Even as Trump’s violent mob laid siege to the US Capitol, he repeated the Big Lie that the election was stolen. David Cay Johnston says the justification for removal now is overwhelming

Even as Trump’s violent mob laid siege to the US Capitol, he repeated the Big Lie that the election was stolen. David Cay Johnston says the justification for removal now is overwhelming

*This article comes from DCReport and is used with permission.

By David Cay Johnston*

Here is the message Republicans must take from the violent mob Donald Trump sent to attack our Capitol Wednesday in his failed coup attempt:

Break completely from this crazy, seditious, wannabe dictator now. Hold him to account, preferably by prompt removal from office via the 25th Amendment or a rapid impeachment and conviction. He must be arrested and criminally prosecuted for trying to overthrow our government. More than a few traitors have been executed for such a crime.

What are the consequences of Republican leaders failing to denounce Trump totally and back up denunciations with action?

Trump and his dangerous and armed mob will become millstones around your necks. And your failings will brand you as traitors unfit to hold public office.

For the Josh Hawleys, Ted Cruzes and other seditious Republican senators and representatives any further defense of Trump should end your political careers and your acceptance in civilized society.

Expel Seditious Legislators

Both the House and Senate, which with the Georgia runoff election results are under Democratic Party control, should exercise their authority to expel these and other seditious lawmakers if they say another word defending Trump or challenging the certification of Joe Biden as the next president.

That’s not overreach; it’s a Constitutional duty.

The mob Trump coerced to lay siege to our Capitol broke into the building, occupied and looted the Senate chamber, engaged in hand-to-hand combat with uniformed Capitol Police, broke into the floors of Congress and rifled through lawmakers’ desks. These all are criminal acts for which Trump is responsible.

A woman intruder, identified as Air Force veteran Ashli Babbitt of San Diego, was fatally shot by a Capitol police officer. Three others died of medical reactions.

Thank goodness someone had the presence of mind to gather up the state certifications of the November election results, denying Trump another opportunity to attack the Biden inauguration.

Trump Still Seeks Overthrow

If you doubt Trump still wants to overthrow our government, just watch his one-minute video from the White House Rose Garden made as the siege was under way. Trump asserted yet again the Big Lie that “everyone knows” the election was stolen because he won in a landslide.

While Trump did, in passing, tell the mob to go home, it was only a sort of suggestion. His core message to his riot squad was that “so bad and so evil” people stole the election. His real message to the rioters: Never give up trying to end our democracy and keep me in power.

Click to view the full video, which was taken down by Twitter.

That the crowd did not disperse proves his words hollow. Instead, live television carried voices of rioters vowing violence, promising to press on. As the sun set and darkness enveloped the Capitol grounds, where were federal law enforcement other than the Capitol Police?

Trump put at risk the life of his own vice president, Mike Pence, on whom he painted a target during his incitement of the rioters. He endangered the next two people in line for the presidency, Nancy Pelosi, House speaker, and Chuck Grassley, Senate president pro tem.

Representative Linda Sanchez, a California Democrat, told MSNBC she instructed her family on where to find her will in case the riots claimed her life.

Warning Proved Right

About five years ago, I warned repeatedly that if Trump became president our democracy could end. I also said if Trump lost election, his presidency would end badly. While I couldn’t predict precisely what would happen, I was certain that Trump would not leave office peacefully.

Now we have seen what I anticipated: mayhem provoked by Trump, his namesake oldest son and Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani. This cannot stand.

Give the siege today, there can be no doubt that Trump remains a wannabe usurper, plain and simple. In rallying the mob to march on the Capitol, he:

  1. Committed sedition, a federal crime in conspiracy with the rioters and Don Jr.
  2. Advocated the overthrow of our government, another felony
  3. Incited insurrection

Add in the provocative words of Giuliani, who told the mob there would be “trial by combat.”

Their own words establish a criminal conspiracy, a crime punishable by imprisonment for five years or more.

The videos from the Capitol also showed a banner hanging over the platform being built for the inauguration of Joe Biden in two weeks. Here is what the insurrectionists declared: “We the people will bring DC to its knees. We have the power.”

Stopping Further Coup Attempts

They do not have that power, but we also cannot just wave this off. Authorities must exercise their power to indict, try and upon conviction imprison all of the hundreds of criminals who assaulted our democrac. The insurrectionists forced lawmakers into hiding and necessitated armed officers to hold off rioters at the House chamber door with drawn handguns aimed at a rioters visible through a broken window.

From Day One, Trump has violated his oath of office but never so dangerously as in his inciting violence, a local crime for which the local District of Columbia authorities should have him arrested the moment his presidency ends if not before.

Hours after the siege began, the Capitol was still not under the control of our government as rioters, some of them looters, roamed the building.

Trump has over the decades said multiple times that looters should be shot on sight. So why did Trump not call for that in his Rose Garden video tweet? Of course, it’s because Trump is at one with the rioters and looters. They are Trump’s mob.

Trump has not sent federal law enforcement to corral, arrest and identify the rioters. Instead, the governors of Maryland and Virginia sent state police riot squads to defend the Capitol.

Contrast that with Trump’s abusive assignment of the military to attack peaceful demonstrators so he could stage a June 1 photo op with a Bible at the church closest to the White House. Trump’s failure to send authorities to quell the rioters is solid evidence of his complicity and support.

What to Do

It would be more than reasonable for Vice President Mike Pence and the cabinet to remove Trump immediately under the 25th Amendment. They must do this. However, while Trump promised “the best people” would populate his administration he intend installed such low-grade weaklings and incompetents that, sadly, this is likely a vain hope.

While time is short, it’s more than reasonable for the House to impeach Trump a second time. There is no bar to impeaching Trump after he is out of office, but the way to defend our democracy is for the House to rapidly pass articles of impeachment and the Senate to take the issue up the same day and vote to convict and remove him.

And if neither of those occurs, then as soon as Trump is out of office, and his presumed immunity from federal prosecution ends, he must be indicted on District of Columbia level charges. He already is under investigation by federal prosecutors in Manhattan, a state grand jury in Manhattan, New York State attorney general and the district attorney in Fulton County (Atlanta) Georgia. These cases should proceed with all due speed.


*David Cay Johnston is Editor-in-Chief of DCReport and a Pulitzer Prize winning US investigative journalist. He featured in this interest.co.nz video interview last year.

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143 Comments

26
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Rather a nasty and hypocritical article. We should be applauding American's constitutional right to mostly peacefully protest.

20
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So remind us again Zachary which of the US Capitol rioter thugs were acting peacefully, resulting in four people dead? Because it certainly didn't look like a peaceful protest to the rest of the world.

But you'll be a Trump supporter to the end won't you Zachary, you always have been.

20
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I've noticed your tone on this matter to be quite condescending. Treating those with differences of opinion as of "lesser intelligence" or as "the other".

Think what you like and express your opinion forthrightly. Let's not dehumanise those with different views.

19
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More Trump supporters wedeling out of the woodwork. I'm more than happy to ignore your comment. And point out the deplorable actions of the rioters was far from peaceful, which everyone in the world can see. They can also see that Trump is infantile and unpatriotic president who can't handle the truth of his own failures.

14
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I'm not a supporter. I think the Western World has been sorely let down by the choice between Trump and Biden. Each are equally awful, pandering and decisive. Biden is however more polished and many magnitudes more palatable. Yesterdays action and imagery were foolish, distasteful and illegal.

So we agree for the most part. My point and I will reiterate. You are not better/more insightful/brilliant than people who think differently to you.

10
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Now you're just trying to patronizing and for the record; I do not agree with you even if you like self proclaim that I do. :)

17
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I see I'm wasting my time. Good bye!

Yes you are because you have no logical argument. Bye, bye :)

No you are not! Don't forget there are 80 million people who voted fro Trump who would support your argument!

11
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Wrong. 74,216,747 voted for Trump. 81,268,867 voted for Biden. Trump lost by the greatest margin since 2008. 

And lets not forget he lost the popular vote in 2016 as well. Trump has never won a popular vote, ever.

David (and others), you should perhaps read the article linked below. America is on a knife edge. Most of the states Trump lost were by comparatively slim margins and some of the swing states were almost within the margin to force a rerun. When you're talking 7 million votes out of a total vote count of 155 million, that's down to the wire by any measure. As everyone knows - the election isn't about the popular vote (ask Hillary). That sort of thinking is what gave NZ our dysfunctional system called MMP
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/bidens-job-gets-easier-after-senate-wins-but-...

Yeah, 'cause you can not have the majority deciding in a democracy, the only rightful outcome is minority governments. Is that what you are trying to say?

PA, using NZ as an example, other than our current setup we've never had a majority led govt as counted by a "popular vote". What we've had is a collection of minority parties cuddling up, cutting deals between themselves to form a functional majority of electorate seats. In the US Clinton won the popular vote in 2016 but lost the election. We all know what happened here in 2017, where a 7% minority party decided the govt.
What I'm saying is that the idea of the "popular vote" having the Govt of it's choice is actually an illusion more than fact.. usually. I didn't say it was right or wrong - I just made the observation of what is reality

MMP gives us coalitions, yes, but that is far better than what we had under FPP when a party could win the majority of electorates yet be far outvoted by the popular vote, that happened constantly before we switched to MMP, which we voted for and the reason we went for it was exactly because of the unjustness of FPP voting.
I feel the moaning about MMP and other proportional systems, harks back to the time when only a certain section of society called the shots, and a vestige of that remains.

When we had FPP the largest bloc of voters carried the day through electorate victories. When we switched to MMP we swapped that for a situation where a minority of voters carried the day through coalition agreements. Neither is particularly ideal, the last scenario least of all.
Maybe a system where there are no Party votes but only individual MP votes? Personally I don't think MMP is any more democratic than FPP - perhaps less so. NZF and it's constant "horse trading" is a case in point. I think a system that potentially allows 5% of the vote (or less in the case of an electorate win) to decide the formation of Parliament is decidedly and fundamentally undemocratic

And that is why we voted to switch to MMP, because far too many voices were being completely discounted. At least with MMP all sorts of views can get a say, from ACT to the Greens, they are all legit voices and should not be nullified by having no way of achieving any representation.
NZF may have been able to play the game it chose, for as long as people VOTED for it, because that is what it is about, I suspect they may have worn that tactic well and truly out.
It does not matter if the 5% you are so worried about is out and obvious, or is buried in other, larger parties, it will always be those small numbers that decide. Look at the USA, it seems to be the same states every election that decides who gets to be president, that isn't democratic at all.
No, I will stick with MMP, I wish the recommendations that came from 2012 review were at least debated in parliament, if not enacted on, rather than being binned by Judith Collins. I actually think the warts of MMP are a good, if inconvenient at times, thing.

Well I respect your opinion - but when 5% of the vote is the threshold for deciding who governs. in my humble opinion, there is a serious problem. I support democracy wholeheartedly but allowing a minor party to select the govt is, imv, far from democratic. MMP is a sideshow

The ONLY reason that NZF have been in the position they have is because they try to walk the middle line, between the two major parties. MMP is not really designed for them, which can seen by the way they fall from favour all the time, perhaps permanently this time. The extremes will never have the power NZF have been able to wield because of this, but that representation should be and is, there.
NZF is/was an aberration, I don't think anyone will try their game again unless a very wide gap opens between Nat and Lab in the future, but as long as they keep all trying to capture the middle (where obviously the winning and losing is) then we actually NEED the likes of ACT and the Greens to make a difference.
I think FFP is extremely undemocratic as people living in a constituency that always tends to favour one side or the other, that they are opposed to, have no voice, whatsoever.

As an aside to my comments above - if the situation arises where a minority of voters win the majority of electorates then that is a symptom of the Electorate Boundaries being poorly defined, it's certainly not the fault of the electoral system. Each electorate should have the same or similar number of registered voters - easy to demarcate in our digital age.

They don't have the same number of registered voters but hte same number of people. That is because MPs represent the people, not only registered voters:
https://elections.nz/democracy-in-nz/historical-events/boundary-review-2...

I would say the point being missed is democracy does not work well when you have such a polarised society where there is a fight for ideas and where in essence nearly half the population is marginalised. Neitherside considers being inclusive to the other...so it swings now to the dems yet that really is no better for half the population as the previous four years....

Speckles, this thread reminds me of Winston Churchill's famous remarks about democracy (which I will paraphrase)

- Democracy is the worst political system in the world, except for all the other ones.

It's nice to live in a country where the discussion is about MMP or FPP...

Interesting that 159 million votes were cast in total - 21 million more than in 2016. Postal voting etc
https://www.cfr.org/blog/2020-election-numbers

Perhaps postal voting stymied voter suppression

Glad that David was quick to correct you on the actual number of votes Trump had. And don't forget that Trump is a very desperate man, willing to do anything to stay in power. Including bullying other politicians in to committing fraud by flipping votes for him, so he can try to steal the election.
He's was even recorded on the phone doing exactly that!

Still you got to laugh at Trumps infantile attempts; (Best bit of comedy ever), Trump boss baby throwing a tantrum also apt from Trump supporters. https://twitter.com/jimmykimmel/status/1346299503251374082?s=20

15
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lol - tell that to slum-lord Trump - he has walked over people his entire life. And now he is trying to walk over US democracy. He and his supporters deserve all the scorn and derision they get.

What about...........What about.......

14
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exactly - what about all that vile shit he's done over the years? once he's the President it all gets forgotten and a free pass? no effing way and neither does anyone who turns a blind eye - once a POS always a POSOTUS. When are the Republicans going to put up a decent candidate - Reagan was the last one of any substance and then you have to go way back to Eisenhower.

I was a massive anti-GW Bush person back in the day. I'm actually looking back to him with nostalgia. And yes, I remember he started an illegal war based on a lie, but he was still better. Unbelievable.

10
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Jonny-Utah,

perhaps you don't know Zachary well enough, but he long ago pronounced himself to be sympathetic to the Alt Right and to proclaim Trump as a great President. That speaks for itself.

I'm more of a globalist these days.

Are you happy now Zachary, can you see what Trump has done: Capitol Police officer dies from injuries after clashing with pro-Trump mob. The officer, Brian D. Sicknick, is the fifth person to die from Wednesday's violent clash in Washington. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/capitol-police-officer-ha...

Apparently one of the deceased Trump supporters died from a heart attack triggered by him accidentally tasering his own testicles.

I feel bad, but that's kind of appropriate. The sooner this rotten husk of a regime is consigned to the scrap heap and the criminals who invaded Capitol hunted down, the quicker we can all move on.

Baahh hahaha.. that has to be the ultimate poetic justice - take a taser into Capitol building, self inflict it and die as a result. That's the ultimate kick in the cods.

Bunch of absolute morons.

Trump or Zachary? Or both?

Yes pointless sensationalism. Wheels in US government just wouldn’t turn quickly enough and anyway, the GOP has not forgotten Nixon was one of theirs, don’t want another ousted president on their portrait wall. By now there must be some consensus between representatives to keep a watch and use existing levers to curb and/or extinguish any extremes forthcoming in the next two weeks.

17
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Zachary Smith....
The only peaceful protest is what Mahatma Gandhi demonstrated, Hunger Srtike.
What happened yesterday was vandalism, assault on the Capitol, destruction of property, interference in legislative work, obstruction, and many more. All criminal and punishable.

I used to think like you SmoKey but I was convinced otherwise while arguing with very intelligent people about the BLM protests. I see now that protest is a sacred right and it is allowed to be robust.
Actually Kiwis and British types in general are very reluctant to protest even in the face of actual outrages.

To quote you Zachary: "I see now that protest is a sacred right and it is allowed to be robust". By robust protest do you mean that they're allowed to carry guns and shoot at the police? That's a thug Zachary not a peaceful protestor.

CJ, it was the authorities shooting at the protestors. Four people died, one killed by security and the other three had heart attacks or something. The latter were bound to happen as the crowd was so huge and a lot of older folk there.

How many people were in the mob, it actually didn't seem anywhere near enough... trump is deluded that he thought he has big support

I wouldn't call 73 million people chump change FH

How many people were in the mob??

Seemed to be several if not 10+ thousands at the first rally - a few 100 at the Capitol Building maybe? I was referring to Trumps vote count in the election - 73 million apparently

Of 73 million, a few 100 at the Capitol Building is a laugh... even those few 100 could create plenty damage if well organized but thats where it stops as not well organized and the rally call of trumps vile rhetoric has been silenced. It's almost time to 'drain the swamp' of trump and his awful family

Fh you should really be a bit more explicit when you ask how much support Trump has. Certainly the crowd at the first rally was pretty respectable, and the 73 million votes (47+ %) is not insignificant support. The few 100 rioters is insignificant in isolation but they are far from being a "splinter group"

Yeah you should read what I wrote instead of go on your own detour, I referred to how many were in the mob, pretty simple really. If I ask one question and you decide to answer another totally random question of the voter turnout because you think it sounds better it is no wonder you are confused. Now just give it a rest rather than trying to prove you are right and everyone else is wrong.

How about you stop being a twat?? You said in your post Trump has marginal support - clearly incorrect. Don't conflate your crap reasoning with "everyone else".. it's clearly cognitively dissonant, it's also plainly incorrect. What you posted and what you thought were divergent. The #'s of the mob are clearly not representative of his support
"trump is deluded that he thought he has big support" - your words... clearly incorrect!

Voting for Trump doesn't mean he has support from those voters. Some Americans would vote for a dead person if it was the Republican candidate:
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/this-republican-died-of-coronavirus-back-in-...

not chump change...just chumps

Zachary they the "rioters" were carrying guns of course the police shot back at them! Which bit of peaceful protesters do you not understand??!!!

Didn't the Black Panthers do exactly that in the 60s?

I will quote Mahatma Gandhi again. An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind.
Robust protest need not mean violence, destruction of property. It could mean simultaneous hunger strikes in many places, in front of government buildings (without obstructing the normal work there), so on. It could also mean sit ins, not vandalism.
The trigger happy police and protestors both do harm to Democracy, no doubt.
That is the tragedy of America. Constant and continuous escalation by all the sides using fire arms and violence.

BLM activists were involved inside the Capitol protestors
https://www.oann.com/blm-linked-activist-found-inside-capitol-during-pro...

Haha.. OAN - the replacement Trump sanctioned media after he spat the dummy with Fox.

Haha.. que my reply above. I'll believe it when BBC reports it

newsmax and fox entertainment are absolutely complicit leading up to the riots, they only change their tune if they see advertiser $s dropping off the radar. They are not news outlets, simply propaganda for sensationalist journos with no thought whatsoever as to whether their articles are truthful or not, or what harm they do when simpletons lap it up...never enters their head. And the uneducated sheep that don't have the brain power to see through the so easily seen bullshit, results in what happened at the Capitol. I commend the Capitol Police for not shooting more of the domestic terrorists.

Fox News has recently moved more to the Centre - apparently due to Murdoch's' sons influence.

Too little, too late. Fox and others should be censured by the FCC when it is proven through fact that they lie and put forth conspiracy theories and their evening opinion hate shows on a regular and sustained basis. And that should apply to others as well on all sides of the media spectrum. Freedom of speech, yes, but when it is proven time and again that an outlet is lying all the time and provable by fact, they should be censured. It is only about sensationalism and advertising dollars for the likes of fox and newsmax etc, but 'poor boy' people who dont have the ability to think for themselves are sucked into the vortex of foreign infiltrators thinking it is actual truthful NEWS rather than rabid junk. So sad that people dont get it.

We can applaud the protestors if they had come on their own, instead of being goaded by a sitting President, which is the gist of this article. The insurrection by a President who swore to uphold and defend the Constitution. He needs to be removed or prosecuted later.
The protestors were let loose by that incendiary speech. They behaved badly, not peacefully, as the whole world has seen.
The forces trying to protect the Capitol were overwhelmed and were almost lynched. The shooting of one person could have been self defence. Anyways, at a desperate moment, if the guards cannot use arms, what is the point of carrying them and how can they protect the building, property and the people inside the building. Those people were elected law makers and needed as much protection as the President himself.

Rather a nasty and hypocritical article

I think you're just trolling.

Is not the Federal Reserve System more of an enemy of the people of the US?

13
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A coup?

The irony of using that word to describe what happened from a country that is probably more versed in helping other countries stage real coups.

To give credit to either Democrats or Republicans, I'm sure if they really wanted to stage a coup, a far better attempt would have been made, as would the counter-response.

10
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Agreed purely opportunistic. Having said that, Franz Ferdinand driving directly past his then would be assassin and the two shots being perfectly true was as well.

The barbarians at the gates imagery of that guy with the viking horns in the house will be a turning point for American legitimacy.

Amazon may soon be selling those Viking Horns for $25 a pop ?

It looked more like a native American buffalo headdress but we don't want to tarnish the indigenous peoples with the acts of the barbarians.

Haha.. I think you'll find they were more likely to be plastic fakes and faux fur - no doubt made in China.. the ultimate irony!! Gotta say America sure breeds some whackos. what a fustercluck of a country

QAnon the Barbarian

Yeah the trumpman is just an amateur wannabe dictator. And the laugh is now he wants all those who participated in the riots he encouraged to be prosecuted with the full force of the law. Ha ha. This is what one does when they know they F-d up, it is called back tracking.

If his mother was still alive, you'd find him hiding behind her skirts, the guy is an out and out craven coward.

Dumbty doesn't have the ability to organize a piss up in a brewery let alone anything else.

11
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Trump needs to be removed from office immediately. He still has two weeks left and can do a lot of further damage in that time. Yes you have been proved right David, good article.

13
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Rein in the hysteria son, maybe you should take yourself off what ever conspiracy sites you've been going to for a few days.

Bit hypocritical coming from a Trump supporter. :)

I sort of agree but what further damage could he do worse than this. I think he will lick his wounds until inauguration day he can't use some of the social media to broadcast anymore which makes him pretty powerless.

Absolutely right CJ. Dumbty is an absolute disgrace to anyone of sound mind.

Merrick Garland may be the one who will initiate legal action against Trump in the coming months...
#ironymuch.

Just if they wanted people in Capitol building. They knew they were coming but hardly any security.

Yeah I don't understand what was going on with the lack of police/security? Everyone knew there was going to be a mob of trump supporters turning up...

90% of them were there to get selfies, there was no strategy. I get the feeling that is why there was a lax response from security forces

11
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They're bogan nutcases with the utmost dedication to narcissist Trump, who's been encouraging them to fight back at his rallies. There's no excuses for being so lax on security. Something seems off with it all.

Shaman in a fur hat! That's something you don't see everyday.

BBC Capitol riots: Boris Johnson condemns Donald Trump for sparking events. Article quote: Donald Trump was "completely wrong" to cast doubt on the US election and encourage supporters to storm the Capitol, Boris Johnson has said.

The UK prime minister said he "unreservedly condemns" the US president's actions.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-55580806

The Federal Elections Commissioner stated that the election was "not legitimate." His scrutineers were not allowed to witness the vote counting in Pennsylvania. There was lack of due process in other states.
The protest was on the whole peaceful. If anybody got excited, there was good reason to be.
The media has reported on the election and its aftermath with complete bias.

Do you have any links to support that elmo. Seems on the whole it WAS legal, as decided by numerous courts all the way up to the Supreme Court.

You'll never guess: There are multiple FEC Commissioners and they get appointed by Presidents. There is no 'The' when it comes to FEC Commissioners and they're partisan appointments, not neutral ones. I'm sure elmo isn't showing any bias of his own in omitting this kind of information, probably just slipped his mind.

Fair enough. There did seem to be an underlying thread of denial in the rest of the post imv, but to be honest I think any discussion regarding the legitimacy of the election just got overridden by yesterdays events. Initially I thought Trump would be good for American politics but he's become more and more dysfunctional as time has gone by. Pence is in an unenviable spot, if I were him I'd invoke the impeachment clause and put it to the vote asap

The point is the cases were never heard in court they were all dismissed on technicalities as anyone can verify by looking into the cases.

Some were incoherent ramblings but others were valid cases that should have been heard.

yeah - the technicalities of having no factual evidence

Plaintiffs’ interpretation of events is incorrect and not credible.
I heard someone else say something,’” and said, “Tell me how that is not hearsay. Come on now!"
Plaintiffs fail to identify the occurrence and scope of any alleged violation,”
The number of ballots challenged in this suit for minor errors would not be enough to change the election result.
The plaintiffs “ask the Court to violate the rights of over 6.8 million Americans,” he wrote, referring to all the voters in November in Pennsylvania. “It is not in the power of this Court to violate the Constitution.”

The cases obviously can't have been that compelling or valid David. Many of them seemed to revolve around spurious claims which had been debunked by even the most cursory investigation.

Ageed. In addition the left wing media made no mention of the investigation into Hunter Biden until AFTER the electon. They finally announced that he was being investigated for criminal charges and the FBI were also determining whether his father knew about his dealings. Timing is everything.

poorboy12 trolling..ignore

14
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Trump cares about no one - I mean no one - but himself. He couldn't care less who or what gets hurt, killed or destroyed.
He is a narcissist of the highest order by any definition and if no one saw this coming they are blind.
Imagine what Lincoln, Eisenhower, FDR et al would think of this along with all those Americans who have died trying and rid the world of this type of behavior.
Hes like a drug lord who demands unfettered loyalty in deference to himself.

You seem hysterical but lets listen to your arguments, first thing would be which of his policies or EO's are you referring to?

Its about common human decency and respect for fellow people. If you have no empathy for anyone and serve only yourself its impossible to even start doing anything for people.

A lot of his supporters are the poorest people in America, he implemented a lot of really good policies for those people, some getting back to work after decades of being unable to find work.

His policies were bad for international trade but really good for the people suffering under the trade deals which meant they couldn't find work because they were competing with "cheaper" labor conditions overseas.

EDIT: changed the word "constituents" to "supporters"

There is certainly a similarity between our mob of prisoners who rioted last week and Trump's mob who stormed the White House yesterday. This similarity is that both the USA Democrats and our Labour Party in NZ have emerged appearing weak in dealing with their respected mobs.

Lol, reading that was unpleasant, democracy didn't end, the rioting was in the same spirit as the long established rules brought in for the BLM protests.

Maybe the writer should condemn the officer shooting into a crowd from behind a barricade to "protect" an empty room or is it OK to start shooting into a crowd now?

"is it OK to start shooting into a crowd now?" - it is when the target is part of a mob rampaging through and looting the Capitol building. And she wasn't in a "crowd" - she'd clambered up on a window ledge so presented a clear target. The mob, imv, should consider themselves lucky the CP were too chickens!@t to open fire earlier. A few people writhing around on the floor with a bullet in their leg would be a wakeup call to chill the !@# out and stand down. Those rioters were nothing but "trailer trash" spoiling for mayhem

OK, advocating murder to protect an empty room nice one.

If she hadn't have been rampaging through the building in the first place she'd still be alive. There looked to be several thousand at the rally in the oval - not more than 100 rioted in the Capitol Building by the looks, it was her call. She was ex armed forces so a bit of a contradiction the way I see it - swears to uphold the constitution then storms the Capitol building.
I'm not advocating murder (it wasn't) at all, by the same token she gets no sympathy from me.

Do you understand you are advocating the murder of someone?

EDIT: I thought we were saying all violence should be condemned or are you saying violence is OK in some situations?

I'm genuinely interested in what your criteria for allowing violence, is it based on race or gender or religious or political ideology?

I assume you are a single person but your rhetoric reads like a angry mob in which case your criteria is probably just anyone who doesn't think like you happen to think on the day.

You call it murder, I call it someone doing their job protecting the Senate. Next you're gonna tell me she was a patriot. The CP officer was in a volatile, unpredictable situation faced with multiple potential threats - that much is clear from footage. I accept shooting her in the chest was arguably extreme but the situation was extreme. Murder it wasn't.
BTW - if someone or a group broke into my house after repeated instructions to leave, offering potential violence, I would happily and unblinkingly put a bullet in them.. and it would DEFINETLY be in the chest
I don't advocate murder but I do advocate the rule of Law and Order. I also advocate the right to peaceful protest - with an emphasis on PEACEFUL.
60 CP Officers were injured yesterday - 15 in hospital and 1 has since died. THAT death is murder

I think it was murder. There will be an investigation. You cannot go around shooting unarmed protestors. Even the Chinese weren't doing that.

Seems by the injuries sustained (and death) by the CP officers indicates the rioters (that's what they were - NOT protestors) were armed - some apparently with lengths of lead pipe.
60 Officers injured - 15 hospitalised - 1 death. That's not a protest that's an out and out riot

Yeah and all those rioters are being identified and going to prison. Did they really think that Trump would pardon them? BBC Capitol riots: Who broke into the building? https://www.bbc.com/news/55572805

if anyone is guilty of murder it would be those inciting sedition and federal trespass.

Unless they are black.. come on keep it factual its USA.

You're getting to Darwin award territory when you storm the US Capitol with a mob, at least some of whom intend to effect a violent coup, you get to a barricade with a federal agent holding you at gunpoint telling you not to proceed, and you proceed.

I suppose that in that way the police who let her through leading up to that point did her no favours.

Yes and it possibly could have been the officer that was shot in a different scenario, like the officer that just died this morning form the assault...I suppose all you Dumbsters are saying that was ok as well. I commend the Capitol Police not shooting more of the ignorant scum. I suppose I should be more empathetic to the assaulting mobs mental state and say they should be put in a mental institutions instead.

David, you'd be assuming wrong. I am an advocate of violence (fatal if necessary) in the protection of my home and family. Race, gender, ideology or religion doesn't come into it. If violence must be used by the state in the protection of other members of the public, then I'm an advocate of that too, although ideally it isn't fatal but if it has to be then so be it. I'm a big believer in giving people a chance - the chance to leave peacefully. Everyone has choices and if people choose not to exercise that option then what transpires is on them

Empty room? To me, it looked to be the doorway entrance to an upper level hallway with various rooms and/or offices leading off it. How do you know there were not various members of congress and/or staffers seeking saftey in those areas? Of which the police or security services would be obliged to protect? Your assumption of an empty room misrepresents the situation. The video is clear the woman was attempting to break through the barricade. By implication, you expect the police to wave the rioters through?

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Not going to comment as I don't believe the next two weeks will be material either way. I think of former President Trump as more of a consequence of a broken US political system than as a catalyst. Soon future President Biden will assume office, everything will be back to "normal" by which we mean the large number of Americans who voted President Trump will prepare to back the next populist who comes along. After all the abandonment of the mid-West by US political classes will continue, as will the coronavirus pandemic, opiod epidemic and high rates of unemployment as US companies move where the labour is cheap and regulations relaxed.

This time there seem to be no winner in the United States. Just an extension of the politics that got them to where they are today.

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All symptomatic of a decline that is accelerating. The Empire is fading.

If there had been more brown people and immigrants in the mob then the security response would have been entirely different.

Black Panthers had plenty of armed protests in the 60s and weren't all shot dead on site

I agree, yes they did, as an example the time they entered the Californian Capitol building armed, was within their rights by law, the police asked them to leave and they did, peacefully. No one and no property was hurt. They also had genuine grievances of racism.

This is Capitol hill, there was no respect or following the law shown, no genuine grievance. Just sore losers dumb enough to do the bidding of a wannabe dictator. Totally different, I would not mention the Black Panthers in the same sentence.

My post was to highlight what others have said already, something is off with the lack of action taken by security here, even if they were a bunch of disorganized hooligans.

There is footage apparently showing the police removing barricades to allow entry. I've seen one segment and that certainly seems to be the case. I think if the Police Dept was canvassed you'd find a large majority are Republican, probably also Trump supporters ( the two are not mutually inclusive) I saw one clip where a CP officer practically lead the rioters through the building all the while shouting "stay back, stay back". Granted he was alone but he was also armed

This article highly sensationalises the issue.. and clearly written from someone with a bias or agenda

The guts of the situation is that Trump is clearly in denial and delusional...
The reality is that the sooner that clown steps out of office - the better for the world..

Few presidents in history have been so polarising, you either fanatically love him - or you simply hate him... there is no middle ground
Given his unique ability to divide people unilaterally he is clearly not a suitable leader for the free world

'Your Fired" - Get over it...

Trump may well be the first President in American history to go from Office to prison. Last I read he had about $350 million worth of questionable financial dealings awaiting indictment including Tax evasion. Obstruction of Justice (the Mueller Report) is another possible lawsuit. Conspiracy to commit Electoral Fraud (find me 11,780 votes) and now possible incitement to riot. Man.. he's in deep dodo
Maybe Vladimir has a nice chalet sorted for him somewhere - who knows?. Sturgeon doesn't want him in Scotland, Johnson doesn't seem keen, EU won't want him.. poor Donald. Watch for Melania to bail asap

It’s now time for China to step up and take over as the number one superpower and global policeman.

I am sick to death of these "superpowers" the bloody lot of them, what a shame they have the UN by the balls

Trump is a madman who has been indulged by too far by many wealthy supporters expecting something in return and who were unexplainably expecting no consequences from doing so. Well here are your results, four years of lack of political leadership have brought the US international image to what now looks like a banana republic. The result of most perverse disinformation campaign ever run by the right, which did achieve to get millions into believing they were being lied by all media while at the same time feeding them with an alternate reality which of course would buy since made them feel special and loved as he just said yesterday. Hopefully we will never see the populist fascists back in the power like this ever again but it will take some work.

One thing I love about comedians they can cut to the bone: Stephen Colbert - A Terrified President Throws His Riot Mob Under A Bus To Save His Neck (And Get Back On Twitter). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAMMiCe35-Y

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As a political atheist I couldn't care less, but the hypocrisy of this article, this whole year, and the MSM in general is sickening. The BLM crowd can run around burning cars and shooting cops and that’s ignored by the MSM, and amazingly BLM was praised and endorsed by the now de facto president Kamala Harris. AntiFa can run around with concealed weapons beating people up and whatnot. But a largely peaceful protest by Trump supporters with a legitimate grievance gets this kind of hysterical hyperventilating overreaction by the media. Something is wrong here.

Legitimate grievance? LMAO. They lost, they didn't like it. Tough titty. Get on and support the incumbent president like a patriotic American.

No evidence whatsoever to support their 'grievance' has been brought to light other than a few press secretaries waving a handful of paper on Fox news interviews haha

Just think, Trump's barmy words are going down in history, he is going to be laughed at for the next forever

I would laugh too if it wasn't so sad.

Trumps had all his social media accounts frozen until after Jan 20th, that's worse than impeachment for him. Trump will go down as the worst president in US history. Hopefully he dies of old age before 2024.

The US media, as well as Democrats, Mayors and some Republicans, have promoted a very positive image of robust protest during the Trump era. There are countless photos of protestors silhouetted by a burning background while waving a flag upside down or something similar or standing on top a burnt out police vehicle. Largely succeeding in getting a modern version of that famous French Revolution painting Liberty Leading thye People.

However it is true that other protests around Washington DC had a far far greater security presence. When the BLM protested around the Lincoln Memorial the steps of that place were covered with hundreds of national guardsmen. Also hundreds of protesters were arrested.

A lot of questions are being raised about this lack of security. It is, after all, the job of the police to predict these things and work out a strategy to deescalate as peacefully as possible. Detaining a lot of people before things get out of hand is often a good idea and then just letting them go afterwards. Nearly all the people that were detained during BLM protests were not prosecuted later. I think the MAGA protestors probably expected or could at least be forgiven for expecting a similar outcome.

The true masters, The Centre with the Kind Face, most probably engineered all of this. Probably used advanced computer modelling or just gave it ten seconds thought. The optics of the MAGA crowd are guaranteed to get you the type of photo you want. People dressed up in silly costumes, or carrying guns or looking like hillbillies. So easy to get the picture to destroy the credibility of the protests.

It was too good an opportunity to pass up. Trump would have to disown them too. He has even called them heinous. I'm very impressed with the Centre and have decided to join them.

After this last farce, Trump is buggered. We are seeing a nasty old man lash out and someone who's probably not emotionally stable right now.

My call - He will be in prison in the next 2 or 3 years.

I really hope you are right FB. :)

Yep I recon they will go after him as soon as he no longer has the protection of a president. I see that they are trying to pull the nuclear codes from him as well now. Trump has been a total nightmare for the USA and the world. The 20th of January cannot come fast enough so they can say "Your Fired"

And some good news; Twitter have just taken away his favorite toy by locking him out permanently "due to the risk of further incitement of violence". BBC Twitter permanently suspends Trump's account. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55597840

No US President has the ability to unilaterally launch Nuclear weapons - it's a Hollywood fantasy. Pelosi is just grandstanding.

Apparently Trumps more distracted with trying to bypass his Twitter ban, by trying to hijack other twitter accounts for himself which are being rapidly shutdown. To quote one Twitter comment "We are literally playing whack a mole with the president on Twitter what the hell is really going on". ;)

If you want to learn the truth about his behaviour, read his only Nieces book called "Trump, Too Much and Never Enough" by Mary L.

An inside perspective of his true Nature.

This is not a sales pitch, but it will shed some light on his behaviour, made worse by being supposedly presidential "Material" and why he acts the way he has.

MDGA......not MAGA.

Nearly half of America voted for Trump. Removing him from the office does not help if they truly want to heal a deeply divided nation.

Trump is 74; he is rich; he has 74 million voters. Can they really stop him in the next 4 years? Mao Zedong started the Cultural Revolution when he was 72 - just a thought

Removing Trump from office even at this late stage would help America on the whole. Main reasons why: To show the world that they do not tolerate a would be Dictator and they want to maintain their democracy. And yes if he's impeached again he won't be able to run for President ever again (Hopefully they'll ban his family too) and he's also loose his generous Government pension which is in the region of around $219,200 per year ($300k NZD) + free medical.

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