There were multiple bidders for every apartment and they all sold under the hammer but prices were below their council valuations

The Lapwood Spiral building has weathertightness issues.

There was a decidedly buoyant mood at this week's auction at Ray White City Apartments, where six properties were on offer and all attracted multiple bids and all sold under the hammer.

The units on offer were an interesting mix.

First up was a 69 square metre, two bedroom unit with a car park in the Q Central Complex just off the top end of Queen St and across the road from Myers Park.

It was rented at $590 a week on a fixed term tenancy until early next year.

Q Central is a leasehold complex and this unit had ground rent charges $9105 a year plus operating expenses of $4495, taking total outgoings to $13,600.

According to QV.co.nz it had a current rating valuation of $520,000 and was last sold in 2005 for $289,000.

At this week's auction it sold for $186,000.

That was followed by a two bedroom unit in the Volt building on the corner of Queen St and Mayoral drive, which has been a mainstay of the investment apartment market for several years.

The unit was 43 square metres and had a rating valuation of $410,000.

According to QV.co.nz had been purchased for $232,000 in 2013.

It sold for $370,000.

Next up was a 30 square metre,  one bedroom, apartment in the Lapwood Spiral building.

This building is in a great location on the edge of Myers Park, giving many of the units in it appealing views.

But it also has severe weathertightness issues.

These are so severe that the building consultants' report identifying the problems said they were unwilling to give an estimate of likely repair costs but that they would be substantial.

So buyers were taking a punt on how much the repair bill would ultimately be, but there were several potential buyers prepared to have a go and the bidding was quite competitive and it sold under the hammer for $123,000, which meant the vendor should still have made a profit.

According to QV.co.nz it had been purchased for $101,800 in 1998.

Number four in the Order of Sale was a 30 square metre studio in the Heritage Tower on Nelson St.

It was managed under contract by the Heritage Hotel as part of its pool of units and was sold fully furnished.

According to QV.co.nz it had been purchased for $125,000 in 2005 and had a current rating valuation of $320,000.

It sold for $230,000 plus GST (if any).

The penultimate offering was a 40 square metre, two bedroom unit in the Altitude building on Kingston St.

It was rented at $420 a week on a fixed term tenancy which had about six weeks to run.

According to QV.co.nz it had been purchased for $215,000 in 2008 and had a current rating valuation of $380,000.

It sold under the hammer for $340,000.

The final offering was a 76 square metre unit with three bedrooms, two bathrooms and a tandem garage in the Shoalhaven complex at Takapuna.

According to QV.co.nz it had been purchased for $625,000 just three months ago in December last year and had a current rating valuation of $730,000.

There was competitive bidding for the unit it sold for $726,000.

The results of these and many other other auctions form around th country are available on our Residential Auction Results page.

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174 Comments

Here we go mark-to-market below CV.

These apartments are among the worst of the worst - shoebox, leaky, noisy, leasehold....... all the red flags.

They are so flawed that I regard them as liabilities rather than assets. I wouldn't have the likes of them on my mind. (Am not interested in buying someone else's problem.)

That they should sell "en masse" is testimony to the underlying strength of the Auckland property market.

TTP

Is that the worlds smallest violin.

Music to my ears.

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Property with a rateable value of $520k selling for $186k = a 65% drop in price.

I questioned some posters who predicted 70% reduction in property prices. I apologise and now accept that there will be a 70-100% price reduction as the market corrects. Those who have sat around for 10 years bleating can now swoop in a buy a property in Auckland for a $1.50 and a half eaten moro bar.

My thoughts exactly. I guess I too stand corrected =)

Based on extrapolating that out, this time next year we can expect to being receiving money for taking property off investors.

No such luck for you Grendel.

TTP

.

CVs are not market, only a tax base calculated via desktop assessment of sales in area. Most long term owner occupiers who want reasonable rates will object, investors/ those intending to sell won't.

But that rateable value is absurd given the property is on leasehold land with an annual bill of 33% of the rental income required to keep it. I thought RV's were smart enough to reflect that the owner doesn't own (any of) the land the property is on, but in this case it is clearly well off.

call it RV 300K, selling for 186K is just a meagre 40% drop in price...

And it appears that the ground rent is up for review this December for Q Central..

The RV’s only purpose is to set the rates. If you could get a lower RV by leasing the land wouldn’t everyone do that. If I didn’t have to pay rates on my land I would pay 90% less rates.

According to QV.co.nz it had a current rating valuation of $520,000 and was last sold in 2005 for $289,000.

At this week's auction it sold for $186,000.

So they had it for 13 years and lost $103K. Seems strange, must be something wrong with it

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The single word of death... "leasehold" :)

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... it beggars belief that people are willing to stump up a largish amount of capital to buy one of these .... plus the substantial ground rent , even though you got no ground .... and ongoing operating expenses ... to own what is essentially a large shoe-box in the sky ...

Not for the Lessor!

... not too sure about the 70 % reduction in property prices ... but if they reach 100 % I will definitely be stepping in with an empty Gummy wallet to grab a freebie apartment or two ...

I really don't understand the purpose of CV's if there's the potential that a market and it's pricing are irrational?

Think I've mentioned this before, but lets say in Dublin before their housing crash, were the CV's overrated by a factor of 100% or after the crash were the underrated by a factor of 50%? So if that same inaccuracy applies to Auckland CV's, then we could apply the Dublin example and say hey, this house/apartment is worth anywhere between $300,000 and $1,000,000 - you take your guess - should we advertise that fact that property CV's are accurate to within +100% or -50%....

For the purpose of sharing out Rates bills, it doesn't really matter so long as the whole city is equally irrational.

Ummmm... You are SO wrong and your logic SO flawed I don't know where to start. Do you not know how ratios work?

I dont understand, mfd seems correct. If the whole city is irrationally valued at +50% then the impact to each properties rate will be relatively minor.

Feel free to correct me. As I understand, rates bills are essentially total revenue required * (your CV/total CV). If your CV and the total CV both double, your rates bill isn't affected.

I may be ignoring a fixed component of the rates bill but I understand that's relatively small.

Ok, maybe I was jumping the gun there and this is simply miscommunication, if so I apologies. To clarify my point;

The original post commented on the Market Value (or assumed actual value of the property) was widely varied from 100% of CV to -50% of CV. This means that you are basically getting a randomly allocated ratio that is unrelated to the actual value of your property.

I agree and Lumiar pointed out above that if everyone is varied the same e.g. 50% over or undervalues then its fine.

But that does not appear to be the case since the variance for sales can be 50% less up to 100% of CV. E.g the Apartment that sold at a massive discount will be subsiding the apartments that sold closer to their CVs. In theory at least, as the rates they will pay are not based on the sale value.

It looks like the council has been lazy and inaccurate with the CVs this year (or just trying to get more people inside the highest band of rates increase) and it's way out of wack for a lot of properties. The funny thing is homes.co.nz and other valuation websites revised their valuation based on the wrong CVs so we have inaccuracies everywhere :)

Its a convenient and lazy metric with relevance only at times when it has widespread currency. Alot of the time its redundant as there are other far better ways to value ie: viewing the property and making a determination based on what it is you want vs what you can reasonably offer.

Or thinking bigger and comparing current prices with historical prices, historical interest rate movements, capacity to pay a mortgage over a 30 year term, ratios between incomes and prices, and past property irregularities (globally) and concluding that house prices might just be irrational at present....(or either that, this is in fact, the new norm)

Well obviously but there is a prevailing distrust of such statistical measures here that would appear to suggest that any inference from the big picture to inform personal decision making is a road to hell

A few things some need to appreciate about rateable values from my understanding which I stand to be corrected on.
1. Rateable valuations are produced by Quoteable Value, a state owned entity who purpose was formerly conducted by the former Valuation Department before being made a state owned enterprise. QV are contracted by councils to produce RVs.
2. The rateable values are just computer generated being based the selling price of "similar" properties based on factors such as size of building, construction, age etc and does not factor in factors such as condition, insulation, and aspect. From my understanding while some field checking is carried out, this is neither robust (e.g. inspection of interior) nor comprehensive throughout an area. As such houses are likely to have considerable variation between houses of the same RV.
3. Property owners have the opportunity to challenge the RVs, and some (who are likely to be selling in the near future) argue upwards to make the value more attractive, while others (who may not have any intention of selling) will argue down to obtain a lower rating on the property.
4. Rateable values are not intended as a valuation for market purposes; they are simply an estimated value for Council to apply rates base on the property's value.
5. When looking at a property to buy, the RV which can be readily obtained from council websites, can give a rough guide as to the property's value in terms of the above, but it need to be appreciated that the RV can be very dated and therefore highly inaccurate especially in a changing market as RVs are only calculated every three years.
6. If one is interested in a property, then for about $50 one can get an e-value from QV (I highly recommend) which is simply a computer generated value and therefore equivalent to a RV but at least current. This will give a closer current estimate to the value of a house, and if one is really interested, then as part of the offer a condition should be "subject to a valuation by a registered valuer" which will set one back by about $600. This can be money well spent not only for one's protection (and probably a requirement of the bank) but as it may be possible to subsequently negotiate ones offer down by more than the cost of the valuation.
7. While a e-Value is calculated in the same manner as a RV by the same company sales data, the e-value will show a considerable range and a level of significance - enough to appreciate that not much weight should be put on a single figure RV.
8. An finally, just because ones RV may go up, say by 10%, it doesn't mean that one is going to pay 10% more rates. If properties - and RVs - have gone up by 15%, the one will find one's self paying less than the council's percentage increase in rates.

Does the RV computer have an algorithm that questions - 'am I in a bubble?' If so, apply irrationality factor/standard error of +100% to -50% to RV's.....

How could you have a standard error that is both +100% and -50%?
Seems illogical..

Well - were valuations in Dublin for example 100% high before the crash, or 50% low after the crash?

Or does the RV hold no value at all? We just adjust it to market selling price regardless of what the true value of the asset is? (true value should remove any irrationality right?)

I was meaning that estimate variance is a scalar value.
It cannot be +100% one way and -50% the other. (Even saying negative variance is counter intuitive).

Haha, that's funny

1 - Correctish.
QV is essentially CoreLogic Ltd. Not a state owned enterprise.
Smaller councils may use CoreLogic data, and consultancy services but the bigger ones normally use their own valuation teams.
2 - Again, correctish.
The hedonic models for pricing property are based on all transacted properties, not just similar properties. Variance of the estimates are in the region of 10% on the standard CoreLogic models, so I'd expect similar in the Council CVs.

All the rest is more or less correct.

Apparently the RVs don't include chattels?

Why would they?

Thank you. Too many are daft in terms of reliance of CV telling them about market performance & expectations.

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B&T's Friday West Auckland auctions today
5 sold out of 24..

At what delta to CV were the sales?

93 tiroroa te atatu - 847
196 Edmonton rd te atatu - 1.2
21 carillon place massey - 740

don't hve the other two

Thank you!

interestingly all slightly above CV.

21% clearance, wouldn't like to be one of the other 79%

Why?

Because youve just wasted your time and money (and probably a bit of nervous energy) on nothing.

Now you'll have to list it with a price and it can sit with the other 13000 Auckland properties siting waiting for someone to come in with a low-ball offer for your substantially overpriced West Auckland craphole.

Meanwhile that bridging finance is starting to bite

Any more stupid questions @Grendel

Yes, how do you know all the other properties have bridging finance?

Side note, when you reply to someone people assume the message is directed at them so you don't need to add "@"

@ theglc

lol

Why? Because in RE, the more time a property sitting unsold on listing means more reasons for the buyer will to drive down the price.

no one asked you lol

@ Chairman Moa (still lol)

cripes Grendel.....why the attitude?

Intermittent Explosive Disorder (self-diagnosed)

My triggers are forum comments with no or poor attempts to be based on facts or logic

@ Grendel, do you own this website?

I thought so..

Hit a nerve I see =)

CV is about as useful in pricing a home as employing a prospective job candidate on the same abbreviation. In my experience it is only after meeting the house or the job applicant that I make my decision, because most of what is on paper is often a complete abstraction from reality.

Goodness. Whats so tragic about this whole thing is that I, as a FHB, obviously want a major correction (as I dont wish to be indebted my whole life) but a major correction will devastate so many other FHB who have already bought, as well as possibly negatively affecting the economy for everyone. There will be few winners whether property prices continue to grow or they collapse.

Indeed . The least bad scenario would be a prolonged period of nominal price stability ( or near ). This is what the government should be trying to engineer - although there is no guarantee that they could, even with the best of will and the smartest people in charge.

Nominal price stability still means prices remain overly inflated (we do have some of the least affordable housing in the world) and people like me remain without a home. Im not sure that is the answer. Some sort of gradual decline would be better but Im not certain that can be engineered as there were so many factors at play to get to where we are now.

If you do buy a home you will want it to be a half decent sort of investment. I presume you are insisting on buying in Auckland?

I cant afford to buy a house in Auckland. We have been looking at purchasing elsewhere but work has always been a limiting factor; I dont think we are alone in our situation unfortunately.
I understand the mindset around wanting it to be an investment but Im way past that stage, I just really want a plave to live I can call my own.

You probably need a deposit of around 130K and be a two income couple to buy a standalone house in Auckland.
This one in Te Atatu South I see as a current ideal FHB example. It sold for 650K

https://www.barfoot.co.nz/610618

$650 a week paid off in 25 years. $450 would be interest payments (less than rent?) while $200 a week would be accumulating equity. You could probably count on at least another $200 a week in capital gain (2%)

The problem with a gradual decline ( steeper than real price decline implied by nominal price stability ) is that people would rationally hold off buying ( cheaper later ) so a crash becomes likely , with all the negative consequences of it just as you outlined.

There is no good answer . Nominal price stability seems the least bad one.

Well said Ngrrk

lol, Wow, my goodness! ... market falling by 70% ?...OMG,

I am really confused .... was that a misprint or it is really SIX apartments??
I had the impression that we are talking about 60 or 600 that have sold under CV .... so how many have been sold over CV in the last month then ---there must be none !

Am I the only one who is amused by the title and its following comments ?

SIX? ... lol, wow ... Even chicken littles would be ashamed to call this an event ...!

"Am I the only one who is amused by the title and its following comments ?"

I guess you're the only one.. small minds are easily amused!!!

lol, thanks man, .... of course , who am I next to Big mInds roaming this site day and night who would never be amused with such trivial events ? ^ ^

QV, CV, RV, TV OMG no wonder I am lost! How do you differentiate them!??!

You missed GV, DGZ. That was what we referred to before these others

Hi Eco Bird,

I don't think you'll find too many houses in Auckland's inner-city suburbs being discounted by 70%.

Remember, there are very few checks and balances on what gets written in this blog......... Hence, a number of contributors will assert with a straight face that black is white - and that night is day.

In particular, watch out for the DGM (i.e. doom and gloom merchants) who are notorious for exaggeration and fabrication when it comes to pushing their agendas. Integrity is not their strongpoint.

TTP

Hi TTP,
Again, I am guilty of breaking the golden rule my friend ,,,

I am trying not to engage with the "Big Minds" ... but get pissed off at times as to how derailed and disconnected some people are from reality and they assert in straight face that Black is White ... problem is that some new or naive people could actually believe them ....and that is sad.

The rule stands : "Arguing with fools make you look like one"

I will do my best to apply it strictly

Hi Eco Bird,

Indeed, "arguing with a fool only makes you look like one" must remain the mantra of the mature and the wise.

Increasingly, I resist arguing with the "blind" and the incompetent - and those who are just plain thick/ignorant, mistaken, misguided or deceitful.

It becomes so tiresome dealing with them.

TTP

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This sounds like the ego of a deaf orchestra.....'am I in tune'....'of course' said the deaf pianist to the deaf violinist......

The crowd listens on in horror.....

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I love it how a small group of interest.co.nz commentators substantially outperform the population in the attribution of metaphor and analogy to their character.

I'm glad TTP, DGZ, and Eco found each other though.
It must be difficult to meet people on that same wavelength in real life.

nymad, what's worth noting on other threads are the boastful ramblings about unbanked capital gains. A stark reminder that things are not far from hitting the fan. Its this unsophisticated group that mimic the behavior of the financially unprepared.

It's like the music has stopped and they are still dancing......Its a tell tale sign.

That's actually a pretty good way to look at a financial bubble - 'musical chairs for the hearing impaired'.....everyone's still dancing, but the music has stopped, they just don't realise it...

The key word here is "Unbanked". But even if it was "Banked", our Australian banks, in particular one called Westpac has just switched 8.6 billion in "interest only" loans to "Principle and Interest" with enormous increases in these customers repayments. This is just the first lot to be switched over after the initial 5 year interest free period ended and there are more coming over the next few months. At the end of last year, Westpac was involved in a hearing which forced them to disclose that up to 50% of their property loan portfolios were on taken out on interest only terms which was so alarming that APRA forced the banks to reduce their ratio to within 22% (approx). So the nett result is that now many of it's customers are unable to meet their repayments on time and are under significant financial stress already. At the same time, Australia has just passed Bail-in laws which can take depositors money if the bank gets into financial trouble due to it's customers defaulting on-masse. It is getting pretty real now in OZ. These banks are OUR banks too.

RP a crash and collapse is the outcome you want. You sound really glum that we aren't taking any notice of you. RIP RP

Houseworks, like I was saying, the unsophisticated ramblings of the financially unprepared only serve to indicate things are close to hitting the fan. You are a leading indicator of the crash nobody wants yet in fear of missing out went max leverage and played your part. It's not so smart a strategy on the downhill leg.

Well done you!

Yes you are right we went max leverage, in the 1990s. Borrow and hope was the catchphrase except not much hope was needed as with property it is a winner 99 percent of the time. Apart from Doom Merchants everyone realises that property is the best option. The other one percent of properties can be made a winner with some extra work and flair. Stick with your TD

Your exuberant optimism is an alarm bell for why we should be concerned.

Out of interest - have you ever researched historical property bubbles? Or do those events only happen in other countries and at different times? There evidence that property isn't always a winner, doesn't fit your paradigm so you ignore those data points when evaluating investment decisions?

You will never understand my friend, I know your type. With respect to property bubbles you have a point for those who are overleveraged which we are not. Furthermore this upswing comes down to fundamentals (see what I did there ;))

nymad
The spruikers here provide much amusement over a drink
I see Auckland with a population of 1.5mill now has city debt only $1Billion less than North America’s 4th largest city. No land transfer taxation & subsidized rating of Aucklands higher priced suburbs continues and thus Auckland will go broke unless corrective policy adjustments by the city are implemented & central govt starts funding Auckland rather than merely collecting taxation from it in various forms.
Of course the high debt status quo will continue until it strangles Aucklands Services & Central govt will be forced to finally act. What good is your city apartment if the city is broke ?

I don't get your last line NL it bears no relation to the rest of your comment. "What good is your city apartment if the city is broke ?"

NorthernLights, its ugly - ballooning Auckland Council (NET) debt of 7.97 Billion;

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=1191...

It serves to illustrate the underlying risks posed if/when interest rates head higher.

Houseworks, as a ratepayer like myself, aren't you remotely concerned if Auckland Council was forced to ration maintenance on essential services, at the same time continuing to hike rates just to cover the interest on an ever increasing debt? Think about it.

Auckland council debt is forecast to pass 11 billion in the next few years.

Stop stressing yourself rp or you will be rip sooner than you'd hoped. That's only a lot of money until you analyse it and it comes down to about $100pa interest per person in Auckland. I would rather council spend money to keep the city infrastructure updated than not how about you?

Have you ever considered that your 'reality' is just the paradigm through which you see the world, and not the actual 'reality' (which would be a combination of all peoples points of views, from all angles and accounting for all paradigms)?

If that was understood, you'd come to value of the points of views of those whom you disagree with most....I don't mind your view, or TTP's, or DGZ's, or ZS's, it helps me understand what the property bulls are thinking and to build a better picture of what the market could do based upon ALL of the players in the game (not just those that agree with my point of view - which I know is limited by my own thinking/paradigm).

If you had read my Unified Quantum Market Theory, yet to be peer reviewed by my fellows at the local half way house and then published in hand written ink on the back of the latest Property Press, you would realise just how insane you actually are (smiley wink face)

IO - if only it were that simple

If you gather all of the available information on any given topic and interpret it with an open mind, then you'll be closer to reality than if you decide you don't want to view or interpret data that fails to fit with the 'reality' that is already in your head.....

As a concept, that is quite simple. Unless of course, you think you already know all of the information on a topic and there's nothing further to learn, but that would be a fairly egotistical position to take wouldn't you think?

I was laughing any managed to sell at all. These properties are often leaky, leasehold, needing refurbishment, and normally go well under half the last CV (not even the current one). I share the sentiment of others that you may have been so unaware of this that you are astounded by this information. Newsflash this has been the case for over a decade.

My understanding of RVs and leasehold is that the RV is valued as if it is not leasehold. When you think about it someone owns the land. It may be leased to someone but someone or something still owns it. For instance Cornwall Park leaseholds are owned by the Cornwall Park Trust.
So the sales figure of a leasehold property has no relevance to the RV. Indeed it should be much, much lower, indeed that is the only relevance.
I don't include such properties in my "reports".

Leasehold is basically buying the house off your landlord and then paying him rent. Nice arrangement.

Its really not a kiwi thing

I don't include such properties in my "reports".

You don't have any reports. You have observations spiced with sentiments. In any robust form, that's not really a "report." It's a comment on a public forum, quite likely produced to trigger a reaction. In other words, a troll.

scare quotes
noun
quotation marks placed round a word or phrase to draw attention to an unusual or arguably inaccurate use.
And yes I want to promote an 'on topic' discussion on a subject that is dear to our hearts.
I welcome, more analysis, even flawed analysis of the results.

The truth is we don't actually discuss these things at BBQs anymore as it is a little crass so this is the only place, the auction results page.

Interesting that the commercial auction results article today has no comments while this one has over 100. Is no one interested in commercial property sales?

"It's really not a kiwi thing."

And there are good, sound reasons for that.

TTP

for the likes of TTP http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=1200...
im sure, you'll will still argue ..

lol, the begging is On, where are the promises? --- even with huge surpluses and booming GDP .... shame !!
http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/c23d67aa/robertson-seeks-investment-c....

at least he is doing it, compared to the 9 year of National government starving the nation of infrastructure spend

Agreed - it's a terrible shame that the country got into this state in the last decade of underfunding. Now Labour have the unenviable task of tidying up while commentators complain about how much they are spending.

If they spend big, they're reckless, if they don't, they get complaints like the above. Maybe it's just whinging for whinging's sake from the doom and gloom merchants?

mfd - I made a comment on another thread that we've just had 9 years of the Rob Peter to pay Paul Party, and now that the robbing of Peter is being limited, the Pauls are crying blue murder....I mean - what the hell - we should be able to keep robbing Peter....why aren't we robbing Peter anymore....anyone...someone....please explain to me why we can't keep robbing Peter....its good for him......and Peter better not complain.....for if he does....well he must be a left wing loser.......how dare we give Peter a chance to get ahead....getting ahead in this country is only achieved by Peter robbing Paul.....Paul can't rob from Peter.....we may both be human beings living in New Zealand but we all know that because I'm called Peter, I deserve to take from Paul without complaint....I'm a superior human being to Paul....Paul is my slave...I take from Paul.....and if he tries to change the system I label him...I'll label him a loser...waste of time left wing bludger.....

(This, I'm lead to believe, is the repeating story that is on loop in the minds of some commentators on this site)

You bought your clock when John Key became pm in 2008/2009.

Now,now...be nice Eco...I thought you only debated facts at an intellectual level..."...the begging is on" is a somewhat twisted view on that article.

Well not PPP private public partnerships ecobird. Labour was dead set against them when in opposition!

Yes, And now they like it and would take it, along with any infra Bond structure to save the day - PT woke up to the risks involved and was certainly told that they won't have endless money to support his dreams - so Labour will now do a deal with the devil to get some money that will make them look good - While they promised the earth they don't want to take all the risk.. or suffer any eggs on the face come 2020.

So After telling business to suck it up, they now want to use their investment experience ( lol) and help to get them out of the Hole. - Good luck

So how much interest will be charged on these arrangements ?? and who is going to pay for this Additional investment ( in billions) ?? are they going to make it user paid or general taxation? ,,,, this lot is anything but transparent, in fact they look very doggy in their planning - if there was a plan in the first place !!

Robertson wants his "wellbeing" budget to look nice too and show that they are doing something right other than just splashing it around to please supporters ....

Every parent knows that giving away too much pocket money spoils the kids, putting that extra into a saving trust secures their future.

Some contractors and even professionals when quoting a job, promise the earth in the sort of outcome they will deliver but in the end they give you a handful of dust. This govt is shaping up just like this

In approx 21 days, there might be quite a few going really cheap - may be it's a ploy from the motherland.
http://mobile.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.php?c_id=2&objectid=1200...

Damn that Daily Mail, they got the scoop. Now its just a matter of assembling an ensemble cast of real life heroes. John Key as Ben Affleck, Winston Peters as nononsense stalwart Bruce Willis, Liv Tyler as Liv Tyler (coz let’s face it Jacinda’s up the duff)...

It is a nifty premise for a disaster movie.

Paula Bennett needs to be in the Shelley Winters role.

Judith Collins = Liv Tyler

Oh dear god! A wellbeing budget. Cant wait to see the terms of reference through my woolly spectacles.

This article's title highlights that prices were below their council valuations but also that there were multiple bidders for every apartment and they all sold under the hammer.

Of special importance is the last apartment which sold for 101k more than it did three months earlier.

What does this tell us?

It tells us that it's GAME ON! again whoohoo!

33,300 of income tax at 33 percent under bright-line test if this was an investor owner or flipper. The point of the tax is working. There is absolutely no need to extend bright-line out to five years

And why would that be?

except to capture those that are holding for more than two years..and there is nothing wrong with that.

Exactly,why should selling a house after 2 years & 1 day not attract a tax as opposed to 2 years if the intent was capital gain.
My kids pocket savings account pay tax on every cent,every month...just checked,last month was 14 cents...at least we are catching the big fish aye lol...

That's right vman - the savings accounts are taxed - many of those are trying to save for their first home - while darklords speculate on capital gains and pay minimal tax and we wonder why the system is getting distorted.

Flippers don't hold for two years vmam they cannot afford to. As in this case it was three months and that is the standard time frame.

Really? they can't afford to put the house on an interest only mortgage and get tenants in for two years to avoid ~30% tax. Sounds like bovine excrement to me.

Houseworks, according to you, the Brightline and CGT (initial intent) tax are two separate taxes! You argued this out on another thread. By suggesting the house flipper could potentially be taxed twice is just downright scary!

Go procreate yourself RP I'm getting sick of your nonsense answers on this topic, you think that bright-line test is the same as the CGT been threatening. CGT if it comes will cover every investment type including your bonds that you sell before maturity and vman's one million a2 shares that he bought for 10 cents each

And what exactly is the problem with that, especially if it allows for a reduction in other income taxes or heaven forbid funds necessary infrastructure?

Hi meh. The majority of nz is totally against cgt and the labour party had to back track their proposal to introduce one before 2020 remember

Houseworks, you are wrong. Over 1/2 New Zealanders support CGT provided it excludes the family home;

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/over-half-new-zealanders-sup...

I for one certainly support a CGT on this basis. Again your unsophisticated approach to finances has let you down ;-(

I support any tax I don’t have to pay myself. I suspect those without rental properties did the same here.

Yup ;)

The labour party (jacinda ardern) backtracked during the election campaign. Their popularity was taking a hit. They initially planned to bring in cgt before the next election if the tax working group rubber stamped a cgt. So there.

What was Nationals position on CGT and whats happening to their popularity now?

Is this a rhetorical question? If not, it’s a strange linkage. Here’s some similar ones http://www.tylervigen.com/view_correlation?id=1703

Have a look at this article from the past...the previous govt's forward thinking on infrastructure,they didn't want Labours Waterview Tunnel,which has gone on to be Aucklands most successful piece of recent infrastructure...but old Joycey & co were there with bells on at the ribbon cutting ceremony...

I for one would not want to be stuck in Auckland gridlock inside the tunnel and not moving. Very Interesting how Russel Norman was in favour.

I liked the bit where it talked about '1950's dinosaur thinking'.

I like the bit where it says 500 properties would have been lost in the surface option...even there roads were designed to worsen the housing crisis lol...

Here's the link on what's happening in the market right now!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv87nbyW204&feature=youtu.be

what are you like! mike hosking videos the other day and now bayley's amateur hour videos.... you are nuts!

EcoBird, TTP, Zachary, Double-GZ, you are wasting your time giving your opinion on housing on Imterest.co.
The housing negatives will,always be that way and the fact that they are jealous of others says it all.
Why don’t you not make comments for awhile and just let them post away all their negative views, I am sure they will get quite depressed if they can’t get a response to their negativity!

Thank you TM2. I also think they are jealous of others. So sad *sigh*

Hi TM2 & DGZ,

That lot (including the DGM brigade) might well be jealous......

But they are almost certainly feeling embarrassed/humiliated, because their forecasts/predictions about the housing market have been consistently wrong.

We are a minority group here - in fact a very small minority - but we punch way above our weight.

TTP

Hi TM2 & DGZ & TTP ( the team) and others with similar views and intent.

I would have agreed with you TM2 if the DGMs were the only ones reading and posting on this site - while your idea is a good one, ( as it is best to ignore a drunk talking sh*t next to you in a bar), but I feel that other people log on here to get some info and experience as well as relevant news and would benefit from the diversified views and opinions ---

DMGs are hopeless , Negative and some are even plain noobs - their shallowness and lies can be easily uncovered..... However, in my view , it is unfair to let them get away with continuous spreading of their propaganda trying everything from emotional blackmail to hopes and tears, to even playing stupid to prove a point... let alone insults.

I believe that we and others form a good balance and provide counter argument to most of the biased and dare I say twisted info published here or intentionally driven by some, purely for political reasons ....

I also believe that we need to expose the current Gov and hold them to account and to the promises they made and to how they are spending our money -

I , for one, refuse to be fooled by their continuous twisting and turning after they have been elected - we want to see action and honesty. We cannot afford to let this Lot have a second term , now that they showed their true colors and how incapable they are (so far).

I would be happy to join the team if you decide otherwise.

Perhaps it would be suitable, that given you've decided you're a team, that we refer to you collectively, as 'Dad's Army'?

Hi Independent_Observer,

Sorry - but the name "Dad's Army" has already been reserved for Retired_Poppy and his motley old crew.

TTP

Good point ;-)

TTP, thank you! The title (Dads Army) gladly accepted with honor;-) However, me (a sprightly 52 year old) and my wise crew will not protect you and other REA's from the consequences of your financial ignorance.

OMG bhuahahaha who would have thought RP is still a good 10 years older than me - made my day.

Only 13 years to true retirement, national superannuation

Houseworks, ha-ha :), I'm not counting down the years to GRI. I now have you to do that for me.

Why an early retirement is bad for your health
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.belmarrahealth.com/early-retirement-bad...
Please take note rp. I don't want you to lose any more marbles

Given that they are a bunch of geriatric codgers that like nothing better than stroking each others egos, I suggest "The Lemon Party"

Hey you guys you left of THE MAN in your group....?

I just saw the team card... they put TM2 in his usual position.. left right out.

“The Man”is “The Man” he doesn’t need to be in a group.

Do you have a six pack DGZ and lean muscle mass.
Can you carve on a surfboard or kitesurf.
Are you a rock star or play a professional sport, are you a billionaire startup entreprenuer. (Actually even a few hundred million may get the green eye envy going- MAYBE! not sure as I love life)

Most of all do you have kids. These are my life.

If none of these things then I highly doubt you have anything to be jealous of.

Lets face TM2,everyones opinion in here hardly matters a jot...I don't ever recall hearing a polly saying he has changed his mind on policy because he had read a well thought out rant from some nobody in interest.co.nz.
As you say...it is an opinion...every one thinks theirs is the right one...human nature,saying people are jealous,while others say someone is spruiking...yawn...

Hi vman,

You're correct: opinions here hardly matter a jot.

But hanging about here at least helps pass the time between market upswings.......... (-;

TTP

and it looks like you'll have a lot of time to pass before the next upswing :)

meanwhile those of us that have cashed up will be buying in the slump, good times ahead.

happy to read your fictional commentary in the meantime

Eco Bird, some good points however anyone new reading this site will get pretty depressed and realise that the site is full of negatives and does not help anyone make financial decisions for their betterment.
It will help them make financial decisions, in not to buy property.
It is interesting that the property bears that think equities are better than real estate never ever tip shares to buy!
You would,think they would so that some would buy and force the price,of the share up!
Thing is though, that they probably don’t own any shares and do not know a lot about them either.
If they do,let’s see how good they are at tipping so,we can follow the price!

Heartland Bank and Restaurant Brands might be two worth considering if buying from NZX. But remember it's about the whole portfolio (including commercial property, bonds and cash, not individual share movements that determine performance).

TM2, ....Well,.... I will stick to commenting and putting up relevant news and reports for those who can benefit from useful info and to balance out twisted reports .

I shall ignore all the DGMs, and never get into conversation with them -- they can whistle as much as they like -- We know they will be exposed -- I shall abide by the old wisdom and the golden rule.

cheers

So are you going to drop rents? You know, treat others the way you would like to be treated? (Golden rule...)

Its not negative to look at fundamentals and see if house prices move to a more sustainable place where FHB and the average punter with kids can afford a home. Whats negative are people who want the market to move in a direction that makes it harder for house buyers to get a deposit together and buy a house. It also means these people have to borrow more and pay more interest. Who would want these things no one sane.

My time in financial markets taught me that people are psychologically comfortable when they have formed a view of the market that they believe is rational. When the market ‘rewards’ them with a move that confirms their view, then the confidence in their view is reinforced. When the market doesn’t move as expected then the discomfort is strong and people seek validation of their view from others and some also look to recruit followers. However the market doesn’t care, it’s what it is, the level at a point in time where active buyers and sellers chose to transact. I suspect few if any on here are transacting but have a market view they’d like to be right and it costs nothing here to voice it. If you can find a sparring partner all the better.

For those actually looking to buy their first home, it’s a lot more serious and I don’t see much commentary here that actually helps towards that. I look at the FHB’s in my extended family and I see choosing the regions and the bank of mum and dad as the constants. Personally, I’ve yet to see a solution to actually lower the prices of existing homes. The people at my work are not talking excitedly about pokey KiwiBuild prefabs. They want the classic kiwi weatherboard house, just not at current prices. They also know new build is worse.

If anything I think anyone who is vulnerable to our collective ramblings will be well served in trying to make an informed decision on whether or when to buy. There is plenty opined here that offers reasonable counterpoint and insight to certain commonly held and overly presumptive beliefs about the housing market that far from depressing, stultifying or dissuading one from action provide a degree of comfort in that we all, are or have been, in the same boat navigating the same sometimes random currents. You can either sink, float, drift or swim either by your own volition or leave it to nature’s whims but common to all of us is an inbuilt drive to carry on as best we can, and whenever and wherever we can derive some pleasure and satisfaction in doing so.

Fair enough TM2,try A2Milk (ATM) on the NZX,A2m on the ASX,I have held those since 2004,bought for 10 cents a share....that is what this country should be about,producing real wealth.
Follow that price...

Wow that will have been an impressive ROI for you vman

CGT it!!!!

Worldly-wise parting thought before I go nighty night. Home ownership, no matter how important or otherwise you may view it, it is nothing as compared to self-ownersip and all that that entails. Back yourself and you will find that no matter what the odds, if you are truly your own person, you will triumph. The moment you second guess yourself, you are exposed, and everybody else out there, whether intentionally or not, will exploit that weakness and use it to their betterment. You cannot move mountains on your own but your will can. That is true power, the power over oneself. Anyone can control others, that’s all too easy. Master self control and you are quite literally invinsible. ‘Will it happen’ is a question that seeks resolve. With a wee bit of semantic and grammatical license it becomes potentially the most powerful statement of resolve in bastardised English. ‘Will it. Happen.’

Six eligible properties added to the auction results page.
Eligible = Auckland, normal house/unit, no issues

13.160M in sales
12.295M 2017 RV +7%
8.850M 2014 RV +48.7%
4 over RV, 1 same, 1 under.

I always wonder about those that sold for exactly the RV. Did the RV influence the vendor and buyer? Or was it random?

I was talking with a Barfoots agent in the week and he said that up to 80% of properties that go to auction sell within the auction period. That is they sell within 48 hours of the auction and thus sell under auction conditions. This seemed an impressive figure to me and somewhat unbelievable. I found myself wishing that these were the results that were published. Why not? Why not agencies and interest.co.nz, surely that data is available?

Then I spied the old Barfoots 'Order of Sale' in a pile of papers on my desk. Well, of course, I could find out by going to each property's web advert and seeing for myself which ones had sold since the auction on 28 February. If you want a job done properly you have to do it yourself.

The result: 30 houses offered, 18 sold = 60% sold.
It would be interesting to do this regularly.

Yeah thanks Zachary, with that amount of money laundering going on not surprised that most residential buyers including FTB's are struggling to massive amounts a mortgage debt.

I'm sure we're in a similar position to Canada by now, their outstanding mortgage debt reach 76.27% the value of their GDP. That’s up 47% since the Great Recession kicked off in 2007.

Better Dwelling article: Canadian Real Estate Debt Passed 76% of GDP, Here’s The New Problem We Have
https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-real-estate-debt-passed-76-of-gdp-he...

Ahhh – Zachary, well done.

As I alluded to in another article – a bit of a battle wading through the “rinse & repeat” constant carry-on – but finally a “gem” – quite interesting and useful.

Now if I could simply find a way to filter out the 90% repetitive “noise”, this comment review process would be quite rewarding.

Thanks custard. People should keep in mind that articles and comments are read by more than just the usual commenters. Think about entertaining the wider audience or providing information, don't take thinks personally and avoid personal attacks. Try not to be repetitive. This last bit can be hard as everyone has their message but honestly these threads can be like talking to your aged grandparent in the resthome some days. I like comments that report on something happening or ones that are anecdotal or ones that are informative or answer a question.
I do like discussions about history, philosophy and politics however these often result in another "final warning" so if people think certain commenters are property obsessed there may be a reason for that.
Also try and stay on topic. Yes, comments on auction results articles will be mostly about property. We are trying to track what's happening out there.

To all commenters, it's a lovely day outside today, get off your butts and away from your computers and catch some fresh air instead of arguing like kids. Spend some time with your family or friends, Life is meant to be enjoyed

Exactly, it's quite sad to see the amount of precious time people spend debating an issue that neither party wants to concede..

I’d dare say however that most here, like myself, are in and out on the fly using their phones. The day I’d actually sit at my desktop for the purpose of making or fielding comment in a blog is the day I’d probably had my horlicks spiked with extra oxies by matron.