Government set to replace 3 year old BMW 7 series limousines with new models worth NZ$200,000 each. Your view?
In a move that may be difficult to present while talking about budget austerity, the government is set to replace its fleet of 34 luxury limousines with new BMWs valued at NZ$200,000 each after just 3 years in service.
NZ Herald reported Finance Minister Bill English confirming the replacement in of the fleet of BMW 7 series cars in a One News report.
English declined to say how much the cars would cost, citing commercial confidentiality.
Finance Minister Bill English told ONE News that "we could go out and buy second-hand cars".
"But one way or another cars need to be maintained and you have to renew them eventually," he said.
"Everyone else is having to tighten their belts and John Key is cutting staff, creating unemployment in order to apparently tighten the belt of government," Greens co-leader Metiria Turei said.
The editor of the car buyers' Dog and Lemon Guide told One News the BMW 7 Series was a "pre-credit crunch car".
"It's from an era of bloated stock brokers and dodgy loans and it looks completely out of place in this time in history," Clive Matthew-Wilson said.
The fleet change is expected to happen within the next few months, One News reported.
105 Comments
Selling them after 3 years seems crazy to me. These things last for much longer.
I bought my 1994 Toyota Windom in 2004 and it's still going strong. Cost me NZ$7,000 and hasn't skipped a beat since.
Now over 160,000ks.
Happy to sell it to Bill English for a tad under NZ$100,000....
Cheaper than these bloody Beamers...
Still can't quite believe they think they can get away with this just weeks after warning about fiscal crisis and the need to sells state assets.
Keep the current Beamers for another 3 years I say...
cheers
Bernard
Exactly GBH.
A "Windom" tells us a lot!! Especially an Auckland one with only 160ks on the clock after 17 years - I do double that rate in ChCh.
I would ask if Bernard leaves it parked in the garage all the time, but I don't think he has a garage! Much like the public transport using, chardonnay sipping, liberal elite.
Why not go out a buy a Porsche or Ferrari like a decent hard working bloke?
Personally not into cars.
Mine has wheels - gets it's warrent and goes and goes and goes. What more do I need.
Far better things to spend money on than "rolling future rust."
Don't have a problem with Crown having suitable cars. But the timing reeks.
Last time I checked was not a socialist.
I was talking to a BMW sales manager yesterday and he said that the Government is getting such a good deal on these cars they would be nuts not to do the business. Also there are no servicing cost for 3 years in the contract. Good advertising for BMW and a winner for the taxpayer. Cheers
Ahhh, if you believe that Ivan I have a nice 2001 BMW you can buy! Not too many problems (except for the fuel pump, the radiator, the electric windows, the rubber seals, a couple of suspension arms, not to mention all the consumables!). The old girl's parked up awaiting a new owner, but for the few thousand you could get for it, it's hardly worth the effort in selling.
Old cars doing high miles have far too many problems, although I can't criticise BMWs too much because our previous old mid 90s E36 did march on to over 300,000km (admitedly limping at the end).
If they are getting a fantastic deal from BMW it could be the cheapest strategy to replace the fleet and still get a good resale (probably still over half the original ticket price), especially if maintaining the cars to the highest standard is important.
Fleet of new BMW's is frankly chump change for Govt. But it's the principle and look that is woeful after "belt tightening" mantra.
Re-reading of Animal Farm makes even more sense these days.
I hope someone can drag out all the quotes from the then opposition from 3 years ago about the previous Lab Govt buying the BMWs back then.
Why not lease them?
How many miles do they clock up?
Bill English on Radio National this morning , claimed that the current government are locked into a contract to buy more BMW's , a contract signed by the previous government .
And it was the Greens who lobbied Helen Clark to get those expensive luxury BMWs , because the Greens erroneously thought that those cars had acceptable emissions standards . Apparently they don't .
Well Bernard , ready to retract , and to apologise ? ...... This " beat-up " story has nothing to do with the current gumnut ...... State Services are responsible . Some unknown minion signed off on the roll-over clause ( of the Labour-Greens contract , circa 2007/8 ) ....... And whalla , we have a fleet of new Beemers coming in , already in the country infact , to replace the existing fleet ......
..... Now you know what a grate fan of you I am , Bernie baby ( nyuk nyuk nyah ! ) ...... But this is not a piece of good journalism on your part , to parade upon your CV ...... The sharpening of knives .......... And the look of glee and avarice in the eyes of Alex / Gareth / David & Amanda ......... Join-the-dots , big guy ! Get the CV ready , doors may open ........ ( not limousine doors , sadly )
Yes, Internal Affairs said;
The value of the cars being sold was close to their purchase price
So, government buys with public money - uses the goods for three years - then (hopes to) sell back to the same public at roughly the same discounted cost they paid for them. Clever little minions.
Sure hope the DIA have a confirmed buyer for the fleet at their hoped for price - otherwise we might have to store them with the Skyhawks up in Ohakea. That said, I find it hard to believe that a department can approve this level of capital expenditure without reference to their boss (Minister).
Apparently $NZ 200 000 is the retail price of these cars . As other bloggers have noted , the Gumnut ( via State Services ) get a monster discount ........ It's a fleet of 34 , and ....... You ( the car manufacturer ) get enormous publicity / bragging rights , that you are the sole car supplier to a western government . ....
... And here's me , looking to get a 79 mpg Honda TMX 155 motorcycle for 69 000 pesos ( $NZ 2100 ) ........ Different lives and expectations , huh !
Hey Duke : Good to have you back . ......... I'm wondering if the new fleet measure up to Helen Clark's emissions standard ......'cos the last lot of BMWs didn't ! And that was the hypocritic face of the last government , constantly hectoring us on sustainability , light-bulbs , showerheads , and frigging folate in bread ....... and they bought a fleet of luxury BMWs which didn't even meet their own emissions standard ........
It's armoured alright. They don't call it a tank on wheels for nothing. It's so heavily modified it’s a bespoke car really, no doubt with a price to match? What, $500,000, $750,000 in our money? Who knows? But I don't think there's anything basic left in them. And isn’t there about 5-6 of them? But they are for the President and maybe the VP only. What would be more interesting is to find out is what do all the members of Cabinet ride around in, and then the leaders of the Congress. I bet you it's not a Dodge.
Funny thing, when I lived in America the President's limo was a source of pride to most Americans, not a source of mockery. Never heard them bitching about the cost of it either.
3 years is a joke, don't you buy expensive cars like this because they last?
Why can't they go back to the Holdens Statesmans and Ford Fairlanes etc? nothing at wrong with them, and cost about a quarter of the price.
I know something's wrong when I'm agreeing with Metiria Turei.
From memory Ford and Holden have stopped making the long wheel base limousines (Statesman and Ltd) and don't do a diesel so the government had to go for something else. Labour argued they got a special run-out price on the 7 series fleet they have now.
National can't argue the same.
cheers
Bernard
CR1
BMW 730LD 2008 (in Silver)29,664 2011, January 5th COF inspection 23.66/8,611 $2.03/14/62/741
at $1.23/litre 25,312 2010, July 5th COF inspection 45.01/16,384 $3.63/25/110/1,320
at $1.15/litre 17,163 2010, January 5th COF inspection 48.80/17,764 $3.62/25/110/1,316
at $1.06/litre 7,990 2009, July 1st COF inspection 20.06/7,303 $1.44/10/44/524
at $1.02/litre 4,478 2009, January 7th COF inspection 23.75/8,644 $2.37/17/72/864
at $1.43/litre 38 2008, July 4th COF inspection
- Make: BMW
- Model: 730LD
- Year: 2008
- Submodel: SEDAN 6A 4DR 3.0L
- Main colour: Silver
- Vehicle type: Passenger Car/Van
- Body style: Saloon
- No of seats: 5
- CC rating: 2,993cc
- Fuel type: Diesel
- Power: 170kW
- Transmission: 6-gear automatic
- Assembly type: Imported Built-Up
- Country of origin: Germany
- Gross vehicle mass: 2,440kg
- Tare weight: 1,940
- Axle type: 2-Axle
- No of axles: 2
- VIN: WBAHM42030DG69688
- Plate: CR1
- Plate type: Crown
- Engine no: 24536839
- Latest odometer reading: 29,664 Km (on 2011, January 5th, source: COF Inspection)
- Estimated current odometer reading: 30,657 Km
- Latest usage: 23.66 Km/day (8,611 Km/year)
- Estimated fuel cost: $2.31/day, $16/week, $70/month, $839/year
So about 10k a year. Would be in MINT condition.
This vehicle hardly used.
Key is an investment banker after all - You simply can not be serious having a three year old car.
Rolls Royce or a Maybach?
When does Key introduce MP Bonus'?
Key should also get a Eurocopter - its simply undignified to use Air NZ. Maybe South Canterbury have a couple going cheap?
Key is full of hot air. Talking austerity one week, fleet of new beamers the next. I see 6000 people turned up to an Aussie job fair at the weekend. Would you blame them? Why pay tax in a country that's sinking faster than the titanic, Key & his austerity talk is nothing but re-arranging deckchairs on the Titanic. I wish Key happiness with his fleet of beamers, his legion of beneficiaries & his following of property investors. All that will be left is a hollowed out shell of a once proud & beautiful nation.
As a former used car dealer, all I can say is that this is just plain dumb and wasteful behaviour. Everyone knows that the depreciation curve in the first three years is very steep. Particularly with luxury vehicles. My guess is that if they paid $200k three years ago they're now worth significantly less than half that value now. Would have been more efficient and easier to simply burn the cash wasted ($4m?)
If they're serious about being fiscally responsible, they're better to either lease cars, hold onto them for a few more years, or buy less luxurious vehicles. Yes, the cars need to be smart, but they don't have to be new or the latest model.
And the argument that they have to be top of the line because of foreign dignatories is absurd and all about image. But to compromise, why not have two or three latest models for such occasions and let the NZ ministers travel in the not-so-new ones?
The lack of financial savvy being displayed does not inspire confidence in taxpayers that the country's money is being well looked after.
We oughta send a message to the world , we are the boys from down on the farm . A fleet of Massey Ferguson tractors for parliamentarians is called for . ........ The image of a good Kiwi worker , in his gumboots , and trusty dog licking the back of his neck .
............ Any pollie who can't drive a tractor , gets one lesson down the back paddock ....... And failing that , you're out of a job yer flaming drongo !
Notice how Mr Goof is very quiet on this subject - it was Labour who signed the deal with BMW.
By the way, Statement or the Fairlane aren't available anymore so the govt might have to go to HSV Senator in 2014.. Nice car, showing who's the boss. Failing that i think they should get Great Wall as part of the FTA with China.
A fleet of Great Wall cars would certainly ensure a greater turn-over of politicians in our parliament ........... Until the Chinese upgrade , and stop mass producing metal-death-traps on wheels , that is ....
..... ahhhhhhhhh , what model do you recommend we get ?
The 4WD SUV of course, I think it's called X240 in black with all windows tinted black - just like those gangsters on the cheap... hold on they are a buch of gangsters..
Q: what the diff between Govt's BMW 7series and a cactus?
A: One with the pricks on the outside !
Morning Report this morning, failed to ask the 'build energy / build carbon question.
As with ALL financial commentators, they don't understand the physical world.
It takes almost 300,000km to have an injected vehicle overtake it's build energy, compared to continuing to use a naturally-aspirated model - all else (cc, weight) being equal.
For an injected to overtake an injected - doesn't happen. You're better running it into the ground - 500,000 km, garaged and pampered, is not unrealistic; even if that includes one engine recondition.
By which time, Ministerial cars will be the least of our worries:
natioinal have got to stop blaming previous government BS that keeps coming out and start to do something. John Key is really starting to irk a lot of people saying one thing and then doing complete opposite (I voted for him last election) but these cars are hardly used..come on ...except for the one Brownlee used..shocks have gone. Maybe they could give them to the Work and Income and they could lend them to those who have had there car impounded instead of forking out interest free loans.
A pity they can not disclose just how good a deal they are actually getting.. or not.. The financial justification if any would be interesting to see. An option could have been to just update a few of them for the more important individuals...
Well atleast the foreign nationals will get plenty of use of them during the World Cup and run up a few KM's.
Go for Great Wall, because:
1. Made in china - Will satisfy the FTA agreement
2. Keep chinese labour force going so that they can buy our stuffs (they may use child labour - who knows!)
3. Big enough to carry Gerry in great comfort
4. Great Wall X240 is a recycled Toyota Surf so it will have a green image of being recycleable.
5. Cheap and nasty (same as our politicians)
As a lefty lunatic lettuce, I'm an outraged at this monstrous waste. And I blame John Key for it and I have no doubt that he raced down to BMW and wrote out the check himself. That is how quickly he wanted to get his rapidly spreading arse into a new car, with our money!
This is totally uncalled for. In this day of environmental concerns, global warming, peak oil, they should all be on bikes. And Gummy is right when it comes to State occasions and welcoming Heads of State and other Prime Ministers. Yesterday he should have bowled up at the airport to pick up Gillard on a tractor. It would have been quite simple to lean over, give her a look and say, G'day mate. Jump on; I'm your a lift into town.
But that's the problem with you lefties, Kate, isn’t it? You guys just don't have a sense of humour you can’t see the humour in situations. Not everything is the dull earnestness of a socialist workers’ paradise you know. It’s but one of the reasons I feel sorry for folk on the left and why they are such fun to poke a stick at! Thanks for the laugh.
Yesterday
All his troubles seemed so far away
Now
It looks as though they're here to stay
Oh,
He believes (and ain't that the truth?)
in yesterday.
Why they had to go
I don't know, they wouldn't say
They'd only done
50.000 k
Suddenly
He's not half the man he used to be
cut short after Bellamys
the back seat's got no lavatree
Why he
had to go
now you know
I've had enough - fill in the rest yourselves.....
So hating 'hypocrisy' now makes people "looney and left"
What a thucking plonker! Last time I voted Labour OR National OR Green was .......ah lets see........NEVER!
Being that we are a 'socialist' country and have been for quite some time now I'd say every party is 'left' leaning
What an ignorant ass
Under MMP Bob Jones would have led a credible third party , and shaken up the Nats & Labour . .......... Under FPP , what he got for 20 % of the popular vote was nothing .
.......... Pity that someone with similar commonsense and charisma doesn't step up to have a go , at this year's election . .......... Anyone got big kahunas , Gareth Morgan ?
well, i'm a right wing radish and here's the facts:
1..The BMW's were purchased by the Labour Govt.
2..their warranty runs out after 3 years and if you've ever dealt with servicing a BMW yourself ..it's over the top expensive just to change the oil
3..they would've been originally purchased at a very below margin price for the free advertising it gives BMW...as will their replacements
4..perception is 9/10th of the law...we need to be seen to be more than just a bunch of hicks, lettuces or even radishes.
5..get a life and stop being so nanny state....those days have gone...onya bikes, ya tossers!
Rob : Yer right-wing-radish-tosser ( sounds 'like a salad-bar in a country pub ) , me little brudder treated himself to a Beemer ......... and a sporty wee number it was to drive , but when the service bill came in ( from a specialist BMW workshop ) he , much alike the German people themselves , totally lost his sense-of-humour .
......... Now he drives a Holden . Cobber-digger-mate !
Rob - have been pondering your point 3 too.
Anyone know what the 'old' ones actually cost?
What govt. will get for them?
How this difference compares to a lease cost?
How about Int.co, Bernard, David, do an OIA on this to find out. This is causing a reasonable stir and maybe govt. would yield the information to help get this in perspective, especially considering many of the comparative complaints stated here, eg. cuts to early childhood education. If it's agood deal, what have they got to hide? [Might even get a better deal out of Mercedes, Lexus, or Hummer next time round ....]
Cheers, Les.
1. Yes, dumber than a tossed salad.
2. As above.
3. Who gives a toss about how BMW makes their salad profitable.
4. Agreed - which is why a hybrid in today's salad stakes would have added so much more nutritional value.
5. Green has got nothing to do with "nanny state". We had some relations from the US here on holiday recently - believe me - that clean green image is worth one heck of a lot of salad dressing.
5) Agree, nothing to do with nany state.....I dont think BE was thinking of Green....he said a more mainstream model.......so he prob means a gas guzzling Holden or a Ford......
Funny but NZ has a Green image....so ministers running around in MIEV's and Prius's makes sense political sense and huge green capital....sure a few bigger cars.....for state occasions...
regards
You can have any garage to service them, you don't have to use the dealer agents, and this will save heaps. Wonder if they will be sold on trademe, and wonder what they are now worth. They may get back close to what they originally spent on them, although with a new model out, I doubt it. I don't know who the market is for that sort of car in NZ, apart from the govt.
It is however the 'percepion' that they are spending up big, when many people are hurting during this very long recession.
Same old problem, public servants want to be big shots.
I pay my taxes and spend my money how I want, if I want fast cars and loose women, then so be it, I earned it, I spend it.
Politicians want what I may have, but want someone else to foot the bill where it starts to go wrong..
Usually a fleet of these sorts is seen in corrupt countries and/or dictatorships.
I have no problem with government officials having nice cars for official engagements, but a fleet of 7 series beamers is OTT.
But on the other hand where can I buy one of these low mileage well serviced beauties. One persons folly is a another persons gain.
Why not cars like Celia shows here?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4662008/Australian-PM-Julia-Gi…
Mind you. Some slightly heavier folk may not be able to fit into them.
Cheerio,
Miss Astrid
I once took a job as a divisional manager in a fast paced, high energy, high revenue, highly competitive sales environment. All the sales people were equipped with Mitsubishi Galants and managers got to choose their vehicles. The MD suggested I should look at BMWs. I chose a Mitsubishi GTO instead.
I agree - it's all about image - BMWs say nothing positive about the government of NZs ambitions/intentions or personality type. They (in my opinion) are a "wanna be" car.
Hybrid vehicles would have been a better symbollic fit for NZ - and given we are more a part of the Asia-Pacific community than Europe, Lexus/Toyota would have been the logical choice.
I wonder if the current fleet will be sold in the next few months.
If it does gets sold before the election then I would be interested to know the sale process and if the general public are allowed to buy them.
These cars would be a bargain if sold at its DEPRECIATED value.
Government set to replace 3 year old BMW 7 series limousines with new models at NZ$200,000 each x 34.
The only answer: Sack the Prime Minister including the ones (Ministers) behind that and other irresponsible decisions.
This is a clear indication that our parliamentarians in power still don’t know what’s hitting us economically, fiancially and socially as a nation in the next few years.
Too many actions/ inactions are fundamentally wrong in this country - leading to prohibitively costs and suffering - wake up younger generation – start the revolution – before “NZwars” take over.
My God Winston - and a few others !
To make parliamentarians accountable - keep on eye on them - and vote for people not for parties.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/mps-expenses?label=MPs'+Expenses
I don't know if anyone else remembers a very similar argument in the early 90's when at the time Bolger was saying things like "it's time for all NZder's to tighten their belts". While at the same time splashing out nearly 100thou each on luxury vehicles for those gravy trainers.
How times have changed, NOT
At the time the government bought the current fleet of BMWs I'm sure I read somewhere they paid $90k for each car. They'll probably recoup that when they sell them. The $200k retail figure is meaningless. Do you think rental car companies pay retail for a new fleet of Toyotas? Hell no. The car manufacturers battle each other out to win these major fleet deals.
This is typical of small town NZ at play - the newspapers do a great job of stirring it up. Govt should have good, tidy cars and they should be replaced every 3 years. What kind of international image do you want to portray - Banana Republic? In fact thats not right because the first thing any self respecting dictator does is buy a big black Merc! Tinted windows of course.
The PM should have hisown plane too- Airforce one which would actually put his time to better use - thats why Peter Jackson has one. But imagine the press if the PM had a Lear jet!
Hey sore-loser
Or should that be SORE-loser, or sore-LOSER
Learn how (not) to use your Caps key. USING CAPITAL LETTERS IS SHOUTING.
And your contributions are not worth shouting about.
As for the cars, who cares? They're just cars for Goodness sake, and of course I would expect our politicians to project the image of a successful country. No good turning up to a school visit in the family Falcon. The kids would never vote for you. Mind you, teachers don't vote National anyway.
I owned a BMW 525 and it was junk. Noisy, heavy, lumbering and cost a fortune to maintain. Don't ever let them get out of warranty.
Imagine that you invite a guest to a family dinner. A modest but adequate dinner with some home grown vege's and a fresh apple crumble in the stove. Money's tight but everyone contributed something in effort and food.....there's enough and the people make the occasion. Kids laughing and Granddad with the newest grandchild.
The hypothetical guest arrives in their new BMW beeping his horn and parks across the driveway in front of the old ute and the family station wagon. In their pin stripe suit and portulent belly the BMW owner take the seat at the head of the table and talks about themselves and how wonderful their life is. They then take a 1/3rd of all the food in front of them and proceed to stick their nose in every plate and dish and taking nibbles here and there. Finally after eating nearly everything else at the table they take 'their' 1/3 leaving some crackers and brussel sprouts...declaring it a generous gift for the family (no, no don't thank me!). Being a polite and humble family they are shocked and humiliated but know they aren't capable of defending themselves. They let them leave but they resent the look of a BMW every time they see one and all it stands for.
Our politians no doubt consider that they're deserving of a little treat after a hard year of 'doing stuff': Making decisions, making statements, thinking about important $hit.......hmmm the mahogany trim and cream leather perhaps? But it's behaviour that clearly runs against the grain of not only the current economic reality but also deeply emmedded cultural values......except perhaps for narcissistic parasites that would like to convey a false prestige at the expensive of others or they just don't get it.
These people are takers not makers.
In fairness, there is probably a pretty good case for the invoking of the roll-over clause. You’ve got to remember that this was done by a DIA bean-counter, without political input, so the financial equation probably made sense.
Buying a vehicle for three years, then selling it, is pretty similar to leasing, except there is a larger capital outlay for those three years, which is why most corporations use lease companies. Indeed, a lot of government departments use lease companies because it’s good accountancy.
From the figures quoted for the vehicles (and these are probably off-the-record fairly accurate estimations), the government is probably getting these at close to cost price. BMW may not be making much profit on these vehicles from the sale, especially if they’re a run-out; profit would come from servicing the vehicles through-out their life (BMW make the parts, so it’s a captive market).
In this case, BMW will service the vehicles and then sell them to the public over the next few months. In fact, the ‘cost’ of leasing is paid for by private buyers since mass selling of ex-fleet vehicles results in faster depreciation of non-fleet vehicles, since three years down the track their value is measured against ex-fleet.
If you as a private individual paid $190k in 2007 for a BMW 7 series, and you want to sell it, you’ll probably want about $100k for it. But if the Government paid something like $100k for it NEW in 2007, you’ll see that based on the resale value they’re getting a pretty good deal. It’s the schmuck who paid full price in 2007 and is looking to sell their vehicle in a few months when the government vehicles flood the market that will be cursing.
Clive Matthew-Wilson, editor of the car buyers' Dog & Lemon Guide, said the cars were likely to fetch $55,000 to $65,000 each at auction now or up to 30 per cent more than that if sold via a dealer. "
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10706832
Perhaps one of you Beanies could crank the numbers, compare, see how adrift things are.
"Might be a quid to be made 'ere, Terrance my son."
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