Record net departures to Aus in May

Stats NZ says net 3,312 people left NZ permanently for Aus in May, record high for May month; Chch departures remain elevated

21st Jun 11, 11:04am by Alex Tarrant

Hello Lucky Country: The net number of New Zealanders leaving permanently for Australia during May was a record high for a May month, surpassing May 1979 in the days of Robert Muldoon.

There were a net 3,312 permanent departures from New Zealand to Australia during May, a record for that month as levels of people leaving quake-ravaged Christchurch remained elevated, Statistics New Zealand says.

A total of 4,257 departures across the Tasman were offset by 945 arrivals of people coming to New Zealand from Australia to live permanently or long-term here.

The net permanent departure figure to Australia surpassed the previous May record of 2,900 set in 1979, Stats NZ said.

Quake effect

To and from all countries, there was an overall seasonally adjusted net outflow from New Zealand of 360 permanent migrants in May 2011, following net outflows of 130 in April and 520 in March.

Net migration had been negative since March, when departures from Christchurch jumped following the earthquake which damaged the city on 22 February, Stats NZ said..

"Departures of Christchurch residents remained high in May 2011, numbering 800, up from 500 departures in May 2010. Since the earthquake on 22 February, the city has experienced 1,300 more departures and 400 fewer arrivals than in the same period of 2010," Stats NZ said in a release.

"New Zealand had a net migration gain of 4,600 in the year ended May 2011, down from 18,000 the previous year, and below the average annual net migration gain of 12,000 over the last 20 years. The decrease in net migration compared with 2010 was mainly due to an increase in departures to Australia," Stats NZ said.

Already going before Feb quake

ASB economist Jane Turner said the number of New Zealanders leaving permanently (particularly to Australia) had been high prior to the February earthquake, reflecting a challenging NZ economic environment and the attraction of a strong Australian labour market.

"The earthquake adds further momentum to this trend. We expect that net outflows may continue over the coming months, particularly following the large earthquake early last week, which is likely to add to the frustrations of many residents," Turner said.

The charts below are based on unadjusted (actual) figures.

(Updates ASB comment, with overall migration figures, charts.)

Net long term migration

Select chart tabs

Source: Statistics NZ

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58 Comments

by Matt in Auck | 21st Jun 11, 11:16am 1308611779

Thats 3 months in a row of significant net migration losses - this is defintely going to be reducing pressure on the housing market

by Boatman | 21st Jun 11, 11:34am 1308612880

Apart from the earthquake, there are other good reasons to go . Bill English's comments a week ago are simply delusional . He says our low wages and a currency weaker than the Aus$ are a stimulus to investment and job creation in NZ .

This is bollocks .

What he does not realise is that no one wants to put up with low wages earned in a piss-poor currency , ridiculous taxes which start from the first Dollar earned , and paying for subsidies for middle class families in the form of WFF.

Its inevitable that those willing to work , and in many cases our youngest and brightest will leave.

What is the incentive to stay?

by Elley | 21st Jun 11, 2:50pm 1308624659

"What is the incentive to stay? " OK, I'll try to tackle that one.

1. At the moment earning NZ$ isn't actually that bad.

2. If you have the right quals and work ethics, you can actually earn a very tidy income here.

3. Some people like the fact that NZ isn't densely populated.

4. Related to 3 - little risk of running out of food even during bad economic times.

5. We are probably too insignificant to be the target of terrorists. Definite bonus in uncertain times.

6. There are not many developed countries where one can buy a large enough piece of land unless one is a farmer. It's possible here.

7. Diversity of landscape/scenery and you can go on a tramp without feeling like you're walking on a motorway

8. No dangerous animals/insects

9. The weather may not be tropical but it's not bad either compared to many other countries. Extreme temperatures are not that enjoyable anyway.

10. Not many main cities can boast to offer the lifestyle that NZ's main cities offer (think being able to go surfing before work/during lunch break/after work, no traffic jam or at least nowhere near the scale of those experienced in Europe and as a result short commuting time to work etc).

11. Being here if you come from Europe or similar means your mother-in-law is very very far away!

12. NZers are friendly (no, it's not just a myth, in my experience at least), likeable and approachable people.

13. They are also laid back. It's nice not to live around people who are not completely stressed out 100% of the time.

I could definitely do without the shaking but I like it here :) NZ isn't perfect but I think we have it pretty good actually. I could go on with my list without thinking too hard but gotta go.

by Matt in Auck | 21st Jun 11, 3:02pm 1308625362

nice work Elley

by HarryM | 21st Jun 11, 3:51pm 1308628272

Jeeeeezzzzuss something positive.....love your work Elley

by Christov | 21st Jun 11, 3:35pm 1308627301

Its always facinating Elley that it often takes an immigrant to point out what is under our noses....good for you..! a lot of what you had to say is true particularly if your educated ...employed...secure for the most part...and able to spend some of your time ...out there.

That said I don't think Boatman was referring to the same by in large group ...the numbers themselves reflect that Boatman is probably there thereabouts correct in terms of what people are seeing as real opportunity to get a stake in the ground ...upon their return.... or not as the case may be.

But all said n done.....yes it can be a beautiful place to be sometimes.

by Colin Riden | 21st Jun 11, 3:57pm 1308628627

There is also the important question of trend - what NZ was like in the past, where it is now, and where it is going to be in another generation. Having been here for long enough to have something of a baseline on the past, I don't like the trend in where we are going.

Yes, we do still have some advantages few other parts of the world have. Free access to bush and mountains is one - and probably the only reason I am still here - but even that is being eroded. That access though is something only a minority rate as important.

by Elley | 21st Jun 11, 4:09pm 1308629396

Yes, I agree that I am in a privileged position compared to many Kiwis and that the numbers clearly show that a number of people are dissatisfied. But in saying that, I think that people who are not "educated" - and as a result not employed (or at least not employed in good jobs) and not secure - are unlikely to have a much brighter future overseas than they do here.

They may think or hope that they will, and some places like Australia tend to be idealised by Kiwis (hence the number of people leaving I suppose) but I wouldn't be too surprised to learn that many actually end up disappointed once reality catches up.

by Colin Riden | 21st Jun 11, 4:42pm 1308631320

Some may end up disappointed, but many/most choose not to return in a hurry. About 1 million Kiwis live overseas, 4.4 million here.

Two of my siblings live overseas - so far accumulating perhaps 30 years there between them.

My oldest child has been away six years and has no plans to return any time soon. My youngest child will leave next year not long after he completes his qualifications and I would be very surprised if he doesn't also do well where he ends up.

Are you confident your kids won't depart NZ for better opportunities overseas?

by Elley | 21st Jun 11, 5:14pm 1308633292

"Are you confident your kids won't depart NZ for better opportunities overseas?" The overwhelming reason for Kiwis to leave seems to be the attraction of a higher salary. So if that is what you define as "better opportunities" then yes, I am confident that they will able to see beyond that. Which is not to say they won't leave at some point but I think it'll be due to the fact that all our family is in France and this is where both their dad and I spent the first 20 odd years of our lives rather than anything else.

I have lived and worked in 3 different countries, which is not a lot but does give me some perspective (and is completely different to going on an OE/holiday overseas). In the end, when you take everything into account, not just incomes, there are upsides and downsides everywhere and at the end of the day, where one settles down depends on what one enjoys and wants from life. Eg, a woman who loves nothing more than shopping herself crazy would be happier in Paris, London or Sydney than NZ. But in terms of "doing well" (with one's life/career/finances), I think people have just as good a chance to do this here as they have anywhere else and with the right quals and work ethics, good incomes and work opportunities don't lack, in NZ or anywhere.

by Colin Riden | 21st Jun 11, 6:04pm 1308636277

The overwhelming reason for Kiwis to leave seems to be the attraction of a higher salary.

I think you have that wrong, but I accept that the economic imperative to leave is increasing as our economic performance declines.

We are an attractive place for those who enjoy space and the outdoors but that is more by accident than design. More importantly, if you wish to defend the status quo we provide ample job opportunities and many of our immigrants gravitate to them.

With the exception of some relatively small niche fields we are not though an attractive place for those who are smart, think or challenge. Emigration provides an opportunity to escape that. Such escape is not primarily because of the money.

NZ was, and still has the potential to be, a great place to live but until we replace multiple layers of self serving (corrupt at the extreme) and incompetent leadership our smartest Kiwis (those we need most) will continue to depart the country.

by Elley | 21st Jun 11, 7:34pm 1308641648

Well, if "our smartest Kiwis" are indeed leaving in the hope that other countries do not have a self-serving and incompetent leadership then I am 99.9% sure they are in for disappointment. Sadly, this is probably the one thing many countries have in common.

by Colin Riden | 21st Jun 11, 8:09pm 1308643798

You are speculating when having close to 20% of Kiwis living overseas is a fact. Clearly that million people have clerly managed to cope with any disappointment.

While I totally agree with you that self serving and incompetent leadership is common, relativities must be important. As I suggested, NZ has both the scope and a need to replace multiple layers of self-serving and incompetent leadership.

by speckles | 21st Jun 11, 8:33pm 1308645181

People often mature and settle with things they cannot change, everywhere. NZ is not so clean as people would like to think in Goverance however there are a lot worse. I know a number of enterprising people that have gone further overseas than they every possibly imagined and an equal number have not realised their dreams, simply life.

by Elley | 21st Jun 11, 8:34pm 1308645253

I didn't say that they couldn't manage to cope with disappointment. Only that they were likely to be disappointed. Not quite the same thing.

by Kunst | 21st Jun 11, 6:07pm 1308636428

From a settled, comfortable life one cannot judge on other people’s daily life’s. For many life is different.

The education system is fine here in NZ, what’s lacking are trades, skill, knowledge and decent job opportunities for NZyoungsters. In comparison to other developed nations, entire segments in various industries, especially in the production sector are missing.

As a consequence this isn't much fun for the next generation living on low wages, facing increase living costs.

by Justice | 21st Jun 11, 5:44pm 1308635052

So......should I be having second thoughts about living in the US now?

Thing is Elley, everything you have pointed out IS good, but.............unfortunately there is something seriously lacking in NZ, hence one of the highest suicide rates. I could make a list of many things to counter but...........I won't. It would be pointless to do so as opinions are just that, opinions. Take em or leave em.

All I know is for the time being we are happier here in the US than when living in NZ and I'm an ex-native. The US will most probably fail, and if it does NZ will hurt also so there's no escaping that. What we love here in the States is the "diversity of thought and lifestyle (from trailer park to house boat) , the greater populous and the strength that can come from that, the greater variety of landscape, destinations and activities and the entrepreneurial spirit many US citizens have over NZder's. Very refreshing

by Elley | 21st Jun 11, 6:35pm 1308638147

By the sounds of what you say, no you have no reason to have 2nd thoughts. I was just giving my own positive perspective because it seems to me that Kiwis tend to be a bit harsh on their own country and I don't think it is always justified. And yes, it is possible to list negatives too but personally I'd rather focus on the positive things about people/things - it makes life more enjoyable.

As I said, at the end of the day it all depends on what one enjoys and wants from life. No two people are the same so specific countries/ways of life suit different people better than others. In the end, it's whatever works for you and I'm glad to read that you are enjoying your new life :)

by Matt in Auck | 21st Jun 11, 7:39pm 1308641989

Hi Elley

As you might remember I was seriously looking at opportunities in Aus.

I have now flagged them away. The main reasons were:

- I wouldn't earn much more there than here

- The more I researched and talked to people the more I found that the public school system isn't generally very good there - we seem to have better schooling

Obviously in some professions / industries one can earn much more there than here - the logic of moving stacks up more then

As you say, the decision will be different for everyone.

the only thing that does still concern me about staying in NZ is our longer term fiscal position - and the fact that we are small vulnerable country. One more big earthquake in a relatively big city (eg. Wellington, Tauranga) and the country would be stuffed. I know Aus also gets its natural disasters but a bigger country is better able to absorb them

but there will always be something to worry about anywhere I guess. I guess at the end of the day I generally like NZ with a few reservations, and I see, on balance a good future for the country

In my industry architecture though the projects in Aus are definitely bigger and brighter. So as a profesional its not just about the salary but also the professional challenges, and I think thats often why people go just as much as the salaries . NZ does have limitations in that respect. If I saw a really cool job in Aus I might still go for it

by Dr_Roof_Ron | 21st Jun 11, 8:17pm 1308644226

Agree part of your comment. For roof reapiring, I make about $200.00 per hour, I am happy with that.

Dr Roof Ron

by Amadeus | 22nd Jun 11, 6:54pm 1308725643

Elley, are you working for NZIS? :)

I guess you should differentiate a bit. Europe is not Europe. Every country is different.

Aix-en-Provence is not Paris, Vienna is not London..............

Sorry to say, NZ is poor, people are stressed....worrying about property prices all the time...this website is a prime example. People working long hours at low productivity,

Most larger cities (similar size) I know have less commuting issues. No underground etc.

Land prices and housing multiple times in NZ compared to most parts of Europe that is if you want the same quality (what you will never get). Costs of everyday items higher apart from petrol.

Waterway and lake pollution a national disgrace! I have contacts to a large European environmental organization and will bring the status quo to their attention after my return!!

Good to have patriotism but you still need to be realistic without being pessimistic.

Hyping things up is no solution, critical analysis is required.

My employer, a European multinational trasferred me here to NZ for a three year period.

I don;t know Australia well enough, thus I can't comment how it compares to NZ.

But I worked and lived in North America, a few European countries and Chile. NZ has been an eye opener for me.

I agree, terrorism danger is probably low !!

by hits-and-mist | 22nd Jun 11, 11:32am 1308699156

I wouldn't say that we are the best and brightest but both my partner and I are university educated and have had relatively well-paying jobs for much of our working life. I was made redundant about 8 years ago and my partner about 2 years ago. We have survived since, courtesy of a very modest income from a small business we have set up... it is almost more of a charity then a business! but we get by.

I have worked in Australia (early 80's) and much of Asia... and enjoyed it... but neither of us can imagine wanting to leave NZ again. We have had a big change in lifestyle over the past few years, the biggest being a severe contraction in our 'wants'.... (e.g. when you ain't got the money, you definitely can't have it... so it's best not to want it) and have found that we still have way more than we need and that we love being in NZ more than ever.

My point is almost the opposite of what others are saying.... maybe the rest of the world is the place to go if you want to make money but NZ would have to be one of the best countries in the world in which to be (relatively) 'poor'.

It seems to me that our opportunities are endless and that my children's future is bright. *Maybe* there will be a coming world depression... a massive credit crunch... followed by an energy-constrained future... and those of us who have directed our energies into 'better' rather than 'more'... will have coping strategies (gardens, community, local economies, health, self-directed learning, etc) that will help...

Or *maybe* the future will be filled with anti-matter powered flying cars... and we'll all have a holiday home on Mars... it has become irrelevant... as we have focused more and more on the present.

As Fred Dagg said, "We don't know how lucky we are..."

Awesome country, awesome people...

by Matt in Auck | 21st Jun 11, 11:48am 1308613702

no comment from Jane Turner on the negative impact this will have on the housing market

funny that...............

by TrimChaiLatte | 21st Jun 11, 12:07pm 1308614852

Forget credit, the real problem for the NZ property market starts right here. It’s migration.

The bad new is the figures released are much worse than they appear, as full time international students are counted as incoming arrivals. Take the Asian students out and you are left with some shocking stats.

NZ is totally off the radar for skilled migration as Australia is the better bet in almost every aspect. The low wages vs. high cost of living is the major factor that has changed, but the south island shaking every week doesn’t help!

NZ has always relied on cashed up migrants to prop up the housing market, and I’ll bet it struggles without the constant influx. The average 12,000 that NZ gains annually since the 80s will fall away to a long term negative (as with the last 3 months).

If I was JK I would scrap the Trans Tasman agreement. If you can’t keep them, trap them!!!

by Matt in Auck | 21st Jun 11, 12:56pm 1308617808

You would HAVE to think that the recurring Chch earthquakes would make plenty of potential immigrants think twice about coming here

Its not like we are a massive country like the States where immigrants are able to choose less earthquake prone areas to live in versus California

by Chris_J | 21st Jun 11, 12:29pm 1308616186

Just wait until decisions are made on land - freeing thousands to exodus ChCh.

The complete mismanagement of this disaster is leading to an absolute mass exodus. I expect well over 50,000 would have left ChCh by the time insurances are sorted. Perhaps up to 80,000 (or more if there are more events).

A good portion will head for Australia with no intention of returning.

The Government does not realise how critical the situation is to get this right. Instead of being fair and sensible they initially introduce the "Fletcher's scheme" to screw people down to repairing their houses (many of which were uneconomic or not worth repairing) while waiting for possibly years for work to be done. This was done because they thought it would create stimulus for the economy - exploiting the rights of the insured for the Government's own benefit. Well it all fell flat when it became clear Fletcher's were incapable. Yet the Government still persists with the nonsense.

Most people in ChCh are over it. Not the shaking, but the insurance nightmare. For instance I reckon that our damage at September was about $2m, at Feb another $2m. So far we've received just $300,000. With not a single claim settled fully. The insurers have stolen perhaps $150,000 in interest that rightly we should have earned on those payouts so far and no sign of the theft stopping any time soon.

Now everyone is just angry, so they have no motivation to move forward - everyone just wants out. The situation is so bad and getting worse that it may well cost National a second term. I know I and my family are all life long National voters, and not one of us will be voting National on either the Party or Electorate ticket.

Locking out building owners from the CBD has meant they are all angry and have no motivation to rebuild. Tearing down historic sites with no plans for any restorations has everyone that loved Christchurch angry. Leaving decisions on how to fix land to drag on and on has left homeowners stressed, cold and imprisioned.

We are nearly at the point of no solution, this is when people get angry and Governments get overthrown. Thank God there is an election in November. John Key must now be ruing the day that he set the election so late - just enough time for anger to erupt.

The exodus will simply increase monthly until we are either all gone or a new course is charted.

by Kunst | 21st Jun 11, 12:48pm 1308617316

Chris- you are rising some interesting points.

What wonders me most, despite strong seismic activities including severe liquefaction problems, why is there no evacuation plan in place ? There should be in my opinion more activities with local governments/ authorities to temporarily/ permanently place people/ businesses in safe(r) locations within the Canterbury regions.

In stead of crime and other stupid programs, why is there no coordination/ coverage/ discussion forums in the NZTVmedia in order to help affected people/ families/ businesses ?

by FCM | 21st Jun 11, 12:55pm 1308617747

Chris J you are so right, many people I have spoken to are just waiting on some timelines and confirmation about what will happen to land and then will sort from afar as they realise the process will be a long one. with a heap of red tape.

by FCM | 21st Jun 11, 1:38pm 1308620338

You know Chris, way back after September I pointed out that the government/council response had to be to appoint Logistic professionals, those people who have dealt with systems and processes that handle huge amounts of data/paperwork, it is so obvious that EQC have not employed these sort of people and they themselves that were there prior to September did not have the skills for this (dont really know what models they had been working on for the last 15 years or so).

Spreading the paper/work claims from Australia-Auckland-Wellington and CHC, with no proper central database ,was never going to work if put together in a hastie manner.

by james_chch | 21st Jun 11, 2:51pm 1308624667

"The complete mismanagement of this disaster is leading to an absolute mass exodus."

Not excusing the government, but I think you are giving them more blame than they deserve. You may be right about an exodus, but the main reason for that is the earthquakes, not the bureacracy. Possibly once some decisions have been made and people start getting payouts then we'll get a better picture of just how many people are leaving.

Also, am I right in thinking that there is next to no housing market in Chch at the moment? The reason being that it's not possible to get insurance, and therefore not possible to get a mortgage. So selling up and leaving is very difficult.

by Chris_J | 21st Jun 11, 3:13pm 1308626026

I can't believe you are from ChCh, AND don't believe that Government mismanagment is most of the problem.

90% of this disaster is bureaucratic bungling. Buildings were reoccupied with no thought or work done on strengthening, costing hundreds of lives.

CERA are dumb enough to occupy a building of the same failed construction seen throughout the CBD, the only reason the building survived was because it is located in less affected Papanui. Old unstrengthened buildings in areas like Hornby are occupied despite being located right next to a piece of faultline yet to rupture.

How the hell shops in Colombo and City Mall were allowed to open when not just parapets but whole walls had cracked and fallen in an M4.8 AND those buildings had but the most r\udimentary repairs. It is shameful that a few basic repairs and temporary props on these buildings would have prevented numerous comllapses.

Worse still engineers have produced designs for foundations and indeed whole buildings post Set 4 that have failed spectacularly. There is no excuse for this incompetence, this unwillingness to accept responsibility and the abject failure of those in charge. Mismanagement and incompetence don't begin to describe the results of the vaccuum of leadership.

by james_chch | 21st Jun 11, 3:52pm 1308628324

Technically I'm not from Christchurch, although I have lived here for a few years now. And I don't believe that government mismanagement is most of the problem as I've experienced the quakes directly and I know perfectly well the government didn't cause them.

In the post I was responding to you were talking about insurance claims and bureacracy. But now you are suggesting government incompetence killed large numbers of people? That's an entirely different statement.

by Goron | 21st Jun 11, 3:57pm 1308628650

Hve just heard that Fletchers get paid $35 an hour from the Government but the builder gets a measly $25. The builder says that he and others are going to Australia to earn $45 an hour.

Can anyone verify this?

by rpcas | 21st Jun 11, 4:05pm 1308629139

What do you mean "our" damage? Your commercial building had $4m damage? Your private residence?

Because quite frankly, nobody cares about accrued interest or payouts for buildings other than the family home. The sick thing about the current debacle is that the people most in need of quick and full insurance payouts won't get them, and those that are less needy will get first pickings. I'm guessing your in the latter category.

Don't get me wrong, I am not supporting the insurance companies. I am merely suggesting that people like yourself ought to be less greedy and wait your f**king turn. There are 500,000 + claims to process, and an insurance payout is NOT a helicopter cash drop (like most people want to believe). The insurance process will take years to complete - buckle down for the ride.

by Chris_J | 21st Jun 11, 7:00pm 1308639659

Is it greedy to expect to be paid when someone owes you money?

How about you work for free for the next 5 years, while your employer thinks about how to pay you in a lump sum without interest in 10 years time!!

It has nothing to do with greed or patience. We've been waiting 10 bloody months.

Businesses can't survive if counterparties can't meet their contractual obligations.

The lack of logic in your statements is exactly why ChCh is buggered - those in charge and people like yourself actually don't give a damn.

The fact is the insurers owe us money and they're sitting on it, earing interest.

It doesn't matter if you're owed $50,000 or $50 million the insurers are screwing everyone over through their inaction.

by rpcas | 21st Jun 11, 8:04pm 1308643461

It's not a helicopter drop cash handout!!

You seem to think you can ring up, tell them the building is stuffed, and then expect them reply, "That's fine sir, the $4m will be wired right away".

Your living in a dream world - it works both ways you know. Yes, the insurance companies will do everything in their power to delay and avoid payments, but you must also realize very building owner in the city is trying to bleed them dry.

Tell me how the insurance companies separate the leeches from those who have a genuine case. Even as is it, when it is all said and done this earthquake will be used to cover up horrendous amounts of insurance fraud.

by Chris_J | 21st Jun 11, 9:00pm 1308646835

rpcas, you have no bloody idea.

We have 25 properties, I think we've had 50 plus inspections, between EQC (in some cases twice, others none), NZI assessors, Civil Defence engineers and NZI engineers. Hawkins and Flethchers haven't shown up anywhere yet.

On some properties everyone so far has agreed they are not repairable, yet NZI do nothing. EQC haven't paid there share, it's bloody ridiculous.

It's not a bailout, these are insured losses. We are down nearly $6000pw, that's real money we are insured for and nothings bloody well happening.

It should be illegal to sell insurance and simply buggarise round when it comes to paying out. It would honestly take 15minutes per severely damaged property to make a decision. Instead that take 7 months (YES SEVEN MONTHS) to even acknowledge that there is any damage!

People are not trying to rip insurers off, insurers are ripping customers off by not employing enough staff to do the work.

In my opinion NZI have the worst customer service of any company I have ever dealt with (apart from EQC - but they are a Government Organisation!).

by rpcas | 21st Jun 11, 9:28pm 1308648537

So what was (was being the operative word) the agreement with the insurance company? Are you asking for replacement or the cash? And assuming they are leveraged, are the mortgage payments being made?

"People are not trying to rip insurers off, insurers are ripping customers off by not employing enough staff to do the work."

Ha. And I'm the one who has no bloody idea.....?

"In my opinion NZI have the worst customer service of any company I have ever dealt with..."

Yes, I know dealing with insurance companies is not pretty. But hey, everyone seems to like low insurance costs - you get what you pay for! Insurance is (was) bloody cheap.

by Chris_J | 21st Jun 11, 10:36pm 1308652566

Mate, yes you have no bloody idea. We pay over $26k a year in premiums, so don't tell me I'm taking out cheap insurance.

We have full replacement cover. The policy allows cash out options, but the policy is clearly full replacement - either to repair, rebuild or buy an alternate property up to the cost to rebuild.

And by the way we just had another big bloody quake 1 minute ago!

by Matt in Auck | 21st Jun 11, 1:05pm 1308618312

Chris J - have a lot of sympathy for you guys

My mum is a Cantabrian (good Carter stock), despite being a Wellingtonian Christchurch has always been my favourite city in NZ

I think the Govt response has been appalling

by Chris_J | 21st Jun 11, 3:30pm 1308627027

Well get Mum to give David and Tim a kick in the pants then, Matt!

(I went to school with the young Councillor BTW).

Unfortunately I think that they all believe this will sort itself out, and all that is needed to get things moving is a little bullying. Well all I can say is that they are all mistaken - some things won't sort themselves out.

by rpcas | 21st Jun 11, 4:10pm 1308629419

Agreed, the government response has been appalling. Honestly, I would offer Brownlee's job to Rod Carr (university vice chancellor). The university has handled the crisis exceedingly well.

by Andy Rodgers | 21st Jun 11, 5:25pm 1308633914

Hugh - I have also mentioned this problem of the new CCC civic offices on interest.co.nz before. One of the specifications for this building was that it would be used as the Civil Defence headquarters in the event of a natural disater such as an earthquake. As we now know it is still closed 4 months after the February quake. For non ChCh readers, the CCC only moved into this building in Decemeber 2010.

I left Christchurch in May as I had no confidence in any Governemnt body, whether central or local, being able to successfully solve the problems post-earthquake. However I would remind the voters of Christchurch that they overwhelmingly re-elected Bob Parker as mayor in the election in October 2010, even though his intial 3 year term performance was, in my opinion, disgraceful. I think the civic offices fiasco is just one of many that he is personally responsible for. I wonder what Dave Henderson is doing with the $17 million that the Mayor and the CEO of CCC gave him in August 2008?

by Chris_J | 21st Jun 11, 6:51pm 1308639068

You'd have preferred Anderton?

by Andy Rodgers | 21st Jun 11, 7:55pm 1308642925

Hugh - "whether staff are prepared to move back in to it is problematic."

Believe me the staff will move back in. Working for CCC is one of the cushiest jobs anywhere. The very low level of staff turnover proves this.

"It is extremely serious if they are continueing to pore money in to this thing to sort out its likely extensive problems, without at the very least keeping ratepayers fully informed about what exactly is going on and how much it is all costing"

When has CCC ever cared about keeping ratepayers informed? The Dave Henderson saga was a prime example of CCC behaviour towards ratrepayers.

by Andy Rodgers | 21st Jun 11, 7:59pm 1308643155

Double post.

by HarryM | 21st Jun 11, 4:53pm 1308631992

Not everyone wants to leave...............

http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/5172214/Rare-NZ-emperor-penguin-appearance

What a cutie!!

by aquavk | 21st Jun 11, 8:02pm 1308643371

Money need not be the only thing when someone says better prospects. To me it means working in high technology environments, good progressive managements etc etc. I find such enviromenets are non-existent and management quallty is quite poor to say the least.

by Andrewj | 21st Jun 11, 9:02pm 1308646925

My daughter was at Ilam appartments at the UNI. She is on the top floor. They tell us the building is safe, its concrete. However it has cracks and some are in the ceiling that rain gets in. No matter what they say I find it hard to believe these building are still structuraly sound. They must be weakened especially as they shake every time a bus goes by. My problem is, how despirate are the UNI to continue to operate ,and how far do you push boundaries to keep up appearances. Its a matter of trust.

I had a friend who worked at the CH council he said it was the cushest job he ever had, he got bored and left.

by Andy Rodgers | 22nd Jun 11, 1:49pm 1308707361

Andrewj says - "I had a friend who worked at the CH council he said it was the cushest job he ever had, he got bored and left"

I also worked for CCC for 2 years and my colleagues were amazed when I handed my notice in. It was really money for nothing but as soon as I discovered that I was becoming institutionalised I decided that I could end up the same as my colleagues and finish up there for life. The average age of my fellow workers was 50+ and the majority had only ever worked for CCC. Staff turnover was incredibly low.

by Gummy Bear Hero | 22nd Jun 11, 11:21am 1308698505

The DPB has raised a whole generation of Kiwis , and encouraged their Mommies to shag around willy-nilly , 'cos who needs a regular guy around the house , when the state provides more dosh than he could .

...... That's called " Impregnatisation ! " .......

by Elley | 22nd Jun 11, 11:29am 1308698948

Oh come on, that's a bit harsh ...on regular guys! I have had a look at the relevant website now and it states "The base rate for a sole parent on DPB is $278.04 (after tax) per week."

That's significantly less than what a full-time job would earn, even for someone on minimum wage, so I'm pretty sure the average regular guy can do better than that (and he can take the rubbish out too, among other things, a definite bonus!).

by Elley | 22nd Jun 11, 11:58am 1308700688

I stand corrected...and I'd still pick a regular guy over the DPB :)

by Elley | 22nd Jun 11, 12:38pm 1308703082

I don't (feel bad about it). Have been with my guy for 15 years and it doesn't look like he'll want to leave anytime soon (go figure). What I meant is that I find it hard to believe that the majority of single mothers are single mothers out of choice, as you seem to imply.

Even the larger amount you mention doesn't cut it for me in comparison with having a guy around and sharing the responsibility of raising kids. It's hard enough with 2 parents, I can't imagine how someone would purposedly set out to do it alone.

by Neven911 | 22nd Jun 11, 2:10pm 1308708626

Elly

And due to the Section 27c Social Security Act 1964 you can retire at 50!

See <a href="http://www.workandincome.govt.nz/manuals-and-procedures/income_support/…">Women Alone</a>

Neven

by Elley | 22nd Jun 11, 4:40pm 1308717646

I see! And yet, I'll say that having a man around is worth a lot more than a $750/week incentive and the promise of an early retirement. Maybe I'm just weird :)

by Christov | 22nd Jun 11, 11:38am 1308699514

I think it important to be a regular guy....otherwise things start to back up on you..

by Matt in Auck | 22nd Jun 11, 5:12pm 1308719579

good to see this news got front page treatment in the Herald today, and that they didn't hide it away

Just looking at the figures, they are startling - net loss to Aus this year is WAY higher than the past few years

And only a relatively small proportion is attributable to people leaving from ChCh, which must mean there are plenty of people from other parts of the country including Auckland fleeing to Aus

bad bad news for property bulls