Just under 20,000 work visas approved in October

Economy / news

Number of overseas workers in NZ at the end of October up almost 11% year-on-year

12th Nov 24, 11:08am by Greg Ninness

A total of 16,323 people arrived in New Zealand on work visas in October, down 12.4% compared to October last year, according to the latest figures from the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment (MBIE).

However, while the number of people arriving in on work visas was down compared to a year ago, the total number of people in NZ on work visas was 192,930 at the end of October. That's up 10.6% compared to the same time last year.

The number of work visas being approved was also up slightly compared to a year ago.

A total of 19,809 work visas were approved in October this year, up 3.2% compared to the 19,194 approved in October last year.

The latest figures suggest the flows of people in and out of the country on work visas are returning to their usual seasonal patterns of peaks and troughs, with the total number of people in the country on work visas peaking in November and March, and troughs occurring in June/July and again in December.

Although the number of overseas workers in NZ has recovered from the severe downturn that occurred during Covid travel restrictions, it remains slightly below the record highs achieved pre-Covid.

The number of overseas workers at the end of October this year was down 5.0% compared to October 2019.

In addition to the 19,809 work visas approved in October, an additional 5421 residence visas were also approved.

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22 Comments

by singautim | 12th Nov 24, 11:29am 1731364173

It is a worry.

https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/11/12/immigration-adviser-on-tape-offering…

by WestieAJ | 12th Nov 24, 2:52pm 1731376359

We need immigration at some level for the economy to function. But every government attempt to reform or target ends up with loop holes that you can fly a 787 through. These consultants are just pond scum. Ripping off the immigrants and skimming tens of thousands of dollars tax free for themselves. Sick the IRD onto them. Dawn raid style. Liquidation first then bankruptcy.

by singautim | 12th Nov 24, 3:48pm 1731379681

Some are scum and some are genuinely trying to help innocent helpless applicants through the minefield of INZ bureaucracy. We don't need consultants to help us get an AT Hop card or find a GP or persuade a school to take our child. Occasionally CAB comes in useful.

It ought to be simple - the employer puts up a large bond and we accept the word of the applicant - similar to getting a tenancy - then if they have lied about health or qualifications or criminal record they get kicked out and the govt keeps the money. Fast and simple and maybe the govt makes money.

by Murray Falconer | 12th Nov 24, 3:10pm 1731377432

It's also what you and I have been saying for years.

$50k for a 12mth visa paid to INZ if you want to bring someone in to work and NO pathway to residency.

Allowing private individuals to sell NZ Residency is about as smart as letting privately owned banks lend money into existence and hasn't that worked out well.

But to be fair on the general population we've got media (this site included) running around saying the problem is high interest rates and that banks are locking out FHB's by not lending enough...

by singautim | 12th Nov 24, 11:38am 1731364681

Are those on Work Visas intending to leave having completed a rewarding job in NZ or have they brought their families and intend settling. Twenty years ago I did the latter but as a skilled IT professional I had the choice to return to my country of origin which had a slightly higher GDP per capita than NZ; I really prefer N for quality of life and social cohesion. When a driver or another chef arrives with their family I wonder if they will assimilate and if their long term demand on our resources will be higher than their contributions.

by loveyourwork | 12th Nov 24, 12:19pm 1731367177

Great point Singa. I'm all for immigration but it must be smart and targeted in order for it to be mutually beneficial. The last 10 years+ it hasn't.

by Pa1nter | 12th Nov 24, 12:45pm 1731368714

We need workers for everything though. If we just bought in doctors and coders, who's doing all the low tier stuff, us?

Should toilet cleaning only be done by Kiwis? What about their net financial contribution to the system?

by loveyourwork | 12th Nov 24, 12:46pm 1731368789

Ok so lets open the floodgates to anyone and everyone - well thought out.

by Pa1nter | 12th Nov 24, 1:06pm 1731369991

How would you begin to define "mutually beneficial"? Someone's net contribution to government coffers? Or that there's someone available to unclog your toilet, shelve your groceries, or drive you home after a night out?

No society has come up with a model to handle the population aging out like this. We'll get to see and learn from the likes of Germany, East Asia, etc dealing with these problems a couple of decades before us. Until then, our leadership is going to supplement the workforce with foreigners, of all types.

I don't see how excluding lower paid menial labour migrants resolves these problems.

by loveyourwork | 12th Nov 24, 2:27pm 1731374873

Singa's initial comment " if their long term demand on our resources will be higher than their contributions" is a good start as to mutually beneficial.

Our infrastructure is already at critical levels in some parts of society, and quality of life is objectively not improving. Defaulting to mass immigration is a lazy way of dealing with things, and short sighted.

Of course in some sectors there are exceptions. But the status quo is not working.

by General Comment | 12th Nov 24, 3:16pm 1731377780

I cleaned toilets and school classrooms as my first job, albeit part-time, when I was 16 years old. It wasn't glamorous but it enabled me to save to buy a car*, to get a full time job, to build a career. When I moved on someone else who wasn't too proud to to scrub a bog took my place. Working a menial job doesn't necessarily doom someone to a poor outcome in life.

*Okay I bought a stereo for my bedroom first. I was 16 years old, after all.

by Murray Falconer | 12th Nov 24, 3:40pm 1731379207

Absolutely, these jobs are excellent starter jobs. I mean even if you stuff it up the consequences aren't huge - it gets cleaned the next time.

It should be no surprise that these 'starter' jobs have been taken by immigrants who themselves are starting out. But let's not kid ourselves, we've given those opportunities that were once reserved for our citizens of less ability or just starting out to the immigrants. Painter has said they do a better job and are easier to manage for his business in the past and he's likely correct.

However, it misses the point that it's a private gain for him/his business and the downstream consequences of are handed off for society in general to try and sort out.

by OldSkoolEconomics | 15th Nov 24, 2:17pm 1731633429

And the costs.

We Subsidise painters profits by making up the tax his worker can't afford to pay as their contribution to nz.

Ought to be that any immigrant needs to prove their income will cover the tax needed to the increase in govt spend on that person. If not we need to have a discussion about how we are best funding those positions... the is probably a better way.

by K.W. | 12th Nov 24, 5:06pm 1731384384

I too, have cleaned toilets in order to put myself through University. The nature of the work is not important, its the work ethic that is instilled. Far too many New Zealanders have no work ethic, and are happy to live their life on a benefit. The development of things like a work ethic is what we are denying our young people when we replace with them immigrants, and then we wonder after a few years of being on benefits why they cant be bothered getting off them.

by singautim | 12th Nov 24, 3:57pm 1731380275

An unqualified Kiwi cleaning toilets is likely to be getting more in benefits than they will pay in tax given a long life and several children - although even the poorest worker pays income tax and they also pay GST at the same rate as a millionaire. Yes their net financial contribution is likely negative but it is a lot better than them remaining unemployed and our bringing in a 3rd world worker to do a job that is considered below the status of any person born in NZ.

Its comments about work being below the aspirations of Kiwis and only good enough for immigrants (preferably brown skinned immigrants) that make me have sympathy for the arguments against European colonialism and imperialism.

Incidentally it was a very long time ago but I have cleaned public toilets for a living - on a Scottish railways station especially after midnight Saturday you found remarkable things and even people in the cubicles. Summer job as a student.

by 21Trillion | 14th Nov 24, 8:43pm 1731570186

Another low IQ comment by yourself Pa1nter.

Kiwis aren't doing low tier roles because the pay is not sufficient, partly due to suppressed wages by importing anyone that will do it for a cheap price.

$450 a week job seeker or $700 post tax for 40 hours of 'cleaning toilets'.

You love ignoring reality.

by ozzzy2 | 12th Nov 24, 12:34pm 1731368075

Possible Gate Way to Australia for some?

by Chairman Moa | 12th Nov 24, 3:00pm 1731376842

If that Peter Dutton gets in next year, you can bet that he will close that gap in immigration between NZ and Aust. He's known to dislike kiwis.

by Ngrrk | 12th Nov 24, 3:44pm 1731379442

I'd be surprised if he wasn't formulating a plan now. As a kiwi resident of Australia we will obtain our Aus citizenship this year. I'd suggest any kiwi living in Aus, who has the ability, to do the same.

by The_Golem | 16th Nov 24, 8:13am 1731697992

Over years of working in technology manufacturing, we got a lot of skilled people coming in from overseas. However: a lot more than half were departing for Australia once they had NZ citizenship becasue they would be paid so much more and the quality of life they wanted was so much greater.

What can we offer highly skilled people who aren't obsessed by the out doors, but want a cosmopolitan lifestyle, good opportunities, and where you aren't surprised when you get more than the absolute minimum standard in anything?

by Murray Falconer | 12th Nov 24, 6:22pm 1731388948

have they brought their families and intend settling

They're certainly bringing the whole family and children:

Study visas for foreign workers' children nearly double since pre-pandemic levels | RNZ News

Often one work visa granted turns into many more mouths to feed, sometimes the partner gets the right to work too or does so under the table (another reason to tax land and not wages - since only the more honest pay income tax).

That pulls education funding away from native English speakers as we spend more per head on their children than our own:

Increase in new migrant students puts strain on English language teaching resources | RNZ News

On the plus side GDP is up!

by Wrong John | 12th Nov 24, 5:33pm 1731385992

We are a little isolated from the ugly reality of most of the earth's citizenry. As tough as it is out there, & it's pretty tough, we are still well within the top 20% of our fellows earth-ites. The sad part of this is that the people at the bottom end of our own little pile, have no idea how lucky they are, compared to the bottom end of the other 80% of countries out there, right now. Today. Yes, some of these people are sick, but a lot of them are sick of working or contributing anything of value to their families, communities or country. They are the non-trade-ables of the worst kind.