Vaccinations, - where are we at?

A snapshot of how New Zealand's vaccination drive compares to a range of other countries

7th Oct 21, 10:02am by Gareth Vaughan

The V-word has become the word of the moment. Yes, that's vaccination or vaccines.

The push is on to get as many New Zealanders as possible vaccinated against Covid-19. Those following the daily statistics from the Ministry of Health might be able to rattle the latest numbers off without even looking them up.

But where are we at now vis-à-vis other countries?

The Our World in Data website offers great comparison chart tools. I've used these to make up the three charts below. You can add whichever countries you want to the charts.

What I've chosen to do is include countries we traditionally compare ourselves to such as Australia, the US and UK, fellow small countries heralded for their vaccine rollouts in Denmark and Israel, and some Asian countries that, like NZ, gained international recognition for their strong response to Covid-19 last year. These include Taiwan, China, South Korea and Vietnam, with Japan thrown in for good measure.

The results are now quite interesting.

In terms of people who've had at least one vaccine dose, NZ is now ahead of the US and just behind Israel. When the measure switches to those who're fully vaccinated, NZ still has ground to make up on most of the other countries in my chart. However, with many Kiwis who've had one dose due for their second in coming weeks, NZ ought to progress up this chart.

That said, there's still work to do to reach the 90% goal. Meanwhile, some people in countries such as the US, who were among the first to vaccinate as hundreds of thousands of people died in the pandemic, are now getting booster shots.

Back in NZ we are getting to grips with the likelihood that Auckland's Delta outbreak, which has already reached the Waikato, may spread further and is unlikely to be eradicated anytime soon. This means our clear and decisive level system, and all those months at restriction free level 1, are a thing of the past.

Some people who've been emboldened by having no Covid in the community are now nervous, and the "live with it" supporters are now realising living with Covid means ongoing restrictions. We are thus in a muddle through period, at least in Auckland, the likes of which many other countries have experienced ad nauseam since March 2020.

The Ministry of Health says, as of Tuesday, 85% of people 12 and over in Auckland had received at least one vaccine dose, with 54% having received two.

The Ministry of Health table below, is for the whole country, and is as of 11:59pm on October 5.

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117 Comments

by chebbo | 7th Oct 21, 10:40am 1633556447

Of course, while this government is focused on playing numbers games in a public urination match with the rest of the world, studies continue to show (and frankly so does common sense) that focusing on society's most vulnerable groups is the key to any successful public health policy.

by andreas_od | 7th Oct 21, 11:55am 1633560954

Where are we at? We are at the mid-ages where anti-vexers will soon to be self-isolated from anti-anti-vaxers given the comments in all relevant topics. It is like new type of church. While I am not anti-laxer I wholeheartedly support everyone's choice.

Billions have been pushed into housing market within last year but not in the ICU capacity , need I say more.
More threats are coming by the day against those who don't want to inject the vaccine which official (not conspiracy) clinical trials are to be finished only in mid 2022 .
Billions are put into anti-anti-vax campaign (vaccine passports , apps, legislation changes etc etc) , but no news about increasing ICU capacities again

This is where are we at right now.

What is the problem, give everyone 6 months to get vaccinated if they want and open up after. Otherwise there will be the same as with housing - you got enormous dept to get into the "house" or you are ditched , Fomo here. Get vaccinated and then prove with semi-annunal boosters your loyalty to the church or get ditched . Disgusting !!!!!!!!!!!!

Disgusting !!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. If you read this comment and agree with what I am saying but don't upvote , that is probably fear is driving you . And this is also the answer to the question "where are we at ?"

by Pa1nter | 7th Oct 21, 12:39pm 1633563589

I guess the current approach is incorporating realities a bit more.

Time to get vaccinated : 15 mins

Time to build and staff greater ICU capacity: years

by Matua | 7th Oct 21, 1:01pm 1633564916

Completely agree, not enough is being made of our limited ICU capacity and the time it takes for that to actually be increased. It's not a case of just throwing money at it to build capacity it is all about training staff up.

by Dale Smith | 7th Oct 21, 2:10pm 1633569015

So that completely explains that why before Covid, we only had 1/2 the number of ICU beds of Aussie and about 1/4 that of Germany?

by Fluffybunny | 7th Oct 21, 7:00pm 1633586444

Emergency quick smart icu capacity focused on a single disiese of which there are millions of recent well publicised cases and treatment paths to follow what to do.

1st step, Lock up the vulnerable (cancer patients etc) who will require more special care.

2nd step, With 1 billion dollars you could build and equip a perfectly functional military hospital in 2 seconds flat, and they've had over a year to provide an army of student nurses a years crash course in how to treat one allilment.

Yeah it's a bit of work to organise, so if your government has a chronic history of not being able to deliver anything, then certainly its easier to just lock down the country indefinatly and keep the printer running to compensate.

You want another 2 years of this? Time to change our approach.

by Yvil | 7th Oct 21, 2:21pm 1633569679

"Billions have been pushed into housing market within last year but not in the ICU capacity , need I say more"

Yes please, explain what you mean?

by andreas_od | 7th Oct 21, 2:41pm 1633570909

... instead of housing billions are needed in health system removing training, capacity and shortage issues, in education (from early education to higher) system, in the public transportation industry etc etc And in the end billions would be better directed into the efforts to reduce business reliance on the housing as an "underpinning asset" . Thanks for off-topic question

by Property_Wizard | 7th Oct 21, 12:58pm 1633564710

I agree. If they are going down this slippery slope of mandating vaccines, are they going to mandate that no one can smoke cigs, or that at least 90% of the population has to below obese?? All these things have a large impact on the severity of Covid, yet the vaccine is the so called silver bullet.

by Matua | 7th Oct 21, 1:06pm 1633565196

That's a great idea to ban cigarettes we should definitely do that as well. Obesity is harder as would need to happen over a longer time, there are no reliable measures of what is obese (BMI is massively flawed), and physiological differences which make it harder on some individuals but fixing that problem as well would be great!

The vaccine is a silver bullet in that sense given the above are not going to happen and does significantly decrease the chance of hospitalisation

by kiwiana02 | 7th Oct 21, 2:23pm 1633569797

Governments worldwide have mandated no smoking in public buildings etc because your smoking negatively affects others, as well as placing a burden on health systems.

Similarly, you being unvaccinated puts others (including vulnerable people) at much higher risk of getting infected, particularly in indoor spaces and large gatherings. Vaccine mandates will help to reduce that. why should we stay home coz you don’t want to get vaccinated?

by Noncents | 7th Oct 21, 10:54am 1633557295

While hardly scientific it appears that many of the countries vaccination rates taper out at an approximate level relative to the voting rates.

I wonder if it is just general apathy? rather than a strong anti-vax sentiment.

by npc | 7th Oct 21, 11:16am 1633558579

I haven't come across anyone that is unvaccinated due to apathy. Credit where it's due, the government has made it easy to get vaccinated. I also only know a single person that is unvaccinated due to anti-vaxx sentiment. Most are fully vaccinated, they just don't want comirnaty

It's a mix of not being worried about Covid (young and healthy people mostly) and having concerns about mRNA vaccine safety and efficacy. I think we'll see another few percentage points get vaccinated when Novavax becomes available.

by Theoracle | 7th Oct 21, 11:31am 1633559462

I was waiting for novavax but no word on when it's going to be available.

by Tigadee | 7th Oct 21, 11:57am 1633561059

Apparently it will be prioritised for less fortunate countries and only after for developed countries, so it will probably be available to us from mid-2022.

by npc | 7th Oct 21, 11:58am 1633561098

Q1 2022. NZ is going to use it as a booster.

by Theoracle | 7th Oct 21, 4:34pm 1633577645

That's what we've been told but no one knows for sure. I emailed ministry of health.

Blank.

No information from govt ĺackeys.

by davef | 7th Oct 21, 12:07pm 1633561664

There's info at https://www.sciencemediacentre.co.nz/2021/09/14/what-do-we-know-about-t… and using the links from there it seems (as noted above) Q1 2022. Hearing on news that modelling suggests vaccination rates might mean Auckland can't move to level 2 for a further 8 weeks (and by extension other parts of the country as they get covid). With luck the peak bad period is perhaps 6 weeks from now, and in a few months when Novovax arrives hopefully things will be manageable ?

Other countries seem to have moved on after many difficult months. Hopefully the early containment will mean the painful period here is relatively short.

by kpnuts | 7th Oct 21, 12:25pm 1633562715

please dont give the government any credit for its vaccination program or strategy - it deserves none

We started after almost everyone else

We went at a snails pace for months

We had over 90 PHO's ready able and willing to vaccinate - only 10 a week were allowed to start

We already had a fantastic vaccination system in place -- our GP practices, clinics all ready to go - but did not use it until the delta outbreak

It has always been easy to get vaccinated in NZ -- our infant vaccination rates are extremely high - and a huge chunk of the population already got the flu vaccination each year

Our Maori, Pasifika and Asian health services already had the skills and access to the harder to reach groups -- we only had to provide them the additional funding for the work and Vaccines - they already do a magnificant job of reaching out-

We had a tried and tested system -with experienced practitioners in place last year -- we only needed the vaccines, and the government to say yes please lets vaccinate -- and it would have been done and available to almost all

the gimmicks - shotbro bus and a few other initiatives are great -- but they are gimmicks more than anything else

by Matua | 7th Oct 21, 1:11pm 1633565500

I think that's unfair in that we didn't have the actual vaccine volume to enable a faster roll out, as shown by the push out to the 6 week period between vaccines being required when it really ramped up.

That's why only 10 a week of the 90 PHOs were able to start, get your facts straight

by Foxglove. | 7th Oct 21, 1:46pm 1633567603

Not unfair. Quite accurate. The government has not produced one bit of hard evidence that vaccine(s) were not available earlier. In fact Pfizer were waiting and waiting for the government to get an order in. In refuting ex PM Key’s assertion that NZ would not pay an optimum price Pfizer stated deliveries had been expected to be required in March. Yet in 11 April’s interview (Tame) PM Adern was adamant NZ had not needed to order because there were zero cases. And worse, when she said that, the government was aware of the opening of travel to Australia, meaning NZ’s border became only as good as theirs, and that a new variant ( subsequently called Delta) was raging in India, already up to 150,000 cases daily, only 10 hours flight distant.

by JKB | 7th Oct 21, 11:16am 1633558614

Be interested to see how the vaccine efficacy compares. China has primarily rolled out a traditional vaccine vrs western countries mRNA

by Theoracle | 7th Oct 21, 11:31am 1633559509

Well based on a Thai friends reports from family in Thailand, tons of people in Thailand have died from the Chinese Sinovac vaccine.

by xingmowang | 7th Oct 21, 11:38am 1633559907

if that were true, BBC and CNN would eagerly report such great news to smear China.

Where are their report on that? Links?

by Theoracle | 7th Oct 21, 4:32pm 1633577560

No links sorry, anecdotal based on her family and friends direct reports from Thailand.

by npc | 7th Oct 21, 11:59am 1633561183

Similar reports from Phillipines. It's a bad vaccine, not as effective as Western developed vaccines.

by pacifica | 7th Oct 21, 12:41pm 1633563686

Well based on Earth friends reports from family on Earth, (as well as scientific evidence, investigative reports, medical records), millions more people have died directly due to the virus, not a weak association to their vaccination date that does not stand up to causal investigation. Might be something a million times more significant than a friends cousin blog post they read online. But hey I also heard that Nicki Minaj's cousin's friend's balls somewhere in SA became larger sometime after being vaccinated and not because of a STI. Why not test that theory since it has the same amount (or even more) evidence than your own.

by xingmowang | 7th Oct 21, 11:20am 1633558804

Chile is a country that had excellent response to COVID and a country is very comparable to NZ but often ignored!

Check out its data here (https://news.google.com/covid19/map?hl=en-NZ&mid=%2Fm%2F01p1v&gl=NZ&cei…)

To my knowledge, Chile uses the Sinopharm vaccine from China.

On the other hand, countries that only uses Pfizer vaccine and had similar vaccine rate (75-80%) did not quite reach the level that Chile has done.

Need I say more?

by donny11 | 7th Oct 21, 11:26am 1633559181

Chile have 37,500 deaths

Need I say more?

by Foxglove. | 7th Oct 21, 12:05pm 1633561501

Chile and the majority of other nations did not have the advantage of NZ and its period of zero cases, due to the success of the lockdown and isolation. That, and our government too, was quite rightly broadly applauded worldwide. The government failed to capitalise on that advantage. NZ’s vaccination commenced far too late and in far too inadequate volume. That opinion too is worldwide and now known to be the reality by the majority of New Zealanders, with the exception of. The MoH, the current government, the Prime Minister and department, and her strident praetorian guard.

by pacifica | 7th Oct 21, 12:28pm 1633562912

Indeed Chile did not have the ocean borders NZ has and it shared land borders and migration with countries that have poorer medical systems. If NZ had any land borders we would have been overrun because our govt already acts months late and with plans decades behind or even contrary to best practice.

by FCM | 7th Oct 21, 12:34pm 1633563270

pacifica we don't have a plan, it was elimination only, they did'nt have a B, C or D, they had 18 months but not one plan on what if. Just watch Chris Hipkins try and lie, he is like a possum in the headlights. Meanwhile Jacinda is much better she lies and smiles at the same time trying to throw us off, of course that works with most of the media she has at her press conferences.

by Foxglove. | 7th Oct 21, 12:44pm 1633563846

And that disingenuousness has got NZ to a point that is not being debated and that is firstly what is the government’s decision as to the requisite percentage of vaccinations. Secondly what is the government’s policy to be if the vaccinations fall short of that or if that level in itself, is insufficient to remove the threat of hospital services being overwhelmed.

by pacifica | 7th Oct 21, 12:51pm 1633564281

Hospital services were overwhelmed before covid. We need a darker code than black because many of our hospitals are at that state often enough already. How about code black hole where too many humans go in but cannot get out alive?

by Fluffybunny | 7th Oct 21, 7:07pm 1633586845

The plan will be (and is) to keep us locked up. Things that get us unlocked with delta in the world require industrial organisation (more hospital capacity) or accepting more deaths (not happening with St Ardern at the helm)

by Foxglove. | 7th Oct 21, 8:19pm 1633591168

Given what the government is not saying, that looks like the only plan on the table. That is, if there was an alternative then it would be being published. Delta is creeping down through NZ. The only answer this government can summon up, is to lock us all up in our homes. Ex PM Key was a right, a team of 5 million hermits.

by pacifica | 7th Oct 21, 12:48pm 1633564095

It does show up NZs fascination with cult of personality in our general public when it comes to politics, science and just about everything else. Just sad so many fall for the halo effect and the belief that more wealth must equal more moral ethics when the opposite is more often the case. Pity. I was hoping for more science & maths education with all the money that gets wasted on STEM education reviews and consultations that lead more to further degradation of STEM education. Good news for get rich quick retail investors though because the market in placebo treatments is booming.

by MortgageBelt | 7th Oct 21, 11:32am 1633559558

If 90% of NZers were all double vaccinated right now - then what level of social and business restrictions would be in place?

A semi-permanent Level 2 or 2.5?

And what level of serious sickness and death rate could the public tolerate once 90% vax is reached? (if ever).

by FCM | 7th Oct 21, 11:43am 1633560185

That MB is called a plan, something businesses and the public have been asking the government for, if we get to your 80% target what freedoms will we have, or is it just LD after LD everytime it flares up somewhere.

by kpnuts | 7th Oct 21, 12:37pm 1633563457

We already tolerate over 6000 deaths relating to Heart conditions every year, over 9000 from cancer and 600-1000 from normal flu. If the 60 billion covid fund had been invested in more ICU beds, ICU training, MRI scanners and staff to operate these -- we could be preventing a massive number of these deaths - Imagine all 50yr olds getting a 3 yr full MRI scan to check for early stage cancers, or heart blockages ......

with the advance in understanding Covid from the early days of the outbreak 18 months ago, there are now very effective treatments that can be administered to prevent people becoming more seriously unwell, long before they need ICU care or to be on a ventilator - these will only increase in their effectiveness and efficacy - TBH there is too much money in a covid pill for this not to happen- the drug companies are very focussed in getting these to market asap!

Now that we understand this -- and of our 1400 cases we have had two deaths only -- a 91yr old too ill in the first place to be treated or put on a ventalator and now another individual with very significant underlying health conditions - but who managed to fight for over 40 days despite this - we know that far far fewer people will die from Covid than from cancer or heart conditions - and maybe just maybe we would save a lot more lives if we focussed on the early identification and treatment of these rather than this continued massive expense on Covid -

Its costing a billion a week - be it in supports or lost revenue, and then the massive mental health costs of lockdowns, uncertainty and almost a paralysing of the country --

time to move on - 6 weeks to allwo anyone who wants a vaccine that opportunity -- then just remove ALL restrictions on our freedoms and civil liberties!

by streetwise | 7th Oct 21, 1:07pm 1633565221

Isn't hindsight a wonderful faculty? And foresight could be even more wonderful, especially if anybody had it.

by donny11 | 7th Oct 21, 12:49pm 1633564158

If you read Shaun Hendy's paper. My take on is it is to maintain an elimination strategy we would need to.

1) Be vaccinating 90% of the entire population every 4-6 months to stop the "waning effect" from setting in.

2) Be permanently at level 2.5 to limit interactions with each other

3) Wear masks everywhere inside (except for own home)

4) Mandatory scan in's everywhere for contract tracing

5) Have a 1 week self isolation period post travel (presumably with an ankle bracelet)

6) Have purpose built quarantine facilities where we constantly place infected & close contacts.

by Brutus Iscariot | 7th Oct 21, 12:54pm 1633564441

Haha, sounds like a great life. Why don't the Branch Covidians just implement those protocols for themselves, leaving the rest of us to enjoy human contact and interaction?

by donny11 | 7th Oct 21, 1:08pm 1633565301

Indeed it sounds like a dystopian zoo. The worst part is I imagine after you get your ass hauled into quarantine a few times you will basically stop going places & restrict your interactions. As the risk/return of socialising with people will be to high.

Fortunately I have USA/Europe passports, further my wife & I have occupations that are well sort after here & abroad. We will also get paid more abroad Think I will hightail it out of here if we keep going in this direction.

by Shoreman | 7th Oct 21, 11:37am 1633559879

To many anti-vaxx's out there to achieve 90%.

We just need a date to work to not a % !

by sparrow | 7th Oct 21, 11:53am 1633560807

We should easily get to 90% of the eligible population, the anti vaxxers are loud (and appear to have infested this site) but are small in number.

The problem is the children under 12 years who can't be vaccinated as yet, but make up a significant percentage of the population.

by jerry_NZ | 7th Oct 21, 11:19pm 1633601946

They should not touch kinds under 12. Period.

by dago | 8th Oct 21, 9:53am 1633640006

They shouldn't be touching kids period..of any age. It's utterly disgraceful.

by pacifica | 7th Oct 21, 12:13pm 1633562004

Herd immunity does not work based on dates. The population does not magically have herd immunity when your favourite holidays come around. Even worse without significant herd immunity many of those vaccinated will still catch the virus and be permanently disabled and die because the immune system is faulty for a significant number of the population even at the best of times (for a high proportion the immune system can be actively harmful as well and covid can impair immune system responses causing further issues). Unfortunately for the current virus the necessary percentage needing to be vaccinated for herd immunity is well above 95%.

It seems more likely the NZ medical and hospital systems will be significantly stretched (more so than before the pandemic) which means even more significant disablement and death for non covid related issues as necessary surgeries and specialist treatment is cut. NZ already lost one of it's only allergy and immunology centres (the one serving the largest population) from covid pulling out the immunologists. It will not get better for an ageing population needing more elective surgeries but having them culled due to covid smashing the health system. Be prepared for more severe disablement of mobility earlier and more treatable cancers, unrelated to diet and exercise, grow into terminal cases especially for those where early detection is difficult (e.g. the SI has seen such severe crippling of its preventative testing and detection capabilities prior to covid that it was a national shame and lead to many of the health reviews & the DHB reform recommendations). Even vaccination against viruses that cause cancer and very visual significant harm, (with extremely high sudden death rates) have dropped so we have far more at risk of spread amongst viruses outside of covid 19 and mutations. Time to prepare plans for overseas surgery and treatment when you need (and with ageing bodies we will all need it regardless).

by Tigadee | 7th Oct 21, 11:42am 1633560125

"This pandemic will become a ENDemic,"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDRjIuC2eZE

by mikekirk29 | 7th Oct 21, 11:54am 1633560890

Crux here is % in S Auckland fully vaccinated who are 18 and over. Media do not cite this prob because DH don’t itemise it. Under 18 is irrelevant because their serious infections and deaths are infintisimal small. Quoting rates for Auckland or NZ is not getting to the problem I am afraid. This group will not likely get to 70% before year end so what are rest of Auckland to do meanwhile?

by Brutus Iscariot | 7th Oct 21, 12:57pm 1633564662

Essentially we are being held hostage by the Maori caucus. Fact is, over 60 vacc rates are very good across all demographics. The woeful rates are in the Maori under 50s, and to a lesser extent Pasifika under 50s.

The government are simply worried about the optics of having a couple of 30 year old obese, diabetic citizens from those demographics ending up in hospital and dying.

by Matua | 7th Oct 21, 1:19pm 1633565969

That's simply not true Maori and Pasifica rates are above european rates in younger age groups

by Nzdano | 7th Oct 21, 5:50pm 1633582235

It's true for Maori.

Not true for Pacifica.

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-no…

Young Maori uptake is abysmal

by Brock Landers | 7th Oct 21, 11:56am 1633560990

Isn't it fun watching that smug "covid-free" national ego melt away.

by printer8 | 7th Oct 21, 12:46pm 1633564014

Brock

Smug attitude.

Is it also fun watching that smug "homeownership" national ego melt away then?

by muzled | 7th Oct 21, 12:52pm 1633564347

Why?

Honest question, I"m really not sure why that is fun.

by Pa1nter | 7th Oct 21, 12:52pm 1633564357

Not as sad as how long you waited to be able to say that.

It did what it needed to do and saved thousands of lives. A good thing. What'd you do today that was any good?

by Final Account | 7th Oct 21, 4:19pm 1633576740

Wasn't really smug i don't think, I was more thankful that we could all see our families and friends for the last year, and enjoy doing things while the rest of the world dealt with the shit.

Good on you Blanders, hopefully you are not too harshly affected by what is coming for you. I wish you all the best.

by younger than most | 7th Oct 21, 12:00pm 1633561213

Where we are at is at least 66 deaths following the vaccine..

Course, only 1 linked

That's science and your single source of truth right there

by pacifica | 7th Oct 21, 12:19pm 1633562345

Factually and provably incorrect, your comment also demonstrates less educated than most. A pity as it is a sign of our trash education system with its disregard for basic maths and science.

by younger than most | 7th Oct 21, 12:50pm 1633564211

And which part of the Medsafe report do you not agree with?

by pacifica | 7th Oct 21, 1:12pm 1633565576

Reporting the number of anything is incorrect at best as most should never have been recorded at all if there was no investigation and not even a small correlation but here we are. I agree with the data, knowing the data has critical flaws it exists, and investigations behind it but and here is the key I also have access to the adverse event reports that reach a much broader series of issues. You can literally blame getting drunk, using meth and then having a car accident on the vaccine and they still have to record it even though the relationship between the two events is non existent. Even worse most people will have a nocebo response or and here is the crux an event occurring in their lives that occurs even months after vaccination that has no relationship with vaccination that preceded it e.g. food poisoning, being severely diabetic and not managing that are still recorded in adverse event logs.

Even I can put through random logs that still must end up on legitimate adverse reaction with vaccination reports because it is a system that reports any musings or life events you might have regardless of effect on health. Of the actual causal investigations most find vaccination is safer than eating NZ food and going outside in a NZ suburb. The adverse events reports are flawed because most people cannot understand ideas like correlation, causation, nocebo, placebo, unrelated, unsubstantiated, etc. The key to adverse event reporting is access to report and who decides what goes into a report; a system based on humans, humans with known errors and critical flaws, humans with severe bias and in a country with exceedingly poor science & health education. I am surprised in this day and age more trolls have not made it yet to creating fraudulent reports and reporting more deaths as it was easy for me to make a report and I do not have direct access to the reporting system. But then again we do live with a system that is highly nepotistic and tribal, so most randoms cannot just make any submission.

by ShoreThing | 7th Oct 21, 1:15pm 1633565721

That's a lot of words to not prove anything. You are just another person on the internet that can look right at actual data provided by reputable sources and deny up and down that it's true because it doesn't agree with your feelings. Hilarious that you are the one bagging the education system for producing the same.

by pacifica | 7th Oct 21, 1:34pm 1633566898

You seem to mistake access to the data and adverse reaction reporting system and a statistical analysis with feelings. I find you completely hilarious but have no feelings one way or another to your beliefs because I truly do not care if your family and friends live or die or become disabled. But I do know that as a business owner, health service staff around me will not be allowed if they are not vaccinated as they present a clear scientifically higher risk to clients. I know that our data collection and education systems fail hard at science as you so clearly prove and that even though you ascribe to having education you very poorly demonstrate any of it. Also I have outlined a severe data collection flaw which would have been useful for your arguments but you missed completely because of me pushing your emotional buttons. To the point you seem to think certificates with no experience or authenticity demonstrate that you must be skilled to comment on very specific medical information. It is even sadder you don't know what specialization means. But hey this doctorate or two in two unrelated subjects just commented on a daily blog with more qualifications than you so they must be smarter than you. Come back with another hyper defensive comment I dare you because I do enjoy the but hurt (sanitized) comedy.

by ShoreThing | 7th Oct 21, 1:39pm 1633567160

So you're a highly educated, successful business owning person with access to information that the rest of us don't have that proves the Medsafe reports are inaccurate, but you won't share that with us. Let me guess, Bill Gates is also your uncle and he could backtrace my IP?

by pacifica | 7th Oct 21, 2:01pm 1633568514

You seem to forget global companies have literally thousands of employees resulting in tens of thousands relatives, each. If you are ignorant to medical companies having offices in NZ, (and the ease at which a health company can be setup in NZ with less than $1000 in the bank) one could only assume you are ignorant of basic business matters and major investment companies in NZ at all. Is that why you are on this site duckling? Does simple business knowledge and looking up a company website confuse you. Just wait till you learn the requirements for the cf of the health grant money award systems.

by younger than most | 7th Oct 21, 2:49pm 1633571352

Lol

Keep on digging old timer

by younger than most | 7th Oct 21, 1:02pm 1633564926

And BTW, in answer to your query, I have both an honours and a Masters degree in different disciplines... but yip, I'm sure it was tougher back in yr day, what with those stone tablets et al

by pacifica | 7th Oct 21, 1:17pm 1633565850

Hahaha oh wow you think those are important. HA good lord only a master level in this day and age where they can be acquired like candy. Perhaps you should go back and get a couple of doctorates as well. They are not worth the paper they are printed on but you would have better self brags with the new title and all.

by younger than most | 7th Oct 21, 2:51pm 1633571468

It was you that resorted to personal abuse when you couldn't read Medsafe data....

Sometimes a bit of study helps it seems..

by ShoreThing | 7th Oct 21, 12:57pm 1633564673

Factually and provably incorrect

No, it's taken directly from the Medsafe report. Every slander in your comment is much better directed at you.

https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/safety-report-29.asp

by pacifica | 7th Oct 21, 1:20pm 1633566003

The key to adverse event reporting is access to report and who decides what goes into a report; a system based on humans, humans with known errors and critical flaws, humans with severe bias and in a country with exceedingly poor science & health education. You can literally blame getting drunk, using meth and then having a car accident on the vaccine and they still have to record it even though the relationship between the two events is non existent. Even worse most people will have a nocebo response or and here is the crux an event occurring in their lives that occurs even months after vaccination that has no relationship with vaccination that preceded it e.g. food poisoning, being severely diabetic and not managing that are still recorded in adverse event logs. Even I can put through random logs that still must end up on legitimate adverse reaction with vaccination reports for Pfizer & Medsafe because it is a system that reports any musings or life events you might have regardless of effect on health.

by ShoreThing | 7th Oct 21, 1:22pm 1633566162

Surely someone as highly educated and enlightened as yourself would understand that when you claim something is provably false, you provide the proof that shows it is false. Not a tirade that boils down to "trust me bro, honest".

by pacifica | 7th Oct 21, 1:34pm 1633566850

look up the adverse reaction reports for NZ and other countries, perform analysis and literature reviews on the scientific reports. Come back in a couple of months and reply to this comment. Yeah somehow I don't see you reading even one, let alone investigating and analyzing data. You come off as someone without the reading skill for adverse reaction reports as they have been available this whole time yet you were unable to look them up.

by ShoreThing | 7th Oct 21, 1:35pm 1633566959

Cool, so you still aren't going to provide any proof to refute his provably false claim? I'm beginning to get the impression you can't.

by pacifica | 7th Oct 21, 1:51pm 1633567880

Publicly available data for months on multiple sources. You can access it already. In case you didn't realize I am testing your ability to source, read and comprehend medical data (so far you are not doing all that great since you refuse to read publicly available reports).

by GV 27 | 8th Oct 21, 7:15am 1633630511

"I am testing your ability to find data" sounds a lot like "There isn't anything to back up what I say and I don't understand how a null hypothesis works but I'm going to question everyone else's intellect".

God, I love the internet.

by younger than most | 7th Oct 21, 1:27pm 1633566468

https://thebfd.co.nz/2021/10/05/open-letter-to-jacinda-re-methodologica…

Indeed

by pacifica | 7th Oct 21, 1:48pm 1633567701

Hah oh gods it literally is a blog post with someone who has an unrelated doctorate and participates in medical fraud... I did not expect you to find an example of the worst sort of reference but here it is a blog post with your poor understanding of how bad a reference it is. Did you bother to do any reading for those masters or did you just sleepwalk through the whole thing. I know I did a bit through mine but at least I knew what constituted good, bad and ludicrous references. If you are taking requests can the next reference you post include a famous celebrity and an animal.

by pacifica | 7th Oct 21, 1:59pm 1633568344

Protip about your reference: "IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER: All comments on this website are purely the opinions of the individual commenters and do not represent the views of commenters’ employers, friends, clubs they may belong to, and so on. Commenters’ views also do not represent those of the website owner, contributors, moderators or anyone else."

by Nzdano | 7th Oct 21, 5:55pm 1633582541

Your point being?

Did you expect the usual rate of death to stop following the vaccine?

Is the vaccine supposed to work for car accidents and cancer?

by southmotian | 7th Oct 21, 12:14pm 1633562094

I'd be more interested to hear how our treatment protocol development is going. Is it going? Are current NZ protocols for treatment of a hospitalised patient published? It seems there are many examples to learn from, with the success of places like Uttar Pradesh (Indians most populous state), in virtually eliminating covid largely without vaccination. Being that their protocol uses existing medications and vitamins with longstanding safety records we should surely be at least running trials of this and any other promising looking treatment plans from overseas? Before widespread use their trials were so successful they were stopped early as it was deemed unethical to deny the control group treatment. Our obsession with vaccines seems to have prevented any meaningful discussion of other treatments whether complimentary to or as an alternative to vaccination.

by younger than most | 7th Oct 21, 12:12pm 1633561968

You appear to be under the misconception that this is about health outcomes!

No no no no

There is literally NOTHING that can prevent ICU visits but the official vaccine

by southmotian | 7th Oct 21, 12:23pm 1633562637

I can only hope be proven wrong and the vaccine only narrative now doesn't mean no consideration is given to other treatments in parallel.

by younger than most | 7th Oct 21, 1:13pm 1633565610

Yip

Plenty looking but not in nz it seems

https://m.jpost.com/health-and-wellness/aspirin-lowers-risk-of-covid-ne… https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/indias-ivermectin-blackout-secret-re…

by southmotian | 7th Oct 21, 1:28pm 1633566520

Guess we'll have to wait until these medications are repackaged into something that can be patented before treatments are worth discussing.

by pacifica | 7th Oct 21, 2:21pm 1633569709

Hmm all those covid patients going to hospital must just be having the food only as by your comment no other medical treatment or support is being given to them. Good news you have been proven wrong, patients with covid are receiving medical treatment and support (often in greater priority than patients with other concerning diseases), hence the cancelling of surgeries and ICU bed shortage. It goes without saying each patients individual treatment and medical dosage will vary understandably with their medical condition e.g. patients of different weights, ages, with heart issues, immune conditions, existing medication etc etc. Better yet the vaccination is not a treatment, (core misunderstanding there the vaccination is a preventative measure, think of it as a predefensive wall/tactic for the immune system and treats nothing); if you have the virus and need treatment then a covid vaccination would not be used in replacement because the covid vaccination is not symptom recovery support. Hence why for many vaccinations you would be discouraged from taking them during the period you were sick and showing symptoms (aka you already lost the fight and are just picking up the pieces).

by southmotian | 7th Oct 21, 3:13pm 1633572796

Have found some curent treatment info on moh website, genuinely interested to see what is offered currently.

by dago | 8th Oct 21, 9:59am 1633640355

It's not widely known but MoH does have a form of human ivermectin that can be prescribed in NZ. It was detailed in an OIA a while back. They just don't want you to know that.

by pacifica | 7th Oct 21, 12:22pm 1633562550

Uttar Pradesh is anything but a success. Unless you are the reaper.

by southmotian | 7th Oct 21, 12:28pm 1633562890

Initially yes and things were looking terrible, when they introduced their current testing and largely home treatment program around the middle of this year the data speaks for itself. Of a population of 230 million they now have less daily cases than little old NZ and barely any deaths. 40% of the state has recently been declared covid free.

by Nzdano | 7th Oct 21, 6:46pm 1633585605

India is hardly a shining example of Covid success.

The only reason cases have settled down is because they've basically all had Covid now. Something like 80% have antibodies.

They had about 3 million + excess deaths. Cases undercounted about 6 times over due to lack of testing.

That would translate to about 12000 Covid deaths in NZ

by southmotian | 8th Oct 21, 7:21am 1633630887

If that was the "only reason" you'd see a bell shaped curve of cases and deaths as it slowly leveled off then began to slowly decrease. To ignore that they went from exponential increase to exponential decrease very quickly and not look at where their approach differed would be irresponsible.

by Mollie | 7th Oct 21, 6:03pm 1633583007

Are GPs allowed to offer any medical treatments?

by pacifica | 7th Oct 21, 9:46pm 1633596371

All GPs can offer medical treatments the most basic being checking airflow, heart stats and prescribing medication. The word "treatment" seems to mean something rarer than unicorns in your dictionary but in english and in NZ it means to offer medical care. In fact all people in NZ should be capable of offering treatment to others. It is not a special skill to perform CPR for instance and we teach it to children, we have over the counter medication that can be acquired without a prescription and there are numerous methods to treat someone at home and more professionally for serious cases in a hospital. Or do you think it takes specialists and a permission slip to bandage a small cut as well? Generally curious as to why you have not understood what treatment and more specifically viral treatment means. Surely you were born and had the cord cut.

by unaha-closp | 7th Oct 21, 12:17pm 1633562266

Ongoing restrictions do not make much sense in a country that is highly vaccinated, when the vaccine has declining effectiveness over time. To minimise the number of deaths we should have as much exposure of the population whilst the vaccine is maximally effective, this will allow us to gain natural immunity which appears more effective than the vaccine alone. If we have ongoing restrictions we will slow the spread of the disease so that it hits increasingly more vulnerable populations as it progresses.

by pacifica | 7th Oct 21, 12:21pm 1633562466

Medical systems and health not your strong suit. Try gambling with something other than human lives; say money. This is a money & investment website forum after all.

by unaha-closp | 7th Oct 21, 3:18pm 1633573113

We're both gambling, but only one of us seems to realise it.

I prefer to gamble big when the odds are most in our favour, much better than a whole lot of small bets where the odds get worse every time.

by pacifica | 7th Oct 21, 9:54pm 1633596848

Hmm got to say I never lost a human life with my gambles and distain the ethics of those who would treat human lives as meaningless paper bets. I have won a surprising amount though and never needed to cheat, commit fraud or steal like others have just to be more wealthy. But then those with science and medical care backgrounds are rated as having higher ethics than the general public, which says a lot considering the subject matter and the body of historic work. Isn't it great to be happy and relatively healthy with loving relationships and family living well past their nineties even with genetics being altered by nuclear testing. Got to say won the jackpot on being alive there.

by Brutus Iscariot | 7th Oct 21, 1:02pm 1633564920

Yep, if we delay the inevitable through January and February, elderly immunity will be wearing off as they were first up in April/May this year. The next few weeks is peak immunity for the nation, particularly the vulnerable.

by Solve_it | 7th Oct 21, 12:28pm 1633562881

Helpful summary. Thank you

by Squishy | 7th Oct 21, 1:45pm 1633567524

I see the best measure of progress as being able to see family again both within New Zealand and internationally. We need to keep moving forwards.

by kiwiana02 | 7th Oct 21, 2:08pm 1633568909

85% in Auckland - well done everyone! I’m starting to feel a bit more hopeful we can move another stage towards level 2

by pacifica | 7th Oct 21, 2:24pm 1633569858

Sadly a single dose is not very effective (like flipping a coin). We would need more than 80% to have two doses and the vaccination rate is pretty far away considering two doses to be effectively vaccinated.

by DaveB1978 | 7th Oct 21, 3:38pm 1633574309

It is 2 weeks after your second jab before you are considered fully immunised.

by pacifica | 7th Oct 21, 10:18pm 1633598318

Yeah it has taken us most of a year and we are still behind 50%. There usually is a huge dropoff rate between the first and second doses, plus there is a sufficiently concerning dropoff already being recorded. If we make it past 60% by the end of the month we still will not be likely to make it to 80% by the end of the year. Unless something drastic changes this is no time to pull out the party hats... Plus we already need boosters for most of group 2 and group 3 but as of yet do not have enough supply to even start booster shots. It is disturbing but understandable given the lack of modern medical education in the general population. Almost as if you could say modern medicine is being disregarded for superstitious placebo wnkfests. NXIVM would love the NZ public. So easily confused and lead around like sheep; all too willing to be permanently branded rather than have a undetectable rapidly disappearing vaccine that does not even leave a mark and actually strengthens the immune system. We are a ponzi racket goldmine. So many cults in NZ still harm children and mental development but offer them exceedingly over tested medicine and no, they will take untested class A drugs, known for severe brain damage, cut with high concentrations of toxic substances and eat anything under the sun known to be poisonous but a vaccine that protects them, no that is too unknown. No one can be born with this ignorance, it has to be taught and preached.

by Yvil | 7th Oct 21, 2:27pm 1633570058

For the folks not living in Auckland (and Waikato), especially to our friends in the South Island, it's understandable that there is less reason to get vaccinated when there hasn't been a case in almost a year but make no mistake, elimination is gone, Covid WILL be everywhere in NZ, that's no reason to be scared, but now is a good time to prepare. Folks, get your first vaccination now, DHB's do whatever you can to increase hospital beds and hire more nurses.

by Final Account | 7th Oct 21, 4:32pm 1633577536

I've got this guy I know, he's a chemist, and he's married to a vet, and they've been taking notice of this really rare petroleum bi-product based anti-viral tablet that is only available from oil bourn from rigs in the North Sea, on the Russian/Norway border. It turns out there's an active ingredient left over from the dinosaurs that actually comes back to life when the oil is extracted and put through the refining process, this active ingredient is the chemical opposite of the Covid 19 spike protein, and just flays it alive, i mean chews through it when the two are combined in clinical trials that have been undertaken in Sweden and Finland. There's a secret supply chain through my church that is able to get their hands on these pills and they are distributed throughout the country, but only if you know the right people. If you want some let me know and leave a comment below. Keep these horrible needles and pseudo science big pharma government agents away from you and your family.

ANTI-VAXXERS ASSEMBLE! FOLLOW ME TO FREEEEDOOOMMM!!!

by younger than most | 7th Oct 21, 7:14pm 1633587280

Yes

Please send some to imavaxedsheep.com

by Fluffybunny | 7th Oct 21, 8:49pm 1633592944

The Internet, is for porn. AND THIS GUY!!

I love your work.

by fat pat | 7th Oct 21, 8:24pm 1633591457

Uttar Pradesh, India Population = ~200 million. Vaccination rate = ~11%. daily covid cases = 9. See data here.

Singapore, Population = 5.8 million, Vaccination rate = 77%, daily new cases =3577 See data here.

Can someone explain why we're fixated on vaccination given that data?

by Fluffybunny | 7th Oct 21, 8:51pm 1633593060

Yeah idk about trusting Indian numbers. Couple of Indian boys in my team tell me is pretty much a cluster f over there. Like everyone knows someone who has died kinda thing.

by jerry_NZ | 7th Oct 21, 11:26pm 1633602369

Oh ....

Do you know that the Expiry date of the Vaccine was extended form 6 months to 9 months on the 6th of September 2021 by Pfizer NZ?

WHO is extending the shelf life of the product by 50%??!!

https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/profs/Datasheet/c/comirnatyinj.pdf

by Doggog | 8th Oct 21, 9:39am 1633639177

Pfizer will tell you anything you want to hear as they have no liability for their product. Hey, store it at whatever temperature you want, keep it as long as you want. Changes the time between doses and give people as many boosters as you want. Just keep ordering and paying please so our bonuses aren't affected.

by sparrow | 8th Oct 21, 10:19am 1633641563

That's very common with any new drug, the expiry is extended as data on its stability over time becomes available.

by Dan122 | 8th Oct 21, 10:41am 1633642888

Oh. Has it got something to do with money? It's health stuff isn't it?