Labour starts work on policy comparisons

Labour Party puts front bench to work on policy comparisons; Ardern and Davis to lead on talks with Winston Peters; Separate talks to be held with the Greens

26th Sep 17, 4:31pm by Alex Tarrant

Labour Party leader Jacinda Ardern has given her front bench 48 hours to compare the policy platforms of Labour, New Zealand First and the Green Party in preparation for negotiations for the three parties to form a government.

The three parties returned 61 seats between them at Saturday's election - exactly the number required to command a majority in Parliament. Special votes expected on 7 October, accounting for 15% of the vote, are expected to favour Labour and the Greens, indicating that number could rise by one or two seats at the expense of National.

It is thought that intense negotiations won't begin until those votes are in, although National Party leader Bill English said this morning that he would be reaching out to Peters in the next few days to kick off talks. Labour is likely to do the same.

Ardern maintained that Labour would stick to its Budget Responsibility Rules when running the ruler over policy costings. She said it had been indicated to her that Treasury resources will be made available to help on the costings front. You can see all her comments in the video above.

Labour's deputy leader, Kelvin Davis, said he had not had any contact with Peters - the two know each other well. Davis said he had reached out to a couple of NZ First members to congratulate them - this included Shane Jones, who Davis said he hadn't heard back from.

Meanwhile, the Green Party also released its negotiating team. You can read its release below:

The Green Party is today announcing the team that will lead its negotiations to form the next government.

The team consists of:
-Co-leader James Shaw
-Musterer and MP Eugenie Sage
-Acting Chief of Staff Tory Whanau
-Party Co-Convenor Debs Martin
-Party Campaign Committee member Andrew Campbell

“Our team has the experience and expertise to represent the interests of the Green Party, its members and its supporters in the negotiations to come,” said Mr Shaw.

“While formal negotiations have yet to start, I think it’s important to be transparent about who’s being entrusted to lead our team when they do.

“The negotiation team is supported by a reference group with broad expertise, including Jeanette Fitzsimons and other senior figures in the Green Party.

“I want to assure Green Party members and the public that we go into these negotiations in good faith and with the best interests of all New Zealanders at heart.

“Forming a stable, progressive government and advancing the Green Party’s priorities of real climate action, cleaning up our rivers and ending poverty are all top of mind.

“We also know that New Zealanders want these negotiations to be undertaken professionally and promptly; the Green Party will honour that,” said Mr Shaw.

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64 Comments

by delboy | 26th Sep 17, 5:37pm 1506400669

For the Labour and Green voters she needs to go through the motions even though she knows it's for naught.

This country is in the best shape for decades and now 100 companies have written an open letter saying tertiary qualifications are not required such is the labour shortage. So why ruin this by implementing 1970's style unionism.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1709/S00810/tertiary-education-not-req…

It's a great time to be a New Zealander.

by Ocelot | 26th Sep 17, 5:18pm 1506399484

Entry level position, Masters Degree with 5 years experience required. You try getting a non-minimum wage job without tertiary education in this labour market. They'll laugh you out of the interview if you even get replied to.

Employers have been screaming about a skills shortage for years to justify ramping up immigration of the workforce. They say whatever gets them the result they want. It's time for the labourforce to get some policies swung its way.

by Eco Bird | 26th Sep 17, 5:26pm 1506400016

If you are an immigrant, then you have to start the ladder from the bottom - employers need local skills, knowledge, and attitude ... not high education and ego ... that has always been the way ... ( unless you are a genius which they need like no other, or some one in private sector kind enough to give you a go !)

by Podcast | 27th Sep 17, 7:31am 1506450716

If you are an immigrant, then you have to start the ladder from the bottom - what a load of bollocks! Already done that and got a proven track record working in an industry far more competitive/professional than the one here in NZ. Can out perform local talent, have broader knowledge and a better attitude than most Kiwis, so went straight into management role. Wouldn't waste my time/money coming here if I had to start at the bottom again.

by Casual Observer | 26th Sep 17, 7:20pm 1506406806

Plenty of people have started at the most junior position of employment and risen to management. Often these folks are offered the opportunity to study while working. I personally know of a law receptionist who became a legal executive and then firm offered to pay for her law degree studies once she had had her 3 kids & offered her partnership. They saw her as a valuable asset to the company. They have since done the same thing with another young woman who started as a legal assistant and is now also a partner.

Similar situation with young farmers starting as juniors and now running multi million dollar businesses - either their own or someone elses.

Truck drivers can become logistics managers etc. Some employment opportunities require tertiary qualifications but others can be gained on the job.

by Wildcard | 26th Sep 17, 9:50pm 1506415854

Those job vacancies are a farce. "No degree required" yet they want 2 to 5 years of experience. Notice they also leave out the salary instead of stating how much they'll pay you. And look at the businesses: The Warehouse, Warehouse Stationary, Countdown... Hardly six figure salary territory unless you're a CEO, CFO or general manager with them.

“Businesses across New Zealand are struggling to find talented employees that can bring enthusiasm, natural talent, passion and potential to their companies as qualifications do not always reflect the true capability of applicants,” Valintine says.

That's crap. Businesses don't want to pay a decent salary and hide behind the tissue paper thin charade of "we don't have enough workers to choose from." Pay $75k a year like Australia and see how many people apply.

by Stev-O | 26th Sep 17, 10:37pm 1506418663

You can’t just give people payrises without productivity increases. See what’s happening with the rest home cutting down staff after the equal pay settlement. Same thing happened in the US. What people don’t seem think about is the socialistic policies brings the productivity down making everyone poorer as it decreases the incentive to better one’s self. Like exactly what you said, you won’t bother finding work unless the companies are willing to pay near six figures. Australia is able to pay that because the productivity is much higher and each person brings in many multiples of what they are paid.

by swapacrate | 27th Sep 17, 12:50am 1506426626

Im not sure I understand that. I am thick.

But what we need is industry that can support higher wages, industries that dont rely on thin margins, and industries that dont rely on making money from NZers.

We want industries that are truely global that can use a highly intelligent workforce, we need government providing mentors, and ecosystem that creates these types of businesses.

Lets build more companies like Xero or look at biotechnology, lets copy accelerators llike Y-Combinator, dont have cheap knockoffs like theicehouse where they make you pay a fortune and take a percentage of your company for doing nothing.

Lets think smarter, and use technology, thats what a country on the arse end of the world needs to do. Not grow our GDP by bringing in low skilled workers.

by Joe Public | 27th Sep 17, 5:14am 1506442477

Smartest comment on here.

NZ needs to look forward not to the past.

Focus on Fintech and Blockchain technology where our vast distance will not handicap us. Look at countries like Estonia and Slovenia, two small countries that are leading the charge in these areas while we are asleep at the wheel and depend on Low Skilled Immigrants and Kiwifruit/COWS to keep our GDP growing.

Old man mentality wont help us in the future.

by Henry_Tull | 27th Sep 17, 6:32am 1506447170

Yep.
Look at construction & civil works. Not their PR.
Productivities are shot, driving a 4wd dual cab does not make u king of the castle!
Insiders bemoan some of the biggest are 25yrs behind. Another tell is the guys have real problems job costing.
Then there is the Fletchers story. :(

by Eco Bird | 26th Sep 17, 5:21pm 1506399672

Re open letter : this is Great News and it takes a lot of burden off the shoulders of job seekers and young NZers, it is really fantastic that 100 businesses recognize this and will be great step forward ... it also proves that business is an essential leader in pushing the country forward without extensive political ideology, policies, bribing, or blackmail ... and that is how free markets work at best.

by flebus | 26th Sep 17, 6:57pm 1506405473

Ah yes, the problem with immigration standards is they've been too strict! Let's lower the bar so 'breathing' or 'metabolism' qualifies as a skill. How many points do I get for 'can hear'?

This will certainly be great news for aspiring assistant 'chefs', assistant tour guides, and assistant south Auckland car washers throughout the third world.

by PocketAces | 26th Sep 17, 7:06pm 1506405972

Breathing? Metabolism? Have you not heard of defibrillators?

by swapacrate | 26th Sep 17, 8:56pm 1506412572

Unless your homeless, waiting in the que for hospital, stuck in traffic in Auckland, FHB, have 1 million dollar mortgage on average income with 50% a salary paying mortgage, live in a garage, looking for a job versus the tide of immigrants, on a low wage.

Yeah life is sweet.

by Wildcard | 26th Sep 17, 9:38pm 1506415107

That's a joke. NZ businesses are piss poor at recruiting grads and entry level employees, because they don't want to spend the time and effort to train them. They just employ immigrants with 5+ years experience and pay them chump change. Hell, I'm applying for entry level jobs in my field that pay $17 an hour that get 80 to 90 applications from immigrants with Masters degrees and 5 to 10 years of experience.

by Penguin | 26th Sep 17, 4:59pm 1506398362

It's going to be a mess whatever happens with lots of bickering all round. At the end of the day I see few changes being implemented regardless of who is in charge.

by Merrydaze | 26th Sep 17, 6:23pm 1506403381

NZF has a lot more common ground in relation to policies with labour than they do with National as listed on their website www.nzfirst.org.nz. NZ voted 46% centre right and 54% centre left so the mandate is there for labour/nzf/greens to form a coalition government. Jacinda is young and comparatively inexperienced compared to some, Winston is very experienced and with his long service in parliament could be a very good mentor for her for the next three years.

by Stev-O | 26th Sep 17, 9:59pm 1506416380

I really don't know what you and a lot of other left wing voters are thinking. Winston isn't a father figure for Jacinda. The fact that you think she is inexperienced to need a mentor tells me you don't even think she is fit to be a PM in the first place. Being a PM isn't a joke, Winston isn't in it to play house, he has never even been a PM before so I don't see any relevance. Also the greens aren't center left, they are more far left and only received 5.8% of the votes. I don't know where you got 54% from but the so-called center left as you say (Labour/NZF) is only 43.3%, still less than National so there is no mandate.

by Merrydaze | 27th Sep 17, 7:17am 1506449869

I actually voted National, just adding some objective thought to the discussion. Looking at things from other peoples perspective is a valuable exercise. 46% National, 54% change, dress it up and label parties however you like, its a fairly equal mandate for status quo or change so no obligation on any party to feel obligated to go either way. That's MMP its not first past the post.

by ngakonui gold | 26th Sep 17, 6:34pm 1506404088

48 hrs to compare policies.
Obviously they did better than they thought they would do,because a well run organisation surely would have had a WHAT IF scenario ready to implement.
Then again i don't think Labour knew what their own policies were.

by Macawsley | 26th Sep 17, 7:01pm 1506405678

Geez some of National's deluded lickspittles are getting very bitter over the prospect of democracy delivering us a center left government.

by Grant A | 26th Sep 17, 7:23pm 1506407023

Well they shouldn't be Macawsley, I've always believed that we get the Govt we deserve, and we're about to find out just what we deserve (in WP's opinion anyway :-)

by Penguin | 26th Sep 17, 7:01pm 1506405693

Winston is old school. I can't believe he would like a bird half his age being his boss! :)

by Eco Bird | 26th Sep 17, 7:14pm 1506406493

yes, I think you have a very good point there

by Smalltown | 26th Sep 17, 8:28pm 1506410898

Couple of sexist, ageist kiwi birds there.

by kiwichas | 26th Sep 17, 10:01pm 1506416494

You mean Chloe + Jacinda??

by Wildcard | 26th Sep 17, 10:11pm 1506417099

Nah, Paula Benefits and Crushed Collins :)

by CJ099 | 26th Sep 17, 7:38pm 1506407897

Well at least she would be respectful and listen to him which is far better than being completely ignored by National since all of Winston's views the opposite of National's policies.
I can't see Bill giving in on immigration and stopping foreign buyers can you?

by keywest | 26th Sep 17, 7:53pm 1506408832

Winston as PM in the minority coalition...could happen.

by Penguin | 26th Sep 17, 8:38pm 1506411490

I think Bill will concede on foreign buyers by introducing a 15% stamp duty. It has been done in Singapore, HK and Vancouver. The antidotal evidence is it only acts as a speed hump. In Vancouver it was introduced just over a year ago and prices are still up 9% since then.

by Eco Bird | 26th Sep 17, 8:59pm 1506412759

True, the buyers will not dry out ...the housing market will stabilize and I think will pick up again soon ...With low interest rates through 2018, this summer will be a good indication of the coming year ,
I think the Good news is that the shadow of CGT/ Land tax is now pushed away ( for at least 3 years) so is the horrible thought of Labour's TWG which WP dislikes ... Foreign money is already parked in NZ waiting for the dust to settle , Local money and business confidence will also come back again once we know which horse has won the race.

by PocketAces | 26th Sep 17, 9:29pm 1506414569

So, translated, you cannot wait for the moment that houses become more and more unaffordable for kiwis.

by accountingsoft… | 26th Sep 17, 9:33pm 1506414814

hillarious

by Paradoxx | 26th Sep 17, 9:55pm 1506416151

15% stamp won't work. I was told by someone in China that houses in NZ/Aus are 25% of the Cost of an apartment in pollution ridden Bejing. This individual had already purchased a property in Melbourne and was looking at NZ next. Plus it gets their capital out of China. Most of these folks desire to leave eventually and property in NZ/Aus is a foothold.

by CJ099 | 26th Sep 17, 10:02pm 1506416521

Well at least it collects some revenue from them rather than letting them asset strip tax free!

by Joe Public | 27th Sep 17, 5:19am 1506442742

Exactly

Cant see why people say it cant work... like they will have to pay it....

The only reason why someone may say it cant work is they probably think it would. Otherwise why on earth would they oppose something that they wouldn't be paying?

by O4 normal | 26th Sep 17, 11:13pm 1506420825

A appartments in Bejing is around $4million nz or ozzy dollars?

by Paradoxx | 26th Sep 17, 11:32pm 1506421946

He was talking in US dollar equivalents of an apartment in Beijing being $2MM and purchasing an apartment in Melbourne

by Solidname | 27th Sep 17, 7:32am 1506450767

I think that's a good idea, although I would raise it to 50-100% for existing buildings, make it so they can do it if they really want to, but it's going to be taxed to the hilt and that money goes into building more houses.

by pankers | 26th Sep 17, 7:46pm 1506408362

It does not matter what National gives Winston , he will go with Labour as he hates Paula Bennet, Stephen Joyce ,I believe that Wintson should be in rest home watching revenge of the nerds , he never keeps to his word and never answers a question directly .
Once again Winston is playing his games.

by SmoKey | 26th Sep 17, 8:49pm 1506412199

The question is : Has Winston Had Enough ?
(NZ's immediate future may depend on that).

by Eco Bird | 26th Sep 17, 8:46pm 1506411993

I think it is wise to stop speculating and rolling the dice since WP is highly unpredictable ... This is his last stand on the political theatre and he is going to make us all amused while waiting for his first line ... he likes attention, and got plenty of it ATM .... what is true though, WP is no fool, he will exploit each side and strip them down to the wire ( and who can blame him for that ??) .... in fact no one knows what the parties are prepared to offer and/or modify in order to hold on to power ( aftermath excuses will be ready in less than few hours!) -
Politics in this occasion becomes Horse Trading and promises evaporate very quickly - Maybe the Aim justifies the Means ! especially if you have been hung to dry on the opposition benches for so long ...
Another 10 days or so

by pankers | 26th Sep 17, 8:46pm 1506412005

Winston has now come out fighting against Paddy Gour at News hub, still reckon Winston is playing games
See below copied of NZ First Site
Whatever Patrick Gower and the Newshub producers are on, they should get off it.

Their TV news broadcasts about New Zealand First the last two nights have been fiction, and grossly misleading. I will not be explaining what parts are fictional. Some of it is barefaced lies.

Newshub is claiming sources that don’t exist, and is merely toying with viewers and presenting make believe instead of facts. It’s the very worst form of journalism and Newshub is not the only one doing it – sad to say.
None of it will have any bearing on New Zealand First in the coming talks around the establishment of the next government.

by Penguin | 26th Sep 17, 9:13pm 1506413628

The media have certainly wound Winston up!

by swapacrate | 26th Sep 17, 8:54pm 1506412463

Kelvin Davis, Winston and Shane Jones just need to go for a fish, take some beers get a feed and all will be sweet.

by Randomman | 26th Sep 17, 9:48pm 1506415684

yep, you can choose Winnie, the Hangi or the Tangi !

by Ex Expat | 27th Sep 17, 1:40am 1506429653

Then a year later we have the unveiling. The best bit. Go Labour/Green/NZF.

by solardb | 26th Sep 17, 9:10pm 1506413426

every nz first voter i ask cites immigration as the reason they voted for them. to back down on immigration would be the end of nz first. i cannot see national and nz first reconciling over immigration.

by Merrydaze | 26th Sep 17, 9:13pm 1506413637

Does anyone else find it amusing how the media constantly refer to NZF as the King or Queen maker. The Greens are, or were, in exactly the same position of power as NZF yet they demean and criticise NZF for being in that position. Granted the Greens are far less likely to go with National but not impossible. Who is to say the greens have to go with anyone. Greens and NZF should be getting the same amount of attention and coverage if the media really understand MMP.

by areyouserious | 26th Sep 17, 9:50pm 1506415808

Yeah the media really doesn't understand MMP, or rather it has a vested interest in promoting a qausi FPP campaign. After all there's no point shoving real estate advertisements down the necks of individuals lacking a $200,000 deposit in hand.

by MortgageBelt | 26th Sep 17, 9:51pm 1506415895

Shaw embraced Labour & NZF in his victory speech on election night. So he obviously is happy to work with WP.

by O4 normal | 27th Sep 17, 7:07am 1506449254

Merrydaze. Why does anyone talk about anything on here. I guess there isn’t much to talk about the greens because labour and greens are so close. Maybe we should think of that as a good thing. So want does that say about peters. How can a party like his jump so far from left to right. Is it his party or the party’s he’s changing giving us so much to talk about. You would think most who voted for peters was because he’s more to the left so there shouldn’t be anymore attention then the greens. Doesn’t really say much for peters does it. If I was voting either labour greens or nz first I would of thought I was voting together with a group of lefty’s (knowing there policy’s)on a hole. BUT O NO WE’RE TALKING ABOUT PETER AND CHANGING TWO PARTYS FOR WHAT THEY STAND FOR . National and nz first . Yes why isn’t everyone talking about the greens getting the best deal. WE KNOW WHY . They know who they are. Does peters

by Paradoxx | 26th Sep 17, 11:28pm 1506421692

Some have mentioned it but the real question is did the NZ first voters want change? If they did then a Greens/Labor coalition makes the most sense. If NZ first voters want more of the same but with some say in how National run things then that's a center right government. I would be curious for actual NZ First voters to put their thoughts up on who they think Winnie should side with.

by swapacrate | 27th Sep 17, 12:55am 1506426926

I voted WP. I would take both sides if immigration was tackled and so were foreign buyers. I think this is the crux of our problems.

Things like Traffic, hospital ques, homelessness, house prices etc. Stem from these two things.

Labour though recently as BE called NZers druggies, and Joyce and BE are outright liars. Get rid of those two and maybe I could stomach National.

by Grant A | 27th Sep 17, 1:39am 1506429547

Paradox - there's a lot of lies being stated about that including from the "never tell a lie Jacinta". The cold hard facts are National and its existing coalition members got 47.6% of the vote, Labour and the Greens (the only two parties demanding a change of Govt) got 41.7. NZF got 7.5% but the Newshub-Reid Research poll of NZF voters taken just before the election showed 45% wanted a National/NZF coalition - Swapacrate above looks to be one of those where he was voting on policies, and not necessarily a change of Govt. So add 3.4% of the NZF vote to the status quo National go to 50.9.

That will change slightly with the specials but anyone including Jacinta claiming the majority voted for change is telling an untruth, also know as perpetuating a lie to the uninformed who can't add.

by swapacrate | 27th Sep 17, 2:01am 1506430919

I am torn between National and Labour.

I have leanings from my background on helping people out. So I lean towards labour at the moment after what National has done to NZ. I think we need some intervention.

But I have business leanings and dont trust any Govt to do whats best with Tax. So taking more tax is against my current leanings.

What I want from government is more help for businesses that includes tax reduction, loans, and taking equity stakes, providing mentorships and ecosystem. I thought National would do this, but they do hardly anything. They funnel a lot of money into property with subsidies etc, and really do nothing for other type of businesses.

So at this moment in time, my left leanings are outweighing my right. If some of the issues that are happening in NZ are fixed, my right leanings would take over.

by two otherguys | 27th Sep 17, 8:43am 1506454991

You want an irrigation scheme ?
Try applying for one - plenty on offer
No worries

by two otherguys | 27th Sep 17, 8:44am 1506455074

Grant A - so while labelling Jacinda with the "never tell a lie" tag, you silently condone the deliberate lies of Bill and his squad who lied there way to those percentages - you must be one of their believers

Liar Bill lost me in the first debate when he claimed he had solved the clean rivers problem by changing the e-coli pollution theshhold from 260 ppm to 540 ppm - hey presto

by Grant A | 27th Sep 17, 11:22am 1506464575

Two other guys- I wasn't talking about Bill as he has had a multitude of left bloggers,and Jacinta herself, claiming him as a liar, whilst being squeaky white themselves. I was merely pointing out thats heres one undeniable example that political lies seemed to be not one-sided, in an example that is pure maths. There was no vote for change mathematically pure and simple yet the left are claiming it as fact.

by flebus | 27th Sep 17, 7:17am 1506449834

I voted NZ First. If I wanted more of the same I would have voted National. WP was the most likely way to put the brakes on National's excesses. As for who he should side with, I don't think National will make any meaningful concessions on rampant immigration (the only way that know how to inflate GDP) so they're not my preferred option.

by Grant A | 27th Sep 17, 11:27am 1506464821

But Flebus, you clearly weren't desperate for a change of Govt otherwise you wouldn't have risked voting for a party that had not indicated that they wanted that themselves. It would seem that you voted for a party who's policies you liked and were prepared to accept a Nat/NZF coalition if it incorporated some of those policies. Those desperate for change for changes sake, clearly had to vote Labour/Greens as that was their stated mission in life.

by Solidname | 27th Sep 17, 11:38am 1506465539

Let's have a look after the specials have come in, National lost all bar one of it's coalition partners and lost votes as well, so there was a vote for change, maybe the extent of it has been overplayed. However, Labour up almost 11% from their previous showing, many of those will have come from Green admittedly, some from Maori (apparently they only lost 8,000 or so party votes this election). Act party vote was swallowed by National. NZF I'd imagine some of their vote went back to National as well, particularly those that were sitting on the fence.

by flebus | 27th Sep 17, 2:49pm 1506476946

I'm not sure what that rhetorical flourish was about. I certainly do want change on immigration policy and Peters is much more forceful about that than Labour, and Greens (though I am sympathetic to some of their positions re: the environment) just equivocate lest they offend anyone. TOP is head and shoulders above any other party on policy as far as I am concerned, but I didn't expect them to break 5% on the first go around so WP was a hedge. I would just as soon vote for ACT as National, which is to say I would not.

by wally | 27th Sep 17, 12:37am 1506425843

It seems they they want change in South Auckland Rally video
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=1…

At the moment it seems the media is just realising that a new coalition government is actually the likely outcome. National must seriously be regretting trying to stamp WP out.
I think the left can expect a boost from special votes. The new government wont be perfect but for me i think it will represent a wider cross section of our society and be fairer and more focused on NZ and all NZers. Thanks Winston and MMP