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Govt should wait until Sept report before selling Mighty River shares, Waitangi Tribunal says; Means sale process shouldn't be delayed if water rights are found to be preserved

Govt should wait until Sept report before selling Mighty River shares, Waitangi Tribunal says; Means sale process shouldn't be delayed if water rights are found to be preserved

By Alex Tarrant

The government should hold off selling up to 49% of Mighty River Power until the Waitangi Tribunal has completed the first stage of a report on whether Maori water rights would be preserved following the sale of shares, the Tribunal says.

With the first stage of the report to be issued in September, that means the sale may not be delayed at all.

However, the position of claimants led by the Maori Council, that selling shares would impinge on Maori water rights and therefore should not proceed, was "not an implausible one," the Tribunal said.

The government is looking to start the sale process of Mighty River Power shares in September, and can wait until the first week of December to complete the initial public offering, the Tribunal noted in a memorandum released on Monday afternoon following submissions from the Crown, and Iwi opposed to the sale, at a hearing through July.

Minister for State Owned Enterprises Tony Ryall said the government was considering the interim direction and would seek advice on the government's position. Ministers would also meet with Maori Party leadership "as we develop our respective positions," he said.

'Not implausible'

"Regardless of whether the claimants' evidence, in our deliberations and stage one report, is found to establish a connection between any Treaty rights in water and the sale of shares in the companies in question - and, further, whether such a connection establishes a Treaty breach on the part of the Crown - the claimants' position as put to us at this stage is not an implausible one," the Tribunal said.

"Where the Crown alters the nature of the shareholding of a Crown owned body utilising freshwater resources, it is in our view arguable that this may alter its ability, either in a legal or practical sense, to recognise any proven Treaty rights in such resources, or to remedy their breach," it said.

Read the full memorandum here.

Could the Crown remedy Treaty breach if shares sold?

The claims before the Tribunal were premised on the argument that to sell shares in the power-generating Mixed Ownership Model companies - Mighty River, Meridian and Genesis Energy - would compromise the Crown's ability to recognise Maori Treaty rights in water and remedy this prior breach, the Tribunal said.

"Clearly, were shares in one or more Mixed Ownership Model companies sold prior to the Tribunal's [September] report, the Crown would have limited its ability to address the report if the Tribunal finds in favour of the claimants," it said.

"We are aware that were the Tribunal to make recommendations in favour of the claimants in its stage one report, the Crown has stated that it could repurchase any shares sold in the Mixed Ownership Model companies. This is, however, only a partial factor in weighing the balance of convenience, as the shares, once sold, can only be repurchased from a willing seller and may require a prohibitively expensive outlay," the Tribunal said.

"The only other option available to the Crown, were it to wish to return the Mixed Ownership Model companies to full Crown ownership, would be to pass legislation compulsorily reacquiring the shares sold in the companies,' it said.

The sale of shares in Mixed Ownership Model companies could therefore cause a significant disadvantage to the claimants, were their claims to be determined to be well-founded by the Tribunal, it said.

But think of the Crown too

"The delay of an initial public offering of Mixed Ownership Model company shares would, however, have significant implications for the Crown. Crown counsel have stressed to us the complicated and detailed work involved in preparing a share float of this nature," the Tribunal said.

"They have also submitted that the sale of shares in the power-generating Mixed Ownership Model companies is a major policy initiative of the current government. That point is well made and accepted by us.

"The Tribunal must always take care in considering whether to direct that the Crown ought to delay a policy initiative, particularly one of this scale (and upon which budgetary considerations and other policy initiatives are dependant), to enable an as-yet-unproven claim to be heard and recommendations made," it said.

"The inconvenience to the Crown of a prolonged delay to the proposed share sale would clearly exist.

'May not delay things'

The timing of the proposed share float was an important factor in assessing the balance of convenience, and with the Tribunal planning to release its stage one report in September, it may be that in reality the Crown's planned share float may not be delayed at all (or might only be subject to a minimal delay), the Tribunal said.

"The Crown's witness, Mr John Crawford, Deputy Secretary of the Treasury, advised that the latest possible time for selling shares this year in the September-December slot is the first week in December," it said.

Wait for this:

State one of the report, to be released in September, would cover:

a) What rights and interests (if any) in water and geothermal resources were guaranteed and protected by the Treaty of Waitangi?

b) Does the sale of up to 49 per cent of shares in power-generating SOE companies affect the Crown's ability to recognise these rights and remedy their breach, where such breach is proven?

i) Before its sale of shares, ought the Crown to disclose the possibility of Tribunal resumption orders for memorialised land owned by the mixed ownership model power companies?

ii) Ought the Crown to disclose the possibility that share values could drop if the Tribunal upheld Maori claims to property rights in the water used by the mixed ownership model power companies?

c) Is such a removal of recognition and/or remedy in breach of the Treaty?

d) If so, what recommendations should be made as to a Treaty-compliant approach?

See the Tribunal's concluding remarks from its report below:

Conclusion

58. As previously stated, this is an issue of national importance. It is also an issue which has been before Maori and the Crown for a considerable time, a fact which is reflected in the previous Waitangi Tribunal reports on freshwater and geothermal issues and in the acknowledgments made by Maori and the Crown during the hearing of this claim.

59. In the interests of the Maori-Crown relationship, and all New Zealanders, the issues raised in this stage of the inquiry are serious ones that warrant measured consideration.

60. We also consider that the balance of convenience favours maintenance of the status quo.

61. We therefore conclude that the Crown ought not to commence the sale of shares in any of the Mixed Ownership Model companies until we have had the opportunity to complete our report on stage one of this inquiry and the Crown has had the opportunity to give this report, and any recommendations it contains, in-depth and considered examination.

62. Finally we consider the words of Cooke P in the Radio Frequency (No.1) case are apposite to this situation:

"In short I am driven to hold that no reasonable Minister, if he accepted that the Crown is bound to have regard to Waitangi Tribunal recommendations on Maori broadcasting, could do other than allow the Tribunal a reasonable time for carrying out its inquiry. To allocate frequencies without waiting would be to abort its inquiry and probably contrary also to the purpose of the Treaty of Waitangi Act 1975. It would deprive the Government of the day of the opportunity of taking into account in an effective way highly relevant considerations, namely the findings to be made by the Tribunal."

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61 Comments

"We are aware that were the Tribunal to make recommendations in favour of the claimants in its stage one report, the Crown has stated that it could repurchase any shares sold in the Mixed Ownership Model companies. This is, however, only a partial factor in weighing the balance of convenience, as the shares, once sold, can only be repurchased from a willing seller and may require a prohibitively expensive outlay," the Tribunal said.

"The only other option available to the Crown, were it to wish to return the Mixed Ownership Model companies to full Crown ownership, would be to pass legislation compulsorily reacquiring the shares sold in the companies,' it said.

 

Who is responsible for boldly ignoring this situation in addition to my own perceived ownership rights not being addressed?

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Seems wierd to me, the water will still exist. Unless of course its purely about more handouts which I suspect it is.

The pointless fight over the shrinking cake continues.

regards

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Steven says: the water will still exist

 

Are you really sure?

 

The philosopher heraclitus said you can't step into the same river twice .. by the time you step in the second time the water has changed. parmenides said you cant step into the same river once, its changing as you enter. I went through a thousand rivers before I got waist deep ...

 

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...you can't step into the same river twice .. by the time you step in the second time the water has changed...

 

"...time is an abstraction at which we arrive through the changes of things.” Thus, time as such does not exist but only change. Much of my research has been devoted to the implications of this insight. I have shown how, alongside the relativity of motion, the notion of time as change can be built into the foundations of dynamics".- Julian Barbour

 

I can highly recommend the first edition of his book  The End of Time.

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yes, its h20....maybe a human's prespective changes, dont know guess I'd have to read the work to get the context, Im lacking any from reading your reply just what he was implying.

 

regards

 

 

 

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Best way to get rid of a taniwha? Throw $3M at the local iwi. No joke.

Why has the water rights issue cropped up now all of sudden? Because iwi want more money for something that they think they own. It's not about mana or them loving the land or them being tied to the land spiritually, its about money. If it was truly about a spiritual connection to land or water in this case, money would not suffice, AT ALL. I have a spiritual connection to some things, and if someone offered me money for them, I would tell them that all the money in the world could not compensate me for their loss.

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Why has the water rights issue cropped up now all of sudden?

 

It is not "all of a sudden" by any means - see for example the .pdf I linked above.

 

I have a spiritual connection to some things, and if someone offered me money for them, I would tell them that all the money in the world could not compensate me for their loss.

 

Consider yourself lucky then to be in the position to refuse to part with these spiritually important things.  Maori tribal groups however have not got that luxury as in most cases someone else has claimed a property right over them via an historical illegal confiscation.  Where monetary payment is concerned with respect to tribal settlements, it in the main relates to those lands/possessions illegally taken - where Maori were not a willing seller (hence breaching the Treaty).  

 

The burden of proof (legal evidence) that such land/possessions were never willingly sold is what the Tribunal considers in these individual iwi/hapu (tribal) cases.

 

They differ to the present case you are discussing - which has been taken not by an inidivdual iwi/hapu - but rather by a pan-Maori organisation.   This is more likened to the fisheries and the radio spectrum claims/settlements.  Indeed both of those matters were only taken in response to the Government of the day asserting its "ownership" of those resources and its intention to sell legal title (i.e. transfer ownership) to private individuals/entities.

 

 

 

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This is more likened to the fisheries and the radio spectrum claims/settlements.  Indeed both of those matters were only taken in response to the Government of the day asserting its "ownership" of those resources and its intention to sell legal title (i.e. transfer ownership) to private individuals/entities.

 

Interesting Kate- I guess your time at MED exposed you to the realities of this development.

 

How can the Key government seem not be on top of this prior to all the supposed positive voter mandate confirmation declarations, or am I missing something?

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good point.....

regards

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How can the Key government seem not be on top of this ..

 

Yeah the whole thing does seem to be quite poorly executed.  I'd say everyone in officialdom expected the challenge .. the 'spanner' in the works was Key's dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb - stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid "ignore" statement on national television (the breakfast programme at that - a format I don't think Helen Clark ever gave the time of day to - but I could be wrong?) - a faux pas of immense proportion with significant legal repercussions/implications, I suspect.

 

Key's remark will cost.  I suspect the Government will cut a deal (they generally have in the past - aside from Helen Clark that is with the F&S - and look how that cost .. not the nation/taxpayers .. but the Labour Party).    

 

Because of Key's naivety - the Crown's negotiating position has been severely impacted - the option for 'good faith consideration' followed by refusal to accept the findings - no longer seems a defendable option.  So a sweet deal it will be.  

 

And given the Government has already outlined the 'loyalty bonus' giveaway - by the time they create a share parcel for a pan-Maori entity (that's the most likely deal, I assume, but whether it is what the NZ Maori Council want will be interesting) - who knows what kind of price they will be able to get for what is left to the 'market'.

 

 PS - I suspect if the NZ Maori Council take shares - they would be looking to take some of the Government's (Crown's) 49% - as ultimately then through further acquisition they might aspire to become the majority shareholder - and hence the strongst voice in terms of future utilisation and management of the dependent freshwater resources.   After all, it is governance of these resources (taonga) that is their fundamental concern/interest (i.e. in accordance with kaitiaki and reciprocity obligations).

 

 

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All you say has huge importance, I guess, for adherence to trade deal contracts and foreign business seeking unfettered access to energy if they were considering setting up here - This will save or send New Zealand back to the Stone Age, and I definitely think it's a binary outcome  - thank God I have two passports.

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"After all, it is governance of these resources (taonga) that is their fundamental concern/interest"

What utter rubbish. This is about money - nothing more nothing less.

If power prices rise as a result of this dont any of you who are pushing the claims barrow complain.......

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Power prices will rise regardless, and natural gas price rises certainly need to be investigated now - which monopoly currently benefits most etc?

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So the fact that they will go up anyway means its perfectly acceptable to load further cost pressure in there ?

Good luck selling that to middle NZ who are struggling to make ends meet. Any money that Maori get out of this will remain under the control of the "Maori elite" whilst their people will foot the cost of higher power bills.

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I am in the camp steadfastly against any sale - crown assets remain citizens' collective assets as far as I am concerned and hence no need for the nonsense Kate describes.

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My first preference is to not sell the assets either, but considering the alternatives (higher taxes and/or more borrowing and/or cuts to services and/or cuts to benefits) then I consider the part-sale to be "least bad".

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but considering the alternatives (higher taxes and/or more borrowing and/or cuts to services and/or cuts to benefits) then I consider the part-sale to be "least bad".

 

Therefore Kate is right about that which will follow - should our leaders and their bureaucrats have thought it through beforehand?

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They were actually discussing this back almost 5-6 years ago. Do you watch the Maori channel Kate? Most Maori don't but I do. 

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Yes, Justice, we sure do watch that channel lots.  Excellent documentaries and some great movies too.  Te Karere on TV1 is also really useful (aside from the fact that I can't figure out how to get the English subtitles).  It amazes me how what makes up this news broadcast - largely never makes OneNews.  The latter are doing us all a serious injustice really - as who cares about the Batman psycho in comparison to what's happening socially and constitutionally every day right here at home.

 

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"wait" for a rainy day maybe?

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Muppet King, Well we agree on this matter entirely. What a mess NZ has gotten itself into here - every MMP government  has been bedevilled by this waitangi nonsense and probably every one ever will. A better stint on the "Treaty" can be got from Judge Prendergasts 1877 Judgment in Wi Parata v the Bishop of Wellington, than the activist nonsense of Cooke. One can see now why in 1986 the Royal Commission on the Electoral System found that the maori seats ought be abolished. Oh for a Prime Minister of real quality one day that could carry the country to return democracy and equality before the law.

Ergophobia

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Seems it is you that speaks nonsense, or are at hold in ill informed opinion.

"I will demonstrate, too, that many of the facts of the dispute are incorrectly  stated in the law report, and that it was not Prendergast but Richmond  who was the primary author of the judgment"   But thankyou for raising the case, I will make an effort to find this book on it.
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The problem is the law is a white man's law....return to democary and equality by your defination is let the white men rule again with no adequate voice for anyone else, that isnt my defination of democracy.

regards

 

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Steven - "the problem is white man's law". One needs to ask whether the Treaty Settlements were mean't to be so wide and encompassing? The Treaty Settlements were meant to address the issues of the Crown who took land or in many cases held ownership and paid the Maori the same rent/lease monies as at the time they took over the land from the Maori. This is an issue of Politically interference and abuse by those controlling the State at the time and it has been turned into one of Race. 

 

My Great Grandmother (a Maori) owned land in her own right, I even have copies of the land titles. She didn't lose this land because of racist "white man's law" - she lost her land because she was a female. Females were not allowed to own land in their own right. This loss was not because of RACE it was because of GENDER inequality at the time.  Women were far from being treated equal under the law and were stripped of their assets in their entirety leaving many destitute and unable to take care of their families.

Now imagine the cost to the country if every family who had a female member stripped of their assets decided they wanted to be compensated for the Government seizing those assets.  We could call it the Womens Restoration of assets Court. 

If there is one thing any of us should have learnt it is that Government and its agencies need to be resticted in their size, scope and duties or they will impede on anyones fundamental rights at the expense of everyone else further down the track.

 

Many Maori are utterly embarrassed by the Treaty Settlements and some have left the country on a permanent basis to escape the BS that they don't wish to identify with.  The peer pressure within the parameters of their Iwi have been so significant that they have felt the need to escape from their country.  People of Maori descent are not treated equally within their Iwi group and and are sometimes abused.  So don't go moaning that it is white mans law that causes the problems when it is an in-house issue of inequality.

 

Water is a life supporting capacity for everyone and therefore democracy if properly implemented would recogise this fundamental right of everyone to have equal share in the most basic human necessity and the benefits that it offers such as power generation.

Freedom of choice allows for all people to make the personal decision on whether to invest or not.  NZBORA and Universal Declaration on Human Rights offers equality to all regarless of their race, gender, etc.  Equality is equal opportunity - it is still up to the individual to practice freedom of choice in taking up any opportunity on a competitive neutral basis.

 

It is not "whites mans law" it is everyone's law!

 

 

 

 

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A good portion of the water flowing down the Waikato is diverted from the headwaters of the Whanganui.  It is diverted through turbines and dumped into Lake Taupo and therfore arguably on down to the Waikato.  So I guess Tainui have Whanganui Iwi water fowing down 'their' river.  Bring on the inter tribal litigation.....an everlasting legal feast for the lawyers........and so the pony show will re-invent itself for ever and into eternity.....Great work and so well paid.

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I think the kapiti council wanted to take water from a river near otaki to feed into the kapiti water system, the "locals" said no unless they were paid off.

If that is true then expect to see the waitangi farce recommend in the future that the Govn compensate both parties in such cases rather then iwi sueing iwi as you suggest above.

Really at some point the entire thing has to have closure.....the ppl alive today didnt do the bad things but are paying for it.....

regards

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This whole thing is the most ridiculous notion I have ever heard. Water is the source of all life and cannot be owned

The water has been flowing thru the generators for scores of years.

Why did this not crop up when the power generatorswere  first built ?

Exactly what has changed ?

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The gravy train of genuine cases for compensation is drying up, so they need to get inventive to justify the continued handouts.

regards

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Indeed the issue of taking and diverting water for power generation has been contested for many years - as illustrated by past Whanganui iwi challenges regarding the river's management (the earliest on record being 1873);

 

http://nz01.terabyte.co.nz/ots/DocumentLibrary%5CWhanganuiRiverROU.pdf

 

As food sources were impacted, entire settlements had to be abandoned, people/families displaced and ways of life forever altered.   The same has been true for coastal iwi. 

 

From what I have seen/read in evidence given at various hearings, local iwi do not argue for payment in exchange for resource use but rather for their right to protect, nurture and look after these historical tribal resources by way of shared decision-making.   The problem as I see it is the inability for most Governments to accept a shared governance model - and hence Maori are forced to contest notions based on "ownership". 

 

"Ownership" is what the Crown asserts - not Maori.

 

 

 

 

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Question then; if ownership doesn't mean a right to protect, nuture and look after - what does it mean?

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A right to exploit, destruct and sell.

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Well done.

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A lot of cross purpose talking filled with resentments on both sides awaits then.

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Good perspective, thanks

 

regards

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if maori get ownership of the water then the first thing that they should do is turn off the taps to the brewerys because booze not smoking is doing more damage to the whanau.

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na, just get the beer delivered, free.

regards

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If Maori get ownership of the water , are they responsible if a flood occurs and there's extensive property damage ?

 

.... and what if it rains too much , and I can't get the laundry dry on an outside line , can I send them the bill from a commercial laundromat .....

 

Wandering around in gummified undies is no laughing matter !

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No, but Haribo called and they have something to say about your pseudonym.

 

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I like the Australian "concept" established by the High Court in the Eddie Mabo decision known as the "Mabo Case" which established the existence and protection of "Traditional Use" as distinct from Ownership.

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it's not about the water, it's about the money.

Every move that New Zealand makes has Maori looking for how they can blackmail some cash out of it.  It's time this nonsense was stopped.

The Treaty of Waitangi made us on nation and one system of law.  Maori need to abide by that and stop opportunistic rorting.  The ToW did not envisage a racial group with divines rights and privileges.

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Are you sure it's just Maori looking for how they can blackmail some cash out of it.  Mankind looks to get cash out of anything they can.  Mankind believes they have divine rights and privileges over everything.

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Let's just have an armed conflict and be done with it, I'm totally sick of pandering to Maori and now they want to claim that they own the barest necessity of life to the whole country. That is something I will go to war over. It's come down to this really. These greivances happened over ONE HUNDRED YEARS ago, why am I having to pay for them now? I wasn't even alive then!

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MK - no need for armed conflict (virtually all that could be confiscated already has been via such conflict).  The NZ First Party has the answers from a policy/constitutional perspective.  The biggest impediment to the status quo would be Winston being in charge.  I believe that if in change of the Executive branch of government - he would single-handedly solve all this through statute amendment and the imbedding of an air-tight NZ Constitution going forward. 

 

 

 

.

 

 

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I believe that the Maori philosophy behind ownership of something is as follows - Kate please correct me if I am wrong.

Say if I was a soldier in 1840's and I wanted to buy some land and I gave a maori man 10 muskets in trade for a farm, would it be the Maori understanding that I had that land for the rest of my lifetime but once I died that land then goes back to the person/family that owned it in the first place? I reckon thats the Maori idea of ownership, I'm probably wrong. This seems to me like a leasehold agreement without ground rent.

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You are talking about a lease transaction - whereas the issues being investigated by the courts in terms of unique parcels of land relate to actual registered titles where it can be proven (and the onus is on the applicant to prove) that such lands were taken without the willing consent of the Maori/tribal owner and subsequently titles were registered illegally.  So, if I understand your question correctly - no, Maori and the courts fully understand the nature of legal title.  From the history I've read - the colonial state made it very difficult for Maori land owners to represent their claims and subsequently register their own titles - and hence why so much of the land was able to be illegally taken.

 

 

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That being said, does that mean that Maori will have legal title to water? If there is a big rock on my land and I own the legal title to that land do I own the rock? I think so. So if Maori own the land on which water is on, because that water flows through the land do they own it? I don't believe so. Why not try to own the air? The air is on their land isn't it, do Maori have a propreitary right of people breatheing? It seems they think they might. I just do not understand the logic here.

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That being said, does that mean that Maori will have legal title to water?

 

Presently, anyone with a consent to take and/or divert water has a legal right and it seems these rights are effectively in perpetuity (if Court rulings where hydro schemes are concerned) to that water.  So, I suppose if such rights already exist - what is the problem with such rights, if intended to be privatised, being held by Maori interests?

 

A share is a share is a share - a consent is a consent is a consent - a title is a title is a title.  If it is not to be retained in public ownership - that is, owned by all NZers as it is now - why shouldn't Maori contest private ownership just like any other NZer might. 

 

All NZers had a chance to assert their rights to these assets at the general election - effectively handing the NZ Maori Council the baton, so to speak.

 

If you voted National at the last election - then effectively you precipitated the present legal challenge.  No sense complaining now.

 

 

 

 

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Absolutely - that's why I voted for Winston.

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...... so that was you ! ...... I've should've guessed . Winnie will be extremely chuffed .

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You are confusing rights of ownership and rights of use.  They are not the same thing.

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Exactly what the NZ Maori Council are arguing at the moment.  Whilst the Governement exercises its use rights to water take and diversion on behalf of all NZers with respect to a public asset - Maori have no issue.  However, when the Government decides to parcel up the benefits of those use rights into private ownership parcels - then they do have issue.

 

 

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Are you suggesting Mighty River have legal ownership of the water they use?

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No, MRP have use rights - the Government has ownership of the benefits derived from those use rights - and the Government seeks to transfer the ownership of the benefits derived from those use rights to the private sector.

 

If the Government had not sought to transfer those benefits - there would be no challenge from Maori.

 

Private interests have long claimed legal rights to public resources and open spaces - take any boat berth in a harbour for example.  Why do you find these various forms of 'ownership concepts so new?  I understand in many jurisdictions - one can also seek title to the airspace above an existing building, for example.  Maori aren't the ones 'inventing' these new forms of 'title'.  In their society you 'owned' what you could 'defend' - and so now they are defending via the courts as opposed to via the mere.

 

More power to them.  Over time they have proven themselves highly adaptable.

 

 

 

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Unless MRP have no use contracts for water in place (right to use) then I don't see the big deal.

 

Selling a share in a company doesn't give the new share holder any rights under any supply contracts MRP may have.  The benefit to a shareholder is simply a dividend.

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I don't see the big deal.

Now you've really lost me? 

 

So, if it's all such a non-issue then surely the Courts will see it your way :-) ... relax.

 

 

 

 

 

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Oh I'm relaxed.  Just thought there was more to it I guess.

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The benefit to a shareholder is simply a dividend.

 

As an owner of  financial assets I have exercised additional privileges beyond collecting the income - power over others often being the main additional benefit if you will excuse the pun. Pledging them as collateral against further asset purchases rates quite highly too. 

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Good point and EXACTLY why the government have NO right to divide ANY publicly owned entity or enterprise utilizing natural resources owned by us ALL WITHOUT a critical citizen binding referendum regardless of election results that cover a multitude of issues many average NZder's can't even comprehend 

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@ Kate Re: Winston

Well, I wish our ruling representatives could come to the same conclusion - continuous demands on the government purse for private legal services and consultants serves the purposes of the favoured few. But I and I guess others wish to put a halt to it.

 

I am never sure when ex-partners of private service providers enter parliament they can resist filling the pockets of former peers to make up for possible failure to do so in the past. 

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There's a legal name for this type of activity - I wonder if the Managing Editor permits it to be levelled at those concerned on this page without his intervention.

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