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Labour pledges to let around 1,400 critical workers through the border every month; Doesn't signal intention to expand managed isolation capacity for now

Labour pledges to let around 1,400 critical workers through the border every month; Doesn't signal intention to expand managed isolation capacity for now
Megan Woods

Labour is promising to set aside 10% of managed isolation capacity for critical workers, should it be re-elected into government.

Under the current system, this would see 1,400 critical workers enter the country a month. 

Since June 18, 1,855 critical workers, plus their dependents, have been invited to apply for a visa. This is the first hurdle they need to clear to enter the country.

Labour didn't say when it would implement its quota, but a spokesperson told interest.co.nz the aim was to put it in place "as soon as practical". 

The party didn't indicate an intention to increase managed isolation capacity.

“While new evidence or technologies, or the establishment of a safe travel zone with Australia might increase capacity, until then we must be cautious about considering significant expansion of capacity, or changing our isolation model,” Labour said in its policy document.

Speaking at a Deloitte and Chapman Tripp Election Conference hosted by BusinessNZ, Labour leader Jacinda Ardern said: “Our border is our first line of defence and we will need to maintain our strict controls at the border until the world advances effective treatments and an effective vaccination or vaccinations.”

48,000 people have entered New Zealand through managed isolation to date.

Labour is also committing to reviewing immigration criteria to enable a broader range of workers to enter New Zealand. It didn’t provide much detail around this.

The Government recently announced changes to allow additional people to come into New Zealand. This includes partners of New Zealand citizens and residents, and new border exceptions for normally resident work visa holders with strong, ongoing links to New Zealand and an existing job or business.

Here’s a press release from Labour:

  • Enable a 10 percent quota for critical workers as we further develop the allocation system for managed isolation places 
  • Review immigration criteria to enable a broader range of workers to enter New Zealand
  • New Investment Attraction Strategy to encourage targeted and high-value international investment into New Zealand

The Labour Party will manage immigration settings, border controls and access to critical skilled workers for business with a balance that will support New Zealand’s economic recovery while ensuring ongoing health protections against COVID-19.

Labour Leader Jacinda Ardern says the strict border controls New Zealand has in place for people’s entry, isolation, quarantine and testing, have been critical in limiting COVID-19’s spread.

“Labour will continue to operate strict border controls to protect New Zealanders’ health, but we know we also have to manage New Zealand’s economic need for skilled workers to help the country’s recovery,” Jacinda Ardern said.

“Labour will work with business, industry and the primary sector to identify where there is genuine and justified need for critical and skilled workers, and adjust the border exception settings to ensure their entry path is streamlined and remains safe,” spokesperson for Immigration Kris Faafoi said.

“At the same time, we’ll review where further adjustments and improvements can be made to expand eligibility for people who can bring their skills and investment to New Zealand enterprise and help the recovery,” Kris Faafoi said.

“The ability to open up the country more and encourage economic opportunities, while keeping COVID contained, relies on strong government-run managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ) systems,” spokesperson for Managed Isolation and Quarantine Megan Woods said. 

“The current MIQ network has served New Zealand well and managed the safe entry of nearly 50,000 people so far.

“The system has sufficient capacity for about 14,000 people a month to enter New Zealand and while we will consider any new evidence, technology or changes to the isolation model that might allow us to grow those numbers, keeping people safe is our number one priority,” Megan Woods said.

Megan Woods said Labour is committed to further development of a managed isolation and quarantine allocation system to ensure MIQ can accommodate both New Zealand citizens and residents, as well as those bringing their critical economic input into the country. 

The allocation system will ensure a majority of MIQ places are always available for returning New Zealanders, with 10 percent of capacity set aside for critical workers and other entrants, she said.

“Careful management of our border, backed by one of the strictest managed isolation and quarantine systems in the world, has seen New Zealand keep COVID-19 contained at levels that only few countries have managed to achieve,” Jacinda Ardern said.

“It has given us the opportunity to capitalise on New Zealand’s strong record and reputation globally when it comes to limiting COVID’s spread. The New Zealand Labour Party’s   experience and robust border management policies will allow us to leverage opportunities to support our country’s recovery.

“We will ensure people with unique experience and technical or specialist skills that are not readily obtainable in New Zealand can enter the country safely. We’re doing this so that we don’t hold back economic opportunities in our recovery,” Jacinda Ardern said.

Labour will also launch an Investment Attraction Strategy to encourage targeted and high-value international investment into New Zealand.

The first phase will be an increase in funding for New Zealand Trade and Enterprise and the Innovative Partnerships programme, who work with companies to invest in New Zealand - including by locating part of their business here. The funding will be $12 million per year, split equally between NZTE and Innovative Partnerships.

Here's a policy document from Labour.  

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76 Comments

25
up

why don't we just pay decent wages to locals to upskill/train whatever. Depressing local wages with imported labour is going to have negative outcomes for our communities

What's critical about a tractor driver? I can drive a tractor, it's not rocket science. You just need to pay me properly, if you can drive a car I can teach you to drive a tractor ( thank god for podcasts). Why should I sit in a 500K tractor on little more than min wage?

This low wage unskilled market for imported worked needs to be shut down, unless they really are skilled in IT medicine etc.

Andrew that is such an uneducated and out of touch position it's farcical. Ag machinery operators are in short supply and paid very well ~$35-40/hr + accommodation. " if you can drive a car I can teach you to drive a tractor ( thank god for podcasts)." - that statement is ludicrous, these operators aren't driving around on flat open paddocks towing a hay trailer - which I suspect you well know.
As for paying decent wages - just watched a clip from a Marlborough vineyard regarding RSE pruners. Hourly rate ~$25-35/hr. Owner advertised the length of the country - # of applicants from NZrs - a big fat ZERO.

20
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I don't care what you have to pay, meet the market for wages or go home. These operations are subsidised by taxpayers. If we have a problem with people being unwilling to work then sort it out but don't hide behind 'the locals don't want to do it'. NZ is a very expensive country to live in and wages need to reflect that.

I remember sitting on a bulldozer disking hill country when I was 14, modern tractors are not that hard so long as you start slow. Yes roll overs are a problem but that's associated with speed.

"Yes roll overs are a problem but that's associated with speed" - WRONG!! rollovers are caused by inattention/inexperience and/or overconfidence. Ever driven a grain header? what about a maize harvester or perhaps a multi mower silage/hay cutter, what about towing a baler?? An undersower?? Your dad letting you play on the disks (which you can't really screw up) is a big difference to operating modern harvesting and tillage equipment efficiently without damaging the gear or your clients property

yep done it all, spent a season in Alberta when I was 20, had my heavy truck licence and my pilots license. Steep hill country isn't easy on a bulldozer, I learnt the basics very fast. Looking back my father was completely crazy letting me do that so young. I alberta I drove a 430hp tractor for a bit, I am more a stock person so it wasn't a huge amount of fun, and huge days
'

Link me one of these $35-$40 per hour + accommodation jobs. If they do exist, I'd be tempted to jump at that.

Those rates are for experienced operators (5yrs+) Starting rates are closer to $20

16
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I got offered a job last year by a friend who need someone to drive a specialized seed drill. 1.6km an hour all gps, offered me $25 a hour. I had to travel 45 mins to work. After tax/gst that amount of pay is a joke in NZ. I can get a pilots licence in a year, why would i need 5 years experience to drive a tractor on crap wages?

20
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Im pissed off today because a good friend took his life last night. Life just stinks sometimes.

Oh man. A farmer?

He was off a farm up the coast, his brother ran the farm, he worked in farm related stuff. Moved up North a few years ago and I didn't see as much of him. Before that he dropped in for coffee every month or two. I talked to my sister who saw him recently and said he appeared super happy with life.

Truly sorry to hear that, Andrewj. My condolences to you and family.

You might get a PPL in a year but a CPL takes longer and no one hires freshmen pilots to fly, they start as groundies - No operator wants their aircraft spread all over the landscape by an FNG pilot.
You should have negotiated with your "mate" for travel time but 45mins drive is hardly an imposition. That's just life mate - suck it up buttercup

well it might sound okay, but that is a tank of fuel a week. I get taxed at %30, i get to pay $140 a week for fuel out of the after tax amount.That fuel has about $70 of tax on it. I'm working a day a week for the gas money. The average rent around here is over $400 a week. It's easy to see how people struggle. My building mates are on $50, why should I not get that incontrol of 500k of machinery?

If you're getting taxed at 30% I can understand why you wouldn't work for $25/hr. Your building mates will be getting $50/hr because they're on contract rates, supplying all tools and equipment. Remember the $25/hr also gains 10% of that for annual holidays, 2% for sick leave, 3% for KS contributions, so it's closer to $28.75 less about 12% in tax so you're back to $25 - 1K /wk (for 40 hrs) after tax. More than liveable.. imo

20
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there is lays the problem, employers have been not willing to pay for training for staff, they want them fully trained already, and when they can not find them they complain oh wo is me i need to import from a cheaper country with dubious qualifications.
i have seen it in my industry time and again and when the immigrant fails they punt them for another, but they will not take on a younger kiwi and foot the bill or take the time to train them up.
in the last ten years we have gone from a small percentage of immigrants to a high percentage of immigrants but we are not getting the young coming through, the whole kiwi experienced workforce is retiring out of existence and these are the guys that used to train and pass on the knowledge to the younger ones

Employers are unwilling to train because the client won't pay for the training and not every employer trains. Therefor to train someone (it's not cheap) your overheads are higher than someone who doesn't and eventually you start losing business or your balance sheet suffers. Also there has been the historical (and ongoing) problem that once someone has been trained they promptly skip to Aussy for the supposed higher wages (and then find out the grass isn't always greener).
It's the client that drives business behaviour and if the client continually focuses on the lowest cost, business must reduce its costs to compete

12
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They don't train because they don't have to, they can dip into the pool of people on short term work visas.

That's a generalisation andrew. Most don't train because they can't afford to

then there is something wrong with our cost structures.
Training is essential for young people if they want to climb up the ladder. I have plenty of friends who have gone back to taking on apprentices, but not in farming, building, electrical ,mechanical.

If you cannot afford to pay a living wage and train the local populace ,then we have a really big problem in rural NZ, mostly to do with debt capture by banks.

"debt capture by banks". The problem with the entire NZ economy

"then there is something wrong with our cost structures." Couldn't agree more. I contract to a large Heavy Industry player who effectively controls the manning levels of another permanent on site contractor. That contractor asked me to backfill a position for them but baulked when they found my charge rate is 20% higher than what they charge.They'll fill the position with another subby who charges less but doesn't have as high a skillset. That same client refused to pay for the contractor to take on an apprentice, they even refused to go 50/50. Unfortunately everything is about "profit above all else" but it's just what it is

It is not rocket science - just ensure there is a substantial cost for a work visa. That's what other countries do. Then if the skill is truly rare and the demand urgent the employer pays say $1,000pw to our govt to employ the foreigner. If our govt has any sense it would use such fees to subsidise training kiwis.

'dipping into the pool of ST visa' people can work for task focused process jobs and some technical roles but often doesn't for jobs where cultural adaptability and relationship building capability are critical to outcomes - which in some businesses can be a significant majority.

Starting rates are closer to $20

That's always the catch, isn't it.

Look at all these well-paid jobs! Heaps of them! Whenever we advertise for it, we don't get any applicants!

You just have to be experienced, and to get that experience you have to suffer through multiple years of being paid barely enough to live ($20 is below the 'liveable wage'). If you can even find someone who is willing to take on an entry-level employee who they have to train.

Employers refuse to pay what is necessary to train staff, and then complain when they can't find anyone with the skills they need.

Lanthanide, if you had experience in owning a business you would know that a new employee has to "hit the ground running" in today's environment. As I said above - it's the client that governs the charge rates which governs the pay rates and the ability to train. The client wants the cheapest, fastest completion and most employers can't afford any non productive labour on a site. An apprentice is no use to a business until at least their 3rd year so it's a big drain on resources, plus the added slowdown of another productive worker as they train the apprentice. If there was a subsidy to train through to qualification that would be a gamechanger but no party is suggesting that, which is shortsighted

So the company needs to offer a better product or service, with better customer service, than their competitors do, so they can justify the higher prices that they can use to ensure their business is a success going into the future.

I say this as a partner of someone who runs a very successful business, primarily through offering very high levels of customer service and always doing an excellent job. He charges higher than the competition does and still has more work than he can get through and gives his staff 10% time for training per week.

Apparently that's too much work, though, easier to complain about competitors than it is to actually put in the effort yourself and consider from a customer perspective what your company is like to work with and what you offer.

Too many businesses in NZ are not actually businesses, because the owner can't take 3 months of leave and be sure that the company will tick over in their absence. If you can't do that, you don't have a business, you have a paid hobby. Getting to a point where you can take 3 months off without worrying means training and investing in your staff and business processes.

So I'm picking your partner is in the "Professional Services" industry? Giving his staff 10% of time per week for professional development is laudable but has he taken on a completely new inexperienced graduate or intern lately? In the "blue collar" world that luxury doesn't often exist - far too much competition

Giving his staff 10% of time per week for professional development is laudable but has he taken on a completely new inexperienced graduate or intern lately?

His entire staff are graduate hires from uni.

Haha.. knew there had to be a trick. No wonder he can afford to give them 10%/wk.. Gotta say though, he'd be a brave man taking 3 months off and leaving his business to a bunch of new Grads to run.. they'd run it alright - straight into the ground

He's paying them the average salary for their industry, which is at least $80k pa. Nice salary for your first job out of uni.

Pay peanuts, get monkeys.

Gotta say though, he'd be a brave man taking 3 months off and leaving his business to a bunch of new Grads to run.. they'd run it alright - straight into the ground

That's why you invest in their training and in business processes, so the company can run itself, and you actually have a company not a hobby.

You didn't mention what your partner's business does?

I'm not planning on giving away too much personally identifiable information, no.

The point is, you can invest in your staff if you make an effort to, and you justify your increased costs to your clients based on the superior service you provide them.

He's had bad hires btw, 1 he had to manage out, another who resigned when the writing was on the wall, another who decided the job wasn't for him and another who interviewed really well but then turned out not to be able to do the job so was managed out.

He's also fired customers, who are rude, arrogant, assholes or just overall hassles to deal with. You can do that when you run a successful business.

The actual point Lanthanide is if you're in an industry that is professionally protected and clients have little or no choice but to use your services then yes, you can probably differentiate by "service offerings". If you're in an industry with multiple competitors and the sale is in the production of an end product it's not that easy. BTW .. your partners Graduates are coming to him pre qualified so he's merely adding experience, big difference to taking someone off the street and training them from scratch

The actual point Lanthanide is if you're in an industry that is professionally protected and clients have little or no choice but to use your services then yes, you can probably differentiate by "service offerings".

Not all of the work he does is professionally protected, and there are other areas of the same industry that aren't.

If you're in an industry with multiple competitors and the sale is in the production of an end product it's not that easy.

So you differentiate yourself by delivering a product that always matches the specification, that's always done on time when you say it will be, and you sort any and all problems that might arise in a timely manner and are always pleasant to deal with. Doesn't hurt to tell your customers about your vision for your company and your willingness to train up the new generation of workers while you're at it.

BTW .. your partners Graduates are coming to him pre qualified so he's merely adding experience, big difference to taking someone off the street and training them from scratch

Because poly techs and other training courses don't exist?

Obviously training someone who literally has no experience in your industry at all is a tougher ask. But I doubt there are industries that need lots of employees for which 0 training courses exist.

Most ITOs are pre employment type courses, and really don't provide much in the way of usable skills. The new entrant still has to be trained effectively from scratch.

So you differentiate yourself by delivering a product that always matches the specification, that's always done on time when you say it will be, and you sort any and all problems that might arise in a timely manner and are always pleasant to deal with. Doesn't hurt to tell your customers about your vision for your company and your willingness to train up the new generation of workers while you're at it.
A little heads up for you.. in Heavy Industry if you don't do the former you'll get hit with delay fee's or rework demands and then no more contracts. As to the second point you make - the Client Contract Manager/Purchasing Officer doesn't give a rats @rse about what your company vision is.. they want speed, efficiency and lowest cost. That's how it is in Manufacturing/Construction land

Regardless of what you say, you can't compare a Consulting Engineering, Architectural or other professional type company with one that actually constructs or manufactures.. i/e white collar vs blue. They are in different worlds. Sorry Lanthanide but that's just how it is

So basically minimum wage?

@Hook, most seasonal jobs like pruning are paid on a contract basis- where you have the potential to earn a lot of money if you're good at it. Then the pay is scaled based on how efficient your team is. So if you're a first time pruner in a team of experienced workers you're no hope of earning $25-35 p/h. Might get lucky to hit minimum wage if you're kiwi and giving it a go for the first time. Then its freezing. You can't work when it rains (usually). There can be significant transport costs getting out to the vineyards- in come cases they're an hour away from somewhere like Hastings/Blenheim.
Then the work runs out so you're screwed until bud rubbing / wire lifting / plucking comes along there's a gap of at least a month after pruning. Vineyard owners don't pay to hang about for nothing so it's a pretty average line of work unless you can find bits in the same area to fill in the gaps. I suspect our mate in the clip you watched didn't bring up these factors in his little clip- didn't fit his narrative.

It wasn't a mate,, it was a reporter. Seasonal jobs are called that for an obvious reason. Bottom line is employers have bills to pay and debt to service. They are not charitable organisations whose sole purpose is to provide employment at some arbitrarily fixed "living wage". If NZrs don't want to work - and many don't, because they might get wet or cold or have to get themselves to the job site, or pass a drug test when the get there, there are plenty of others overseas who are more than willing to fill the gaps.

@ Hook. Using foreign workers to keep New Zealand as a low wage nation is an exploitative technique.
Plenty of evidence has been provided to you here about the RSE manipulations - but you argue black is blue.
Today you are doing the same with Andrew.
Give it up.

If you don't like what I say then show me the evidence that supports your argument. Mine is there are a large segment of the community who are either too lazy or too closeted and precious to get off their @rse and get a job.. that's why we have an RSE scheme. Yes there have been some individual failings but the majority of them work well and funnel much needed funds back to the communities that need it. The MSM loves a good exploitative headline but they rarely report on benefits received back in the islands. As for Andrew, he started with a very foolish and ill considered post which as a farmer he well knows to be false..

LOL. Showed you evidence before Hook. You couldn't address it.
Time to give up the RSE sleazy promotion Hook.

Time for you to come up with some alternatives instead of carping like a beached seal. what's your alternative? Pay people 2x minimum and double the price of food?? Yeah that's a great idea. Offer free transport to work?? even better if the Govt pays for it. When you get your head around what actually drives this country, feeds you, and pays for your privileged virtue signalling, give me a shout. I admit there have been slip ups but that is not the majority scene

Better late than never I guess, + the nearly 6mil in isolation fees won't be lost on Dr Woods either. This does need to happen now. There are many businesses requiring skilled labour that is offshore based.

This is something they could be doing right now if they wanted to, but it's become a campaign announcement.

True GV, it's all about the election. We have such cynical and self serving politicians now it makes me want to do a Guy Fawkes on the lot of them. They are all the same - only looking to extend their time at the taxpayer funded trough for as long as possible, by what ever means it takes. Absolutely disgraceful

Can't speak for the GCSB, but those sort of comments tend to see webmasters cop a phone call from the Secret Service when they're on an American website - maybe spare a thought for the site admins. While I share your desire to see Parliament exploded into pieces or tipped in the Harbour, that's more a result of my opinion of its visual offensiveness, as opposed to whoever happens to be inside or what it represents.

Well the comment is obviously a personal though rather provocative one..I'm sure the site admin will see it as such. They may even agree with underlying theme that this current bunch are the most self serving, cynical, manipulative and downright condescending collection to be visited upon the electorate in a long while... imo

Looks like Jacinda nows sees that John Key always had the right idea all along. We need to bring more people in. I might just vote for Labour this time around because they are doing everything right.

If she can manage and deliver. Their history is non delivery, it is their biggest hurdle and the underlying reason for a lack of business faith.
Everyday another idea, when what they really need to do is keep with a couple or three plans and manage them effectively.

10
up

We don't need extra people. We need to get the ones sitting on their arses into work.

Pre-COVID the unemployment rate was the lowest in a decade, and labour participation rate was also very high.

The under-employment rate was 13% (one person in eight was looking for work). Employment can mean 1hr per week.

Sounds good . How do you propose we do that ?

10
up

Critical workers being cafe managers, baristas, taxi drivers...

That was National's definition.

Didn't notice Lees-Galloway alter it. Mind you in fairness to Labour he couldn't alter the temperature of a pot of water.

Well Labour (which I presume means ILG) did:
https://www.immigration.govt.nz/about-us/media-centre/news-notifications...

As a migrant, the minimum salary you need to apply for a Talent (Accredited Employer) Work Visa will increase from NZD $55,000 to $79,560 a year.

The new salary applies to all Talent (Accredited Employer) Work Visa applications we receive from 7 October, regardless of when the employer became accredited.

The salary threshold was last updated in 2008. The new threshold is 150% of the current New Zealand median salary and will be updated each year in line with the median income.

9 years of Nothing from National.

Well thanks for the correction. I owe Mr Galloway an apology

Labour didn't say when it would implement its quota, but a spokesperson told interest.co.nz the aim was to put it in place "as soon as practical".

With no when. Its a nothing announcement.

Not wanting to upset Megan ,
She has taken a leaf out of State Labor New South Wales.
Governing by press release. Confusing a press release as policy.

In her favour she did take Hamish Walker's advice and not manage quarantine in Queenstown.

I may have made a mistake please fact check.

It seems Megan's comment to let in workers is conditional. Conditional on Labour winning the election.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/09/nz-election-2020-labour-...

New Zealand's COVID-19 border rules will be relaxed to allow more skilled workers into the country should Labour be re-elected, the Prime Minister has promised.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/08/jac...

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has called for politics to be taken out of the Government's COVID-19 response as Opposition leader Judith Collins grilled her on the lack of testing of border workers.

Question now is:
Who is the bigger idiot?

So the Labour govt is now a national Govt? Just what the eck do the Unions think of this nonsense I wonder?

If an enterprise won't give wages and conditions (especially conditions) good enough to attract New Zealanders, it needs to go out of business.

Spoken like a true closeted beltway govt admin employee with no skin in the game. NZ enterprises could pay $50/hr and they'd still struggle to get employees who also didn't want Latte machines, free transport to the job and a health and safety plan that prevented blisters and getting wet

Sleazy business this RSE promotion game Hook. Give it up, you ain't fooling anyone.
I live in horticulture central. I see the keen young kiwis come for the season. They make $35 an hour true - but for about two days in the whole summer.
Then it's compulsory days off, picking on rows already picked over etc etc
One crap technique that screws them is media publicity from employers about labour shortages, the kids turn up, but there is actually a labour surplus and then it's just a few days work here and there.
I see media releases that are plain lies.

Picking rows already picked over - some orchards 'colour pick' so you may pick over the same row more than once due to fruit ripening at different times.
This year will be interesting to see how many of the 4-5000 pickers needed in Central for the 6wk cherry harvest, will be kiwis.

Agreed Casual Observer. And it's work that's neccessary. But hard to earn anything like the big money portrayed.
As for Kiwis? An adapted student RSE type contract as below would help.
As for getting people into the area with false claims of work, who then find there little or no work, it's everybody. This year I encountered a bunch of fine young people from the Czech Republic conned like that. The year before French. And lots of Kiwis over the years.

20 years ago orchards were full of university students, the student loan scheme meant they could go surfing instead.

The crop last year was hit hard on many orchards by rain and wind. Some orchards lost up to 50% of their crop. If the crop isn't there, there's nothing to pick. Fruit and veg went up 19% in the last food price report recently out. How much do you want to pay for your fruit and veg if growers have the added cost of paying staff to do nothing? If the govt was serious about uni students picking they would do the same as Australia. A reduction in student loan balances in return for picking hort crops.

yes, that would be a great idea.

Here's a plan Hook - but you won't accept it. Set up a RSE type contract for students. Say 6 weeks or 8, 10. Fixed term. 40 hours minimum. Paid anyway. Those are just reasonable conditions - not latte machines like you claim.
The hourly rate? Whatever you have to pay to get your number.
You don't want to pay - or provide certainty.
You should get out of the business.

Let us say you got your wish and your harping drove Hook out of the business .
Could you explain how it would benefit - anyone ?

paashaas KH is like many commentators.. full of vitriol and disdain for people who actually work for a living, pay taxes and employ people who want to work but very light on workable solutions and actual experience of the situation of business owners. He seems to think employers are some sort of charity set up to provide overpaid employment and has his/her own fixed ideas about the world. He forgets who produces the food he eats and begrudges those producers any sort of reward for the risks they take.

I see you've decided to start consuming weed already KH, you'd have to be on some sort of mind altering substance if you thought that was even remotely workable. Unless of course you want to pay 3x the cost of fresh produce? Then I'm all for it

Days to the General Election: 21
See Party Policies here. Party Lists here.