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New Zealanders 50 years and older plagued with worry about retirement lifestyles despite being debt free and freehold. Your sentiments about retirement?

KiwiSaver
New Zealanders 50 years and older plagued with worry about retirement lifestyles despite being debt free and freehold. Your sentiments about retirement?

By Amanda Morrall

Ageing New Zealanders, even those who plan to be debt free by 65, say they are worried about having insufficient income in retirement despite the comfort of a government pension and private savings.

That was the finding of a survey of 600 Kiwis aged 50 or older conducted by the community website GrownUps.

While 90% of survey respondents say they were working to become debt free by retirement, almost a quarter admitted they wouldn't meet their target. Of those that would be free, most said they would struggle to meet their living costs.

Grown-ups co-founder Richard Poole said the survey results drove home some harsh economic realities as well as the need for retirees to be "extra cautious" with money through their retirement.

Poole said retirees today and those 10-15 years off of leaving paid employment would be forced to become more creative about funding their retirement, either adjusting their lifestyles and curtailing spending or downsizing their primary residence to generate more capital.

Of those surveyed, more than 75% did not believe pension entitlements through the New Zealand Superannuation would cover their basic living costs. And 40% did not believe they had enough to last in retirement. This despite that the fact that the majority had begun saving for retirement at age 40 to 45. (To look up the current rates for NZS click here).

Poole said the savings picture that emerged from the survey did not bode well for future generations who are now expected to start saving for retirement during their 20s or as soon as they took up full time employment.

"This is a real challenge for future generations as there are the costs associated with buying first homes, growing families and life experience to contend with – no one is thinking about retirement at 25,” said Poole. 

Roughly a third of respondents reported having suffered financial setbacks after investing in finance companies.

KiwiSaver was tagged as one of the main sources of retirement income for 41% of the respondents. Ninety percent opted into KiwiSaver out of choice, and more than 50% of people contribute 4% of their annual income towards their KiwiSaver fund. A further 44% of contributors plan to make voluntary contributions to their KiwiSaver funds.

Additional findings.

· 45% of respondents are enrolled in KiwiSaver

· 46% of people plan to take their money out of KiwiSaver as soon as they turn 65

· 63% of people regularly check the balance of their KiwiSaver account

· 38% of respondents contribute 2% of their income to KiwiSaver fund annually

· 52% of respondents contribute 52% of their income to KiwiSaver fund annually

· 10% of respondents contribute 8% of their income to their KiwiSaver fund annually

· 66% of respondents own their home freehold

· 40% of respondents believe they will need up to $400,000 to last them for their retirement.

· 31% of respondents predict they will need up to $700,000 to last them for their retirement.

 

We welcome your comments below. If you are not already registered, please register to comment.

Remember we welcome robust, respectful and insightful debate. We don't welcome abusive or defamatory comments and will de-register those repeatedly making such comments. Our current comment policy is here.

88 Comments

Don't feel too sorry [Edit-------------], they got everything for free and currently own a disproportionate amount of the property to the detriment of everyone else. They'll be just fine in retirement.

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Mark: Please keep the conversation civil. You are free to make your points, but without the unnecessary smears.

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They should increase interest rates and make saving a much more attactive option.

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He is entitiled to make any conclusion or form any opinion he see's fit. It's called 'freedom of expression' which quite clearly you expressed yourself. You taking offense is YOUR problem

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Lumping all baby-boomers together lumps together (for example) my friend who rents a house to someones mother. She being destitutish has her son help with the rent. She asked for a rent reduction and my friend (currently on vacation in Europe) says: "I don't see why I should subsidise her!"

Baby boomers may own their own homes but are they over represented as property investors or is it families or anyone?

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I agree - who cares about the baby boomers?

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I can't wait until my generation is in power

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"for the times , they are a chan..ging"

 

Baby boomer song of hope.

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i hope none of you debt free and freehold retirees sent your kids to a fancy collegiate to get a plumb in their mouths,because i've got news for you.

they ain't gonna look after you but they will be around for the reading of the will

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You've hit the nail right on the head there, ngakonui gold. In the years to come we're going to see the largest intergenerational transfer of wealth and assets from the old to the young that has quite possibly ever taken place in human history. But still the young begrudge paying tax to fund old age pensions, and accuse the elderly of intergenerational theft. But I've never heard them moaning about the tax payer money that was spent on them or about the money they are going to inherit. And because there are fewer of them now than in the past, their share of the inheritance will be much larger.

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I don't think anyone's ever been that worried about people who will inherit wealth. It's the young people now whose parents were not lucky enough to get wealthy that I'm most worried for. For them, the current rules of living are hugely stacked against them.

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That's because we're too busy paying off student loans, high rents and (if we're lucky) absurdly high mortgages.

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Much like your parents before you then. So toughen up. And don't try me on with the student loans nonsense, as most people of your parent's generation never went to university.

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I'm less than ten years from national super and surprised at how many of my peers have bugger all in the way of savings, mortgages they're not paying down and an expectation/entitlement for an annual overseas trip, flash car and houses chocker with all kinds of consumer junk. I don't feel sorry for these fools either, Mark but I don't think they'll be "just fine in retirement".

I think most Boomers don't have a clue about what's heading their way for their happy retirement dream.

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Of those surveyed, more than 75% did not believe pension entitlements through the New Zealand Superannuation would cover their basic living costs.

 

Yes, and Bernard Hickey wants you old so-in-sos' to have even less because our pension scheme is too extravagant and its intergenerational theft! Given the uncertainty and fear that the news media and the GreenLabour Party are generating over National Superannuation, I'm not at all surprised that so many New Zealanders have turned to property in a desperate attempt to insure that they have enough to live on in old age.  But the Bernard Hickey's of this world don't want you doing that because it makes the houses too expensive for them, but they don't want you to get the pension either or, have too many assets because that's unfair on them  too.  I mean just what are old people to do in this angry sea of mixed messages and contradictions? No wonder they are worried, so they should be!

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"just what are old people to do"

Crowd into property investment or equities and the returns collapse.

Money on deposit - just a counterparty to a mountain of unpayable debt.

Look to yourself I say.

 

Trouble is most folk are borderline useless outside their narrow workplace skills. Can you build something, repair something, grow food, catch food, is your lifestyle low budget (wetback on the woodburner?). In short have you got skills and knowledge that are of use to yourself and that others are willing to pay for? It's never too late to learn.

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You'll get paid for that. The key words were included.

 

Doesn't make you liik clever though.

 

This is a case of expectations not being underwriteable. That goes for all generations alive now. Future ones will probably have a more realistic understanding, if they have time to think about it.

 

Bernard,  DavidB, and the 'investors', are all in the same boat. Not enough to go around, less even that the current expectation. The only valid complaint is indeed that of the young, complaining that the older folk stole the resources of the planet. The oldies will deny that they knew they were doing so, but the information was there, and ignorance is no excuse.

 

Doesn't alter the reality, though. No more than your incessant ranting/spinning.

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You're insane.

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http://www.zerohedge.com/news/chris-martenson-trouble-money

 

Doesn't look too insane to me. I'll go with original investigation and truths.

 

You stick to the lightweight slander.

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Pdk – I think some of the BB’s never understand or are even interested on your articles/ links. Those people are born into a time when for 50 years most everything was achievable. Greed and consumption lead to materialism of unprecedented proportion. A diseased self- esteem became part of their life’s. They cannot even think of changes or accept other people’s different opinions.  

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That fellow understands very well. To be a spindoctor, you have to be familiar with that you're denigrating. You also have to be shallow (you're only going to get the tabloid vote, let's face it, not the thinkers) with your comments.

The wee muppet Gonzo was the same - inane, bland, obfuscating, putting-down - but no real info.

 

I don't mind when folk do their homework, say '"mea culpa" and change their ways. What I object to is the obfuscation of truth. It's interesting to work out who these folk are, and who pays  :)  The joke, of course, is that they're on the ship too.

 

The societal/attutudinal change - I guess it was inevitable - seems to be happening outside the mainstream media. Perhaps that's because their business models don't stand up so they don't want to know about it.

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Hey David, I want you to build a good wall around that house, cement some cut glass on top so no one can get in, and put in one of those metal gates that need a code to get in. Think of it as a sarcophagus. No one is going to buy it from you in 10 or 20 years, when you expect to palm it off to fund your retirement. Only too late you will discover that your retirement will be funded on human capital, (about the same time you realize your ledger is deeply in the red) not money.

You can't eat a house and those young people you are so fond of maligning are your survival ticket in the long run, if you had the sense to see it. As for me, I don't kid myself, my future depends on the good will of the following generations, so I invest my time and energy on helping them to have a fair shot at financial stability. A bit of a losing battle though, cos right now those of your ilk hold all the cards. And you are certainly looking out for yourselves, aren't you?

Missing the big picture.

 

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Cheap credit is the problem, it changed behaviours, allowed people to live beyond their means, repayment affordability was the new rule, total loan amount and term are ignored.

The marginal "I feel good and this sacrifice is worth it"(return) of saving a dollar is now less than the marginal return on of spending a dollar and this can be leveraged by borrowing.

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Correct except cheap credit is a sypmtom of a problem, not the problem itself. 

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This was once a nation where a person could retire to a seaside cottage and li ve on the smell of an oily rag. Tha is no longer possible as the retiree has to compete with a globalised property market which was one of Labours Great Inventions and continued by National, whose PM has a bach on Success Way Omaha Beach. He's a man of the (properte) people!

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The key issue regarding superannuation is that there is no certainty as to what role the individual and the government have in providing for retirement.   

It is not surprising that the 50+ baby boomers are plagued with worry. They contributed to a fund which was later axed by Robert Muldoon, and more recently contributed to the Cullen Fund which again has been curtailed (and by a process of smoke and mirrors is likely to effectively disappear if it is used to buy State assets as has been suggested).

The existence of these funds at the time suggested an expectation that there would be some universal superannuation in later life.  

The uncertainty of superannuation is not just an issue for those who are in the 50+ age bracket, but an issue for all including the younger generation.

Unfortunately many see the current KiwiSaver scheme as providing some certainty for their retirement. However this is woefully inadequate as it is neither compulsory nor are the  contribution rates of 2% employee and 2% employer anywhere near adequate (especially compared to Australia’s 9% employee and employee contributions).

So while the early comments scoff at the older generation, the issue is not only one of those 50+. It is simply just that those in this age bracket are facing the reality. I suggest that if those under 50+ are not similarly worried, then it is simply that they haven’t really considered the implications as it is not of immediate concern.

The reality is we need some certainty as to whether superannuation is individual or government responsibility. Given the flip flopping of previous governments, certainty is needed by way of individual assigned funds at a contribution rate similar to Australia’s rather than contribution to funds that have a lifespan of the then current government.    

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Well put. 

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Hell no, Im not even this well off......

regards

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Everyone should be worried because this is happening here now and if the government gets it way the DHBs will fall under PPP control and end up like this as well.

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Are you saying the Government has a strategy to transfer the public hospitals to private ownership?

 

What evidence do you have for that?

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Wakefield Health is pushing ahead with a plan for the redevelopment of its flagship hospital in Wellington, despite falling private insurance rates and warnings of economic weakness in the capital.

 

The NZX-listed company reported a 27 per cent rise in underlying net profits to $6.52 million for the year to March 31, on revenue up 5.2 per cent to $79.8m, describing its outlook as one of "measured optimism".

 

A public backlash against cutbacks in ACC spending had led to a slight increase in work for the private sector from the corporation, Blair said, while contracts from district health boards were up, but remained "lumpy".

 

Meanwhile, there has been a continued falloff in private insurance rates. According to the Health Funds Association, the number of New Zealanders with health insurance dropped by 25,700 in the year to March 31, to 1.35 million, the same level as in 2005. Read article

 

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That article is about the private sector investing in their own facilities . Nothing there about taking over public hospitals. It also says lower uptake of private health insurance which means greater reliance on the public system.

There is a comment about "lumpy "contracts from the DHBs. That is the private hospitals contracting for overload cases from the public system. If they have the funding it is cheaper for the DHBs to send cases to private hospitals to cut waiting lists rather than investing in more bricks and mortar and paying extra doctors and nurses when the demand might be temporary or , more likely , the funding is temporary. It will be the same surgeons anyway.

 

I dont see anything there that indicates privatisation of the health system. The reverse if anything.

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Yeah Right

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Does that mean you agree with me?

If you dont you'll have to come up with something that supports your case because you certainly havent so far.

 

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MARK and other  stop behaving  like spoilt brats and do some work like our genration had to 

 We got less for free than the current generation , no Interest free student loans , no easy credit to buy our first home (we actually saved a deposit) . Exchange control meant no cheap imported cars. Cars were not easy to obtain ( we used buses , bicycles or walked )

We had recessions , unemployment , inflation , the Vietnam war and its afternath ( we were broke) and went into recession , an Oil crisis ( followed by another recession) , an Asian Banking crisis and currency crisis ( and another recession ) Interest rates on houses went up to 20% (follwed by  another recession)

It taught us about hard work and paying off our mortgages as soon as possible  and saving , saving , saving and more saving.

Battling and being broke focusses the mind , we learnt about being careful with money

Many of the current younger generation only wake up at 10 am , sit around in coffeee shops all day , hoon about in expensive cars , are seemingly perpetual students sponging off Mom ( not me) , and all  this behaviuor leaves me breathelss , because we never had it as easy as they have .

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BOATMAN, why do you boomers always think that the younger generations don't work hard and don't save.  I'm so tired of hearing this.  Even if most of the younger generations saved their entire incomes they would still struggle to pay for a house before retirement.

We have easy credit but with that comes over-priced houses.  Also you still have to pay the credit back so hardly an advantage over saving for a deposit unless house prices ALWAYS go up. 

Also why didn't your generation have large student loans like the students of today - maybe another freebie that your generation received???  Oh and before you tell me its because your generation worked hard and saved while attending university, there are still many students that do that today but the difference is that they end up with a huge loan at the end of it.

Also what about the free house or houses that your generation got - the ones paid for by inflation.  Its possible that the inflation of the past may continue for us but if it does at the same rate, the cost to society will be much greater than previously and will ultimately end in the destruction of our currency.

 

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Let’s escalate this into real inter-generation warfare.

Shifting the blame eases the stress and is far easier than working together towards solutions.    

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Absolutely correct Silversurfer. I personally think, we as BB’s had an easier ride to get a decent income, a business and good life- style. With hard work in a booming economic environment lot’s of BB’s made good money. Now in difficult times this is much harder to achieve.

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Silversurfer and Benwave: Student Loans. Not so sure you are correct about that. Had a look at the rules surrounding "student loans". From what I can see the, the loans are in respect of accomodation and living allowances (only) and not for education. But please feel free to correct me on that.

 

And undertaking tertiary education for BB's was not FREE. You had to obtain School Certificate followed by University Entrance which then gave you a "fees only bursary", which did not include books and student union fees, and if you didnt perform you lost the bursary and had to pay full fees. For genX they changed the rules surrounding School Certificate and if you could fog a mirror you got it and everyone and his dog could get into "teriary education"

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For genX they changed the rules surrounding School Certificate and if you could fog a mirror you got it and everyone and his dog could get into "teriary education"

 

That's because university faculties took it upon themselves to convince society they deserved patronage, just as Jane Austen's vicars did, by falsely promising an education to our children that would all but guarantee a middle class job thereafter. 

 

Taxpayers, allowed their unjustified fears to overwhelm their sense of economy.

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uh, pretty 99% sure the loan is for education fees as well in fact mainly so....also essential equipment....When I did a course 12 years ago I could and did get money for a laser printer as all my work couldnt be submitted hand written.....Accomodation and living costs is I think only allowed if your parents dont earn enough to support you...

regards

 

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I had to balk at the no interest free student loans comment... boomers had the govt pay their fees directly, no questions asked! An interest free loan is actually a worse deal for students today. 

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Whilst I agree many of my generation (and younger) need a reality check, I (and many others) don't fall into that category. I've have worked, at various times, 3 concurrent jobs trying to save for a house, yet still fell behind the absurd rise in house prices and cost of living etc. My partner and I have done ok, but nowhere near where we should be considering our earning potential, and we are pretty frugal believe me! The problem I have is that, despite our hard work and saving etc, we aren't much better off that many of our generation who don't adhere to these principles. I accept your generation worked bloody hard etc, but we will never get anywhere near the kind of wealth my parents and many of their friends have no matter how hard we work, despite having better jobs. When my dad was my age he had 3 kids, a house in a reasonably nice area and a wife who stayed at home looking after us. Try doing that today!

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Your dad must have had 10 jobs and worked 35 hours a day, or something ridiculous like that. Jokes aside, I totally understand where you're coming from, theres no way one partner can stay at home and the other go to work these days, unless you are extremely highly paid. 30-40 years ago your average man had a wife and kids at home and was able to pay the mortgage and get by on one income. Basically baby-boomers and possibly feminists screwed it up. Nowadays, if you average man worked 18 hours a day and the family was on one income, it still wouldn't be enough.

Still, a wise man taught me to never be a product of my environment, my environment should be a product of me.

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Well put Boatman what a lot of self indulgent ranting from these over entitled people who think they have it so hard with student loans and personal finance debt. How many people choose to get on plane and leave the country once they are qualified in their chosen profession, and then come home to mummy when it doesn't work out with those unsympathetic Aussies who don't like paying kiwis the dole. from my hazy memory of the past which I'm happy to forget what jobs were available in my trade had such crap pay you had to set up a business and were stone broke for 10 years until we made some real money so get off your backsides and stop sitting at a computer moaning about how hard it is and blaming the oldies and go out and make your own future no ones going to do it for you.

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Frankly young people lumping all baby boomers together in one gross generalisation really shows me that some young haven't grown up yet. My case, 5-6 years from retirement, working on a salary, paid my children through uni, paid for their wedding, assist with deposits on a house, and frankly when I'm gone, will get a big further transfer of wealth from me

 

Done on a salary by wise investing and early debt repayment (no property investments) and most importantly, by foregoing luxuries in my 20's, 30's and early 40's - something I observe that many many of the younger generation are not prepared to do (did my OE at 50 when did you do yours?). Personally, I won't be lectured by them as being greedy, and at the moment, I worry what their situation will be like in the future without a big mind set change.

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Muppet King (by name and by nature), you will be waiting an awful long time. The demographics dictate that you will be in harness and paying plenty of tax but your cohort won't be a voting majority until you are in the same predicament. Funny how the world works, 'aint it!

Ergophobia  

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I highly doubt that but we'll see won't we!

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Yep a world wide depression will see the old die off as medicines and medical treatment become too expensive. Those under 40 will be sent off to war. Will leave the GenX's to run the show.

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Yeah I've got a feeling the powers that be will do anything to keep the status quo, and in doing that, they will cause its downfall.

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I worked three jobs when I was twenty something years old to save up for my first home.. Now they think I got it for free and own too many properties..  stick it ...

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Email: BH to Amanda: Hi Amanda, we need a post that will drive the numbers up for the weekend please. The property porn results aint out until next wek. Any ideas.....?

Email: Amanda to BH: I've got just the topic to get the Boomers and Genx and Ys heaving words at each other all weekend. Leave it to me boss...... :)

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email from BH to Amanda. Your headlines are brilliant. You deserve a raise.:)

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Fantastic. Maybe he can now ease off the self serving infomercials.  

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Bernard's such a tightwad ( saving for his retirement , now that Fairfax are too screwed with debt / incompetence / & cyclone Gina , to buy interest.co.nz off him ) .......

 

.... if he offers Amanda a raise , he'll probably just jam a Yellow Pages Directory under her chair ......

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You'd have to be concerned GBH that in the BiG B's attempt to flatter(deservedly ,I might add) he may have  meant  headlights  and hiccuped on the vanacular.......you know how those studious types are.

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... did you know that Ecstasy ( a physical stimulant ) , has been found to relieve the uncontrollable twitching & jerking of Parkinson's Disease sufferers  ?

 

That's a kind of medical oxymoron , isn't it ........

 

...... they discovered that in 2005 .... so it's not really new news ..... old news .... ( another oxymoron ! ) .......

 

..  the " leaders " of the Eurozone  can still breathe : does that make them oxymorons too ?

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Investing and pet ownership are not mutually exclusive Ivan. Also, if a pet improves your quality of life, that is also an investment too.

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I dont know about being over 50 and debt free. I have many compatriots who are over 50 and so humpbacked by debt I dont see how they will ever stand straight again.

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I might not be fishing to increase the protein in the diet if I ever get around to retiring http://enenews.com/plutonium-detected-fish-caught-deeper-waters-japan-coast-samples-june-2011-frozen

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This intergenerational hate talk just don't produce anything.  Best not to bother.  Please.

If you are 30 or 60 it's clear that you are going to be living a lot of years without income from working.   So you better do something about it.

The numbers of what you need to maintain current standard of living are quite nasty.  So nasty that many just pretend.

Yes that means spending less than you earn, and having a lower standard of living.  Tough but true.

If you are 30 and haven't started.  It's almost too late.  But get to it.

If you are 50 with debt, then you are well screwed.  But anything - anything you can do in the next few years will help.

 

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Its partially mis-directed....really it should be the top 1% v the rest.....

regards

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More correctly, it is being mis-directed by the top 1%, but for the most part we are too stupid to notice.

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This intergenerational hate talk just don't produce anything.  Best not to bother.  Please.

If you are 30 or 60 it's clear that you are going to be living a lot of years without income from working.   So you better do something about it.

The numbers of what you need to maintain current standard of living are quite nasty.  So nasty that many just pretend.

Yes that means spending less than you earn, and having a lower standard of living.  Tough but true.

If you are 30 and haven't started.  It's almost too late.  But get to it.

If you are 50 with debt, then you are well screwed.  But anything - anything you can do in the next few years will help.

 

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Amanda, an interesting topic might be how many debtors the IRD have at the present time,  if numbers are growing, and how big the debt is. Personally I have had a bit to do with Ird lately for a family member that is in business, and finding keeping ahead of ACC and IRD payments is becoming rather problematic.

The 15% gst although lower than many countries, seems to now be a huge impost on business, requiring higher overdrafts to carry this. ACC sending out accounts from the 2010 year in May this year, was an interesting experience. Where do they get off being over 2 years overdue and expect to get paid?

My experience more and more is that taxes are becoming impossibly high, and our youth today will struggle terribly trying to get ahead. I see even a 1 tonne diesel vehicle will now be charge RUC of a 3.5 tonne....beyond ridiculous. 

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Belle you are not wrong - it's expensive keeping the entitled elite employed by the State - their demands are more than significant and I note another $500 million of government issued debt was settled this week. The cost of servicing this debt is around 5.42% on notional value when the rate of notional annual GDP growth has fallen back to 3.09%. It's an  impossible task to  pay for this increasingly unsustainable luxury with diminishing tax returns from the solvent.

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Ah well Stephen, back to working out the GST I know the young lad wont be able to find to pay..... where has it gone you may well ask..... diesel lots has gone on diesel, and we know about the tax on  a tax on a tax there.... his business wont operate without the stuff. A big Mr fixit job.... ah yes the latest diesel vehicles dont last like the pre common rail diesels....so the clutch went the motor went ..... What else..... fast food, young fullas cant live on normal food. I tut tut at him, but what would a mother know. Overpriced rent, power, and phone bills. And us lot did that to him, we had it all, then we gave it to the overseas banks. And if you see one of the previous posts, I tell him to not do fast food sushi any more. This next century is gona suck.

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If he hasnt been running his business properly....well what is there to say, its not rocket science, just move the right % more or less to one side.....

Deisel, well several of us have been saying for years that fuel will be a significant cost of businesses and even in short supply.......

Clutches wear out, motors shouldnt.....unless they are mazdas....depends how you treat them Ive found....usually ppl over  rev them.....especially when cold.....use the clutch to get the acceleration as well....oh look interesting symptoms.

fast food ~ sushi is pretty healthy and reasonably priced compared to most stuff.....it also makes sense if he earns more per hour to work than take the time to buy and make food......say he's earning $60 an hour and a meal takes 30mins v buying sushi....Im sure you can work the rest out.

"This next century is gona suck." indeed it is....especially for those who dont realise it has to change so dont start to change....running a fossil fueled energy business looks somewhat dinosaurish....but then thats the norm.

regards

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A divided nation, cannot multiply, cannot add nor subtract and if they had a head for figures, English would never be a safe bet on a sure thing, buy my reconning.

Steer a safe course....Australia, here we come. But don't count yer chickens...

"Hello sailor"...mines a pint....wots yours...mine too.

Hello...Digger.

http://www.webjet.co.nz/flights/australia-specials/?utm_source=WebjetDB&utm_medium=email&utm_content=main&utm_campaign=NZ_TT2012_6_28&skipmobile=true

 

 

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Some Guardian insight into the plight of today's younger generation. 

 

Those people who are surprised that David Cameron wants to take away housing benefit from the under-25s have not been paying attention at the back. From tuition fees to workfare to benefit cuts to young parents, to careers stitched up by free internships and temporary contracts, a clear ideological and electoral decision has been made. These young people don't vote, they don't pay much tax, and they are superfluous to a Tory win. It is older people who vote. Thus the freezing, half-starved pensioner is always wheeled out – not the comfortably-off guy playing golf in Marbella – to be pitted against feckless, hooded youth – as though we have to choose between them. We don't.

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Belle.  If there is GST to pay then the business is making money.  Problem is the young fella is taking out more money than the business can afford.  And has spent the money that should have been put aside. 

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KH,

It doesn't necessarily follow that if a business is paying GST, it must be making money. Wages and salaries do not attract GST, so while a business paying GST will be making a gross margin, that can very quickly be more than sucked up by wages.

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Fear not fellow Gen-Y's and X's, we'll get the buggers.......... with super inflation.

Once all the baby boomers have retired (for the first time at least), there will be less of us working. At which point we'll be able to demand what we like in terms of wages and they'll have to pay.....

 "that''ll be a 1000 bucks to get your corrolla serviced sir..... and oils extra!".

Slowly but surely we'll drain them of the 'wealth' they've built up by pushing property out of reach of young families. At which point they''ll be forced back into work if able or into the state battery farms we'll make for retired baby boomers. They'll make those 20m2 apartments look palatial.

 

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Actually a big dose of deflation via a Great Depression to start with, so houses worth 10~25% of 2007's "peak", Pensions are in shares, commercial property......watch them drop to 10% aka 1933....so I cant see pensions being paid, AMP, Tower bankrupt I suspect....all the BBs doing the PI trick will be wiped out me thinks....so I think you will find there wont be much left to "take back"...

regards

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Bought a house in Dunedin in 1984. Cost 25k. 80 Year old Villa. Pretty crappy.

Was paying 7% through my firm. Everyone else was paying 18% at the time. All my friends were seriously pissed of at my company's largesse.

When i got the loan the person approving it told me that a similar house in Ponsonby would be going for 75k

Roll on 28 years. Still livin in the same house. Done up. Spent another 50k on it and the house is now worth 200k.

Same house in Ponsonby with same 50k spent on it is now probably worth 800k.

i have no mortgage. Ponsonby owner probably wouldn't have a mortgage either.

Who's fault is it that the Auckland scum sucking Baby Boomer's property is worth $600k more than my Scum sucking Baby Boomers property? His? The Governments? The Bank's?

Get a life arseholes. Shit happens.

 

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With a second Great Depression looming your house will probably be worth $25k again....inside 5 years

"Get a life..........." etc etc........still its a "free" place to live....

Ponsonby mortgage free?, Im not so sure on that....different life style wishes to you I suspect...

regards

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Second great depression here ? ...... nah ! ......steven still wrong ......

 

........ houses available for $ 25 000 ? ..... nup . Rentals have hit that level , per annum .....

 

steven still wrong ...... ( " sh*t happens " ...... aha ha de haaaaaaaaa ! .. )

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Aoplogise for the swearing. Getting so sick of being blamed for all the worlds ills.

You have to take advantage of life as you are living it. Not second guess whether your descendants will find waht you did offensive. You make decisions at the time on information you have available to you. And you quite often get it wrong. Look at the wildly different opinions on this site

 

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all you wealthy people off to retirement homes in the future can rest easy knowing that someone earning $13.75 per hour will be cleaning up after you and i'm sure they will enjoy it.

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Another point to ponder I  believe-  it was the BB set who decided to give the maoris the massive free handouts that set the country on the road to penury - millions if not billions have been flushed down that particular dunny and it is set to continue ad nauaseum .Certainly there would have been a lot more that all NZ  governments could have done to provide for their citizens if this blatant con had been rejected out of hand when it first raised its ugly head -- well done all you !!

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Another point to ponder I  believe-  it was the BB set who decided to give the maoris the massive free handouts that set the country on the road to penury - millions if not billions have been flushed down that particular dunny and it is set to continue ad nauaseum .Certainly there would have been a lot more that all NZ  governments could have done to provide for their citizens if this blatant con had been rejected out of hand when it first raised its ugly head -- well done al of you !!

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Stephen.  You are correct. 

Wages etc aren't 'GSTable'  True. 

But the business does not do well enough anyway, to carry the wages or what seems in this case to be the owner/operators income.  But it's not the GST that breaks it.

   

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Who did it...

No that was a seriously delusional set of idiots with historical hysterical vestiges of the fact that Labour....is not working in the National interest, they inherited from their forebares as an entitlement.

But working the system...might pay, more than not working as an entitlement.

Pity that entitlement was a two way street, but is now turned into a blind alley.

And Labour....is still not working.

But then neither is National....

Repeat the first line......................here.

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Personally, I don't take much pleasure out of beating up on the Boomers.The ones I know worked their butts off and as you pointed out didn't have their paths paved in gold. Being born of Depression era parents, many of them didn't benefit from the generosity that my Generation X (has) in terms of parental support. They also didn't have the luxury of choice; women who chose careers over motherhood (or tried to do both) were pioneers. The stay at home Dad option, wasn't an option for men though I'm sure some of them might have preferred that, even excelled at it.

Isn't it great that social norms have changed giving so much more choice to both genders about how they choose to live their lives?

But as others have pointed out, I don't think you can generalise about either demographic. Everyone has a different story. 

Whether we like it or not there will have to be a meeting of the minds, either among families or as a society about how to manage the enormous demographic shift that is headed our way. If you remain healthy and fit, (body and mind) in old age, you may fare well but others will need help and the scale of the oldsters relative to the youngster (and the drain down of public money) will demand that we all do more to help one another and pull together as a human family. Choose your circle of friends carefully I say and be nice to strangers. Even the one's who smoke:)

 

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So your job, is to decide who talks sense, listen to them, read and research yourself, make your own mind up, take responsibility for your actions and act.  Then afterwards look back and consider how they and you did.....the only tricky bit is making sure you did the right thing for the right reason and not right thing for the wrong reason.......

I once met a russian taxi driver with a PHD (or 2) that was pissed he couldnt get a "decent job" His speciality was designing rocket engine liquid fuel pumps for ICBMs....not exactly much called for in NZ.....

"Oh I just call a plumber to do that" many ppl without a degree say the same thing....I have a degree, last weekend I changed my cistern's washer.....My wife has a MA, if its technical/DIY she just looks at me....

;]

My point, I think we are going to find a lot of ppl in the not to distant future with no "useful" skills or quals......expect carrot pulling....if they wont do that well it will be starve.

regards

 

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....... shortage of carrot pullers in NZ ? ..... No ! ........steven still wrong ....

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Email BH to Amanda: Great work Amanda nearly cracked 100 comments and it's heating up between the boomers and Gen Y's! All we need now is the Duke and Nic Arrant to start commenting, then we will pull in the property hawks and renters. Now get online and post a comment about the Gen X's and women/feminists and stay at home dad's. We need more of them posting not just that pimply teenager Steven who's gonna be unbearable next week once school holidays start............

PS. Pay rise subject to 200 comments as per KPIs in contract...........

;)

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I'm a boomer. Left university with a net worth of $0. Lots of jobs

First house $60000,( 3 years wages).

 

My son will graduate 2015 with  a net worth of -$60000. Limited jobs. First house $250,000

( 6 years wages).

 

Same game , different rules

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