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Tuesday's Top 10 with NZ Mint: New Aussie laws may block loans to over 35s; Brazil eyes tariffs on Chinese imports; Key vs Wiesel on TPPA backflip; Dilbert

Tuesday's Top 10 with NZ Mint: New Aussie laws may block loans to over 35s; Brazil eyes tariffs on Chinese imports; Key vs Wiesel on TPPA backflip; Dilbert

Here are my Top 10 links from around the Internet at 10 to 11 am, brought to you in association with New Zealand Mint for your reading pleasure.

I welcome your additions and comments below, or please send suggestions for tomorrow's Top 10 at 10 via email to bernard.hickey@interest.co.nz.

I'll pop any surplus suggestions I get into the comment stream.

1. How curious - New consumer lending in laws in Australia may force banks to stop lending to people older than 35. Really. This is a fascinating twist on the idea that older people shouldn't be taking on more debt.

The big issue, or course, is the exit strategy.

How will those older borrowers repay the debt if they can't sell their over-valued houses to greater fools.

This is one of the big risks of the next 20 years. How will retiring baby boomers be able to pay for their retirements without unloading their properties at high prices.

This would be one solution to unaffordable housing.

Watch this space. Here's the Courier Mail. HT Paul via email.

ANYBODY aged over 35 could be rejected and effectively barred from getting a new mortgage, even if they are just refinancing an existing mortgage, under responsible lending guidelines in the new National Consumer Credit laws. And anybody aged in their 40s or older who applies for any kind of credit can expect to be asked to demonstrate significant other assets or superannuation savings.

Under the new guidelines any mortgage applicant over 35 with little superannuation and no other investments would be rejected by banks, brokers and all other lenders for a 30-year residential mortgage, said Geoff Baldwin, the chief executive of real estate group ReMAX.

``The NCCP (credit protection Bill) is effectively discriminating against some borrowers on the basis of age,'' Mr Baldwin said. ``Lenders are running scared about this.''  

2. Key caves - Last year John Key described as far-fetched the idea that the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPPA) would open the way for US companies to sue New Zealand if they weren't happy with the 'free' trade deal with America.

This week, US trade negotiator Barbara Wiesel said that was no longer New Zealand's position, according to TPPA critic Professor Jane Kelsey.

In response to questions about New Zealand and Australian positions during a briefing to civil society in Washington on 31st January Ms Wiesel said "New Zealand had retracted the Prime Minister's statement. It is not their position."

Under standard US terms for such agreements, investors can claim millions in compensation from governments on the grounds that new regulation has adversely affect their investment.

Under a TPPA that would apply to investors from all participating countries, including our largest sources of investment, the US and Australia, Jane Kelsey said. "In other words, the Key government is happy for pharmaceutical firms in the US, Australian banks or Singapore-based Brierley Investments to sue the New Zealand government for millions in compensation if they think new laws or policies are unfair or unreasonable or erode their profitability", said Professor Kelsey.

Now, according to TPP critic and Auckland University Law Professor Jane Kelsey, the Americans believe Key has backtracked quietly on his view.

3. Key however reiterated at his Monday post-cabinet news conference he doesn't expect to be sued. Watch this space.

"We don't believe the way the provisions would be structured would allow frivolous claims and in our view, the way we pass regulations and laws in this country, it's extremely unlikely, far-fetched, that we would be sued," he said.

"It's not new for New Zealand to include these provisions in trade deals. We did that with China."  

4. Brazil's doubts about free trade with China - One of the great stories about the last decade is the growth of Brazil on the back of China as it exported iron ore and soya beans to the Middle Kingdom.

But now Reuters reports Brazil's new President is having her doubts as Chinese imports flood in and Brazil's precious manufacturing jobs dry up...HT Kokila via email.

The core problem is a torrent of Chinese imports that has quintupled in size since 2005, with disastrous effects for Brazilian manufacturers and the well-paying, highly skilled jobs that Rousseff is so focused on creating. 

"Relations between the two countries are not hostile," the official said. "But we are going to take measures to protect ourselves ... and push for a more equal relationship."

In the short term, senior government sources say that will mean more targeted tariffs on manufactured goods coming from China and tighter supervision by customs officials, as well as more anti-dumping complaints against Beijing.

New restrictions on foreign mining companies are also likely, officials say, reflecting concerns that China wants to consolidate its grip on Brazil's commodities wealth while offering insufficient access to its own market.

In a break from her predecessor, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, Dilma Rousseff will push for a stronger yuan currency and more access to the Chinese market for Brazilian companies like airplane maker Embraer when she visits China in April.  

5. Is China slowing dramatically? - Many people are sceptical about China's economic growth figures and instead look for more concrete figures as proxies for growth, such as power consumption.

Here Zerohedge cites figures showing power consumption growth has slumped much faster than GDP, suggesting the GDP figures aren't real. HT Nikki via email.

Assuming the electricity stats tell the true story, and that the GDP numbers are ‘for reference only’ (remember, not my words!), China’s economy experienced a dramatic slowdown as 2010 progressed.

Total power consumption (year on year) grew by a whopping 22.7% in Q1 last year but only by 5.5% in Q4. The slowdown in Q4 was in fact so dramatic that the power output dropped 6.3% quarter on quarter! There were some restrictions in place on the use of electricity in Q3 and Q4 which did have some impact, but those restrictions were dropped in November, so it cannot be the only explanation.

This chart shows just how much stimulus was pumped into the Chinese economy in late 2008 and 2009.

6. Avoid the US at all costs - Nicholas Nassim Taleb, the author of the Black Swan book seen predicting the financial crisis, has warned investors to avoid US Treasuries and the US dollar, even more than they avoid the euro and European debt.

Bloomberg has the story.

“As skeptical as I am about Europe, I prefer it by far to the United States,” said Taleb at the conference, hosted by Troika Dialog, Russia’s oldest investment bank. The U.S. is just like Greece, only without the International Monetary Fund to enforce discipline, Taleb said

“We have a very dire situation in the United States, and every day that goes by it gets worse,” Taleb said.

“The only happy thing that can happen in the U.S. is a bond riot” where investors stop buying debt, Taleb said today. This would “force some discipline” in to the Treasuries market, he added.

“Every day that goes by, we’re spending money. We’re increasing that cumulative debt.”  

7. 'It's all about income, not regulation' - The Demographia report on housing affordability from Wendell Cox and Hugh Pavletich has caused real stir. They argue less regulation reduces land prices and helps affordability. Those in favour of heavy town planning to avoid sprawl say all that does is creat US-style sprawl.

Here a pro-planning advocate, Bill Fulton at California Planning and Development Report,  attacks the Wendell Cox view on this, saying house prices are linked just as much to incomes as they are to regulation. HT Kent via Twitter.

In 2010, the average home price in the four highly regulated metros was 38.9% higher than the average home price in the three loosely regulated metros. But – and here’s the interesting thing – the median income in the highly regulated metros was 20.6% higher than the median income in the three loosely regulated metros. Cox’s “growth management” metros have higher home prices. But they also have higher incomes.

You can’t draw a causal connection from my back-of-the-envelope analysis, but you could certainly hypothesize that about half of the additional home price (20% out of the 40%) is due to higher incomes. This would mean that somewhere between 0% and 20% would be due to stiffer regulation. There may be other factors, such as overall availability of land supply because of topography and public land ownership (a particular issue in Seattle).

I can’t say for sure, but this smells right to me. Some years ago when Rolf Pendall and I reviewed the literature on urban growth boundaries, we came to the conclusion that – to vastly oversimplify – the evidence showed that UGBs increase home price somewhere between a little and a lot. So I’ll stipulate right now: Stiff regulation adds somewhere between 0% and 20% to the price of a house.  

8. What a modern bank run looks like - We imagine bank runs involve queues of people trying to get into their bank to withdraw their cash. Or standing in line at ATMs. But as Gordon Long from Tipping Points says at Zerohedge, they look very different in modern times.

Just look at what has happened in Ireland.

Stealth bank runs are the unrecognized and perilous serpent lurking presently below the European financial surface. They prey on slower moving archaic bond vigilantes and anyone else swimming in these dangerous uncharted waters. Investors need to fully appreciate that a modern bank run looks and operates differently than what is depicted in the movies and what we most likely expect to occur! For starters, it isn't the individual depositor lining up, it's now Corporate CFOs or Treasurers at their terminal en masse! Secondly, it isn't driven by local depositors; it is now driven internationally by Corporate Finance committees! Thirdly, there are no telltale line-ups at bank doors. It is stealth, which will happen in an unexpected electronic 'flash crash' panic blur! Today, a triggering event will initiate global 'key strokes' that will move unprecedented amounts of money within hours. And here's the Council of Foreign Relations "In the midst of the financial crisis of 2008, governments helped to prevent bank runs by guaranteeing bank debts. Yet as sovereign solvency itself becomes an issue, such guarantees quickly lose their value. If Ireland provides a rule of thumb, bank runs can be expected once sovereign credit default swap yields pass 3%. The figure below shows that when Irish government CDS yields first passed 3% in early 2009, foreign deposits fled the country.

This happened again in late 2010. Now that Spanish CDS yields have broken the 3% threshold, there is reason to be concerned about the stability of Spanish bank deposits as well."  

9. Are lower fees the answer? - The real estate industry is abuzz with rumours of new entrants charging lower fees and marketing online, rather than through the expensive newspapers and glossy magazines. Here's an excellent piece from Realestate.co.nz CEO Alistair Helm at unconditional on who might enter and what they might do.

Is the industry ready, willing and able for a shakeup?

Will property buyers want it?

There's certainly plenty of made to be made (and lost).

The real estate industry in the residential sector alone accounted for total transacted sales of just under $25 billion in the last year. With an average commission of around 3.5% that adds us to close to $850 million in fees earned by the industry per annum in the depth of the property market recession. In the height of the market the figure reached over $1.4 billion.

Such revenue opportunity supports a large industry of over 11,000 sales agents working out of a total of close to 1,100 offices around the country.

These new entrants to the market that have emerged over the past couple of months share a two key things in common: 1. They focus on online marketing 2. They offer a lower fee for selling a property .

10. Totally irrelevant video - The Onion reports fans of Apple are about to chop their hands off in anticipation of the new iHand. There's a 'thumbs up' app...


Apple Fans Chopping Off Hands In Anticipation Of New iHand

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33 Comments

re 7

So I’ll stipulate right now: Stiff regulation adds somewhere between 0% and 20% to the price of a house. 

 

Oh yeah?  What do you think the downside might be? Leaky, earthquake-prone, uninsulated, shonkily-braced, cliff-perched, cardboard-lined  ??????

I think you also have to define 'stiff'.

Then you have to think about what oil prices add, when a barrel has lifted from $10 to $100 in a decade. Can't do a single thing to a house without it. Then project that forward.

What percentage of the price has/will that add?

I suggest regulation pales into insignificance, indeed I can see a point where anticipatory regulation - insulation for a clear example - would reduce the running-costs of a house (and anyone who doesn't factor in the running costs of a 50/100-year-life machine, but concentrates on the initial outlay, ain't seeing the whole picture) to a far greater extent.

 

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I think the idea is build it anywhere rather than remove the quality....but given the Libertarians hate for any regulation at all thats not one I'd bet on. Then again there are only 1000 in the entire country, so since when do we pay much attention to say Destiny Church with some thousands of voters/supporters let alone liberatians with a fraction even of that? just walk away....

"Projecting that forward".........Oil at $100 is I think about it.....I dont think it can go higher without the global economy going into recession and the price dropping as a result....so once it gets to oil costing $100 to get out and get to point of use, thats it...sure there will be oil left but we wont have the economic activity to support extracting it on the scale we do now.....the likes of Bill Gates etc will still have the odd super car running on petrol....

So what's left?  when you take that [in-]famous peak oil graph and subtract oil there isnt a lot of energy left....naff all actually....that should petrify ppl....but I guess they cant contemplate such without a decent science/engineering background..........water/power ect comes out of a unit on the wall after all....

regards

 

 

 

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# 2 & 3

Does this mean that the Overseas Oil companies could sue the Govt for the electrification of the rail network, & hence a decrease in their profits??

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I would assume it would have to be more direct....say if the Govn mandated 5% bio-deisel mixed in but overseas deisle had none so had to be mixed here at a cost....then yes....

Note JK now says "frivolous" law suits rather than any law suits......however National is "pro business" and anti AGW or anything else that threatens or impacts profits (even if its illogical and idealogicaly driven)  hence National probably has less to fear from such suits than Labour....

regards

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National is only pro-business if it suits the pollies or their mates.  Word on the street after the Fonterra Farmer meetings is that Fonterra has a much better chance of getting changes to the DIRA milk clauses done with Labour in govt than with the incumbents. I was told that as John Key has interests in Open Country Cheese he has removed himself from any discussions.  Depending on how things go, might be the first time in my life I will not vote National this election

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Re 7: Hugh, would you be able to carry out a regression analysis to determine how much effect income has on the median house price for an area independent of zoning restrictions?

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Many studies have shown that restrictive land-use regulations (planning) has an adverse impact on housing affordability, as well as makes house prices more volatile.

A recent report from the OECD compared housing markets in more than 20 leading nations and showed that those with less regulation tended to have more affordable housing whose prices were less volatile.

The Brookings Institution has published a report on land-use regulation among the 50 largest urban areas in the U.S. Researchers at Wharton’s put together a database of land-use regulations for 10,000 cities. A University of Washington economist named Theo Eicher compared these regulations with housing prices in 250 cities and compared them with housing prices, finding that more regulation makes housing less affordable and offering precise estimates of the effects of different kinds of regulation on housing prices.

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Great report links thanks Leith

There is now just so much robust and credible evidence drawing a strong link between regulation and housing affordability

I found the OECD report very interesting. In particular, I thought it was fascinating to see Sweden and FInland rating so high in terms of housing supply responsiveness, despite the fact they are more generally highly regulated places. Just shows that a responsive land / housing supply is not a libertarian's w#$ dream!

I suspect that their responsiveness is driven by their very advanced prefab market. I read recently that a very large proportion of their housing is prefab. So quick to permit and build, and more affordable. Unfortunately prefab in NZ is often associated with quality issues - in Scandanavia the quality of their prefabs is great!

We suffer here from lack of economies of scale. Thats why I think the govt could step in and help support / subsidise a major prefab construction business. Not only would it help with housing supply and affordability, it would also boost the economy, in particular the building sector. But at the same time more land would need to be freed up   

(PS love your Unconventional Economist website)

   

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"I suspect that their responsiveness is driven by their very advanced prefab market. I read recently that a very large proportion of their housing is prefab. So quick to permit and build, and more affordable. Unfortunately prefab in NZ is often associated with quality issues - in Scandanavia the quality of their prefabs is great!"

Wait a while Matt, Australia may very soon start thinking the same way.

Finland's population is about 5 million isn't it?

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IKEA now do homes!  Wonder how you furnish them?

 

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 Some radical thoughts here:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/opinion/perspective/4628388/Technology-offers-route-to-prosperity

"So what is the cause of our "prosperity deficit"?

In my view it is not because of our lack of mineral resources, nor because of how hard we work. New Zealand is one of the hardest- working societies in the OECD.

We are poorer because we choose to work in low-wage activities.

Our current GDP per capita corresponds to $120,500 of revenue per employee. To match Australia we need $174,000 per job.

By contrast, tourism in New Zealand earns $82,800 revenue per employee, a mere two-thirds of what is needed to maintain our current per capita GDP.

Tourism may provide valuable employment for underskilled New Zealanders, but it cannot provide a route to greater prosperity.

Productivity is not about how hard people work. It is about the nature of the work they do.

Samsung, which makes silicon chips and consumer electronic products, earns NZ$850,000 per job, while Apple Inc earns $1.7 million.

The backbone of our prosperity is dairy farming, with $350,000 per job, but environmental limitations prevent us from scaling up.

By contrast, Fisher & Paykel Healthcare comes in at $400,000 per employee per annum.

Export businesses like that consume little energy. They do not emit significant greenhouse gases nor dump nitrates in our lakes. The Resource Management Act is no bother to them at all. There is no limit to the numbers of such companies, except to the degree that our brains and enterprise make such businesses possible.

//-->

Therein lies a future path for New Zealand. Our top 100 technology companies export $4b per annum. We need 10 times that, a goal we are perfectly capable of achieving."

Then read what Paul Callaghan says about why we fail to achieve. 

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Wow Les – this is completely new for us – what a slow bunch of people you are. Since years I’m writing articles about this problem – with hardly any support from the NZMEA – unbelievable !

Some radical thoughts here - what is radical about your link ?? Is it because your are so traditional in your thoughts ?

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Walter : We need to harp on the subject , to repeat ourselves often , to get the message through .......

..... What is  today's top story ? ...The $ 13 / minimum wage ... The abolition of caged-hen egg production .......The takeover of the Huffington Post by AOL.......

So much of what we say needs to be done ( getting more of NZ's GDP into high-tech industries )  gets lost in the daily " noise "  of less important stories .

....... Ruddy good on yer , Les .... Keep banging out the good word .

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Les

We need 10 times that, a goal we are perfectly capable of achieving."

With respect - bollocks.

F& P designs products which use electricity. Globally, that's 70% coal -fired.

The products use oil - to machine, as component/content, and to transport. It just went from 10 to 100 $ a barrel in 10 years. Project that.

It's products are consumed by? Little suburban boxes made of ticky-tacky, each wanting to house two cars, each using more of the above sources.

You want to increase by a factor of10? Either you are expecting a 10-fold increase in house numbers (can't be done, 1/11th of what you propose took half the available supply, and that was the easiest half) or you intend to increase your share of a therefore-finite market - presumably by competition. Which drives the price down. Which drives your profit down. Which makes your figures redundant.

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pdk,

Re F & P. Are you confusing FP Appliances with FP Healthcare?

FPA uses heaps of power for dishwashers, clothes washers and driers

FPH does something much more useful and power efficient.

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Yes I did, but on reflection:

FPH does humidifiers and chambers. They're a million times more socially useful than dish-washers, but relying on them as per Les' claim, would draw the same response from me.

They're still made of, by, and transported with - oil.

Those folk who buy those products, have to have gotten their wealth from the doing of a something, and that something was based on energy - again oil. That wealth is there fore limited.

As I harp on, it's all happening under a ceiling - although I guess ranking of need for the product by consumers, would put Healthcare up the list.

:)

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Walter - we are never far apart on the what, it's the how where we disagree. Over reliance on centrally planned solutions riven with 'picked winners' probably wouldn't work, in NZ's context as well as you seem to think, well such hasn't to date. Plus there are issues to be resolved that would have far more positive impact, eg. defective monetary and unbalanced taxation policy, that work against devlopment of the broader real economy. 

Roger - yeah right, on.

pdk - methinks you couldn't have read the whole article. I think some of your points are covered.

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Les - when I read 'vibrant' , I'm already in cringe mode.

When I hear 'prosperity', I'm gone.

They're meaningless buzz-words. Placate-the-mass words. Spin.

Yes, he addresses energy - he's obviously no mug, and I suspect he knows exactly what a pickle we're in.

The ultimate difference I have with him, is that I'm with Sharon Astyk, Stuart Staniford and Chris Martenson - I don't think the fiscal system can long outlast peak everything, and I think we're wasting out time worrying about what to export. Global fiscal systems which can no longer support profit, and which have to address a permanent state of reduction, are surely an 'all bets are off' scenario,

Better to put your/my/our efforts into getting sustainable - read: able to continue indefinitely. Martenson has the feeling that he's late - and I must admit to stepping up the pace recently. Interesting that he has an engineering background - not an economics one.

Callahan is of the sciences too - but a sciences Prof would tout complex technology - he's hustling. (Not so long ago, at the Otago Uni Staff Club, I asked a touter whether he was Prof or pimp.....  :)

We're better off, in my humble opinion, going for lower-complexity, easier-to-repair, longer-lived technologies. Not to be confused with 'dumb'. I run an LED house, home-built hydro-powered, solar heated, with solar cooking, warter heating, food dehydration, currently (ha) running 2 laptops, stereo and most lights, using about 3 amps. (@12v)

It's about using the remaining fossil energy in as permanent a way as we can - not about what we can export for 'wealth'.

 

 

 

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We live in a " Walmart / the Warehouse " world , where consumers demand cheap , mass produced products .....

..... As much as I'd love to see less complexity and greater recyclability in all products , that appears unlikely to occur , unless by governmental decree ..... And as we saw with Idiot Bush's push for the US to produce car fuel from corn , where bureaucrats are involved  ,  the " mental " part of govern-mental seems to dominate .

More money into research along the lines of sustainability in energy and manufacturing production  , may reap windfalls for NZ . Innovation and engineering have a proud history in our wee country . We can be vibrant and prosperous once again , this time on a sustainable and clean platform ( less cow shit is better , I reckon ) .

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pdk, Roger - thoughts:

Gwynne Dyer: Being a follower of fashion may fuel revolution

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10704958 

"A rival process would combine hydrogen with carbon dioxide drawn directly from the air (by "artificial trees," a technology that is developing fast), to create an octane-type fuel for cars.

Like its algae-based rival, this fuel would be carbon-neutral, and could be delivered through existing distribution systems and used in existing vehicle engines.

Either solution would be a real challenger to $100-a-barrel oil."

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"It's not new for New Zealand to include these provisions in trade deals. We did that with China."  So John boy is at it again.  When something does not work isn't it a sign of insanity to do the same thing over and over again.

 

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 We did that with China 
So if the 'new' Chinese deals for the Crafar farms doesn't go through we will see NZ being sued?

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Don't know but have a look at this web site http://nzn4stin.blogspot.com/ for more information than I have.

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Did somebody suggest the retired ought to be able to capitalise their pension payments twenty years ahead so they can buy vineyards?

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8) Re bank runs: Keystrokes work both ways :-) 

imagine as a corporate CFO trying to move money from their "online" account.......to be met by an error "404" message. "sorry unable to transfer funds at this time".

i'm sure all banks have got kill switches installed.....if not they should have a simple button which halts all transfers.....then it's back to the old fashioned approach of going down in person to the branch......what branch i hear you say?

 

 

 

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RE #4.. Brazil.  Well I am glad to see that leaders of at least one country have some brains. Shame the imbeciles we have in NZ (and have had) for politicians never figured out that stripping the country of manufacturing jobs (by importing cheap Chinese goods) wasn't such a good idea afterall.   Apparently our politicians think that we should all be hairdressers, web designers, retail executives and car salesmen earning $13/hr. Brilliant !!

Having been to Brazil on many occasions, its not hard to see why their economy was doing so well. Virtually everything they consume is produced there, and that creates plenty of work and opportunity.  They have a fantastic music, film and TV industry too BTW. Not much in the way of crappy Hollywood movies or American music to be found (still).

But it has been changing.  On my visit there last year I was a little saddened to see more and more encroachment by American corporations, and the surge of Chinese goods in the shops. I hope that they and the rest of South America are able to hold back the rising tide.

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A recent study found that more than 80% of Brazil's manufactured exports are being adversely affected by competition from China.

 

That is a real danger to the Brazilian economy because mining and commodities are not very labour intensive. The bulk of the Brazilian workforce is employed in manufacturing industries.

The problem is that, natural resources aside, Brazil has a similar competitive advantage to China - cheap unskilled labour.

As a result, the two countries tend to compete in similar sectors and, just as in most other economies around the world, China tends to win.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/934829…

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Brazil cf. China, go here to see why:

http://www.realeconomy.co.nz/133-nzd_25_overvalued_against_usd.aspx

As for us:

http://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/opinion-bill-english-attempts-rationalise-irrational-currency-markets 

"He [Bill English] also cannot pee-off foreign investors [who were they just lately?] into our Government bonds (who are funding his fiscal deficit) by doing something that causes the NZD currency value to slide dramatically - that is, the investors lose money in NZ."

NZ cf. China, go .....

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prudent  lending 

I confess to surprise that a bank would have lent in the case of the 58 year old... appalling.

Great spin to cover themselves though!

 

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#9

I have been counselling someone close to me on this very point.

The current RE sales model will break, with all those 1100 offices paying big leases that they will struggle to meet going forward.

 While people wear the $20K fees in an ascending market, they are going to be pretty damn resistent to pay those sort of fees when taking a hit of tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in capital as the market grinds down.

It will be interesting to see how many are left this time next year.

If you halve the volume, an then halve the price then what does that do to profits?

Oh wait I forgot, it is all going to come right next month.

 

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surely the baby-boomers will leave behind a physical surfeit of housing?

Why waste finite resources building more?  Why not retain the embedded energy of the existing, and just retrofit?

 

 

 

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"Standard & Poor’s won’t cut its AAA rating on U.S. government debt “in the short-to medium-term,” Scott Bugie, managing director for financial institutions at the ratings agency, said in Moscow today."

This is yet again why S&P have no credibility

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But they are still alive. I suspect downgrading uncle Sam could alter that.

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