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Voters cast their ballots as the Presidential race between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris may come down to a photo-finish in crucial swing states

Public Policy / news
Voters cast their ballots as the Presidential race between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris may come down to a photo-finish in crucial swing states
[updated]
6th Nov 24, 8:11am by Dan Brunskill
Kamala Harris and Donald Trump on the campaign trail
Kamala Harris and Donald Trump on the campaign trail

By Dan Brunskill and Ella Somers

Two news networks have called the US Presidential Election for Donald Trump, after he won the critical state of Pennsylvania cutting off Kamala Harris’ only path to victory.

North Carolina, Georgia, and Pennsylvania have all been called for the Republican candidate, meaning Harris cannot win even if she takes Michigan and Wisconsin.

These states were once part of the ‘Blue Wall’ but voted for Trump in 2016. As of midnight in the United States, the former president had again secured a narrow lead in all three states. 

Kamala Harris has opted not to speak at her election night party, saying she wants to wait for more votes to be counted. Donald Trump may still speak at his event.

Meanwhile, Republicans have won enough seats to take control of the Senate and there’s a chance the party will sweep all three branches of the federal government.


 

10pm
That’s us done with the US election live blog today. Thanks for reading and following along. Goodnight!

9:35pm

The AP has confirmed that Trump won Pennsylvania which was seen as the most important battleground state of this election.

Trump has given a very rambly election night speech where he’s claimed presidential victory — although the AP hasn’t confirmed this yet.

Why? The AP says it hasn't called the race yet because it is still waiting for late vote updates from Michigan’s Wayne County and Wisconsin’s Milwaukee County. These are two Democratic strongholds — and present Harris’ only path to win either state, AP says.

However, world leaders are already congratulating Trump on his assumed win, like the French President and the Israeli Prime Minister.

8:15pm: AP still hasn't called it but Donald Trump will be the next President of the United States. The former president has a three point lead in Pennsylvania with more than 95% of votes counted. Harris has no path to victory.​​​​​​

8:05pm: NBC has called Pennsylvania for Trump. Technically they haven't called the election, because Alaska hasn't been called, but it means Harris cannot win. 

7:50pm: Fox News has called the election for Donald Trump, but other networks are holding off. The most authoritative source is the Associated Press, so we’ll wait for that one.

7:42pm: 

We are waiting for Pennsylvania to be called, as 93% of votes have been counted and Trump is up three points, and for the former president to speak at his campaign event. After that, the election is over.

7:10pm:

Trump has won Georgia and the AP says the map to a Harris win has now “shrunk”. And at this point, she can't lose critical swing state Pennsylvania and reach the 270 electoral votes she needs in order to win.

Around 93% of the Pennsylvania votes have been counted so far, with 51.2% for Trump compared to 47.8% for Harris.

6:50pm:

Trump's biggest campaign donor, the billionaire Elon Musk, recently took to Twitter/X to post this:

 

6:45pm:

Kamala Harris won’t speak at her election night rally tonight and will wait for the morning and more state results. Democratic party member Julian Castro said the vibe was “eerily similar” when Hilary Clinton lost the 2016 election. 

6:41pm

CNN has projected that Trump will take Georgia but the win hasn't been confirmed yet.

6:05pm

NBC reports that Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger believes Trump has an “insurmountable lead” in the key state.

Approximately 95% of the votes in Georgia have been counted and the NYT says Trump has 50.8% of the vote compared to Harris' 48.5%. Georgia is considered one of the critical swing states in this election and holds 16 electoral votes.

The AP says Harris has won Hawaii, making it the tenth presidential election in a row where Hawaii has picked the Democratic Party candidate.

6pm:

Blue wall or bust: Kamala Harris’ path to the White House has become perilously narrow as Donald Trump has won North Carolina and looks likely to win Georgia. This means she needs to win Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin to eke out a win. 

However, Trump currently leads in all three of those states. A state official in Pennsylvania said on Twitter that rural counties were 95% counted, while there were still hundreds of thousands of suburban votes to be counted.

SHORT STORY FOR PENNSYLVANIA.

Many rural counties are >95%+ done counting.

Montgomery County is only at 50% so far & all the Philadelphia Suburbs still have *hundreds of thousands* of votes to count.

This is gonna take time. Patience, people.

— Commissioner Neil Makhija (@NeilMakhija) November 6, 2024

It is almost midnight in the United States and the Democratic campaign is telling supporters not to stay up for a result tonight as the swing states won’t be called. Harris cannot really afford to lose any of them. The New York Times gives Trump a 90% chance of victory.

5:37pm: 

First swing state falls: The Associated Press has called North Carolina for Donald Trump, handing him the first of seven swing states needed to win the election. He only needs another 40 electoral votes. 

Meanwhile, the New York Times has reported people are leaving Kamala Harris’ election night rally after an announcement that the race would not be called tonight. Polls have now closed in all the continental states, with only Hawaii and Alaska still accepting ballots.

5:20pm: 

NBC news reports say Trump has transitioned to “party mode” and is considering heading to his election night rally to give a speech — possibly to prematurely declare victory. 

Meanwhile, a Democratic memo has been circulated saying a Harris win would always come through the “blue wall states” which won’t be called until late in the night, or even tomorrow. — DB

5:15pm: 

Crypto climbing: Bitcoin has bounced more than 8% to an all time record high of $125,000 as the odds of Trump winning the election continue to increase. The cryptocurrency sector has embraced the Republican candidate hoping that he will loosen regulations.

The Federal Trade Commission has been bringing crypto and decentralised finance products into the existing financial regulation frameworks, as they become increasingly mainstream.

Polymarket, a crypto-based betting market, now gives Trump a greater than 90% chance of winning the election.

Polls in California, Washington, Idaho and Oregon have closed. Harris has won California, her home state, which has 54 electoral votes as well as Washington which has 12 electoral votes. 

Trump has won Idaho which has 4 electoral votes. Oregon has yet to be called.

Winning Washington and California has helped bump Harris' electoral vote count up to 179 although Trump is still leading with 214.  

4:35pm: 

If you have been obsessing over this election and its implications for the global economy, please know that many US voters have not been. There has been a surge in Google searches asking if Joe Biden has dropped out of the election. 

For those just joining us: yes, he dropped out and VP Kamala Harris is running in his place. – DB

4:18pm:

Iowa called for Trump: A last minute Ann Selzer poll in the red-leaning state of Iowa showed Harris ahead and sparked speculation that others polls may be undercounting her support. 

That does not seem to be the case and Iowa has been called for Donald Trump, making it the third time he has won the state. Kamala Harris really needs a win, she leads in only two of the seven swing states – DB

4:15pm

Harris has won Colorado, picking up 10 electoral votes. Colorado used to be a swing (or purple) state but has been blue for the past two decades. – ES

4:10: 

Here’s another sign Trump may be winning: The US dollar has climbed significantly against its peers. Analysts expect his presidency to result in higher interest rates than Kamala Harris, which would boost the US dollar.

A rising US dollar may mean traders are looking at the early results and buying accordingly... -- DB

4:07pm

Polls in Utah, Nevada and Montana have closed. Trump has won Utah, Montana and also Missouri according to the AP. 
Trump has a 5% lead ahead of Harris in North Carolina where 67% of the votes have now been counted.

The Georgia vote count continues and has now been 83% completed, with Trump still ahead of Harris by a roughly 5% lead. It will be interesting to see if the remaining vote count leans more blue or if the red lead continues. – ES

3:55pm

There are hours to go until the final polls close in the United States and days before all the votes are counted and weeks until the election is certified. Any yet, betting markets appear to have called the result already. 

Odds on platforms such as Polymarket, Kalshi, and PredictIt have swung progressively towards Trump since the vote count started and now give him a near 80% chance of winning.

The New York Times has relaunched its infamous ‘needle’ and it gives Trump a 70% chance of a second term in the White House. The paper’s chief political analyst said “the race leans toward Donald Trump”.  – DB

3:29pm

Trump has won the third Congressional District in Nebraska and one electoral vote. Trump has also won Texas and he now has 178 electoral votes while Harris currently has 99. – ES

3:25pm

Swing states: It is still early days for our seven swing states which will likely decide the election. But Trump is leading the count in three, compared to Harris’ two. 

Trump is up about 5 points in Georgia with 70% counted and in North Carolina where 40% of votes have been reported, plus he has a 24 point lead in Wisconsin where only 2% of votes are in. 

Harris leads in Pennsylvania by 20 points with 20% of votes counted and in Michigan where she is up 7 points with 10% of votes counted. No votes have been reported in Arizona or Nevada yet. – DB

3:10pm

Harris has won New York and Trump has just won North and South Dakota, Ohio, Wyoming and Louisiana. A decision on Texas is still to come.

3:08pm

Georgia closer than it looks: Two thirds of the votes have been counted in key swing state Georgia, and Trump looks like he is more than 10 points ahead; but not so fast! 

The votes which have been counted are weighted towards rural areas and many urban polling booths are yet to report. If Harris does well in these more urban vote counts she could take the state, but it is gonna be close.  – DB

3:02pm

Polls close in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Arizona: Voting has closed in 15 states which together have 163 electoral votes, including three critical swing states. 

Wisconsin and Michigan are both part of the so-called Blue Wall which used to vote for Democrats but was captured by Trump as working class Americans swung towards him.

Arizona is a southern state which shares a border with Mexico and has been more focused on immigration than those other states which may be more focused on economics. 

These races are still too close to call, but Texas, Wyoming, and North and South Dakota will go to Trump when all votes are counted.

2:53pm

More polls are about to close! They are in: Arizona, Colorado, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Nebraska, New Mexico, New York, North Dakota, South Dakota, Texas, Wisconsin and Wyoming. – ES

2:46pm

AP says Harris has won Delaware, New Jersey and Illinois while Trump has won Arkansas. On the electoral votes front, Delaware has 3, New Jersey has 14, Illinois has 19 and Arkansas has 6. Trump is still in the lead. – ES

2:15pm:

South Carolina has been called for Trump. It's another early win in a safe state. 

At this stage in the evening it doesn’t feel like a good night for Kamala Harris but states are called in a fairly random fashion and it's too early to say anything meaningful about performance. – DB

2:05pm

Seventeen states close polls: NBC has called Florida, Massachusetts, Tennessee, Missouri, Alabama, and Oklahoma for Donald Trump taking him to 95 electoral college votes. 

Meanwhile, Maryland and the District of Columbia have been called for Kamala Harris, getting her to 35 electoral college votes – DB

2pm:

Betting platform Polymarket has put Trump ahead of Harris winning the presidential election. Bets on Trump are currently around 70 US cents and bets on Harris are currently around 30 US cents. – ES

1:53pm

Only 20% of the votes in Georgia have been counted so far and Trump has 59.6% of the votes while Harris in comparison has 39.9%. Georgia, which has 16 electoral votes, has been described as the key “battleground” state. Biden narrowly won Georgia by a very small amount in the 2020 election. – ES

1:50pm 

Babydog takes Washington: While we obsess over the Presidential race it is worth remembering Congressional elections are also being held. Either presidential candidate will struggle to get things done if their parties do not win a majority in the House and Senate. 

Republicans only have to flip a couple seats in the Senate to win a majority and have already secured one in West Virginia. Jim Justice, the heir to a coal mining fortune, has easily won the seat previously held by an independent Senator who voted mostly with Democrats. 

Besides being the son of a coal baron, Justice has a pet bulldog named Babydog who is expected to join him in Washington DC – DB

1:39pm

171 electoral votes will be up for grabs when polls in the following areas close at 8 p.m. ET (2pm here): Alabama, Connecticut, D.C., Delaware, Florida, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Tennessee. New Hampshire and Florida will see some results earlier. – ES 

1:31pm

Polls close in second swing state: Voting has closed in North Carolina, another of the seven swing states, with 16 electoral votes up for grabs. Pre-election polls showed Trump was favoured to win this race but it will be another close one.

Ohio and West Virginia, safe Republican states, have also closed the polls and will likely mean Trump picks up another 21 electoral votes. WC has been called already but not Ohio where no votes have yet been counted. 

1:08pm

First states called: Polls have closed in a handful of states, two of which have already been called by NBC News. Kentucky and Indiana will go to Trump and Vermont to Harris, giving them 19 and three Electoral College votes respectively. We are a long way from the 270 votes needed to win.

Georgia, the first of seven critical swing states, has also closed its polls but it is much too early to call a winner with very few votes counted. Exit polls showed Trump winning 54% of independent voters, a stronger result than he got in 2020.  -- DB

12:50pm

Here in NZ, the morning has flown by and much caffeine has been consumed. Over in the US, millions of people have turned out to vote on election day and the first polls have closed, starting in Kentucky and Indiana. More polls will start closing over the next few hours. The Guardian has a good hour-by-hour rundown (in Eastern Standard Time) on when the polls are closing and where.  

Lucky (or unlucky?) for political junkies here in NZ, all the polls will be wrapped up from Wednesday evening our time – so there will be lots of election news to chew over for many hours to come. More caffeine needed. — ES

12:42pm

According to initial results from CNN’s national exit poll of US election voters, 46% of voters have a positive view of Harris, but not of Trump and 42% of voters hold a positive view of Trump, but not of Harris. – ES 

12:30pm

Eyeballs need a break from obsessive scrolling? Great range of photos from the final hours of the presidential campaign here on Reuters. — ES

12:15pm 

Trump said it has been a fair election “so far” and he would concede if he lost, but complained the process was too complicated after voting in Florida this morning. 

This breaks from comments he made at various rallies through the campaign, when he said could only lose if the election was rigged. He refused to accept the outcome of the 2020 election—which he lost—and many pundits are concerned he would do so again.

US law enforcement officials charged him with election fraud for allegedly pressuring state officials to overturn Joe Biden’s win that year. However, the Supreme Court has prevented those charges from being brought to trial. — DB

11:35am

Fox News has reported that 900,000 voters have voted in Georgia on election day so far, according to the Georgia Secretary of State’s office. Georgia is one of the seven states expected to swing the election. Georgia got over 4 million early votes. The other six swing states this election are Arizona, Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.  – ES

11:16am

Westpac economist Jameson Coombs said in a morning note that a “likely close” race meant it could be some time before a US election result is called. Coombs said markets are likely to be volatile and reactive to headlines on the progress of votes. – ES

10:52am
Elon Musk, the billionaire CEO of Tesla and SpaceX, took to Twitter/X to announce he’s cast his vote in Texas. According to the New York Times, Musk has poured US$119 million into Trump’s election campaign and will be spending election night with Trump. Musk also bought Twitter/X in 2022. – ES

10:38am

CNN says US stocks rallied on election day, with the S&P 500 gaining 1.2%, the Nasdaq rising 1.4% and the Dow up over 1%. This is the sixth US election in a row where the S&P 500 and Nasdaq have posted gains on election day. – ES

10:10am

Yahoo Finance reported earlier that Trump Media & Technology Group stock (DJT) had been “briefly halted” because of trading volatility. Here's where the share price was at when the stock finished trading for the day in the US. – ES

9:20am

A cartoon from Matt Wuerker, the staff cartoonist and illustrator for POLITICO. – ES

9:12am: Things that happened while NZ was sleeping

  • Trump cast his ballot in Florida. (Harris voted by mail ahead of election day, casting her ballot to California.)
  • The Election Lab at the University of Florida says over 85 million people voted early. Of the advance votes cast before election day, over 46 million were in-person and over 39 million were via mail. 
  • A man was arrested by police for trying to enter the US Capitol with a flare gun and torch. Authorities say the man smelled like petrol. The Associated Press says authorities are on heightened alert for security issues around the Capitol building in Washington due to it being attacked by Donald Trump supporters in January 2021. 
  • The FBI says it’s aware of bomb threats to polling locations in several states but none of the threats have been determined to be credible “thus far”. According to the FBI, many of the bomb threats appear to have originated from Russian email domains.  – ES

12:00am

Polymarket, a cryptocurrency betting market, gives Donald Trump a 62% chance of winning the election. This is much more favourable than most traditional polling averages and prediction models.

 

Polling guru Nate Silver’s forecast model gave Kamala Harris a “50.015%” chance on the eve of the election, as did the FiveThirtyEight model. The Economist’s prediction was 56% in favour of Harris, largely due to a rush of last minute polls showing her ahead in key states. 

A shock poll by famous pollster Ann Selzer showed Harris with a clear lead in Iowa, a state which Trump won easily in the past two elections. This may have been an outlier but it caused a big reaction in betting markets, with the odds swinging towards Harris.

There had been a growing consensus that Trump was likely to win and many Wall Street investors were making trades likely to pay off in that outcome; but that suddenly looks less certain. 

Iowa was not on the list of seven states expected to swing the election: Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.  – DB

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266 Comments

by  David Chaston  |  6th Nov 24, 8:07am 1730833660

Please keep commenting civil today. Everyone has a view, but try not to disparage others' views. Robust commenting is ok, but please be respectful of others.

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27
by  dumbthoughts  |  6th Nov 24, 8:24am 1730834698

Nah let's get completely bent out of shape and abuse each other about an election the vast majority of us can't even vote in. That's totally normal behaviour.

At least we can now argue about something that isn't "is house market line going up or down".

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by  USKiwi  |  6th Nov 24, 8:32am 1730835124

Quick out the of blocks to add zero value this morning - while at the same time giving the impression that you like plonking yourself right at the top of the moral high ground. You do realise that you aren't forced to comment if you have nothing constructive to say :-)   

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by  dumbthoughts  |  6th Nov 24, 8:38am 1730835514

Based on your username, you can presumably 'add value' because if you are a USKiwi I guess you can vote?

For someone like me who can observe but not participate, what actual value can be added? This is a discussion thread about the US election, and I find it genuinely strange how worked up people get about an election they cannot participate in (fair play if you are able to participate). That, to me, is more interesting of a phenomenon than either Kamala Harris or Donald Trump.

For the record I don't like either candidate. Gun to my head in a hypothetical scenario where I could vote in the US election, I would have voted for RFK pre joining Trump's team - despite him being bat$hit crazy - purely because I can't recall any other political candidate anywhere, ever, who has raised the elephant in the room of needing to improve the public's overall health (doesn't mean I agree with his more conspirational theories). 

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by  USKiwi  |  6th Nov 24, 9:02am 1730836976

Nope, can't vote. Set up my username when I was based in the US working for a few years. I think anyone interested in global trade (all NZ export businesses) and anyone interested in international security will likely be quite interested in the outcome of this election. Our history with the US is significant - allies in two world wars, and who knows - they could lead us into a third. So personally, I think it's an important election regardless of whether you can vote or note.      

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by  the Joneses  |  6th Nov 24, 10:26am 1730842007

What exactly do you want politicians to do about your health? Put taxes up on unhealthy food/activities? They already tax the legal drugs a lot and restrict advertising. Make you go for a jog? Make visibly fat people go for a jog? More cycle lanes, I heard those are not popular? Outlaw cigarettes? We tried that, but political donations go a long way these days.

RFK wants to end vaccines and remove flouride from the water supply. He should not be anywhere near control of a countries health.

Or is this just actually a ploy to further restrict healthcare access to those considered not worthy?

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by  jakenz  |  6th Nov 24, 11:30am 1730845837

RFK wants to end vaccines and remove flouride from the water supply. He should not be anywhere near control of a countries health.

 

Sure... https://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/whatwestudy/assessments/noncancer/completed/fluoride

The NTP monograph concluded that higher levels of fluoride exposure, such as drinking water containing more than 1.5 milligrams of fluoride per liter, are associated with lower IQ in children.

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by  Threecents  |  6th Nov 24, 12:01pm 1730847688

Interesting link, thanks

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by  David Chaston  |  6th Nov 24, 12:05pm 1730847925

New Zealand doses at 0.7 milligrams/L, so half that threshold which is why there is zero problem. Only in the minds of some who can't do/read science.

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by  Rampart  |  6th Nov 24, 12:18pm 1730848689

But what about the calcification of one’s third eye David? 

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by  Eschaton  |  6th Nov 24, 5:04pm 1730865865

Fluoride is not an essential nutrient. 

 

Fluoride is a toxin that antagonizes iodine, which is essential to thyroid function, and thyroid during development is a major determinant of growth and IQ. 

 

Fluoride makes mineralized tissues acid-resistant. This opposes tooth decay and in bones it causes defects in strength because acid-mediated bone remodeling is essential to making bones match the needs of their environment. Excess fluoride discolors and mottles teeth but bones are more sensitive to negative effects. 

 

Animal experiments showing behavioral abnormalities in response to low levels of fluoride have been around for decades. 

 

One of the early observations in support of fluoride was a low level of tooth decay in Hereford, TX, where there was a high concentration of fluoride in the water. 

 

This was because they had 13 feet of glacial top soil that mineralized the plants with essential nutrients so well that they rejected all the fluoride and left it in the water. 

 

The butterfat of their cattle was so nutritious that after sampling 20,000 butters across the world Weston Price decided to import all of his cream from that one place in TX. He used centrifuged butter oil from it — containing no fluoride — as part of a protocol to HEAL established dentin-infected cavities in his patients. 

 

Teeth do not need fluoride. They never have. There has never been a good case for its essentiality. 

 

There has always been a reasonable concern over its toxicity.

Chris Masterjohn PHD  https://www.chrismasterjohn-phd.com/

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by  TronMVP  |  6th Nov 24, 8:32pm 1730878369

Thanks for the link. Certainly an interesting read.

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by  Threecents  |  6th Nov 24, 6:01pm 1730869271

David seems more confident of the science than the US Dept of Health.

From their web site in the above link.

It is important to note, however, that there were insufficient data to determine if the low fluoride level of 0.7 mg/L currently recommended for U.S. community water supplies has a negative effect on children’s IQ.

 

That is not the sort of categorical safety statement I would prefer to read when they are dosing a public water supply.

Further, people may not be aware that previously the dosing levels have been higher (In NZ and elsewhere).  From section 2.3.2 of the following link.

This is well above the fluoride content of 1.5 mg/L recommended by the Drinking Water Standards of New Zealand 2005 (revised 2008).

https://www.waternz.org.nz/Attachment?Action=Download&Attachment_id=1305

Hopefully history will prove the current dosing level is indeed safe because it appears we have used higher levels of fluoride previously which are now questionable.

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by  the Joneses  |  6th Nov 24, 12:37pm 1730849855

"Since 1945, the use of fluoride has been a successful public health initiative for reducing dental cavities and improving general oral health of adults and children."

"The NTP found no evidence that fluoride exposure had adverse effects on adult cognition."

Thanks for the support jakenz.

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by  Nzdan  |  6th Nov 24, 9:06am 1730837200

It's just an extension of our great Kiwi pastime.  Completely hating on some stranger on the internet because they vote National or Labour, flinging all sorts of witty and humorous blended insults and hyperbole to compensate for whatever insecurities one is battling with.  

We haven't been involved in a global scale war in a long time, so the enemy is no longer some communist country halfway around the world, it's the "communist" voter down the street.  

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by  Retired-Poppy  |  6th Nov 24, 9:35am 1730838904

There's been a run on pitchforks and lanterns....

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by  Contrarian  |  6th Nov 24, 10:07am 1730840840

Hope the results are clear and there will be no riots/court action. That will dictate the markets.

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by  solardb  |  6th Nov 24, 8:26am 1730834816

Turnout will be key , and Trump drives people to vote, for and against him.

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by  Hastings  |  6th Nov 24, 8:27am 1730834861

Hope there’s a clear and uncontested result. Hope female voters determine it.

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by  NZGecko  |  6th Nov 24, 8:34am 1730835277

I actually think it will be determined by the large block of Latino/Black US voters flocking to the Republican side, in historically record numbers.

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by  averagejoe  |  6th Nov 24, 8:55am 1730836551

Correct. Demographics supporting Republicans have changed, voter registration favours republicans particularly in Pennsylvania. US public also has the same or worse opinion of Biden-Harris as NZ public did of Ardern-Hipkins going into last election. Inflation has hurt Americans possibly worse than here, and 80% say the country is on the wrong track. So this points to a Republican victory, and possible a clean sweep with them odds on you take the senate. I don’t know the statistics but I think it would be unlikely that a party has ever been re-elected when they are so far behind in all of the key metrics the public care about (economy, inflation, crime, border disaster being the top four) Of course I could be wrong, but I think it’s very unlikely the democrats will get back based on ‘Joy’. They haven’t been able to campaign on their record, which is very telling. I was a huge Bill Clinton fan, but democrats have gone down hill quickly through the Obama-Biden terms. They are very different now, a shadow of what they were. If they lose look for a big reset from them.

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by  Foxglove.  |  6th Nov 24, 9:21am 1730838065

Trump’s win in 2016 was carried in part by the anti establishment vote. Whatever he was, offered a clear alternative. Would seem that sentiment has re-emerged and of late possibly strengthened because Biden was very much deep in the establishment and his presidency perceived as such and Harris did not or could not get out of the shadow of that. She remained as unsubstantial and offered no significant change. As pointed out there is nothing like the financial hurt of inflation or other grievances such as immigration to motivate the people to be anti establishment.

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by  solardb  |  6th Nov 24, 9:02am 1730836976

If they vote. Then there is the Puerto Rican comment , obviously hurt Trump with puerto ricans , but how many other latino minority voters will think , could be talking about us .  I think they could probably call the elelection early (media that is ), based on who they observe voting, if the young black men turn out, Trump has a chance , if its mainly women , harris is president.

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by  safeashouses  |  6th Nov 24, 9:10am 1730837436

NZGECKO - yus we agree on something

 

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by  interesting1234  |  6th Nov 24, 4:16pm 1730862996

Better get a lotto ticket for this one

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by  Rampart  |  6th Nov 24, 8:56am 1730836565

Why do you want females to determine it?

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by  Here.for.the.c…  |  6th Nov 24, 8:59am 1730836795

Presumably because majority of women favour Harris and they would like her to win.

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by  safeashouses  |  6th Nov 24, 9:29am 1730838591

@here - why are they favouring Harris? Policy or just cause she is a woman?  (i kind of think that perhaps woman would vote for Harris cause they don't like Trump) however Trump played a blinder yesterday check out youbtube Megan Kelly Joins trump at PA rally.   I think it was a great move by trump 

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by  M0ralHazard  |  6th Nov 24, 9:36am 1730838976

"why are they favouring Harris?"

Trump's history and comments about women might have something to do with it too

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by  safeashouses  |  6th Nov 24, 9:50am 1730839821

Fair enough - i guess i am just trying to understand if people voting because they don't like trump or they care for policy?  Maybe both.  who would you say does more for woman?  Trump or Harris?  and an example will be great?

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by  the Joneses  |  6th Nov 24, 10:30am 1730842243

The right want to outlaw abortions outright, and are doing all they can to make that a reality. It is a main talking point in the election.

 

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by  safeashouses  |  6th Nov 24, 10:46am 1730843164

@thejoneses - I get that (if we can pro choice to one side) I know this is a major point  (the reason i am asking to place to one side is because not 100% of democrats are for it and not 100% are against it) - apart from that who does more for woman?  Check this out last night - Megan Kelly joins trump at PA rally -i feel this might be turning point.

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by  the Joneses  |  6th Nov 24, 12:47pm 1730850445

What? A Fox presenter supports Trump? What a shock!

Are you trying to bring anti-trans rhetoric into the discussion, but to afraid to write it? That is the only 'women's issue' she raised.

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by  safeashouses  |  6th Nov 24, 4:06pm 1730862413

@the joness' let me just be clear - I asked a question - that was it.  I am unsure how you got to the above conclusion - I am not anti anyone 

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by  the Joneses  |  6th Nov 24, 4:46pm 1730864786

OK. You suggesting Trump does more for women and linked to an interview you suggested that changes everything. After asking people to disregard the main argument. I assumed you were making a point?

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by  safeashouses  |  7th Nov 24, 5:46am 1730911560

@the jones..  I made no statement - the interview suggested he did not me- its not my opinion,  I said i think trump played a blinder there (once again, I did not say I agree, )   and by the look of it allot of people agreed in America - once again my opinion has never seen the light of day -  it seems he read the room correct ?  once again its my observation.  Also my observation is that you miss read this whole election?

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by  GoWokeGobroke  |  6th Nov 24, 4:41pm 1730864512

@ the Joneses - I'll write it. 

You can percieve yourself anyway you want, but you cannot expect or demand that others perceived you in the same way that you perceived yourself. This is entitlement from the spoilt crowd that were told they could be anything they wanted. Now we have delusional men who dress as woman as if womanhood is some sort of costume. Not only is it incoherent, but disrespectful towards woman in general.

Too many woman too scared to speak out for fear of a the lefts insane cancel culture regime every time they encounter a hard problem that differs from their ideology. It's not hard to figure out jonesey - if having a vagina & female reproductive sydtem doesn't make you a woman, then neither does wearing make up, high heels & carrying a handbag.

Youve been duped by the left into the simplest, most basic human observation there is. We don't want people who believe such idiocracy anywhere near governing a country if they can't even get the basics right & confuse basic biology. How you feel has no bearing at all on what you actually are, or how you feel people should perceived you. It wasn't that long ago that thoughts like yours were only found in mental institutes. & we wonder why we are closing these institutes up accross the western world. These people with their illogical ideas are being let out into the public, & they know their rhetoric is so disturbing & incorrect that they threaten to cancel anyone who dears dissagree. This is manipulative guilt they share.

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by  the Joneses  |  6th Nov 24, 5:12pm 1730866338

What is your point? That men shouldn't be allowed to wear dresses?

"Will and Harper" is a nice movie if you like Will Farrell. Helps you understand where these people are coming from.

Otherwise feel free to carry on with your obvious hate for a whole subset of people. Now that society has moved on from demonising gay people, the trans people are the next on the list. It seems to be a good trick to get a certain kind of person to vote.

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by  GoWokeGobroke  |  6th Nov 24, 5:55pm 1730868958

@ the joneses  - "What is your point? That men shouldn't be allowed to wear dresses?"

You miss the point. Men & woman a like are free to percieve themselves how they see fit. If that means that a man feels more comfortable parading around in a dress as a costume, despite it being weird & creepy, he is free to do so. What he is not free to do, however, is to demand & expect that society view him they same way that he views himself. That is called coercion.

"Otherwise feel free to carry on with your obvious hate for a whole subset of people."

This is typical leftist socialist manipulative guilttripping. It may work on your woke mates, but it doesnt work on me. You deliberately confuse the difference between "hate speech" & a difference in opinion. You do this of course as a way of excusing yourself from the bad behavior that is being called out. This is called called manipulative guilt. You understand the behavior of men sexualizing children in drag, dry humping furniture on stage, recking a child's innocence is not only sick, perverted & twisted, but mentally unstable as well. Since you cannot defend it, as how could you defend something so perverted, your only option is to try get out of the convo by dismissing me as a person of hate.

Ardern & co have decieved you joneses. You cannot use your virtual signaling of screaming out "hate" as a get out of jail free card. You cannot justify the behavior of sexualising children, of men parading around pretending to be a woman mocking womanhood as a silly costume, because there is no justification for the perversion.

 

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by  Retired-Poppy  |  6th Nov 24, 6:26pm 1730870818

Wingman - really? Do you want to be banned again? 

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by  safeashouses  |  7th Nov 24, 5:54am 1730912076

@poppy why would he be banned - its pretty down the middle kind of argument - Poppy i been telling you for a while - your comments and views are now becoming les potent 

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by  Retired-Poppy  |  7th Nov 24, 10:18am 1730927925

Poppy i been telling you for a while - your comments and views are now becoming les potent 

Thanks, you made my morning however, Buylowsellhigh + Flying high = safeashouses, coming from someone whos already on their 3rd account it would seem it's you that's scratching for some relevance.

Best advice, just be yourself :)

 

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by  GoWokeGobroke  |  6th Nov 24, 4:31pm 1730863907

@ the joneses -"The right want to outlaw abortions outright".

When you realize that the left actively campaign against children's rights, not just on protecting a child's rights on abortion, but sexualizing children, exposing children to sexualized material, telling them they can be born into the wrong body, you know the insanity & the creepiness has gone too far. The lefts own elected VP Walz wants to take children out into the woods & talk to them about sexuality. But we're assured that nothing weird is going on here. The lefts obsession with destroying the innocence of children is not only creepy, but shows exactly why they are likely to lose by a landslide. People have had enough of the pedifilia that runs rife throughout the left. Protecting our children & the future generation means have a more conservative approach & outlook.

As if going after children wasn't bad enough, the left also want to suppress free speech, censor information, & control narratives. They use buzzwords & blackmail to accomplish this. 

After today we will see if the majority wish to see & be a part of more sick peversion, or if they're more interested of freedom & protecting children. But as other commenter's have already pointed out on here, Harris is about as well liked as Ardern was towards her inevitable end of her draconian style governing. So it's much more likely we will see a landslide loss to Harris. Much like NZ, it will be good to get some sanity back again.

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by  the Joneses  |  6th Nov 24, 5:13pm 1730866404

Yeah, I am not going to reply. You have issues.

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by  GoWokeGobroke  |  6th Nov 24, 6:14pm 1730870052

@ the joneses - I have issues?

You have openly advocated for the sexualising and sexual abuse of children through left wing ideology in responce to my comment above, & you refuse to say why you support such perversion, and I'm the one who has issues? Lol 

When I was a child I used to pretend I was a pirate. But at no stage did I ever actually think that I was a pirate. Nor did my parents affirm it, I never recieved pirate reassignment surgery, I never had my hand removed & replaced by a hook, I never wore an eye patch out in public, & I never expected that everyone else around me both addressed me & treated me as a pirate.

Though at the time my dad had told an adult dad joke that I hadn't understood until I was older - "if you want to become a pirate, just become a lawyer". I don't self identify as a pirate now, not only because I grew up & became a real man, not self entitled & absorbed & totally obsessed with demanding people affirm how I choose to affirm myself, but because even back then I knew it was only pretend.

Problem today is these people are still stuck believing pretend in their own delusions. Many of them renters, that if they cared more about their own financial future & stability, instead of dying their hair blue & screaming in peoples faces for reassurance of their self percieption as their primary life objective & purpose, they'd tone down the self perception obsession in favour of self preservation & personal growth. I was at peace with my gender, & have been able to use my time much more wisely to better the life of myself & my family. 

Unfortunately you are decieved joneses. The ironic thing about being decieved, is that the decieved don't recognize that they are decieved, for that is part of the deception. Men cannot be woman despite how they feel. Facts over feelings jonses. We don't need more woke ideologies of insanity, we need more sound logic.

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by  TronMVP  |  6th Nov 24, 10:46am 1730843183

Harris is focused on abortion rights for women. It is the most important issue, ahead of defeating inflation, improving the economy, and world peace.

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by  BlackKrim  |  6th Nov 24, 11:47am 1730846823

I am glad someone said it about stopping wars and the MIC frenzy. How many watched that Fox News monologue (by Harris) and believe that this woman has any ounce of credence. She is as good an example of a front for NGO's as Biden was; most politicans are just puppets.

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by  Zwifter  |  6th Nov 24, 12:09pm 1730848146

Started watching a Trump rally on Aljazeera, it was so bad I had to change channels and then couldn't believe they were still screening the same rubbish 20 minutes later. The guy cannot even put a coherent sentence together then raves how good he is because he doesn't need a teleprompter and starts comparing himself to Churchill instead of Hitler. 

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by  Rampart  |  6th Nov 24, 11:55am 1730847346

The Democratic Party stand for world peace? They aren’t the left of old anymore. The Democratic Party are pro war. 

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by  Te Kooti  |  6th Nov 24, 1:30pm 1730853018

I'm quite perplexed about abortion being the no.1 voting issue for females. I mean, I can see why Harris is pushing it from an electoral strategy BUT the fact of the matter is neither her nor Trump can make any changes at a Federal level. Post Roe v Wade repeal, abortion is no longer a Federal issue and what's more, it wasn't an election issue at the mid-terms which was the appropriate place for it to be an issue.  

It tells me female voters are either not that bright or are simply fixated with terminating their babies. Neither is a great look. Everyone has access to abortion in the States if they need it, they may have to travel but it's there. Maybe, just maybe, they shouldn't be a lifestyle choice? And before the usual suspects pile in, I'm not anti-abortion - just that it should be the last choice and there must be a cut-off. There are many parents who cannot conceive who will raise those babies.

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by  Amokk  |  6th Nov 24, 2:17pm 1730855830

Just that it should be the last choice - According to who?

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by  JimboJones  |  6th Nov 24, 2:35pm 1730856956

Surely you are going to vote for the party that aligns to your views, regardless of whether the other party has no power to act on theirs. 

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by  Te Kooti  |  6th Nov 24, 2:56pm 1730858185

Surely you vote based on the candidates policies and what is bet for the nation? Like a record-busting 7% budget deficit this year?

In terms of female specific issues, surely the party that has explicitly stated that men will no longer be able compete in your sports or be allowed into your bathrooms has some appeal?  

 

 

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by  JimboJones  |  6th Nov 24, 3:09pm 1730858992

Do you think the republicans will reduce the deficit? They don't have a very good track record of that.

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by  Te Kooti  |  6th Nov 24, 3:24pm 1730859887

They will make more of a fist of it than Harris and the Democrats. Bear in mind that the Dems have been in charge 12 of the past 16 years and they fought wars under Bush prior to that. 

The 7% deficit this year is reckless at best and treason at worst. Support whoever you want, I really don't care. Just don't pretend Harris has a clue about the economy.

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by  the Joneses  |  6th Nov 24, 3:38pm 1730860725

Any chance you could link to a good interview where Trump clearly explains his economic ideas?

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by  JimboJones  |  6th Nov 24, 3:44pm 1730861052

I really don't care about the US election. But didn't Trump spend up big last time on tax cuts for the rich, hardly the way to run a surplus. 

The last US president to run a surplus was Bill Clinton. He had budget surpluses for fiscal years 1998–2001, the only such years from 1970 to 2023. Clinton's final four budgets were balanced budgets with surpluses, beginning with the 1997 budget. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_policy_of_the_Bill_Clinton_admin….

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by  GoWokeGobroke  |  6th Nov 24, 6:20pm 1730870458

@ the joneses - "I really don't care about the US election."

For someone who doesn't care about the US election, you certainly take every opportunity to comment on it, voicing quite clearly your opinions on both candidates & what they stand for. 

This is much more likely to be instead a silent admission that the person you hopes to win is unlikely to, & so now you don't care. Exactly the same responce you would've had in Nz when Ardern & Hipkins, likely your preferred party by the sounds, lost the election by a landslide. Suddenly leftists only care if their political ideology & candidate is winning. 

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by  al123  |  6th Nov 24, 3:45pm 1730861140

There's a third option other than the two you outlined. That's that you don't have a very good understanding of US politics, or of the affect on women of limiting abortion access. In both cases, the situation is not as simple as you are making out. The first link gives you some info about the politics side of things, the second about some of the effects of limited abortion access. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/11/01/harris-abortion-access-roe-trump-electi…

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/30/texas-woman-death-abort…

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by  Te Kooti  |  6th Nov 24, 4:06pm 1730862372

It sounds like I have a better understanding than you. The Guardian (please) article relates to a miscarriage which is not prevented under Texas abortion laws. Of course, it's devastating the lady passed away, however people die in hospitals daily through poor care, over-crowding etc etc. 

It's a complex issue that's now decided by at a State level by the residents of that State. 

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by  al123  |  6th Nov 24, 5:00pm 1730865637

OK. If that's your takeaway from the article I linked to, I don't think there is any point discussing it further. 

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by  TronMVP  |  6th Nov 24, 7:07pm 1730873263

No point in discussing it? The doctors aborted the pregnancy, and sent her home. She then continued to bleed and developed a severe infection. No mention of consideration of a prolonged period of observation in hospital to check vital signs etc. and consideration of IV antibiotics. 

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by  solardb  |  6th Nov 24, 4:21pm 1730863281

In the next 4 to 8 years some supreme court justice are likely to retire. Trump will appoint conservative, Harris liberal.

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by  GoWokeGobroke  |  6th Nov 24, 4:52pm 1730865143

@ Tron - Yes, the lefts most important issue is that millions of babies die. That a mother's right to want to kill their unborn baby, matters more than the child's right to be born & have a life. 

We will see if the majority of the country agree that the need for killing babies is more important than inflation, and improving the economy. 

Interesting that the left not only campaign for killing babies, but euthanasia as well. So the left support reducing the population by killing off our own, as well as suppressing free speech, demonizing differences in opinion as hate speech, controlling narratives through online censorship, but according to the left these are the most important issues we must protect. 

So on one side we have a candidate who seeks to destroy freedoms & remove life, whilst the other side seeks to keep freedoms in place & save lives. It's not a hard decision at all. This is the reason why people acknowledge this is likely the most important election of the West, as it determines where we go from here as a nation. Do we want more suppression & control, having already had a taste for it over the last half decade, or do we say no to it. 

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by  M0ralHazard  |  6th Nov 24, 9:00am 1730836845

What is the bet that Trump announces he has won way too early, before enough votes have been counted? 

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by  Whatwillhappen  |  6th Nov 24, 1:14pm 1730852075

No bet

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by  GoWokeGobroke  |  6th Nov 24, 4:54pm 1730865264

@ moralhazard - It would be a safe bet given the polls, & currently counted votes. If it's anything like Nzs last election, he will likely win by a landslide, based on the country not wanting more of what they've already had over the last half decade. We did the same in NZ.

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by  General Comment  |  6th Nov 24, 9:01am 1730836891

I'd say the only way it will be uncontested is if Trump wins. The allegations of vote tampering have been pre-loaded by Trump's campaign, so if Harris wins there will be fireworks. November 5 is Guy Fawkes Night, after all.

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by  agnostium  |  6th Nov 24, 10:37am 1730842664

Trump has already lodged legal challenges across multiple jurisdictions. Musk and Trump have already started complaining about vote rigging. This is the Trump strategy. 

Undermining people's faith in the democratic process is the whole thing. He'll attempt to undermine any and all written and non-written institutional norms to win. If the Democrats do the same they lose, if they don't they are disadvantaged. The only safeguard is the American people's moral compass. Brownlee made Luxon Apologise for similar tactics yesterday. I'm not sure Americans have that same moral compass at the moment.

Trump is a convicted felon and an adjudicated rapist. These are facts. He has to win, the alternative is likely prison (if the rule of law holds). Musk is in a similar position now with his lottery, there is a strong chance he will be adjudicated to have breached election laws. That's why they are trying to undermine the legitimacy of the rule of law. Pretty much every move they make is about undermining the institution of the American Government. It's the same playbook to almost every despot through the ages has used to get to the top. 

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by  averagejoe  |  6th Nov 24, 10:46am 1730843217

Democrats have already sued in many states to contest the election results if they lose. Sadly both sides are doing it. But the methods of voting that are allowed leave it wide open to contest the results.

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by  agnostium  |  6th Nov 24, 11:25am 1730845501

Nope, it's Trump that is doing it as part of their strategy. The Democrat strategy is to maintain that the elections were fair last time and are fair this time.

Where is your evidence that Democrat's have sued to contest the election results if they lose? 

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by  averagejoe  |  6th Nov 24, 11:54am 1730847259

I saw an article a while back. The are alleging that (if they lose) that the results are unfair because voters have been disenfranchised as a result of having to either sign, or provide ID when voting (which many states have now implemented). They have apparently filed 60 lawsuits on this topic. Seems reasonable to me that people should have to provide ID or proof that they are actually eligible. Seems to me a no brainer, particular in light of the allegations of people that should not be voting, voting in elections, like the Chinese national a few days ago that registered and voted, and then asked for it to be cancelled, since he was cheating...

Here is the link...more than 60 lawsuits filed by democrats already in preparation to challenge the election based on the topics outlined above.

https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2024/10/10/trumps_toug…

 

 

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by  agnostium  |  6th Nov 24, 12:55pm 1730850911

Different issues.

The Democrats are filing voter suppression appeals, these are longstanding complaints against voting rules that disadvantage certain groups. Interestingly, often this is black communities so if Trump looks like they will be relying on black votes I wonder whether the Democrats will drop them. 

The Republican suits are claiming voter fraud. That the votes are fraudulent.

Quite different. The link you have is from a fairly reliable source, right leaning but not altogether bad. Here is the Reuters article, Reuters is considered centre. 

https://www.reuters.com/legal/republicans-prepare-contest-election-demo…

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trumps-fraud-claims-revive-fears-he-ma…

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/wrong-claims-by-musk-us-election-got-2…

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by  GoWokeGobroke  |  6th Nov 24, 5:01pm 1730865669

@ agnostium  - "The Democrat strategy is to maintain that the elections were fair last time and are fair this time."

You actually believe this crap?

Good. So if the Dems lose, even by a landslide, you, along with the rest of the Dems can "maintain that the elections were fair" right? Because I'm sure you know it goes both ways lol

I'm guessing you votes Labour last year as well, as you also believed they did great for our country over the last 6 years? And that you didn't see a potential National win at all, despite the writing on the wall that Labours failings pretty much garsnteed an election hand over to National, they didn't even need to do a thing. Same thing likely in this US election here. Though what you ask from your opponents is unlikely the attitude you will show if "your side" loses. 

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by  USKiwi  |  6th Nov 24, 8:33am 1730835224

It's all about the economy, the economy, the economy (and a sprinkle of border security). On that basis, I think Trump wins. 

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by  M0ralHazard  |  6th Nov 24, 9:02am 1730836974

Which is interesting, because a lot of objective measures have the US economy doing well at the moment, or at least a lot better than other advanced economies. Why is it that people think that it isn't great? 

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by  Here.for.the.c…  |  6th Nov 24, 9:07am 1730837278

I would suggest the massive inequality has a lot to do with it. If you put Bill Gates and me in a room the average person is a billionaire but I'm no better off.

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by  Squishy  |  6th Nov 24, 3:06pm 1730858765

Agreed, a booming stock market needs to flow through to workers pockets for them to interpret the economy as doing well.

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by  USKiwi  |  6th Nov 24, 9:13am 1730837604

Jobs and inflation. 4% unemployment rate in an economy the size of the US is a lot of people out of work in absolute numbers. While inflation is coming down, people have been stung hard by this and have long term memories when it relates to their pockets. 

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by  agnostium  |  6th Nov 24, 10:40am 1730842818

It's all about the economy, the economy, the economy

I don't think this election is actually about the economy this time. I think it is about social media and a breakdown in people's faith in objective sources of truth more than anything else.

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by  JimboJones  |  6th Nov 24, 1:29pm 1730852971

For sure. People will read any little snippet of “info” online and take it as fact regardless of actual statistics and facts. Even if only 5% do that it’s enough to change the outcome. 

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by  agnostium  |  6th Nov 24, 5:04pm 1730865870

There are Christian fundamentalists that are  voting for Trump because he's religious ...this is not a conclusion you arrive at after assessing the facts. 

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by  GoWokeGobroke  |  6th Nov 24, 8:01pm 1730876494

@ agnostium  - You don't have to be Christian to be against suppression of speech, censoring information, protecting children from sexual preditors, freedom of rights.

You just have to have basic common sense & logic. Something that has been replaced in recent years with woke incoherent indoctrination & government propoganda. Sounds as though you've fallen for it hook line & sinker. 

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by  murray86  |  6th Nov 24, 8:33am 1730835235

The only thing that is certain at this point is that the Americans will get exactly who they deserve, and all the consequences will be what they voted for whether they like it or not.

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by  JimboJones  |  6th Nov 24, 2:37pm 1730857064

86% of states have virtually no say...

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by  dollar_bill  |  6th Nov 24, 8:47am 1730836060

I find the electoral college malarkey, which basically sidelines every vote outside a few counties in a few states, ridiculous. Where is the one person, one vote democracy in that?



May the best woman win.

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by  averagejoe  |  6th Nov 24, 8:59am 1730836773

The electoral college is there deliberately to prevent states from having an unfair say in election outcomes (as each state is effectively self governing within the US system) with the federal government over the top. Generally democrats lose the popular vote nationwide if the California vote is removed (its skews heavily to democrats in that state). So electoral college limits the amount of pull that that state has (along with large republican states like Texas) in the overall result.

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by  Here.for.the.c…  |  6th Nov 24, 9:04am 1730837058

California also has the highest population of the states so you are removing around 11% by discounting Californians.

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by  averagejoe  |  6th Nov 24, 9:08am 1730837307

That’s the system. That’s why it’s like that. Yes, unusual, but that is what they decided way back when, if I remember rightly as one of the conditions of forming the republic to begin with.

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by  the Joneses  |  6th Nov 24, 1:00pm 1730851242

Apparently they got it instituted because the southern states thought that their states vote should count for more overall as they had slaves who couldn't vote so didn't count in elections. They agreed that slaves being in a state would count for 3/5'ths of a free person in terms of how many votes the state got for choosing the president.

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by  murray86  |  6th Nov 24, 9:26am 1730838409

Another question the; I think it was in the election that Trump won a piece of information came out that suggested that the Electoral Colleges are not bound by how the voters in their area voted. Is that true? How is that monitored?

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by  solardb  |  6th Nov 24, 9:47am 1730839624

Yes , its true , and vice president has last say.

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by  Craigeburn  |  6th Nov 24, 10:51am 1730843466

Completely wrong! They even clarified the law after the Pence debacle to the effect that the VPs role is merely to count (certify) the votes.

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by  solardb  |  6th Nov 24, 11:37am 1730846269

Yes , i am wrong on the vice president , sorry. 

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by  averagejoe  |  6th Nov 24, 9:48am 1730839702

States apparently have the choice to take a winner takes all approach to how the electors assign their electoral college votes. California, as an example has 54 votes, that they can contribute to a candidate (that must obtain 270 to win). I am guessing that the vote there will be 60% Harris, 40% Trump, but regardless, Harris will receive the 54 votes towards the 270, and trump will get zero even though he gets 40% of the vote. Some states assign them proportionately, but that is uncommon, and I do not think they can just decide on a whim (that would have be decided and confirmed by their state government).

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by  murray86  |  6th Nov 24, 10:24am 1730841878

I'm flabbergasted! The opportunity for abuse has got to be huge! The entire principle underlying a democracy of one man/woman, one vote is undermined here by this extra layer. 

Why do they tolerate it?

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by  averagejoe  |  6th Nov 24, 10:31am 1730842311

That's why it comes down to the swing states. Trump hardly campaigns in California (no chance of getting the 54 votes). Harris never campaigns in Texas (no chance of her getting the 40 or so votes from there). They visit, but nothing serious happens there. So most states are RED or BLUE. There is no in between so the election is decided in swing states. There are exceptions, such as when Reagan won 49 states to Carters 3, but that does not happen a lot. That's why it is a race to 270. It is not about winning the popular vote (that is just a bonus).

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by  agnostium  |  6th Nov 24, 10:44am 1730843059

How is that different from the UK system where whoever wins the seat get's the full seat? The UK parliament does not reflect the spread of votes across the nation proportionally.  The NZ system is a partial acknowledgement that one person one vote should inform the National government. 

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by  TronMVP  |  6th Nov 24, 8:41pm 1730878906

UK system is also screwed. Labour had a landslide victory with only 36% of the vote.

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by  Craigeburn  |  6th Nov 24, 10:53am 1730843623

Because they have a Federal system! Wait till you discover that the Senate is two senators per state and thus California gets the same as Kentucky despite squillions more people!

 

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by  murray86  |  6th Nov 24, 11:02am 1730844132

So proportionality is undermined several ways? Hardly a surprise the system is so screwed then. Makes you wonder how they've avoided more meltdowns than they have (US Civil War).

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by  JimboJones  |  6th Nov 24, 2:59pm 1730858365

Its just a really old system that probably made some sense at the time. But it could never change. 

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by  averagejoe  |  6th Nov 24, 11:40am 1730846455

That is a result of there being next to no people living in each state when they formed a republic. At the time California probably had hardly anyone living there. So, the would have decided two senators per state as a sensible solution and everyone agreed. All states would have been sparsely populated.

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by  kiwikidsnz  |  6th Nov 24, 3:13pm 1730859233

"...next to no people living in each state when they formed a republic. "

They weren't counting American Indians of course 

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by  agnostium  |  6th Nov 24, 5:16pm 1730866568

But they did count slaves but only as 3/5 of a person. 

No idea if women were counted. 

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by  mfd  |  6th Nov 24, 5:13pm 1730866393

I think it was throwing a bone to the smaller states - give them some incentive to join the US as even if you barely scrape together a congressman to represent you, there's a couple of senators to give you some influence.

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by  RookieInvestor  |  6th Nov 24, 8:54am 1730836451

what we do know is there will be an election, one will win and one will not.

And the one who wins will be the winner... and the winner will not be the one who didn't win.

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by  Rampart  |  6th Nov 24, 8:57am 1730836673

I think this was wittier in your head 

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by  RookieInvestor  |  6th Nov 24, 9:46am 1730839616

either way it is ridiculous.

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by  Grattaway  |  6th Nov 24, 1:18pm 1730852284

Actually in the US of A it can be an electoral college draw - 

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by  Here.for.the.c…  |  6th Nov 24, 8:43pm 1730879008

My understanding of the polls is that they have been herding their results to be a tossup with the Selzer poll being more reflective of the raw data than the majority of others.

So I predict Harris will win (probably via Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin) with Dems taking back the house and losing the senate.

Can't see Puerto Ricans putting up with the island of garbage joke.

 

Gee one out of three is not great 

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by  solardb  |  6th Nov 24, 9:05am 1730837158

Yes , maybe they should publish the raw data, but that would be egg on their face.

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by  agnostium  |  6th Nov 24, 10:48am 1730843309

Not sure the Puerto Rican joke is going to be that much of an issue. The American roast thing is plain weird, the whole point seems to be to say something highly offensive or inappropriate about the object of the roast and see how they react, it's a test of the person getting roasted's response more than anything and it is normally only people who are loved who are roasted. Plus it wasn't Trump saying it, it was just some comedian who is known for roasts.

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by  Craigeburn  |  6th Nov 24, 10:57am 1730843824

You're understanding is mere wishful thinking! If you think the Selzer poll is reflective and the rest are outliers rush onto to a betting site as you'll get $6 for a Dem win in that state!

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by  Here.for.the.c…  |  6th Nov 24, 11:52am 1730847164

Is there a betting site that takes real money not just crypto bro receipts?

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by  21Trillion  |  6th Nov 24, 2:29pm 1730856591

"real money", you mean hours to move money, 2.9% card fee money? That money? LOL 



Might be time you check out how crypto works and how it's no longer 2017.



I just made a Polymarket account in under 15 seconds, ready to bet. No name, no email, no bs. 

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by  righty123  |  6th Nov 24, 9:03am 1730836994

People can vote for whoever they want.

BUT the thing that I really can't understand is that people voting Harris say they are voting for "change". Like what sort of nonsense is that? Literally a month ago on the view she said "There is not a single thing" she would change about the Biden administration. 

So, she is the candidate of "change" from the same party and administration. Whilst Trump who is the actual  opposition is not?? 

The irony is driving me nuts...

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by  Nzdan  |  6th Nov 24, 9:24am 1730838244

I saw some clip of her claiming staple food prices (ground beef etc) were up 50% since Covid and she was campaigning on change.  The same 3 years that she was Vice President under Biden.  

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by  ChrisOfNoFame  |  6th Nov 24, 3:05pm 1730858711

There's a good reason why us billionaires have been much more visible in this election.

The Harris ticket's 'not completely un-specified tax policy' is to tax the the rich heavily, while reducing debt a bit, but mainly dropping taxes on the bottom 70%. Nothing like it since FDR 80+ years ago.

Now that a big, big change.  

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by  JimboJones  |  6th Nov 24, 3:11pm 1730859075

You are a billionaire Chris?

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by  Let me be Frank  |  6th Nov 24, 9:08am 1730837339

Boring as to note, but turnout will be key....higher than typical turnout and Harris should win.

 

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by  cjmain  |  6th Nov 24, 9:28am 1730838513

I wouldn't put much stock on the crypto betting market as a predictor, I would say Republicans are far more likely to bet and be into crypto as compared to Democrats 

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by  Zachary Smith  |  6th Nov 24, 9:58am 1730840310

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;

For he to-day that votes for Trump

Shall be my brother; be he ne’er so vile,

This day shall gentle his condition:

And gentlemen in England now a-bed

Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,

And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks

That voted not for Trump this election day.

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by  TronMVP  |  6th Nov 24, 8:47pm 1730879271

I love a bit of Shakespeare 

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by  Zwifter  |  6th Nov 24, 10:09am 1730840962

Landslide for Kamala, she will take all seven swing states.

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by  Rampart  |  6th Nov 24, 6:41pm 1730871678

😂

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by  GJCA  |  6th Nov 24, 7:36pm 1730874968

Landslide eh?! 

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by  Yvil  |  6th Nov 24, 7:42pm 1730875369

That prediction went really wrong Zwifter.

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by  Yvil  |  6th Nov 24, 10:20am 1730841649

Either winner would be historic. Harris would be the first woman president, while Trump would be the first convicted felon

Enough said!

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by  Zwifter  |  6th Nov 24, 10:32am 1730842337

Kamala is a young, black female or at least by todays standards that's what she identifies as so she will pull more young, black female votes. Trump on the other hand is an old stale white male and a convicted felon and felons cannot vote. Its all coming down to identity politics and self inflicted issues that should never even be election issues and really they are at the bottom of the barrel in terms of a true democracy. Personally I think they are screwed either way, its more the blowback effect in other countries that I'm worried about.

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by  Rampart  |  6th Nov 24, 12:01pm 1730847689

60 isn’t young. Hate to break it to you. 

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by  Foxglove.  |  6th Nov 24, 10:34am 1730842488

Therein lies a very serious situation for Trump. If he wins he either wipes the prosecution slate clean or defers cases he can’t, for at least another four years. If he loses though, the DOJ & state prosecutors will be at his throat and the GOP reps will not help much, particularly if they don’t carry either of the houses. 

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by  Grattaway  |  6th Nov 24, 1:21pm 1730852488

So the prosecution should sit on their indictments for 4 years if Trump wins then prosecute when he cannot interfere

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by  Qupi  |  6th Nov 24, 10:50am 1730843410

The only thing we know for sure is that the president will not be white.

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by  agnostium  |  6th Nov 24, 10:51am 1730843510

😂

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by  Craigeburn  |  6th Nov 24, 10:59am 1730843978

:) :) :)

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by  boombust00  |  6th Nov 24, 11:31am 1730845905

Trump LAND SLIDE

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by  bloodymigrant  |  6th Nov 24, 12:08pm 1730848088

Trump!

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by  2Noodles  |  6th Nov 24, 12:20pm 1730848852

The Iowa poll showing Harris ahead there is the answer.  Very respected pollster. I now think Harris will win much more easily then the so called "close" race.  I pick she will win 5 of the 7 battle ground states at least.

 

 

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by  Rampart  |  6th Nov 24, 8:02pm 1730876579

Well this aged well 😅

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by  TronMVP  |  6th Nov 24, 11:16pm 1730888201

Hilarious 😂 

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by  nigelh  |  6th Nov 24, 12:43pm 1730850236

All I can say if Tromp and Harris are the best candidates for President then I'd hate to see the worst.

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by  the Joneses  |  6th Nov 24, 1:07pm 1730851657

What is wrong with Harris exactly? She seems to be a very mainstream, status quo Democratic politician to me. She did a pretty good campaign overall, I can't remember any bad mis-steps.

Biden was obviously not up for the job, being too old.

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by  RookieInvestor  |  6th Nov 24, 1:15pm 1730852106

she never worked at Mcdonalds

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by  kiwikidsnz  |  6th Nov 24, 3:21pm 1730859677
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0
by  the Joneses  |  6th Nov 24, 3:45pm 1730861153

Are you joking, or not?

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by  profile  |  6th Nov 24, 2:36pm 1730856971

Putting Tulsa Gabbard, former Democrat candidate, on a no fly list when she criticised her wasn't cool.

@TulsiGabbard

Kamala says she believes in freedom, but I was put on a secret terror watch list after I publicly criticized her. No one will be safe from political retaliation under a Harris administration. I put my life on the line for this country. Now the government calls me a terror threat.

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by  the Joneses  |  6th Nov 24, 3:40pm 1730860838

That 'fact' cannot be proven or disproven as it is a claim about a secret list. Tulsa Gabbard has now joined the Republican party.

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by  GoWokeGobroke  |  6th Nov 24, 5:19pm 1730866742

@ the joneses  - it is a well known fact that censorship of information, & suppressing of speech ramped up significantly during both the Biden administration, to which Kalama was VP for, & the Ardern administration. After two terms our country finally caught on to what was going on, & we voted it out. The only difference here is that Ardern at least knew the gig was already up, so fled before the embarrassing election results. 

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by  J.C.  |  6th Nov 24, 1:23pm 1730852639

Jacinda Ardern is in Detroit wearing a 'Kind' t-shirt spreading her vibes on behalf of Aotearoa 

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by  JimboJones  |  6th Nov 24, 2:40pm 1730857222

They still let you stalk her?

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by  J.C.  |  6th Nov 24, 3:14pm 1730859273

I'm not in Detroit and why would I stalk her? That's a delusional idea. Anyway, aren't flying the flag and kindness what we represent? Or is she there to represent her employer?

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by  the Joneses  |  6th Nov 24, 3:45pm 1730861104

Lol, she is stuck in your social media algorithm. They know how much you enjoy getting worked up over her. Nobody else cares what she is doing now.

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by  J.C.  |  6th Nov 24, 4:01pm 1730862107

. They know how much you enjoy getting worked up over her.

Nothing emotional about what I wrote. Anyway, what's wrong with Jacinda being there spreading the kindness message? 

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by  Rampart  |  6th Nov 24, 8:41pm 1730878887

Please,

if I hear “be kind” one more time.. I’ll choose to self censor in this instance. She was far from kind.

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by  Nzdan  |  6th Nov 24, 6:59pm 1730872787

At least he's stopped referring to her as "Dame Jacinda Kate Laurell Ardern GNZM".  Was funny the first couple of times, but the 94 times after that it started to become a bit creepy.  

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by  JimboJones  |  6th Nov 24, 2:47pm 1730857669

Here are my views on this election:

a) Harris is quite obviously the better option

b) But I don't really care who wins; if Trump wins its always a laugh, like electing the McGillicuddy Serious Party 

c) I think Trump will win. I always reckon you can add a couple of % to the right wing polls as the left normally don't vote as much. 

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by  sharetrader  |  6th Nov 24, 4:25pm 1730863521

he is great for all the comedians around the USA and late night talk show hosts, he just makes shite up "they eat all the cats and dogs"  and as he gets older the filter is getting turned off so who knows what he will come up with next

 

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by  RookieInvestor  |  6th Nov 24, 3:35pm 1730860552

If Trump gets Virginia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin or Michigan I thinks he's in.

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by  mark_a  |  6th Nov 24, 3:25pm 1730859949

NYT needle has him getting to 287 as at 3.25 NZT.

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by  kiwichas  |  6th Nov 24, 3:51pm 1730861517

Trumpocalypse  imminent

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by  mark_a  |  6th Nov 24, 4:10pm 1730862600

He's heading to 293 with a 77% chance of winning. I'm off to bed!!!! :-)

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by  youngdumbandfullofit  |  6th Nov 24, 4:16pm 1730862961

A shame for our exports. But least if there's a clear winner it should prevent large outrest...

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by  FCM  |  6th Nov 24, 4:19pm 1730863188

Harris should of offered free Big macs...Trump back to the big office, going to be an interesting four years.

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by  sharetrader  |  6th Nov 24, 4:21pm 1730863279

dow futures and bitcoin climbing on a trump win, will be interesting to see how much it swings the other way if harris wins 

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by  FCM  |  6th Nov 24, 4:23pm 1730863416

Like watching the movie idiocracy2 play out.

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by  The Man3  |  6th Nov 24, 4:24pm 1730863489

Democrats have done a shockingly poor job over the past 4 years.

Those People voting for Harris just because she was a woman or coloured shouldnt be allowed to vote.

She didn’t campaign on policy at all always trying to put Trump down rather than point out what she would do!

watched a lot of the news when overseas a couple of months ago on SKY and CNN.

CNN are Democrats and full of lies and conspiracies and Sky were more on Trumps side and telling the truths.

Most of Harris’s policies were absolutely stupid, including taxing unrealised capital gain!!!!!!

The wars would continue under Harris and the Democrats, watch the change that comes under the Republicans

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by  mark_a  |  6th Nov 24, 4:31pm 1730863902

Iran might be the exception - bet they will pull their head in now.......

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by  Averageman  |  6th Nov 24, 4:34pm 1730864071

I agree with your first sentence, your second one is just anti democratic. If people choose to vote on that basis alone that is up to them. Take a chill pill.

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by  pigeonbox  |  6th Nov 24, 5:03pm 1730865826

I agree - character attacks, as valid as they were, were shockingly tin earred and almost certainly backfired. Even the great oracle of the democrats, Obama, couldn't resist.

I feel the catastrophe we're seeing unfold today can be traced back principally to the shady decision to run Clinton instead of Sanders in 2016. He'd have just finished his second term, Trumpism would be dead, and we'd be watching a boring, civilized election between two reasonable candidates. 

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by  the Joneses  |  6th Nov 24, 5:22pm 1730866955

You think people voted for Trump because he didn't attack peoples character like Harris did? Or are you saying that people who would have voted Harris stayed home and didn't vote because she pointed out Trump's flaws? The candidates were held to wildly different standards by the media. Can you imagine what would have happened if Harris pretended to deep throat a microphone stand?

I would have liked to see Sanders run for president, but I don't believe it is certain how things would have turned out in that instance.

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by  pigeonbox  |  6th Nov 24, 6:18pm 1730870321

No, I think people voted for Trump for essentially one of three reasons:

-They're a racist/bigoted/pos, and feel emboldened by Trump's depravity.

-The greedy and unscrupulous, who probably voted against their conscience for the promised tax cuts.

-But mostly: working class people, who are not wealthy and sorted, and who have seen their earning power corrode drastically since the 90s, and are highly distrustful of millionaire career politicians, starting with Bill Clinton, who sold them out to China and Mexico. As I think Michael Moore said, Trump is their hand grenade into Washington.

So, seeing the establishment politicians attack Trump for his character flaws came across as elitist and smug, only fanning the flames of their resentment. I suspect it tipped the balance for many swing voters, or motivated the lazy Trumpers to actually go vote.

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by  sharetrader  |  6th Nov 24, 6:21pm 1730870502

or they are worried about their dogs and cats getting eaten

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by  J.C.  |  6th Nov 24, 6:49pm 1730872189

-They're a racist/bigoted/pos, and feel emboldened by Trump's depravity.

-The greedy and unscrupulous, who probably voted against their conscience for the promised tax cuts.

OK. Are you saying that Trump supporters of non-white ethnicity are racists and bigots? That could be true. We typically associate racism and bigotry with white people. 

And people who 'want to pay more tax' are virtuous. Right?  

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by  pigeonbox  |  6th Nov 24, 6:56pm 1730872574

No, I'm not saying that.

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by  J.C.  |  6th Nov 24, 7:09pm 1730873361

No, I'm not saying that.

But you stated you think that people who voted for Trump are racists and bigots. 

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by  pigeonbox  |  6th Nov 24, 7:15pm 1730873714

Reading comprehension not your strength?

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by  J.C.  |  6th Nov 24, 7:45pm 1730875506

So what does it mean? 

Michigan Latinos breaking 60-35 for Trump. What would be the reason? Don't say racism or bigotry. 

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by  al123  |  6th Nov 24, 7:51pm 1730875871

Did you read the first sentence of the post that seems to be confusing you? I did. 

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by  J.C.  |  6th Nov 24, 7:54pm 1730876049

No, I think people voted for Trump for essentially one of three reasons:

What is there not to understand or be confused by? 

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by  al123  |  6th Nov 24, 8:07pm 1730876861

I don't know! You seemed to be having trouble - it seemed pretty straightforward to me.

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by  pigeonbox  |  6th Nov 24, 7:53pm 1730876025

Then they potentially belong to the second or third group of people I identified?

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by  J.C.  |  6th Nov 24, 7:55pm 1730876123

Fair enough. Do you think there's a possibility they voted for Trump for any other reason? 

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by  pigeonbox  |  6th Nov 24, 9:01pm 1730880084

Of course

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by  Nzdan  |  6th Nov 24, 7:04pm 1730873069

Pigeon might be a sucker for the whole "Trump is a racist, misogynistic prick" narrative peddled by simple folk who conflate tackling illegal immigration as racist policy. 

Be kind, if you catch someone breaking into your house don't ask them to leave or call the police, cook them a meal and help them load your belongings into their vehicle.  

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by  pigeonbox  |  6th Nov 24, 7:37pm 1730875040

He *is* a racist misogynistic prick. I said that one of three groups vote for him for that reason. The other two groups are willing to turn a blind eye to that side of him, for other reasons.

I mean, are you seriously suggesting Mr "grab em by the pussy", the guy who fornicates with a pornstar while his wife is in labor, who calls white supremacists "very fine people", who takes out a full page newspaper ad calling for the death penalty for four innocent black youths, who refers to immigrants as "poisoning the blood of our country" (I could go on for a very long time) is actually a decent human being?

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by  al123  |  6th Nov 24, 7:47pm 1730875670

The insane thing is that despite all of those facts, there are people who keep insisting that if you think Trump is a racist misogynistic prick, you must have been "brainwashed" by the "MSM" rather than that you just listened to some of the things Trump has said out loud in public. 

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by  Rampart  |  6th Nov 24, 8:45pm 1730879159

Here’s my cup to collect your leftist tears 

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by  pigeonbox  |  6th Nov 24, 9:05pm 1730880337

No tears from me, I put $1000 on his win through picklebet a couple of weeks ago.

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by  Yvil  |  6th Nov 24, 8:19pm 1730877542

"We typically associate racism and bigotry with white people."

I certainly don't, racism is simply based upon a race, any race.  I think NZ is a prime example of racism towards the white people from the indigenous population.

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by  HouseMouse  |  6th Nov 24, 10:09pm 1730884150

Wow, that’s a big claim. It sounds like you think all, or at least most, Maori are racist. I sincerely hope you don’t think that. Because thinking that is almost certainly racist.

I feel that you might have had some seriously negative experiences with Maori people. Maybe that’s been bad luck. Or perhaps you might have brought that on yourself with how you engaged with them. It’s like how many people say people in Paris are rude. I never really found that, apart from the odd encounter, maybe luck but I think also because I didn’t go in with that mindset when I have visited Paris.

Because in my 53 years of life, mostly in this country, I have barely had a bad experience with a Maori person. I have seen and heard of lots of bad stuff, but never been the subject of abuse or hatred. By comparison, I have had a lot of hateful experiences with pakeha. I have certainly NEVER felt any racism directed at me from Maori. Unlike my wife, who has experienced some nasty episodes of racism, from Pakeha.

Whether you like it or not, you migrated to a country that is bound by a Treaty, and confers rights to Maori. Perhaps you should have migrated to Australia, where such a treaty doesn’t exist, and where indigenous people have been even more downtrodden than here.

 

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by  Zachary Smith  |  7th Nov 24, 6:52am 1730915578

Racism seems too much of a blunt term to me. White people still retain a level of cultural cachet in NZ and the other Anglosphere countries. There appears to be more actual expressed racial animosity between all the other ethnic groups. A white person is safer on a bus than any other group although it's hard to quantify.

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by  JimboJones  |  6th Nov 24, 7:07pm 1730873261

But any of this stuff actually true, or just a sound bite? “who have seen their earning power corrode drastically since the 90s” - median household real income in the US has gone up about 30% since the 90’s: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N

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by  pigeonbox  |  6th Nov 24, 7:50pm 1730875842

According to Pew Research Centre, real terms average hourly earnings peaked more than 45 years ago, and any wage gains have mostly flowed to higher income workers:

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/

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by  paashaas  |  6th Nov 24, 7:36pm 1730875002

You left out one key reason to vote for Trump - to vote out woke and corrupt Democrats , represented by a clueless diversity hire. Seems good enough to me.

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by  pigeonbox  |  6th Nov 24, 7:40pm 1730875228

The corruption belongs to my third point.

Dislike of "wokeism", you might be right.

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by  nktokyo  |  6th Nov 24, 5:00pm 1730865608

I find it morbidly fascinating that women will vote for Trump. 

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by  youngdumbandfullofit  |  6th Nov 24, 7:43pm 1730875401

No different to women staying Catholic. There's bigger hypocrisies out there.

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by  HouseMouse  |  6th Nov 24, 10:11pm 1730884277

Please elaborate

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by  Rampart  |  6th Nov 24, 9:23pm 1730881400

Strong borders. Women like to feel safe 

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by  dollar_bill  |  6th Nov 24, 5:01pm 1730865695

Looking like it's going back to Trump.



God bless America

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by  ShoreThing  |  6th Nov 24, 5:14pm 1730866473

A lot of long faces at Harris' election night party lmao

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxTVnAiSOU4

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by  Blackdog  |  6th Nov 24, 5:28pm 1730867282

The fed audit will be interesting

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by  The Man3  |  6th Nov 24, 5:30pm 1730867459

The American economy was stuffed by the Democrats and Harris is on about women’s rights to their body?

Harris in for 4 years would make the country self explode.

Love or hate Trump , he has some ability to run business, Harris wouldnt have a clue on anything.

 

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by  mark_a  |  6th Nov 24, 5:39pm 1730867967

Love to be a fly on the wall of the Dems post mortem - the Bidens, KH, Obamas and Nancy P.

Now that should be live streamed!!!

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by  sharetrader  |  6th Nov 24, 6:00pm 1730869227

really can you declare chapter 11 for a country?

Trump’s companies have filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, which means a company can remain in business while wiping away many of its debts. The bankruptcy court ultimately approves a corporate budget and a plan to repay remaining debts; often shareholders lose much of their equity.

Trump’s Taj Mahal opened in April 1990 in Atlantic City, but six months later, “defaulted on interest payments to bondholders as his finances went into a tailspin,” The Washington Post’s Robert O’Harrow found. In July 1991, Trump’s Taj Mahal filed for bankruptcy. He could not keep up with debts on two other Atlantic City casinos, and those two properties declared bankruptcy in 1992. A fourth property, the Plaza Hotel in New York, declared bankruptcy in 1992 after amassing debt.

PolitiFact uncovered two more bankruptcies filed after 1992, totaling six. Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts filed for bankruptcy again in 2004, after accruing about $1.8 billion in debt. Trump Entertainment Resorts also declared bankruptcy in 2009, after being hit hard during the 2008 recession.

Why the discrepancy? Perhaps this will give us an idea: Trump told Washington Post reporters that he counted the first three bankruptcies as just one.

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by  Zachary Smith  |  6th Nov 24, 6:00pm 1730869214

Being a Trump supporter, a MAGA supporter, seems a lot more mainstream this time around. I remember back in 2016 when it seemed like I was his only supporter here yet now it's nothing out of the ordinary. 

 

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by  JimboJones  |  6th Nov 24, 6:59pm 1730872760

Yes the extremists are becoming normal now. Surely even you can admit that can’t end well?  

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by  Zachary Smith  |  6th Nov 24, 7:17pm 1730873865

I see a Trump victory as the people wresting control from the real extremists. For example, open borders, is an extreme position.

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by  JimboJones  |  6th Nov 24, 7:28pm 1730874482

I guess extreme socialists wouldn’t consider very high taxes extremist either, they would say look how well it works in Scandinavia. 

It definitely feels to me that the gap between the central parties in the US and many other countries is growing, and that sounds extremist.

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by  Zachary Smith  |  6th Nov 24, 8:12pm 1730877154

Don't people complain that the two main parties found in many democracies are so similar to each other as to be almost indistinguishable?

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by  JimboJones  |  6th Nov 24, 7:53pm 1730875981

Those are the lucky countries IMO. The middle is well agreed upon and consistent, instead of wild swings left and right every few years. 

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by  HouseMouse  |  6th Nov 24, 10:14pm 1730884467

In some respects - especially social rights - they are very different. On many issues- economic, foreign affairs - there’s little difference 

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by  Rampart  |  6th Nov 24, 9:24pm 1730881477

See how the left try and lead you to self identify as an extremist. They’re slippery like that. 

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by  sharetrader  |  6th Nov 24, 6:04pm 1730869490

elon musk has called it already   he will now be able to wipe a lot of regulation that effects spacex and tesla, i expect both share prices to have good gains tonight 

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by  dollar_bill  |  6th Nov 24, 6:35pm 1730871308

he'll be able to protect Tesla from BYD et al too.



A perfect opportunity for the US to do a 180 and move back to a mercantilist economy and rebasing the dollar away from being the worlds reserve FIAT currency backed by treasury bonds, finacialization and debt, to an asset backed dollar held up by piles of resources, industrialism, protectionism and a strong military. Trump wouldn't have a clue but some of the people pulling his strings certainly do.



https://www.thegreatsimplification.com/episode/reality-roundtable-12

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by  averagejoe  |  6th Nov 24, 11:11pm 1730887904

Trump wins. President, senate, congress. Popular vote, clean sweep. Landslide. As I suspected. Good bye gender and progressive politics. Good riddance. Next president will be JD Vance.

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by  Pragmatist  |  7th Nov 24, 7:18am 1730917092

How many elections before they stop calling the man in charge President and start calling him Ayatollah?

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by  tis i  |  6th Nov 24, 6:14pm 1730870067

Fading empire. What a sad state of affairs. 

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by  Zachary Smith  |  6th Nov 24, 6:23pm 1730870612

Nonsense. I've been hearing this sort of thing for half a century. The West is head and shoulders above all others when it comes to human rights and freedom.

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by  profile  |  6th Nov 24, 7:19pm 1730873989

*unless there is "pandemic" that has a median age of death of 84 years. That's when you discover your hard won human rights are worthless.

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by  Zachary Smith  |  6th Nov 24, 7:28pm 1730874530

A very peculiar event that has, hopefully, taught us what not to do next time.

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by  profile  |  6th Nov 24, 7:40pm 1730875250

Let's hope so!

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by  IT GUY  |  6th Nov 24, 6:15pm 1730870142

Orange man doing well

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by  Don m  |  6th Nov 24, 7:51pm 1730875888

I think its all over .Apparently fox just called Wisconsin so trump has the 270.

Looks like he will get over 300.Will likely win the popular vote too.

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by  Rhumline  |  6th Nov 24, 7:52pm 1730875954

As Forrest Gump once said "...stupid is what stupid does."

 

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by  Don m  |  6th Nov 24, 7:59pm 1730876387

Stupid alright.

They parachute a diversity hire that no one voted for in for the nomination and expect her to take down the Don.../ Stupid

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by  tis i  |  6th Nov 24, 8:01pm 1730876502

You gotta choose between stupid and stupid. Whatta ya gonna do?

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by  SmoKey  |  6th Nov 24, 7:56pm 1730876214

America to Trump : You are hired, again.

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by  solardb  |  6th Nov 24, 8:00pm 1730876400

Senate called for Republicans.  Here comes 3 degrees plus global warming. Feel for the young.

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by  Matt_B  |  6th Nov 24, 8:05pm 1730876759

Cool story 

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by  The Man3  |  6th Nov 24, 8:03pm 1730876592

Great result Trump getting back in!

There is very little doubt that he was robbed 4 years ago by election fraud, but then so many will disagree.

The Democrats have put up two candidates  at the last two elections that had very limited ability and very easily controlled.

NZ were led last time by a very week inefficient government of socialists and we know what damage they have caused.

countries being led by left leaning governments around  the world are all mostly in trouble!

What we need is people taking more personal responsibility as we should not  be relying on others to be covering our lifestyle!

 

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by  Yvil  |  6th Nov 24, 8:29pm 1730878187

"There is very little doubt that he was robbed 4 years ago by election fraud"

That's a groundless claim TM3, stop making statements from rumours.

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by  The Man3  |  6th Nov 24, 10:09pm 1730884154

Certainly not groundless at all.

When I was on a tour several weeks ago, there was a lady who was involved with the election in her city!

She disclosed that yes she saw a fair bit of skullduggery!

The election turned on counting during the night, yes it was crooked, this shows it now,

Harris wouldve been absolutely nil, and wouldve put the world into a crisis. 

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by  mfd  |  6th Nov 24, 8:46pm 1730879186

It really harms any credibility that you are suspicious of election fraud 4 years ago, but aren't questioning today's result in the same way. 

Do you trust their election process or not?

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by  Zachary Smith  |  6th Nov 24, 8:32pm 1730878343

Trump giving his victory speech now. Crowd shouting "USA!, USA!"

I think Trump will have matured since his last time in office. Wow, what a comeback. Truly epic.

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by  sharetrader  |  6th Nov 24, 8:40pm 1730878851

will be interesting to see who each side gets to run next time, the democrats could have parachuted in someone popular, but they resisted so now they have 4 years to find someone as for republicans who do you replace trump with.

elon musk cannot run because he was not born in america 

 

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by  Don m  |  6th Nov 24, 8:48pm 1730879335

JD Vance will follow trump.. then 8 years later D Trump junior

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by  Rampart  |  6th Nov 24, 9:10pm 1730880626

Vivek ramaswamy will be the 2028 candidate 

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by  blobbles  |  6th Nov 24, 10:36pm 1730885776

Trump has openly flirted with the idea of changing the constitution. Looks like Republicans might have all 3 branches of government, so not much standing in his way.  Xi Jinping did it in China, likely Trump doesn't see much barrier to it in the US.  So probably 8 more years of Trump, by then he will be old and hand it over to one of his kids.  When his first term is just middling to average, he can just say he hasn't been in long enough to make real change and the deep state etc is still controlling things. So change the constitution under urgency, invoke some sort of internal war footing to root out evil internal forces, then set his family up as a dynasty.  Might not be so bad, his daughter seems quite capable.

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by  Snow  |  7th Nov 24, 5:45am 1730911511

That's quite the conspiracy.

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by  HouseMouse  |  6th Nov 24, 8:55pm 1730879751

Can’t stand Trump and I really find it hard to believe! But it’s not my country, and that’s democracy.

What I would say is that the Dems need to have s good hard look at themselves. Like the centre left everywhere (although they aren’t really centre-left)

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by  paashaas  |  6th Nov 24, 9:12pm 1730880725

" Dems need to have s good hard look at themselves" - finally something I agree with you on . 

Not going to happen though - they are constitutionally incapable of that. 

The loss will be blamed on racism and misogyny - much easier  than self-reflection of any kind. 

 

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by  sharetrader  |  6th Nov 24, 8:58pm 1730879904

wow the USA elected a convicted felon as the president, it really is the country of the   "The American Dream"

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by  kiwikidsnz  |  6th Nov 24, 9:05pm 1730880356

Perhaps the majority have elected the leader they think best represents them...?

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by  HouseMouse  |  6th Nov 24, 10:19pm 1730884780

Yeah, as much as I dislike him that’s right. And we don’t live the life of Americans, do we.

As much as I dislike him, I find some of the anti-Trump rhetoric really tiring. It often comes from Chardonnay Socialists in my experience. The people who are precisely the problem with ‘The Left’

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by  Zachary Smith  |  6th Nov 24, 9:06pm 1730880367

I wonder if he will keep his promise and pardon the January 6th protestors?

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by  kiwichas  |  6th Nov 24, 9:32pm 1730881974

And defund Ukraine, condemning millions of Ukrainians to death, pull out of Nato, allow Putin to invade "whoever the hell he wants to"

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by  Noncents  |  6th Nov 24, 9:50pm 1730883011

Roosevelt tried to stay out of the WW2. It was not US's fight. This is the same thing.

If the USA needs to be called in everytime Europe has a problem, then what is the point of the EU?

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by  mfd  |  6th Nov 24, 9:52pm 1730883153

The point of the EU is its members haven't gone to war with each other - it used to be traditional every couple of decades or so. 

Not really set up to deal with external threats - traditionally the problems came from within. If Trumps steps back, I expect that will start to change. 

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by  Noncents  |  6th Nov 24, 10:04pm 1730883860

It needs to change.

The lesson every sovereign nation needs to understand is that they should not be entirely dependent on another nation for survival - Culturally, Economically, politically, or Militarily.

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by  Let me be Frank  |  6th Nov 24, 10:18pm 1730884693

"Roosevelt tried to stay out of the WW2."

"When World War II began in September 1939 with Germany's invasion of Poland and Britain and France's declaration of war on Germany, Roosevelt sought ways to assist Britain and France militarily.[227] Isolationist leaders like Charles Lindbergh and Senator William Borah successfully mobilized opposition to Roosevelt's proposed repeal of the Neutrality Act, but Roosevelt won Congressional approval of the sale of arms on a cash-and-carry basis.[228] He also began a regular secret correspondence with Britain's First Lord of the Admiralty, Winston Churchill, in September 1939—the first of 1,700 letters and telegrams between them.[229] Roosevelt forged a close personal relationship with Churchill, who became Prime Minister of the United Kingdom in May 1940.[230]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt

Trump aint no Roosevelt.

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by  blobbles  |  6th Nov 24, 10:31pm 1730885467

Yeah I thought that was some revisionist history going on, thanks for clearing it up

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by  MikeM  |  6th Nov 24, 9:09pm 1730880572

Trump completely smoked her in the end. Goes to show how hopeless the polls are. Either that or many voters say one thing and do another. 

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by  sharetrader  |  6th Nov 24, 10:16pm 1730884574

i think once all the votes are counted, she will win the overall vote. no republican has won that since George bush,

but due to their system you need to win enough of the seven swing states to win. it is a weird form of democracy. 

the USA is a very divided country at the moment and will be interesting to watch the fallout 

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by  TronMVP  |  6th Nov 24, 11:31pm 1730889118

You are kidding, right? Trump already has 5 million more votes than Harris.

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by  Due Diligence  |  6th Nov 24, 9:34pm 1730882086

Great result for USA and the world. A win for common sense over identity politics, trans-insanity, open borders etc. 

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by  sharetrader  |  6th Nov 24, 10:19pm 1730884762

he has promised tax cuts while paying down debt, an impossible task without slashing services or cutting programs, where have i heard that before

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by  K.W.  |  7th Nov 24, 9:07am 1730923658

He will be slashing Govt services.  That will be Elon's job.  And we've seen what Elon did with Twitter.  Now, if we could just get Elon to come do a once over of NZ's public service as well ....

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by  Let me be Frank  |  6th Nov 24, 10:33pm 1730885589

Well we were all in the shit before Trump was (re) elected and we're all still in the shit now so I guess not much has changed.

Good luck Ukraine.

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by  Rampart  |  7th Nov 24, 6:24am 1730913853

Any future nominee, Republican or Democrat needs to embrace the new media. Podcasts. If you want the youth vote which will also encompass the middle aged vote by next election, podcasts are a must. The youth don’t watch much mainstream and see through softball interviews. 

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by  Zachary Smith  |  7th Nov 24, 6:38am 1730914739

Internet culture certainly was critical to Trump's first election and in this election many "influencers" openly supported voting for Trump. Joe Rogan in particular, albeit quite late in the day. Hard to quantify how much of a help this was but I'd say it was significant.

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by  NZGecko  |  7th Nov 24, 7:06am 1730916415

For the Kackler in halfcheif to ignore the Rogan, Al Smith Dinner and talk down to the Latino and Black voters, cost her badly.



From 31 mins......a golden connection with real people.  The Karkler was sunk.

Alfred E. Smith Memorial Dinner (2024) | C-SPAN.org



The Kackler was a confused, out of touch, celebrity clutching, word salad.

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by  kpnuts  |  7th Nov 24, 7:08am 1730916497

well - although hes a nutter -- cant help but enjoy the results -- as teh media coverage all around the world including new Zealand has been so bias in its reporting.  As with the polls trying to create the impression trump was behind --  when he has clearly been way in front!   Its a Landslide in American terms -- and with control over senate house and judiciary -  he has a huge mandate and opportunity for change/chaos      buckle up folks ! 

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by  ex agent  |  7th Nov 24, 7:42am 1730918559

The most powerful country in the world run by a total nutter. Hold onto your tickets.

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by  mark_a  |  9th Nov 24, 6:56pm 1731131777

Buy more!

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