‘Up the Wahs’: From fireworks and the All Blacks to capital gains tax, TVNZ leaders’ debate sees Chris Hipkins and Christopher Luxon clash

The first election debate for the two men who want to be the country's prime minister was scrappy and fast paced, covering a large range of topics from fireworks, the arts to the tax system, AI and health insurance. 

The list of topics that host Jack Tame raised in Tuesday evening's leaders' debate was impressive - when the leaders were not bickering or talking over each other. 

A group of 100 undecided voters were tasked to rate performance, with Hipkins on 49% and Luxon on 24% while 27% remained undecided at the end of the debate. 

Performance scores by undecided voters in the TVNZ leaders' debate - TVNZ

Quickfire round:

• Both won’t ban fireworks from public sale. 
• Both agree it is the government's responsibility to financially support the arts. 
• Hipkins believes every international artist coming to New Zealand should have a New Zealand opening act, and Luxon does not. 
• Hipkins has not pulled a sickie "lately" and Luxon said he has not pulled a sickie.
• On choosing between the All Blacks winning the Rugby World Cup next year or the Warriors winning the Premiership, Hipkins said “up the Wahs” while Luxon chose the All Blacks.
• Both wished they had learnt more te reo Māori. 
• Both could not give a yes or no answer if it was morally acceptable for any one person to be a billionaire.

When it came to increasing the Superannuation age, Hipkins said no government he would lead would raise the retirement age whereas Luxon said he would raise it from 65 to 67 over time. 

Hipkins will keep the school cellphone ban and the gang patch ban. Luxon said he would put 1000 more gang members in prison.

Both leaders said they would extend the temporary $50 tax credit for working for families if petrol prices stay high.

On the last time they had changed their mind on something, Hipkins said he changed his mind on CGT and Luxon could not think of a policy example but said he does change his mind when he gets good advice.

On whether New Zealanders without private health insurance could be confident they would receive the treatment when they need it, Luxon said yes "but there's more to do", while Hipkins said no.

Both have private health insurance.

The tax system

When it comes to the tax system, Luxon said he wanted people paying less tax not more. 

Hipkins said the tax system places way too much emphasis on salary and wage earners. “People are earning a lot of money through, capital gains, for example, that aren't being taxed, and we're one of the only countries in the world that allows that to happen."

Luxon hit back saying the capital gains tax proposal was “really unfair” and people would get “smashed” by it.

AI

AI seemed to be one of the few policy areas where the two could possibly work together.

Luxon said he thought there was some “serious dangers and evils associated with artificial intelligence”.

“What we need to do in order to deal with those dangers is work with other like-minded countries to make sure we've got the regulatory frameworks in place. We're obviously wanting to adhere to OECD principles. We spend a lot of time with our Five Eyes networks talking about the threats associated with that.”

Hipkins said there were “huge opportunities for New Zealand from AI, but we need to be eyes wide open to the fact that there are real risks, and some of those risks are here right now”.

He said it was an area where the two leaders could work “really well for the benefit of New Zealand, because not only do we have to work with other like-minded countries standing up to what is a global challenge and a global threat to find the regulatory frameworks”. 

Gaza 

Asked if he personally believed that Israel has committed genocide in Gaza, Hipkins said: "There is an unfolding genocide taking place in Gaza. I believe there's a case for them to answer on that, yes."

Luxon said he thought there were "very serious questions, and again, we should be guided by the ICC (International Criminal Court) and the ICJ (International Court of Justice)."