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If nobody moves, then nobody, or at least nobody in the top one percent of income earners, is going to get hurt

Public Policy / opinion
If nobody moves, then nobody, or at least nobody in the top one percent of income earners, is going to get hurt
q&a

By Chris Trotter*

New Zealand's biggest problem is the one it has created for itself. For the best part of a century New Zealanders were celebrated as policy trailblazers. From industrial conciliation and arbitration to women’s suffrage in the 1890s, to the Social Security Act of 1939, and the no-fault accident compensation scheme of the 1970s, the citizens of New Zealand took pride in their country’s reputation as “the social laboratory of the world”.

The mood changed, however, in the 1980s. From being the social scientists in white coats, the perception began to grow that New Zealanders had become lab rats. Experimentation, formerly perceived as “a good thing”, began to be coded as dangerous. More and more politicians were concluding that offering the electorate bold and transformational change was the height of folly. When the voters start reading promises as threats, then it’s time to stop promising.

The cause of this critical shift in voter perception was the nine-year period of radical transformational change which began with the Fourth Labour Government in 1984 and drew to a close under National in 1993 with the passage of the MMP referendum.

That bold experimentation acquired a bad name in this period was largely due to the fact that both “Rogernomics” and “Ruthanasia” were unleashed upon the country without either of the major parties clearly signalling their policy intentions before the votes were cast and counted.

If these ideas are so good, many voters demanded to know, then why did Labour and National not trust the voting public to recognise their merit?’ Why run on promises of “consensus” and “restoring the decent society” when both major parties were well aware that their true policy agenda would deliver neither?

The growing feeling that New Zealand politics had entered a period of institutionalised bad faith was reinforced by the “Tina doctrine”. (Tina standing for “there is no alternative”.)

That ominous phrase confirmed for many New Zealanders that they were being steered without their consent into very dangerous political territory. If the economic “experts” held that no course of action (other than the course they had already prescribed) was either desirable or even possible, then what would become of democracy?

If political parties could no longer debate and decide upon the policies put forward by their members with the slightest prospect of them being accepted and enacted by the domestic and international “powers that be”, then what purpose did party members serve beyond canvassing door-to-door, erecting billboards, and distributing pamphlets?

Small wonder that the membership of New Zealand’s two largest parties, once measured in the hundreds of thousands, plummeted to the low tens of thousands. There is a world of difference between being the mistress of one’s own house, and serving as the masters’ handmaid.

The consequences of this dramatic reduction in the number of New Zealanders willing to participate in electoral politics were nothing if not predictable. When it became clear that the transmission lines between the major party organisations and their MPs had been severed beyond repair their respective memberships split.

Those who opted to remain within the hollowed out holders of the brands “Labour” and “National”, rather than join NewLabour/Alliance, NZ First, or ACT, understood that their parties were now institutions dedicated primarily to identifying and recruiting potential MPs. The maintenance of a competent pool of volunteers experienced in triennial on-the-ground campaigning, while important, had ceased to be crucial. Political parties were professionalising. Enthusiastic amateurs no longer needed to apply.

The hollowing out of New Zealand’s two largest parties was made considerably worse by the internal political impact of MMP. The Party List more-or-less guarantees ideological conformity and political docility. Getting along by going along has, accordingly, become the norm. Standing out from the crowd (as opposed to standing alongside it) when the Party List is being drawn up is not a winning strategy.

Nothing argues for unreliability more strongly in either major party than the serious expression of doubts about the wisdom of persisting with the neoliberal experiment. That a succession of global and domestic crises has exposed the economic, social, and moral failures of neoliberalism may be no more than the truth, but on the not unreasonable grounds that acknowledging these failures would likely bring the entire neoliberal regime crashing down, it remains unsayable.

Is it any wonder that the latest batch of opinion polls shows the combined support for the two major parties falling to a risible 59 percent of the electorate? National and Labour both remain tightly tethered to the economic assumptions of the past 40 years.

In Labour’s case, that allegiance made it necessary for Prime Minister Chris Hipkins to countermand the carefully nurtured plan of his Finance Minister and Revenue Minister. Grant Robertson and David Parker had jointly developed a fiscal strategy that would have shunted Labour off the neoliberal track so dramatically that it just might have gone on to win the 2023 general election.

Hipkins’ “Captain’s Call” cancelling the Robertson/Parker plan confirmed that winning an election, and receiving the public and private cooperation needed to govern effectively for the next three years, are two very different things. As Helen Clark and Michael Cullen discovered in the winter of 2000, deviating even slightly from the neoliberal script is a strategy fraught with political danger.

Not that the voters have much sympathy for the leaders of National and Labour. To many voters the two largest parties seem oblivious to the day-to-day difficulties experienced by ordinary New Zealanders. The political leadership’s attention remains fixed upon the needs of the neoliberal system: deregulation; fiscal shrinkage; wage restraint; privatisation.

Where once National and Labour competed to present the most useful improvements to the state’s portfolio of public services, they are now content to spar with one another over who is more deserving of the experts’ praise for colouring inside the lines of acceptable economic policy.

No wonder the United States’ term “the uniparty” is catching on in New Zealand. No wonder Qiulae Wong’s Opportunity party has soared to 8 percent in the latest 1News-Verian Poll.

Equally unsurprising, however, has been the response of the news media to Opportunity’s declared intention to resurrect New Zealand’s historical flair for transformational change.

To see the Q+A programme’s presenter, Jack Tame, do his best to overwhelm Wong with a fusillade of forensic fiscal questions was to witness the almost reflexive response of those raised entirely within the neoliberal system to any kind of innovation that does not fall within the thick black lines of economic orthodoxy.

The takeaway message was very clear: experimentation of any kind (other than the great and unmandated experiments of the late-1980s and early-1990s) is dangerous; no good can come of it; better by far to adhere to the principles of economic rationalism and sound political management.

If nobody moves, then nobody, or at least nobody in the top one percent of income earners, is going to get hurt.


*Chris Trotter has been writing and commenting professionally about New Zealand politics for more than 30 years. He writes a weekly column for interest.co.nz. His work may also be found at http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com.

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61 Comments

To see the Q+A programme’s presenter, Jack Tame, do his best to overwhelm Wong with a fusillade of forensic fiscal questions was to witness the almost reflexive response of those raised entirely within the neoliberal system to any kind of innovation that does not fall within the thick black lines of economic orthodoxy.

My feelings exactly. No disrespect to Tame at all, but he's dreadfully predictable. Cookie cutter question then probe.  

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A very overdue & necessary TOP reality check, perhaps the first by the TOP fangirls in the MSM. It shouldn't be the last.

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I like Tame, treats left and right the same and makes some very good arguments. It was a good point that recent migrants get a bit screwed. 

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even more so returning kiwi expats, like why come back?

 

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He grilled Goldsmith too but the difference was that Q stayed composed throughout the whole interview and Goldsmith resorted to throwing his toys and stating “so what!”as an answer. Can we just remember how pathetic it is that the leader of this government is too scared to even entertain an interview with Jack Take for fear of looking even more out of touch than he already is.

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Jack and his Q+A research team specializes in "what aboutism" and "gotcha" questions. Especially focusing on edge case examples rather than questions which would examine the core of a policy proposal. This is good at exposing policy flaws at the detailed design and implementation stages of policy delivery. But that sort of questioning is hopeless at investigating policies at the earlier conceptual development stage. 

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"But that sort of questioning is hopeless at investigating policies at the earlier conceptual development stage. " I wish I had queried TOP at the early stages of their land tax policy carried out initially by Gareth Morgan and later by Geoff Simmons, a former party president, some 10 or more years ago.  But it's not too late and I'm very skeptical of how they arrived at their land value for the whole of NZ and when it was calculated. It may have been updated since first calculated. I'm sure there are economists who are good with numbers but I'm far too skeptical to take TOP's land value number at face value, especially if they are calculated by a politically inclined economist.

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But does it really matter?  The way I look at it, Milton Friedman said LVT was the best of the worst taxes (meaning he wasn't in favour of taxes per se but LV was the most equitable and easy to administer).

So, anything that gets us to LVT as a tax in the basket of taxes - has to be good to my mind.

I'd hope we could reduce GST once we figured out how to implement LVT in the most appropriate way.  GST is very regressive - and we rely on it far too much to my mind.

 

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I'm a little open to LVT but not by TOP with all their other negative policies for me.

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With more youth leaving and more older workers retiring, how does  NZ make it all work, especially with a current deficit and servicing the $100b of debt the last govt wasted. No one has a remotely credible tax policy, except TOP with its tax base change.

If anyone else has a credible play, please summarize it.

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Do you really think State theft of private assets is credible tax policy?

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So your saying ever greater thieft of the ever decreasing worker take home pay  is preferable.... yeah right. 

Seriously what is a feasible alternative...?

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Income tax and GST easily meet the the same definition.

FIF is probably the strongest parallel where we already do pretty much exactly this.

Not much of a stretch for the state to assume that other assets, like land, should return 5% of its value every year and apply income tax to it.

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Yep housing is under taxed regardless of whether it's the family home or investment. Time for a change. 

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How is it theft? By that logic council rates are theft. A tax on land whilst receiving a UBI just shifts the tax burden from the worker to land which disincentives land banking and speculation. 

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"The growing feeling that New Zealand politics had entered a period of institutionalised bad faith was reinforced by the “Tina doctrine”. (Tina standing for “there is no alternative”.)"

Chris, please tell us all what the alternative was?

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Competitive asset sales?

Better contracts on sale so as to prevent asset stripping?

Slower pace to neoliberal reforms as per Australia?

Cleverly targeted subsidies, particularly for our agricultural sector?

Guaranteed re-training for those in middle age, in particular, made redundant by factory closures?

Kindness and compassion, and far wiser management throughout the transition.

It was a time when any number of key politicians took pride in their slash and burn approach.  They become more interested in the prospect of overseas speaking tours than the general population sent reeling from the swiftness of the changes.  And they made a lot of their buddies in the "elite set" multi-millionaires - which had benefits for them as well.

 

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So, apparently there was no alternative however you'd prefer it was delivered "kinder".

I was there at the time & it was better by far to rip off the NZInc bandaid quickly. If not the pain would have continued indefinitely 

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Selfishness always, then? 

Have you offspring? 

Offspring of offspring? 

Ever ask them what they think about the future they won't have? 

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So, apparently there was no alternative

Can you not read Kate's message, or are you conveniently blinded by the reality of having to give the following generations any form of chance?

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You've been quiet for a while. "Better contracts on sale so as to prevent asset stripping?" A bit of the reverse. Paying a premium on assets after they have been stripped. Kiwi rail comes to mind. I believe there are rare cases where the N word should be used. Kiwi Rail is one of those and Winstons' first suggested purchase of BNZ would be another case. Unfortunately there are likely to be trade agreements and Stock Exchange rules that prevent this. So in the case of BNZ a grossly inflated price would be paid to return into the hands of NZ. A 51% owned govt owned at best or an SOE. Then swallowing up KiwiBank.

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'If nobody moves, then nobody, or at least nobody in the top one percent of income earners, is going to get hurt' sums up the status quo. Include the NACT, NZF and Labour members of parliament in this groups thinking. Many will be tossed out at the next election and so they should be.

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the top 1 percent contribute more income tax  than the entire bottom half of taxpayers.

Who do you think will get hurt?

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Yes, duh. Arising from the ever increasing income inequality across society.

Get a brain.

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Kate, it's disappointing to see you too resort to ad hominem abuse with people who don't see / agree the world the same way you do.

You'd probably be offended to be called a Marxist however thats exactly what you're espousing with no thought as to the probability that people who earn more income have special talents & work both harder & smarter.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." K Marx

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Google Gemini ai has an angle on this as below-

Yes, there is a very striking direct parallel in the Book of Acts

, which contains both halves of that exact philosophy. [1, 2]

The early Christian community practiced a form of voluntary communal ownership where resources were pooled and redistributed based entirely on personal need and individual capacity. [3, 4]

The Two Parallel Verses

1. "To each according to his needs"

The second half of the slogan appears almost word-for-word in Acts 4:34–35

, describing the Jerusalem church:

"For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need

."



(A similar phrase also appears in Acts 2:45

: "...and distributed the proceeds to all, as any had need

.")

[5, 6]

2. "From each according to his ability"

The first half of the slogan is mirrored later in Acts 11:29

, when a famine hits the region and the believers organize a relief effort: [7, 8]

"Then the disciples, every man according to his ability

, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea."

[9]

Key Structural Differences

While the phrasing is remarkably similar, historians and theologians point out a few major differences between the system in Acts and Marxist theory:

  • Voluntary vs. State-Enforced:

    The communal sharing in Acts was completely voluntary and motivated by religious devotion, not enforced by state authority. In Acts 5:4, the Apostle Peter explicitly tells a member that their property belonged to them before it was sold, and the money was theirs to use as they wished. [10, 11, 12, 13]

  • Community vs. Global Scale:

    The practice in Acts was localized within the early church network. Marx envisioned a global economic system that would completely restructure the state and eliminate private property entirely. [4, 14, 15]

  • Ultimate Goal:

    The early Christians pooled resources to care for spiritual brothers and sisters during a time of immediate crisis and persecution. Marx’s ultimate goal was a material post-scarcity society achieved through historical economic development. [4, 14]

If you would like to explore this further, I can generate an interactive quiz

about the history of the Book of Acts and early Christian communal practices. Would you like to try it?

 

[1] https://www.reddit.com

[2] https://morefullyalive.substack.com

[3] https://www.reddit.com

[4] https://www.investopedia.com

[5] https://www.biblegateway.com

[6] https://redeemerrva.org

[7] https://www.biblestudytools.com

[8] https://simplybible.com

[9] https://www.facebook.com

[10] https://www.facebook.com

[11] https://trentonmonitor.com

[12] https://www.reddit.com

[13] https://westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com

[14] https://www.youtube.com

[15] https://biblehub.com

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people who earn more income have special talents & work both harder & smarter.

Now that's laughable.

Forget the brain - just learn to use AI:

 

  • Forbes’ 2025 billionaire list: about one-third of the 3,028 billionaires had inherited at least a significant part of their fortune. FForbes
  • In 2024, Forbes calculated 934 of 2,781 billionaires (33.6%) as having inherited a substantial portion of their wealth. FForbes

And my guess is you'll find that percentage even higher (much higher) for millionaires.  But, rather than me prove that by further AI interrogation - you have a go yourself.

 

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Rentiers contribute nothing. 

A fact they have trouble understanding...

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When at the bottom you have little or nothing to loose. You are well fed in prison.

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I see this circulating a lot of late by some hell bent on defending the so called 1%, however it's not really the flex intended - just pointing out the obvious that the top incomes are so many magnitudes more than the majority.

The block of cheese still costs the same for all though

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I’ll get “hurt” to the tune of $150/week if TOP introduced their tax reform but I can see the bigger picture and are willing to take that hit for the betterment of the nation. National stating that they are going to stick to the status quo and expecting a different result is economic mismanagement. 

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This is an old right wing bait and switch argument. It tries to trick the reader into thinking that income tax is all tax. Yet in NZ GST is a significant tax which disproportionately hits low income earners harder because they save less and take less overseas holidays. 

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And the lower income cohort spends a greater percentage of their income on necessities where gst component cannot be avoided. Therefore carry a greater gst burden relative to total earnings than the high income cohort?

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I haven't commented in a long time, but see variations on this "the rich pay all the taxes" falsehood repeated so often I feel the need to share this: 

https://www.ird.govt.nz/-/media/project/ir/home/documents/about-us/high…

High income earners are used as an emotive way of distracting from the real discussion of how the wealthy pay much lower taxation than salary & wage earners. IRD investigated this, and confirmed "the effective tax rate paid by middle income New Zealanders is at least double that paid by the wealthier New Zealanders" 

 

 

 

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We've got household net *financial* worth at around 340% of GDP - concentrated in the holdings of the top few per cent. Housing adds an additional 300% of GDP or so - obviously more widely distributed but by no means equal!

Our whole economy is now geared towards making sure that the wealthy get a decent return on their wealth. A 'reasonable' 6% return on household financial wealth alone is around 20% of GDP - that's $88bn. While the economy has to generate that increase as a surplus to keep the top few per cent rentiers dining out, our cost of living is going to stay high.

It is time for a change. People do not need that much money - it is poisoning society.  

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I thought we were north of 340% just on residential housing. Need to update my numbers. 

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The Opportunity tax calculator is interesting. I thought our household would be worse off as we live in Auckland so land value is high, but it turns out we'd be 8k better off. I think they will actually get my vote which I am surprised to say. Although it seems a bit unfair to me that people that live in the cities end up having to pay more tax as well as their big mortgage.  https://www.opportunity.org.nz/tax-reset-calculator-2026 

Funny that the right are trying to make Opportunity look scary, but many would say ACTs tax policy is more scary, yet they have never implemented any of it in all these years. 

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There was much speculation that the present coalition would not last full term. Coalition of chaos etc. But it virtually has done so.However if the Opportunity party is going to be needed in a coalition of either hue, would suggest that will be a much more unlikely prospect of coalition longevity . The incumbent left side of the proposition looks decidedly rocky on its own. The election in November has real potential to create instability in government that the nation can ill afford. A coalition of chaos would be an understatement indeed. The electorate needs to think seriously about what it wishes for 

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Agree that a 4 way coalition doesn't sound great either left or right. Opportunity / labour / green might be OK if they don't need Maori party. 

The big 2 only have themselves to blame. 

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I cannot wait until the Greens ban artificial Fertilizer....    

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Much like NZF saying they’d restore the refinery,  it’s just slop for the base which would be dropped immediately in any coalition agreement.

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There's plenty of slop from all parties. Not easy to discern which of the slop will be dropped. What about TOP's voting age and criminal age? Also their co-governance and no land tax for Maori. Is that not typical of any political party that will have something to attract a few thousand voters but be dropped just to get into coalition, knowing that they won't have a dog's chance of ever being able to implement them unless they are the ruling party. For me there is more wrong with their policies than right..

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If top get 8% then it doesn't have to be 4way

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Can we really afford the current "stability"?

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"If nobody moves, then nobody, or at least nobody in the top one percent of income earners, is going to get hurt."



...and...



"The political leadership’s attention remains fixed upon the needs of the neoliberal system: deregulation; fiscal shrinkage; wage restraint; privatisation."



Spot on Mr Trotter - below is a C&P of my 2 cents written 3 days ago...

 

DID A NEW KINGMAKER JUST HIT TOWN?

The latest TV1 Verian poll (for what it's worth) shows that current percentages translate to The Opportunities Party winning 9 Parliamentary seats.

The score cards...

THE "RIGHT" - 57 SEATS

Nats 36

Act 11

NZF 10

THE "LEFT" - 59 Seats

Labour 38

Greens 15

Partly Maori 6

"KINGMAKER' TOP - 9 seats

Grand total 125 seats

Which got me to thinking... and ranting...

A CLOSE LOOK AT THE NEW KINGMAKER

To me, TOP is merely a misnamed nothing-burger whose flagship policies utterly fail to address NZ's underlying economic structural problems.

In essence, all they are doing is proposing the rearranging of the tax chairs on the fiat Titanic.

TOP, as do all the incumBENT parties, misses the impending global systemic monetary collapse, which would require moving past tax reform entirely, and focusing instead on sovereign currency creation, and localised hard-asset economic productivity.

In the last week or so I crunched the NZ NIIP numbers and arrived at a mind-numbing per taxpayer liability of $235,000 per person - this highlights our economy's reliance on foreign capital, structural current account deficits, and the debt burden that constantly debilitates our entire economy.

TOP policies do nothing to address NZ's debt-doom-loop, because they are entirely fiat-dominated and rely on traditional GDP metrics, which obfuscate the underlying structural train-wreck.

As do all the other parties, they utterly ignore the private bank debt-based money creation system which diverts billions of dollars worth of capital out of the domestic economy, and into the coffers of global private banking monopolies in the form of unearned economic rent.

When measuring economic output against a hard benchmark like gold, rather than fiat tokens, our currency purchasing power and productivity are both shrinking... dramatically. The "growth" figures are a complete illusion. 

As nations like China and Russia increasingly build out alternative settlement mechanisms* and accumulation strategies for physical gold and other hard assets, in their reserve asset portfolios, Western fiat-reliant nations will face increasingly severe headwinds.



*(I recently guest wrote an article on this massive initiative for a LatAm based geopolitical/think-tank blog - linked below)



https://sovereignista.com/2026/08/15/the-dogs-bark-as-the-multipolar-ju…

For a small isolated, dramatically net-debtor nation like NZ, the looming global hard asset revaluation will cause its fiat currency to sharply lose purchasing power against real-world commodities, making foreign debt-servicing increasingly harder.

When, not if, the systemic monetary reset occurs and forces real-asset price discovery, the monetary illusion supporting NZ's balance sheet will collapse.

A $235,000 liability per tax-payer cannot be sustained if global capital markets demand repayment in hard-asset terms or a sharply devalued NZD.

This reality would trigger a rapid acceleration of the debt-doom-loop. The state would be forced into severe austerity, asset sales, or structural defaults on public infrastructure and entitlements. Traditional tax policy tweaks become completely irrelevant in this scenario.

TOP's policies propose mere band-aids on a fundamentally flawed monetary system. As such the "Opportunity" label is a complete misrepresentation of their nothing-burger policies.

The fact that the latest polls are currently flagging them as the looming election's "kingmaker", only serves to highlight just how desperate the huge disenfranchised voter cohort has become.

 

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That's a scary number. I just checked with AI as I thought you must be wrong, it got $117k per person, so your per taxpayer number sounds like it's in the ballpark. 

It feels like we've spent the good years building up debt instead of savings. And now without population growth and an ageing population we're going to need debt but we're already maxed out. We needed to save for a rainy day but instead we just partied. 

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Two things in the mid 1980s. Firstly the then trading banks were allowed to enter into residential housing financing. That went straight into open slather lending and propelled property into being in the big business bracket of today,  rather than previous governments being careful to differentiate between homeownership and otherwise. Secondly credit cards became available full scale. Those two elements in themselves were profound and radical developments. People were invited to view their home equity as being spending power and were encouraged to borrow to do so.  We have a problem identity in our extended family who insists because the house that was bought 25 years ago for $155,000 is now worth $650,000 that means $500,000 is there to be spent. As it is there is  now a $210,000 mortgage on the property which is 40% more than the purchase price. It is that sort of thick mentality, and the easy access to funds to feed,  it that is directly responsible for the unsustainable debt distortion in our society today.

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Yes, Jimbo - generally that percentage of taxpayers to the total population is in the low 40's - and so the $117k number you found could translate to the average taxpayer NIIP liability position being closer to $290k than my number of $235k.



Whatever it is the figure amounts to a debilitating burden for our real economy - one best not mentioned, and so instead the eCONomists dwell on our relatively low public debt figure, which hides the problem long enough that most of us won't flick up as to what is really happening until the entire Western-centric fiat-Ponzi implodes.



Another problem is that the public can be confused by currencies, especially reserve/default currencies like the USD actually "failing upwards"



- this is another situation where many people can be confused because a country's economy can be struggling terribly, and utterly mismanaged, even while its currency is still increasing in value.



When that country raises interest rates, ostensibly because of tackling inflation, these higher rates attract investors who buy the currency to invest in bonds, and drive up the currency value despite the economic pain.



At the same time investors tend to panic and pull money out of what they see as risky assets and dump it into the so-called "safe-haven" currencies, like the USD and the Swiss Franc, even when these default currencies are performing badly, or maybe even were the root cause of the economic downturn in the first place.



The stronger dollar makes imports cheaper, helping to accidentally lower the inflation metric, again making the currency look healthier than it really is. At the same time the stronger dollar hurts the exporting sector of the economy, and further worsens economic stagnation.



Also, the higher interest rates skyrocket government and all other debt, leading to yet more economic damage. At this point the financial markets decouple from reality and some of the clever Wall Street and currency traders clean-up, whilst citizens face layoffs and high living costs.



And so the cycle accelerates while the federal deficit explodes even higher, and eventually the entire bond market too.  

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A very interesting article, and one that could have been written about UK politics, where in the 2024 election the main parties - Labour & Tories - secured less than 60% of the vote,  Small parties secured 30% - a record share. 

Why is this?  The voters were fed up with the Tories, whom in their minds became labour Lite (they oversaw: state expansion, more tax, high immigration numbers, Net Zero costs etc), but did not trust Labour. Labour won massively, but on only 33% of the vote - the UK does not have the NZ system of voting.

Many now see Labour and the Tories as 'the Uniparty'.

As for the neoliberal order, indeed, its end has been a real challenge, as it raises the question - what replaces it?  On the one side we have - we must stick with a sort of neoliberal order, fiscal rules etc, on the other we have - let's have more state involvement/tax etc.  I imagine that pertinent to both we have the unspoken - whatever is pursued can house prices keep rising!

Way back, the New Deal of the USA sold the idea that a strong state could control and help us along, it could manage the capitalist economy, and provide economic growth.  It did that for a while across the world.  As that started to fail, so the neoliberal order emerged, and it's mantra was that free markets could unleash capitalism from state control, spread prosperity and freedom.  Aided by a vast expansion of debt, it worked for a while, and many liked it.....especially as their house value rose!  It is now over though, but, what replaces it?

The neoliberal project was being thought up and work on, mainly in the US and UK (1960s -1970) way before it entered the political arena, and so they were ready to take the reigns.

The problem now is - there does not seem to be any such new project - left or right - with clear ideas and methods of implementation, in sight.

I do not claim to have answers.

 

 

 

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If you read this article, Marcus, it explains the root cause.



IOWs who creates ~98% of MS as a debt instrument, and then gets to charge the economy hundreds of billions of dollars in unearned economic rent in the process?



https://www.facebook.com/groups/sovereigncredit.nz/posts/15458955331622…



The mechanics are very straight forward, however the way to broker it politically not nearly so much - meaning that the entire debt-based system will have to crash and burn before society demands the fundamental reform required to turn NZ into the wealthy society it should have been all along.

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I will have a look over that, thank you.

On the TOP tax universal basic income policies, I am just starting to look at them, and I wonder, how many will be put off from returning to NZ, or going, when UBI only kicks in after five years, while I assume one would be paying tax via the new tax rates from day 1, were they to be implemented.

Meanwhile, what incentives does UBI create?  Also I see from the interview that TOP have not undertaken any wealth flight modelling.  Labour in the UK did the same, put taxes up, changed pension and inheritance tax, and wealth has started to fly out as a result.

I see that NZ household debt now equates to around 90% of GDP, up from 30% in 1990.  In the UK it rose from around 50% in 1990 and is presently around 65%.

We live in interesting times.

 

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Meanwhile, what incentives does UBI create? A very expensive and complicated way to make people feel a little happier with OPM?

"From January 2017 until December 2018, 2,000 unemployed Finns got a monthly flat payment of €560 (£490; $634).

The aim was to see if a guaranteed safety net would help people find jobs, and support them if they had to take insecure gig economy work.

While employment levels did not improve, participants said they felt happier and less stressed.

...Although it's enjoying a resurgence in popularity, the idea isn't new. In fact, it was first described in Sir Thomas More's Utopia, published in 1516 - a full 503 years ago. "

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47169549

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/09/22/552850245/episode-796-the…

 

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Wealth flight is an exaggerated scare tactic. People still want to live here.

All those AIP applicants aren't lining up to come here just because we have favourable tax settings or our apparent "open for business" sign

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Labour in the UK said that wealth flight would not really transpire as a result of their policies.  They raised tax and the number of wealthy (assets above £2-3 million I believe)  leaving the UK increased, in 2024 and 2025, to around 16,000.  

Where we used to live my accountant said that for the first time ever he had more than five clients selling up and leaving.  Estate agents report the same.  I asked why - wealth protection/tax increases.

The thing about the TOP tax policies - if you are resident and return, you have to wait five years before you can claim the UBI, meanwhile you pay the higher tax rates, so you will be worse off.  The same applies to new residents.  It will serve as a big disincentive to moving there. 

Your income tax regime is actually high in the low to mid range: there is no tax free allowance (NZ $24,000 in the UK, about NZ S10,000 across Europe), while living expenses (esp food and energy) are high compared to say the UK and Europe (% of income).  

I myself fell that a good start would be the introduction of a tax free allowance, thus improving the incentive to work.  Having lived in NZ it does grate that you pay tax from the first $.

The pull of NZ is, lifestyle.  The scenery.  One knows one will not be better off living there.

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if you are resident and return, you have to wait five years before you can claim the UBI

 This is the same for claiming the pension currently however, and we all can see the writing on the wall for pension reform int he coming 5 years or so by means of necessity. i suspect it will tie in with future means tested super similar to Australia.

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Maybe it's that the electorate is exhausted with being subject to much wider experimentation than the purely economic, with policies that seem to be not-so-closet social engineering and look more moored to special interest group desires than data.

And for those of us interested, the only way we'll find out about the details of policy is if someone like Jack Tame publicly asks the questions, as the party websites are 'detail lite'.

Listening to the politicians' replies to detailed inquiry makes it plain who does and doesn't understand what they're promoting - it seems mostly the latter. 

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There is quite a bit of detail on the Oppotunity website, it’s how Jimbo did his calcs. 

 

In my view, when Labour gave up on experimentation, a few electoral cycles later, National, famously the party to keep things the same, well, they were exposed as the bunch of mediocre people that they have become.  My question at National party sessions was “could a young John Key have the success he had in today’s environment “.   Social mobility has been really worked over in recent times.  We need to make changes, primarily to trying to get to an informed consensus style of decision making with a long term horizon.   How can we permit Winnie to vote in cabinet for the ferries, and then vote in the next cabinet to vote to cancel?   

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Our system has become based around expedient, short term transactions to please the special interest groups who run the vastly shrunken political parties - so you get behaviour like Peters' as there are no consequences when the balance of power is held.

That fall in membership has self-selected for those with enthusiasm, or career aspirations, that makes them in to zealots - which is why we see some policy driven more by belief than data.

I'd be keen to see something that de-politicises running the country - citizen's assemblies, so long as they were selected by sortition and couldn't be suborned by the party enthusiasts, or even sortition to select politicians directly. That last would also require a de-politicised public service for support.

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They will happen.

Because the global System is faltering, and with it the NZ one. Growth is essentially over - indeed it has required much more than $1 of debt, to 'produce' $1 of GDP, or at least 2 decades. A reconciliation is inevitable. 

 

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In my view, when Labour gave up on experimentation, a few electoral cycles later, National, famously the party to keep things the same, well, they were exposed as the bunch of mediocre people that they have become.

Interesting take. I see it more form the angle that they shifted from policy and real reform in considering the inhabitants of the country, to a greater focus on the self, status and power. For example we can see the level of wealth attained by Jacinda Ardern by harnessing the image she built in her tenure in politics, and continues to do so. Then we have Mr Luxon, who cashed in on capital gains from some of his properties shortly after the bright line was brought back to 2 years, and seems hellbent on fast tracking projects that benefit his business friends, likely to affirm some back alley promises of job offers for him after his time in politics is brought to a close by the voting public.

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Just read a book by Ray Dalio, “How countries go broke”. Quite interesting when you look back in history and see the same patterns and where we are post 1945 new world order.

In reality we are going to have to spend less and tax more. The problem is no one wants both at the same time - one group want to spend less and the other tax more.

Alongside the expectations that have changed over the years - housing, travel, medical care, choice option explosions for almost anything the ability, financial, belief we are all entitled to things and climate change etc, to find a path forward will make it very hard in the future 

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