Key goads Goff to "show me the money"; in debate over Labour's costings; National says Labour would borrow NZ$17 bln more over 4 yrs

Key goads Goff to "show me the money"; in debate over Labour's costings; National says Labour would borrow NZ$17 bln more over 4 yrs

By Alex Tarrant

It's almost like waiting for Godot.

After spending much time telling us in the run-up to the election campaign they would provide a fully costed policy manifesto, Labour has been put on the back-foot by National over spending promises and how much extra borrowing they will need to take on over the next four-five years.

National Party campaign manager Stephen Joyce has been sending out release after release detailing how much more the Nats believe Labour will have to borrow over the next four years due to its election policies - not just economic, but education, health and law & order policies too.

The latest figures from Joyce, on the owe our future website, have that sitting at NZ$17.2 billion.

Last night during The Press election debate in Christchurch, Prime Minister John Key said that figure was about NZ$14 billion. But hey, what's NZ$3.2 billion between friends?

"Show me the money," Key demanded of Goff to applause from the Christchurch audience last night. The debate was given to Key due to his 'fiscal attack' on Labour, after a close-run affair in the TVNZ debate on Sunday.

You'd think Labour would have seen this coming, and would be able to produce the figures when needed to refute Joyce's claims. Well, they knew it was coming, because they've said they will present a fully costed election manifesto.

But they're still working on the numbers. I phoned Labour finance spokesman David Cunliffe yesterday and asked if he was doing the numbers, hastily adding I was asking about the fiscal numbers, not the caucus ones.

Labour's finance team is hoping to release the costings from all its policies in the next few days. You'd think they could have started from day one, and every time they released a new policy, say what this would do to alter the fiscal requirements.

Much better than leaving Stephen Joyce to do it.

'Here it is...sort of'

UPDATE: We'll it seems the goading has worked somewhat.

Out on the campaign trail in Nelson today, Goff tried to make to refute Joyce's claims, the NZHerald online reports:

"Over the next three years the Government has projected it will be borrowing about NZ$13 billion. Under our projections we'd probably be borrowing about $15.6 billion. But we'd keep our assets," Goff said.

"We'll be showing New Zealand the money tomorrow. John Key needs to show New Zealand the jobs at the same time," he said.

(Updates with links back to The Press debate, Goff comments from Nelson)

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It's ok it's ok goofy has found the $ was in cunny's spreadsheet...hahahahaaaaaha

Your nuts , Wolly ....... and your crackers Count  ; and Gibber ... your bananas mate ! ....

Labour are gonna take the GST off all your food , guys ...... Gummy reckons that's $ 14 or even $ 17 billion very well spent .... 15 % cheaper gummi-bears , I'm all for that !

And nuts to you too're making a monkeys of the English language you are!

He ain't taking no GST off my  food matey.......the gravy's the bit I like.

As to the know the old saying........

Man who keep tool in biscuit tin...must be crackers..! 

 Desperate  Vs Smug

Round Two...seconds  out..!


Goff comes out swinging  rather than jab  n move....the occassional swing and a miss reflected when leading with the's just not goofy.

John Boy's defence improves a little from round one and the darker lighting helps to hide the obvious brusing ...even adopts  fixed grin ,sensing an opportunity for the upper-cut.

Goff lands a crashing right to thunderous applause and screams of " kill the bastard" from the crowd when the subject of rebuild is addressed.

John Boy feigns a stagger drawing his off-footed opponent close enough to unleash the upper-cut...boom !, show me the money..

Goff stays verticle but goes for the clinch ..... got to buy some time ,buy some time, he thinks.....swish ,show meeeeeeee the, a near miss that would have sent him to the canvass......grabs n holds on once more  for time....


John Boy smugly returns to his corner thinking he's done enough to sneak the point for round two.


Thanks christov. Personally my stomach doesn't have the fortitude to sit through a session of desperate vs smug reality TV. In future I will tune in to your as ever insightful commentary should I ever want to know how it went down ;-)

re "Espiner agrees"-

Edited by Alex Tarrant

Hi alex, touch and go with that one - on the play the ball, not the man 'rule'. Fine if you're giving examples of why you think that, but we're not too keen on comments that just attack people with no reasoning/back-up.

You're free to say how you think someone conducted themselves during the debate, whilst giving reasons for you're thinking, but personal attacks we don't like.

Hope that sounds reasonable



No Alex...he's just the Ref and scoring cards go back to the Ref for conclusion.

If you read round one...I called it the way I saw it....Goff snuck home in that one but did leave himself open to the upper -cut and must accept  that.

 It aint over yet but as the challenger he will need to look for a knockout and not leave it to a split they tend to go the way of the incumbent.

 If I were Goff I'd niggle him a lot more...throw him off when he starts his whiney little stories about having had it tough in a state house and throughout whose administration did his mother afford him the education he so richly know stuff like that...makes the punters go  ...yeah how bout that then Richie Rich how bout that.

Sale of 'spreadsheet' software set to explode higher as fools believe it comes with free billions.

And typically because it's self analysing software there seems to be little or no need to understand it or question it's accuracy......

maybe they are using

 Genie...getting the rub on things.

This debt blaming war brings to mind the old trading adage ' watch what they do not what they say'.

National is  hardly blameless in the debt bloat stakes: publicly traded government debt issuance totals the thick end of $7.0 billion for the first 4 months of the current fiscal year.

The prior year total @~ $19.0 billion hardly reflects fiscal responsibilty, when viewed on a working person per-capita basis. 

Who is kidding who?

Stephen Hulme,

       thanks. so $26 billion additional debt over 16 months from National? Is that right? 


Boy !      'oll Goffs got a problem if even  the lefty journos at Dompost and Granny are saying he lost big time last time. Labour HQ must be running up a huge power bill as Cunny cooks the books to the max


$25.318 billion exactly, according to NZDMO stats. You can laboriously check the monthly publicly traded totals for the June to June years just as I did from the link.

The eurozone crisis is eroding our democracy. How do we withdraw our consent from being governed like this?

What if the sheer complexity of decisions facing national leaders in a democracy combines with greedy or ignorant or pig-headed voters to produce completely stupid results? Could autocracy plus modern IT in practice look more rational and efficient (and therefore more “moral" or at least more credible) at taking strategic decisions, such as not running up state borrowing far beyond the credible capacity of the state to repay its debts?

I can't find a political party to vote for. NZ is stuffed.

In the year to September oil imports rose 22% to $7.7 billion. Oil is costing us $1.4 billion more than a year ago.

If this price trend continues then by 2015 our annual oil import bill will soar to $17 billion and will be $11 billion more than it was in 2010. That annual extra cost will be greater than thegovernment's contribution to the Christchurch earthquake.


Sprott's Oct newsletter has this to say on oil depletion

What has been discovered and brought into production in the past few decades are smaller fields, which normally have higher decline rates. As these new smaller fields replace production from larger fields, and older larger fields age, we can expect the global observed decline rate to increase from the current estimated rate of 6.7% (or 4.7 million barrels per day annually).



We can not rely on economic growth to get us out of debt. NZers are woefully unprepared for hard times. If this all comes to pass - and apart from wishful thinking - the numbers do seem to add up, then prepare for petrol rationing and liquid fuel diversion to the only industries keeping us afloat, milk and timber. But even that is short term.

CAGW will rightly disappear as an issue but not before more economic harm is inflicted by bonehead ETS 

Unfortunately these clowns with the aid of media censorship of the facts are still in charge.For example.



Alex ...copped you on the telly this morning as I tuned in for my regular shifty at the beautiful Nadine.........I noticed you were a little stunned by her presence yourself there eh ...uh...come on matey...... or were you a little shocked when you realized she was actually standing up behind that desk....?

 Still well done got the face for the telly....a few pointers from the big B and you'll be the go to man.

 uuuuh! must be a slow news day......see everybody's over politics already....damn....where is the fizz.

:) Cheers Chistov, yeah I'll be learning from the master that's for sure.

Was good fun for the first time doing something like that (other than our highly-viewed 90 at 9s of course!).

I was staring at a camera in the Welly studio.

oh ....oh  so you ah never got  to embrace her perfume then...? still there will be opportunity for you a plenty I'm sure of that....

FYI from NZHerald on Labour's latest on how much more they'll borrow:

Labour leader Phil Goff has promised to show New Zealand the money tomorrow and reveal his party's fiscal plan which will involve borrowing $2.6 billion more than National over three years.

"Over the next three years the Government has projected it will be borrowing about 13 billion. Under our projections we'd probably be borrowing about $15.6 billion. But we'd keep our assets," Mr Goff said.

"We'll be showing New Zealand the money tomorrow. John Key needs to show New Zealand the jobs at the same time."


Labour Party have at least one  vacancy  coming up later this month

No gonz...several IMO...the entire leadership has to go...what a useless lot. It is unacceptable that the govt should have to face such a useless with their heads.

I'll pay that Gonzo....made me chuckle.... I 'll save a job story for later this a nice one I av.

Now that's good...Fanua...

 Paula Bennett has suddenly become eveybodys Mum the smile the bossums the it's OK darling, it'll come out in the wash manner.

Key/ Goff - cock-a-doodle-doo - but without reading the time.

I’m wonder how much more time Labour/ National/ ACT need until they realize  – ohh wow - there is a big hole in the bucket – while at the same time the stream of money is trying out.:

 It will come as a big shock for all of us, to pay for the mismanagement of our country.

I'm Labour - I'm National - I'm Labour - no - I'm National, I'm Act !! I'm a Key person !! - What a stupid nation we are !!!!

Well I'd vote for you Walter but I'm a bit hamstrung for options......I don't think it will be as big a margin as thought earlier but I'm afraid it's getting late in the day to unseat the smug.....

I'm not convinced it's too late in the day - The swing to the Greens could see a Labour minority govt.  Especially now the Unions are mobilising to support Goff. Not that they are telling people to vote - yeah right.

It just keeps getting worse for Labour.

A Herald DigiPoll out says Labour's support has slipped over a point in the first week of the election campaign.

It's dropped to 29.1 percent, the first time it's been below 30 percent in 12 years.

National's up 0.7 points to 54.2 percent, which would give it a clear majority to govern alone.

The Greens are sitting on 10.1 per cent, its highest rating since the 2002 election campaign at the height of Corngate GM crops scandal.

If it polled that much on election night it would have 13 MPs in Parliament

Bing ! Spending new billions on new 5m and 10m springboards attached to rotten towers. We don’t have the knowledge, the skill, the expertise and the money in our beautiful, small, remote 4 million people country to even maintain our infrastructure to satisfaction. What ? - and then is a worldwide crises also !!!!!

People, wake up - stop the support of the megalomaniac crap of Goff/ Key !

"Policy, not personality"? That's fine, because my vote goes to the government that won't sell off NZ's assets.

Now I don't really care which party it is. All I care about is that NZ's assets remain NZ owned.

A "partial" asset sale is still an asset sale.

Goff lacks charisma? Key is an empty suit? Well who with a brain really cares? It's all about the policies, and if your policy is to sell off NZ's assets then you don't get my vote, no matter who you are.

Our assets are wasted on us. Give them to people who will make the most of them.

Polls paint bleak picture for Labour


Two political polls show Labour's first week of election campaigning has failed to take off.

A Herald Digipoll out yesterday shows Labour's support has dropped to 29.1 percent, the first time it's been below 30 percent in that poll in 12 years.

National's up 0.7 points to 54.2 percent.

A One News Colmar Brunton Poll has National with 56 percent support, and Labour up one point to 30 percent.

Political Editor Barry Soper says the results will be very disappointing for Labour.

"Even though they said that they weren't going to concentrate on personality, they were going to concentrate on policy, it doesn't look like the policy has really worked," he says.

Barry Soper says Labour has taken the front foot when it comes to policy, but it's not resonating with the public.

"The gap really since the last election has been around 20% and now the gap is getting closer to 30% in one of the polls so it'll be very difficult for Labour," he says.

Barry Soper says Phil Goff would have been hoping for a better result, given he's released his policy to raise the eligibility age for superannuation.

 "On the latest result, Labour would lose seven MPs, National would gain nine and the Greens would gain four extra MPs." herald

No option now...quick change of leadership....send Goff to the UN...put lipstick on cunny and hide Klinger King and Dyson in a shed somewhere.

Trouble for Labour is they have fallen below the 30 into the region where only losers and minor parties hang out..."who wants to vote for losers" is the thought that enters the minds of the voters.

Yet more rot from Wolly's addled brain.........


Goofy said he would tell JK where the money would come from steven....are you by chance going to post him a donation...he will love you for it.....!