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Four cases of Covid-19 community transmission found in south Auckland; Auckland to go into Level 3 lockdown; Rest of NZ to go into Level 2

Four cases of Covid-19 community transmission found in south Auckland; Auckland to go into Level 3 lockdown; Rest of NZ to go into Level 2
Jacinda Ardern. Getty Images.

Auckland will go into Covid-19 Alert Level 3 and the rest of the country Level 2, from Wednesday noon until Friday midnight.

The move follows four cases of community transmission being found in south Auckland.

The four cases aren’t linked to overseas travel or people who work at the border. They are from the same family.

Those who the individuals work with have been asked to self-isolate. 

Travel into and out of Auckland will be restricted. However people can travel out of Auckland if their home is out of Auckland, or travel into Auckland if their home is in Auckland. 

There will be roadblocks and checks.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said Auckland was defined as the Super City area from Wellsford to Pukekohe.

Unlike last time New Zealand went into lockdown, the Ministry of Health is advising people to use face masks. 

Here is a copy of the advice from the Ministry of Health:

Auckland

Under Alert Level 3, you are encouraged work from home if you can.

Travel and self-isolation

If you are currently in Auckland and do not live in Auckland, we suggest that you go home. Practise good hygiene and be conscious of your health. We recommend that you keep your bubble small.

Businesses

Businesses are able to open, but should not physically interact with customers.

Essential services including healthcare, justice services and businesses providing necessities are able to open.

Bars and restaurants should close, but takeaways are allowed.

Education

Schools in Auckland can safely open but will have limited capacity. Where possible we encourage students to learn from home.

When you're out and about

Maintain physical distancing of 2 metres outside your home, including on public transport.

It is highly recommended that you wear a mask if you are out and about.

Public transport can continue to operate with strict health and safety requirements. You should maintain physical distancing and wearing a mask.

Public venues should close. This includes libraries, museums, cinemas, food courts, gyms, pools, playgrounds and markets.

Gatherings

Gatherings of up to 10 people can continue, but only for wedding services, funerals and tangihanga. Physical distancing and public health measures should be maintained.

At-risk people

People at high risk of severe illness such as older people and those with existing medical conditions are encouraged to stay at home where possible, and take additional precautions when leaving home.

Further detail

Detailed information about life at Alert Level 3 is available.

Alert System overview

Rest of New Zealand

The rest of New Zealand will move to Alert Level 2 at 12 noon on Wednesday 12 August.

You can still continue to go to work and school, with physical distancing.

Wear masks if you can in public.

No more than 100 people at gatherings, including weddings, birthdays, funerals and tangihanga.

Businesses can open to the public if they are following public health guidance, which include physical distancing and record keeping.

People at higher risk of severe illness from COVID-19, for example those with underlying medical conditions and old people are encouraged to take additional precautions when leaving home.

Practice good hygiene - stay home if sick.

Detailed information about life at Alert Level 2 is available.

Alert System overview

Here is a press release from the Ministry of Health:

The Prime Minister has announced four confirmed cases of COVID-19 in one family from an unknown source.

The index case is a person in their 50s who lives in South Auckland.

They were swabbed yesterday, and the swab was processed twice. A second swab, taken today confirms the positive result.

The person has been symptomatic for five days and was interviewed this evening by the Auckland Regional Public Health Service.

The person has no overseas travel history.

As is our usual protocol we are continuing to trace close and casual contacts of this person and test them for COVID-19.

This has included household contacts of the case who received a rapid test this evening. Three of these tests have also come back positive and three are negative.

All close contacts of the four cases will remain in self-isolation for 14 days, regardless of their test result, and all casual contacts will remain in self-isolation until they have the results of their test.

In addition, we are working over the next few days to test all people that are working at our borders and everyone that works at a managed isolation facility.

There will also be no barriers to anyone that has cold and flu symptoms getting tested. Testing is free.

“I’ve said it previously, but it’s even more relevant now, if you are offered a test, please take it", Director General of Health Dr Ashley Bloomfield said.

In Auckland the four community testing centres in Northcote, Grafton, Henderson and Wiri will be operating with more staff and extra hours. The testing centres in Auckland, Waitemata and Counties Manukau are all prepared for receiving more people. Details will be on our website tonight.

The three DHBs in Auckland are planning pop up clinics over coming days and they will publicise the locations and hours of these clinics.

The Ministry will be working closely with DHBs and primary care around the country to ensure additional testing capacity is available to meet an expected increase in demand.

As we’ve been saying for several weeks, it was inevitable that New Zealand would get another case of community transmission.

We have been working on the basis that it could be at any time – and that time is now.

The health system is well prepared for this eventuality – and the important thing now is that we don’t let the virus spread in our community.

As we did in the early days of this virus emerging, we need to stamp it out.

There are things that every single New Zealander needs to do now:

- Continue stringent hand hygiene

- sneeze and cough into your elbow.

- If you or a family member are unwell stay home and contact Healthline or your GP about getting a test.

- practice physical distancing of two meters wherever possible.

- consider wearing a mask in public spaces or places where it is hard to physically distance.

If you have any concerns please seek advice from Healthline or your GP on getting a test.

If you have not already, please use this opportunity to download the NZ COVID Tracer app.

This will give us your up to date contact details, so if we need to get in touch with you for contact tracing purposes, we can do so quickly.

If you have fallen out of the habit of recording your movements as you go about your day, this case is a reminder of why it is so important.

You can still use the manual function on the app to record where you have been recently, and scan in using QR codes going forward.

A reminder too, for businesses – please have a QR code displayed so your customers can be traced quickly if required.

"Our contact tracing team will be getting in touch with anyone identified as being a contact of this case. Please be responsive if you are contacted – return the call.

"This case is a wake-up call against any complacency that may have set in.

"We cannot afford to let this virus spread.

"We have seen how quickly it can lead to a wider resurgence in communities overseas. Places that have had COVID-19 under control have seen flare-ups and gone back into a full lockdown.

"We are working to not let that happen here. We’ve done this before and we can do it again," Dr Bloomfield said.

We welcome your comments below. If you are not already registered, please register to comment.

Remember we welcome robust, respectful and insightful debate. We don't welcome abusive or defamatory comments and will de-register those repeatedly making such comments. Our current comment policy is here.

314 Comments

11
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The Bullet has finally caught up,the Sh_t will hit the fan now

NZD already taking a hit against the Ozzie. This is not good.

OK if you've got Aussie investments, or want to export there.

13
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National are looking better by the day. Perhaps Labour will start releasing policy now?

42
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National are still looking hopeless, actually.

Just last week Gerry was suggesting we didn't need to wear masks, despite international evidence saying we should if community transmission started again.

NZ will postpone the elections and Trump will follow suit, Win-Win.

Trump doesn't have the power to postpone the election, and he wouldn't want to anyway. The Constitution is clear. His term ends on January 20th at noon. If he hasn't been re-elected by then, the office would pass to the vice president or speaker of the house. If they hadn't been elected, it goes to the president pro tempore of the senate, who would be a Democrat.

It's just a another case of Trump opening his mouth without understanding what he's talking about.

Trump is toast, haven't you heard that Biden has just Senator Kamala Harris as his running mate the first black woman and Asian American in the role.
BBC Biden VP pick: Kamala Harris chosen as running mate. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53739323

Senator Kamala Harris would only be 1/4 black at best. Indians are not Asians (despite what the British press says).

Ahh see that's Biden's secrete weapon. Kamala's biracial roots are also Indian and they love her, so she has the best of multiple races and and more importantly voters.
Quoting the British BBC again. "The California senator, daughter of an Indian-born mother and Jamaican-born father, then explains the meaning of her Indian name."

BBC article: Biden's VP pick: Why Kamala Harris embraces her biracial roots. https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-53745141

Biden dosent know what day it is, where he is and who he is married too. Harris might be a able to show him the way with a blowtorch. She has baggage as well so if is going to be a case of Dumber and Dumber. If he doesn't react he can always conduct his campaign from his bunker. Jackass Joe is going to be trashed in the debates regardless where he takes part.
Trump must be laughing his hairstyle off.

Oh yes, Gerry .. Ilam need to stop electing him .. such a heavy student area too, they just seem to love the man? He comes across rather conceited, which is probably his most unattractive quality.

The Ilam electorate includes Fendalton. And Merivale. And students don't vote.

You speak the truth.

I dislike the man intensley. Especially his bumbling of the Christchurch Earthquake Recovery program. His arrogance at the Border Control and now Covid hor not wearing Face- Masks, just adds to my dislike. How could the residents of Ilam vote for him in the upcoming election.
I don't think his electorate liked him tonight on One news. Made a negative and inaccurate statement on the mic then stepped away from the podium. Was out of earshot when answering questions. Sent National, and himself, into even deeper negative territory. Could be its goodnight from him and goodnight from me.

16
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Nasty party would never had approval to stop China flights or close border in the first place. We were very lucky

We have gone 100 days since we had any community spread infection in the country, then suddenly within 24 hours we have 3 rest homes in CH-CH in lock down and a family infected in Auckland. This doesn't look accidental. It is three weeks since Judith Collins took over the leadership of the National Party and she has very strong links with the Chinese as we saw through the arivida affair. If I were the government I would be RNA analysing the hell out of the samples from these recent cases to get some picture of its infection path history. If they are identical they came out the same glass vial. If they are totally different then somebody has been very carefull to not give that impression. If things are innocent then they should trace back to infection already identified in the country.

Well it looks like the tests for the Ch-Ch rest homes are negative so the above is irrelevant. Thank goodness. May be with the situation in Auckland, the government was being extra cautious. I still can't understand why the government and airlines are not enforcing pre flight testing. Even if they only stopped half the cases, that might mean that we could have gone 200 days without infection. Another 100 days closer to a vaccine.

Why is Rotorua not also in level 3 lockdown? One of the 4 did the tourist traps there last weekend while symptomatic.

Because that's far more plausible than an incompetent cabinent unable to set up robust and fail safe quarantine procedures.

Well I agree with you re their incompetence. You could also add overconfident lassitude. The simple requirment of preflight testing for incomming passenging should have greatly reduced the risk. However all that is different to this. The occurance is far too coincidental to be random. Whatever, the RNA analysis should sort all that out

as the Christchurch tests show -- its joe bloggs ordinary flu - just because we have had very few cases - does not mean its not still around - and wont spread rapidly especially in closed rest home environments --

its totally coincidental -- and we will see far more rest homes lock down this winter with flu outbreaks to be on the safe side - hell - we had the no visitors sign up on our facilities by nine o clock last night - when you are responsible for the lives of vulnerable people - you dont take risks - safety first - and well done those rest homes for being brave enough to take that approach!

But our "saviour" St Jacinda will save us all again and luck had nothing to do with it the last time. She has a plan and knows exactly what must be done. She just need to tilt her head 3 times with a concerned face and the virus will go away.

13
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Well someone needs to quickly ask Judith what she would do right now...would she be implementing the same lockdown or not. That will help people decide how they might want to vote this election.

She will raise her eyebrows and poof the virus will fade away

'Karen' Collins would crush the virus...she just wouldn't stand for this jolly nonsense. (/sarc)

Ms Collins is is favour of looser travel restrictions, a more laissez faire attitude to Covid generally, and is in favour of revoking the foreign buyers ban. To me, it seems she shoots from the hip and makes wildly contradictory statements.

All that talk about not mortgaging the children and grandchildren's future is shown up in its insincerity when the plan is to once again look to sell NZ out from under young New Zealanders and require more and more debt for them to be able to build a stable life.

National in its current guise is bereft of anything to offer young and future New Zealanders.

Not only that but National will even wipe out the Boomers in their blundering first term by opening up our boarders in the name of 'Free Enterprise', welcoming in the coronavirus so they can sell off the deceased estates to Foreign Buyers and line their own pockets.

Ms Collins is is favour of looser travel restrictions, a more laissez faire attitude to Covid generally, and is in favour of revoking the foreign buyers ban. To me, it seems she shoots from the hip and makes wildly contradictory statements.

15
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Good thing we did not listen to John Key and the National Party and open the borders to Australia and students from Asia!
If National was in power we would be like Melbourne now.

Not to mention the Cook Islands as well...the place would become like a leper colony.

It was a matter of time.
Let's pray the government follows the Swedish response model.

Cheers China.

Why 3 days? Does that just buy time for contact tracing?

10
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Yes the idea is to allow them time to trace how these people were infected. And if they don't find out, well, then shiiiit

19
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Before going to level 4...

Essentially yes, to get more information about where it came from. If they can link this family to someone at the border who is also positive, for example. I'd expect both levels to be extended probably by at least another 7 days, the question is whether Auckland would stay at level 3 or go down to level 2. Guess it depends what they find out.

Yup. To determine what level of screwed we are. NSW or Vic?

The four of them work in different Auckland locations. How irresponsible. They must have known they weren't well and should have seeked medical assistance immediately - GP or hospital. One case is borderline unacceptable ; four affected is outrageously unacceptable.

One of them is a child who hasn't attended any childcare facilities.

In regards to the child, who has visited the family residence. The four other family members have going about their daily interactions. A media release states the father was aware of his medical condition for Five Days. The mother works in financial services. Their spread could be enormous.

I'm thinking it's going to go a minimum 2 weeks, they to 4.

What does 'X' equal?
3 Days + (Next Announcement) = X

Yup, its all about contact tracing. This will be a great test to see if they have good contact tracing plan and infrastructure.

If they can find a direct link back to the source of transmission and can narrow down a low number of contacts the lockdown may be short lived. Given they can't immediately identify the chain of transmission I worry this could last a bit longer.

Yep, will it, is it gold standard as promised.

Going into lockdown is not a supporting action of that system being Gold Standard.
Any estimates of the cost of Level3 to Auckland & New Zealand?

It will last longer. It is practically impossible to trace, test and receive results in 3 days. The 3 days stated is to avoid panic.

Auckland the new Victoria?

Typical DGM comment.

TTP

Thanks for the compliment

20
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Don't worry Palmy should be safe. No one wants to go there.

But I thought it was Huntly where people would wind up their windows and speed up to pass by faster :(

That is the big benefit of the new expressway bypassing Huntly, now you have to opt in to pass through the town.

Well thats wierd as my house has gone up $150k in 2 years

You should send Adrian Orr a thank you card.

Typical Debt Gathering Middleman comment

.

Covid cases = new monetary policy
NZ paying to participate or paid to participate?

What does this message actually mean???

'If you are currently in Auckland and do not live in Auckland, we suggest that you go home.'

10
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People don't "live" in Auckland - they just exist. Jacinda really hates Auckland.

26
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I tried living in Auckland once............. and understand the sentiment completely :)

I guess its actually safer for the rest of the country if they head home now before community transmission ramps up and then they are more likely to catch it and then take it home.

/Sarc tag missing, perhaps?

Test them before they leave and a self isolation when they return home.

10
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Hopeless message. Does this mean if you are in Auckland you should try and fly home tomorrow? Or drive home? (Even though regional travel is strongly discouraged)
You couldn't make this shit up.

But if you buy enough tp on the way home. the sh*t can at least be wiped up. Mostly. Just don't panic buy.

Oh, wait....

Think about it. Everyone visiting will be heading home sooner or later. The sooner they go the less chance they will have of being a carrier.

So that's ok even if they are saying people shouldn't travel between regions?
And people won't get haranged by police like my mate was last time?

10
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That makes sense. Eliminating unnecessary travel is a good idea. But visitors to Auckland returning home is 'necessary' travel.

An opportunity to get out of the shithole

21
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Entirely predictable. It's just a matter of time before we acknowledge Sweden as having the correct approach. Much economic damage will be done in the meantime though.

19
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Depends entirely on how long it takes to get effective vaccines out. It seems a couple of the vaccines are doing quite well in early trials, so vaccines may be ready for wide rollout in Q1 of 2021. In which case Sweden took the wrong approach.

Agree, also long term effects unknown.

16
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Don't mention the S word please. And don't ever mention that thier mortality as modelled under a stringent lockdown would have been almost as high because of the thousands returning from massive European skifield clusters and early penetratation into rest homes. You are only allowed to accuse them of conducting contrarian view experiments at the cost of thousands of lives.

10
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Fat Pat - strategically, you comment isn't.

https://royalsoc.org.au/images/pdf/journal/152-1-Turner.pdf

Read it all - particularly the Conclusion. You still worried about 'economic' after digesting that? Bit like worrying about damp carpets on the Titanic.

24
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Sweden's Q2 2020 GDP was announced a few days ago, down 8.6% (source: Statistics Sweden). Slightly better than Germany, down 10.1% but worse than their Baltic neighbours Latvia (-7.5%) and Lithuania (-5.1%) (source: eurostat). Close neighbours Norway, Finland and Denmark haven't released figures yet. So the Swedes not really saving their economy all that well with their approach.
Conversely, Sweden's per capita CV19 death rate is currently 571 per million, among the worst in the world, while the Germans have 111, Latvia 17 and Lithuania 30 (source: worldometers.info/coronavirus). New Zealand's for comparison stands at 4.
Sweden did not, by any reasonable measure, make the correct choice.

Let's wait until COVID20 has run through shall we?
Sweden has some considerable immunity, Jacindaland has what? none?

10
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Does it?
The evidence for long term immunity from coronaviruses is not good, http://www.columbia.edu/~jls106/galanti_shaman_ms_supp.pdf

dp

Modelling shows Swedens death rate would have been just as high under lockdown, which explains why the UK, Italy, Spain, Belgium are worse despite lockdown. It all depended on how it entered the country early on and how it got into vulnerable populations. Sweden nailed it but that is just unpalatable to the lockdown lovers who want them to fail.

5770 Swedish families may disagree at "Sweden nailing it".

Over 5k families would still be grieving if they had locked down. They nailed it under the circumstances.

What modelling? Any link?
I try to provide figures and sources where possible. It helps to show I am not just repeating something unsubstantiated I read in a comments section, heard from a mate's mate or just made up myself.
You don't need modelling to show lockdown prevents deaths. You just need to look at the evidence. On the worldometers.info/coronavirus page click on Sweden and look at the daily deaths graph. Then compare with NZ. Sweden has about double the population of NZ yet while Sweden's peak daily death rate was over 100, NZ topped out at 4. NZ's graph is a classic bell curve while Sweden's has a long, long tail. Both the height of Sweden's graph and the long tail represent extra deaths caused by their approach.
And it wasn't business as usual in Sweden. There were and still are restrictions and widespread social distancing, all adversely affecting their economy. Hence why their gdp drop is not markedly different from other countries. The main mistake they made, which many have made is that it is a choice between fighting the virus or saving the economy. In reality the best way to protect an economy is to fight the virus. An endemic virus will devastate an economy for a long time, potentially years. Just look at the UK and the US.
A short sharp shock is infinitely preferable. Jacinda made the right call, and continues to do so. She deserves credit for the right decisions and her excellent communication. However, I don't think she did anything particularly amazing. She just listened to what the experts were telling her and acted. The depressing thing is that so few world leaders did.

"I provide figures and sources where possible" then "you don't need modelling to show lockdown prevents deaths". Just like climate change deniers, we need to ignore cheerleaders.

I'll take that as a no then.
I replied to your comment not in the hope of educating you or changing your mind but to provide a counterargument for any reader who might think you have a point.
Your comment was ridiculous and deserved to be challenged. Please think about the range of people who might be reading your comments. There is enough disinformation around this virus without you adding to the confusion.

He does have a point.
Why dont you compare the rates of death in Sweden (no lockdown) to Spain (one of the strictest lockdowns in the world).
Or to France. Or to Belgium. Or the UK. Sweden did better then them with no lockdown. So it is hardly clear cut.
A bell shaped curve should immediately make you suspicious because distributions seldom fit the bell shape. Stats 101.
70% of Swedish deaths were in care homes. By their own admission a terrible failure.
6000 deaths in Sweden....100k normally die in a year there. They never ran out of ICU capacity.
What part of this seems like Sweden had such a bad experience to you?
As rubbish as all modelling is (chaos theory shows it is impossible to predict the future) all modelling on lockdowns showed they delay the outbreak they do not stop it.
We have another outbreak. So that proves at least that part of the model prediction was correct. We locked down at a cost of billions to be back at the start just 100 days later.
Now we lockdown again. Because doing the same thing and expecting different results is now reasonable in this bizzaro world we live in?

"On, Two, Three, Four,
We want Jacinda, and we want more"

How grown up of you...

You must be an adult?

Coronavirus deaths in Sweden are close to zero. Actually 5 deaths per day in a population of 10.3 million. Re: Their economy, of course it's better off that it would have otherwise have been with lockdowns. Are you seriously implying that lockdowns have no adverse economic effect?

Lockdown has an economic impact but so does a pandemic. People behave differently at different stages of a pandemic. We don't know yet what the long term economic effects have been, or will be, because the pandemic is ongoing. We won't know for years after the pandemic has ended. If it turns out that the virus has long term debilitating health effects, this will also drag on economies. So it's premature to be making claims either way.

New Zealand is in a state of complete hysteria. The media and government response seems to be amplifying the hysteria. In Germany nobody cares if someone at their own workplace has coronavirus. The sick person just take a few days off and comes back when they feel better. No big deal, nothing to fear. The damage to the economy is something to be afraid of though. Long term unemployment, suicide, depression, mental illness, drug abuse and alcoholism. Get ready for that stuff in the next few years if the economy tanks.

Long-term unemployment, suicide, depression, mental illness, drug abuse, alcoholism...all similarly issues as we have continued to undermine the middle and lower classes by reducing the value of their work and transferring wealth to asset owners via central policy.

How little objection we've seen from those benefiting as these issues have grown. How much objection we now see.

You're mixing up the issues. That's Thomas Piketty / Steve Keen dynamics and I'd agree. Incidentally the RBNZ just approved 100b of QE. Re poverty, my own personal opinion is the governments policy on tobacco is directly causing poverty and depravation in NZ but that's not the issue at hand. The issue is the severe long lasting economic damage caused specifically by totally unnecessary lockdowns.

Less mixing the issues than doubting what I wonder may be crocodile tears from some parties. I.e. perhaps they're only worried that this debt cannot be solely passed to younger and future generations.

add in really significant educational disruptions.

That doesn't sound factual at all. Please provide scientifically proven links. Not fake news.

Fake news is what all the cool kids drink down these days.

Don't be lazy. Make up your own mind www.google.com/search?q=sweden+death+rate&tbm=nws

wow, those facts really highlight the facts.

12
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Well I'm glad we wasted our time with a lockdown.
It was stupid to think we could eliminate this, arrogant even.
Stupid to think there is any sensible solution aside from the one applied by Sweden.

There is the rub of it alright.... its looking more and more likely that our position was not the right one.
Its disappointing the government has not looked to include full suite of stakeholders from Economic and Health domains in their approach.
Case in point, was their decision to hold-off going down from level 4 and the Cost-Benefit of it in terms of Quality Adjusted Life Years - see Productivity Commission report https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/7014896-4281508-3.html#document/p1

Really....

21
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Well, down goes the economic uplift as hospo and non-essential businesses must close, and up goes the loan total as wage etc subsidies extensions will have to be rushed through to ensure the Electoral Purchase.

The helicopters will be getting loaded, to sprinkle the country with dosh.

Hope they know my address/bank account number, aye.

No no no. The helicopters are being loaded and will drop their cargo at the doors of banks and large businesses. No cash for you or I mate.

25
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Always a possibility but still a shock.
I hope we all now act responsibly and play our part. Melbourne serves as an example of this need.

I was going to go with "well f*ck", but your version is much more explanatory.

14
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Better stop drinking all my hand sanitizer....

10
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Glenfiddich is a great sanitizer, from the inside out.

depends on where you keep your hands.

20
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Geez Labour's internal polling must be have been bad.

14
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Needed a win after being caught lying a out the flu jabs.
Why is that not all over the news, blatant lies!
The question is can we trust Labour and what they tell us after that.....

was also the masks -- they did not have enough - nor any way of moving them - or distributing them -- anyone who runs community health services can confirm that -- they also changed teh mask guidance for health workers in teh community from wear to not wear unless symptomatic because of the lack of masks -- but on opening hair dressers had to wear them - when health workers visiting 6 or 7 different elderly people to support showering and meal prep did not - lots and lots of lies - not misinformation - LIES - as blatant as teh vaccines were

Better stock up on tinfoil

10
up

Rarotongan holiday this year now has just suddenly become highly unlikely.

Even if I promise to burn my winebox?

We need to see pictures of the infected people and we need to know where they have been to see if we have had contact with them.

You're kidding, right?

What if they sit at the next desk at work?

Then their employer will tell them they all need to get tested and not to come in to work and they'll have to self isolate?

There's no reason to publish photos of them, like they're criminals, for the whole country to see when the public health officers can take all necessary steps in tracing and testing their close contracts including work colleagues.

What if I sat next to them on a bus?

Are you seriously suggesting you would remember the face of someone you sat next to on a bus?

The public health staff are doing interviews with them to trace their movements. They'll put out public announcements about places they've been so people who have been to those locations can monitor themselves for symptoms and/or get tested. That is likely to include any public transport they took.

Are you serious? If you get the same bus every day for work you see the same faces all the time !

Why are people irresponsible. If they know they have Covid symptoms make an appointment with your GP or go to a hospital, immediately. For one person to have it is borderline in relation to responsibility, for three in the family is (totally) outrageously irresponsible.

15
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Sounds like that’s exactly what this guy did - he went to his GP and got a test, it came back positive. The rest of his family could have been asymptomatic, by all the evidence this guy did everything right.

symptomatic for 5 days.

I am questioning the 14 day incubation period. It may be longer and the virus might have mutated to lie dormant for more time before erupting somewhere, in some one. More such cases may show up in the future. Attack from the Unknown.

14
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This might go nuclear. One of the reasons we were lucky in the first outbreak was because it didnt get into South Auckland, particularly Pacifica people who are both communal and susceptible.

You are right Shore Thing - but as mentioned by Foyle - the timeline of 5 Days is very concerning.

You just reminded me of the news articial of the rest home with 8 cases of flu like symptoms.....

Yeah, Kezza. There was no comment tonight as to what is happening in Christchurch....!!!

It's always something here .. was sure Jacinda was going to say the cases were here in ChCh.

@Kotare,which is exactly why you can't compare Sweden to NZ...you can make the stats work for what ever your personal narrative is.
Anyone can do a back of the envelope calculation and come up with answer that suits them.
This would take years of study to drill down into the different racial demographics and numbers of people predisposed to getting ill such as diabetes etc that is rife through Pacifica & Maori peoples.
But as you rightly say,I hate to think what could have happened if this had got into South Auckland at the beginning of winter.

Come on - there has been a steady stream of of MSM articles trying to criticise Swedens approach and compare it to NZ. VOXEU published an article exploring the counterfactual of Sweden's approach suggesting a stringent lockdown would have saved a up to a third of the lives as a best case. The results are further discussed in various academic forums suggesting a wide variability with a good potential for the majority of deaths to have likely occured regardless of lockdown. The key point is we can't compare Sweden on the basis of its death rate. We can only look at it in terms of its effectiveness in its strategy, which was to flatten the curve, maintain happiness in society and preserve economic integrity. Under those measures, they have nailed it.

10
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Let me guess... transition source is the c**t who escaped quarantine to go wine shopping.

Can we rule out Merv from Manurewa leaving some baking on their doorstep that he had sent over from his cousin Mavis from Melbourne....

Categorical no on that.

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Really goes to show the futility of this whole exercise. We can stamp it out, lock the borders...at enormous cost. And it still gets in. Then repeat the original process until our way of life and economy are destroyed.

15
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It was only ever about buying time. We did buy quite a lot of it.

10
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Cost a hell of a lot too.

Less than the price of lockdown

14
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Yep this could really shag the economy now I think.

Thanking my lucky stars just sold our house for cash and downsized with $100k left over.

Wouldn't be surprised if we're all in level 4 by Fri.

Better stock up on the wine, etc all over again.

Brilliant move. I did mention it to my wife but she went on about wild horses and stuff like that before I zoned out.

What a lucky wife.

Did you leave 'un' out? :)

Haha. I began stocking up a few weeks ago. I was fortunate enough to do the same before the last lockdown. Not panic buying, just doubling the weekly shop while it's quiet. But then last night, once the news hit, the dread hit me - I hadn't got any wine. How could I be so stupid?!

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In meantime treatment protocols have improved a lot - potentially able to halve or third the 0.5% IFR, and we are getting ever closer to vaccines. It wasn't possible to know risk in earliest days, but now we have a clearer picture and rest of world economy is in the crapper, we may as well hold on for another 6 months. Treatments will continue to improve in that time, vaccines will likely become available and we can all get fit and healthy if we are truly worried about survival (lose weight, vit D).

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A rare rational and sensible comment amongst much hysteria and nonsense, thanks Foyle.

Travel into and out of Auckland will be restricted. However people can travel out of Auckland if their home is out of Auckland, or travel into Auckland if their home is in Auckland. 

WTF! Anyone heading out of Alk should be tested.
If it spreads from Alk due to no testing before they leave, Jancinda can kiss the election good by.

Even after all this time, they still can't think this through properly.

Really Dale. And what's your nationwide Covid Response plan then?

Well, you've had 3 weeks and some days on the site, that's enough time to tell us all about Your plan....

What does their time on this site have to do with the weight or veracity of their comments? Are we supposed to credit your comments more, simply for having been registered here for 9 years? That's some interesting logic.

Bit more than 3 weeks

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Did you forget the national party were pushing to move early from level 3 to 2? Under them, we would be worse than Victoria

Come on we know the boot would be on the other foot if they were calling the shots.
That's how it works, Labour dose one thing and National complaints that it was not the correct move. Labour would have been calling it the same if they weren't in power.

Maybe.

What we can be sure of is that National wouldn't have closed the border with China when Labour did - since they were whining about how it was closed.

So it's likely we would have had more cases of COVID-19 in New Zealand sooner than we did - recent RNA testing of the virus has shown that we didn't get any cases earlier than the 1st one that was identified on Feb 28 and that most of our cases came from the US. In which case the whole trajectory of what we experienced would have been different with National and Bill English in charge.

Jacinda one week before LD. "I will continue to hug people" " we are prepared" a letter from medical professionals arrived and WHOOPS LD time.
The point is National would have had to do the same.

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Had to happen after all the border issues ..
I figured we would be in lock down by August when we were told about hundreds of untested people having been let out from the quarantine in June .

Almost convinced myself we had got away with it . Unfortunately it turns out we are just a couple of weeks behind that schedule ...

Can incubate for upto 14 days but Labour tests at day 12 and let's them out.....

The median incubation period is 5 days and 95% confidence interval for incubation is 12 days, the idea being that they could have caught it immediately prior to arriving in NZ. They also monitor for symptoms during isolation etc.

The problem is of course the potential for people to get a fresh infection while in the isolation facilities - the positive case announced earlier today tested negative on day 3 and positive on day 12, so there's quite a few days in the middle there that they could have infected others, with those people testing negative on their 12 day test and then going out into the community and spreading it.

Logic to everyone except Labour.

They follow advice from the clinical experts.

But this whole "we can't treat them like prisoners" attitude never really made sense.

was letting hundreds of people out of quarantine without any testing in accordance with "advice from the clinical experts?"

Yes, Dr Bloomfield was the architect of that, if you consider him a clinical expert despite not being in practice
And it was around 15 hundred unleashed from quarantine without testing
And straight after that testing in Auckland was extremely severely restricted by case definition, and 2 weeks ago overweening overconfidence led to 5 out of 9 Auckland testing clinics being closed, and the remainder closed on weekends; at time of maximum risk.
Then we learn last week that Bloomfield is "considering" testing quarantine workers

Save us from these "experts"

True, I think we can have far more trust and confidence in our abundance of Facebook experts.

I would imagine Bloomfield and others are facing a constant situation of adjusting a mixing desk of sliders reallocating constrained resources. As the MoH said at the start, even when the constraint on money was removed there still existed a constraint on skilled people.

Testing is cheap compared to lockdowns, resources for testing in quarantines and community should not be an issue.
To be fair I'd blame Auckland DHB heads as much as the Director General.

Facebook expert Herr Strauss? I've done 6 COVID swabs today, how about you???

I blame Bloomfield for that. They had said people were going to be tested on day 3 and day 12 of isolation. What the people in the isolation centres were being told was that it was "voluntary" and if you didn't get a test on day 3 you could get one later on day 12.

The reason for saying it was "voluntary" is under NZ law you can't force people to have medical procedures, so when the directive from Bloomfield filtered down to the front-line workers, they interpreted that as "well, nothing has changed, just we can offer tests on day 3 and day 12".

It was foreseeable that the front-line staff would interpret the directive in that manner, so the directive should have been explicit and crystal clear, that you weren't getting out of isolation for 28 days unless you volunteered for testing on both day 3 and day 12.

I am questioning the 14 day incubation period. It may be longer and the virus might have mutated to lie dormant for more time before erupting somewhere, in some one. More such cases may show up in the future. Attack from the Unknown.

Sounds logical, but no chance we have the capability to do that.

It is a possibility, what isn't there is effective management to create that.

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So glad I just leveraged up a truck load more on squillion dollar damp housing. Oh that's right...I didn't.

Popcorn

Always look on the bright side of life!

I had a Monty highlights session tonight. Nothing like Monty nonsense for nonsensical times!

10
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Wow, 50 comments in less than one hour, this has gone viral.
Ha!

49 of those were Kezza R, to be fair.

And a couple of those 49 were relatively even keeled.

First wave didn’t do enough damage, people still spending up, house price did not decline, time to introduce second wave!
Can’t believe it. Must close the border.

So.... Is the election still on or is Cindy going to go totalitarian mode?

I honestly think that how we deal with this covid 19 should be a referendum issue and let citizens choose their own poison.

You can just tell that she loves the control.

You sound jealous.

Is a woman in control emasculating?

She was specifically asked this in the press conference and her answer (that I don't believe) is that she had not given any thought to it at all, and was totally 100% focused on responding to this new issue.

She did go on to say that the electoral commission had of course been planning on how to hold the election during alert level 2, and that any decisions about postponing the election, which is 6 weeks away, is totally hypothetical at the moment since they don't have data about what the situation around community transmission actually is.

I think them labour postponing the election will work to their favor as it lets jacinda do all her generic PR talks that will make her seem resourceful.

To this day I still think she had not done anything out of the extraordinary and had simply just stuck with what most normal people would do, but somehow she is a great leader???

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And yet no other country has achieved what we have.

Part of it is communicating clearly and getting the public onside.

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The population is getting a bit sick of Labours lack of delivery and screw up amd we just had the flu jab lie exposed as well.

Really? Haven't heard many people who even care about the flu jab story.

102 days in the clear was pretty good. And world beating.

We are an isolated island with low population. Anything other than world beating would be a disgrace.

Great isn't it? Govt lies to us, media/population yawns, so govt learns that it's better to lie more in future.

The population doesn't seem that keen to jump from the frying pan into Judith's fire, though. Apart from the rabid regulars.

At this point on the basis of appearing comparatively somewhat reasonable David Seymour has become by default the effective leader of the opposition.

Have very little love for Seymour, but he's been brilliant with his line of questioning during COVID.

Yeah, he has been pretty reasonable. His reasonableness covers some of their unreasonable and overly theoretical / idealistic policies. He doesn't seem to have many of strength at the layers under him, unfortunately.

But I like their ideas on tax, although it's a shame they don't seek to address property investment welfare.

Meanwhile Judith relies heavily on reading her questions directly from the page, with her index finger tracking over each word, speaking slowly for the benefit of only herself.

'Karen' Collins speaks like that so her constituents can understand her,otherwise there is a whole room full of people turning to each other asking "what did she say dear? "

Never had the flu jab so a non story to me and a few others..but you can let it ruin another day for you.

That's my point communicating to the public is what any one normal in any role would do.

She is nothing special but we treat her special somewhat because other leaders are terrible in comparison

She was recently recognised as the "most eloquent" world leader.

I think it's a bit silly to say she's only average at communication. It's definitely one of her strengths, whatever her other weaknesess may be.

She's really good at communicating to people who like to be treated like children.

If children can understand, the rest of us should 'get it' then. Maybe that's part of why NZ has been moderately successful thus far.

To quote Jungian Archetypes, we are typically characterised by Everyman Sage personas. We were always going to get it without being spoken to like children. Jacinda can't take credit for our culture and nor should she deserve it.

It seems increasingly easy to predict which people get the most upset at Jacinda's speaking style. Perhaps an insecurity matter.

It seems increasingly easy to identify cheerleaders too. They can't stand critical thinkers for one. They would be better off living in China or North Korea.

I certainly appreciate critical thinkers when I see them. Gingerninja, for example. Unfortunately they seem rare among the perennially angry at "Cindy" crowd, bringing little in new thought or discourse to the table beyond template talking points.

A critical thinker isn't one who just agrees with you.

That makes 0 sense if you think critically about what you said means in practice.

That was me disagreeing with you, btw.

Unfortunately being a 'critical thinker' seems to be a title bestowed by many on themselves without any input from others.

I hope you don't think yourself as a crticial thinker then.

No,but I can spell ;-)

But you can't use spaces properly. Oops.

Have you seen Judith Collins at question time? Significant pauses between each word, finger tracking the page. I suspect she's not communicating slowly for the benefit of anyone else but her self.

So after all the time and lucky breaks and chances to perfect it the quarantine system has failed. For want of a sufficient diligence and perhaps a few millions they'll be costing the country billions more. Typically poor coalition performance. And why hide positive test for a day and a half to allow more spread? Likely an election postponement will be needed. Be fascinating to see which way polls go in response to this.

My daughter got out of quarantine this morning and flew straight home, lucky for her.

15
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Does this mean the winter blues are coming in Barfoot & Thompson's auction rooms after all?

Should have shorted Rent Seeking Parasite (RSP) and gone long Doom and Gloom Merchant (DGM).

Hahaha nice.

Howdy

12
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Is it too late to nuke Auckland as a precautionary measure? Does this count as our second wave?

We have nukes??

Yes, hidden in Marlborough.

‘Subs’ replacing Chinese ‘Cruise’ ships?

targeting Wellington would offer greater benefits in the long term.

An earthquake will do the job for you if you are patient.

The Mikhail Lermontov was a missile cruiser.

Do you reckon one of the ships docked at auckland is a Beirut in the making..

13
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Imagine owning a restaurant stocked with perishable goods, like fish. Even a few days close down has a huge impact.

Many businesses just can't survive with this chop and changing.

And are Butchers and Greengrocers 'essential' this time around? Or do we have to start counting suicides as their assets rot?

I don't think we can afford this, just going to kill the economy

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/08/11/the-lockdown-has-been-a-catastr...

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I can see lockdown fatigue setting in fairly quickly. Don't think they will get the same buy in this time.

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I agree. Initial/first lockdown was a one off to buy time and get the virus under control. We are now much better prepared, capacity has improved, treatment has improved to the extent that fatality is down and we now have better track/trace and information systems.

It's basic human psychology that we will not achieve as much compliance with subsequent lockdowns, not least of all because of the economic impact and global reactions.

If we look at the rest of the world, we can see that eventually, people will just do whatever the f%$k they want, irrelevant of a novel-virus and Western culture only ever has so much tolerance for paternalism. Ultimately, after the initial strategy to prepare and buy time, we need to just let people decide their own individual preference and exposure to risk, with some government assistance in protecting the most vulnerable. If people want to contract a new novel virus with unknown long term effects, eventually that builds until you have a break down in the relationship between the government and the people. I personally think its nuts to risk personal exposure to a novel virus and will be acting accordingly, however, that's my choice. The narrative that builds when peoples freedoms are curtailed and there is not a majority populace buy in, could be even uglier and more immediately catastrophic that the virus. We are in for a very tricky path forward.

we need to protect the most vulnerable, the rest of you are on your own.

Agreed.

We really need to spend some bucks on building some dedicated quarrantine facilities outside of Auckland, staffed by people who don't live in Auckland. Making largest population center the quarantine hub is a major mistake. Locking down a small town is vastly cheaper.

Huntly?? After all they are voted to be the S... Town of nz :D

Tents on Waiheke, anyone?

Ohakea? Probably need somewhere with some geographic isolation and good runway facilities.

Solomon Islands?

We are catching a fligth to Moscow tomorrow. Au revoir.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12355763

God, I wouldn't touch one of those Russian vaccines with a barge pole.

A vaccine brought to you by the same people that gave the world Novichok.

That could actually mean they are competent.

hm .. killed an innocent bystander - but not the target ? competence indeed.

Всего́ хоро́шего!

Try the polonium tea. I hear it's to die for.

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Extend the mortgage holiday another 5 years. Print and spend another 10bn. We'll be right.

Yeah why not.

What’s the betting we get that announcement later?

So are people still allowed to line up and buy lotto? I had seen some shops with 20 people lined up last week. Wonder how they will manage those?

Lotto was main headline over the past week so yeah, grab that Powerball

Central Banks of the world unite led by the fed. Can't any of you see this is an organised takedown of the economy and banking system. Central banks want total control. They will issue central bank digital currency and ubi. Need a chip and covid passport to get it. Society will embrace it as the test run was so successful in compliance.

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True bruh!!! Those 5G towers are still up and operational!!! Should had torched them all!!!

Damn new world order!!!

5G is safe

1984 come late ?

The problem is that another strict lockdown is about the only tool in the tool box for managing this currently.
Our hospitals have not built any capacity and are already totally overwhelmed with the usual winter ailments.
It seems almost certain that more cases will be found, confirming community transmission and level 4 will be put in place for Auckland at the minimum.
Of course it won’t just put the brakes on the Auckland economy either, how many bits for my new house in the Waikato will be due to come down from Auckland and now won’t be available as the supplier is closed due to lockdown? There will be a chain effect right across the country as a literal and figurative roadblock is dropped onto our economy.
The banks are going to put the brakes on lending severely if we go to a second lockdown as well, as it will surely result in plenty more job losses as it becomes apparent that we are not going to get back to business as usual any time soon.

Labour was more intent on giving 10m to keep a bunch of caves from collapsing rather than building hospital beds. They should have built thousands of them. They are being advised by a small group of blinkered scientists who are only focussed on elimination so alternative outcomes are being ignored.

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our work has been preparing for the last ten days, people that work at the border dont get tested, dont wear masks, dont get temp checked when they start work, and that was identified months ago by the health department but no action was taken.
its only an 18 hour flight from LAX and 3 hours from MEL, the chance of someone cleaning the plane, unloading the baggage, taking off the old food and replacing with new meals , talking to the passengers etc, was very high sooner or later catching it, it could have been on a surface and they could have touched it then scratched their nose
they seemed to focus on the quarantine, now they are finally going to test everyone at the airport
bit late, should have been started weeks ago, the security guards at the entrance to jet park only started wearing masks on monday this week
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300075002/leaked-cov...

.

You know how nz is.... The she will be alright and 8mm wire approach is law!!!

The days of #8 wire are gone in NZ.

Yeah its #10 or #12 now (higher tensile). And our predominantly urban population grow up never handling tools, mostly raised by parents who have never learned how to make fix or repair anything. On the upside trades keep getting better and better paid as population become more and more useless at doing things for themselves.

2.5mm, 3.15mm, 3.55mm, 4mm. All HT
Metrics now

I had assumed the quarantine measures started the moment the passengers walked off the aircraft because after all that would be logical and sensible.

This may not have come from the airport.
It may have just been quietly circulating the whole time and we haven't picked it up.
And why would we there was very little randomised testing. No incentive really to get a test actually a disincentive for a long time as you had to self isolate until the test result was back. So the testing has a giant skew...towards people showing symptoms....towards people who can afford a day or two off.....towards people who haven't been scared witless by the media and government fear mongering....towards people who swallowed the government messaging and didn't want to burden the health system. And we beat it with the lockdown right, we eliminated it so why bother getting a test it's likely just a cold......
And all this on top of the fact that what you might be displaying (if you are displaying anything) are cold like symptoms. How many people here go to the doctor if they have a cold anyway, nevermind now? Not many I suspect and I certainly don't. You go to a doctor when things get serious and for the vast imajority if people with covid that never happens.
Test results and any data we might take from them are skewed up the wazoo.
We should have been doing randomised testing the while time.
A simple explanation is community spread never went away and it has quietly been spreading through the population and we haven't noticed because actually it's not that bad.

How’s that contact tracing app going?

The tinfoil hat crowd swore off it ages ago. Ranting on Facebook about being tracked everywhere without realising the irony.

Rick...it is rude to refer to the "critical thinkers" amongst us as tinfoil hat wearers...

Well a vaccine has just been announced so not sure why y'all so paranoid on Prison Isle. Gold dropping as well. It is risk-off everywhere in the world except down under lol

Plummeting. Silver down 14%.

Wonder if anyone will question the legality of this one.

L3 is eerily similar to L4 now, in fact can anyone tell the difference?

The latest CDC estimates of covid mortality rate is between 0.5 to 0.8%.

Basically a 2x flu. The cost benefit of this elimination approach is becoming increasingly dire. Hopefully we recognize this before we lose our whole economy and way of life.

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Cost benefit analysis is not just on death though. It's long term negative health effects and debilitation, which is all new information still coming in. Fatality has come down because we are better prepared, more informed, have increased capacity and have had time to experiment with treatments. Without initial lockdowns, the picture would have looked very different. We won't and can't know how different for a long time, but you are certainly making assumptions and simplistic conclusions that do not take into account the real situation. Pandemics would have a negative economic impact regardless. Apples with apples.

Some of that may be true but it is also true that fatality rate is dropping due to more testing and that is far and away the largest portion of the mortality rate drop.
You state apples to apples but we don't and can't know the long term affects of lockdown any more than the virus.
And you state this overly cleanly. Lockdown is not just about money. It is about mental health, education, personal rights and freedoms (freedoms which many people have willingly sacrificed their lives for). It is something that, as always will disproportionately effect the poor when the virus itself disproportionately effects the old and already sick. So lockdown has very real class implications as well.
It also shifts the Overton window. Lockdown is now a thing we do. Something scares us, we go into lockdown. Like rabbits freezing. It seems a primitive reaction based on the facts at hand and for most people largely unnecessary.
I think something like lockdown should not have been bought into our discourse on such a low threat disease. We now seem to be mired in a lockdown mentality where there is little thought given (at least in the mainstream) to possible alternatives.
A lot of our personal freedoms have been badly eroded. Freedoms that previous generations took very seriously and died for. I think that is a very dangerous thing.
There are always good reasons for draconian measures like lockdowns, at the time. The danger is that they stick around....which they seem to be unfortunately.

You appear to want to have your cake at eat it too though. Pandemic's, certainly widespread pandemics have a huge impact on mental health. On many areas of health, post-viral syndromes often have extremely negative mental health consequences. But also, we have hindsight bias, we didn't know about widespread asymptomatic cases in the beginning. When we initially opted to lockdown, what did we know about the virus? I am guessing if there had been no lockdown, government's would have been criticised for that instead (and they were in the countries that initially chose that course). And what about the psychology of fear and panic that existed in the early stages of the pandemic, when there was little information, people were hoarding, videos on youtube of punch ups over loo roll. What if that had escalated?
There are many, many unknowns but so many commentators claim to know. I don't claim to know but I am pointing out that we *can't* know yet but also, to highlight where there are biased and unfair claims (like hindsight bias).
I was an advocate of the early lockdown to buy time, increasing testing and treatment capacity, gain more information etc. I am not an advocate of subsequent lockdowns and never have been (unless some new information comes out that points to that necessity). I think at this stage, government needs to protect the vulnerable and then let everyone else make their own choices. I personally do not want to contract the virus because of the unknown longer term effects but at this stage, i think that has to be personal choice. We can opt for moderate mitigation strategies (masks, social distancing etc) without heavy economic toll and without widespread public back lash. I think further lockdowns could be socially dangerous moving forward.

I wouldn't envy anyone having to make public policy during a pandemic but everyone on here appears to know best. I wonder what the world would look like if all the armchair insta-epidemiologists and self proclaimed experts with youtube channel and rando-blog data ran the world.

And the CDC are likely underestimating asymptomatic rates (their own admission).
Many lockdowns (including the UK and Norway) started after the virus had already started to reduce.
There is as least as much evidence that lockdowns don't do much as there is evidence that they do (to viral infection rates).
The latest estimates from the UK are 30k deaths caused directly by lockdown. And the 5 year excess death rate is well down for this time of the year implying what many said from the start, covid predominantly kills the already weak and sick who would have died soon anyway.
The same would go for the symptoms of the virus. There is evidence of drastic symptoms including death....however the vast majority have very minor or no symptoms and most do not die. So why is everyone so afraid by default?
And why is there no debate about this in NZ? It seems we are certain this is a horrible disease that kills high amounts of people and that lockdown are the only way to deal with it, when this is not the case.
I can accept a decision that I don't agree with as long as the debate is there. Here there is no debate just the fear narrative that has poisoned the discourse.
For instance for the last month or so the media has stopped announcing the deaths with every update. Why? Is it because the fatality rate is dropping like a stone as a result of better testing and that maybe isn't such a great clickbait headline? I have no love for Trump but he keeps trotting that out and logical he is right, more testing means more detection. Even an idiot can get things right by chance. Good luck getting anyone in the media to say Trump is right about something.

BI - do some homework. Your 'economy' (and by association I presume your way of life) was doomed in the near-term anyway. It's been a case of exponential draw-down for 200 years and has been on steroids for 12.

An economy encompasses a lot of things not just extractive industry's and farming. It also includes schools and hospitals and charities and cafes and libraries and so on.....another name for economy can easily be society.
As such it is not mine nor do I claim it. And what ever it is, good or bad, I don't see how kicking it in the teeth for a relatively low risk disease like this is very valuable. And it won't stop the drawdown, which I imagine is a separate issue to what we are discussing here.

You imagine wrong.

The 'economy' is energy-demanding work being done, to extracted resources. They are processed, consumed and excreted. That's it. A one-way, linear, cessation-guaranteed process.

Where you are mistaken is in all those other activities. They are merely churn. We have socially-agreed (through union protest etc) that various activities are rewarded by X access to the resource-stream. Whether those activities take place or not, is irrelevant. If the linear flow is going to cease, so is the availability of the stuff we expect to 'buy'.

So it's not 'separate', it's 'entirely dependent'. And we are well into the 'period of consequences'

wrong as ever.

more like 10x flu, though a number of treatments have been identified that might bring it back to only a few times worse.

Brought all the nails at mitre10, found the hammer just need the coffin and all set.

Heh. Bought a brushless motor nail gun, 2000 each of 90 and 45 ring-shanked nails, have some nice totara sarking in the garage ceiling. Pop it through the thicknesser, get plans off the Interwebs before they succumb, bingo, all set for the Extinction Event.

Or not, as the case may be.

I think it shows how immature and incompetent this government is. it is time to vote them out. But, the problem is, we don't have good alternatives. It is a shame that we don't have good leaders.
Cheers.

Labour are a bunch of incompetent no hopers put into Govt by Winston Peters and National a party ready to sell our country to the highest bidders and consign kiwis to serfdom.

I despair.

As soon as we started letting in returning Kiwis this was bound to happen. Lets not forget Nats wanted to open up foreign students and workers full bore again. Now they are saying its the Govts fault for letting people back in. Flip de flop right there. Mid you its is that time every three years where "any press is good press".

You would have thought after the virus was contained good time for reflection, reassessment, and a look around the rest of the world! Of kiwis getting the virus 98.4% did not die!! 22 or so from rest homes died. Sweden has done better than many countries that were locked down and economy is hugely better. Spain had one of the most draconian lockdowns and after release had a huge resurgence. We have painted ourselves into a corner!!

and economy is hugely better.

Is it? Not from data others have posted. Perhaps post the data you're referring to?

We still do not protect the highest risk areas well enough, rest homes are super vulnerable and should have tight controls even at level 1-2

Imagine a quarantined person escaping a facility and using a phone at a rest home, oh wait - that happened already!... if they managed to spread COVID there... that could have led to disaster and increased our death toll = very real risk

Most of our deaths have occurred at rest homes, yet they are overlooked - we also know the border was a high risk area which got addressed after the govt recognised the failure and tightened controls using the military

Sweden's done well, made the top ten.
.
.
.
Top ten highest deaths per million pop.

10
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Crikey,this forum is becoming like talkback radio for people who 'think' they are the intelligentsia.
I'm looking out for 'Merv' from Manurewa to chime in with his expert view on Covid.

Presumably they all think they would have done a better job? I wonder what the world would look like with all the angry keyboard warriors informed by youtube channels were in charge?

Always a pleasure to read your posts in comparison, gingerninja.

Look no further than the USA to see what it would look like.

The only standpoint is to admit no one knows what they're doing, no one escapes death, and the best thing we can do is debate COVID thought experiments in the interim. Anything else, and you're fooling yourself.

Party on Merv.

One problem I see is that whenever the government comes up with rules or policies, they are complex and on top of that, there are gazillian exceptions that they approve on ad hoc basis. A rule is rule. You cannot risk the lives and economy of 5 million by granting exceptions to a few well connected or dare I say, whiners. A Public Policy has to be in the interest of public at large, for greater good. These are difficult times and so if someone can't attend a funeral, it is not life or death. Even in case of life or death of one, one has to compare that to lives and death of 5 million. But I guess, all the exceptions are granted in the name of good PR, or politics.

That is why I say, we are doomed, either with Labor, who want to spend our tax dollars as if there is no tomorrow, or National, who are ready to sell NZ to China. NZ First and Greenies are in their own league.

Good luck NZ.

Woke-ism destroyed utilitarian-ism along time ago. We cannot see who the infected are, purely to confirm we have not had contact, because it might hurt their feelings?

I do have concerns for peoples mental health through all of this....I mean,just read some of the crazy rants & conspiracy theories in here alone.You couldn't make this sh*t up...oh,sorry,many in here do.

Forget investing in properties in Auckland, the time is NOW for investing in toilet paper..

LOL
Thanks for the entertainment CM.

"and the Government confirmed this morning it was working with lawyers on a legal notice to make masks mandatory for Aucklanders to wear while out and about in public."

Will this mean I need to wear a mask when out for my daily walk? That would be silly.

It's not clear but wearing a mask when you can't achieve social distancing would make more sense.

Hopefully they can apply some sense to the rules along the lines of: Masks mandatory whenever you are within 2m of non-shared bubble people.

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