its 40 day incursion into Vietnam in 1979, a conflict in which both sides claimed victory.

The United States views China spuriously as a direct challenge to its global dominance and the architect of its domestic economic imbalances. Beijing realises that Washington is determined to contain it and coerce its allies to do the same. China is not seeking global hegemony but rather regional influence and security, presently denied it by the US. The US has over 200 military bases in Asia, compared to China’s handful of politically provocative but strategically ineffectual installations on rocks and reefs in the South China Sea. China has no Monroe Doctrine, but wants instead to tip the balance of the present regional status quo in its favour and reduce US coercion. If the US continues to try to damage the Chinese economy and alienate it from its trading partners, China will eventually become more aggressive and act as the political adversary that Washington now falsely imagines it to be. It is not so much China’s rise that is the threat to global prosperity and peace, but the United States’ responses toward its own decline.

The present tensions in the South China Sea and latterly the Pacific between the US and China reflect China’s desire to push back against US attempts to contain its rise, and Washington’s reluctance to concede any political or military ground. Xi was frustrated that President Obama would not agree to a demilitarised South China Sea. Washington claims that it was China that rejected Obama’s offer of the same.

The US and most Western countries assume that the potential flashpoint with China will be Taiwan, and that China is preparing for an imminent invasion, largely due to President Xi Jinping’s stated aim to ‘resolve the Taiwan question’ during his tenure. Every Chinese leader since 1949 has stated a similar aim. China established formal relations with the US when it signed the Shanghai Communiqué in February 1972 that stated Taiwan ‘is China’s internal affair in which no other country has the right to interfere.’ It also stated ‘all Chinese on either side of the Taiwan Strait maintain there is but one China and that Taiwan is a part of China.’ These principles have underpinned not just the US’ but most nations’ terms of diplomatic and commercial relations with China since. Nations trading with China accept that Taiwan is a part of China, but there is an inference all parties accept Taiwan’s autonomy and independence in a de facto sense. This is well coined in the term ‘strategic ambiguity’. Over the last seven years both the US and China have undermined this ambiguity with coercive and usually empty postures.

We are puzzled to understand what benefit our government gets from this visit. I guess most middle-class families in Taipei would rather that Pelosi had not come. China can make our lives more difficult than it already is and after this they will, but we just want to keep the strategic ambiguity. It works for everyone. If Washington tells President Tsai to do something, she has no choice. The [military] exercises are being broadcast live on TV in Taipei but most people seem pretty matter-of-fact about them. We are not scared. We are used to this and know it’s really not about Taiwan.’
Taiwanese importer

Taiwan is a pawn in Washington’s manoeuvrings to maintain power in Asia, and in the last 40 years the US’ commitment to Taiwan has been often shallow and inconsistent, depending on shifting American domestic political agendas. The Chinese Government frequently misunderstands American political culture, initially welcoming Trump as a ‘business president’ with whom they could cooperate in 2016, and then following Trump’s relentless attacks on China, seeing President Biden as a peacemaker in 2021. Like most large nations, China struggles to see the world outside the prism of their own domestic challenges. Beijing has failed to accept that many of Washington’s recent statements about Taiwan have been for American domestic consumption, made by a government under pressure and keen to demonstrate an appearance of power to distract its population from disillusionment and divisions at home. In the last 20 years Beijing has over-reacted to American naval posturing in the Taiwan Strait, playing into the hands of the anti-China lobby with its bellicose rhetoric and military exercises. The days of diplomatic dumbshows are over. Beijing now accurately sees that Washington would risk provoking a conflict before China’s military becomes too powerful. War is not imminent, but it is now not as unthinkable as it was. Both nations would do well to stop feeding their people nationalistic rhetoric and dehumanising the other side.

Xi has been an effective domestic president in many ways, reforming the economy, increasing the depth of the private sector, alleviating poverty and curtailing monopolies, and remains arguably China’s most popular leader since Mao, despite the current stringent zeroCOVID polices. But Xi has not always been an effective regional diplomat, frequently alienating Japan and South Korea and galvanising their anti-China political cultures, and increasing tensions with India dramatically. Xi has had some regional successes, such as the resolution of long-standing border tensions with Vietnam and changing negative public perception of China in Malaysia and Singapore, but like US leaders Xi has tried to consolidate domestic support at home by demonstrating that he is fighting for China’s national interests abroad. This nationalism may be hard to defuse in the future.

The Chinese foreign ministry seemed surprised at the widespread eagerness expressed on Chinese social media for a harsher and more specific response to Pelosi’s visit than military exercises and embargos on some Taiwanese food imports. There were even some who called for an immediate invasion of the Island. Others thought that Beijing could at least prevent her plane from landing. Washington may be prepared to sleepwalk into conflict with China, but it will need more artful strategies than theatrical harassment to trigger China. For all the firepower used in the recent Chinese miliary exercises around Taiwan, Beijing was relatively restrained, and for all Washington’s rhetoric about policing ‘international waters’, it made no counterdemonstrations of military power.

Beijing sees Taiwan as an inalienable part of China, the recovery of which was interrupted by US participation in the Chinese Civil War, backing Chiang Kai-shek when he took refuge on the island in 1949. Chiang killed tens-of-thousands of people in Taiwan consolidating his power as a warlord like any other of the era. Martial law was lifted in Taiwan in 1987 after 42 years. The social and economic miracle of Taiwan since then, so admired around the world for how swiftly and smoothly it moved from dictatorship to a thriving free market democracy, has made Western support for its relative autonomy reasonable and understandable. To preserve this, it would be best that Taiwan exists in a state of political ambiguity, avoiding declaring independence and pushing China to enforce its claim.

If there were those in the Chinese Government who thought China could invade Taiwan at will, their confidence would have been shaken after observing the West’s sanctions against Russia following its invasion of Ukraine. Beijing knows that commensurate sanctions could drive its economy into recession, creating national penury to the extent that the Communist Party might be threatened by social unrest. It is not that China could not invade Taiwan, for it has significant airborne troop capacity, advanced fighter aircraft and helicopter gunships, but the oft touted Washington statistic that China now has more ships in its navy than the US is an artifice. Much of the PLA’s fleet is defensive, carrying inferior firepower to that of the US Navy. Washington inflates the size of the Chinese navy by including coastguard and small fisheries monitoring craft, many of which are launches and dinghies. It is clear however that the potential air superiority that Taiwan enjoyed up until around ten years ago has gone, for many of its aircraft are outdated, and the Taiwanese military has invested too much in expensive hi-tech weaponry of questionable practicality. Taipei’s army is also poorly trained, and conscription is no longer than four months.

China knows that while Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has had a major impact on the world through the inflation of food and energy prices, a Taiwan invasion would destroy a critical tech supply centre (particularly in microchip production) with the ensuing worldwide recession blowing back on China. Both Beijing and Taipei are likely to work to preserve the status quo, as neither government has a predilection for war, preferring peaceful diplomacy.

China also trusts that its growing arsenal of sophisticated ICBMs and existing tactical nuclear weapons will be a firm deterrent to the US goading Taiwan to conflict in the future.

Since Pelosi’s visit, China has recognised that Washington will continue to push past the redlines China has long set. Pelosi’s visit was one of many probes over the years to test the depth of China’s commitment to resist the US’ incremental extraction of Taiwan from the strategic ambiguity of the past 40 years. Taiwan knows it is little more than a pawn in Washington’s dangerous game, one the US has lost repeatedly since 1945. For all the vows of support from American politicians, Taipei also knows that the US is not a reliable ally.

China can prevent a war of scale with the US by not allowing itself to be drawn into conflict. No matter to what degree China and the US’ interests may conflict in the region, without shared borders and with vast oceans upon which both countries may demonstrate their miliary power while avoiding each other, military confrontation is difficult to foresee in the near-term.

The continued decline of the United States is also not an inevitability. It can renew its divided and unbalanced society, and repair its broken democracy as it has done in the past. A more confident and stable United States would likely still see China as a competitor, but also in many fields as a partner. For all China’s outward confidence, it knows its limitations and that working with the US is preferable to a protracted power struggle. Many in China are sure that only a return to a partnership with the US will provide China with all it needs to fulfil its economic and political potential.

As China becomes stronger economically and continues its Belt and Road initiatives, it will increase its influence in Africa, Southeast and Central Asia, and the Pacific, lifting its own common wealth and that of its trading partners, and thereby ultimately undermining Washington’s attempts to contain it. The US is accelerating China rise instead of slowing it, and forcing China to become more technologically independent, while causing little damage to the domestic Chinese economy. Washington’s trade war against China has instead inflicted considerable damage on the American economy, and delivered booms in manufacturing exports from Vietnam, Bangladesh and India. The US can break China’s stride but not its inexorable rise.

Where troops have be quartered, brambles and thorns spring up. In the track of great armies there must follow lean years.
Lao Zi, 5th century BCE


*David Mahon is the Executive Chairman of Beijing-based Mahon China Investment Management Limited, which was founded in 1985. This article is here with permission.

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69 Comments

Pretty good article overall, but I think the author massively downplays China’s ambitions when he talks of it seeking ‘regional influence’. In fact, it is seeking ‘regional dominance’, if not global dominance.

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... Russia in Afghanistan , in Ukraine ... America in Vietnam , Afghanistan , Iraq ...

The " Mouse that Roared " principle  scuppers the military ambitions of giant nations time & again ...

 ... I think that the Chinese are smarter than that , and understand " this time is not different " ...

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Careful Gummy, one more word and you would have been done for plagiarism and copyright 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g

 

 

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Exactly this.

For the author, Chinese history appears to have commenced in 1916.

China has been a hegemon throughout its history, albeit one that has traditionally deployed shows of force and diplomacy rather than open warfare - the last 150 years or so have been an aberration as their prior empire decayed through corruption, exhaustion, incompetence and bloody revolution, to now undergoing a process of renewal sine the '80s.

China remains utterly imperial in character though.

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A China led world will benefit everyone.

 

The US led world has been only benefiting the white ones at the cost of non whites. Proven by historical facts.

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... why does the world  need anyone to " lead it " ?

A better option would be for us to promote mutual friendships  , peace  , co-operation , free trade  ...

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And to abide by common humane principles, such as not committing genocide.

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Democracies (the west) are not perfect but are a million miles closer to freedom than dictatorships (russia/china).

I am pleased the USA visited Taiwaan. China is has been pushing its boundaries for too long without anyone pushing back. The west needs to play tit for tat in future and be very clear that we expect china and russia to obey international law. Else they will simply continue to gradually erode western influence globally.

My personal preference would be to impose sanctions for the human rights abuses on china as well. But likely it will only come when supply chains are decoupled which i imagine is happening for most eu/uk and us key industries now

I would like to see NZ and Australia decouple economically from china further and faster.. the future is easy to read and we can either do it willingly now or may be forced to as per europes energy relationship with russia, as a result of sanctions in the event of conflict or a cold war.

I definitely cant see why we dont want the west to proactively push back on china to defend freedoms and our allies in the region.

Should china decide to hold free elections, reverse its human rights abuses and declare taiwaan a free country and uphold international law.. for a generation or two..then i am keen to consider their leadership.

 

 

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Totally agree old skool, to paint the Taiwan problem as somehow the fault of USA is disingenuous and/or idiotic 

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They seem big on ‘re education’ - if only they would apply some to themselves? Do they ever wonder that they could be wrong?

Thats your authoritarian regimes for you……..

Interesting article in the Guardian around countries where no dissent is allowed, They make really bad decisions as they have no checks and balances - and yes before someone says, agree western countries are far from perfect.

Mark

 

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What does it mean to lead the world? It's something that is often misinterpreted as wanting to dominate the world but what it actually means is lead by example. There is nothing at all stopping China from leading the world by example. Actually we are getting rather impatient waiting for you guys to do that. And, no, complaining about the wrongs of the past and ganging up against Europeans is not "leading the world". 

Leading the world is developing better standards of living, better technology, better laws, greater equality and human compassion and much more. Then "the world" can follow the leader. You know, like a lot of us followed post war America.

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Excellent comment.

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A comment that wilfully ignores the history of the 20th century's 2nd world war.

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“US  led world will benefit everyone.

 

The China led world has been only benefiting the Chinese ones at the cost of non Chinese. Proven by historical facts.”

 

Can you see now Xing that your post was racist xenophobic  bullshit? 

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Not benefiting Tibet or Muslim minorities in China. Not benefiting protesters in HK who criticise the current Government. Not benefiting those with death penalties imposed who have no right of appeal under the CCP legal system. 
 

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I doubt the fish stocks and oceans would agree.

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Never happen Xing.

I dont want my organs harvested, land ownership restricted, freedom of speech restricted, or your soldiers moving into my house with my wife when you put me in detention.

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Maybe we should ask her?

 

:)

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Some pretty big assumptions about China maintaining its path to greater material prosperity.

Many headwinds in the way of that.

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... they seem to have enough internal issues to deal with ... they'd be off their noodles to get expansiory , and look to develop an empire  ... 

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We live in dangerous times. The USA is basically shit stirring to create a distraction from the problems in its own country and the fact they have terrible politicians continually seeking popular support due to their hopeless political and voting systems. I don't see a world war in the short term, its more likely that the USA has a civil war at this stage.

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The Yanks can't afford to lose access to the semiconductor industry in Taiwan.  It's more important than oil.  They WILL go to war if the Chinese attack, and they're trying to make that clear to AVOID war, not to stir shit.

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TSM should have made the move out of Taiwan already. Alternatively those US based manufacturers, whose production is in Taiwan, should have been looking to move production away from there.

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Having just returned from the US (where I am from originally), I can tell you that I have never heard more people I know and respect genuinely worried that the country is headed toward bona-fide civil conflict.

One immediate danger is that there are now several states in which Republicans have installed partisan officials with the power to certify (or not) election results. If free and fair election results start to be decertified, it is only a matter of time before the country starts to break apart.

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... if you're walking down the path , why poke the sleeping bear ? ... stupid Pelosi ... WTF , how arrogant & stupid could you possibly be  ... 

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Exactly, and I said that at the time.

I am deeply skeptical of the CCP, but also to a certain extent of the USA.

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What about poking a growling bear?

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Its more like a sleeping Dragon, the Bear is a stuffed toy by comparison.

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More like paper tiger.  They might be able to control their own population - although even that has been shaky these past few months - but they certainly can't control the world.  It's all bluster.

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Its all to do with who has the most energy - that determines who is the hegemonic empire, and usually who wins wars.

The US is going backwards - despite propaganda - in energy terms. And it costs more and more to keep access to other's energy.....

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The world seems to have a leadership vacuum at the moment. We need to get back to working through the UN and look for ways to re engage on disarmament. Could it be that the massive amount of money the US and UK make from arms sales prevents them from going down a more peaceful path?

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Working through the UN?  You mean the UN that features both Russia and China as permanent members of the Security Council with Veto power?  Yeah, good luck with that.

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That is why they should work through the UN. They are all members.

Isolating countries economically, politically and culturally (banning athletes etc) increases suspicion and creates otherness. Once you have little in common with another race or nation it is easier to shoot at them. We need nations to come back together. 

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1931, less than 100 years ago Japan invaded China with horrific genocidal consequences. The Japanese had been gifted Tsingtao by the Wester Allies after WW1, and thus had a launching pad. At the end of the 19th century China was cornered into the opium wars by the West knowing full well China had little military ability to be on equal terms. Hong Kong, Macau were thus ceded. China has now made sure none of that history will ever repeat. The Yuan empire stretched as far west as northern Ukraine. Certain Chinese identities have expressed views that what once was Chinese territory, still is Chinese territory. The currency is called the Yuan. Russia is now both militarily & economically weaker and ever increasingly dependent on China. If China is to expand west and north beckon particularly as their armed forces, for obvious reasons, are primarily the army geared for large scale land manoeuvres. The water can be tested easily enough for international reaction.For instance Mongolia (part of China until the early 20th century) could be annexed and is too remote for any intervention or assistance, save for Russia which as said is otherwise occupied. Then perhaps, Nepal, Bhutan. All of those three are much easier nuts to crack than Taiwan.

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Nah, I think Peter Zeihan is more likely to be correct on this:

China's Demographic Collapse and Geography.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo3J0UwtGJ0

 

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... he was interviewed recently on RNZ afternoon show with Jesse Mulligan ... ear opening stuff , to be sure  ...

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As Thomas Sowell says, if they only looked at the facts/evidence rather than the wishes of their ideology, even if it is done with 'best intentions.'

Zeihan's evidence is pretty compelling.

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Yes, they're screwed (although western nations are not that far behind).  Which is why conflict sooner rather than later is more likely.

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Screwed is a relative word. China is screwed as in, millions starving.

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Good, balanced article, thank you. There's so much here you get right, Taiwan being a pawn of America, the rather tragic history of Taiwan many forget, China's rise along with America's waning influence most of it because they keep shooting themselves in the foot with an atrocious foreign policy.

In my view the US is simply goading China into a response, much like NATO's push Eastward in Europe. They are hoping China attacks something and will keep pushing until they do, being masters of cassus belli, so they can "regretfully act". When their economy relies so heavily on building weapons, it should come as no surprise to anyone that the US is continually seeking theatres of war to use them in, or someone to sell them to.

Beyond the 9 dash lines, China hasn't really looked expansionist. They should argue in court for their rights to the South China sea (and probably lose most of their claims), but are consistent with what they consider sovereign territory (Taiwan/Tibet).  And as the US and almost every other country in the world de-facto accept that, the US should not be goading them.  The lack of expansionist policy goes back in their national pscyche for thousands of years, it took the mongols for them to actually conquer foreign lands, which taught them a lot given the inability for the mongols to hold foreign lands.  It's highly doubtful that they would want to go beyond their current borders as they know other places would be ungovernable by them if they invaded, as shown by the US's follies of the last 50 years or so, which they have definitely learned from.

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A lack of expansionist policy that goes back in their national psyche for thousands of years?  Not everyone in Tibet would agree. Or take Xinjiang. ""Xinjiang became a Chinese territory during the Ching dynasty (1644-1911) in the mid-eighteenth century and was administered by the military. In 1884, it was declared a Chinese province and was the last area to be permanently occupied by China."" The word Xinjiang means 'new borders'. 

By this logic Tahiti remains part of France there as been no expansionism nor colonisation.

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Mate, please read some foreign history books before you comment, the word Xinjiang was named by Emperor Qianlong from Qing dynasty meaning “welcome back to my sovereign” from Ge Er Dan in 17th century who was rebel to Qing dynasty. The history of Xinjiang goes back to 127BC in Han dynasty and always in charge of Chinese reign despite many failed attempts. We almost lost it to Russia in late 19th century as central government was scrambling to fight off the English who started opium war. The rest is all we know, history. 
 

since the beginning, we always take it as a portal to the west aka Silk Road. 
 

please do not butcher the history.   

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I admit no expertise.  This is from Wikipedia - maybe you will correct it.  ""Both regions merged after Qing dynasty suppressed the Revolt of the Altishahr Khojas in 1759 and became the region of "Xiyu Xinjiang"(Chinese: 西域新疆; lit. 'Western Regions' New Frontier'), later simplified as "Xinjiang" / "Sinkiang" (Chinese: 新疆, Manchu: ᡳᠴᡝ ᠵᡝᠴᡝᠨ, Romanization: ice jecen). The official name was given during the reign of the Guangxu Emperor in 1878.[27] According to Chinese statesman Zuo Zongtang's report to the Guangxu Emperor, Xinjiang means an "old land newly returned" (故土新歸) or the "new old land".[n 2] It can also be translated as “new frontier”or “new territory.” ""

The current official name is ""Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region"" which is clearly part of modern China although how autonomous most of the Uygur feel I don't know.

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Take no offense to my comment please.

The trouble is anyone can alter contents in Wikipedia. History is written by victors, in this case, whoever has got the time and claims they are “experts” in such topic. Therefore, I stopped donating to Wikipedia years ago once I realized what was going on. 
 

 

 

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Perhaps this is an over simplification. I think that the outright refusal of the CCP to accept any queries or criticisms of their policies towards any internal dissent is enough reason to keep a wary eye on the actions rather than words coming from them. I ask myself the following question. What would the world look like without a militarily strong USA? My answer to that comes from the history of the world post 1945. That is, as clumsy and self serving the USA has been over that time period I would still prefer them to be the dominant superpower in the world in to the forseeable future. Or until China and Russia get a dose of real democracy.

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China taking Taiwan seves only internal chinese politics. Does Taiwan being indepenent really hurt China.   No.   Best they just leave Taiwan alone,  but instead they just have to continue on a path that gets people killed.   Madness.

Similarly Ukraine should have let the people of the Lugansk and Donetsk republic alone.   And Russia should have left Ukraine alone.   But madness intervenes and people die.

And all of this murder for what is just politics. 

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It's never a good look apologizing for the Chinese Communist Party.

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Forget the imagery, it's never good to have any level of support for a despotic communist regime.  The US (and many other parts of the west) for years has supported China in return for cheap labour - largely at the cost of their own middle class.  An in return for this support, what have they got?  Large scale intellectual property theft (Aliexpress anyone?) and anti-democratic rhetoric.  Hardly a good deal, one might argue.

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Why would the US shy away from conflict with China? The United States of America has ruthlessly dispatched two peer competitor at great cost, four if you count hastening the collapse of the Spanish Empire and USSR, we should have no doubts that they will whatever is necessary to maintain this economic system they have built. If they have to stamp on a few toes to keep near peer competitors from closing the South China Sea to international trade or trying to enforce territorial claims over Taiwan they aren't going to hesitate.

Don't buy the "Wolf warrior" diplomacy hype, if that Chinese wolf bites the US hand they'll put a bullet straight in the back of that pups head without flinching. It's no error that the US is keeping an assertive China on a very short chain right now, they need a firm hand nearby.

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Like the history as always. But Spain. Dispatched at great cost. Not really. Spain was a spent force, well & truly. Randolph Hearst engineered it. President McKinley was forced into it and wannabe President Roosevelt, rough riders and all, thus had his launching pad. That though was the start of American imperialism, in earnest & the late entry to WW1 cemented the USA into world super power status. But going back to Spain. It was really a no contest. The USA picked up territory Cuba (still got part of it) the Phillipines for very little cost. Great story out of the latter. After occupation, fighting  the so called local insurgents, one American general is reported to have said something like - how many of these people do we have to kill before they realise we are here to help them.

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Didn’t agree with the article. It felt a lot like the CCP Propaganda trying to change the view of the narrative. Pelosi is privy to information the public isn’t . The visit was necessary, as is the delegations that followed. 

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So an American (Pelosi) visits Taiwan and China decides its a free for all to fire missiles and wotnot ...  the Aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan which was in the area  didnt fire off a few salvos or launch aircraft nor did the  Stealths take off from OZ . China could have managed the situation better than resorting to 'rocketman' tactics .Why China even bothers to engage in such actions is beyond me...lets waste missiles/munitions just to let folk know we arent happy about this.... Sovereign nations can do what they want and allow whomever they want to visit. Yes maybe the Americans sought to stir it up...but they didnt go about it firing missiles over or near China. China is good for the world economy it brings affordability to the lives of many corporates and consumers, why it wants to flex its muscle is beyond me... fact is it doesnt need to ... it has the financial means to influence... Heres hoping they dont decide to park that old Russian Carrier off Taiwan .... it wont do anyone any good.    

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They're a one-trick pony.  Bluster and bullying.  It won't work, and can't be seen to work.  Backing down and cancelling the trip would have been the worst thing that they could have done.  Thank goodness they didn't.

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Great comment! Phalanax. What we do not see before and after pelosi’s visit is that Xi and JB had a phone meeting a few days prior to her arrival, what did they discuss; why does she specifically arrange a meeting with TSMC officials, why is that; USA is pushing to formulate ally “chip4” - USA, taiwan, South Korean and Japan, why South Korean president and foreign minister said they do not have time to meet pelosi due to national interest conflict, instead foreign minister of South Korean went to Qingdao n met with Chinese foreign secretary, what did they talk about; Chinese military decided not to answer phone calls from US counterpart and went ahead carried out siege strategies around Taiwan, again, does the action exceed the expectation from Xi and JB meeting? 
 

the reality is China made it clear Taiwan is not sovereign nation which over 95% acknowledge that including USA n other major Geopolitical powers; for USA, arguable win for DEMOCRATIC party on mid term election and force TSMC to speed up migrating to Arizona which initially USA  started asking to do so two years ago.  
 

A win-win game for both China and the USA. The only loser is Taiwan. 

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Dave  your articles about China are always biased and criticized US. I know you have some vested interests in China.

https://newzealandinc.com/profile-david-mahon/

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the article was far from perfect, and still biased towards China, but it was better than usual and made some good points.

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Well I dunno.

Most commentators on here know nothing about China, it's clear from their pretty one sided views that they are just regurgitating some sort of "China is evil" doctrine being fed to them.  When quizzed about how the US invades and murders people for no reason, they try and divert attention back to "China is evil" because it's communist and the US is the land of the free, so great and amazing.  Hilariously, they will claim in the same paragraph that any country should be able to vote for and decide it's own fate, except China can't be Communist even though they "voted in" the Communists via a civil war.  Similar to various other Communist countries, where the system of government works, they consider them despotic regimes because Communism=evil.  So they say countries can decide their own future as long as it's the future I want for them even if it's not suited to the people.  Which is what the US just tried to do in Iraq/Afghanistan, the results speak for itself. The hypocrisy is entertaining but for most, they don't even realise they are being hypocrites, which I guess is the sign of deep seated hypocrisy. 

Communism combined with capitalism actually is working out pretty well for China. Benevolent dictatorship worked out pretty well for Singapore. The absolute monarchy has done OK with some Arab states. Socialist democracy works pretty well for Scandinavian countries and NZ.  Oligarch democracy might work out well for the US.  Authoritarian democracy works well in India/Turkey.  Simply put, different places and different people can be governed differently for the same/better/worse results as whichever one you are comparing it to. 

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Some good points but heavy on the anti US rant.

Good read here about China's other activities:

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/default/files/media/documents/article/magic_weapons.pdf

China could never match the West in war. Dave said it himself, they haven't had conflict since the 70's.

Russia/Ukraine is a good example, old school push demand logistics to front line units failed as it restrained front line units range of manoeuvres leading to tanks with no gas and grunts with no food.

 

 

 

 

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Lol. Always good to read partisan views for a chuckle. 

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A lot of people confuse domestic policy with foreign policy. The United States is a flawed democracy, to put it mildly. Increasingly, it is closer to an oligarchy. But it is a hell of a lot freer, domestically, than China, which of course is a totalitarian police state.

That is domestic policy. It has just about zero to do with foreign policy. On that score, the US is the most violent, aggressive state in the world, by a large margin, and has been since 1945. It is responsible for the deaths of far more innocent people of *other* states (that is, foreigners, from a US perspective) than anyone else, millions and millions of people, for those who are familiar with the horrific history of its wars, direct and proxy, in Vietnam, Iraq, El Salvador, and many other places.

China, by comparison, is very peaceful internationally. One can't defend its Taiwan policy on moral grounds, but one can't defend the actions of any powerful state's actions on moral grounds. In any case, that has nothing to do with anything. If the US (and the West generally) cared about morality or human rights, they would do something about Israel's inhuman occupation and oppression of Palestine, amongst many other things.

China's main crime, in the real world dominated militarily by the US, is that it is succeeding economically, notably through its Belt and Road initiative, pretty much everywhere. Indeed, in many sectors the US can't compete with it anymore. So, the US is doing what it has always does, which is make military threats and act provocatively. Anyone who analyses the US foreign policy like that of any other powerful state (which is the rational thing to do) can see this.

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Good, balanced post.

Although perhaps you should use the past tense in terms of China succeeding economically.

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Balanced post? Who is making the military threats? It's not the US.

Yes the US has a abysmal record internationally, but in this instance the problem is not the US. Joe Smith (is that name real?) is correct re domestic v foreign policy. But China's foreign policy record isn't great, even though it is not as bad as the US's, either.

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I said China's foreign policy was peaceful in comparison with the US, not that it is beyond criticism.

The US has over 1000 military bases worldwide. Basically, it's an empire without historical precedent. However, it won't tolerate another state doing something similar, even to a fraction of a degree, as it has recently made clear re. the Solomon Islands: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/26/us-wont-rule-out-military… 

Leaders in the US routinely makes military threats and (more important) act provocatively, anywhere in the world. Pelosi's visit to Taiwan was extremely provocative, particularly when seen in the context of increased US efforts to encircle China with a hostile military alliance (with India, Japan, Australia, and, if the government here accedes, NZ). It was criticized within the US for being so, including, apparently, even by President Biden. In general, the US is being incredibly reckless in undermining the 'one China policy' that has prevailed for the last 50 years. 

Again, I think a lot of people have a hard time seeing US foreign policy for what it is, particularly vis-a-vis China, simply because one is a (flawed) democracy while the other is not at all.

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Very true, except China isn't a totalitarian police state as you would think it is.  That indicates the police control all of your daily lives, which is quite fantastical. In many ways when you are live there, you are free to do whatever the hell you want except critisize the governments right to rule. As nobody really gives a toss about most of the government, it frees you up to think about whatever else you want to.  Setting up businesses are easy, getting access to highly educated (though unimaginative) staff easy, going out partying to all hours of the night and falling over drunk in the street without repurcussions? Easy. Organise a protest (as a Chinese person) about issues that you really care about? Easy (though Western media thinks that's bullsh#t, I have had to walk through numerous protests first hand and guess what? The protestors usually get significant concessions). Generally everything is quite easy to do there, though they still have serious issues of access to good medical care, politicised justice systems and corruption. 

But it is Communist, so when you have to deal with officials, it becomes painful. Then again, thats also the case here.  Having built (or building) houses in both places, it takes 1/3 of the time in China, because once you have the stamp of approval, everything is done super fast and changes aren't really even considered material. Here, it's wait 6 months for approval (with no way to speed it up), then another 3 months for re-approval, another 3 months for a person to talk to you about one last check box, 6 months for everyone to have their say, another few months to incorporate everyones changes... its a never ending jerk fest that makes the Chinese system look efficient by comparison.

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I've never lived in China, and perhaps you're right that 'totalitarian police state' is too strong. However, the freedoms that its citizens do lack strike me (and I suspect most people in countries like NZ) as pretty important. If I had to pick between living in the US or China, I know which one I would choose.

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Yeah, it's only because people think their freedom to vote matters (when clearly Labour/National basically do the same thing), which it does, but only really in times of crisis (e.g. the last election where it was basically a vote for Labour keeping us safe from COVID) does it matter.  In China you spend a lot less time occupied with the government drama of the day and the press generally doesn't concern itself with it either. Nobody really cares about that stuff in China and you quickly realise how much time you have spent moaning/thinking about it all the time. In China, you are free of that, giving you a lot more mental capacity to think about other stuff that you can actually change.

That's a trade off, of course. In times of crisis the Chinese people don't really get to have a say about stuff, so there is a lot less freedom in that respect (think about Shanghai during the recent lock downs).  But the government knows that its license to govern is reliant on them providing better and better for their citizens. That's why they have built enormous amounts of infrastructure in the last few decades and keep a firm hand on the outrageous capitalism that has emerged there.  It has it's issues, day to day calling it a "totalitarian police state" is inaccurate, but could be accurate if things turn sour.

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"China has not been involved in an international military conflict since its 40 day incursion into Vietnam in 1979" Hmmm I wonder whether India would agree with this? Or the Philippines? (though building military bases on rocks in Philippine waters mightn't count to David as "conflict", since the Philippines were in no state to fight back). 

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I look forward to a world dominated by China. We'll see a commitment to democracy, rule of law, freedom of speech, a free press, freedom of movement, respect for human rights, you name it.

 

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China will take over Taiwan by force at ZERO minute when China is able to. Nothing to do with who visit Taiwan at any time in future or past. 

 

 

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