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NZ citizens and residents in India barred from travelling to NZ between April 11 and 28, as COVID-19 cases in MIQ jump and a hotel security guard tests positive

NZ citizens and residents in India barred from travelling to NZ between April 11 and 28, as COVID-19 cases in MIQ jump and a hotel security guard tests positive
Cartoon by Ross Payne

Updated at 6:15pm

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has announced New Zealand citizens and residents in India will be temporarily banned from entering New Zealand.

The suspension will apply from 4pm, April 11 until April 28.

The decision has been made as 17 of the 24 new cases of COVID-19 in New Zealand on Thursday travelled from India.

The Government will use the suspension period to figure out how to improve the managed isolation system to reduce the risk posed by kiwis returning to New Zealand from high-risk countries. 

India is currently reporting 93,000 new cases of COVID-19 a day (on average over the past week).

New Zealand’s seven-day rolling average of new cases a day increased from two to three earlier in the year, to four to five from March. It hit seven on Wednesday.

Director General of Health Ashley Bloomfield believed people travelling from India were contracting the virus as they travelled, after receiving their negative pre-departure test results. 

New border case missed two vaccination appointments

Separately, a security guard based at the Grand Millennium managed isolation facility has tested positive for COVID-19.

The Ministry of Health’s assessment is that the risk to the wider community from the case is low.

The man returned a positive swab after being tested on Tuesday.

The Ministry of Health hasn’t identified any locations the guard visited. He worked night shifts over Easter weekend and didn’t go to work on Wednesday.

He also lives alone, but travels to work with a colleague, who returned a negative test result.

The man's four neighbours from an adjoining house have also returned negative results.

He hasn’t been vaccinated.

The Ministry said he missed two vaccination appointments for personal reasons. His employer is being contacted for further information.

The employer has vaccinated 79% of its managed isolation facility workers. Meanwhile 81% of Grand Millennium staff have received their first vaccination.

The Ministry said Grand Millennium staff would be tested every week, rather than every fortnight as is currently the case.

The National Party released this statement in response to Thursday's developments:

National is urging the Government to adopt five simple steps for strengthening the border, in light of the recent surge in Covid-19 cases arriving on our shores, National’s Covid-19 Response spokesperson Chris Bishop says. 

National’s five steps for strengthening the border are:

  1. Introduce rapid antigen testing – nasal swab tests that return results in 15 minutes – for everyone getting off international flights
  2. Vaccinate every border worker, and if they refuse then remove them from the frontline
  3. Conduct daily saliva testing of every person who works in an MIQ facility
  4. Start separating returnees from higher-risk countries and lower-risk countries into their own dedicated MIQ facilities
  5. Investigate construction of a purpose-built Covid-19 quarantine facility on the outskirts of Auckland

“National has been saying, since January, that if you arrive in New Zealand from a higher-risk destination then you should go into a high-risk hotel,” Mr Bishop says.

“People from higher-risk destinations, like India, should not be mixing and mingling in MIQ with passengers from the Pacific Islands, for example.”

National appreciates our New Zealand-Indian community and places a huge value on everything they contribute to our country both economically and socially, Mr Bishop says.

“The people arriving from India with Covid-19 didn’t want to catch this virus or pass it on to others. We would hate to see a situation where Kiwis are torn apart from family in India for long periods of time because our Government can’t get its border defences right.”

Mr Bishop says it’s time for the Government to introduce rapid antigen testing for all people getting off international flights in New Zealand.

“You have the results in as little as 15 minutes and if anyone tests positive then they are immediately moved to quarantine and have their results confirmed by a standard PCR test.

“Day zero and day one tests are a critical part of our border defences but returnees can be in an MIQ facility for up to 24 hours waiting for the results, potentially spreading Covid-19 if they are positive.”

The most concerning aspect of today’s Covid-19 revelations is that the border worker who tested positive had not been vaccinated, and that the Government doesn’t appear to know why, Mr Bishop says.

"Everyone in New Zealand will want to know why this border worker wasn't vaccinated, and how many other staff out there in our border and MIQ facilities haven’t yet received a vaccine - and why they haven’t received a vaccine.

“The Government has many questions still to answer on this.”

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208 Comments

13
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Article in The Herald this morning questioning why the origin of the most inward case numbers wasn’t categorised alongside that of the USA. Reaction by Ministry of Health this afternoon. Oh well at least they have reacted. Wonder why though a frontline worker at MIQ has not been vaccinated? Understood from much fanfare, these were to be the first priority. Has the identity then refused inoculation?

36
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JA and Labour will be losing credibility big-time if they don't put an end to what is obviously a huge scam whereby those from India with the support of some Indian-based immigration agent in collusion with some New Zealand-based immigration agency facilitate the arrangements for the issuance of a certificate of residency or citizenship on completion of some dubious English language course by some dodgy outfit masquerading as an English Language School.
Upon the attainment of this privilege many have obviously returned to India only to use NZ as a convenient 'bolt-hole' in case of an emergency such as the pandemic or, in the future, to obtain NZ superannuation by spending the minimum of 6 month's in NZ and then the following 6-months in India paid for by their entitlement to NZ's generous superannuation.
I would suggest that only those who go on to obtain a degree in the 'hard sciences' or computer science from a NZ university should be entitled to gain NZ citizenship. And then they can maybe bring their parents over; but the parents would not be entitled to superannuation for 20 years.
Interest.co's journalists should dig into this situation boots and all; surely this topic is a meaty bone.

There is definitely a problem with low-value education courses in NZ and the way the system has been manipulated by both applicants and immigration advisors. However, it is not possible to for "some New Zealand-based immigration agency arrange for the issuance of a certificate of residency or citizenship on completion of some dubious English language course". Similarly, I would also suggest that "a degree in the 'hard sciences' or computer science from a NZ university should be entitled to gain NZ citizenship" is the wrong idea because some tertiary institutes in India are better than ours. The real problem is that the way our systems and processes are designed, it attracts low calibre applicants and makes it difficult for applicants who can add value to our nation.

20
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Let's be honest.

No one means NO ONE comes here to study but is a pathway to residency.

10
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Not correct. I studied Law with a bunch of Malaysian international students and they all went back. That doesn’t mean the residence pathway is / was terrible and needs to be overhauled, but your assertion that everyone comes here and studies crap just to live here is incorrect.

That 'Low-Value' education funds the private sector international education sector with $4b!
That's the scam!
It's been a rort for years. Clipping the ticket education where the school is eligible for MoE funding via the 'credits' system. At $22 per credit achieved times, thousands of credits is money for jam.

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streetwise...these residency scams have been going on for years and it is good we are finally waking up to it. And I do not care if I am labelled a racist but the fact is Indians represent a disproportionate amount of the scammers. If stating a fact makes me a racist (in some peoples eyes) I really don't care. If we do not act soon there will be more Indians in Auckland than NZ born kiwis within 30 years. Citizenship and residency should be the exception, not the rule. There needs to be compelling reasons for granting each and every application. And bringing parents over should be completely out of the question. It is almost like we are basing our immigration policies around ensuring we will never have any chance of solving the housing crisis.

You are racist mate. Don't say that Indians are scammers. I have seen many pakeha and other race here. Everyday I hear big scams, in millions. Secondly, this Maoris are the first people to come to New Zealand, then after your ancestors came. So you are migrant like me.
Economy wise, Indians are doing all lower jobs, doing more hours and paying more tax to pay for your so called "super" anuation.
Stop being racist. Try to ban US Or Brazil or UK IF this government GOT BALLS.

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bloodymigrant..you might want to read my post more carefully mate. It said "Indians represent a disproportionate amount of the scammers", which I stand by on the basis that it is a fact. I did not say Indians are scammers. When it comes to document fraud (which is the area of scamming that is relevant to this issue) Indians (along with Bangladeshis) are world leaders in this type of scam. If you wish to obtain a fraudulent but professional document anywhere in Asia you will probably be doing business with an Indian or Bangladeshi. Fact.
Previously having rental houses in Mt Roskill and BHB I have had more Indian tenants than Europeans. Not the sign of a racist and must have treated them OK because none of them tried to scam me. If any other country had a disproportionate number of scammers negatively affecting NZ I would respond in the same manner. However, if it makes you feel better to play the well worn race card then go ahead. Why would I care. Most people understand that document scamming by Indians for Indians is a real problem that we need to ensure does not negatively affect our country.
It is our fault as we should never have granted residency and citizenship to so many "net negative migrants" in the first place. I hope we learn from our mistakes. Imagine how many (fake) "brothers, sisters and parents" of migrants we have allowed to move here due to the same type of disproportionately Indian document scam.

For me, you are so negative and sick in your mentality. Have you heard about pakeha guy who made more than 100 fraudulent community card in Auckland? New Zealand? First world country?

I’m Indian. I am very cautious at what I’m told from my countrymen. I love NZ honesty.

Yeah nah

Because Britishers started colonialism. So as per their system, whatever theirs is ours. It is their fault. Now no need to cry mate.

What is the percentage of Europeans in India, China and Korea? They don't even register in ethnic breakdown (i.e. they are included in "other"). Why would you think half the Indian cricket team or Parliament should be European Indians?

Asians (which includes the countries you have referred to) make up 14% of NZ's population in the 2016-2018 census. That means there should be at least 17 Asian MPs if their representation in Parliament was to be proportional.

(post edit: I see you changed your post)

Pull your head in as your redneck is showing.

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Bloody migrant calm down

I don’t agree with what bloody migrant is saying at all.

But if you think the Indian cricket team is all one, homogenous race, you are mistaken.

And secondly, have you ever heard of Sonia Gandhi?

I could go on, but with great respect your ignorance Sir is outstanding.

Essen

Wrong I'm not ignorant. You are referring to indians from different states and kastes. Punjab and Hindu and tamil and Muslim etc. How about zero Europeans in it's team. Roger binney was half English though. Your a anti white racist essen.

There are different ethnic groups. They are not the same.

You also didn’t talk about Sonia Gandhi who is arguably the most influential politician in India bar Modi.

I wish I could post an emoji or GIF to respond to “anti-white racist”, which is hilarious!

I think you need to check out and do some homework. First Indians came here 100 years ago and so called "great Europeans, Settlers or kiwis" kicked them out of Hamilton and Auckland. The new area called "Bombay"!! Now these indians own lots off land because of their hard work and farming. They are multi millionaires. Your Comments are insane and half of knowledge.

Take a pill mate. No need for that rant

I agree. You can only go by experience, and I have seen quite a lot of scamming behaviour among Indian people.
Does that mean all Indians are scammers? Of course not.
Does that mean I automatically distrust Indians? Of course not. I have known plenty of Indian people with integrity.

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Why on earth should Indian parents be entitled to a NZ pension, even after 20 years? If you cannot support yourself in a new country, you should stay where you are.

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Why only Indian, this should apply to all.

stu...True

My parents are in India and they don't give a sh$$t to come to New Zealand.

So everyone's happy then?

bloodymigrant..good. They should not be allowed to anyway. What positive effect would they have on NZ? We are short of water, housing, parking etc. Our people should have priority. Could you tell me how I can move to India, get citizenship there, start working and buy a house then bring all my family over too? If you can come to NZ and do it then I should be able to go to India and do the same right?

You can obtain Indian citizenship by naturalisation and all of those other things too. It’s not as quick as it is in NZ, but it is possible. The real problem there isn’t the lack of reciprocity, but that NZ is too easy - not just by Asian standards, but even compared to similar countries like Australia. I have no idea why this hasn’t been tightened up over time.

Why not, they entitled to come here and live here but they are enjoying better life with their friends. I don't need your opinion or advice or permission or instructions! Lol

Bloodymigrant

India has no Europeans in its Parliament. Indian's are racist because there are zero Europeans in it's parliament.

Incorrect. Use Google. It’s your friend.

Eseen the 2 Europeans are handpicked under the constitution

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kk...Why should anybody who never works in NZ qualify for a NZ pension. My wife got residency last year and could have got Govt Super without ever paying one cent in tax. Ridiculous. I recommended she join kiwi saver and put in a lump sum of $1100 PA in order to collect $520 free Govt money, Ridiculous. If I left her and our two kids she would get around $700PW (I think) free Govt money. Ridiculous. Why did INZ not demand I sign something to say I am financially responsible for her for the next ten years or more? Why can she get free kiwi saver and Govt super money without ever having to contribute one cent in tax? Why should she be entitled to bring her Mum over to also take much from NZ while giving nothing?

Karl, I been here from last 20 years. I paid tax in millions not in thousands. Still I don't want any super from government. Also I haven't joined Kiwi saver neither my family. I got few rentals ( most of residential are mortgage free, only few commercial got mortgage) and I will survive on their rents. I am here for good life not after Citizenship or any benefits.

bloodymigrant...If you have paid millions in tax and invested heavily in NZ in NON PROPERTY related things then you have probably been a positive on NZ. But I still feel that you (probably) should not have been granted residency or citizenship and should have to apply for a yearly renewable visa where your impact on NZ is assessed. In times like these with huge water and housing shortages I believe most of these yearly visa applications should be declined and the foreigners returned to their homes until we no longer have shortages. We need to put kiwis first. It is our fault not yours and if we have (probably wrongly) granted you residency then once that has happened, in my view you are now a kiwi who should be treated the same as any other kiwi. But in my opinion the vast majority of migrants who have not yet been given residency or citizenship should never be given it. Housing our own people should come well before being kind to migrants who are not yet citizens. It is not personal so please do not take it that way.

It is a very difficult and time consuming process to cancel the visa and send people back, unless the Govt follows the Aussie style. Annual review would result in a massive disruption and waste of time and resources in identifying and sending people back. Besides it tarnishing the image of NZ.

I agree Karl - new immigrants should have to live (and pay tax) in NZ for 20 years before being elligible for Super.

I don’t have the statistics on hand right now but from memory (and this thread is a good example) Asian migrants - East or South - are the least likely to take any form of welfare, but are the most likely ethnic group to suffer discrimination.

I can assure you, that after working in community aged care in Auckland, migrants recently arriving from Asia are very happy to accept every cent that the tax payer is willing to hand out.

And I can assure you that among my network of Asian businesses, none took the wage subsidy. Your anecdotal story is just that, one example, and like mine is not representative of what is really happening out there. A few years ago it was Chinese sounding names buying all the houses, Maori have been unfairly bashed for years, and Pasifika communities were turning NZ into a banana republic. While I agree with what the Government is doing in this instance and want to see reduced and improved immigration, the assumptions and prejudice on show in this thread is incredible.

You're implying prejudice in my comment. It was anecdotal, like yours, and was intended as a counter argument only.

Homo economicus? The rational human will do its best to improve its prospects. Just like why I didn't sell my house to the lowest bidder

Essen..I would guess you are right and for the record I do admire the Asian work ethic, although saying that will be deemed by some as a weird kind of racial micro-aggression against certain other races. But if we really want to start talking in racial divides then which race would you expect to be involved in a disproportionate number of sexual and slave labour related cases? And we won't mention the document fraud scams that started this whole issue again.

What kind of sexual? Are we talking about pedos here? Because the last news I saw was about Dilworth chaplains and that dude looked white. What kind of slave labour? The fisheries industry? I know what you’re trying to say, but I find dividing these people based on race is unhelpful. I mean what is an Indian? What is a Chinese? The problem isn’t race, it’s an alignment problem: the people we are importing at times aren’t aligned with our shared cultural values.

The second part of the problem is a systems one. Our systems are encouraging this behaviour and the regulators haven’t got a clue. It’s not different to the financial industry where regulators have been asleep at the wheel. 6 months ago we were talking about labour violations in retail alcohol outlets (Indians) and in the past week or two we have seen coverage of exploitation in the construction industry (Chinese). In both cases an overlooked fact is the people that operate (at a high level) and regulate these industries are New Zealand European. Some migrants are wealthy, but none have power and influence in NZ.

Maybe we shouldn’t focus on race, which is an easy out, and instead try to look at the problems a little more deeply to address the root causes not the symptoms.

Yeah nah?

What do you mean by homogenous? Because Japan appears that way to many, but isn’t. I lived there and speak Japanese.

I lived in Korea. Lovely hospitable people, mostly ugly country (with a few glorious exceptions) still recovering in places from the Korean war's effect on its landscape. Low tax, low social support, low statutory holiday entitlements. Expensive education. Crazy rental system. Underclass of Russian factory workers, and poor sanitation in rural areas.

The few foreigners who marry and settle there can struggle socially.

A few clues there

24
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Just pondering these stunning numbers: 17 people infected and in MIQ having come here from India.
1) What were so many Kiwi's doing in India and why have they left it so long to return home?
2) How come moneyed tourists from India (the 'travellers' Bloomfield refers too) are so successful in securing places at our MIQ facilities?

42
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Many are NRIs or Indian nationals who picked up a residency visa of some description, then returned to live in India long term or indefinitely, but now are availing themselves of the very generous NZ govt gift of residency via student visa, or work visa, etc.
They are putting NZ at high risk.

32
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100% correct, or had dual citizenship which will then be cashed in come retirement/super age. However NZ is currently a more favourable place to live. I suspect 95% of these cases stepped onto the plane from India to Dubai knowing they had Covid-19 , however had a fake PCR test certificate and some cold/flu medicine to hide symptoms until making it to NZ.
NZ needs to validate a testing Lab in a few Indian cities that we can check Covid PCR tests are genuine before leaving for NZ. Their cases are exploding each day, and I'm sure each arrival into NZ costs the taxpayer thousands of dollars in additional Quarantine treatment at the Jet Park facilities. We should be prosecuting the individuals running this dangerous fraud through our border.

28
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Just goes to show what a soft touch we are. And it manifests in our overloaded health system and infrastructure, and a superannuation burden which will sink us. What are we doing?!?!

24
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I am really struggling to understand why we are taking this level of risk on arrivals from India. How is it acceptable 17 of 19 arrivals have Covid? It clearly has a much higher degree of risk than other destinations.

Are we really prepared to accept Indian nationals who have picked up a student visa/residency over born and bred NZer's who cannot get MIQ spots? All the sacrifices and lock-downs, just getting to a point we can see family in Australia.

It's 17 people from India out of 19 people in total that have COVID.
So the total number of people in MIQ 'from' India is not given.

Agreed, nevertheless there is a clear case for those arriving from India to have an enhanced MIQ, tighter security and higher standards. If we get this wrong the cost could be enormous.

All arrivals coming into NZ from India fly via Emirates. They sure as heck won't fly a plane-load in and expect to fly back out empty. It seems that there is a high turnover flying in and others back out to Mumbai. The border closure creates a dilemma for Emirates. Do they bring in empty planes to meet their obligations for departures to Mumbai that are booked and paid for. That's the test. Expect a drop off of Indian nationals departing NZ over the next 3 weeks. Watch the departure totals. Expect a good number of Emirate flight cancellations

What were you doing Te kooti when 9 out of 11 came from UK and US? Because they are big daddy?

17
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Many, if not most, immigrants are taking advantage of our naivety.
Such a shortsighted country in so many ways.

As a migrant, there are so many good countries instead of NZ. They are misguided or got no information about NZ culture which is highly racist.

Your call - so go spread the news...

My experience is that the “good countries instead of NZ” are considered such because of the money magnet of their jobs. I chose to measure NZ by safety, great temperate weather, wonderful people, and extraordinary beauty. Many chose the money.

Good point

All societies and cultures have racism. I remember some very racist behaviour from Indian cricket crowds in the past.
Racism is absolutely not something only committed by white people.

Well you don't have to live here.
What an arrogant and entitled attitude.

It sounds like you would be happier to live in another country, there are lots of flights available daily to choose from. Maybe you can then sell your many properties to increase supply.

What's wrong with not wanting more migrants in nz?

I don't care what colour you are, if you where not born here or married to someone who was, then personally I don't want any more here. That's not racist. That's just me wanting to live with people who speak my language and hold the same cultural background.

I'm a migrant. Witnessed very little racism.

Couple of instances of Maori on white and Maori on Asian.

New Zealand is a fantastic place to live. Flawed like anywhere, but on balance there's nowhere else I'd rather be.

19
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Yes, and I can guarantee you (from what a colleague of mine told me when he was assigned to Mumbai in India for work reasons, around 3 years ago) that in India it is quite easy, and not expensive, to bribe somebody in order to obtain a "fake" police report, a "fake" driving license, even a "fake" degree!
I bet that most such Covid test certificates are fake too. When Bloomfield said today that there is "no reason not to take these test certificates at face value", I laughed my a%% off.
All flights from India should be suspended indefinitely, at least until the large majority of the NZ population is vaccinated.

Agree with all that, but I simply cannot understand why we are not lining up all people in the departure lounge and give them a saliva test before they get on a flight. If Britain can offer all of it's citizens this test every 2 days, what the hell is wrong with us. Wasn't it a Kiwi who helped pioneer the test? Bloody weak and pathetic. Similarly we should be testing all exposed boarder and MPI isolation staff every 1 or 2 days.

Sess..wouldn't it be far easier to stop handing out PR and citizenship like candy in the first place? Problem solved.

2. Because they are NZ Citizens

'Moneyed tourists' are citizens?
If 17 of them are infected, then what is the total number of people from India who are currently in our MIQ facilities?
Would help to get complete numbers.

10
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Many are not full citizens, but Residents either limited residency visas or permanent residents who are normally living outside NZ.

I think we are compelled by int'l law not to leave anyone 'stateless' - which is why NZ citizens must be able to return home. I'm guessing with the continued high infection rates we are seeing in a number of countries, our current rule might change to NZ citizens only - meaning not NZ residents with citizenship elsewhere.

I can see why they are taking the time to look into these numbers/trends.

Agree. Let's start looking after citizens. Why on earth wouldn't we.

12
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Kate..but surely the point is that we learn from our mistakes and from now on residency and citizenship is an extremely guarded privilege, which is only granted for very compelling reasons ie have a kiwi partner. Skilled workers need to train kiwis to do the jobs then leave. Students need to finish studying (without working here to support themselves) then leave.

Karl, why they come and train your "boys"? They have better countries close to india not 20 hours flight to NZ. Have you seen the size of NZ economy? 300 Billion. Same as small city Singapore. You still not in real world may be on P or ?

bloodymigrant..they will come if we pay them enough. And in reality there are probably less than 5% of our so called migrant essential workers are actually essential. We do not need them. We just need to pay kiwis more money.
BTW what is this P? I am familiar with the other letters LGBTQA but is this P another new one? And unsure what the size of our economy has to do with the price of a fish vindaloo?

"I think we are compelled by int'l law not to leave anyone 'stateless' "
That's what is supposed to be but in reality it different like normal kiwi culture. When turn back they will stab you.

11
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bloodymigrant...we have probably the kindest, friendliest (stupidest) immigration policies in the developed world.

Hi Kate
There are a few countries around which don't allow dual cotizenship or make it very difficult. I think many New Zealanders don't understand the problems faced by these citizens as NZ allows dual citizenship. I am a born German came here with my NZ partner in 1987 as an experienced nurse and paid tax ever since.Remained a permanent resident to be able to hurry back to Germany to look after my ailing parents without having to go through all the well known German burocracy and be able to support myself working if I had to look after them for an extended time. It turned out to be the right choice. Just looking at citizenship without looking at the rules of the country of birth seems over simplyfing things. By the way Germany has relaxed there restrictions. However having no immediate family left in Germany, I still won't qualify for dual citizenship.

Do you know that for a fact? Based on the data I found, there is insufficient data for you to make that conclusion. I knew people that were stuck for a period in India and they were New Zealand born citizens.

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Esson..I would bet a very large amount of money that the vast majority are Indian born.

frazz..and we have ourselves to blame for that. Hopefully we learn from our costly mistake.

Karl, why were you silent when 9 out of 11 Covid19 came from flight?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-9-new-cases-in-manage...
You shouldn't be silent when Covid19 originated from Wuhan?

I note Jacinda has just suspended travel from India to combat the high risk to NZ that that origin presents.
The ban will begin on Sunday and will remain in place until April 28.

Yes, closed until April 28 and from Monday unvaccinated border workers won't be able to continue in a high risk role.

20
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Reactive rather than proactive yet again.

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That’s what I can’t figure up until today regarded as a lesser risk than LAX & SFO. And then today, the klaxon sounded. Dive! Dive! Dive! Incoming virus carriers, and a massive reaction.Again suggest if the Herald hadn’t written it up, MOH HQs would just have slumbered on

Foxglove..the simple explanation is that with somebody coming from LAX or SFO there is a (much much) lesser risk that they are arriving on the basis of a fake Covid result bought from a scammer, by a scammer, from Mumbai or Delhi. Thems the facts but if it makes anyone feel better to call me a racist, be my guest.

Got that. Believe we are on the same page. Let’s just say then, on the face of it the categorisations applicable up until today, for India & the USA would have been more appropriate and justified if they had been the other way round. Wouldn’t it be nice and encouraging, if just for once the government & MOH could have been alert and actioning measures in advance without having to be woken up first. This time it seems due thanks to the NZ Herald.

Foxglove... agree.

Karl, have you been to Mumbai or Delhi? Tell me the truth mate. Please say the few area or street name. Otherwise stop spreading negativity and bluffing.

bloodymigrant....I would still be entitled to my opinions whether I had been to these places or not but I will answer you. Yes, I spent over 2 months travelling between Mumbai and Kerala. Amazing place and great people but since you want some negativity I will provide it.
I have never been offered drugs more than I did in Mumbai. I mean every 20 metres. The beaches in Goa were beautiful but you did need to watch where you walked as they were littered with needles. Somebody attempted to short change me about 3 out of every ten times I bought something. Almost every female back packer I spoke to complained about being harassed, groped or even worse. Compared to other Asians like Thais (who are incredibly clean) I found as a generalization the people to be filthy with absolutely no regard for any standard of hygiene whatsoever. And although a have visited numerous red-light districts around the world I have never seen anything like the enslaved cage dancing prostitutes in Mumbai selling themselves for less than a dollar. (condom $2. girl and yes I do mean girl not woman $1). People sleeping on the streets lined up like sardines. And the racist caste system is one of the most horrific crimes against humanity one could imagine. It was heartbreaking. I can completely understand why so many Indians want to escape the hellhole they come from. I do not blame them. I blame the NZers that do not refuse to allow them to move here.
And you would be far too easy to bluff. Poker is now popular in India (especially in Goa) but I have yet to meet an Indian who is any good (which is surprising considering your propensity towards sneakiness and trickery). And finally the Black caps are gunna give your elitist, stuck up cricket team a good hiding in June and I can't wait to see Kohli's sad little face as it all unfolds. How's that for negative?

This was my experience also. Don't leave you wallet on the table lol.

Isn't India the place where counterfit money was such a problem that it was causing inflation, so the govt had to overnight ban the circulation or some lower denomination? I forgot the exact number and time but it was in the last few years.

You’re not racist. But there’s an unconscious bias in what you’re saying. It’s actually far easier to get the fake test results online in Europe. But where the fake results come from is besides the point, it’s the system that can be gamed and it’s the system that needs redesign.

Essen..agree with second part for sure. Surely airlines are not accepting online generated test results. It is hard to believe that it would be easier to get a GOOD fake in Europe than Asia but then I don't know for sure. Most people are aware that Bangkok is the global hub for weapons, people, drug and wildlife smuggling but it is lesser known that it is also the global hub for professional document fraud, in particular passports. And guess who is behind the document fraud. One clue. First letter I.

Testing may be inaccurate too hence negative tests when the people are positive, but yes fake certificates most definitely available.

Good point. People shouldn’t assume malice when incompetence is more likely.

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Tom..they will probably all be Indians that we were stupid enough to give citizenship to. Thanks to NZ they have residency and can now call themselves kiwis but for all intents and purposes they are Indians who live in India.
Man, will we ever learn from our mistakes?

Not Indian, but similar theme - I have an acquaintance originally from Hong kong, who jumped the ship from NZ to Aus about 10 years. When covid hit she and her family scuttled back to take advantage of benefits here.
Now that the trans Tasman bubble has been announced she is going to scuttle back to Aus.

@fritz extending the theme further - Since last year NZ born and bred Kiwis who left NZ, migrated to other countries, lived there for years, build their wealth in other countries, haven't contributed to NZ economy and paid any tax and they started to comeback to NZ when they lost their jobs overseas or they were scared to get infected by COVID. They were welcomed in NZ without any judgment or criticism and they are reaping the benefit (or taking advantage of the system) here too? I know people (NZ born kiwis) who lived in Dubai for years because they were getting paid way more there, having lavish lifestyles and they came back to NZ.

I guess that is justifiable ?

Well, yes. According to the Geneva Convention "Right of Return" all kiwis have a guaranteed right of voluntary return to their country of origin (New Zealand).

Karl, you as a failed person cannot give citizenship to anyone but government gave that. I respect that. But now you are jealous that Indians are doing better in each field, lawyers, doctors, businesses and many more. Keep on spreading your negativity, your own karma will bite you.

Prior to this thread, I felt Karl’s views about immigration were principled and informed. But some of the comments here are ugly. We are heading for increased racial division and demographic warfare in the coming years. Unfortunately, none of that will help solve anything.

I don't think you should imply Karl is racist or prejudiced. He is married to a non European and has mixed race kids. His comments are generally pretty well reasoned.

Just because he’s married to a non-European doesn’t mean his comments towards one or more other groups in this thread isn’t ugly. That’s like saying if I’m married to a Japanese woman, my views on Chinese or Maori cannot be prejudiced. “Indians”, if we want to group them bluntly, can also be prejudiced towards other “Indians”. I think the discourse on this thread has been well below what should be expected on interest.co.nz and it’s worrying that this level of conversation is being levelled at Boomers and other groups. We are heading for disaster as a country if everyone thinks like this.

I think this discourse is really important. It's been repressed the world over because it's not 'PC'.
I am a fan of multiculturalism but it can go too far. It's definitely gone too far in the UK and much of Europe. There is frequently a clash of world views and that is not healthy for a society. I fear NZ is going in that direction. We need highly skilled immigrants whose values align with a western world view. They need not come from a western country.
I am not seeing this alignment in plenty of our immigrants.
It's a privilege for them to be here. Not a right.

I don’t disagree with you at all! I have posted above recently that this is an alignment problem. India and China, in particular, are big, diverse countries. To be blunt, we need the right migrants that share common values, regardless of race or origin, and I feel that some of the comments here have been too focused on race, scapegoating one “race”, when that group is so diverse - religions, cultures, languages, ethnicities that at times all hate one another!

Yes, exactly. I know Chinese and Indian people who have assimilated well.
My observation is that that it is immigrants with quality tertiary liberal western educations that tend to assimilate well. Conversely, I think 'blue collar' immigrants, tend to assimilate less well. Generalisations, but I strongly feel there is some truth to them.

For what it's worth I have noticed that English people can be hit and miss with assimilation. There's some right whingers, but also some really good ones.
So it's not necessarily about whether people are from western countries or not.

I have noticed similar with South Africans. Some are incredibly talented, work bloody hard and make massive contributions to NZ. Others still seem to be stuck in the Boer War. I truly believe, the problem isn't about race or culture, but about values.

Agree. Sh*t has gotten wierd. Just catching up and reading this thread is something I'm going to have to stop now. Doesn't leave you with a good feeling

Essen..which ones are ugly bearing in mind you started the break downs based on race? I will admit some of them are ugly truths that are possibly left unsaid but certainly not racist. As I have said most of my tenants were Indians. I have an Asian wife. I chose to live amongst foreigners for 25 years. At the risk of being racist, (as a generalization) Asians are the most openly racist people on the planet. Goggle Thai racist ads or racism in Japan if you have any doubt.

Yes I lived in Japan for two years, quite a racist country at times.

Try being black in Japan, or many places in Asia. Unfortunately, human ignorance toward 'the other' is not unique to the western world.

Yes as a caucasian I was treated very well in general, although I did have the odd, quasi-racist experience.
I recently read of African people getting a very hard time in China in one of the main cities they have settled in.

When hiring in Korea I was instructed not to hire black people from America because then parents might withdraw their kids from my school

Rather than attacking the systems and processes that are hurting New Zealand and probably many Indian migrants too, you have been pretty blunt in (mis)representing Indians, whatever that means, as disproportionately involved in scam activity. I don’t believe this is true or helpful (although I can appreciate why you think this). I believe if you look through case law, you’ll find that many races are represented in immigration fraud.

And I don’t disagree with you about Thailand or Japan. But just because they’re bad doesn’t justify us behaving in the same way. New Zealand used to aspire to be a better country. While many Kiwis like to laugh at America, the divides seen there are emerging in NZ. This is regrettable.

Maybe because multiculturalism doesn't work essen... Why has nz the greatest country on earth decided to change it's British majority nation with indians and Chinese when it's not recepricle.

You lost all credibility when you claimed NZ was the greatest country on earth.

There is a difference between multiracial and multicultural. And many modern nation states, including many in Europe, have been that way successfully for 100s of years. The idea that immigration is the root cause of certain social failures, say in the UK, is a convenient shortcut of usually the less educated that masks the real problems that are causing the apparent issues. You may be surprised to know that I oppose the unbridled immigration numbers we have seen in NZ in recent years.

Edit: 1 more thing - you are proud of your culture. This is a good thing. I am not going to accuse you of white supremacy or label you "pale, male or stale" like many New Zealanders increasingly will do. I detest those things and what seems to be a constant attempt to rewrite history. But, one of the beautiful parts of a culture is its language. May I suggest that you learn to read and speak your language, English, properly?

bloodymigrant... not jealous mate. I am doing all right. The more negative we are towards foreigners seeking long-term stays in NZ the more positive it is for our young and poor for many reasons. So try to be positive and look at it from the view that I want to create the most positive environment for our people and I believe that means the end of mass "net negative migration". You are right, unfortunately the Govt did give that PR and citizenship) and kiwis will suffer for it and I cannot do anything about it except rant on this forum. Do you think I will be born a Mumbai child, cage prostitute in the next life for my negativity?

@karl - Agreed young generation deserve to be in prosperous economy but is the migrants causing the issues in economy ? Economy fails when Governments don't encourage businesses, production and export. Why you think NZ born kiwis go to other countries ? Relying on taxes, housing speculation, tourism and international students fee monies will not make a better country for our future generations. The free monies (subsidies) which were given away since last year, our future generation is going to pay the price for that. I guess we can put that blame on immigrants too ?

Do you know how many Kiwis work whole year just to save enough money so they can go to those asian countries where they live in cheap and good accommodation, eat cheap and good food, and have sex with those girls (not women) for $1 ? When they come back they happily brag about it and tell with how many girls they have slept?

Since last year NZ born and bred Kiwis who left NZ, migrated to other countries, lived there for years, build their wealth in other countries, haven't contributed to NZ economy and paid any taxes and they came back to NZ when they lost their jobs overseas or they were scared to get infected by COVID. They were welcomed in NZ without any judgment or criticism and they are reaping the benefit or taking advantage of system ? I know people (NZ born kiwis) who lived in Dubai & USA for years because they were getting paid way more there, having lavish lifestyles and they came back to NZ last year.

There is always other side of story. If no one is telling it, doesn't mean it don't exists.

p0s31d0n

Yes. It appears that many Indians who have obtained Citizenship or PR here seem to be more attached to India than NZ. Otherwise why would they board a flight knowing they have Covid, risking other fellow passengers on the flight and the residents of New Zealand ?
Also, since there are no direct flights from India to NZ, the transit points like Dubai, etc are another loophole for Covid to come through.
The whole thing is a mess.

You only need to go watch India play cricket at Eden park to see which country the NZ Indians are more attached to. I dont blame them. I lived in both Australia and the UK but always supported the all blacks when they were in town.

Just wow!

Please tell me any other community who have contributed to NZ like NZ Indians have. https://www.stuff.co.nz/tarana/124625631/world-class-sikh-sports-complex... This is just one example. Have they done with Govt funds or use NZ born kiwi's money to build it ?

Lol

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So much for giving priority to MIQ workers. Dr Shane Reti was right in not getting vaccinated until all front line workers had received their jabs.

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there is no way the bubble will last when they continue to let people in from countries where covid is rampant. If there was another outbreak in NZ it is firmly on the government by allowing this to continue, I thought they had to be covid negative to get on a plane to NZ, clearly they are not with SO many cases, there can't be that many false negative test. Its like a Monty Python show, the PM on TV in Oz saying come on over we clear we have really robust system's, come over and spend your money. Then telling Kiwis, you travel to OZ at your own risk, then the other arm of the government letting hundreds of people in to MIQ each week full of it.

They seem to be picking up COVID in transit in Dubai, Mumbai etc - any of the transit airports between India and NZ.
But, yes, FCM, the negative test certificates are likely to be unreliable or via the underground market.

More chance of catching Covid on Emirates flights from Dubai than wandering around Paris without a mask. The ban should have been implemented a week or maore ago.

Could Emirates sponsoring America's Cup have anything to do with the lax rules on flights from there ?

looks like when we were busy providing a shot in the arm for tourism we overlooked providing one for some of our border workers.surprisingly for a labour govt privilege still gets you priority for vaccine.

People who work in MIQ should be forced to take a vaccination or offered other employment.

That is being implemented also, but apparently 80% have been vaccinated.

80% is a scandalously low figure, after all this time,especially when we have 300000 shots in fridges with no concrete methods to distribute them.
Had my shots through a "lucky dip" and am quite relieved.

It’s not that low, you can’t force people to take it, 80% seemed better than the percentage polls were telling us

It should be mandatory for them to get it, unless there is a legitimate medical reason why they shouldn't.

The pfizer vaccine is no where near proven to prevent transmission. Also it's illegal to force a medical treatment on someone. If you'd read the article you would have seen that other roles will be offered to the intelligent MIQ workers who, well within their rights, did not accept the jab

How is it 'intelligent' not to accept a jab, particularly when your current employment depends on it?

It seems that they did not refuse the jab, it's just that they have not been offered a time and place for it yet, due to even more MOH incompetence.
Your suggestion that only the dumb MIQs have had the jab is sadly a reflection of your own cognitive abilities.

Why give appointment for them to have vaccination. Why can't they be vaccinated at their place of work ? Easy to cover the whole lot in just a few days. Too much coddling going on, aye.

Should have more restriction from high risk countries. As of now, test is required within 72 hours, can also add one between 10 to 14 days as sometimes it reflects late, just like we have post on 3rd day and another on 12th or 13th day - same logic ( have two pre depature test) though now in NZ, think have three test as one on day of arrival.

Another reason is that flight are full and is very difficult to maintain distance, also only one option of flight from India and that is Emirates.

Looks like you'll get your wish.

Shorething, this is not a wish but discussion on what measures government can take as surely they cannot stop flights or people from high risk countries but just like we have minimum two test on reaching NZ, why not have similar two pre departure test as the reason is sometimes it takes time to detect.

Jacinda is right now saying they have halted flights from India.

Extreme measures and to prevent, if needed is good but should be consistent with her actions.

This is a new step taken, which is good as now people only in emergency will travel but I think that is the case but still a new step that can be taken has opened up ( A friend of mine travelled to UK, again was emergency).

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Jacinda has a back-bone - ABOUT TIME! Now apply the same to Brazil, and implement some bloody traffic light system for high risk countries.

Add Germany and the UK as well.

Why add the UK and Germany when the majority of recent covid positive arrivals are from India?

The UK is almost at herd immunity.

Yeah, temporary ban is not bad.

Just sharing as is just a news to us but what happens to people facing the situation : I know a colleague of mine, who went for funeral in January and was returning Mid April, as MIQ are normally full and get return MIQ after 3 months only, now he is screwed for even if ban is lifted after two weeks, will have to do a new booking on miq, which when checking, earliest availability is in July.

He is NZ citizen but still when overseas, still have to pay rent nd other fixed expenses but luckily, will not lose job as understanding but think will be without pay.

Yea thats brutal in that sense - but if you do travel you do run the risk of something like this happening

Well this is called life. And life as we used to know it has changed.

Even Kiwis flying to Aussie under the Bubble will have to exercise 'Flyers Aware/Beware' rule. Fact of life. Everything cannot be guaranteed or assured to go smoothly when such pandemic is raging.

Good

Well.. now treating India like a punching bag. NZ should not treat Citizens or residents coming from India differently. There are so many countries with higher cases per capita. What would happen if they have banned flights from UK or US couple months ago!

This is what I mentioned in my earlier comment that now have opened up a new avenue / step to stop virus from spreading so should be consisten in your action.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/countries-where-coronavirus-ha...

So USA should be next target unless not many people are returning from America.

The Govt is treating people coming from India differently as the majority of cases (17 out of 23 today) tested positive in MIQ are from India.

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Not as easy ro get a fake certificate in the UK!

VeteranGolfer...the very best document forgers mainly come from Bangladesh and India. They are very well regarded by the criminal underworld in Bangkok, Hong Kong, Cambodia, Macau etc for their ability to forge anything to a professional standard. And just like the essential workers here in NZ, they come cheaper as well.

This is incorrect. You get what you pay for. The best is Mossad and then it’s daylight.

Yeah, they fool even the Yanks.

Essen..you may be right there Essen but are you sure Mossad does not employ a few friendlies from South Asia to do the work? Apparently like the Indian document forgers the Mossad do have a pretty big presence in Bangkok as well.

I would not be surprised if Mossad was running a bunch of Indians out front as a false flag operation ;)

Maybe NZ should learn a thing or two from the Israelis. Like how to buy vaccines and deploy them quickly.

The reality is that most of the MIQ cases are from Indian arrivals. Should that just be ignored?
US and UK may be bad there but that are not showing up in high case numbers on arrival in NZ.
It’s a reaction to the facts on the ground not some form of scapegoating.

AP...The USA and the UK are not over represented with scams and scammers, fakes and counterfeits although Bradford and Wolverhampton may be areas that (also) are.

There will be very few, if any NZ permanent residents or citizens in Brazil

Did she read my post? Good decision anyway, well done.

If she was reading the post and also concerned, would have acted on so many other things.

As someone rightly pointed out, she could afford to use India as a punching bag ( though support) so have done it as their have been far too many countries where the level was high like UK, France, Spain, Brazil and what about USA, where is worst.

Well done but this done, done, done should be consistent.

Its because the amount of arrivals from India far exceeds any other country. The other high risk places we don't get anywhere near the amount of arrivals hence the pause.

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Call me a cynic (and I've spent time in India), but I would trust documentation on tests and vaccinations from the UK/USA but not India.

Nothing stopping anyone using UK as a backdoor into NZ.

UK arrivals are safe- yeah right.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9435651/Exposed-Scammer-17-sell...

CWBW..at least the UK have got out of the EU and can now do something to avoid pieces of trash like that guy living in their country. Or maybe you need to go back a little further and say avoid allowing pieces of trash like his parents..... Who raised him and what a mistake it was to allow them to raise him in the UK.

The power of double standards and there's a word for it.

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Thank God they have stopped the stupidity. There has been a huge problem with India arrivals.
But I wish they would be more honest about the possibility of fake clearance certificates. And more honest about the profiles of who the people coming from India are. And more honest about who used New Zealand to then sneak in that back door to Australia.
(And from the recent mental health statistics fiasco, we know the Ministry of Health is prepared to suppress information)
It does not serve us well to be dishonest about what has actually been happening.

It's surprising the news about that statistics isn't a scandal yet. I am confident that much has been suppressed about New Zealand's early response to COVID-19 (or lack thereof) and a Royal Commission in future is paramount.

KH..there has been a huge problem with India arrivals for 10 or 15 years. Just that most are scared to say it.

Fantastic decision by Labor have to save our nation, don't want another lockdown.

Please be careful while opening borders it may cost way more than what you gain from it.

Finally , see they can stop people coming back into this country if they so choose. Close the borders and stop letting infected people into this country putting regular Kiwis at risk. O and forgot to add lets also stop infected people staying in downtown Auckland.

I saw some people talking through a fence to others in quarantine in a central Auckland hotel. About 1.5m of separation. Yes they had masks on, but is this acceptable?

If every man and his dog arriving from India tests positive then why aren't we seeing televised pandemonium and mass graves being dug over there? Is it because covid isn't really that bad for the vast majority of people? Are we sacrificing the economy to chase a phantom bogyman? This sort of chopping and changing of rules, arbitrary bureaucratic decision making is exactly how Argentina got to where it is.

fat pat... because they have mass body, open crematoriums. I actually stumbled across one in Goa years ago. They literally just chuck the bodies into a huge burning pit or did about 20 years ago anyway.

You talk sh$$$ mate.

You talk sh$$$ mate.

Are you suggesting the Indian economy is doing better?

Maybe you could go over there and tell us the real truth, first hand? And if you did, would you wear a mask or not?

The Indian NZ community is apparently furious. The guy on TVNZ 6pm news immediately pulled out the race card! He said the policy is racist. Have a look at how the south asians behave in the UK and you will forsee the future of NZ.

kk..exactly. Suggested viewing. Can't Pay, We Will Take it Away and Bad Tenants, Rogue Landlords. Warning; these programmes may reinforce negative racial stereotyping.

Question- is it racist if an observation of a race is generally true?

Think you mean 'South' Asians.
And yes they can play the 'race' and 'victim' cards well.

Yes I stand corrected. I did mean south asians.

Millions are tumbling out of the global middle class in historic setback. An estimated 150 million slipped down the economic ladder in 2020, the first pullback in almost three decades. https://bloomberg.com/features/2021-
Link

Should have happened months ago:

Fake Covid test results, vaccine certificates being offered on Dark Web starting Rs 1,800

https://www.indiatvnews.com/business/news-fake-covid-test-results-vaccin...

Yes it should have happened months ago and it would have if we had a government and ministry alert and proactive. Not so long ago the PM was sideswiped on learning that MOH’s advice on their testing of frontline border staff was not only false, it was in direct defiance of the instructions that government had issued. Now they are bumbling around not knowing who has been vaccinated and who is meant to be vaccinated. These are the bureaucrats overseeing our hospitals. These are the bureaucrats who thought nothing of blowing $37 mill or so of over budget on their august Wellington headquarters. These are the bureaucrats that are running DHBs and medical staff from Northland to Southland ragged with directives from rooms without windows driven only by financial directives from treasury. God defend New Zealand then because this lot are only capable of incompetence.

There wouldn't be Covid19 if it didn't leak from Wuhan lab. Your communist party killed almost 3 million people.

Bloodymigrant, the world is 15 months into COVID. Playing the CCP card in April 2021 doesn't justify India's incompetency in pandemic management or Indians' fake vaccine certificates or 17 out of 23 positive cases. Indian problems result in this temporary suspension. Stop making excuses, get things fixed so flights from Indian can resume.

Like many other people commenting here, I am part of a team of 5 mils. We have persevered so much. So show some respects.

Wow. I can’t believe you just said that out loud. You are just single handedly reinforcing the negative stereotypes others have. Perhaps stop scoring own goals by attacking people and focus on the NZ Government’s policy?

National's Plan seems very sensible. Government should seriously consider it.

“Emirates will temporarily shut off flights from Dubai to Auckland from tomorrow morning to travellers who have been in India in the past 14 days”

Emirates doing the hard yards on behalf of NZ government – nice.

Thanks Emirates – appreciate your stance – keep us safe – I’ve given my all, as I think have many – and at times not really that easy.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-emirates-introduces-n...

I see Emirates have jumped the gun and cut off flights from tomorrow morning to anyone that's been in India for the last 14 days. Perhaps they quietly made that decision prior to Jacinda's and forced her hand? Perhaps tipped her the wink that that's what they were about to do giving her the chance to make it appear the decision was hers?

Perhaps we’ll “be kind’ and suggest “in tandem”.

Whatever – I’m finally delighted to see something of a spine appearing in some of the decision making from this government.

Yes more like it, this government cannot think for themselves and they never had time to even form a working group.

@Bloodymigrant: Sometimes it's not nice to have the negative aspects of one's culture pointed out, European NZers endure this on a regular basis every time Maori/Treaty issues are raised. What we do is we try and learn from past mistakes and improve, rather than deny the problem exists and throw the "racist" card out there.

If you and your fellow countrymen took this same approach, maybe you will see some improvements in your home country.

India and fake certs....India certainly has a large group of ethically challenged, but they also have a massive population. In my personal experience the only people that have requested a kickback or bribe for business were recent arrivals from India.

That said some I have met and work with are awesome. As are their kids, who a lot are also awesome at cricket due to the time the family's put into that sport. Yay NZ future cricket teams.

Based on my sporting bias I must be rasist though.

It's not really that Indians are 'ethically challenged'. It's a different culture with different norms. I've been there twice and I quickly learned the meaning of baksheesh. Google it. It is how business is done. Everyone pays someone, and the transaction in what ever form it takes is called a 'gift'. We even got asked to pay baksheesh by the immigration officer at Calcutta airport. We just refused, which was awkward but he soon realised he didn't need a scene. In NZ we call it corruption.

Totally agree. I've also paid baksheesh a number of times - to get my wife and I local driver's licences, as well as get a plane ticket Kiwis may be surprised, but when you live there, it becomes the norm.

Is banning people from India or implying Indian people travelling to NZ are the real problem?
"Health ministry noted that it was thought that most people who arrived positive caught the virus either travelling through India or en route".
En route for all means transit at Dubai airport onto an Emirates flight which travels daily to New Zealand from Dubai. Is Dubai airport a hotspot for cross-infection?"
Dubai airport does offer rapid Covid testing for a fee!!

Don't believe the National party's false profit, he who chases cars, C Bishop.