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Wednesday's Top 10 with NZ Mint: Can a debt crisis be solved with more debt?; Bonds better than stocks for last 30 years; Germans printing marks?; Dilbert

Wednesday's Top 10 with NZ Mint: Can a debt crisis be solved with more debt?; Bonds better than stocks for last 30 years; Germans printing marks?; Dilbert

Here's my Top 10 links from around the Internet at 11 am in association with NZ Mint.

I welcome your additions in the comments below or via email tobernard.hickey@interest.co.nz.

I'll pop the extras into the comment stream. See all previous Top 10s here.

Number 7 is well worth a read today on what's going on inside Greece. People are getting ready to fill their car boots with cash and head for the borders

1. It's always about the politics in the end - Gideon Rachman explains in this FT blog why the Greek referendum call was so significant.

He rightly points out that voters simply don't want the European project, while politicians do.

The unraveling of the European project, which is really what we're seeing, is inevitable without political support in functioning democracies.

HT to Gareth for pointing out Greece was the birthplace of democracy and the words chaos and drama are both Greek.

Here's Rachman

The Greek referendum would be a hammer blow aimed at the most sensitive spot of the whole European construction - its lack of popular support and legitimacy. It has been clear for some time that politicians at both ends of the euro-crisis – debtors and creditors, Greeks and Germans – have huge trouble bringing their electorates with them. As the crisis worsens, so voters will become more bitter and disillusioned. Allowing them a direct say, through the ballot box, will be a certain way of ensuring that the deal unravels.

European leaders know all this. The Brussels authorities react to the prospect of a referendum like a vampire to garlic. Little wonder - the record of the EU in referendums is dreadful.

The Irish and the Danes have voted several times to reject EU treaties. Most significantly of all, the Dutch and the French voted to reject the proposed EU constitution in 2005.

2. Can a debt crisis be solved with more debt? - PIMCO supremo Bill Gross asks this question in his latest monthly comment piece.

His conclusion is it only works with economic growth, which we have precious little of at the moment and haven't had for a decade.

His chart below of G7 growth rates shows a disturbing trend.

Policymakers have been striving to answer it in the affirmative ever since Lehman 2008 with an assorted array of bazookas and popguns: 0% interest rates, sequential QEs with a twist, and of course now the EU grand plan with its various initiatives involving debt write-offs for Greece, bank recapitalizations for Euroland depositories and the leveraging of their rather unique “EFSF” which requires 17 separate votes each and every time an amendment is required.

What a way to run a railroad. Still, investors hold to the premise that once a grand plan is in place in Euroland and for as long as the U.S., U.K. and Japan can play scrabble with the 10-point “Q” letter, then the markets are their oyster. Not being one to cast pearls before swine or little Euroland PIGS for that matter, I would tentatively agree with one huge qualifier: As long as these policies generate growth.

Growth is the elixir that seems to make every ache, pain or serious ailment go away. Sovereign debt too high? Just grow your way out of it. Unemployment rates hitting historical peaks? Growth produces jobs. Stock markets depressed? Nothing a lot of growth wouldn’t cure. But growth is the commodity that the world is short of at the moment, as shown in Chart 1. No country has enough of it – not even China – and many of the developed countries (specifically in Euroland) seem to be shrinking into recession.

3. Calling all fund managers - The conventional wisdom is that long term investors need to be in stocks because stocks outperform everything over the long term.

But....

Bloomberg reports bonds have now outperformed stocks bonds over the last 30 years. This is the first time it's happened since 1861.

Is that long term enough for everybody? And can this happen again, given yields surely can't go any lower and bond prices couldn't rise much more? Or can they?

Long-term government bonds have gained 11.5 percent a year on average over the past three decades, beating the 10.8 percent increase in the S&P 500, said Jim Bianco, president of Bianco Research in Chicago. The combination of a core U.S. inflation rate that has averaged 1.5 percent this year, the Federal Reserve’s decision to keep its target interest rate for overnight loans between banks near zero through 2013, slower economic growth and the highest savings rate since the global credit crisis have made bonds the best assets to own this year.

Stocks had risen more than bonds over every 30-year period from 1861, according to Jeremy Siegel, a finance professor at the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School in Philadelphia, until the period ending in Sept 30.

4. Deutche mark printing - Philippa Malmgren, a fund manager and former economic adviser to George Bush, is saying not so quietly that she believes the Bundesbank has quietly started printing Deutsche Marks again in preparation for a German withdrawal from the Euro.

This is very speculative, but it is the ultimate conclusion of the political forces gathering inside Germany to try to cut off the Southern Europeans from the debt life support cords to Germany.

Here's Malmgren via MoneyNews: 

"My view is that it is Germany that will have to pull out of the euro," Malmgren said at an investors' conference in London recently, according to the Citywire news website.

"The decision has already been made by the government that leaving the euro is a possibility. I think they have already got the printing machines going and are bringing out the old deutsche marks they have left over from when the euro was introduced."

Malmgren, co-founder of Principalis Asset Management, acknowledged that leaving the euro would be a radical move that would cause Germany's export prices to jump, but said German industries are strong enough to handle price increases, Citywire reported. 

5. Those bloody Porsche Cayennes - I'm no fan of the Porsche Cayenne. It is a pretentious barge of a car that sucks fuel and menaces cyclists like me.

Now Ian Cowie at The Telegraph reports there are more Porsche Cayennes registered in Greece than there are people who declared incomes over 50,000 euros (NZ$86,000).

I wonder how many Porsche Cayenne drivers in New Zealand declare personal incomes of over NZ$86,000.

Here's Cowie:

While German car workers may take pride in this evidence of their export success, German taxpayers may be less keen to bail out a nation whose population appears to take such a cavalier approach to paying its fiscal dues. Never mind all that macroeconomic talk about deficit distress, many Greeks are still plainly riding high on the hog.

Something can’t be right when the modest city of Larisa, capital of the agricultural region of Thessaly with 250,000 inhabitants, has more Porsches per head of the population than New York or London.

Perhaps the penny – or the euro – is already dropping, because Professor Herakles Polemarchakis, former head of the Greek prime minister’s economic department, writes that Larissa “is the talk of the town in Stuttgart, the cradle of the German automobile industry, and, particularly, in the Porsche headquarters there”, since it “tops the list, world-wide, for the per-capita ownership of Porsche Cayennes”.

6. Australia's elephant in the room - Leith van Onselen at Macrobusiness is doing a great job of unearthing the real problem in Australia's economy: the high cost of land.

He makes some great points and has some lovely charts showing how land supply restrictions in Australia and some parts of America have pumped up land prices and made them more volatile.    

Although Australia’s level of mortgage debt-to-GDP is higher than the US average, it appears less extreme when compared against the epicentres of the US housing bubble/bust – California, Nevada, Arizona and Florida.

The key point to take away from this analysis is that the supply-side of the housing market is critical and is itself a key driver behind increasing levels of mortgage debt.

It is, therefore, paramount that authorities work to free-up the supply-side barriers that create the positive feedback loop of credit-fuelled demand feeding into higher prices and speculation. Only then can stable and affordable housing markets be achieved, and the painful deleveraging that typically follows the bursting of housing bubbles be avoided.

    

7. Greece's coin toss - Paul Mason, the economics editor at BBC's Newsnight, has a very detailed and caustic view on the Greek politics and economics of its crisis.

He says a referendum would actually be a vote on Euro zone membership.

He also suspects PM George Papandreou knows a lot more than he's saying about silent bank runs and capital flight.

Another potential reason is capital flight. Anecdotal evidence suggests that the Greek elite are buying up property in London just as fast as they can find berths in Poole for their yachts. They are voting with their spinnakers, on the basis that the game is up. In any future Greece on offer, they will have to start paying taxes and they do not want to. One banker told me the Greek super-rich have mostly left.

The one thing governments have that investment banks do not is intelligence services with the power to wiretap people. If you ever wonder why serving politicians go grey so quickly, it is in part because they see the intelligence. So Mr Papandreou may have looked at the file and said, I can't sell this to my party, nor to my voters, and the business elite are emigrating en masse, so throw the dice.

Referendums are, always, basically a coin-toss, an all-chips on the black romantic gesture. Right now, the scale of EU-level mobilisiation to dissuade Mr Papandreou is huge.

But if Greece votes no - and goes for euro-exit - there are several plans in the process of being published that explain what you have to do. Close the banks for days, ration food and energy, institute strict capital controls - with most probably a few fast patrol boats at Glyfada harbour to check every departing yacht for cash and bonds.

Later, you get massive devaluation, with inflation; your non-sovereign debts become instantly doubled so you cannot pay them (i.e., the stock of Greek private debt to external lenders, for example, or, intra-corporate debts).

Ambrose Evans Pritchard is also excellent on Greece's act of revenge for painful austerity.

8. Ever wondered why NZ is so popular with Chinese millionaires?  - A Bank of China/Hurun report called "Private Banking White Paper 2011" shows nearly half of China's millionaires want to leave the country and 14% are in the process of emigrating, CNN reports.

Half of the investors said they want to leave for better overseas education opportunities for their children. About a third invest abroad as a step toward emigration, while a quarter of them do so to diversify and manage risk.

Observers believe that personal and capital safety is an increasing concern for the rich who are choosing to transfer their wealth overseas.

“We see too many worried entrepreneurs nowadays who are afraid that they would end up in prison for offending Chinese officials,” Beijing-based scholar Hu Xingdoutold Ming Pao, a Hong Kong newspaper. He believes the lack of legal protection in many areas has lead to the worsening of business environment in China, which is accelerating the emigration drive.

One-third of the rich surveyed own foreign assets, which accounts for 19% of their investment assets. Another one-third are planning to invest abroad. The most popular investment is property.

Here's the very useful Hurun Rich List for 2011 showing who is wealthiest in China and how they made their wealth.

9. 'The coming generational war' - Heidi Przybila writes at Bloomberg that another stalemate in the US Congress on how to reduce the budget deficit would inevitably hurt those most who current have no voice in the debate: the young.

With Democrats and the 37 million-member AARP seniors’ lobby working to protect Medicare and Social Security, and Republicans opposing tax increases to curb the deficit, programs for young people may be disproportionate targets if negotiators can’t reach a budget deal and automatic spending cuts kick in.

That’s sparking concern that lawmakers are sacrificing the U.S.’s future investment in children, education, infrastructure and other programs.

“I don’t think Congress on either end understands the consequence of their inaction,” said James Jones, an Oklahoma Democrat and former House Budget Committee chairman who is a board member of the bipartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. “You’re creating generational war.”

Title 1 funding for low-income students, the Head Start health and nutrition program, Child Welfare Services, and vaccines are among items likely to be hit by the automatic cuts if a congressional panel can’t agree on a debt-reduction package of at least $1.2 trillion. That’s according to a study by the nonpartisan Federal Funds Information for States, which analyzes the impact of federal policy on state budgets and is affiliated with the National Governors Association.

One reason child health and education programs are at risk is that those advocating for young people, many from low-income or impoverished homes, lack the political clout that the elderly or defense contractors have.

10. Totally Jon Stewart on the latest ructions inside the Republican race for the Presidential nomination. There is a lot of innuendo. It made me laugh.

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82 Comments

Does anyone here have the NZ mortgage debt to GDP ratio to hand? I'd be interested to see how we compare. 

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We're at about 145%.

Here's the stats.

http://rbnz.govt.nz/keygraphs/Fig5.html

cheers

Bernard

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Cheers, looks deflationary.  Is the inflation overspill from last decade?

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Bernard...   Is that the right graph...????     Your graph shows a % of disposible income.

GDP in 2009 was about  $185 billion...  ( I don't know what GDP was in 2010.. maybe 2% more )

Housing credit is $173 Billion

Eyeballing this....  It looks to be about 90%.......

 

Cheers  Roelof

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Roelof

% of Household disposable income, which a smaller number than GDP.

That data is in a spreadsheet on that RBNZ if you want to check.

cheers

Bernard

 

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I agree with Roelof

GDP in current prices (Mar 2011) 198,043 billion

http://stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/economic_indicator/GDP/GrossDomes…

Open the excel spreadsheet and the figure is on Table 4.2 (note some of the tables use 1995/96 dollars)

RBNZ table C7 shows debt houshold - housing 168,674 billion as at Sept 2011

http://rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/monfin/c7/data.html

The ratio is 85.2% about the same as Australia.

This still leaves open the question of how much mortgage debt is financing small business.

When you look through the C7 table, its hard to see how small businesses are financed.

construction is $2.6b, wholesale $4.2b retail $4.5b. When you think about how much the big players borrow, how much of the balance is left as SME debt is borrowed against the business?

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Sorry - stats link doesn't work

Go to www.Stats.govt.nz and in the 'Stats in Demand' table in the top right corner, click on GDP jun qtr

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Research by The Slog has revealed that the Referendum Law being invoked by George Papandreou is a mere 29 days old. There is evidence that the Greek leader purposefully promoted the man behind it, and that thus his use of it was premeditated. But his exact motive remains unclear.

  http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/  
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Ad.1. It's interesting how politicians dislike democracy when its makes them unconfortable...

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FYI

There are now 45.8 million Americans, or 15.8% of the populuation, who are on food stamps, up 8.1% from a year ago.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/11/01/some-15-of-u-s-uses-food-stamps/?mod=e2tw

cheers

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And apx. same number of unemployed Americans as there are Canadians. They're rushing the border now for jobs. V sad.

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The US stopped issuing working visas for foreigners this year. They're really trying to protect their own. Unfortunately they'll probably find they're chronically short of qualified people and the quality of service they provide will take a massive dive.

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Is the punnishment for forging food stamps likely to mean a long stay in a warm prison cell with three meals a day, protection from Wall street criminals and the IRS, health and dental care for free, visits from entertainment groups to augment the diet of tv rubbish and balance the boredom of golf on the prison course every day.......!

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Feel the earthquake Wolly?

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Missed it Gareth, was out in the 4wd on the farm picking some mushrooms to go with me sausages tonight...must have rolled on through at the same time...spect another one will follow soon though...

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Mushrooms at this time of year?

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Too right mate...a bag full yesterday and today...gift of the rains....gotta be quick to beat the worms.

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You can't forge them, Wolly, they are paid by deposit on electronic cards.

 

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When I said governement borrowing to buy the groceries, it was meant figurativly, turns out it's a fact.

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Here's John Cassidy at The New Yorker on the Greek vote plan:

Faced with two unappetizing choices (staying in the euro or exiting the euro), Greece seems intent on choosing neither. Papandreou, for reasons of his own, is intent on forcing it to choose. But rather than doing that, it may well get rid of him and put together a new “national unity” government that will give the Greeks what they really want: a European bailout and the right to complain and protest about it.

 

Meanwhile, the rest of Europe is left to do what it has done many times before: bad mouth its southern neighbor.

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/johncassidy/2011/11/beware-of-greeks-bearing-referendums.html#ixzz1cUuybCpR

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Later, you get massive devaluation, with inflation; your non-sovereign debts become instantly doubled so you cannot pay them (i.e., the stock of Greek private debt to external lenders, for example, or, intra-corporate debts).

Honestly the fallout from this is going to massive.  Intracorporate debts (Intra bank debts/contagion).  The only reason you stack dominoes along a line is to push one and watch them fall over, amirite?

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FYI Greece has formally said the referendum will be on euro membership, not just on whether to support the bailout/austerity package.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/past-midnight-headlines-greece

cheers

Bernard

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Greek vote sets off 'pandemonium', engulfs Italy Greece's startling decision to call a referendum on last week's EU summit deal has set off wild tremors across the eurozone, pushing Italy to the brink of a perilous downward spiral.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8863677/Greek-vote-s…

Andrew Roberts from RBS said Italy's debt stress is "dangerously close to a level that could cause pandemonium in financial markets".

The point of no return - judging from the sequence in Greece, Ireland and Portugal - would most likely be if LCH Clearnet imposed higher margin requirements. This trigger is 450 points over a basket of AAA benchmark bonds. The spread reached 388 on Tuesday. "We're two more days of violence from this point, but we're not there yet," he said.

The Greek move - denounced by France's Elysee as "irrational and dangerous" - raises the serious possibility that a euro member could soon be forced out of the monetary union, setting a precedent with explosive ramifications for other states in trouble.

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Sif it's Greeces fault Italy has borrowed itself into a hole.  

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Re: #3

----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen L Hulme To: mcullen@ministers.govt.nz Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 2:50 PM Subject: Diversification of GSF Investment Classes  

Dear Minister

I refer to the copied press release as set out below and in particular to the highlighted section outlining The Government Actuary estimates of the projected savings to be made by diversifying the GSF investment portfolio beyond New Zealand Government Stock.

If the public is to support and fund a GSF investment reform proposal that relies on higher projected returns in the stock market both domestically and internationally, it seems incumbent on the proponents of such plans to produce a detailed description of their assumptions on stock returns. Specifically, this description would present the year by year assumptions for the two components of the stock return, dividend payouts and capital gains, in precisely the same manner that the Government Actuary presumably lays out its assumptions for the current investment in New Zealand Government Bonds.

As a citizen I request that you submit these projections so those professionally qualified like myself and others so we can scrutinise their plausibility.

Please consider this request as falling under the Official Information Act 1982. Could you please provide any documentation, either written or
verbal, that relates to the above.

Yours faithfully

Stephen L Hulme

"GSF To Diversify Investment For Better Returns
Press Release New Zealand Government 3/04/00 16:13:00

The Government Superannuation Fund will be allowed to diversify its investment portfolio to seek better returns, Finance Minister Michael Cullen announced today.

 

"The change will not affect GSF members' entitlements which will continue to be Crown guaranteed.

 

"But it will deliver significant savings to the taxpayer," Dr Cullen said.

 

The Government Actuary estimates that the policy could reduce the amount the Crown pays the Fund in the form of deferred employer contributions by between $14 million and $44 million a year.

 

"That is money the Government could better use elsewhere," Dr Cullen said.

 

The GSF now held most of its investments in bonds. Under the planned diversification, it would be able to invest more in New Zealand and overseas shares." 

 

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Is there anyone left on the planet that honestly believes you can fix the debt crisis with more debt?  Bill Gross is right, insofar as debt can be managable if you have growth.  Governements have lost sight of what debt is.  It is borrowed money, you have to pay it back, plus interest.  Government is never going to pay back its debt, and so our country is paying interest to creditors of into eternity. 

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skudiv,

I'm not sure they believe anything will fix the crisis. I think they just want to make it appear they're doing something. Plus bailing out the banks shields those who profitted massively from the orgy of credit creation of the past decade, from having to forfeit their illgotten gains. Which includes most of us to a greater or lesser extent, but logically the wealthy baby boomers gained most from it.

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To be blunt credit destruction will end it all.  Thats how it will end period(.)  You can bailout (read add more debt to the system) all you like, it increases the underlying.  Game over time to go back to sound money, and no more usury.  The debt slave interest money trap must go.

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Didn't get past the bit about inflation.  Nice try, but inflation is the devils mother.

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FYI from Ambrose:

Unless the European Central Bank step in very soon and on a massive scale to shore up Italy, the game is up. We will have a spectacular smash-up.

If handled badly, the disorderly insolvency of the world’s third largest debtor with €1.9 trillion in public debt and nearer €3.5 trillion in total debt would be a much greater event than the fall of Credit Anstalt in 1931.

 

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Wolly's answer....cut the top off Italy and hand it to the Germans to own along with the debts.

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Apound of flesh, no more, no less.

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Hey , no pounds allowed don't euro know ! ..

... we're metricated now  ,

The new expression is : "  450 grams of flesh , no fat , no carbon miles . "

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Antonio..! Antonio...! how many times have I told you Shylok's spirit still dwells in the heart of  Goldman Sachs.

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lol Wolly, Germany aren't any better when it comes to prudent monetary management. If German banks weren't so keen to engage in an orgy of credit creation under the protection of government guarantees, Europe wouldn't be in this mess.

"The EU argued that the state guarantees for the Landesbanken were illegal... The result was a postponement of the end of issuance of state guaranteed debt for all banks from 2001 to 2005, where the last bonds guaranteed would have to mature by 2015. The salient point is that there was only a time limit set in the agreement, but there was no volume limit, so the German state banks started to issue massive amounts of state-guaranteed debt after 2001. This money was not used to finance German or even European lending but simply to park funds in investment vehicles and make more money on it to boost their bottom lines. "

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/05/german-subprime-meltdown-interview-with-achim-dubel/
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Well you got the squid as the new head of the ECB, and who knows what thier game is.  Orderly insolvency will be so much better then disorderly I agree.  Simply put the ECB can only do one thing, issue more debt.  Now thats reassuring.  I feel all safe, now that the only way to stop the avalance is adding more snow.

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Ambrose is a bundle of laughs isn't he!

But probably right

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Why is it that everyone seems to believe the Greeks can't think?

Greece 1, France 0.

Put another way, Greek pragmatism beats French delusions of grandeur.

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Greeks have understood the adage; owe the banks a million, and you're in real trouble. Owe them 250bn, and they're in real trouble.

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The Greeks seem to be copping all the blame here as well..  Do lenders not have some fiduciary duty to borrowers to maintain prudent lending practices?

.... having just written that it now seems perposterous.. of course lenders owe no duty to borrowers or we wouldnt be in this mess. Yes quite right.. its all the borrowers fault, nothing to see here, move along now.

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Ever seen 300?

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revision.... got mixed up with Kirk Douglas in Sparticus

Yup..! and it's predecessor Three Hundred Spartans ( I think it was  Richard Egan) hence my reference to it yesterday to your good self.

It is thought one Spartan is worth three of any other race. and maybe four or five Germans

well obviosly not in monetary  terms.

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Yeh, thought so, I thought it was more like 9.  Excellent movie.

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"In a surprise move, on Tuesday evening the defence minister replaced the country’s top brass.


An extraordinary meeting of the Government Council of Foreign Affairs and Defence (Kysea), which comprises the prime minister and other key cabinet members, accepted Defence Minister Panos Beglitis' proposal that the following changes be made to army, navy and air force and the general staff:


•General Ioannis Giagkos, chief of the Greek National Defence General Staff, to be replaced by Lieutenant General Michalis Kostarakos
•Lieutenant General Fragkos Fragkoulis, chief of the Greek Army General Staff, to be replaced by lieutenant general Konstantinos Zazias
•Lieutenant General Vasilios Klokozas, chief of the Greek Air Force, to be replaced by air marshal Antonis Tsantirakis
•Vice-Admiral Dimitrios Elefsiniotis, chief of the Greek Navy General Staff, to be replaced by Rear-Admiral Kosmas Christidis

It is understood that the personnel changes took many members of the government and of the armed forces by surprise."

 

 http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/

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uh oh! Things not looking good... it's been a little while since Western Europe had a coup...

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What happened to Minister Muchos Fortunatos , was he replaced by Colonel Cerios Krisos?

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Mucho laugho loudo

cheers

Bernard

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The Greek referendum is neatly explained here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EXcMGqFeK8&NR=1

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Perhaps in the interest of the banks and euro pollies, the Greek vote should be 'managed' by the EU..........no!

Ok............silence.....who will 'manage' it then?

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But we suggest that the Greek government would get the help of the EU in persuading the population to vote in favour of the referendum. However, while any sweetening of the deal will also raise concerns regarding moral hazard, the EU will be extremely anxious to avoid the negative fallout that is likely to be generated by a failed referendum.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/morgan-stanley-what-happens-next-greece-and-why-it-all-very-euro-negative

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The Hellenic Chamber of Commerce President’s figures are chilling, 80,000 bankruptcies, 250,000 private sector lost jobs. He predicts another 150.000 bankruptcies, that would project a further 470,000 lost private sector jobs

There’s likely to be confidence vote on Friday, which PapaAndy will probably lose – so the referendum may never happen, but an election probably will.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/p00ldwzd

 

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"The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that it's difficult to

determine whether or not they are genuine." - Abraham Lincoln

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"The internet is serious business" - annonomous

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FYI nice link to before and after pictures of Japanese Tsunami scenes

http://blogs.sacbee.com/photos/2011/09/japan-marks-6-months-since-ear.html

 

HT Rod Drury via twitter

cheers

Bernard

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Yes - impressive pictures and an illustration what people and technology can do in a short time only. The sad reality is 1’000 of people, who helped/ worked gloriously for the clean up have massive health risks, while the few, who ordered the clean up are sitting in their offices 300km away in Tokyo.

Here the latest:

 http://fairewinds.com/content/scientist-marco-kaltofen-presents-data-co…

..and Japan is flourishing like crazy - HA -!!!

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Re #3

We all know once general fund managers have piled into bonds, it will only be a short wait before interest rates back up. After all someone will be selling those bonds and locking in their gains.

Also who would have thought holding no capital against a sovereign bond would work out badly.

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From Sprott - This is one of those themes that makes up what I call the 'envelope of possibilities' - setting limits on the future course of events. Oil is a big one.

http://www.industrymailout.com/Industry/View.aspx?id=311141&q=374819641&qz=6df5f9

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Esssential reading - haven't seen a Sprott analysis for some time.

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RE #6

When you read the full article they use a mix of statistics.

Some are 'Household Debt' (HHD) and others are 'Mortgage Debt' (MD).

The HHD for the US is 100% but MD is 75%

California HHD 145% MD 115%

Texas HHD 70% MD 50%

Do Californians just like borrowing?

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Greece MUST and SHOULD default. It's the only way and will kickstart  the snowball effect we should of had back in 2008-2009. The Bailouts only delayed the inevitable. COMPLETE financial destruction and a clean slate to rebuild on.

It's happening people, like it or not. Be prepared. It will get seriously ugly out there. 

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The confluence of related change has been masked to some extent by the dizzying variety of big media stories. But put together after the event, they are linked in a manner that is far from accidental. If you like, a growing awareness (often through new media) has highlighted just how much malign behaviour is being practised by people who are anything from incurably narcissistic to completely bonkers; and alongside this, how lazy, agenda-ridden, censorious and gullible most of the mass media are in communicating important information. In short, the world has looked increasingly like a stitch-up, with almost all of us outside the tent.

  http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2011/11/02/at-the-end-of-the-day-93/#commen…  
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Australians warned 'your super is going to die before you do'

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/money/superannuation/most-australians-will-outlive-their-super/story-e6frfmdi-1226183662943#ixzz1cWbLX7vl I'm not up to speed on what's going on across the ditch...but is there not a risk that the equities in which the funds invest, could well slide in real terms over the next thirty years~!

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Of course they will, they are being 'corporate lunched away' by the financial sector.

Have a look at the 10yr returns to date by the big funds, not pretty. Many growth or agressive portfolios are underperforming cash.

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Yes and badly.....hence why I am so opposed to compulsory kiwisaver......it will lose money and the remains will be directed by "pollies" into NZ focused "investments" that benefit the Pollies....its really just another tax.  The only sane thing right now is to be in cash and pay off debt.....

regards

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All further suggestions from 'steven' will now be censored for fear of the general public learning too much.

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Na.....they are in denial......a large hard clue bat will be needed.....its coming soon....

regards

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Laws outlawing all public discussion related to; govt idiocy, banking greed and anything else the govt regards as a threat to their line of spin spewing from wgtn...will soon be passed by regulation 'Piggy" fashion. Argentinian laws to be used as model to prevent the truth escaping into the market. Your cell awaits you steven!

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Its sure looking that way in Europe....banning shorting is just the start....I expect the rating agencies will either be banned from the EU and a EU commission set up to determine such a rating....or amalgamated into some Brusel's dept with the same result, all in the not to disant future......probably around the time France drops to AA or A....quite why it holds AAA right now is mind boggling.

Cell, well they have to then feed me......keeping me chained  with debt "in my own home" means no costs for them....I cant see them locking me up.....

and no one pays me any attention anyway....

regards

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Steven,

Do you honestly think that the testimony by a credit ratings agency is worth diddlysquat? The unsustainability of European government finances is hardly a new phenomonen now is it? It hardly takes a report by Standard & Poors to show that European debts is not exactly a good investment prospect lol. Its just a means of political leverage thats used by global banks to control economic policy formation by the world's governments, for their own interests. What do you think the financial crisises of South  America in the 1980s , 1990s, and 2001,  the Russian Crisis of the early 1990s, the Asian Crisis in 1997, and the still occuring Third World debt crisis are about? 

 

  Market participants raised criticisms that the credit rating agencies were not only lax in foreseeing the vulnerabilities of the countries that eventually succumbed to crisis, but that they also responded to negative developments too slowly. This means that they were downgrading the debtor countries only after the onset of the crisis, thereby exacerbating market price movements and increasing instability (see, e.g., International Monetary Fund (1998)). http://www.soc.uoc.gr/econ/wpa/docs/CFS-WP1.pdf
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Ratings agencies......they are there to fool two groups of people.....the voters and the pension funds the voters put money into who can only buy AAA IMHO.  Im sure the pension funds know only to well its dodgy crap but someone else says its all good, it isnt their money at risk and the fund managers want their bonuses.....so no Qs asked then.  Everyone else, or if you will the bond vigilanties are well enough "educated" that they do their own work.....after all the money to be made is in the "gaps".....and jumping between them at the right time.

"lax" of course, they believe the neo-classical 'free market" dogma of the right....and Govn debt bad, private debt good (as it cancels out)....even now they only worry about the risk to a Govn of having to take on the private debt because its default otherwise....so private companies should really have terrible credit ratings....but if that happens no one will pay the ratings agencies....once huge corrupt ponzi scheme end to end.

"This means that they were downgrading the debtor countries only after the onset of the crisis, thereby exacerbating market price movements and increasing instability"

Yes very much so.....but again when the likes of Ireland is doing so "well" and you have a huge set of blinkers....there is no way you are going to see the brick wall coming at you from off centre.......hence to my mind wearing any blinkers be they right or left is dis-advantaging yourself.....

Oh and I think they are still to slow to downgrade.....no way is France worth AAA....the ones probably worth a decent rating are developing nations who have resources and have all debt under control....anyone else is a basket case right now....even NZ is questionable.....

regards

 

 

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the greeks owe 51billion in tax arrears.

don't pay your dues and you are going to end up like Zimbabwe.

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pt 2. Bill Gross' comments are a good summary of the problems we face.

1/ Can a debt crisis be solved with more debt....    Answer ... Yes.... as long as it generates growth..  ( thou...this is still a form of kicking the can down the road)

2/ Growth becomes very important ... it is everything... ( this is what National are counting on )

3/ Trouble is.... the lack of global growth is a STRUTURAL as opposed to cyclical issue and therefore the normal ways of stimulating the economy don't work.

4/ Sovereign debt at 80-90% of GDP acts as a barrier to growth

Conclusion : Creating more debt can no longer generate meaningful growth, and employment.

(Bill also alludes to how the emerging economies are now transmitting inflationary pressures back to developed economies..... so Global monetary policy  will have more of an effect on CPI inflation than it has in the past. )

Looking at NZ , and the way that National are managing the economy.... I can only guess that they believe that the Global recession was cyclical and that NZ can borrow and then grow its' way out of its' debt problems..????

In this regard ...I think they might have "backed the wrong horse".

cheers  Roelof

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Well put, and yes it is structural......to grow the world's economy 4% needs 2.5% more cheap energy.......guess what, we cant do another 2.5% and sustain it for long or if we can, we wont do another 2.5%.....and its worse than even that....

We are on a fossil fuel production plateau with an in-elastic price structure for oil.....(ie it takes a large price move to effect a  reduction of consumption because it is so essential).......at some point when we drop off that plateau it will very probably be a significant drop initially....8% per year for 2 or 4 years cis realistic....that means our world economy will shrink in a depression number ie > 10% per annum for that time period.....this is really a fact...the only Q is when...

"backed the wrong horse"....trouble is there is no other horse that the electorate in their ignorance or the Pollie is willing to contemplate......and Labour have placed the same bet...the only other hrose is the one ofhuge planning for a long term (30 years) contraction so the pain is minimalised..........(I can hear Tribeless and philbest choking on their porridge now)......no one else will buy that.....yet.....and the impacts are not good ....eg  younsters/students and taking on debt for tertiary education to get  the jobs they want that wont exist.....long term.....4 or 5 years and $20k wasted.....oops.....

regards

 

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Extreme property tightening measure in China.

The southern Chinese city of Zhuhai set a ceiling on residential property trasactions, becoming the first Chinese city to do so and triggering concerns of similar curbs in other cities.

The price ceiling of 11,285 yuan ($1,776) per square meter for residential property transactions, which took effect Tuesday, appears to be the most extreme property tightening measure in China so far.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204394804577012724065016802.html?mod=WSJAsia_hpp_LEFTTopStories

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Interesting link about the City of London Corporation within the link for number 7 above (link is  below)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/31/corporation-london-…

 

World Financial control = City of London

World Religious control = Vatican City

World Military control = District of Columbia

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John Armstrong gives Labour the 'kiss of death' in the Herald this morning!

 "Fate may yet prove otherwise, but Labour has increasing cause to believe its worst fears are no longer going to materialise during this month's election campaign."

Goofy unable to eat his porridge when he read that!

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LOL.....Labour is 30%.....National  is 55% .....a month out.....Labour is toast.......

but I think they know that...hence the "outlandish" policies....they are looking for angles for 2014.....

The only left wing gainers look to be the Green's.....I assume that those so inclined are deciding not to strategcially vote Labour this time as its pointless so are going where they want.........interesting that ACT is still no where.....3% ish....so much for Donny B saving them and getting 10%.......I hope they lose Epsom.....then bye bye....

regards

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