Migration added 54,623 people to this country's population in year to September

Migration added 54,623 people to this country's population in year to September

There was a net gain of 54,623 migrants in the 12 months to September, up 10.3% on the 12 months to September last year, according to the latest provisional estimates from Statistics NZ.

Long term migrant arrivals and departures both increased during that period but arrivals grew at a faster rate, pushing up the net gain.

There were 149,968 migrant arrivals (+5.8%) and 95,345 migrant departures (+3.5%), giving the net gain of 54,623 (+10.3%).

Statistics NZ said this country's net migration rate was about 11.4 per 1000 people in the year to June, which was a similar rate to Australia's in 2017-2018, but more than triple the recent immigration rates in the UK and US.

There was a net a net loss 13,177 New Zealand citizens in the year to September and a net gain 67,800 citizens of other countries.

There has been a big change in where migratnts are coming from, with South Africa becoming the biggest source of net migration, with a net gain of 10,024 South African citizens in the year to September, up from 5973 in the previous 12 months.

That put South Africa ahead of China with a net gain of 9331 in the year to September plus another 649 from Hong Kong, India 8169 and the Philippines 7207.

Of the 149,968 long term arrivals in the year to September, 44,160 were New Zealand and Australian citizens (who do not require visas), 33,295 were on work visas, 31,361 were on visitor visas, 27,242 were on student visas and 12,822 were on residence visas.

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32
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....there goes any progress on housing, road congestion, hospital overload, infrastructure burden and so on.

13
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you imply by that there would have been any progress ?
Hard to improve when you fail at Kiwibuild and cancel all infrastructure work

28
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...nope the point (a rather obvious one) missed. We build 5,000 houses with 60,000 immigrants arriving. Progress negative. Build 1,000 houses with no immigration, progress positive. But banksters, land bankers and landlords unhappy....we can't have that now can we?

My point is that we don't have political competence to build 1,000 houses and to build houses that no one wants at a cost of $270M is the highest incompetence.

At least we have the important stuff, zero carbon and freshwater, failbuild was Nationals job and they have let us all down.

22
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The debate is bigger than just houses and roads. Watercare Auckland has to pump water in from the Waikato river to support the AK population. This basically means that the population of Auckland is already beyond what the resources of the region can support, and doesn't consider their sewage either. What other region has a surplus of water to support a burgeoning population? The debate should be how many people can this country support, not how many we should import to keep the economy going.

For comparison, the UK has a smaller land area than NZ and a population of about 67 million, so it's not the resources that are missing in NZ, it's the political nous to get things done

18
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...geeez..the poms conquered the world to drag enough resources back to sustain their lifestyle. Coming to an end now if you care to have a little think.

Not really, most of the civilised world outside of Europe, owes its greatness to the British and it's still a world powerhouse.

Errr the UK can't support their population, they're already well beyond 'sustainable'.

Water supply is a non-issue excepting the competence of the local council to supply it economically - which is an infrastructure/local governance issue. Seawater can be desalinated for 20% of the cost of what Watercare charges Residential Aucklanders for supply.

Salt water can be desalinated and brought to a potable water standard, and distributed for 31c per 1000 Litres?

Lowest figure I see on this page (https://www.advisian.com/en/global-perspectives/the-cost-of-desalination) is US$0.60 per 1000L

Aucklander's pay $3.7/m³, the council fiddles it by calling the majority of it a charge for wastewater - but $3.70 is the marginal cost for each additional cubic meter you use. And yes, desalinated water can be made for about 20% of that. Water costs have reached the point where a couple of big tanks and rainwater collection is now a cheaper option for many Aucklanders. Local government failing at basics as usual.

So desalinated water can't be made for 31c per 1000L. as I thought.

And yes, sewerage plants and sewer pipes are expensive.. not surprising when any work other than a complete clean new install involves dealing with human waste.

Can't we just recycle the sewerage, it is far better than the filthy water that comes from farming.

Yeah, Watercare seems like the one area of the council that is actually pretty good - so long as it is allowed to be in terms of receiving adequate funding for infrastructure. I get the impression it's because they have primarily engineers in charge rather than only financiers and ratios.

Are you suggesting people desalinate their own water?

Because Watercare charges cover the distribution network as well as the sourcing, and desalination is typically far more expensive than freshwater sources.

Rick Strauss
Please don’t overload the writer with common sense
California ( which is a huge state ) pipes it’s water into Los Angeles from miles away too so I cannot see the reason to claim Auckland shouldn’t use its pipe to the Waikato river ?

...you missed the bit about how their aquifers are drying up..too much draw-down and huge problems looming.

28
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NZ taxpayers are foolishly footing the bill for the record high net migration while low-value investors profit from it.

The best way to make a buck out of this mess is to build/buy a motel and lease out all its rooms for emergency housing. A motel worth 1.7m QV has managed to extract around 6m from the public purse in the last year .

It looks like the government has left the price-setting to the motel owners; evident from the fact that the average cost to taxpayer per stay going up 20% in the last 12 months. Lots more to come!

11
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Thanks for the link Advisor, yes there is a problem. I own a Motel, it's 3 stars so we get a lot of requests from WINZ for "emergency accommodation" We are taking less and less people from WINZ because too many cause us trouble, getting drunk, having a whole lot of mates sneak in at night time, damaging property, stealing property (42"TV, microwave, heater, paintings, bedding etc…) and many just live like pigs. I know I'm not making any friends saying that but that is what we experience first hand. BTW we charge $808/week for a family of 4 in large unit.

If given the chance, would you buy another motel Yvil. We looking to build new motel in waikato

Hi HW, I would only buy a Motel FHGC, no way will I be someone else lessee but good luck to you and good on you for asking.

Yvil
808 a week is exorbitant
Here it’s by the month & 1200 will get 800sqft water & heat included ( of course the sky’s the limit after that $$$ but you can get affordable housing Something Auckland has lost )
NZ just can’t build economically even with all those forests ( mostly foreign owned I’m sure ! )
Since I’ve been here I could not count how many new apartment blocks & new housing subdivisions have been completed
There’s definite problem with how things are built in NZ both housing & commercial construction
It’s just too labour intensive
I see huge apartments go up using multiple cranes & few workers Even steel reinforced concrete construction goes up far more rapidly than in NZ
I don’t see any of the timber boxing you see in NZ multi storey construction It’s all aluminum & steel which can easily be taken down & reused
The thing is the codes are more stringent here There’s triple glazing as standard for a start
Maybe use some new migrant knowledge of construction techniques like bamboo scaffolding to speed things up

NL, what is "it’s by the month & 1200 will get 800sqft water & heat included" ?

I don't think you understand Motel vs rentals. in a Motel furniture is provided, power, WIFI, skyTV etc paid for, rooms serviced and beds changed, rubbish emptied

Surely it’s housing the government is seeking when it chooses to use your motel ?
You did make me remember the single thing I truly do not miss after leaving NZ years ago
The kiwi penchant for trying to appear smart lol
Good night kiwis it’s very late & I have 2 planes to catch tomorrow

"..the single thing I truly do not miss after leaving NZ years ago. The kiwi penchant for trying to appear smart lol
Good night kiwis it’s very late & I have 2 planes to catch tomorrow"
Kind sir, please do not go yet or we will miss your words of wisdom and sadly no-one else here possesses such knowledge. What ever shall we do?
Haha I was lying, IMO you are a pompous snob NL who loves to boast for your own self aggrandizement. Not to mention hypocrite, the very fault you pointed out in someone else you actually did. You must have had a long day.

Hey, don't blame us kiwis for that Swiss fella...

; )

I fear this will fuel house prices.......

TTP

Will the RBNZ add extra fuel? Orr loves to surprise (astound) the market

@TTP well it may fuel house prices , and will sure keep the construction sector going

You’ll get used to over crowding

NZ should stick to what it does best
Milk cows
Tourism
After massacre public relations ( best in the world & will never be forgotten)
Immigration is its weak point but it’s just as crazy in Australia so don’t feel bad
You are reaping the reward of having policies that meant NZers were not having enough children
Immigration is necessary but it’s not just necessary in NZ it’s necessary in many countries
Sadly NZ has no planning for it

Greens are working to shut down a lot of farming, and eventually will turn their eyes to tourism once they wake up to the fact that they are on average burning 500-1000L each getting to and from NZ - fuel consumption nearly equal to NZ's whole car fleet, not the 'Green' industry they like to pretend it is.

"You are reaping the reward of having policies that meant NZers were not having enough children"

It triggers me when people say kiwis aren't having enough children. The world needs less children not more. Perpetual population growth is unsustainable and unnecessary. We can achieve economic growth while maintaining (or decreasing) population through innovations such as job automation.

NZs doing OK
Nowhere's immune from hopeless governments
I’m a UK citizen & hoped they’d have rejected Brexit by now but no the circus rolls on
The people have no idea at least kiwis have a clue about their own country
Americans Canadians & the UK populations are mostly stupid
Believe me I know We just got news next door in Canada their state TV fired a 85yrold sports commentator merely because he said immigrants weren’t wearing poppies ! That’s Canada today No free speech unless you risk being fired !

Re: Brexit it might not be too late, not sure if you're aware but the UK is about to have a general election on 12 December. There are UK political parties that want to stop Brexit. BBC article: Brexit: Where do the parties stand? https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48027580
As a British citizen you may still be able to vote if you haven't been outside of the UK for more than 15 years. You need to register to vote online before 26 of November . Here you go: https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/voter/overseas-voters

@RASTUS there is no progress on roads or infrastructure ........... all Nationals roads of importance projects were banned by the new Government , the health budget has been shifted to spending on nutters instead of new facilities , and as you know KIWIBUILD has just been relegated to the dustbin on history

29
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Hmm, i am going to have to become a single issue voter. Just need to find a party that actually stands by their election promises first.

18
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There maybe a slogan idea in that for NZF .
'We will try not to go back on our promises this time.' Vote NZF 2020...

NZF, We'll try not to screw you this time....

Or 'This time we will be different and stick to our promise', you know a positive spin ?

Or: "Winston failed to curb immigration in 2003 and again in 2019, but 3rd times the charm! Vote Winston!"

21
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The lack of follow through by the political parties is going to lead to the nationalist anti immigration parties emerging - it is inevitable.
Jacinda can ring her hands ll she likes, but is directly to blame for the emergence of the likes of this lot -

"Vision New Zealand is committed to get a mandate from voters in 2020 and follow it through, achieving what NZ First bark about every election, before rolling on their back with their legs in the air like they have just been euthanised," Tamaki said.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/11/hannah-tamaki-s-vision-n...

Awful.
note - I am an advocate for a very significant reduction of immigration numbers. But that links back to infrastructure.
This is bigotry, plain and simple.

Agreed. I too would reduce immigration numbers - aiming to roughly match USA & UK (per capita). But I'd would even accept an increase if it had the approval of the public and was properly planned.
Failure to have a sensible political debate about a NZ population plan with its implications for infrastructure, training of medical and educational professionals and our immigration leaves a vacuum that encourages this kind of bigotry.

19
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Unfortunately, those who voted for the Labour party were led to believe that the party's promises to cut net migration by 20-30k and to quickly catch up on our infrastructure gap was based on proper planning.

What they've delivered so far is either thrown more red tape or cancelled key infrastructure projects, slowed down rate of permanent visa approvals and introduced minor tweaks in the temporary visa policy with very hardly an impact on numbers.

I think the cancelled infrastructure build is mostly to keep Greens happy - given what has been revealed of JAG's efforts to prevent the second mount vic tunnel being built with threatening letters to ex Mayor Lester. Labour and Winston First are just going along with their fringe zealotry and would probably be doing much more if the Greens would let them.

This palava of "less infrastructure" seems deliberately misleading.

Infrastructure build is ongoing.

While they canceled the East West Link that had no viable business case, a road for transport mates, there's also a massive infrastructural deficit that National allowed to build up that they are also working to address: https://www.interest.co.nz/news/93445/scale-new-zealand%E2%80%99s-infras...

Anything mention disintry church should be left out of the news so they get zero traction.

... forgotten all about Dysentry Church and Bishprick Brian ... funny how little support religious based parties garner in NZ ...

GBH : God before heathens !

So suppressing the voice of minorities.. its worked in the past...

The young still hold optimism governments will some day keep to their promises

no they dont

Buy NZ Cheese
Gets my vote
I must buy Welsh cheese here that costs twice the price for same quality I used to buy in NZ in 2015
I guess the prices will have gone up in Gods own since ?

Don't worry, UK food will get way cheaper once Brexit goes through and you are no longer forced to pay subsidies to French farmers and restrict import of non-EU farm goods. Beef/Steak will be back on the menu! (2-3x price in UK as it is in USA, NZ or Australia)

deleted

@andrewj good luck with that ................ this coalition of losers has broken every single promise , undertaking and failed to meet any target it undertook to meet

Well, I made a pointless effort to let Iain Lees-Galloway know my views with the last set of figures, and even though I only received the expected roboanswer, it made me feel like I was at least doing something! Perhaps I should have written my email using words of one syllable instead of making a more valid attempt to explain my point of view? Perhaps, this time...

iain.lees-galloway@parliament.govt.nz

I have done the same and got the same kind of answer.
Don't rate that guy, at all.

It didnt help by signing as Fritz

. . too many syllables in the word " Fritz " for the minister to cope with !

Hahaha laugh of the day HW

BW
Do as I did simply leave the country
NZ as it was will never be the same again
Don’t fight it
Learn Chinese

A closer look at the migration data shows some interesting trend changes.
Much of the increase in net migration over the past 12 months has been due to a jump in arrivals from South Africa, across all visa classes. Also, there is a recent uptick in number migrants from Aussie (non-citizens).
Don't know what to make of this yet, only time will tell.

I have spoken to several South African people who moved to NZ, they all said the same: things are getting very bad in their homeland, especially government corruption which destroys the middle class

My colleague went back over there earlier this year. Apartheid is back just mirrored. All the smart people are leaving the country, it'll turn to custard pretty quick when general maintenance of critical infrastructure (power stations etc) is deferred for too long as the only people left will have no understand of how to maintain anything.

South Africa under the current and forever government is a hell hole for white South Africans and that is why they are getting out!

Well the whites screwed the majority of the population until the end of apartheid.
That's pretty important context.

A few whites were in the wrong. Apartheid ended nearly 25 years ago. Why should whites who had nothing to do with apartheid continue to be punished? I was 8 years old when apartheid ended and hundreds of well educated South africans in my age group are leaving or have left. I in no way support apartheid but the majority of the population lived in better conditions than they do now. Do some research. The current government has done nothing but line their own pockets. They live lavish lives and the poor are still poor. Education and health care standards have dropped. Infrastructure is failing. They have planned blackouts because of lack of planning and failure to upgrade facilities. The national energy company makes a loss yet the managers all get huge bonuses. The crime is on another level. I'm pretty confident in saying that the current government is screwing the whole country. Just look at how zimbabwe has turned out. You cannot even comprehend the situation until you have lived there.

'A few whites'.
That's a hilarious downplaying of the systemic, society wide racist fascism that was apartheid.
Just like 'a few Germans' were in the wrong?

A few whites infers a sub-segment of a whole population of people. Generalising and referring to all whites as being responsible for Apartheid is equally hilarious. I am in no way down playing what happened but the reality is that there are millions of whites who were not involved or even born at the time that are bearing the brunt. Your ignorance is testament to that.

Basically the same as saying all Germans are Nazis

Wow, what incredible insight. Tell us more.

Sure.
The apartheid era was one of the most disgraceful episodes of humiliating racism in modern history.
It's quite understandable if the black population and it's current leaders might bear understandable grudges.
Some might say its karma.
The white, racist settlers of South Africa sowed the seeds for all of this mess.

Colonialism's tragedies are long lasting on various societies. Now the One Percenters are the Colonizing the world with the help of banks.

@Fritz Thats utter bollocks , a handful of white South Africans are in no way responsible for the mess in Africa , I worked in Africa for Standard Chartered PLC in numerous locations for 15 years , and Africa is a corrupt, shambolic, run down mess, a broken continent of lost opportunity , violence disease , hunger , brutality and everything we would never accept as a democracy .

Next you will be calling all Australians racist

Pure hate spewing from Fritz.
I cannot think of what is wrong inside your mind to actually want to see innocent people suffer.

Went to school with a couple of people who's parents had moved here when they were 4 or 5. One from Cape town, other one from Johannesburg.
Both said their relatives have 6 foot steel fences with spikes around their properties. Dont stop at red lights at night because of carjackers. Houses have panic rooms with loaded guns incase of home invasion. One even described how his uncle stopped a burglar at gunpoint in his house, only to find out later the guy was an off duty cop.

Well he was probably visiting

OK boomer

It is funny that we allow PR holders in Aussie to come here straight away without any question and get residency here. Right from day one, they are allowed to work anywhere in any line, etc. Seems like we have outsourced some of our Immigration duties to the Aussies ?
And the Aussies treat the Kiwis going from here like dirt...
What is this one sided special relationship about ?
Kiwi doesn't have backbone but the Roo has...

https://ibb.co/zV9rNhx But this time is different!

Never met a South African I didn't like.

Quite a few of them using NZ as a back door to Aust.. I met some of them from my work.

Won't be long before they are rushing back again. The climate change warnings re impact on Aus are playing out as the experts have predicted. Aussies will eventually be banging the door down as their water shortages/droughts/fires become more and more serious.

I still remembered the drought we had in the upper North Island. Driving back from Napier via Gisborne not one green bit insight.. so don't bang your door too quick!

yeah. Kiwis shouldn't get too cocky about the fires in Aus.
We have the odd drought, plus plenty of floods, earthquakes etc etc

This is true Chairman Moa ..... most I talk to at work here in Auckland, would love to be in Aussie - obviously didn't have enough "points" etc to get in. I have always said we give away our NZ passport too readily and easily - to rule out all these shenanigans, it should be law that a NZ passport can not be applied for until 10 consecutive years of residing in NZ have been done ..... then we would see who "really" wants to come here.
We are a small, silly and stupid country sometimes ......

You are barking up the wrong tree.
Expats with in-demand skills arriving in NZ and leaving 5-7 years thereafter for greener pastures are still net contributors to our economy. We can't blame them when so many of our enterprises demand skilled staff from overseas but invest very little in providing sustained career growth to them.
Also, those who are raised in our social system only to settle abroad when they reach working age leave us worse off.

Gee I was 55 years old when I left Auckland my home town
I do not need to tell you why I left
The Chinese made me an offer I could not refuse
Or rather I rejected their offers but ultimately they persuaded me
Best move I ever made A complete change of life
Never hear a single word about rugby or yacht racing & no speed cameras & no cops ticketing you for 4 kms over the speed limit on holiday weekends Gas is cheap & the freeways smooth
It’s simply wonderful but I do miss my Auckland west coast beach That is my only regret

Maybe it's time for you to leave Interest.co.NZ and follow a website focussing on your new country of residence, the one you love so much more than NZ ?

Am sick of these self-exports from New Zealand forever showing up. They say they couldn't be happier where they are now and yet they keep coming back to kiwi news. The australian correspondent is another who should disappear.

Same old broken record. No one here cares what you think. You hate NZ, we get it

Yeah, seems to be the 15 years common theme, getting NZ Citizenship. Go over the ditch, apply under skills migration scheme and then Australia citizenship. Returning to Capetown for business opportunities with the safety net of Australia/NZ Citizenship.

DD - I never met an immigrant I didnt like. They go out of their way to be liked mostly. But I dont think that is the issue here...

16
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I know of a few I don’t like. Golriz Gharaman and Julie Anne Genter probably top of that list.

ha ha. True.
Plenty of immigrants I don't like. And plenty of homegrown kiwis I don't like.
Being a @$% is not contingent on where you come from.

I meet immigrants every day; liked them all except for the couple of Indians who installed fibre internet - the junior one might be OK but the bossy Indian in charge would deservedly be assassinated by any Kiwi worker.

Yeah, the fibre is really testing the fibre of home owners. All because of the cheap imported labour. Soon the insurance companies will increase the premiums for houses with fibre installed by Chorus and its substandard sub contractors.

27
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This is insanity. It is the poor that get screwed over too by the mass immigration policy.

15
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True. Hyper-immigration is fine for me - retired, mortgage paid, one investment property, enjoy cheap fast food and coffee shops. However my childen are in the job market competing with exploited 3rd world immigrants. The ordinary working New Zealander needs a political party that stands up for all workers not just the middle class, the posh and beneficaries. Such a party would do well at elections - I can even think of a name for it: "Labour" sounds good.

Kiwi employers play by the rules, the exploited 3rd world immigrants you talk about are taken advantage of by their own.

Haha good one - tell that to the construction industry. I would know, the developer that built my house didn't have a single kiwi builder on the job

11
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So you're saying you had your house built using slave labour imported from the 3rd world.

10
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I didn't intend on it but yes. And i'm also saying your previous comment is wrong. NZ employers do exploit cheap overseas labour.

Yep, they certainly do, even if it is by legal means.

For some trades the NZ owned business has most of their opposition exploiting workers so what choice do they have? How many of the 77 sub-contracting companies installing internet fibre obeyed all our employment laws?

exploitation of migrant workers is a symptom of failed policy. No one said that it was wrong or right, just acknowledged that it occurs on a large scale

There have been quite a few ethnic restaurants employers prosecuted for paying virtually nothing and also a Buddhist temple employer. Kiwi employers the likes of The Warehouse pay living wage. That's what I've seen.

Any primary industry, especially beekeeping and dairy farming, has migrant exploitation of one form or another. I know of one who pays filipinos minimum wage as beekeepers then claims a fair chunk back by renting them a house at an above market price.

Not entirely, though I suspect in the majority yes. I've certainly seen some native-born business owners exploiting migrants.

welcome to paradise

22
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.. except ... by welcoming so many immigrants so quickly we have wrecked that paradise by over burdening already stretching services , schools , roads , and further boosted house prices...

In % terms this is the largest flood of new arrivals in 100 years ....

ah well life goes on

14
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Well, folks, it Is the Year of Delivery, after all.....the fact that it's Wrong Product, Wrong Quantity, Questionable Quality, and Badly Timed....pffft.....

Where is Winston Peter....may be will show up next year with rhetroic being election year.

If at a certain pt in time all the infrastructure was in place to accommodate the existing population and paid for by the same and then we go on a massive immigration increase like the last 20 years why do the previous population have to cough up for the required infrastructure to accommodate the newbies.

You know the schools, hospitals, roads, police etc.Those that benefit should be paying and frankly I cannot see how existing kiwis are except for those that want petrol station attendants, waiters and the like for peanuts.

And those of course that want the building gonzo to continue....

In Auckland court fighting for his millions, pun not intended.

This Government is such a conundrum.

... yes . . And the first three letters of that particular word are " c o n " ..... hmmmm !

13
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Conundrum indeed ........... fortunately for Kiwis , South African's money is worthless , they arrive here so poor they have to find jobs when they arrive and they DONT speculate in our housing stock .

For the most part the South Africans bring skills , find jobs and stay off welfare , pay tax , and behave themselves ............. unlike some others who bring money (FROM PLACES WHERE THERE IS EXCHANGE CONTROL, TO BOOT !!!!!) produce nothing, dont integrate and make money by trading in our housing stock or being landlords

The MBIE data explorer https://mbienz.shinyapps.io/migration_data_explorer/#
Approvals for permanent residency for month of October
Oct 2017 - 3,006
Oct 2018 - 3,258
Oct 2019 - 3,675

Up 12.8 percent YoY 2018/2019 and 8.3 percent the previous year

My immediate team contains no people who were born in NZ (2 Brazilians, 2 Indians and one Indonesian). We are all millennials. My boss is from South Africa, and our GM is an English. NZ is now an immigration economy, and it will rely on immigrants more as the population is getting old. I suppose the real problem is the lack of vision and long term plan. Major political parties are too scared to tell NZers the truth. They just want to keep the status quo by importing mediocre people to meet the immediate needs and kicking them out later. In between, we have the smaller parties stirring xenophobic and anti-immgration sentiment for their political gains. Ordinary people (both NZers and immigrants) suffer the most in the end.

15
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"They just want to keep the status quo by importing mediocre people to meet the immediate needs and kicking them out later."
Totally true, the calibre of the majority of immigrants is pretty poor - low skill set, average or no tertiary qualifications (or bogus degrees) and low net wealth...hardly what we need, nor can afford. Second to that the Govt actually doesn't kick them out later..they stay and then attempt to bring in their greater family who are of similar ilk. Sadly Jacinda and Iain L exist in a fairy dust reality and just don't get it.

May be Shane Jones should become the leader of NZ First and become the PM too ?

38
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Thumbs up if you think a population of 5 million is too much

Thumbs up if you think 5 million is about right

Thumbs up if you think we need to keep increasing the population past 5 million

33
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Thumbs up if you're fed up with the poor policies and broken promises of Labour / NZFirst / the Gnats ... and plan to vote for anyone else in 2020 ... to send those 3 a big message !

Thumbs up GBH on Labour and NZF. If national were in right now instead of the coalition of losers then you would find PM Bill would actually get the job done.

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I don't know why after nine years of not getting the job done you'd expect different from National given another three.

That said, Labour needs to pull finger on immigration and act on the will of the people or they and National both will be the driving force for the rise of populism in New Zealand. They have both been simply running it too high - twice the OECD average rate - and neither have had the permission or mandate from the local population to do so. Both major parties have been leaning on it as an economic crutch for faulty nominal economic measures (e.g. GDP instead of GDP per capita, while ignoring the downsides the likes of Michael Reddell have raised with excessive total volume).

Hi Rick ... National would get the job done because the thousands of state houses currently being finished, were facilitated by National. Dishonest Labour takes credit for something they didnt initiate.

11
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Picks one thing they've "facilitated"...in a discussion about massive immigration levels that National got underway. Not forgetting National also started then were forced to abandon / backtrack a sell-off of state housing exacerbating the issue in the first place.

Hit a nerve. Since state house building program is one of the few bright lights for the COL it's fairly MAJOR. The whole current workload was arranged/facilitated by National and they were the driving force that got it going. Not the bunch of no-hopers sitting in government taking a salary, arguing of who is to blame for kiwibuild and light rail balls ups. Why didnt Phil I will Resign Twyford do the right thing and resign.

100% agree.

Hit a nerve, did I?

Yes, National did have to backtrack on their sell-off of state housing and stop exacerbating the infrastructural deficit. To argue now they were a driving force behind increasing state housing misses the fact they were a driving force in creating the infrastructure deficit.

And yeah, they were absolutely the driving force in opening up unsustainable levels of immigration, which Labour need to address (because Simon has already signaled that National will only make worse again). Labour ignoring it will spur populism.

On the other note, Phil Twyford should definitely go. He should not be Jacinda's John-and-Judith "final, final, final, final, final, final warning"...

Nats started this mess, Labour are continuing this mess, whos going to clean up this mess. I am unsure but will not be voting for either of those two.

Agree. On immigration they both seem a bit dim.

Wot?
In 2017 comments by posters on this site were heavily pro Labour and coalition. Will some be feeling a little guilty about their 2017 vote? Nothing like the reality of a term in Government to change that.

Nope not guilty at all. I voted Labour because the Nats were garbage.
Labour have been largely garbage.
They are all garbage.

Is this another thinly veiled "butt-hurt" complex post from Printer8?
"I really hope people who voted for Labour regret the day they didn't vote for my favourite political party National."

What's next? Another round of calling people racists for being anti-mass immigration?

you must be feeling the above mentioned "butt-hurt" yourself to make this "connection" to racism / anti immigration etc. Thank Grant for it ..

Heh. The connection lies with Printer8's previous comments on another couple of migration related articles. It's apparent Printer8 has a chip on his/her shoulder about something.

Nzdan have you been following the Groyper War that's going on at the moment? The younger generation in the US could be waking up to the fact that the so called "conservatives" have conserved nothing.

The Conservatives have not conserved anything and
The Liberals have not given away anything.
The One Percent gang rules.

Nzdan
You need to take the time to:
- Find out the difference between a "prejudice comment" and a "racist comment" as clearly you currently don't, and
- Look at the comments I have referred to as being prejudice, and maybe with an open inquiring mind you will see how they are prejudicial.

I know the difference.

I am voting for Trump in NZ's 2020 elections. He will build a wall around Auckland for sure. And not with immigrant labours at that.

We would have to use immigrant Labour to build a wall around Auckland .............. we dont have any spare builders to do it

I am sure many of the residents would volunteer.

This whole migration numbers thingy is so confusing, when you report month by month, quarterly, half yearly, annually etc. What is the final outcome ? Are we getting more people in or out ?
Is there any sense in continuing with our ad hoc policies and changes to the Migration thingy ?
Which party is promising what as regards controlling or expanding migration ?
Which party is delivering on its promises or cheating on its promises ?
Can some one explain in a detailed article, please ? Thanks.

Well those South Africans are going have to move into their cousins garage in Browns Bay at this rate

Will most South Africans moving here be able to afford a house. Just did a quick check and 4 bedroom house with a large garden and pool in Durban has an asking price of 5.2 million Rand. Converting that to Nz dollars gives you About $550,000. 1 rand = about 10cents.

@veryinterested I dont know about 'Most "of them , we employ a good few South Africans and only one owns a home and her husband is in IT in a well paid job , the rest are all renters and they seem to take about 3 to 5 years to get settled .

Most of the younger ones dont seem to be able to save the deposit

It’s about a 50:50 split with our friends from SA. Those that have been here 25 years are all homeowners but those that have arrived in the last 10 years are renters.

The South Africans I have met tell you "they left the country with nothing and had to start again" but strangely they arrived and have bought $1M+ houses straight away and are living in style....just less the chef, the gardener etc that they are used to in SA.

I doubt that new arrivals from South Africa can afford a $1,0 MILLION home anywhere in new Zealand on arrival , they cant take that sort of money with them , and they dont have it , hell even Kiwis dont have that sort of money

At that price you would be looking at a mansion in South africa. In Johannesburg you could get a very nice house for under $300k (double brick and tile on a maybe section) in a good area.

Problem is you wouldn't dare leave your house

15
up

national wont lower the numbers , no vote for them
labour wont lower the numbers no vote for them
the greens want to increase the numbers, no vote for them
NZ first will lie about lowering the numbers, no way will I vote for them
that leaves who?
every party wants to keep it going and they are all on the same page so it does not leave a voter with a choice

What does the blue green party say? More NZ wildlife or more aliens?

Elections are a scam.

May be the newly minted Sustainable Party will promise to have a nation wide binding referendum, to be voted by citizens only, on annual numerical quotas on each type of visa ? I will vote for them in a jiffy if they do that.

Great news hearing the numbers chasing my rentals is going through the roof. Even I am astounded at the rents some people are getting. I am keeping my rental increases less than average in order to keep my long term tenants in place. Of course if the Government would pay me what they pay Housing NZ for their rentals I would happily provide many more rentals and this would then avoid the need for emergency accommodation in motels.

God blesses you!

AKL will be the most beneficiary region for this.. always - after we crunch the number of population increases in every region within 3-5-7 years - Please, don't tell me that regions have a one child policy whilst AKL not ;-)

Japan has shown the world in early 90's and still reeling up until now.. dealing with ageing population, and disconnected youth from the idea of breeding (marrying a doll is common there) - NZ watching out, keen to avoid the same fate, we breed too slow/low specially with the current less than 50% male populations that very much binged from young age (poor tadpole motility), answer?: more peoples, elderly, educated, crims, young, old etc. - as long as bring in the $ (see the recent increase of income caps & NZIS doubling fees?), make sure the flame lite up from: viticulture, horticulture, farming, age care & any other labour intensive exploit industries - but oh dear, we forgot how to support them structurally; housing, education, healthcare..

You could do a lot worse than marrying a Japanese sex doll.

Yea, like lobbying the banks.. to start normalising the beyond 30yrs loan... 50, 60, 70 yrs? we really need to stop advising our children to save, it's for the looser remember? - tell them to spend, spend, spend.. get a loan at early age from the banks, build a trust, portfolios & good credits - agree? ;-)

Hadn't heard about INZ doubling fees. It is about time. The fees will still be far below the full cost of travelling to NZ so potential immigrants shouldn't mind (those Vietnamese who suffocated on their way to England had paid smugglers $60,000, our fees for studying at pseudo-PTEs are many multiples of the INZ visa fees) but with a more sensible income INZ will be able to take on more staff. The current delays in processing are a total disgrace and are probably putting some highly skilled applicants off (they will chose somewhere better). More income to pay the current highly demoralised staff a decent salary so they do their job with considertion rather than irrational nit-picking; more income will allow INZ to tackle the incompetance among their employees.

It is now, Lapun just not being announced publicly - work mate, has shown me the fee before & after, all categories, felt sorry for him but at the same time felt sorry for NZ, as he is one of those skilled worker wanted here, now like most of them, plotting the way out to OZ - The 9yr sleep on the wheel for parental support then 'frozen' before year 9 ended, the re-open recently with the new bunch, but with the $ super up tweak.

Each migrant coming in on any type of visa should be asked to pay $50000 towards an Infrastructure Fund, just like airport fees, because they are going to use the existing facilities. No free boating please.

Don't hold your breath on it. Up till a year ago, NZ taxpayers' were even subsidising the operating costs of INZ. The fees charged on applications came up well-short to cover the department's wage and rent bills.
The previous government believed that NZers should share the INZ's financial burden since we collectively benefit from immigration.
They also said any increase in visa fees could act as a disincentive of skilled workers moving to NZ. This shows how the party regards the calibre and future earning potential of the "skilled" workers we bring in.

@smokey , your suggestion is simply crazy , and is not worth a second thought ................ we welcome and need migrants, and Governments job is to build infrastructure

Boatman, in my simple poll above 85% of those that voted don't want an increasing population. You often make sensible comments on here, so can you lay out your case for more migrants, and what population we should be aiming for in 2030, 2040 and beyond.

@Beanie , I am not being sarcastic , I have a really complex view of the immigration conundrum , not really articulated, that I have seen by anyone else .

I am in favour of hitting the pause button to get a decent plan in place , particularly in relation the the infrastructure deficit

BUT I am not in favour of stopping immigration completely , and the silly idea of making them pay $50,000 to come here is ludicrous .

Here are my reasons :-

1) A skilled migrant ( on the skills shortage list ) will find a well paid job pretty quickly , and they bring real needed skills ....... for example a huge chunk of our entire electrical transmission and reticulation system is run by ex-South Africans from a set-up called ESCOM and large numbers of Filipinos
2) He or she will pay tax at an average rate around 25% per annum , so in 60 months they will have paid anything between $20,000 and $100,000 in income tax alone
3) They will pay 15% GST on every purchase they make
4) They are an immediate add to our GDP
5) They widen the Tax Base as skilled workers
5) They widen our skills base
6) They dont get middle class welfare like Working For Families as people on skills visas dont qualify .
7) They are likely to invest here for their retirement

I am sure there are other reasons to keep them coming , but we do need to debate the issue and have a clear plan

But we aren't getting skilled labour. Jobs like cafe manager are on the list of essential skills.

Saying things like "They add to our GDP" shows how wrong you are to me. Yes they will add to total GDP. But GDP per capita? Or productivity per capita? Nope.

And plenty go on welfare. Then bring over their frail elderly parents. We're such pushovers.

@davo36 , you are simply wrong ............migrants on work visas simply cannot access any benefits at all .

Sarcasm much, my friend ?

Just been to yet another Auckland house auction this evening where Kiwi couples were out bid heavily by several Chinese.
Winston Peters - What a waste of space.