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Level 4 lockdown to be extended until at least 11:59pm on Tuesday, August 31 for Auckland and Friday, August 27 for the rest of the country; Parliament won't sit this week

Level 4 lockdown to be extended until at least 11:59pm on Tuesday, August 31 for Auckland and Friday, August 27 for the rest of the country; Parliament won't sit this week

LAST UPDATED AT 6:14PM

Level 4 lockdown will be extended until at least Tuesday, August 31 for Auckland, and Friday, August 27 for the rest of New Zealand.

Cabinet made the decision on Monday.

Auckland's alert level will be reviewed on Monday. The rest of the country's settings will be reviewed on Friday. 

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said more certainty around the Covid-19 situation was required before moving down alert levels.

The decision follows 35 new cases of Covid-19 being reported on Monday, bringing the total number of cases in the community up to 107. Eight cases are in Wellington. The rest are in Auckland. 

Ardern said an issue is that contacts of positive Covid-19 cases are spread around the country.

Over 100 of the 14,000 contacts identified are in the South Island. Below is a map from the Ministry of Health that shows where these contacts are. Click on the magnifying glass to zoom in.

What's more, Ardern said almost 8000 people travelled from Auckland to their homes in other parts of the country after the lockdown came into force. So we've only had 72 hours where people have stayed put nationwide.

Ardern said the edges of the outbreak haven't been defined, nor the peak reached. 

She said early estimates were that the average number of people that cases in the community cluster are passing Covid-19 onto is six or higher. This number needs to be less than one for the for virus to be stamped out.

“So we have some way to go yet,” Ardern said.

Looking further at the 14,000 contacts, just over half have been contacted. Just over 300 are "very" close contacts. There are 338 locations are interest.

Ardern noted the Ministry of Health was taking a conservative approach to identifying contacts. In other words, all attendees at a church service or awards night attended by an infected person are considered contacts.

Director-General of Health Ashley Bloomfield said seven people are in hospital with Covid-19. The only person in intensive care is someone from Fiji, who isn't part of the community cluster.

Ardern believed only 11 of the 107 people in the community cluster had received a vaccination. She the cohort of infected people was relatively young. 

She said eliminating Covid-19 remains the strategy.

Parliament suspended

Cabinet has decided Parliament won’t sit this week, as planned before the outbreak. It will resume on Tuesday, August 31. 

Select committee meetings, which are chaired by Labour MPs, will take place virtually and be televised on Parliament TV.

Finance Minister Grant Robertson, Minister for Covid-19 Response Chris Hipkins, Transport Minister Michael Wood, Minister for Social Development and Employment Carmel Sepuloni, and Police Minister Poto Williams will appear before various committee this week.

However, the Epidemic Response Committee, chaired by the Opposition Leader, won’t be stood up again.

During last year's lockdown, government ministers and various subject experts appeared before this committee for questioning. Meetings were broadcast. 

National wants this committee to be stood up again. It supports Parliament being suspended for one week only. 

ACT wants the Epidemic Response Committee to be brought back at the very least. 

Both parties are unhappy with the current set-up and are calling for more accountability. 

Below are copies of press releases related to this situation.

Leader of the House Chris Hipkins

“The Director-General of Health has advised, and Cabinet has agreed, that it is not advisable for MPs to participate in a large indoor gathering for an extended period of time, or travel inter-regionally to do so, while the COVID-19 risk for New Zealand remains high.

“As a result, the Government has consulted leaders of the other parties and the Speaker has been informed that the next sitting of the House has been postponed until Tuesday 31 August. This will be reviewed on Thursday.

“In making this decision, Cabinet was very mindful of the need for ongoing democratic scrutiny. Opposition and backbench MPs should still have the opportunity to question the Government in the absence of House sittings.

“As such, Ministers and senior government officials will be making themselves available to appear before virtual select committees over the coming week. Those meetings will be televised on Parliament TV and we expect opposition members to have the bulk of the allotted time to ask questions.

“I have worked with other parties to agree a schedule of meetings.

“I can confirm the Minister of Finance will be available to appear before the Finance and Expenditure Committee tomorrow morning, and the Minster for COVID-19 Response will appear before the Health Committee on Tuesday and Wednesday afternoon.”

In addition, relevant ministers will appear before the Social Services, Transport and Justice committees this week, as follows. 

Tuesday:

  • 10.30am – Finance and Expenditure (Hon Robertson & officials)
  • 2.30pm – Health (Hon Hipkins & Health officials)

Wednesday:

  • 10am – Transport & Infrastructure (Hon Wood & Officials)
  • 11am – Social Services (Hon Sepuloni & Officials)
  • 2.30pm – Health (Hon Hipkins and MIQ/Border officials)

Thursday:

  • 10am – Justice (Hon Williams & Police)
  • 11am – TBC
  • 2.30pm – Health (Prof Skegg, other external experts)

National Party

The Prime Minister has advised me that she is unilaterally suspending parliament, Leader of the Opposition Judith Collins says.

“I have expressed that a one week suspension of Parliament is all the National Party will support. However, the Prime Minister has indicated that she expects it will continue longer than that.

“At a time when New Zealanders have the harshest lockdown in the world and have lost our freedoms because of the Government’s failure to vaccinate and secure the border, this move by Jacinda Ardern is unfathomable.

“Look around the world and you will see parliaments managing to continue to function despite challenging circumstances. In the UK they operated virtually for almost a year.

“There are important questions that need to be asked as to how Delta got into New Zealand. Suspending Parliament means the Government avoids this scrutiny.

“As Leader of the Opposition I will be reaching out to the ACT and Māori Parties to establish how best we can prevent this shut down of democracy at the very moment we need it the most.

“Additionally, Labour have resisted all calls for the recommencement of the Epidemic Response Committee. Jacinda Ardern clearly thinks that her actions and the actions of her Government should be beyond reproach and is moving to ensure that is the case.

“This is unacceptable and an overreach of power. It leaves New Zealanders with no ability to demand accountability and transparency from the Government.

“Clearly, despite her assurances to govern for all New Zealanders, Jacinda Ardern is unwilling to be accountable to them.

“The National Party will lead the Opposition to demand democracy is retained during this time of crisis. New Zealand cannot and will not become a one-party dictatorship.”

ACT

“Jacinda Ardern is happy to have a socially distanced 1pm stand up with a dozen journalists in a room but not a democratic parliament with elected representatives asking her questions,” says ACT Leader David Seymour.

“Ardern called me this afternoon to say she has decided that Parliament should not sit this week.

“At the very least the Epidemic Response Committee should have been brought back.

“The suggestion that Select Committees with a Labour majority, which have been notorious for obstructing questioning are a substitute for Parliament would not be taken seriously at any other time.

“Ardern’s objection that inter-regional travel is not justifiable is extraordinary. The planes are still flying to Wellington with people on them, Ardern just doesn’t think those people should include Opposition politicians.

“In the previous Level 4 lockdown, all parties agreed to closing Parliament in return for an Opposition-led Epidemic Response Committee, this time there will be even less accountability.

“This decision to close Parliament is totally different from all parties agreeing, it is dictated by Jacinda Ardern alone.”

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323 Comments

The Delta Variant has given this Government’s vaccine rollout the middle finger!

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Read it like a book. Fri 27th South Island to level 3 which is stuff all different but allows the govt to display how kind and considerate they are in return for us having to suffer the consequences of their & MoH incompetence. The government would not admit NZ’s vaccination was insufficiently progressed to provide enough protection to enough citizens from the potential of Delta. But when Scott Morrison brushed off our Prime Minister and put her on the mat, they were then forced to open the bubble otherwise risk their precious political popularity. And that’s why we are locked in our homes folks, pity the over cautious approach of today wasn’t to the fore back then.

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We must have two parallel but separate Aotearoas - you in one, me in the other.

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No the decision affects all of us as a nation as you should well know. What areas are in what zone makes no difference. Each one has to cope as it might stand each day. But as expected someone such as you , with a partisan agenda, just has to descend into a them and us argument.

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Yes, feel free to mis-read my comment.

I was merely pointing out that your version of what is happening here is very different to your fevered delusions.

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You were merely being subjective, but yes you are totally free to be so. Keep the party flying.

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It has not. We are currently giving it the middle finger

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Hope you are right! There were far too many NZrs unprotected by vaccination when it arrived and still are.

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Lets Unite and vote them out in two years...how about the media ask the question..Jacinda how is the country going to afford this...how much is the tax going to go up Jacinda..how are schools going to cope, how are you going to help small business, how are you helping mental health, Jacinda what is your plan..just locking down and hope the virus will mutate itself out of existence..it won't.

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answer "Don't worry....we are totally focused on the team of 5 million propping up the housing market....... next question"

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lol and vote for who? Judith would have had us flooded with infected foreign slave workers and Aussie ski tourists on day 1 just to pander to her paymasters.

You complain about future tax rises and then complain that govt hasn’t bought enough vaccine. Which is it to be - funded health services or steady taxes to keep the whiners happy? Same story in every other sector - water, roads, education, local govt.

You can’t have European-style public services with American levels of taxation.

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And you can't have European levels of public service in a country where any criticism of the vast, staggering failures to deliver on key policies is met with "BUT JUDITH BAD!!!". How's Kiwibuild/Light Rail/Mental Health/ working out for us?

You, me and everyone else already know that Judith won't be the leader come next election. So what will the excuse be then?

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It won't matter who leads the Nats or ACT, it won't alter the fact we need to get away from the sorts of policies they will adhere to, it's hard enough without them.

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Perhaps the country would be better off if people spent less time holding the opposition to the standards they won't hold the actual, in-power government to.

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Latest polling is very in favour of this lockdown: https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/23-08-2021/exclusive-poll-resounding-…

72% strongly support the lockdown, 12% support = 84%. Only 7% strongly oppose.
61% think government's overall response to COVID is excellent, 18% think good = 79%. Only 7% think it's terrible.
16% think National Party's overall response to COVID is excellent, 13% think good = 29%. A slightly lower 27% think it's terrible.

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Ask people who if they feel the government could have done more on vaccinations.

It's easy to support the lockdown once you don't really have a choice about it. Asking whether it's a mess of our own making is a different question altogether.

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Ask people who if they feel the government could have done more on vaccinations.

I'm sure people took that into account when they rated the overall accomplishment of the government, and if the government had done better then their "excellent" result might be 70-80% instead of "only" 61%.

I'm sure National is much more concerned about their net -15% disapprove rating on COVID than the government is concerned about their net +67% approval rating.

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Thanks Comrade.

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You can suggest that, but until the question is actually "Could the government have done more to prepare for the Delta variant" then you're just speculating the motives for answering a totally different question, in a manner that supports your personal political preferences.

I really couldn't give a shit about National to be fair - I'm more interested in the response from the party that's actually in power. Some people here seem to think the opposition should be held to a far higher standard than they'd ever dream of holding the people making decisions (or not making them) to. Not hard to imagine why that might be.

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.. I hear you ... as one who constantly criticized Jolly Kid Key when he was in power ... you can only gripe at the current lot ... which is Jacinda Arderns mongel mob ...

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Doesn’t matter that the government spent over 50 billion dollars over the last 1.5 years to accomplish exactly nothing. Doesn’t matter that we have virtually no extra ICU capacity. Doesn’t matter that other countries are returning to normal without masks. All that matters is that INGSOC (1984 style) remains popular.

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You say we have wasted 50 billion then you say other countries are “returning” to normal - yes after 18 months of deaths, lockdowns, spending crap loads of public money, and recession.
We wouldn’t have spent that $50 billion had Covid never happened, but to say there was an option where we didn’t spend that money with Covid seems unlikely. Hospital care isn’t cheap for example, and people locking themselves away does not stimulate an economy.
Money very well spent IMO.

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Doesn’t matter that the government spent over 50 billion dollars over the last 1.5 years to accomplish exactly nothing.

Hmm, lets see. Our deaths per million for COVID is 5.

UK: 1943 deaths per million
US: 1898 deaths per million
Canada: 709 deaths per million
OZ: 38.5 deaths per million

I'd say our money spent has achieved quite a bit more than "exactly nothing", especially when you consider that most of the countries I listed above are still having hundreds to thousands of people dying from COVID every day.

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As usual Pat is on his deadly monologue

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Obviously death comes to us all but what is really important to understand is what age cohort and what co-morbities did those who died with/from Covid have? Not easy to find but this can be inferred from excess mortality Z-scores by age cohort and are available for Europe at least https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/ . I think they put everything in perspective.

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Thanks for the link. It always good to see real facts as opposed to the interpretative ones that seem so prevelant on the MSM.

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I calculate 754 excess deaths per million across the whole of Europe since the beginning of 2020 until now based on the euromomo website, and assuming a European population of 748 million. But okay whatever lets use your numbers Lanthanide.

Here's a question - What would have been the cost per life saved in NZ using the worst case scenario (your UK numbers). I calculate 5 million dollars per life saved! Take into account that a lot of the unfortunate deaths would have been elderly, or had multiple co-morbidities.

So what has the Government really achieved? We're still going to have a wave of covid death just like everyone else. Vaccination will do little to prevent that. They've just delayed the inevitable. So I stand by my statement. 50 billion dollars to achieve exactly nothing!

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You are absolutely right it's well known fact that we are living on an island with no border sharing, epidemics and other man made calamities will hit NZ minimal because we are remote. Not like other countries sharing borders, have no connecting flights with low population of 5 mill, which lead to less movement of people with more control.

If someone pat there back on closing the door (easiest thing) then we cannot say anything. The number of press conferences done by our PM on COVID can be compared with number of words she spoke for housing.
Because every one want to answer easy questions not the tough one & dupe kiwi's with marketing deceit like "team of 5 million".

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Australia is isolated too.

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Whatever

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All Politicians, Bankers and Rental Investment Officianados, will donate all their Profits from pushing Houses to the limit and will gladly fund the Billions needed to keep the Country afloat. No Tax needed. No Social Welfare for Homeless. "Be Kind" to the Family of 5 Million...Luv Jacinda, plus my Cohorts........Naturally.

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I just noticed the comment text areas are expandable - very niice touch.

oh, and yes.. Delta Lockdown.. it can't last forever.

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And fortunately for us, due to locking down quickly, it won't, as is not the case in so much of the rest of the world for the last 18 months

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August 27th and 31st, but which year?

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Crazy stuff this government let it into the country with its "Be Kind" mentality of letting Aussies come home in the middle of a major outbreak and not go through MIQ. They are now going to attempt a "Rolling Lockdown" by just extending and pretending its going to work. The Genie is out of the bottle, this variant cannot be stopped, even a level 4 lockdown can only slow it. The real question the media should be asking is when is the cut off date ? we simply cannot remain in lockdown for months, its not going to happen.

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Suspend parliament. Just bet they argued long and hard with Dr Blomfield trying to dissuade him from the draconian decision they had asked him to make . What’s next habeas corpus? This is serious stuff. This is arrogant abuse of the mandate entrusted to this government and ironically precisely what MMP was voted in by the people of New Zealander to prevent it happening. Collectively all the opposition parties now have to petition the Governor General as the representative of our Head of State and the democracy that is her responsibility to protect on our behalf as her subjects.

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Interesting assertions there to check against the fact that this common city covid came from someone in MIQ.

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... a story I heard was someone with covid was in a room partitioned by a perspex sheeting ... unfortunately the sheeting didn't go all the way to the ceiling ... so , people on the other side got infected .... just a story ... but , ya gotta larf ... 'cos its believable given how much incompetence we've seen to date ...

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This is not a fact. It’s the most probable theory based on the available evidence (according to the powers that be). Those in healthcare know there are rumours about the Australian rugby team.

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We are talking about how we are going to get out of here, but so far we have no guarantee this won't happen again even if we eliminate community transmission. The only way out is vaccination, for which we should have gone early and hard. This lockdown is a direct consequence of a colossal failure in the vaccine rollout which has been delayed for way too long.

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Hey Israel faced Delta with 80% vaccination and guess what? They went into lockdown. Delta always wins. Then Lambda, then... We need to adjust our impossible expectations. But in the meantime, let the social collateral accumulate.

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"We need to adjust our impossible expectations"

So.... stop looking at the charts that show how our vaccine rollout has gone compared with other countries? Coz it kind of looks like it was possible for us to a hell of a lot better than we actually did.

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we adjusted our impossible expectations of Kiwi Build, Light railway and improving mental health -- not to mention reducing child poverty cant see why we can do it and expect to be 100 and something in the world for vaccinations

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I get what you say, but a high vaccination rate still makes a massive difference when facing an outbreak, not just in the level of restrictions that are needed to be imposed but the increased risk of getting seriously sick and collapse the country's ICUs.

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Only 63% of the total population...https://ourworldindata.org/vaccination-israel-impact
37% is a lot of people to keep it spreading

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The point is invalid. Vaccinated people still receive and transmit the virus - the vaccination rate doesn't change the spread of the virus, it just changes the severity of the outcome.

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Bollocks, vaccination reduces (doesn’t prevent) transmissibility. Point in case the aussie who travelled to Wellington with one jab under his belt did not initiate community spread during his weekend getaway a couple of months ago.

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And the older partner of the 58 year old tradie who had had both shots and didn't get covid, therefore could not transmit covid to anyone else. Yes the young nurse was in the same vaccination class, but if every second person who is fully vaccinated isn't able to transmit covid then we would definitely be winning

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Ardern – “said on current numbers, each case of Delta had transmitted it to six others. That needed to be less than 1.”

Ouch!! – Elimination is going to be tough with this one – as OZ has just found out.

Even if it is brought under control – this will probably be and should be the last lock-down of its type.

Vaccination is looking more and more like the only way out – we need to see minimum 60,000+ a day – full focus required on achieving 80%+ coverage in the shortest possible time now.

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Interesting to see very small number have had Covid jab from being tested positive , Think Cindy said 8-11 people had some sort jab, they are still spreaders so is the Covid jab just to make symptoms little less worse?
when we all get jabbed is this going to be the answer ?

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Yes, if you had been paying attention in epidemiology class you would know that vaccinated people can be infectious in the early stages of the virus. But that unvaccinated people are infectious for longer.

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That's a double edged sword isnt it. Vaxed could be spreading the virus more because they don’t realize they've contracted it, and therefore they wont self isolate.

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Hey pat. The fda just slammed ivermectin.

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no money in ivermectin

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... true ... but it'll cure his headlice and stomach worms ...

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I would recommend the following site for some useful information. May save someone's life.
NZ doctors speaking out with science
https://nzdsos.com

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... only good for horses , not humans !

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Tonybee
Simply a conspiracy theory anti-vaxers site . . . even the title is misleading as it has nothing to do with the medical profession speaking out at all.
Your sense of judgement is severely wanting.

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... he's more likely to suffer toxic effects from ivermectin ... that stuff's potent at deworming horses .... the vets best friend ..

Best we lock up the bleach from him , too ? ...

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I don’t agree with that group. But there are some doctors and nurses in there. Can’t be too smart, however, one contacted his patients via text message about his concerns; smart doctors do this verbally…

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Here is a link from the site I mentioned. It appears quite medical to me although I am not in the medical field and just keeping an opened mind to such considerations.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34145166/ (National Center for Biotechnology Information, U.S. National Library of Medicine)
Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of COVID-19 Infection: A Systematic Review, Meta-analysis, and Trial Sequential Analysis to Inform Clinical Guidelines
Andrew Bryant 1, Theresa A Lawrie 2, Therese Dowswell 2, Edmund J Fordham 2, Scott Mitchell 3, Sarah R Hill 1, Tony C Tham 4
Affiliations expand
PMID: 34145166 PMCID: PMC8248252 DOI: 10.1097/MJT.0000000000001402
Abstract (part of)
Background: Repurposed medicines may have a role against the SARS-CoV-2 virus. The antiparasitic ivermectin, with antiviral and anti-inflammatory properties, has now been tested in numerous clinical trials.
Conclusions: Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally.

Copyright © 2021 The Author(s). Published by Wolters Kluwer Health, Inc

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I’m puzzled about those who refuse vaccination – what is their plan when we open up.

If/when they become infected – their options seem to lie between not too bad an outcome to absolutely horrendous and the possibility of death.

What am I missing?

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What you are addressing is a problem that has not been addressed. That is those that cannot or will not get vaccinate may exist in numbers still sufficient to overburden health provision and other factors. In theory, based on today’s scenario, if that proves to be the case, NZ will have to stay locked down forever.

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“NZ will have to stay locked down forever”

But of course we won’t – perhaps some sort of regionally driven “lock-down lite” type of affairs.

Following OZ pronouncements from Scott and Gladys there’s just going to have to be a public acceptance of ongoing hospitalisation and associated deaths.

As in “just a really, really bad bout of our regular seasonal flu”.

This is going to be interesting?!?

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Just speculating. If today the priority is to prevent our hospitals etc from being overwhelmed by Covid admissions then it stands to reason that priority must still exist until such time there are few enough people about in NZ to pose that actual risk. Obviously those not vaccinated will be the prime contributor to that factor.

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"...it stands to reason that priority must still exist until such time there are few enough people about in NZ to pose that actual risk. Obviously those not vaccinated will be the prime contributor to that factor." Yep, Darwin will eventually be proven right again.

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Custard - For some it is a case of weighing up the unproven side effects against the possibility of infection. Each adult in my family has made their own decision - each of us uncertain as to whether it is the right one - and sadly we may not find out until it is too late.

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When you say "unproven side effects" you really meant to say "so far mostly unobserved side-effects", right?

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Appreciate the reply Wilco.

I’m not quite sure if there’s a plan in there or not really – however, choices/consequences – and as you say “Each adult in my family has made their own decision”.

All the best with it.

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Similar situation here. Most of my family have had it, in-laws and husband are antivaxxers. I'm pregnant and have a 2 year old child. Tough choices on the horizon.

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I have anti-vaxx nutters in my family too. But I think the logic is fairly straight-forward. We are all going to be exposed to the Wuhan virus soon enough. It's much better to be vaccinated when it happens than not.

Don't know about the effects of the vaccine on the pregnancy, but my wife caught COVID when at 20 weeks and seemed to have a fairly easy ride with it.

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Was it delta Brock? I'm booked in as soon as I finish my first trimester (about a week) so I should be ok and studies are indicating I may pass some initial protection to the newborn. I'm still trying to figure out whether it's medically justified or not but have been wildly considering kicking them all to the kerb until the new ones 3m old and has some semblance of an immune system. But potentially some of that is just because I'm so over their bull*.

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Most likely UK variant (Alpha).

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There are no anti vaxxers in our family - just those that trust government implicitly and those who are not sure.

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I would recommend the following site for some useful information. May save someone's life.
NZ doctors speaking out with science
https://nzdsos.com

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... only good for horses , not humans ..

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Siouxsie Wiles recommends vaccination for pregnant women.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/125390061/covid19-d…

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Yes I'm booked in for the beginning of the second trimester

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The pink woman doesn't seem to talk much about the problems with covid and obesity. I can't figure out why...

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So you enjoy being a bully eh brock?

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Nah. Just don't like hypocrites.

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No need for personal insults then is there

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You have insulted people in the past dcnbwz..

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There's a difference between calling rubbish for what it is and personal attacks

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In the interest of public health here is some more information on the matters you may be unaware of if you have been relying expert advice from unqualified celibrity "experts".

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/09/why-covid-19-more-deadly-people…

The team of five million will be that much stronger when we each take personal responsibility to lessen the burden on our health system in this trying time.

Aroha.

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She was also anti mask in the early stages - wouldn't be relying on her opinion on if you should be vaccinated when pregnant - not her area of expertise.

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Her "expertise" is saying whatever the government wants to hear.

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She has far more qualifications than you Pat.

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No she doesn't actually

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Mrs Ronald McDonald says "Make it click".

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.

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Internationally, there are many reports of women losing their child during pregnancy after taking the vaccination.
I would recommend the following site for some useful information. May save someone's life.
NZ doctors speaking out with science
https://nzdsos.com

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... complete bollocks ... you're spreading outright lies ...

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"NZ Doctors Speaking Out" - simply an anti-vaxers site.
Stop pushing misinformation.

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... when he's dead on the slab from covid , the coroner will marvel at his lice free skin & lack of scabies ... ivermectin will make him look good for the undertaker ...

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People can choose to have the vaccine or virus but they'll struggle to have neither over any time horizon. As the UK shows where 90%+ have antibodies.

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... since the UK has opened for freedom ... the transmission of Delta has run rampant , infection rates are high .... BUT ... death rates are negligible ... hospitalizations are down ..

Therein lies the point , the vaccine wont stop covid from spreading ... but it all protect victims from serious harm ...

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They're putting their faith in so-far unproven treatments such as ivermectin, and their own immune systems. But many others have done the same and ended up dead as a result.

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astra zeneca have new treatment, there is big money in for the pharma companies so they have pivoted research they were on towards covid.
Time is the one thing they need as for studies they are getting real time data from a lot of people and that is speeding up research as they are not having to recuit people for research
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/20/astrazenecas-antibody-therapy-prevents-…

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I saw Scott Morrison waxing lyrical on the Herald about the monoclonal antibody treatment Sotrovimab. This coming after governments, industry, and the media propaganda machine have all taken a gigantic sh*t on ivermectin. The sickening irony is that if you look at the primary literature (here) Sotrovimab and Ivermectin have almost identical efficacy. You can guarantee Sotrovimab will cost governments a fortune! At least Australian doctors can now prescribe ivermectin for covid19 without getting in trouble (see here).

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Hey Pat - the fda just slammed ivermectin - it's really much better for parasitic worms. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/23/fda-horse-message-iverm…

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. . if you have worms , scabies & covid ... ivermectin will rid you of the worms & scabies ...

Unless you're vaccinated by a specific antiviral covid drug , you risk covid .. permanent lung damage , death ... but . .. the undertaker will marvel at your lack of skin lice ... ivermectin , the wonder cure ...

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Research suggests otherwise.
Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of COVID-19 Infection: A Systematic Review, Meta-analysis, and Trial Sequential Analysis to Inform Clinical Guidelines
Link here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34145166/
Conclusions: Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally.
Copyright © 2021 The Author(s). Published by Wolters Kluwer Health, Inc.

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. . 100 % rubbish ! .. you're peddling stupidity ...

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It's a peer reviewed meta analysis written by an expert Tess Lawrie who also writes Cochrane reviews. What's wrong with you?

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... what's wrong with you , spruiking a horse & cow de-wormer , which is toxic to human beings ... if you try it , then die .... don't come running to me saying that no one warned you ...

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Tonybee
Be very, very careful; your stupidity demonstrates that you are clearly at extreme risk of being a victim of Nigerian scammers . . . the FDA has strongly rejected this.

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Maybe, probably.

But here is the parallel stupidity that Govt. runs with. We all know that people with co-morbidity conditions run a greater risk of further complications if they catch Covid.

Many of these conditions are bad lifestyle choices eg most obesity which NZ is number 3 in the world. And in lockdown, many people double down on some of these bad choices. Yet not one world from Govt. about all those things that would help, that is in our individual hands.

Sort of like we will beat climate change problems without changing the way we go about things.

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I am confused you can still get the virus even when vaccinated

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Yeah, this vaccine is different from most that people are normally familiar with. When they were under development, last year the general consensus from experts is that any vaccine that prevented severe illness and death by at least 50% was worth having. Turns out the mRNA ones were about 85-90% effective against the original COVID strain.

I believe that experts weren't expecting for all transmission to stop from the vaccines, perhaps due to the particular nature of coronaviruses. In any event the threshold for vaccination was always 50%+ effectiveness at protecting individuals from severe outcomes, but not from preventing infection whatsoever.

I feel like my above response is perhaps not the compelling answer you might have wanted, though. I'd suggest looking at Siouxsie Wile's writings, I'm fairly sure she would have answered this question at least once.

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What's the percentage chance you'll get severe symptoms from Covid without vaccine?
What's the percentage chance you'll be asymptomatic?

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All vaccines have a percentage effective rate and none are 100%, (many not even 90%, not just covid 19/mRNA ones). A lot of the immune system can be faulty and can even attack the body, also many struggle to build immunity even with vaccination. Vaccination reduces risk substantially but never completely. We still have a high percentage of population that rely on the vaccination of others around them as protection as vaccination is not as effective for them or they may be medically vulnerable.

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..

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Where Auckland goes Northland will not be different. The cost in police manpower to maintain the border between the two regions can't/wont be justified.
Look for more confrontations between local communities and those coming in.
Still passing caravans yesterday on my way to an essential job.

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Yeah I'm pretty wild at all the aucklanders that came north at the sound of a lockdown. Covid in the wastewater in warkworth but no cases... What's the bet that was some jerk with his boat / caravan / trailer stopping by the public toilets on their way up to their "second home"

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The only viable plan is to eradicate this outbreak, vaccinate to the max, and then adjust to our new reality. That R value of 6 is crazy high.

Govt are doing the right thing though and I am pleased that we didn’t grab more vaccines early - other countries need them more than we do.

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that and the vaccines will be tweaked same as the flu one is every year, so no point stocking up on the early version

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"...other countries need them more than we do." Really? We're now last for vaccination rates in the OECD & a list of 100 countries.

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Well we haven’t had a Covid death in about a year have we. How does that compare on your lists?

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And there are some large petri dishes for developing new strains -- less developed countries, the US, UK, Sweden, Holland, Brasil, ....

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"other countries need them more than we do". Who does our government work for? Other countries or the people of New Zealand? The governments' interests should only lie with the betterment of its own people and nation.

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Our govt works for the UN

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That’s a grim view of by the world

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You don't have a firm grip on human nature then...

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Jacinda is like a WW1 General. Watching wave after wave of soldiers going over the top and getting mowed down, most falling back into the trench. But Jacinda insists the attack will proceed continuously ordering charges over the top.

Jacinda like a WW1 General who is doubling down on failed charges. Just like her elimination strategy is doubling down condemning us all to the trenches.

But Prime Minister the strategy won't work... NO the lockdowns will proceed...

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And she is not learning from overseas. Elimination is, of course, impossible as Delta is so transmissible. Hipkins (almost) admitted this in "Q&A" yesterday but Cindy said today she wants to follow the strategy, "until next year". The only way out, in my opinion, is authorising ivermectin and opening the borders.

If the PM's policy is maintained for a year, our debt will quadruple to $200 billion, we will default and end up like Venezuela.

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Ivermectin? I follow this area pretty closely and I'd be grateful for any references to supporting data which follow the gold standard of randomised, double blind and placebo controlled undergoing peer review. There is very good discussion of this on Pipeline, a medicinal chemistry blog. In summary, its worse than homeopathy and the fraudulent French need a throat punch for their "work."

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A study such as that is being run in the UK right now. We'll finally have gold-standard clinical evidence to support (or not support) ivermectin in the treatment of COVID-19 by the end of the year.

Of course the fact that the 'most promising' of the small ad-hoc studies published to date had to be withdrawn because it had fraudulent and fake data in it, doesn't look good for the proponents of ivermectin.

It's also worth noting that the manufacturer of ivermectin recommends not using it to treat COVID-19. You know, big pharma recommending not to use their drugs, seems like the opposite sort of thing that people accuse big pharma of doing.

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The Nobel prize winning virologist Dr Luc Montagnier recommended treatment of Covid by; "The early treatment of infection with ivermectin and bacterial antibiotic because there is a bacterial cofactor that amplifies the effects of the virus.“ There has of course been no "double blind" test of the Pfizer vaccine as the control group was given the vaccine... Ivermectin has 40 years of safe use. The Pfizer vaccine on the other hand has 13,000 plus deaths attributed to it on the CDC/VAERS reporting system.

Ivermectin eliminated Delta in India. Clearly the mRNA vaccine becomes useless after six months whereas natural immunity from having Covid is a lot longer lasting. Those who had Sars 1 have (protecting) T cells 15 years later.

Vaccination is clearly counterproductive as it driving the creation of variants and does not stop transmission. We need to politically eliminate Cindy. She has no no idea what she is doing.

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The Nobel prize winning virologist... who has since been completely discredited.
Ivermectin has 40 years of safe use... In animals
VAERS is a system where anyone including patients family members can submit reports in a country that has an incredibly large antivax movement, so until it has been verified utilising these numbers is intentionally misleading.
Ivermectin eliminated delta in India? I'll believe that when I see it!
Immunity from covid lasts longer when you get it? Actually studies show the reverse is true, long term immunity isn't awesome for vaccines but it's shorter from natural infection.
Sars 1 was a very different animal, much less transmissible.
Anyway I grow weary / bored. Would love to know your age group, by all means roll the dice with your own health and safety and let us all know how it goes.

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Ivermectin is a bloody drench and has no place as an antiviral

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Saved a shtload of people in Uttar Pradesh.

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... correct ... its horse medicine ... no antiviral properties .. worms & lice ....

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You've done the required reading sunchap. Kudos.

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@Lanthanide - It appears that the Oxford University Ivermectin trial is deliberately set up to fail. Look at the dosing regimen and patient selection!

https://covid19up.org/university-of-oxford-study-ivermectin/

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Everything that provides proof that you're wrong Pat "Oh it's set up to fail" or "Well that's not a credible source" How about the fda then?

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Its very simple. The Oxford University Ivermectin trial is garbage! They're enroling very sick people aged 65+ two weeks after symptoms begin and dosing them with half the reccommended dose for only three days instead of five. Set up to fail! period!

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How about the fda report Pat?

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I scrutinise the primary literature rather than trusting someone else to interpret it for me.

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I rest my case.

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One study?! Not as a baseline hundreds (normally more needed) all peer reviewed and validated? My cat can submit one study to medical journals of a bunch of humans. Does not make it accurate and I can influence results with bribery and fraud.

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Hi Cheetah,
Please see here… https://c19ivermectin.com/
112 studies, 70 peer reviewed - currently showing 82% improvement in prophylactic treatment.

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@Cheetahlegs66 - you obviously dont follow this area closely. There are 31 randomized controlled clinical trials involving ivermectin. https://ivmmeta.com/

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“Elimination is impossible”: heard that before.

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Most recently from Steven Joyce! Again!

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Covid has an animal "reservoir" if it came from bats. Small pox was eliminated as it never got into animals. Covid is now endemic through the world. Are you serious?

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So why have we had so many more days of no lockdown than many other countries, and much fewer deaths?

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Geography and luck.

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That is a next level delusional conclusion - makes no sense at all.

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Start those money printing machines again Mr Orr you are going to need them especially now Robinson has spend the so called 50 billion on other shit not related and economists still think they are going to raise the OCR dreaming not going to happen anytime soon
As Ive said many times go and buy assets that produce an income and sit on it because the assets are going to skyrocket in this decade.

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especially now Robinson has spend the so called 50 billion on other shit not related

Can you please point out which parts of the COVID response and recovery fund were not spent on response and recovery? You know, helping the economy recover from the record-setting decline in GDP in quarter 2 of last year?

The fund was never $50B for only wage subsidies. If it were, it would have been called the COVID wage subsidy fund.

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$105M for MSMedia support, contingent on Govt policies propaganda support

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Do you think our response to COVID with the current lockdown would be better, or worse, without the MSM present?

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The contingency was nothing to do with Covid, its specifically for MSMedia supporting the Govts ToW "principles"social engineering overreach agenda, thereby avoiding questions about the complete absence of any electoral mandate for such a significant revision of NZs democracy.

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There was a family that arrived at the Crowne Plaza at the same time as source case and stayed there for 12 days prior to testing positive. They obviously would have used the exercise area adjacent to the public walkway multiple times during their stay. Has ANYONE that has tested positive so far been asked if they have ever used that public walkway in the past 3 weeks. There are multiple day time locations of interest for stores and eateries in the Elliot st area ( Rear of the Crowne Plaza). It's like they don't want to know the source.

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The contact tracers are not stupid. But I do wonder about you posing that question assuming that they are.

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This is the Newsroom Article.Has anyone in authority rebuked it?
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/public-walkway-rubs-shoulders-with-miq
This is the press release from MOH including details of the day 12 3 x positve cases linked to the supossed index case.
https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/media-releases/11-additional-comm… Did those 3 people (family) exercise in area adjacent to the public walkway during the 12 days they were at the Crowne Plaza while positive?
Seems more logical than stupid.

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I passed by or near Crowne Plaza several times prior to lockdown. I always wore a mask when doing so, as I am inherently distrustful of the quarantine facilities and their protocols.

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I hope Jacinda continues to lockdown entire NZ every time there is 1 COVID case in NZ. That is what its citizens voted for, so go for it.

NZ can have its own bubble with itself and isolate from the rest of the world. Perfect situation for Labour and their supporters. Enjoy it, while every other country learns to adapt with the situation and accelerate their economies.

At least NZ has it's housing economy booming!

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Other countries have hundreds or thousands of people dying from COVID-19 every day. We don't.

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Countries have 100,000 dying every day? Which ones precisely? According to worldometer there were just over 8000 deaths yesterday with Indonesia tops at just over 1000. This is the sort of hyperbole that you are keen and quick to expose and debunk yourself. Let’s go to New York, unless it has been censored, we no longer see the freezer trucks parked outside of morgues and mass graves being dug on river island’s anymore. In fact talking to our old neighbourhood in New Jersey close by, they are going to shows there, up and down the turnpike, just like they always used to. So what’s New York got that New Zealand hasn’t then.

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Huge festivals going on in the UK. The virus is around but nobody cares. You get it and you get over it. Life is back to normal.

Meanwhile in New Zealand...

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Back to normal 18 months after loads of deaths and lockdowns.

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Yep. But that's over now.

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7 day average of COVID deaths in the UK is 98 right now.

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It would be more correct to say dying within 28 days of having a positive COVID test.

The UK has a population of 70 million.

Would it make you happy if they were all still locked in their houses until the day they die.

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Would it make you happy if they were all still locked in their houses until the day they die.

No, why would it? That doesn't meant I want to hasten their deaths, either. Something you seem to have no qualms at all about.

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"Nobody cares"
Except for the 100 or so a day dying at the moment plus the people with long covid....

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Dead people don't care.

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They might care as they are dying. Also their family may care. Similarly those who can't get medical treatment they need because the hospitals are overflowing with COVID patients might care.

Just a thought.

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The hospitals aren't overflowing with COVID patients.

And people with other ailments are getting the treatments they need because the whole of society is no longer shut down.

Instead of being hysterical bedwetting over the virus, you should care about the bigger picture.

Just a thought.

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The hospitals aren't overflowing with COVID patients.

In NZ they are not, correct. Thanks to the actions of this government.

The same is not true elsewhere in the world, which is what my comment was about.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-covid-surge-icu-beds/

As for COVID-19 delaying other medical care, this is such an issue that papers have been written about it: https://ascopubs.org/doi/full/10.1200/GO.20.00639

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This conversation thread was about the UK. There are ZERO restrictions in the UK and the hospitals are not overflowing.

The actions of this government, don't make me laugh.

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The actions of this government, don't make me laugh.

Yip, only the most successful COVID response of any developed country in the world, with net 67% approval rating for their handling.

You're very much in the minority, locally and globally, for your derision of this achievement.

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Being locked in our homes and stranding kiwis overseas while the rest of the world is looking at us with pity is a strange definition of success.

Time to put on the big boy pants and stop bedwetting over covid. The rest of the world has moved on.

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The rest of the world has moved on.

With hundreds to thousands of people dying each day.

You can keep pretending COVID isn't a disaster overseas if you like, but the actual data shows you're wrong. People not caring any more != problem is solved.

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Were you barking at the moon and demanding the borders be closed and everyone be locked in their houses when thousands were killed by influenza every winter?

The hysterics need to stop. The virus is not going away no matter how much we rage or hide.

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No, because we had an influenza vaccine that was readily available to all who needed it. I personally got one every year.

Once COVID is in the same ballpark as influenza - with a readily available vaccine to all whom need it, then I agree COVID should be treated the same as influenza, based on what we know about it.

NZ is not yet in that situation. We should be there by the end of Q1 next year.

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Isn't the UK on another upward trend for covid cases, hospitalisations etc.?

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Yes, but don't let a few facts get in the way of the vitriol! Even excess mortality is on the rise again in the UK.

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is it not 100k per day for the world not any country, in saying that there are still more births than covid deaths per day in countries like india so covid will not kill off the human race just cut down the population
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

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Hundreds OR thousands

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Countries have 100,000 dying every day?

I said "hundreds to thousands".

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Ok, I could blame my reading glasses, but indeed I apologise for my lack of focus.

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Hundreds or thousands NOT hundreds of thousands...

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Why don't we hear more about the people who have covid in NZ and the effects it's had on them? I've only seen the odd case cherry picked by media from overseas to talk about it.

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Because it doesn't feed the narrative of fear and hysteria when there is nothing to report.

I've had it, it's not pleasant, but it's not that bad either.

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That's it, no doubt media have tracked down cases and have a similar response to yourself - not much of a story to push the narrative...

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I've had it, it's not pleasant, but it's not that bad either.

And I've seen reports from people who weren't hospitalised saying it was the worst 2 weeks of their life and they're never been that sick before.

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It's called selection bias.

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it's called variable impact

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I've had it, it's not pleasant, but it's not that bad either.

It's called selection bias.

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Where are the reports from cases in New Zealand?

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You provided 1 story from someone in NZ, another in Afghanistan and another in Durban? Come on, is the the best Google search you could do lol. None with delta.

I want to know what it's like now, for people getting the delta strain, in New Zealand. Not just 1 story but a range to know what impact its really having to the majority of people.

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All 3 stories are from people who live in NZ. Two are people who contracted COVID while in NZ. There was a 4th link that was included in error, which I've now deleted.

I want to know what it's like now, for people getting the delta strain, in New Zealand.

There are 7 people in hospital right now from delta. They're probably not in much of a mood to give interviews about their condition to journalists, I'd imagine.

Give it a few days and one of them may die. Apparently that's what you're waiting for, for "proof" that delta is a disease that can kill people. Apparently evidence from overseas doesn't count for some reason.

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You've edited your original comment, we'll done. There's 100 people who aren't in hospital who could provide feedback on what it was like to have experienced the Delta variant. Or do we just focus on the most severe cases?

I never said I want people to die, where'd you get that from? That's the worst emotive statement...

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You've edited your original comment, we'll done.

Yes, I said I edited my original comment? It's not like I'm trying to hide anything. My comment said "here are 3" and actually had 4 links, as I noted one of the links was in error and is now deleted. So the remaining 3 links are the 3 I meant to originally refer to.

Or do we just focus on the most severe cases?

You were the one who wanted experience from people in NZ who had severe cases of NZ, so I provided some. Now apparently you want cases from people in NZ with mild cases of COVID? Why? Do you believe mild cases of COVID don't exist?

I never said I want people to die, where'd you get that from?

I extrapolated that from your demand for bad COVID experiences of people in NZ with delta. There are very few people in NZ who have had delta thanks to the actions of this government, so very few people who could have had bad experiences. I noted that there are 7 people currently undergoing bad experiences who are unlikely to want to talk to journalists just now. If you wait a few weeks or months, then they might tell their story. If you wait a few days, one of them might die. That seems to be what you're interested in - bad outcomes from COVID. Apparently you seem to think that overseas experience doesn't count for anything, and we have to have NZ victims of delta in order for it to be proved as a fatal disease. Weird thought processes on your part, I must say.

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The Indian variant is the same virus with the same symptoms and severity. It's just a bit more contagious.

The fear is over the top.

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Incorrect. Delta progresses much more quickly, meaning it can overwhelm weaker people more quickly, and also means there's a shorter window of time from when someone contracts it to when they may need hospitalization to save their life. Delaying hospitalization = more severe outcomes are likely, including death.

Delta progressing much more quickly is what makes it more contagious, and also more dangerous.

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We need an edit history on comments - I can't keep up with the amount of times you've changed yours Lathantide. It's a waste of time interacting with someone who applies such tactics.

Read my unedited comments more clearly aswell "...Not just 1 story but a range to know what impact its really having to the majority of people."

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It's a waste of time dealing with those who promote covid denial or minimisation and promote an agenda that sits well with conspiracy theorists and yes, you guessed it, my bot algorithm comes up again with - the right.

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I told you that I edited my comment Nifty1, and exactly what I edited. The original comment was clearly wrong when it referred to 3 stories but gave 4 links. Nothing secretive is going on here. You're just using this as an excuse so you don't have to try and debate me.

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After I replied, you edited your prior comment to reflect that statement. You've done this multiple times now, trying to make my response look flawed. Pretty petty really.

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Um, no. I told you exactly what I edited. If you don't want to believe me, then that's on you.

Btw, the time of the post changes after each edit (I'm adding this line itself as a edit, just for transparency's sake). So you, and everyone else, can easily go back through these comments and compare the posted time of my comments to the times in your replies. They will see that only one of my earlier comments has a time of posting later than your reply does - the one that I said I edited. All others are timestamped before your replies.

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It can cause erectile dysfunction too...
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33988001/
Might explain some of the fragile egos around here ;)

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Level 8 Lockdown. Now.

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Luckily Pfizer make a drug that actually works on that issue..

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I was horribly, seriously sick with campylobacter about 10 years ago.

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But it was never going to be one case was it? Would far prefer our current situation that NSW.

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Has anyone worked out the magic number that signals the point of no return?

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4 more weeks without cases decreasing I reckon. Then it will go from eliminate to manage. But I don’t think that will actually happen, I reckon we will get back to near zero by this Sunday.

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Cases are only going to go up from here, and for a long time. There's been so many close contacts, how can more people not have caught it for such a highly transmissible virus?

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Isn’t that the purpose of lockdown? Pretty hard to transmit very much it if you don’t see anyone.

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Don't see anyone... how about essential workers, people visiting supermarkets etc. By time you find out you're a positive case it's too late, you've infected those that you live with and they've also gone about their daily lives as above. It's almost impossible to stop it - if infact it is as transmissible as they claim.

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Plus people not following the rules.

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Great last sentence, so true.
Follow the math.

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Agree. The math isn't in favour of daily cases decreasing any time over the next few days.

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Infection rate R number is currently 6, needs to be

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What happens once everyone who wants the vaccine has had it? Keep locking down to protect those who can't be vaccinated? A terrible choice.

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no once your been vaccinated you can pick up it again but no so bad if you haven't had the vaccine, hey Cindy and her team have to keep control of the helm

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Given there’s over a million kiwis that can’t be vaccinated currently (young children) and won’t likely be able to here until early next year I think we should probably hold fire on the assumption that those that can’t be vaccinated is a small subset of the population.

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I was looking for the list of towns where waste water testing is being done. According to this page: https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-no… the list is:
Auckland (multiple sites), Wellington, Hamilton, Christchurch, Rotorua, Queenstown, Whangarei, Dunedin, Palmerston North, New Plymouth, Nelson, Taupo, Gisborne, Napier and Invercargill. Is anyone aware of a more up to date list? Seems like a pretty short list, with notable omissions, given that it's such a cost effective way of checking for the presence of Covid.

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I agree with the precautions as much as I hate my human right freedoms being taken away, and yet we're penalising some people with the health directive that contradicts these existing laws in place

Nobody is a fan of lockdowns, but in the back of my mind I can't help but think 'what's the REAL risk here?'
Not an anti-vaxer and yes we have to protect the vulnerable etc...

The truth to date is we lost 26 people to COVID in total in 18 months yet in 2018 we lost >550 people to the normal flu where no-one batted an eyelid

Are we shutting down to save lives? or to save face?

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To save lives.

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In my humble opinion locking down is not saving lives as lock downs have been shown not to work, in many scientific studies. (This is partly because Covid is spread by aerosols in confined spaces ie houses.) For example, the places in the USA that locked down the hardest had the highest IFR ie. New York etc. Open Florida had a low rate of death.

Israel had a vaccination rate above 80% (using our Pfizer vaccine) in early 2021, but Covid has exploded. "No jab no job" vaccinations and lock downs are thus not just a massive breach of human rights, they are counterproductive I believe, as they do not work and prevent the build up of (longer lasting T cell and mucosal) herd immunity which is the only solution for a highly transmissible, low risk chest virus. This is why WHO had this as their preferred position for 40 years, until they were taken over by the CCP.

Sweden has had no Covid for about a month and their death rate was lower than most of the EU. Cindy needs to open the borders and try the cheap treatments.

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I don't know where you get your information but I would appreciate it if you would stop calling Jacinda Ardern Cindy. As poorly informed as you are even you can rise above that.

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Where are you getting this info from? Sweden has had ten times the death rate as other Nordic countries.

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Link to scientific studies that prove lockdowns don't work? (How would the virus spread if there's no contact between people?)
This one in Nature suggests otherwise...https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2405-7

And Israel has only vaccinated 63% of the total population so 37% are still available to spread (plus some vaccinated people)

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And define 'lockdown' - what NSW, for example, calls a lock down is really some sort of sick joke.

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so we can open up again and have more freedom that many overseas dont have, oh and the real reason because our hospitals are already overloaded due to population growth over the last 15 years and would crash and burn if we let it run

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Didnt realise we lock-downed in 2018. If you gonna make comparisons with influenza at least compare apples with apples. How many people died of influenza during lockdown 2020 would be a moe appropriate comparison.

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I suspect that when no one is mingling, holed up at home then infections of all kinds (not just flu) would slow down so it would not be a great comparison

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You need to think what would have happened if we hadn't had the 5 weeks of level 4 in 2020. Then maybe, just maybe, your comparison with flu would be valid.

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I received a 6ft x 2.5ft swastika flag on Saturday from USA. Yes, I collect WW2 stuff. Might hang from my window as we are a dictatorship.

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You win todays Godwin's law badge. Good job.
Over-reaction much?

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Probably a Groundsmell protestor.

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Wrong type as well. It is funny how the far right mention the Far Reich and have a substantial amount of flags but zero understanding of what a dictatorship is. Perhaps one day history and civics will go back to being taught in schools to a basic level... It is not looking likely for the next generation though as the world view gets narrowed, crippled and more limited.

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All I want is vaccine to work , when looses its grip over 3 months that's a worry
I don't have problem having it but rip n shit and bust theory , you will be having them regularly

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I mean the vaccine works in that the at risk population is relatively well protected by hospitalizations/death.. It is just that the vaccine provides no sterializing immunity and therefore no herd immunity.

The optimal strategy given this is to vaccinate the at risk groups. Over 50s & under 50s with increased risk. I.e a 45 year old who is obese.

There is however no point vaccinating healthy under 50s. Natural immunity is the best long term defence

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No way, I just filled out my misinformation croc of shizz bingo card.

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I would suggest people watching the first half of Q+A on TVNZ from Sunday. Chris Hipkins was being quite realistic about the fact Delta is testing the defence strategies we've been using to date. His tone changed slightly. Then a doctor representing those who work in ICU made a good case for how getting vaccinated will help medical staff - particularly those who work in ICU. He also made the point that while the Govt hasn't done much to improve ICU capacity, the problem, again, is labour - the fact you can't train someone to be an ICU nurse or doctor overnight. Anyway, I thought it was an interesting listen. The doctor was particularly straight-up and level-headed. 

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All coming back to decades of profound under-investment in health coupled with overpopulation. Having no fat in the system is simply madness.
We are reaping what we have sowed.

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National voters don't care, or realise they're the proximate cause.

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.. why boot the Gnats ... Labours been in power the last 4 years .... and they've achieved .... ummm....anything ?

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I am hoping Hipkins will be allowed to make the decisions as Health Minister (with Cabinet approval) as is usual in our constitutional system. He seems to accept Covid cannot be eliminated (as per Q and A). It worries me however that Labour has now shut down Parliament for a week over National and ACT opposition.

New Zealand and Oz are now the only countries, in the world, pursuing elimination. We are also ignoring cheap treatments proven to work in scientific journals;
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34145166/

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Hipkins isn't the minister of health. Andrew Little is.

Many pacific islands are persuing elimination.

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New Zealand has a million people living overseas. The only way to eliminate this virus would be to close the borders to our citizens and shut down tourism forever.

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tourism. There's a word i haven't heard in a while.

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And that would destroy us as a nation.

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Australia isn't pursuing elimination. It is hard to say what we are doing as our govt is bi-polar.

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Good point, even the Australians have seen that Delta cannot be stopped.

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Did they even try though?

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The outbreak in Brisbane was stopped. It's really NSW that has screwed everything up - and let it into NZ.

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Is it not training enough or not retaining enough because as someone who had spent 2 weeks in PICU with his son recently it was the latter according to people working at the coal face. Who would blame them when you have a government freezing their pay and successive governments not addressing spiraling housing costs.

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It seems clear that the current lockdown is the sensible course of action. It's not guaranteed to work, but at the very least it buys us some time while more people get vaccinated.

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Correct. Then after a grace period let the virus run its course through the population. It's the only way.

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You got any kids Brock? You happy for the virus to run it’s course through them whilst other demographics have the luxury of vaccination?

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Hold up, do people care about the young in NZ?

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Yes, in fact, my toddler tested positive for Covid when we lived in London and we couldn't even tell he had it. He indicated a sore head one evening. Doesn't really do much to children. Very low risk. Thankfully.

My newest baby was also recently hospitalised in NZ with RSV, the same as your experience. I think it would be stupid to shut down society over it. Agree the hospitals here are buggered though.

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I have kids and it's pretty crap for them being in lockdown. Education, sporting and cultural pursuits all put on hold. Mentally stressful.

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That's pretty much what the government is planning to do, come Q2 next year once we're at 80%+ vaccinated (I actually think we'll probably crack 90%).

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Currently 22% fully vaccinated, not looking good - how long is it going to take?

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I think we have to let it run. A new study (August 2021) in MedRxv from Stanford Professor John Ionnaidis indicates that the Delta case fatality rate (CFR) is lower than the flu; "New variants becoming dominant in 2021 may also be associated with further lower IFR. E.g., in the last week of June 2021, in the UK, where the delta mutation has spread widely, even CFR has been ∼0.1%."

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Vaccination anything to do with that?

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There's a widely used flu vaccine too

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I think we have to let it run. A new study (August 2021) in MedRxv from Stanford Professor John Ionnaidis indicates that the Delta case fatality rate (CFR) is lower than the flu; "New variants becoming dominant in 2021 may also be associated with further lower IFR. E.g., in the last week of June 2021, in the UK, where the delta mutation has spread widely, even CFR has been ∼0.1%."

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We're now vaccinating about 1% of the population a day, so will be in much better shape after a month or two.

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1% a day, is that just for the first jab? Whats the wait time between 1st & 2nd jabs again? When's the booster going to be rolled out. That's going to be a long time to wait...

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Six week interval is the recommendation.

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1%/day is for a single jab. But don't forget that many more people (than the 22% fully vaccinated) have already had a single jab.

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39% have had the first... not looking flash @ 1% per day to get out of lockdown anytime soon.

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Thankfully the vaccination rate doesn't really have anything to do with our current lockdown ending.

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You've been wrong on alot of fronts, this another one.

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Nope, not at all. Our current lockdown will be a success if people follow the rules. It will fail if people don't. That's it. The vaccination rate is currently too low, and it will take too long to ramp up, to have any meaningful impact on ending this lockdown.

That's what the government, and experts independent of the government, are saying.

You're awfully confident for someone who doesn't actually know the facts of what they're talking about.

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Wrong. Success is not guaranteed.

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If people follow the rules, it'll succeed. If they don't, we won't. My comment said that already.

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If you are not going to vaccinate then you must be absolute last priority if you show up to our hospitals.

If you’re not willing to help community then don’t expect public health services to do the same to you.

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If we already have mutations that are resistant to vaccines and can become dominant (Lambda and AY3), and it’s possible that the vaccines are enhancing selection of more fit vaccine resistant mutations, why would we keep vaccinating?

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and it’s possible that the vaccines are enhancing selection of more fit vaccine resistant mutations, why would we keep vaccinating?

Because vaccines are still likely to be at least a little effective against a vaccine-resistant strain? And a little protection is better than nothing?

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which is why vaccination has EVERYTHING to do with ending the present lockdown to go back to your previous comment vaccinated individuals are less likely to catch it less likely to spread it - and less likely to overwhelm our heath system -- three key aspects of why we have to be in a lockdown currently

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Our vaccination rates are too low and will take far too long to get high enough to have any impact on ending the lockdown. Our vaccination rates need to be something like 80%+ to make a meaningful difference to delta.

Vaccination is definitely the key to shortening or avoiding future lockdowns, but again not until we get upwards of 80%. There's also an element to which the government could say "well people in the most at-risk groups are 90% vaccinated, even though the population at large is only 70%, therefore we will have a level 3 lockdown instead of level 4"

The path of the lockdown is dictated by people following the rules, or not. Not vaccination.

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This

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Hahahaha Lord Dowding do you care about comunnity? Banks creating unlimited amounts of credit for financial transactions and creating boom asset cycles.

You mock people struggling and those who can't afford a home. If you cared about society you would denounce ponzi prosperity. But you infact love it.

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Of all the small-brain takes out in the wild right now this has to be the worst one.

Every single last one of us will engage (wilfully or inadvertently) in activities or behaviours that have some risk of increasing our demand on the health system.

If we can restrict access to healthcare based on vaccination status, why not also look at other factors?

Why should motorcycle riders get hospital treatment when they crash? After all, 'temporary New Zealanders' (aka motorcyclists) are many times more likely to require hospitalisation. There is a perfectly suitable alternative to riding a bike - it's called driving, or even taking the bus.

Why should people who refuse to exercise or follow a healthy diet get treatment for heart disease or diabetes? Much like vaccination, there's an easy alternative. It's called getting off your backside and going for a run, or not going to KFC five nights a week (have you seen by the way how many Locations of Interest are fast food joints?)

After all, if you're not willing to help the community by taking steps to be healthy, then don't expect the public health services to do the same to you!

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I feel there will be an updated vaccine just around the corner. I mean, they got one out for the original covid in about 6 months. Once they get in front of the variants that will give us hope but I suspect we will be wearing masks or spending more time working from home over winter. If international tourism comes back, maybe it’ll only be strong during the summer.

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But any mass vaccination will surely force the bug to mutate? Maybe treatment of the symptoms is the best solution; https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/fulltext/2021/08000/iverm…

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The great thing about being in New Zealand is that we don't need to trial things ourselves, we can watch the rest of the world and learn from their mistakes. I'm sorry but using India as an example of what we should do? They are a third world country who were burning their bodies in the streets. Why are no other developed countries using ivermectin.
You keep referencing this study (which is just a literature study of a whole lot of small studies, to be exact, 24 diff studies totalling only 3406 participants... So average of 141 participants per study? A bit embarrassing quite frankly) and all it says is there is low confidence ivermectin can ward off covid, in other words you're likely to still get it, and when it develops into a serious case, mid level confidence it will stop you from dying. Great. Get the virus, almost die from it and then live with the long term injuries associated with that episode. The vaccine is designed to prevent transmission and significantly lowers the severity, and it is not dependant on availability of hospital staff to administer it.
Why do you think NZ should switch to an entirely substandard treatment approach from the gold standard - to save some money?
I just do not understand this obsession with ivermectin. It's bizarre.

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False dichotomy! Nobody's saying pharmaceuticals OR vaccine. We need to use all the practical tools we can, and ivermectin is a powerful tool. Why isn't there a public health drive going on right now? Why aren't the media talking about vitamin D and zinc and adequate sleep to boost immunity. That's not wishy washy homeopathic BS. There's a lof of peer reviewed scholarly literature backing that up https://c19early.com/ Talk to your family doctor about it. You can buy 1000IU Vitamin D + Zinc tablets from chemist warehouse for $13. You can do something practical right now to protect youself and your family. https://www.chemistwarehouse.co.nz/buy/107644/GO-Healthy-Vitamin-D3-100…

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. . you'll wreck your liver , overdosing yourself with " supplements " ...

Save the $ 13 : Want a free dose of vitamin D ? ... it's a sunny day ... take your scabie & lice free body out into it !

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You're right GBH. Dont want to overdo it. Should consult your doctor if you're unsure. That said, 1000 IU (25 mcg) is pretty low. Here's a fantastic summary video on vitamin D from medcram https://youtu.be/ha2mLz-Xdpg

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A lot of people suffer vitamin D deficiency particularly over the winter months. It's a good idea to supplement with it.

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... sure .... if you see a doctor first ... and sort out a safe dosage ... but , even in winter , it's best to roll up the sleeves , and get some 100 % pure sun exposure ...

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Listening to an expert in vitamin D who was interviewed by Kim Hill about a year ago, they said that whenever your shadow is longer than you are tall, the sun will be too weak to effectively produce vitamin D. In the darkest months of the year, this really means you need exposure to sun between about 10am and 2pm. It's certainly do-able, but a lot of people would have to deliberately go out of their way to do it, and of course they don't.

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.... I think skin colour matters too ... whites being easily able to synthesize vitamin D in far southern/northern latitudes ... whereas darker folks require more equatorial climes for healthy vitamin D production ... meanwhiles .... back to covid ...

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Pat - The FDA have dismissed outright Ivermectin. Ivermectin is a poster child for the right and the anti vax movement.

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I was responding to sunchap who has added that link about ivermectin to numerous posts within this page. So he is talking about using pharmaceuticals.

Everyone can and should be doing what they can to improve their immune systems but they should be doing that every day they are alive anyway. For many people it's not just as straightforward as taking a few supplements...

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Yes. Fantastic comment. I think we have to protect ourselves now as the Medical Council is threatening doctors who promote the "Indian solution", which worked.

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Working from home? So 90 percent will be happy for 6 months on their laptops while Manuel workers lose their jobs.

If low end workers lose their jobs how can computor keyboard pushers and zoom callers have an economy left to keep theirs.

It's this false idea that Peter Theil talked about. He said automation will not take over.

If a company has 90 percent keyboard pushers and 10 percent physical Manuel workers how can the 90 percent keep their jobs if the 10 percent lose theirs. I'm really wondering how we have 98 percent at home on laptops being delivered food by the 2 percent for 6 months.

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