sign up log in
Want to go ad-free? Find out how, here.

Thursday's Top 10 at 10: 250 years of very low interest rates; Britain's debt-fueled import boom almost as bad as NZ's; Post crash economics; Dilbert

Thursday's Top 10 at 10: 250 years of very low interest rates; Britain's debt-fueled import boom almost as bad as NZ's; Post crash economics; Dilbert

Here's my Top 10 links from around the Internet. As always, we welcome your additions in the comments below or via email to bernard.hickey@interest.co.nz

See all previous Top 10s here.

My must read today is #6 for the glory of a chart going back 300 years. 

1. Lower for longer - Central bankers and economists all around the world are scratching their heads over why interest rates are staying so low for so long.

It's not just central banks that are forcing them down there and keeping them there.

Even in markets where central banks are not printing, they remain remarkably low.

The Economist's Free Exchange has a look at this and points to some disturbing ideas.

Maybe they're this low because investors and savers are now building much lower economic growth and inflation forecasts into their expectations. 

Maybe savers know more than the bankers. As populations age and inequality grows, lower economic growth seems to be baked in to the outlook.

Here's Free Exchange:

Before the crisis Mr Bernanke credited a “global saving glut” originating in China and other emerging markets with holding down long-term interest rates. Although China’s current-account surplus has shrunk in the past five years, Goldman Sachs reckons that the proportion of emerging-market populations in their prime saving years (aged 35-69) is climbing, and won’t peak until 2032.

Although governments acted as borrowers of last resort in the years immediately after the crisis, most are now whittling back their structural deficits, a process likely to continue for several years, freeing more savings.

2. Oh dear. Where have we seen this before? - Ambrose Evans Pritchard writes at the Telegraph about how Britain is expected to have the worst trade deficit in 25 years as the Government cranks up a good old debt-fueled consumption boom with its 'Help to Buy' scheme to help households leverage up to buy houses...

Ambrose points out that Britain's current account deficit of 4.4% of GDP is the worst of the major industrialised nations. It's true New Zealand is not major. Ours is forecast to rise over 6% in the next couple of years. No worries then...

Here's Ambrose:

With the exception of the late 1980s, Britain has not run a current account deficit of this magnitude since the Second World War. It raises concerns that the recovery is being fed by a premature return to bad habits of house price inflation and credit-driven spending rather than a revival of manufacturing and productive investment.

3. It'll never happen - The idea of a Robin Hood Tax on financial transactions has finally jumped the Atlantic and is being talked about in Congress, Mother Jones reports.

Jeffrey Sachs is involved. No relation to Goldman.

4. Baby boomers happy - The cohort that has fared best over the last five or six years has been the baby boomer generation. Here's The Telegraph with a report on how comfortable they feel. 

It adds to the controversy surrounding the 'baby boomer' generation and whether they are benefiting 'unfairly' from a range of taxes, benefits and other financial factors which younger generations will not enjoy to the same degree.

Debate around the issue was fuelled earlier this year by the the Bishop of London Richard Chartres' who said baby-boomers - generally regarded as those born between 1945 and 1960 - were a "fortunate generation."

In Britain 80pc of over-50s reported that "they are satisfied with the financial situation of their household," according to the research, making the UK seventh in a ranking of 56 countries.

5. The post-crash economics society - The Guardian reports a group of British economics students are now challenging the usual neo-classical economics they get taught. Hear, Hear.

The organisers criticise university courses for doing little to explain why economists failed to warn about the global financial crisis and for having too heavy a focus on training students for City jobs.

A growing number of top economists, such as Ha-Joon Chang, who teaches economics at Cambridge University, are backing the students.

Next month the society plans to publish a manifesto proposing sweeping reforms to the University of Manchester's curriculum, with the hope that other institutions will follow suit.

Joe Earle, a spokesman for the Post-Crash Economics Society and a final-year undergraduate, said academic departments were "ignoring the crisis" and that, by neglecting global developments and critics of the free market such as Keynes and Marx, the study of economics was "in danger of losing its broader relevance".

6. I love charts - This very, very long term chart of British long bond yields and government debt ratios is a cracker, coutesty of Paul Krugman. I'm not sure what it means for today, but it sure is fascinating. It seems to show long bond yields returning to where they were for 250 years up until 1950 or so, and that UK government debt is nowhere near as high as it's been for most of the last 300 years.

Krugman's suggestion is that high government debt doesn't necessarily cause high interest rates and that maybe today's low interest rates aren't that unusual. 

7. Reinhart weighs in - Carmen Reinhart, she of the Rogoff and Reinhart 'This Time it's different' debt tipping point duo, has weighed in with her own comments on this chart via Bloomberg.

She reckons Krugman is missing the fact that for long periods those apparently low interest rates were actually quite high in real terms because of deflation that was happening at the time -- particularly the 1930s. She argues, remember, that high public debt slows economic growth, particularly in peace time.

This is one interesting passage about how Britian and Holland maintained high public debt during the mid 1800s, she writes:

How were these two countries able to support such high debt loads for decades? Both played a prominent role as international financial centers; and in both cases, high public debt coexisted with high private saving. The two nations, in effect, were creditors to the rest of the world -- unlike the U.S. today.

The U.K. and the Netherlands enjoyed a substantial and well-documented transfer of resources from their colonies that no modern economy can count on. Other structural forces were in play, too: Peacetime reductions in military spending helped to reduce their debts. Today, structural forces -- notably, the fiscal demands of aging populations -- are mostly pushing the other way.

8. RIP Lou Reid - This is my first Top 10 since the death of the great, grumpy a-hole of a man. Such a hero, but such a pain with it.

Here's the best obit I've read yet, courtesy of Grantaland. 

9. An amateur Mayor - Len Brown ain't got nuthin on this guy. Jon Stewart talks about the Canadian crack smokin' Toronto Mayor Rob Ford.

10. Another Mayor - The Daily Show's Jon Stewart talks about the election of the anti-Bloomberg - New York Mayor Bill de Blasio.

 

We welcome your comments below. If you are not already registered, please register to comment.

Remember we welcome robust, respectful and insightful debate. We don't welcome abusive or defamatory comments and will de-register those repeatedly making such comments. Our current comment policy is here.

25 Comments

#6   I love long term charts too Bernard.  Low or no interest earning for the next 250 years.   And thats apparently returning to situation normal.  !!!!

So, work from 20 to 70 and then live to 100.  You need to support yourself for 80 years from 50 years work with no return from savings.   eg.  Save 40 % of income while working.

 

Up
0

In what form?

Guaranteed by whom?

and buying what, then?

Up
0

#6   I love long term charts too Bernard.  Low or no interest earning for the next 250 years.   And thats apparently returning to situation normal.  !!!!

 

Possibly not.

 

As was long predicted and foreshadowed (and analyzed here previously with the proposed FRN term sheet shown half a year ago), after nearly two years of foreplay with the idea of issuing inflation-friendly floating rate notes, moments ago as part of its refunding announcement, the Treasury announced the first floater issuance in history would take place on January 29, 2014, will have a 2 year tenor, and will amount to between $10 and $15 billion. Read more

 

The IMF had this to say: IV. FLOATING RATE NOTE “PUTS”—ARE THEY FORTHCOMING? (page15)

 

Historically, at the time of the discussions leading up to the Fed-Treasury Accord of 1951 which ended an extended period of artificially suppressed interest rates on Treasury bonds, there was much internal debate about the potential deleterious impact on bondholders from a ―surprise rise in rates.
 

There was also concern about a potential buyers strike and/or a fear that new market equilibrium would entail a sharp spike in rates. This discussion was conditioned by the similar situation faced by the U.S. Treasury in 1919 after it promised to stabilize bond prices during and after WWI.
 

This policy caused conflict with certain Fed policymakers and the eventual losses on Liberty bonds were still remembered by Congress and the Treasury in 1951, 30 years later.
 

As a consequence, at the time of the announcement of the Accord, buyback options were offered by the Treasury, that is the U.S. Treasury offered to swap the outstanding stock of long-term debt with new long-term debt with higher coupons (coupled with restrictions on sales before maturity).
 

The idea was to cushion the market from capital losses—this was a subsidy upfront.
 

Might the U.S. Treasury go down a similar path again in conjunction with an eventual Fed exit strategy?
 

In the current environment, markets have witnessed a 30 year secular decline in bond market yields (unlike the interval before 1951). Market will indeed have to adapt if there is rise in rates from near zero to a ―neutral fed funds rate of 400 bps and a "normal' 5 percent yield on 2-year U.S. Treasuries.
 

The recent TBAC‘s proposal for FRNs seems an obvious option to cushion the transition for the market. As an indication that the eventual unwinding and normalization of the yield curve will take time and inflict pain on holders of fixed income debt, the market appears already to be requesting such "puts". So FRNs is one likely way for Fed to absorb the market‘s losses on long term bonds.
 

Up
0

Aka Japan? china? (no return on savings).

What does your income now go on?  debt financing of your house?  If you can no longer fund such debt as you have to save, what does that do to (present) house values?  make them plunge? back to where they were over the 250 year period?

Yes I strongly suspect,

regards

 

 

 

Up
0

Re #1. Low credit demand caused by excessive debt. For those countries who haven't QEd, their exchange rates have them by the balls.

Up
0

Yes, Hughey. The feet of the honourable passengers are getting wet. There we agree,

 

The question is: why?

Up
0

What you look at is a system that is giving ever declining returns as it approaches its maximum output.

What you want to do is put in yet more straws to get more output, when in fact all you will achieve is a) the agrigate wont change, just the profits of a few at the expense of others with straws.  b) It will deplete faster.

So we what see is can kicking ever bigger cans ever shorter distances.

To accues someone of being a Luddite is funny from you considering you inability to understand engineering and science...

regards

 

Up
0

Same planet hugey, except its all changed around 2006....try to keep up old chap.

regards

Up
0

Burn of the day

Up
0

I asked Paveltich, formally, some time ago, to raise his game.

 

The inability to do so, mirrors the inability to do any other kind of original thinking.

 

But then, that' was never the aim, was it Hughey? You're just a one-shot blunder.

Up
0

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldWSc1Rtx9M

 

can you remember why you can't get it up?

Up
0

... raise your game , Hugh ? ... is Mr PDK inferring that you should become a rabbit farmer or summit ???

 

Seriously think I've lost the gist of this thread ...

Up
0

OK I'll point out the elephant in the room: Bernard, a day late! What's more important? Being a journalist or entertaining us?

Up
0

.... hey fella , it's rude to point at Bernard and say , " look , the elephant in the room " ...

 

He's lost 30 kilos .... Mrs Hickey knocked his block off ...

Up
0

Touche

Up
0

... no ... I think it's a toupe , not a touche .... ssssssshhhhhh .... Mrs Hickey doesn't know !

Up
0

Try this from Andy Xie the bubble expert.

http://english.caixin.com/2013-11-05/100599385.html

Up
0

Colin....    Great article by Andy Xie...    thks for the link.

I agree with what he wrote.

Up
0

1. " Central bankers and economists all around the world are scratching their heads over why interest rates are staying so low for so long."

Lower for longer - as predicted.

Rate hikes anyone?

Maybe the old "normal" will not return as predicted by all our Aussie bank economists on a weekly basis. Must be annoying being wrong for 4 or so years  -  "rates rising... soon .... quick fix your mortgage..."  

 

 

Up
0

# 6  Orthodox economics. At best intellectually blinkered, at worst academically and professionally corrupt - cue Columbia Business School

 

 

 

Up
0

#1 a) Oh lets see wrong economics model? try keynes / zero bound trap

b) debt over-hang

c) Austerity so loss of jobs, fear.

d) Energy cost

e) Hosuieng bubble

I mean really that lost?

 

 

 

Up
0

Wow. Seems a TPP type agreement is now on the cards for the UK and Europe too. Called the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership. Combine it with our TPP and NAFTA and you have a ring of agreements that look like corporate fascism to me.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/04/us-trade-deal-full…

You don't believe it? Here's what one of the judges on these tribunals says about his work. "When I wake up at night and think about arbitration, it never ceases to amaze me that sovereign states have agreed to investment arbitration at all ... Three private individuals are entrusted with the power to review, without any restriction or appeal procedure, all actions of the government, all decisions of the courts, and all laws and regulations emanating from parliament."

There are no corresponding rights for citizens. We can't use these tribunals to demand better protections from corporate greed. As the Democracy Centre says, this is "a privatised justice system for global corporations".

Up
0

Thanks for posting the article, I read it and I would like to point out that there is no mention of Auckland property prices anywhere in the article.

Up
0

Not a fan of his comedy but good on Russel Brand for having a crack at the political status quo in Britain. Applies equally here. This certainly resonated with me. For the life of me I can't see any real difference between Labour and National, especially between Parker and English. The nominally liberal and conservative factions of the same party. And now the Greens under Norman want to join the charade.

The only reason to vote is if the vote represents power or change. I don't think it does. I fervently believe that we deserve more from our democratic system than the few derisory tit-bits tossed from the carousel of the mighty, when they hop a few inches left or right. The lazily duplicitous servants of The City expect us to gratefully participate in what amounts to little more than a political hokey cokey where every four years we get to choose what colour tie the liar who leads us wears....

The reason these coalitions are so easily achieved is that the distinctions between the parties are insignificant. My friend went to a posh "do" in the country where David Cameron, a man whose face resembles a little painted egg, was in attendance. Also present were members of the opposition and former prime minister Tony Blair. Whatever party they claim to represent in the day, at night they show their true colours and all go to the same party.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/05/russell-brand-democratic-system-newsnight

Up
0