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Tuesday's Top 10 with NZ Mint: RBNZ stuck in an orthodox Alice in Wonderland while rest of world reforms; US$3.8 trln of dirty money exits China; The need for healthy capitalism; Dilbert

Tuesday's Top 10 with NZ Mint: RBNZ stuck in an orthodox Alice in Wonderland while rest of world reforms; US$3.8 trln of dirty money exits China; The need for healthy capitalism; Dilbert

Here's my Top 10 links from around the Internet at 10 am today in association with NZ Mint.

As always, we welcome your additions in the comments below or via email tobernard.hickey@interest.co.nz.

See all previous Top 10s here.

My must read article today is #5 on the flood of dirty money spreading out of China. Where's it going?

1. The rest of the world is changing - New Reserve Bank Governor Graeme Wheeler may have set out his stall as an ultra-orthodox inflation-targeting central banker on Friday, but the rest of the world is questioning this bedrock upon which New Zealand's policy makers are sitting.

Here's Anatole Kaletsky at Reuters reporting on the debate happening in Britain about quantitative easing, 'helicopter money' and the like.

It's as if New Zealand is in another world where nothing has gone wrong and our policy makers can plough on with their tools intact.

That's not the approach in Europe or the United States.

Eventually this debate and the economic problems underpinning it will come here. The Reserve Bank and Treasury are in their Alice in Wonderland rabbit hole for now. Eventually they'll be forced out, but how many jobs will be lost and much production will be sacrificed.

We were cushioned and veiled from the reality of the 2008 crisis by China's rearguard action, which is now ending.

When will our Treasury and Reserve Bank catch up? Have they lost their Internet connections to the rest of the world?

Here's Kaletsky:

This week an even more radical debate burst  into the open in Britain. Sir Mervyn King, governor of the Bank of England, found himself fighting a rearguard action against a groundswell of support for “dropping money from helicopters” – something proposed by Milton Friedman in 1969 as the ultimate cure for intractable economic depressions and recently described in this column as “Quantitative Easing for the People.”

King had to speak out because the sort of calculations presented here last summer started to catch on in Britain. The BoE has spent £50 billion over the past six months to support bond prices. That could instead have financed a cash handout of £830 for every man, woman and child in Britain, or £3,300 for a typical family of four. In the United States, the $40 billion the Fed has promised to transfer monthly, with no time limit, to banks and bond funds, could instead finance a monthly cash payment of $500 per family – to be continued indefinitely until full employment is restored.

Two weeks ago the British debate on QEP reached a crescendo in a daring speech by Lord Adair Turner, chairman of the Financial Services Authority, and one of the two leading contenders to replace King as governor of the BoE. Turner is a former management consultant famous in Britain for finding imaginative solutions to apparently insoluble issues, from climate change policy to reform of the National Health Service. While he stopped short of publicly endorsing “helicopter money,” Turner hinted strongly in that direction with a call for “still more innovative and unconventional” thinking since QE no longer seems to work. His speech was followed by a spate of editorials in the Financial Times, the BBC and other media outlets about helicopter money and the need for serious BoE thinking about such radical ideas.

Kaletsky then goes on to talk about THAT IMF paper revisiting Chicago:

Which brings us to an even more radical proposal, closely related to the QEP debate, that emerged recently from the IMF. In a research paper that has gone viral among economists, Jaromir Benes and Michael Kumhof, two senior IMF staffers, describe a reform of monetary management that could potentially restore all the output lost in the Great Recession and simultaneously eliminate the government debt burdens of the United States, Britain and most European countries.

These miracles could be achieved without painful tax increases or spending cuts, by restoring to governments the exclusive right to create money they gradually lost to commercial banks. The monopoly right to create money generates a “seignorage tax,” whose capital value is roughly 100 percent of the U.S. gross domestic product, according to the IMF calculations. Transferring this enormous benefit from banks back to governments would allow most national debts to be paid off.

The radical idea of depriving banks of their money-creating function, like the idea of helicopter money, was first proposed by conservative Chicago economists – Henry Simons and Irving Fisher – in 1936. A distinguished conservative pedigree will not make the loss of seignorage rights acceptable to bank lobbyists any more than it makes helicopter money acceptable to conventional central bankers. But if global economic stagnation continues, public patience with conventional responses will run out – and ideas that now seem revolutionary may become conventional wisdom.

2. What Bo's fall means for China - John Garnault from the Sydney Morning Herald is a close observer of China from an Australian point of view, so it's useful for us. He has written an e-book called The Rise and Fall of the House of Bo

The purge of Bo Xilai has been so far mild compared with the days when political rivals were tortured, exploded in plane crashes or imprisoned and left to die in their own vomit.

The novelty of this one is that it is being acted out in the midst of China's information revolution and in front of an increasingly prosperous, educated and sceptical population.

The political explosion of Bo Xilai is blowing open the black box of Chinese politics and laying bare a world of staggering brutality, corruption, hypocrisy and fragility. For the first time, the webs of power and money that bind and also divide China's red aristocracy are being exposed for the world to see.

The demise of Bo Xilai has opened cleavages in the party along factional, ideological and personal lines. The battle over how to frame his legacy has become a proxy war for China's future. The scars that are opening date back to the Cultural Revolution, when Bo Xilai and his colleagues were coming of age.

3. This is a gorgeous high resolution video of Jacob Schwarz's holiday in New Zealand. Watch it in HD.

4. Is it cyclical or structural? - Bloomberg's Linda Yueh writes at FT.com that China's economic growth slowdown may be structural and the strong growth of the last decade may have ended.

The structural slowdown in China may finally be gaining recognition. In the second 30 years of the “reform and opening” that started around 1980, Beijing anticipates a new trend growth rate that will be considerably below the first 30 years. A growth rate of 7-7.5 per cent is likely to be China’s ‘new normal’ rate for the next few years.

When the economy last grew at such a slow pace during the 2008/9 global crisis, unemployment spiked and an estimated 20m workers lost their jobs. This time, employment has held up. Tsinghua University professor and former PBOC adviser David Li has pointed out that employment growth is in the region of 11m in the first 9 months of the year versus the normal target of 9m jobs for the entire year.

Along with getting closer to the technological frontier, which is associated with a growth slowdown as the “catch up” phase begins to end, another reason for China is demography. RBS’s Louis Kuijis, the former Beijing-based World Bank economist, estimates that the working-age population is growing at 0.5 per cent per annum, a third of the previous pace when an 8 per cent growth rate was thought to be necessary to maintain employment. He infers that the trend growth rate may now be around 7.5 per cent.

5. China's dirty money - There's an awful lot of it. Reuters reports Global Financial Integrity reckons US$3.79 trillion has been smuggled out of China in the last decade.

And the outflow - much of it from corruption, crime or tax evasion - is accelerating. China lost $472 billion in 2011, equivalent to 8.3 percent of its gross domestic product, up from $204.7 billion in 2000, Global Financial Integrity, a research and advocacy group that campaigns to limit illegal flows, said in a report on Thursday.

"The magnitude of illicit money flowing out of China is astonishing," said GFI director Raymond Baker. "There is no other developing or emerging country that comes even close to suffering as much in illicit financial flows."

The lost funds between 2000 and 2011 significantly exceeded the amount of money flowing into China as foreign direct investment. The International Monetary Fund calculated FDI inflows at roughly $310 billion between 1998 and 2011.

6. A Finnish parallel currency? - Gillian Tett at FT.com writes about talk of a parallel currency for Finland, which is current part of the euro-zone.

As the eurozone crisis rumbles on, some Finnish business and government officials are quietly mulling the logistics of leaving the currency union.

Nobody in Finland expects this to happen soon, if ever; indeed, most policy makers are strongly opposed to the idea. Particularly since many also hope the crisis is dying down, but as Heikki Neimelaeinen, chief executive of the Municipal Guarantee Board says: “We have started openly discussing the mechanism of euro exiting, without indicating that we will initiate such a process.” And this, in turn, is sparking some curious economic debates.

Take a look, for example, at a recent research paper from Nordea, the Nordic bank. This paper looks at the question of what might happen if Finland ever decided to run a so-called “parallel currency” system. The idea behind this, as Nordea explains, is that at times of stress it can sometimes seem beneficial for countries to maintain more than one currency unit. Most notably, if a country is trying to leave one currency, keeping that as legal tender alongside a second currency for a period can ensure a country honours its old contracts – and thus avoids a technical default.

7. The need for healthy capitalism - Here's Hugo Dixon at Reuters talking about how the crisis is not the result of too much freedom. Instead, it was the distortion of free enterprise that was the problem. He diagnoses four sicknesses.

Sickness number one was Alan Greenspan’s habit of lowering interest rates at the first sign of trouble during the pre-crunch era. Investors dubbed this the “Greenspan put”. The theory was that, since the U.S. Federal Reserve would always ride to the rescue, it made sense to take high risks. Fear was numbed and greed left untrammelled. The natural balance of a healthy organism was distorted.

The second malady was caused by an excessive willingness to bail out bankrupt banks. In a well-functioning free market, investors would bear the consequences of poor decisions. If a bank teetered on the brink, shareholders would be wiped out and bondholders would suffer. But, with the exception of Lehman Brothers and a few much smaller cases, bondholders were bailed out instead of being bailed in.

The third illness is caused by the heads-I-win-tails-you-lose bets that financiers and traders were able to enjoy during the upswing. If everything went well, they made a fortune; if everything collapsed, taxpayers picked up the pieces. Not surprisingly, they spun the roulette wheel. Such privatisation of gains and socialisation of losses is not healthy capitalism. It is a caricature of the free market.

The fourth disease is caused by distortions in the tax system. The most egregious is the ability of companies in most of the world to deduct interest costs before calculating the profit on which they have to pay tax. Payments to shareholders, by contrast, are typically not tax-deductible. This skewed playing field incentivises companies to leverage themselves up to the gills. That happened during the bubble particularly with banks, private equity groups and real estate businesses – all of which then got into trouble.

8. Publish and be arrested - The Guardian reports a Greek journalist who published a here-to-fore secret list of wealthy and influential Greek tax evaders has been arrested. The influential Greeks are not happy.

Kostas Vaxevanis, editor of the Greek magazine Hot Doc, published the so-called "Lagarde list." It's an electronic file given in 2010 by then French finance minister Christine Lagarde to the Greek government. Vaxevanis, who argues that he was exercising press freedom by publishing the list, was arrested for breaching Greece's data privacy law by revealing citizens' private information, according to a police spokesman.

It names 2,000 Greeks with Swiss accounts who are regarded as potential tax evaders. Yet the Athens government is alleged to have failed to take any action in the two years since it received the information.

9. Tom Traubert's Blues - By Tom Waits. Best Waltzing Matilda I've heard

 

10. Totally Jon Stewart on how Mitt Romney picked winners and losers while at Bain Capital.

 

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Remember we welcome robust, respectful and insightful debate. We don't welcome abusive or defamatory comments and will de-register those repeatedly making such comments. Our current comment policy is here.

46 Comments

No.3 - thats why Im here........... she's a great place to live!!!!

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#1 I find it most ironic that the first speech by the new RBNZ governor is titled "....in the post crisis " yet all he is talking is as if the crisis never mattered nor even happened. It does not occur  that there is a brave new world of monetary policies out there now and that new and innovative ways are needed in the practice of Banking and monetary policy.

 

Please note I am not saying he should endose nor follow the "new" policies of US, ECD, UK etc ala QE (now QE4rv aka QEforever) but he should recognise that traditional classical monetary theory no longer works and that new thinking is important.

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Re: #1  My wife, currently in London,  regaled me with stories of property riches being made by old city associates with QE bounty - 20% returns over the last few months apparently. Some are thinking it's time to give the bond trading up and move to friendly tax haven retirements - they cannot thank Merv enough.

 

I guess others now want a direct piece of the action since they have little capital to lever against, unlike my old associates.

 

They too will then be looking to retire early,  just like myself. 

 

I guess it's a case of working out this is a game for the exclusive and not inclusive.

 

Youth is only over when we stop equating what should be with what is and always has been - courtesy John Ward.

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Thats because rates cannot go low enough to stimulate by the amount needed, ie negative....I think Paul Krugman or similar said we'd need a OCR of -6% which is of course farcical....but then it seems everything else is so what the heck.

regards

 

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House prices had crashed in pars of US and Europe - therefore they will plunge in NZ too... - NOT!

US is doing QE, therefore NZ should do so too,,, - NOT!

EU is about to dump a whole lot of "helicopter money", so NZ should do so too... - NOT!

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

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Alex,

"It" is broke, literally. We have a current account deficit of ~$10 billion a year; thus equating to more or less that loss of wealth, or increased indebtedness. We as a country are spending that much more than we are earning. That seems broken to me. 

If we paid off some of our foreign debt with printed money, so not increasing the money supply here, how would that actually be a bad thing? Yes it would likely reduce the exchange rate; in my opinion a critical step to lower if not totally reduce the current account deficit.

Alternative capital controls may work; although less elegantly in my view.

Whatever, we certainly have a broken economy; measured by the current account. 

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Stephen L - If you want to fix the current account deficit we have to improve our productivity and simply start exporting more goods than we import.

 

There are far too many people working in Govt and it's Agencies who are unproductive, large consumers etc and we need more of these people working in private enterprise.

 

Printing money will not solve the systemic issues that NZ is suffering from in fact printing will be detrimental to the economy. Until Govt spending is reduced and a transfer of these employees into quality employment types earning export dollars the situation will not improve in the current account deficit.

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Your first sentence is of course correct; but what will be the catalyst for us to start exporting more, or importing less? The IMF suggests the exchange rate needs to come down, to start working elasticities in supply and demand. (I agree with them).

There may well be a number of unproductive people in government, but identifying them seems notoriously difficult. Always trying to do so, to keep government efficient, is I agree also a worthy endeavour. But it's not going to suddenly fix our current account deficit.

Wages and many other costs, in our local currency, are for very good reasons, very sticky.

So to get those elasticities working, the exchange rate needs to come down. And then what is the best method to do that?

I think carefully managed printing is the best way; but there may be others.

All other talk avoidng a devaluation or capital controls is just saying we don't really actually want to get the current account deficit down at all.

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We already export more than we import, most years anyway. The CA deficit is caused by what used to be called the invisibles - mostly interest payments to overseas lenders and profits to overseas owned companies. Forecast by Treasury and the RBNZ to equal $12,000,000,000 to $15,000,000,000 P.A. over the next couple of years. That is a massive loss of wealth to the people of this country. About $8,000 per household per year!

We fund this by borrowing and selling productive assets so more interest payments and profits need to be paid to our foreign owners wich will be funded by (you guessed it) more borrowing and asset sales. You can see where this is going - general impoverishment, debt serfdom and loss of sovereignty. We will have to run really fast just to stand still, unless we can conjure up a new dairy and tourist industry we will keep going backwards in our net international investment position.

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We will have to run really fast just to stand still, unless we can conjure up a new dairy and tourist industry we will keep going backwards in our net international investment position.

 

It's over already - that's why the 'panic pants' commentators are suddenly demanding NZ 'prints' money to meet the bill.

 

The foreign corporates will and probably already have had plenty to say about that. Slow deaths are preferable to sudden devaluation, loss of value outcomes - gives the grifters time to suck a little more out of the suffering Kiwi.

 

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New Zealand has more people leaving  each year than anywhere in the world and a total number not living here at all greater than anywhere in the world- except countries ravaged by war or famine. This has got to tell us something. These sort of numbers are hard to make excuses for. The problem is 1. the total numbers and 2. What those numbers mean. Large numbers of people who have lived here do not want to live here anymore. This is not s good sign. They can be replaced by people living somewhere else to keep the total numbers up and make it not look so bad, bad fundamentally we have a problem.

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#9.  Bernard, nope - here's the best:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VktJNNKm3B0

 

It's not as the graphic states - not Irish Rovers, rather John McDermott.  That album Danny Boy gets an absolute hammering around here :-).

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Nice one. I have a thing for Tom Waits though. The voice does it for me.

cheers

Bernard

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I feel like I need a new Lear Jet so bring on the helicopter money deliveries please -

NB: GPS coordinates will be provided on request

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no 3

could have been filmed anywhere.

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#5 HEADLINE - China's outflow of dirty money - where is it going?

 

There's an interesting task for you Bernard. Sift through the Productivity Commission Report and Bill English's response and see if you can find any reference to whether new zealand is or has been the receptacle of any of that.

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#5 - where is china's outflow of dirty money going ?

 

Well, it seems the Hong Kong Authorities have a different perspective to the New Zealand Productivity Commission and Bill English

 

Over here

http://www.interest.co.nz/property/61762/government-releases-response-productivity-commissions-housing-affordability-report#comment-712668

 

WTF reports this day, HK has just slapped a 15% tax on non-resident property buyers - read what you like into that, together with the implications for new zealand.

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#9 Tom Waits is always good (ish) but my own fave is Burma Shave...a great elegy for Godzone at present, I suspect - 'ain't nothing but a wide spot on the road'....

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With the governments printing money, surely they wouldn't mind a bit of counterfitting going on? Have a similar effect, increases the amount of money in circulation. If the govt does it, surely they sanction others getting in on the act too. What right would they have to stop others. May make an interesting court case.....eh Lawyers?????

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I remember seeing a WW II film about the Germans planning to destroy the UK economy by printing and distributing UK currency.  How will the UK Central bank by doing exactly the same thing not also destroy the UK economy?  If a Government can solve it's economic problems by just distributing money to it's own citizens then there should never be another economic crisis - yeah right!.

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#1 I am very suprised that Bernard seems to be supporting some of the desparate measures beeb taken by offshore very large economies to sustain their potentially large volatile populations. Kicking the can does not solve the problem

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Iain Parker must be having a chuckle at this website's expense. Public Credit is suddenly in vogue even at the IMF. Detractors will label it 'funny money" etc but when it comes down to it, why are private banks more worthy of creating credit with interest to loan to people than elected governments or Reserve Banks spending it into circulation on public projects?

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Iain Parker is still very much in action, you can find him on facebook causing mayhem.

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@ 1 That's not the approach in Europe or the United States

Wonderful role models Bernard!!!!!

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#1

"It's as if New Zealand is in another world where nothing has gone wrong and our policy makers can plough on with their tools intact."

No Bernard, as you know, Sir JK likes to focus on one thing at a time and gets so engrosed he can't see anything else, that's why he can't remember dot com, he has a bigger vision. Asset sales are of course an important part of Sir JK's vision of NZ, and that is why they must be persued at all costs, his vision needs it.

It seems clear to me what that vision is, and, as i see it, it goes like this.

Sir would like NZ to adopt what he sees as the best practices from around the world and for NZ to adopt them wholeheartedly. They are.

Have an American style corporate NZ and kept in place by a China style government. That is why we have to have asset sales, a TPP, super cities, a super ministry, and the take over of ECAN, and god knows what else his vision incorporates.

The final outcome will be a corpoate NZ held in place by half a dozen super, all powerful, bureaucrats.

 

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Here's one from "left field". Who said we need banks anyway? All we need is a money exchange just like we have a "Share exchange".

Somewhere for money to go in and to be distributed out with clear transparent Deposit and lending criteria.  No need for manipulation of economies and massive wastes of public money.

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The QE in the US and UK is for the banks and only the banks and does little for the real economy. QE for the public or a Keen style debt jubilee gives the money direct to the people, bypassing the banks. Just giving people money to spend doesn't address the underlying debt problem or the credit system. The debt jubilee with compulsory debt repayment, as long as accompanied by bank/credit reform and a revamp of the tax and welfare system offers the most promising solution. Transition to a low debt economy without a depression.

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#1

My global veiw

The Western world do not want to fix the GFC, they only want to pretend to be trying to fix it. The reason being is they want China to become like the West and be a consumer society which China is resisting. The Western world will drag out the GFC for as long as it takes to change China. The leadership in China will be desperate for the GFC to end so they can get back to exporting to the West, as it was in the past, but it wont happen.

In the meantime China will have a new leadership which will be faced with growing unrest and political divisions. There will be a growing surge towards the old style communism. Ultimately something will have to give and so the leadership will push consumerism to the max in order to get the economy going and get unemployment down. Once China becomes a consumption and borrowing society, just like us, the job will be done and the corporates can take over China as another step in the corporate empire. And Europe will have thier fiscal union.

The American dollar will always be the international currency.

The world can now go back to what it was before the GFC except we will all have a lower standard of living.

That is my brief vision of what will happen.

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Mike,

I agree with nearly all your view. The bit that is less clear, is the "corporates" taking over China? You imply that will be the Western based corporates. I do think China will try and engineer a current account surplus as long as it can get away with it- just as Germany, Japan, and others are. By definition, those with the surpluses will be controlling the "corporates", as they will be the owners.

We in New Zealand (in particular successive governments, and a stuck in a time warp Reserve Bank) seem absolutely determined for us as a country to own as little that is productive as we can; and so we are letting the Chinese, Japanese, Germans et all buy up what the Aussies don't own. (And those surplus countries will actually be heavily represented on the share registers of BHP, NAB, CBA, ANZ, Woolworths and every other major Australian company).

 

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Re #1: We live in a very strange world when the idea of governments boldly printing money themselves instead of licensing banks to do it is considered to be "revolutionary". Do any of these guys ever read any history books? Look what happened in the USA when the Greenbackers printed money. Look what happened when The French produced Assignats after absorbing John Law's ideas. Look at Weimar Germany, and more recently Zimbabwe. These are not revolutionary ideas, they are old tried-and-tested disastrous ideas that have ruined national economies in every case! The only difference between RBNZ Governor Graeme Wheeler's ideas and those of Anatole Kaletsky (and Bernard) is that Wheeler believes that the value of our currency should be destroyed more slowly than Kaletsky does. They are all, neverthless, believers in the idea that the State can and should control the value of money. It is only the Austrian school (and anybody with common sense) that believes otherwise.

Yes, as Bernard says, jobs will be lost and production will be sacrificed. In fact jobs have already been lost and production sacrificed, and as the international money-machines spring into action, this process will accelerate. Bernard is suggesting that Wheeler should put his foot on the accelerator!

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Money/currency is a unit of exchange, a lubricant for the economy to facilitate the exchange of goods and services without direct barter. As a unit of exchange it has to be generally accepted. It does not spring spontaneously from the ether. While private currencies are possible they would not be universally accepted. So a central universally accepted currency has to be "printed" at some point to facilitate economic activity. Should it be by the RB/Govt and spent into existence or by private banks as credit and loaned into existence with interest? At the moment as long as a bank has enough Tier 1 capital, there is no limit to how much credit it can generate. They also control the economy by determining where that credit flows. How could a govt that kept just enough money in circulation to faciltate the free flow of goods and services, and  full employment be worse?

 

The cases you and others cite of hyper inflation are economies that had already collapsed before the money printing because of reparations, civil war, revolution etc. The money printing was a last desperate effort by respective governments

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My understanding is that Bernard advocates measures to bring the NZD down to competitive levels. Whether he prefers capital controls, or disincentives for money coming in; or us printing money for our own needs rather than have commercial banks do it for us, I'm happy to leave to him to be clear on.

Assuming we did get the NZD down; how would that destroy jobs in NZ (other than retailers of imported stuff)?. Surely it will make exporters and import substituters, as well as NZ based toursim, more competitive. And that will encourage them to employ more staff.

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Our exporters and manufacturers actually make something unlike our housing ponzi scheme, so as far as I am concerned we need to be addressing teh high dolla r by at least 5% maybe 10%, ie 0.76 or lower.

Im not sure exactly where BH is in detail, except he thinks something has to be done to correct this situation.

Doing something is not without risk...I'd look at dropping the OCR to 1% as a first thing, that and a tobin tax and re-look in 6 months.

What I think will happen is we'll do nothing while our non-tradables inflation of 5%+ hides the massive pain that the manufacturers and exporters are under.

These ppl produce goods, employ and bring in foreign exchange....Im gob smacked that nothing is being done to keep them alive.

regards

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These examples do not apply today right now.

5 or 6 years from now, yes its looking very probable, but we need to see huge deflation first aka the 1930s.

regards

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Hi Australian

John Law was a scotsman wanted for murder after he killed a man in a duel and dueling was illegal. He fled scotland and started up a bank. John Law also made claim that banks should ALWAYS have gold to back up a banks currency then he forgot to keep his own word.

So, the government DID NOT print money John Laws bank did. The government did what all governments do and borrowed the money from the bank.

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#1. Really, tell us Bernard that you've gone Looney Tunes as a device. Good copy?

Ergophobia

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wtf : The subject you are raising here is an important one, ie what is money? Money is in fact part of the barter system, and it has spontaneously arisen as the most convenient thing to barter with. People often forget that the world functioned quite happily without paper money for thousands of years. In more recent times it was a promissory note that said something like "I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of x weight of silver" or something similar, so it was backed by a metal commodity in the bank. These were what you might call "private" currencies. It has slowly changed to not promising anything more than being legal tender. It is just a commodity like anything else, and its value is determined by what other thing you might want to exchange it for. It has no intrinsic value, and its value is not determined by the State but by the market. As such, there is no reason for the government to get involved in its control. Anything would work as money, providing it was portable and valuable and divisible, which is why gold, silver and copper have worked well, (and also cigarettes in POW camps.) However the government likes the idea of being able to print money because it frees it from the shackles of financial prudence. After the Revolution in France in 1789 the government was in deep debt and was not balancing the budget (sound familiar?). The economy was stagnant, but not in a crisis. The economy revived for a while when they printed the Assignats, so it seemed like a great success, but it eventually collapsed as the inevitable inflation of prices took hold. Another bubble economy. Do we want to go down this road along with the rest?    

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 It has no intrinsic value, and its value is not determined by the State but by the market.

Right now that is very true; the NZD's value is being determined by a global market, which has many other distortions (including trillions of hot Chinese money looking for a home as today's top ten notes). Other major distortions include massive printing by the US, another $150 billion announced by Japan today; the UK and many others. These countries are in a global race- an absolute economic war- to decide who will own all the spoils at the end. 

By being a pacifist, NZ is determinedly saying "we are happy to own nothing. We are happy in the end to being wage slaves". Explain to me how that is not the case by letting the market have its way- a market where nearly all other major countries have long abandoned this gentlemen's game that you would have us play. Where do you think Japan's and China's trillions are ending up? With any sucker who will play their game, that's where.

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Hi Australian

as you say "what is money?"

Pre European times Maori society operated just fine without money and as i understand it without barter. In the Kainga (village) everyone just played their part, without question, to ensure the survival of the Kainga - No money - No barter. Other tribes throughout the world also lived in these none monetary, none barter societies. So money or barter is not necessary to run a successful society.

 

However when we compare these tribal villages with other societies that use barter or money we notice that they are more advanced. So money or barter advances a society at a much faster pace. If a person has more money than others in a community, then they enjoy more priviliges, and so it becomes an incentive to find ways and means to get more money and in doing so the community advances more quickly.

 

So "what is money/"  =  a means to advance a society more quickly by reward

I hope this very brief explanation answers the question.

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All very well to criticise the RBNZ for sticking to orthodoxy but what is Bernard suggesting? Nothing specific at all. Is he saying that the governor should target the exchange rate or is he saying he should target GDP change? Does he think the Reserve Bank should lose its independence and be explicitly controlled by the Finance Minister on a day by day basis.

 

Everything has its consequences. Something somewhere else on this site today noting that tying the Hong Kong dollar to the USD has resulted in very low interest rates and an 89% increase in property values. What hope for a first home buyer in Auckland then?

 

An indebted little country like ours cant afford to lose the confidence of the international community.  Russel Norman as associate finance minister with control of the Reserve Bank and a mixture of policy objectives including 3% GDP growth and a currency at 70US cents would create a rout which would take decades to recover from.

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Quite right the idea of Govt's or their agencies printing money is a road to disaster. NZ suffered considerable pain to gain market confidence in our currency after a period of high sustained inflation. The idea we throw our hard won credibility out the window one day is nuts and the proponents know nothing of sound money or history.

That RBNZ should try and target a level for the currency would be a nightmare in the making .

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So banks are better agents for creating the money supply and we should kowtow to the armageddon threat of the markets? I think "credibility" is being confused with obsequiousness

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Hong Kong has averaged a current account surplus since 2000 of close to 10% of GDP. Its GDP per head in PPP terms has gone from ~US$28,000 in 2003 to US$ 50,000 now. So some growth in their housing market is probably not a huge issue. Our PPP GDP per capita has gone from ~US$23k to US$30k in the same period. Not disastrous, but nowhere in their league. And a reasonable amount of our GDP we then transfer off to the new owners of the country, in the rapidly increasing invisibles deficit.

An indebted little country like ours, as you correctly describe us, doesn't so much need to keep the confidence of the international community, as to start paying off its debt- and not by selling whatever assets we still have left. 

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Worth noting our exchange rate in 2002 was US$0.48; meaning our PPP income in NZ$ then was NZ$47800; the exchange rate is now US0.81; meaning our PPP GDP per head is now NZ$34600. So we've declined by 28%.

Reference site is http://www.tradingeconomics.com/new-zealand/gdp-per-capita-ppp

Someone on here frequently says our system is not broken. Rose tinted glasses indeed.

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So , do you think if the NZD/ USD cross went back to 48 cents that the holders of New Zealand dollars ( ie New Zealanders ) would be better off?

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Waripori, Am not sure if you really want my views, or are really hinting that you would like to keep the short term lifestyle funded by foreigners and debt as long as we can; but anyway here they are.

A plausible devaluation might be say 20%- I believe the amount the IMF estimates would be required for us to get the current account in balance. So that would be say NZD1 equalling USD0.65.

The sort of action that would cause that to happen would be effectively not taking as much foreign money in; and replacing that directly with NZDs. Probable effects of that would likely be inflation of imported goods and services of say 10% (less than the devaluation as some products are priced to the market, and there is local margin and value add on top. In the same way I don't believe imported prices have dropped 68%, or anything like that, with that appreciation in the NZD in that time.)

Overall that might cause inflation in NZ of say 3% to max 5% while the initial devaluation worked through. Wages broadly would be expected to go up by say that 5%; but more so in export or import substitution businesses as demand picked up.

I don't imagine significant appreciation in non productive asset (house) prices; although some controls should be in place to check they were not now sold to oversaes buyers more cheaply in foreign terms.

Productive assets should go up in NZD terms, as they tend to be sold on multiples of earnings; and those earnings should go up.

So if your lifestyle was such that you were heavily reliant on imported goods, or addicted to a far off annual holiday, then the adjustment might be more painful; but overall not nearly as painful as one's initial thoughts might suggest. And we would manage it with then no extra debt, and the chance to gradually grow our economy and wealth. There would be more productive and satisfying jobs, to keep more people here.

Rose tinted glasses maybe; but those are my views.

 

 

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