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Tuesday's Top 10 with NZ Mint: Why the NZ$ needs a Brazilian; Italy 2% away from disaster; Euro extend and pretend; Rare American Double Eagles; Dilbert

Tuesday's Top 10 with NZ Mint: Why the NZ$ needs a Brazilian; Italy 2% away from disaster; Euro extend and pretend; Rare American Double Eagles; Dilbert

Here's my Top 10 links from around the Internet at 1pm in association with NZ Mint.

I'll pop the extras into the comment stream. See all previous Top 10s here.

I welcome your additions in the comments below or via email to bernard.hickey@interest.co.nz.

Wolly is being very rational today...

1. Brazilian capital controls - Bloomberg reports Brazil's real fell after the central bank there introduced new capital controls to try to push the currency down.

Brazil realises it is being killed by the Dutch Disease.

Its manufacturing sector is being wiped out as US and Chinese money printers devalue their currencies.

It has described what the Americans and Chinese are doing as acts of currency war.

Yet we in New Zealand (or at least the RBNZ, the Treasury and John Key) seem remarkably relaxed about a record high currency.

There are many more consumers who vote than exporters, it seems

But what about the future for our kids? How will be earn enough to service our foreign debts and generate high paid and interesting jobs.

Here's what the Brazilians have done.

Brazilian policy makers said they will require banks to make non-interest bearing deposits with the central bank equivalent to 60 percent of short dollar positions that exceed $1 billion or their capital base, whichever is smaller.

The rule, which banks will have five working days to implement, amends a regulation introduced in January that required banks to pay deposits on short positions above $3 billion. A short position is a bet that the price will fall.

Banks in Brazil may have to unwind as much as $5 billion of short U.S. dollar positions by selling forward contracts on the dollar to comply with the new requirements, according to Kenneth Lam, a Latin America strategist with Citigroup Inc. in New York.

2. 2% away from disaster - Bloomberg reports Gary Jenkins from Evolution Securities saying Italy's bond yields only need to rise another 200 basis points or 2% for Italy to need a bailout.

“It is worth remembering how quickly bond yields can get out of control by looking at what happened to Greek, Irish and Portuguese 10-year yields,” said Jenkins, who predicted Greece’s bailout last year and who was formerly head of fundamental credit strategy at Deutsche Bank AG and global credit-research chief at Barclays Capital.

“What would keep me awake at night if I was a European finance minister is that we are only about 2 percent away from a potential disaster scenario.”

3. American deflation - Chris Whalen writes at Reuters about how a US default may not be the end of the world and why we should brace for deflation in America.

If it takes a financial crisis to change the fiscal behavior of the US, then so be it. You need courage to say no to more debt, but it is easy to borrow. The people of the US have the right and even the obligation to withhold approval of issuing further debt issuance unless real changes are made in federal spending.

The Democratic party headed by Obama is making common cause with the large banks and corporations in the US to raise the debt ceiling without making significant cuts in federal spending. Big companies hate spending cuts, but don’t really worry about things like inflation. This quarter’s earnings is all that matters.

As the two institutional political parties wrestle over national spending, and paying attention only to each other, the US economy is entering a new and potentially dangerous period of deflation. The continued process of de-leveraging in the financial sector is causing banks to shrink and credit availability to dry up. And the government is about to make things a lot worse by allowing the conforming limit for loans sold by banks to federal housing agencies like Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae to fall dramatically.

The impending decrease in the conforming loan limit will accelerate the drop in home prices this year, adding fuel to the fires of deflation. Even as President Obama and the Democrats draw a line in the sand against spending cuts, the inattention of the White House to accelerating deflation in the housing market is creating a new crisis.

4. The contagion risk - RBS Chief European Economist Jacques Cailloux talks at Bloomberg about the contagion spreading to Italy.

He says Italian bank tress test results will come out on Friday....

He talks about a massive loss of confidence in the bond markets and a buyer of last resort...

He talks about a vicious feedback loop between the bond markets and banks... The talks about how to solve it will drag on to September at least, he says...

 

5. 15 years to fix - Reuters reports Germany's President Christian Wulff saying Greece's debt problems could take 15 years to fix.

Wulff, a former leader in Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservative Christian Democrats and now Germany's ceremonial head of state, told ZDF television that there was a need for "an overall concept" for resolving Europe's debt crisis.

"It can't be something that will suffice for a three month period but rather has to offer solutions to the problem that to cover the next 10 to 15 years," Wulff said.

"And Greece will need a lot more time period than one in Europe is currently willing to acknowledge," said Wulff

6. Chinese scandals - Moody's has warned investors about the poor governmance and accounting risks at 49 Chinese-based companies.

"Weak corporate governance may lead to decision-making processes that favor the interest of some or all shareholders at the expense of bondholders and other creditors," Moody's said.

Predominant family control makes it difficult to get a clear view of a company's corporate governance practices, the rating agency said.

Moody's said it screened 49 junk-rated companies and a few investment-grade firms in China against 20 red flags, grouped into five categories: weak corporate governance, risky business models, fast-growth strategies, poor earnings quality and audit concerns.

7. American drought - NYTimes reports America is facing a drought that could be as bad as the one seen during the Depression that created dustbowls across the United States.

This could further boost beef prices.

Climatologists say the great drought of 2011 is starting to look a lot like the one that hit the nation in the early to mid-1950s. That, too, dried a broad swath of the southern tier of states into leather and remains a record breaker.

But this time things are different in the drought belt. With states and towns strapped for cash and unemployment still high, the stress on the land and the people who rely on it for a living is being amplified by political and economic forces, state and local officials say.

As a result, this drought is likely to have the cultural impact of the great 1930s drought, which hammered an already weakened nation.

“In the ’30s you had the Depression and everything that happened with that, and drought on top,” said Donald A. Wilhite, director of the school of natural resources at the University of Nebraska in Lincoln and former director of the National Drought Mitigation Center. “The combination of those two things was devastating.”

8. Extend and pretend - Zerohedge points out that Europe may increase its bailout fund from 440 billion euros to 1.5 trillion euros, SocGen reckons.

German daily Die Welt reported on Monday an unnamed ECB official suggesting that the EFSF should be increased from its current €440bn to €1.5 trillion.

Should the crisis really spread as far as Italy and Belgium, then this figure is not that far wide of the mark. We estimate Spain’s total financing need over the next three years to be around €380bn; Italy’s financing need is considerably larger at €630bn while Belgium’s financing need over the next three years would be around €150bn.

Including the €44bn already committed to Ireland and Portugal, and potentially a further €85bn for Greece, the EFSF would need to be roughly doubled to just over €850bn (assuming the IMF would be prepared to provide one third of the official financing). Without the IMF, whose participation cannot be guaranteed, the EFSF would have to be expanded to €1.3 trillion.

In order to maximise the lending capacity of the EFSF, this would mean the AAA-rated countries would have to guarantee 172% of the lending which would potentially imply a contingent liability of between 25-45% of GDP – depending on whether the IMF were involved or not. Such numbers are huge and must raise serious questions as to whether practically the EFSF could be adequately dimensioned to cover the financing needs of Italy, Spain and Belgium.

SocGen also points out the austerity programme is failing all over Europe, with Greece already falling short of its targets.

The failure of the strategy of pursuing ever greater austerity is plain for all to see with the latest Greek fiscal numbers suggesting that the public deficit had widened to €12.8bn in the first six months of the year compared to a program target of €10.3bn. Public sector spending was up 8.8% y/y, principally due to higher interest payments and payment of arrears to hospitals.

Net revenues dropped 8.3% which the finance ministry attributed to the deeper than expected recession.

9. Please send me a Double Eagle - In the depths of the Great Depression US President Roosevelt made it illegal for US citizens to own gold, which made the ownership of a Double Eagle gold coin in private hands very rare. Now Bloomberg has a piece on how valuable these coins have become.  

The 10 rare Double Eagle gold coins at the heart of a federal trial in Philadelphia are remnants of the last U.S. government default, almost eight decades before the current stalemate in Congress over raising the debt limit.

“The government is broke and, eventually, they will dig into everyone’s pockets,” said Tobina Kahn, the vice president of House of Kahn Estate Jewelers in Chicago. “Anyone who puts money into gold coins has no confidence in the government or fiat currencies.”

A single 1933 Double Eagle believed to have once belonged to King Farouk of Egypt sold at auction in 2002 for $7.59 million, according to the court filings. The government minted fewer than 500,000 of the $20 coins in 1933, and all were ordered to be melted, according to the U.S. Mint.

10. Totally a video about rescuing a cat with a leaf blower.

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60 Comments

Former US banking regulator Sheila Bair writes with authority in this Washington Post Op-Ed that America's financial system appears to have learnt nothing from the crisis and is at risk of another crisis.

She laments short termism throughout society. She is right on the money in so many ways. A must read.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/our-focus-on-the-short-term-is-holding-the-economy-back/2011/07/06/gIQAw3cI4H_print.html

Already we have heard rationalization of the subprime mortgage debacle and denigration of those of us who have advocated long-term, structural changes in the way we regulate the financial industry. Too many industry leaders, as well as some government officials, compare the crisis to a 100-year flood. “Who, us?” they say. “We didn’t do anything wrong. Nobody saw this coming.”

The truth is, some of us did see this coming. We tried to stop the excessive risk-taking that was fueling the housing bubble and turning our financial markets into gambling parlors. But we were impeded by the culture of short-termism that dominates our society. Our financial markets remain too focused on quick profits, and our political process is driven by a two-year election cycle and its relentless demands for fundraising.

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Does anyone get the feeling that the real powers that be are slinking toward the door leaving just a few servants as a covering force?  

Rats leaving the ship. Some stay behind to keep the fiddle playing..........or is that just a recording?

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FYI Euro dropped below US$1.40 this afternoon as it became clear Europe is about to abandon Greece to a default

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/jul/12/greece-set-to-default-massive-debt-burden?CMP=twt_gu

 

European leaders bowed to the inevitable and conceded that Greece is likely to default on its massive debt burden, which would be a first among the 17 countries using the euro.

They also abruptly shifted tack in the eurozone debt crisis by raising the possibility of using the eurozone's bailout fund to buy back Greek debt on the markets, meaning sizeable losses for Greece's private investors and reduced debt levels for Athens.

Following 12 hours of fraught negotiations in Brussels haunted by the risks of contagion in the eurozone spreading to Italy, now being targeted by the financial markets for the first time in the 18-month crisis, the 17 governments of the eurozone pointedly failed to rule out a sovereign debt default by Greece.

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Harrrrrrrrrrrhahahahahaaaahahaaa...splurk.

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Is the English translation of that , systematically destroyed by design ?

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The brazillians have seem to be able to see that the emperor has no clothes, lets not sit on our hands while our currency appreciates, lets get creative, lets create some funds, and purchase some overseas assets and pay off some debt, if our currency is too high we need to meet the demand for NZ dollars, i.e. print some more, but instead of spending the proceeds in NZ and creating inflation, invest the funds overseas in income earning assets, and if our currency won't drop, then print some more money and buy some more income earning assets.

We need to play the game by our own rules, catch the traders out and profit big time.

Everyones printing money to buy the groceries and our currency is appreciating, lets print some money and buy the grocery store.

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John please, you can't talk like that here you will scare people. I hope you get an actual reply because the same question goes unanswered here before.
Don't rock the boat , just play the game as you're told.
Oh & never ask why or how Brazil managed to get the FIFA world cup & olympics two years apart.

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Our politicians could be a little braver and contemplate  something other than the bible as written by Rodger Douglas , Ruth Richardson and the like. The Brazillian  economy has been booming maybe because their government is prepared to advance policies that are good for the country and not just certain interest groups.

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Our politicians could be a little braver and contemplate  something other than the bible as written by Rodger Douglas , Ruth Richardson and the like. The Brazillian  economy has been booming maybe because their government is prepared to advance policies that are good for the country and not just certain interest groups.

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Greece a Dress Rehearsal for United States

By Michael Hudson

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&…  
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I don't think greece is big enough Andrew. Perhaps Spain , or the aggregate of the experiment currently in play. either way there is a very obvious build up to a large failure with the short odds being the USA. People need to learn about what is happenin inside America now full spectrum , then perhaps a picture could form.
Nice to see someone finally post on the topic.

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Goofy got it wrong. The Federated Farmers are ACT in gumboots:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10738021

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i'm not too sure whether Italy is quite 2% away from disaster when you consider the unemotive facts :

There are three big advantages Italy has over the rest of peripheral Europe:

 

(1) Italy has net foreign debt of only 21% of GDP (compared to 80% to 110% of GDP elsewhere in periphery). What does this mean? It means that even if Italy left the Euro it would not need to default. As net foreign debt would rise but still rise to levels that are relatively low.

 

(2) Italy has a low loan-to-deposit ratio of 120% (ex retail bonds) and in particular only 41bn of funding from the ECB (which amounts to 2.5% of GDP compared to 45% of GDP in Greece). Again this means that if Italy left the Euro, there does not need to be as big a contraction in assets of banks as elsewhere in the periphery.

 

(3) Most importantly, on IMF data, Italy is running a primary budget surplus of 0.2% of GDP and the IMF claim on a cyclically-adjusted basis this would be 1.7% of GDP. Elsewhere in periphery there are big primary budget deficits.

The other positives:

(a) Italy had no housing or credit bubble (CAGR of private sector credit growth in the last decade is nearly half that of Spain). Total leverage (private and government) is third lowest in Europe.

(b) Italy’s current account deficit is relatively small at 2.7% of GDP.

(c) Average maturity of debt is one of the longest in Europe (7 years) and 50% of government debt is held domestically (one of the higher numbers in Europe).

I'm glad i'm holding plenty of gold stocks though, as the bigger picture is that the band-aid is about to come off the global money sore; and it's full of bacteria of an unknown kind 1

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(d) It has 2451.8 tonnes of gold reserves worth around USD140b.

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FYI looks like Rod Petricevic will have to represent himself...

Justice Geoffrey Venning has not granted former Bridgecorp boss Rod Petricevic a stay of proceedings meaning the bankrupt businessman may have to defend himself in court against charges related to the finance company's collapse.

http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/bridgecorp-trial-petricevic-4299787?ref=rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

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Should remand him in custody, that might speed up the process if him finding some funding from his hidden assets.

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How the Bubble Destroyed the Middle Class by Rex Nutting  

http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/113086/bubble-destro…

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A couple of things.

1: if it's on mainstream media then there is a big problem
2: once the middle class is gone, what's the next phase?

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Thats what im trying to figure out, why im on this website listening to people who may know more than me. Why I search the net for information, why I post on here, so as many  as possible share the same information and the same starting point, its where we we end up that I need to work on. So far Im looking at a healthy dose of deflation, why would the banks want their assets destroyed by inflation?  

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Andrew as you are keen to understand more , see what you can take from the links below. Some of the content you will recognize as familiar topics as you have read on zero hedge

Bob Chapman www.theinternationalforecaster.com
Max Keiser - economist
MaxKeiser.com

Gerald Celente - trends research
www.trendsresearch.com
www.nomiprinds.com

History

Webster Griffen Tarpley www.Tarpley.net

Lyndon LaRouche - www.larouchepac.com

Steve Pieczenik
http://www.stevepieczenik.com

Environmental

Agenda 21 protocols - critical google this & read

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Total kooksville....

"In fact, CO2 has such a prominent role in Agenda 21 protocols that if that one fact alone proves to be false, the entire agenda crumbles from within. I believe it has overwhelmingly been proven false in many ways,"

loony stuff IMHO.

regards

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Its out there to be sure. Really just a stepping stone to take what you like out of it , usually furher pieces to research like anything which is read.
I find that it helps to read as broad a spectrum as possible , I don't attach labels to it. To form views or opinions one must read full range or information. That's my opinion

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It must be reliable and credible information otherwise you are reading stuff from nut jobs.....

regards

 

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Lloyd, 

this journalist leaves no stone unturned

http://nofrakkingconsensus.com/

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Martyh

Physicists (Ken Deffeyes et al) were predicting there would be trouble post 2005:

http://www.drmillslmu.com/peakoil.htm

As you say, there's nothing like widening your span of knowledge.....

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And did u read this one from today?

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/ratio-insider-selling-buying-3700-1 

Check out TD's response not far down in the blog - with a further very telling chart.

 

 

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The fall of Rome?

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/11/fall-of-rome/

What's interesting is how fast Italy's interest rate is changing, all the while PK thinks the US has no problem....and of course Italy plans to balanace its budget by 2014? like why havethey done so little over the last 2 years?

regards

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Seems like Greece is history...........now moving on to Italy:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/11/eurozone-crisis-eur…

"Although there is currently little basis for the concern that Italy's interest rates could rise high enough to put its solvency in jeopardy, financial markets are acting irrationally and elevating both the fear and the prospects of a self-fulfilling prophesy."

And finally the Euro:

"There is no reason that the European project cannot proceed, and the EU prosper, without the euro."

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Economically it is a basket case....it has nothing to export....politically, as we are seeing worse and worse anarchy....young exiting just like Ireland.

regards

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Im not sure what happens in the next few weeks / months but I cant see it being quiet....If you look at how fast Greece's interest rate rose and then Portugal's and then look at Italy I can but see this EU thing failing....and then it sweeps around the world....

Personally what I suspect is happening is the "investors" who were in this debt for the return have bailed and are now betting it will fail via CDS's....hence why the bond rate is climbing so fast (no private buyer is buying)...It would be interesting to see how the CDS rate is changing I would expect that it would cost a lot to hedge against  failure/default? or at least see it rising as fast as the Govn bond rate...

So after the banks are stuffed, then there is the company debt/bonds and pension funds who hold it (and Govn debt)....all looking to be worthless....ppl retire? I really wonder how....

This is mind bogglingly complex....

regards

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Here is a list of the ten-year credit default swap (CDS) premiums.

http://verlorenegeneration.de/landerisiken-im-uberblick/

The table is as at 8 July.

Paste the link in Google Translate to convert to English

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not to mention Portugal

regards

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Just reading the comments in the Telegraph, looks like Itay is in trouble

 

 



mirthios 16 minutes ago   By 8:30 BST this morning, just an hour into the dealing day, the yield on 10-year Italian bonds had risen from 5.684% overnight to 5.945%.   Frightening.  


poldark 45 minutes ago Recommended by 
6 people   German and French stockmarkets are being hammer this morning (down 2.33% and 2.71%) compared to the ftse down 1.4%.
Glad I bought gold and silver.  
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Look at that graph...

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/11/fall-of-rome/

Every time so far its take off has been so fast its to late to do anything about it when it happens...

regards

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http://www.un.org/esa/dsd/agenda21/

For steven. This the UN site. Again take from it what you like.

Andrew , have you pot physical possesion of your metal ? Stored somewhere you can't be kept from ?

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Quite simple the info is exctaly how you take it....if you accept AGW etc is real and a huge problem this "agenda" is how to fix it.

regards

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Ive got a couple of hundred acres debt free and with  a decent garden, just planted a hundred trees today, and more to go in next week. Then in the spring I will plant 30 fruit and nut trees, im self sufficient as far as I feel i need to go and adaptable.  Got a small vineyard and plenty of fuel stored.

 Read this article last week on Argentina bit frightening,

http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2008/10/thoughts-on-urban-survival-2005.html

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Andrewj, you may have already commented, i may have missed it but on returning from your epic fact finding mission of a few global agri hot spots what have you concluded..is there somewhere you visited that impressed you enough that you now want to invest there?..or on reflection can the HB (therefore NZ)still match it with what you saw...(planting 100 trees in one day  is a rather firm statement of intent)...if you've already commented can you link to it plz....if you wish your views to remain private thats understood...thanks

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Hi NeilD, ive only been to the States, saw some nice property but the Chinese are busy buying, some of the farms look OK buying. My friends in Chile got held up at knife point but are ok, I hope to get there soon as I can to look around.

 I think that there are a lot of people wanting to get rid of cash or diversify away from shares, i meet them all the time and we all have the same problem, returns are too low or prices are too high, and the risk is too high. I got on well with a bank manager in the USA and we came to the same conclusion- that commodity prices won't stay high for much longer. There are a lot of businesses hanging on by their finger nails in the States but a lot of Farmers were doing Ok and comfortable, land prices are low enough to give a return but CGTax stops a lot of the land exuberence.  Currency risk is on my mind, who's going to get to the bottom first?

 My other problem is my children are growing up and we want to live closer, also my inlaws are getting on, so we have a few family pulls to the Nth Hemisphere. Europe is going to get interesting especially with agriculture if the EU collapses what happens to the farm policies?

 Some big apple orchards gettimng ripped out around here and the grape industry is in deep trouble, Im keeping my eyes wide open, 

Regards Andrew

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Always plant in the winter Andrew, that way when spring comes, your trees will be in the box seat to take advantage of that spring flush a lot better. 

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Not all trees, some are a bit sensitive to our frosts so I plant them after the last frost, they sit in bags until Im ready. This list includes some gums.

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There are some good frost-hardy gums around - nitens, regnan, delicatensis. I think the trick is to find out where they come from (Tassie ones do well down here) but once the canopy gets together, they seen to hold it off the ground. Our nitens have taken a -6 in the early years.

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Hey PDK, under Gareth's big Kahuna as interpreted by cunny, you will have to pay CGT on your Nitens every year as determined by local council appointed plantation valuers..how you like them apples?

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drjonathanwilson 13 minutes ago Recommended by 
2 people   Just how strong is Germany’s commitment to the EU? 

Are Barroso and van Rompuy  beginning to feel isolated from Germany’s leadership?
Do they get the sense that they no longer belong to the “inner circle”? Or is Mrs. Merkel on the phone seeking their support and guidance as the EMU crisis reaches its apogee with reality? 

Whilst I think that there is an outside chance that the Germans will say (as they did in both world wars) there is no turning back now and
a transfer union is the only way forward, I do think that the higher probability is that the Germans are preparing to abandon the Euro as we know it. 

I even doubt that there is enough time left to make this an orderly withdrawal – it will probably be a chaotic but relatively short affair. 

The next question in my mind is whither France? 

The French economy relies heavily on below the line fiscal transfers from Germany The carefully constructed EU subsidy regime to France’s benefit could be collateral damage as national governments rush to ring fence their taxpayers for their own financial systems.

France needs to urgently engage in economic reform.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/globalbusiness/8631219/German-Nein-l…

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"........urgently engage in economic reform"

Fat chance....

No one has yet, Italy had a good chance but ignored it for at least two years...it will be the same every time as the next domino wobbles....the only ones who have seemingly come out not to bad is Iceland....

regards

 

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 Currently the media in Europe are full of comments about Italy – rather hectic.

Here more comprehensive information on Italy:

http://italyeconomicinfo.blogspot.com/

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 Roubini today:

http://blog.tagesanzeiger.ch/nevermindthemarkets/index.php/4119/weltwirtschaftskrise-2013/

 But then - does he not forget a number of components, which are speeding up the worldwide crises process ? Like so many economists he’s not incorporating climate change, natural events, and political issues.

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 "Mayor Celia Wade-Brown and two of her aides have been on a media training course in Auckland, at a cost to Wellington ratepayers of $4000" stuff

Oh how wonderful...wgtn ratepayers forking out for a better quality of BS ....will they get their moneys worth!

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Words almost fail me!

 "... debt cancellation is acceptable because the Fed just printed up the money out of thin air to buy the bonds in the first place. In other words, it's not as if the Treasury would be reneging on its debts held by hardworking, frugal investors"

 http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article29193.html

This is how far the financial fraud in the usa has gone...that they would consider such trickery....I wonder if Alan has plans that are similar!

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Is there any other monetarty system for quick expansion of goods and services?

Silliest question I've ever seen.

Goods and services are the result of energy expended -slash - work done.

If you want a quick expansion of energy expended, you look for a quick expansion of energy available.

What has 'monetary' got to do with that? Paid or unpaid, you either obtain it or you don't.

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You thought this was a deckchair forum, and not a sinking one.

That denial - that clinging to the lie that money somehow drives everything, will solve every problem - is shared by others, and your suggestion has been made before.

However, from my point of view, I saw that the deckchairs were in trouble via my interest in the displacement of vessels. It seemed only sensible to point out that trying to build yet more deckchairs wouldn't solve the underlying problem, and it seemed the best place to do the warning was on a deckchair-appraising site.

The Naval Architects, you must understand, have already worked it out, and dont need warned.

thanks

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marty,

     google econophysics.  It seems that physis and economics intersect.

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Sorry, there you are absolutely wrong.

I repeat, absolutely.

Even Berlusconi's girls need a calorific intake (don't misunderstand me now) to provide their service (we'll leave out whether it's a 'good').

Nothing - no economic activity whatever, happens without energy, but all activities could happen by agreement, sans money.

Easy. But you're still in an inverse mindset. You're not measuring the 'price point' - that's money. Don't get me wrong - your system worked fine on the up (left-hand) side of the gaussian.

http://powerdownkiwi.wordpress.com/2011/03/04/bernards-weekend-homework-task/

 Could I sugget that for your 'is's you insert 'was's.

thanks

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No, you're not going along with anything - yet.

You are still stuck back on 'buy'.

You simply decide you want a scanner, and choose to allocate some of you energy to it. It's a budget thing, most definitely, but it's an energy budget, not $$$$. It's also - unless we get something in bulk soon - a scarcity issue. Physical scarcity, not $$$$$$$$$$. Economics says that at a certain price, substitution happens. Physics says that at some point, there's nothing left.  It's the defining difference, and only one is correct. I'll give you the tip - unless we have an endless (and exponentially increasing) supply of planets, it's not growth-based economics.

It happens in nature all the time - if you chase prey, but use more calories in the chase than the prey returns, you die. You have to budget your energy expenditure. We, for instance, short-circuit the energy needed for digestion by cooking, which in turn uses energy. The energy in the fuel, leaves us more in our own budget.

I work (when I'm not here!) pretty much all the time. Much of it is voluntary, much of the rest is altruistic. Some of it is building things. I could build your scanner, if that were my expertise, and be happy to do it for free. I happen to build other things. Sure, we use money to tabulate the difference between the amounts of work involved in something (presuming we take parasitism/profiteering out of the equation) but we could equally do that by calorific count.

cheers

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"I prefer to use the latest deckchairs, not the old ones".

So do I, but there's a bit of a bigger issue happening, and what you prefer may not be what you get. It happens when there are 7 billion sheep in the same paddock, and they're all eating faster that they did.

Actually, I don't mind you keeping your money as a go-between - but it has to be non-fiat, non-usury and non-profit.

In otherwords - and not unreasonably I would have thought - it has to be at all times redeemable.

But hang on - if we can make something without it being bought, but we can't buy something which hasn't been made - why tabulate it using the subordinate?

Just a thought

cheers

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No, you are wrong it is everything.....go back to fundimentals....To get oil out of the ground we have to build equipment, to get the raw materials to build equipment takes energy. 

To find energy takes equipment, energy and time....

To get it out of the ground takes equipment, energy and time....

To get it to the refinery takes equipment enrgy and time.

To build the refinery takes what?

To refine it takes what?

To get it to point of sale takes what?

To get us to the point of sale takes what?

To use it takes what?

Where in all that is money essential?

So money cannot be a primary, its secondary, all of the above can be done without money, money just gives us a medium of exchange.

regards

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You cant have finances without obeying physical laws, if you can, patent it is my advice.

It is very simple....every aspect of our lives comes back to energy and the cost (and I dont mean money) it getting sufficient and getting it cheaply enough to EXPAND....if we dont get enough of it and if it isnt cheap, we cannot EXPAND.

Go back to 1900, lets say to do anything takes one unit of energy.

So lets set the scene, it takes one unit of energy to feed our present population, it takes 1 unit of energy to have the complex society we have and it takes 1 unit of energy to get minerals. Say we have 4 units of energy we can produce, 3 are used 1 is spare, which is about the historic norm for 10s of thousands of years....ie net about 20~25%...

So we discover oil, it looks great so we expend one unit of energy to get and refine oil, and in 1900 the return was 100:1....It takes one unit....we go from 4 units of energy to 104 Gross and 4 used, so 100 net...

What do we do with all that energy?

Well grow the population, as now we can grow more food, so we'll spend 5 units on that....we can grow the complexity of our civialisation, spend 5 units on that, 5 on minerals, rinse and repeat, it all grows very fast.

10 years later we now find that it takes 5 units of energy to feed our grown population, 5 units for complexity and as minerals are now getting harder to extract, 5 units..., but hey we spned 1 and get 100, so we still are massively in positive. So we can continue to grow everything....

Another ten years passes, we see that out population has grown to the point it takes 10 units of energy to feed them and 10 for complexity and 10 for minerals, the bad news is for 1 energy invested we now only get back 50.....but we are still 19 net, so we can still grow but more slowly.

Can you see where this is heading yet?

regards

 

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Inflation? The danger of wathcing CPI...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8631753/UK-inflation-dips-…

It changes monthly, you cant set a policy on something so volitile.

 

regards

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Inflation? The danger of wathcing CPI...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8631753/UK-inflation-dips-…

It changes monthly, you cant set a policy on something so volitile.

 

regards

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