Immigration Minister Ian Lees-Galloway says the Government never had a specific target for cutting immigration numbers, but National says Labour was beating the anti-immigration drum in the election campaign and is now “backsliding on a grand scale”

The Government has been accused of “backsliding on a grand scale” on its immigration plans after the Minister in charge said there is no target for an overall reduction in numbers.

Immigration Minister Ian Lees-Galloway says the Government has always said its focus was on getting immigration settings right, not on slashing net migration figures by a specific number.

“I would encourage people not to focus on the overall number. We’re not focusing on the number. We don’t have a target.”

The most recent figures show annual net migration was a whisker over 70,000 in the year to January.

Before the election, Labour’s immigration policy said if the party was in power, “we will take a breather on immigration”.

Its plans were to limit student and work visas, targeting would-be migrants looking to enrol in “low value” tertiary education courses.

“In total, these changes are estimated to reduce net migration by 20,000-30,000,” Labour’s policy document said.

Before Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern took over as Labour leader, Andrew Little was striking a much stronger tone on the issue.

“Labour will make changes to immigration settings that will reduce net immigration by 20,000-30,000 a year,” he said in a June speech, titled: 'Time for a breather on immigration'.

Lees-Galloway says Labour’s modelling before the election, which was done without the “machinery of Government,” predicted the policies “could have an impact of between 20,000 and 30,000”.

He says Labour needed to have an estimated figure as the first thing the media would have asked after the policy was unveiled was “what’s going to be the impact on numbers”.

Now that he’s the Minister, he says he is still waiting on detailed advice from officials on how the policies will impact immigration.

The Labour/NZ First Coalition document didn’t list any targets or estimates of by how much the policies would reduce immigration.

“As per Labour’s policy, [the Government will] pursue Labour and New Zealand First’s shared priorities to: Ensure work visas issued reflect genuine skills shortages and cut down on low-quality international education courses and take serious action on migrant exploitation, particularly of international students.”

In an interview with Reuters late last year, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said Labour’s migration figures were an estimate, not a target.

Playing politics

Despite this, National’s immigration spokesman Michael Woodhouse says the Government is playing politics with the numbers.   

“Ian Lees-Galloway is on record as saying we need to take a breather [on immigration] and we need to turn the tap down.

“For him to turn around now and to say that their goal was not to meet a specific net migration target, but simply to make policy changes that would have that effect, is a form of backsliding on a grand scale.”

But Lees-Galloway accuses Woodhouse of “fear mongering” on this issue.

“This is mischievous from National as we were absolutely clear about what the policy was before the election; our intention was to improve the immigration system and we were not fixated on numbers.”

Immigration numbers to fall regardless

The Reserve Bank’s February Monetary Policy Statement forecasts immigration numbers to fall by around 30,000 over the coming years.

“As the labour market in Australia strengthens, we assume departures from New Zealand will increase. Consistent with an anticipated tightening in visa requirements, arrivals are assumed to fall from their recent elevated levels.”

Westpac is expecting immigration to drop by 50,000 “just on natural forces” with the visa changes made by the Government accounting for a further 10,000 fall – taking the total annual net migration to just 10,000 by 2020.

Lees-Galloway acknowledges immigration will soon start to taper off naturally.

“I’m already getting predictions from MBIE that, even without any changes, we can anticipate a fall in long-term migration.”

He says that is being driven by fewer students obtaining residency and some of the changes the previous Government made to “tighten up the international education sector".

“We can expect, over the next 12 months, to see a small reduction in overall migration because of those factors and some others as well.”

We welcome your help to improve our coverage of this issue. Any examples or experiences to relate? Any links to other news, data or research to shed more light on this? Any insight or views on what might happen next or what should happen next? Any errors to correct?

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This chart shows a much fuller picture than just net immigration. Circa 2011 we can see even though net immigration is near zero kiwis are still being replaced. Things are in a very sad state. I look around the office at lunch and you have the Singapore table, the China table, the Brazil table etc. It's easy to see where this trend of segregation leads; segregated suburbs, political parties, businesses and schools.

Yet when Seymour had the great idea to allow in immigrants that do actually fit in (South Africans) it was shot down by Labour-NZF.

It's really not that difficult if the will is there. Cut off the family anchors. Cut off the "business school" back door path to residency. Raise the points required for skilled migrant visas. Remove "chef", "retail manager" and other non-sense from the shortage lists.

Even if immigration were cut there are certain groups that are having more kids than the average New Zealand couple who can barely pay a mortgage with two incomes. This needs to stop. I don't care if the faux GDP goes down the toilet.

What makes South Africans so special that they ‘fit in’? I find some of their cultural norms quite different to Kiwis. For some reason I feel more connected to Zimbabweans.

Indeed, incredibly different; Canadians, Brits, Irish, Europeans, Aussies, and big city coastal US (California mostly) are probably the most like the kiwi culture.


'most like the Kiwi culture' - but proponents of immigration emphasise diversity. Brits like myself arrived in large numbers for decades after the war and NZ sank down the OECD ladder of economic success. Now we have had decades of mainly Asian immigration and despite the increased diversity the result has been the same but house prices went up and at the bottom salaries went towards 3rd world. Meanwhile countries with minimal diversity have done well: Japan, Korea, Taiwan.

True indeed!! As soon as the New Zealand locals wake up from the multiculturalism and open borders is good bs. The sooner we will see standard of living improving again. I often aspire the japs because after all the economic stagnation they endured over the last 30 years their standards of living is still relatively good compared with other nearby nations. I can't help but think is all due to the will of the people working together as one nation that is what keeping them still afloat. This can never happen under multiculturalism as there would be to many different values to come together.


@ex expat , to be fair , South Africans are different to Kiwis , but English speaking South Africans and Zimbabweans are basically all descendants of English settlers................ just like Aussies and Kiwis of English , Welsh , Scots or Irish descent .

These English speaking migrants do settle well here.

They bring skills and trades they learnt in a language we all understand from Doctors, dentists, surgeons, Engineers, Architects to Air traffic controllers at Auckland Airport ( packed with South Africans and Zimbabweans ) , they have received and education much like ours , they often are registered with British professional bodies ( Like the Royal College of Surgeons or the UK Chartered Institute of Land surveyors , etc )

These are skills and qualifications we recgonize and need ............ desperately

I employ some South Africans , they are not wealthy ( their money is worthless), they arrive at work and get on with their work , they are not clock watchers , they dont complain much at all , and do have similar interests and importantly stay out of jail .

They are also not immigrants hell bent on property speculation with hot money out of Asia which has distorted house prices and created a crisis .

They also dont start businesses in Dominion Road , and fail to pay their taxes .

And they treat their womenfolk as equals unlike migrants from Islamic countries .

There is no need to knock any immigrant class , they are all good for us , but we do need to slow down the rate of immigration until we have the ability to cope with the numbers

I’ve spent enough time with other cultures to appreciate that they all have pluses and minuses based against the Kiwi norm (morphing in any case). I was just surprised that someone proposed South Africans as similar enough to Kiwis to warrant preferential immigration.

I welcome any immigrants that respects, values and complies with the rule of law with minimal guildence by law enforcement officers. Something you will never get out of Muslims since they are so hell bent on their own law and will enforce their own rules when ever they get a chance to. My advise is never give Islam an inche for they will take a mile!!!

I'll just leave this here...


If people from non-western countries wish to come here, they must assimilate. That means leaving some of the cultural specific clothing and discriminatory beliefs behind. This is a secular society, no place for religious bigotry against the so-called infidels by an intolerant culture.

Also, if you over populate and pollute your own homeland, don't expect NZ to be a safety valve for you and your 10 kids.

Canton: I do prefer to attack our mad, excessive and exploitative immigration policy which does no good for NZ productivity and positive harm to poorly paid Kiwis. And I agree different cultures are actually different (listening to some of our academics you would think it only means food and sport). However I do think you are getting too near to discrimination on 'foreigners looking foreign'.
I'm an atheist but NZ has had a long religious tradition with the church being the main force linking Maori with European. In the past Catholics were discriminated against because they might wear a crucifix on a necklace. I have no problem with Sikhs in turbans and women in headscarves (recently I was about to point out a bench full of what looked like Muslim women to a friend when I suddenly realised they were actually nuns!).
I don't mind different religions, or immigrants maintaining strange traditional clothing and dances (just a variation on the Caledonian societies).
I don't mind large families - they would have trouble matching the Europeans who arrived in the 19th century and had families of a dozen or more. Of course we are now a welfare state so immigrants ought to be paying their way with schooling, accommodation allowances, etc).
But you are right about obeying our laws; that has to be assimilated and judging by the handful of Indians, Chinese, Melanesians and Filipinos I know they are almost desperate to be Kiwis and get away from their old corrupt governments.

So to boil it all down you stand for nothing. Whether you admit it or not this is a fact: if you let in people from a very collective background they will not give one thought about your western values. They do not care for individualism and equality. What they will do is seek more power and resources for their group. You only need take a look at London to see that. Your ideals are cute. Some people love having pet tigers and snakes. It's all lovely until it's not.

I upvoted you till I got to the bit about South Africans and how they "fit". Let me guess, they fit because they are white and they are pretty racist.

Had enough?


Sounds a bit like a broken election promise to me, like building 100'000 affordable homes

... I'd be surprised if they even managed to build just 1 " affordable " home ...

The remainder of the 100 000 will be just the 00 000 's ....

... so much easier to be in opposition ; and to cackle , heckle & promise from the sidelines isn't it , team Labour !

They'll get to the 10th year and order 100,000 of these

They will have doubled in price by then.

" Lees-Galloway ? " .... hmmmm ....that sounds rather Chinese to me ... best we call Phil " the Tool Man " Twyford and have him grill this Lees-Galloway wallah on his parentage .... could be a fiendish plot to buy all our houses out from under us ...

So, playing the old "modelling before the election, which was done without the “machinery of Government" card.

This is the problem or benefit, not sure which, of two party democracies. When you ascend the tower of power your horizon broadens and you see the same view as the previous government.

Geez, this Labour Coalition government wouldn’t back track,on any election promises would it?
If the people that voted them in still believe that they have done the best thing for NZ then you are deluded.
Unfortunately for this country, we have people in power than really have got no idea whatsoever of running a business.
It is going to set NZ back hugely until they are out of power.

I agree. The kind of dreamy claims and promises Labour-NZF made pre-election sounded like they thought they weren't going to win. Now that they are in the government, reality has struck them on the practicality of these promises that cannot be solved by shoving taxpayers' hard-earned money at.
I am not siding with the Nats on this either: I believe both governments have been equally spineless when it comes to making the tough decisions.

TM2,see below an article from Fran Wilde about David Parker's previous role in the business world.
**Note-A2 Milk is now the biggest company on the would you say he has no idea??

The Cabinet Minister talked about how he was interested in the journey of the companies as they sought capital for themselves, and liquidity and price maximisation for their shareholders. His background included a long time as an experienced CEO and a company director across a range of industries before going into politics, and in a number of start-up businesses in New Zealand agritech and biotech.

"As CEO I took one of them to the main board of the the stock exchange. I was one of the founders — and did due diligence — and was one of the first two employees of a2."

This record is probably news to NewstalkZB host Mike Hosking, who piled into the Ardern Cabinet this week, saying he couldn't think of any of them who had ever actually done anything in the private sector — "owned a business, employed people? You know, dealt with the real world?"

Hosking was wrong on the facts.

If you are going to talk facts vman, then get them right. Go back to Dunedin of 20 years ago and see the collection of half baked schemes Parker was involved in. Hapless is the right description for those.
A2 ? That then was just Howard farming a few gullible investors.


Lying Bastards !

They campaigned on reining in immigration ............. in fact all 3 of the coalition partners did .

Even I was conned into voting for NZ First by the silky smooth voice of Winston Peters saying in his words "he would hit the pause button ' on immigration .

We really need a Vote of No Confidence in Parliament as soon as possible .

you mean "reining" of course
check or guide (a horse) by pulling on its reins.
"he reined in his horse and waited"
The lying "horse" has bolted, and never had any ability to drastically reduce immigration, save the environment and alleviate the housing crisis

LOL you know what I mean .

Like the skit on the parrot that died

You voted NZF lol!

That'll learn you!

At worst they will be no better than National

They are already worse.


I know it was the first time I ever went out of my comfort zone and voted against National.

At least I voted ............ it gives me the right to complain ........... bitterly

Oh I see, fair enough. I was in the same boat, almost voted labour even. But the more I looked at their policies the more unlikely I saw any of it happening without making things worse. Here's hoping we have better options next time.

but will we, national campaigned on no changes to immigration,
so we have no party that will reduce the numbers to vote for.
the divide has already started .
when i talk to born and bred aucklanders of 40+ they all moan about too many people too many cars and too many houses and loss of the space everywhere you go are crowds
when i talk to new immigrants they talk about how empty Auckland is and needs more people, but they too complain about the traffic and lack of mass transport to get around

Shit happens. There are choices.

Well Boatman since you are part of the problem then it should fall on your shoulders to start a petition for the people of NZ to declare that they have No Confidence in the coalition.

It seems to me that NZF voters have issues with foreigners and took that issue to the voting have got the government you deserve...pity about the rest of us who have to endure the circumstances you've placed upon us!

I've looked into this already. The Citizens Initiated Referenda Act 1993 allows for citizens to propose a referendum. These are non-binding referendums on any issue in which proponents have submitted a petition to Parliament signed by ten percent of all registered electors within 12 months.

You'd need around a thousand signatures a day.

That shouldn't be too difficult given the reach of social media and

Come on Boatman lets do this!!

totally pointles.. non-binding.. have the govt ever paid any attention to a non-binding citizens initiated referendum? I seem to recall that every single one has been ignored.

Yes very disappointing.
Reducing immigration was one of 3-4 key reasons I voted for them

So what have we really got with the COL? It seems like more of the same except feasting time for the Teachers and Unions, plus buying a few student votes and helping sell magazines. The accidental PM seems to be spending as much time away from her desk as possible, and Winston has backed the Russians who inconveniently allegedly assassinated someone on Bristish soil. You couldn’t make this stuff up.

This could have been written:

"National Party claims that the government has backtracked on its immigration policy are unfounded according to Reserve Bank predictions that annual numbers will fall to 30,000 in coming years from the current 70,000 plus figures."

Why does the media give such weight to untested claims by opposition parties. This is a relic of our stupid, outdated adversarial system. We need co-operation, substance and a collegial attitude.

On an aside, what appalling racism from some commentators. We are a Pacific/Asian nation, not a satellite of some remote Former imperial power.

Set the immigration targets according to what the country needs and leave ethnicity out of it. Migrants do need to be educated about our values and broader way of life, though.

Interesting that 'Pacific/Asian' nation. The nearest Asian country is half a world away. Even in North Shore Auckland the population is still predominately of European origin although most quite rightly prefer to call themselves Kiwis or Pakeha. Admittedly the current rate in immigrants in and Kiwis out will change us into a blended Asian nation eventually (Chinese/Indian/Filipino) with a Pacific tinge but only if the policies of the last 20 years continue unabated.

In all the continent models, from four to seven in total, Australia is its own continent which we are part of. Not sure why they want us absorbed into Asia as Africa and Europe are more "Asian" as you can actually walk there from those places. In the four continent model you have one continent called Afro-Eurasia.

I prefer the very recent definition of continents based on mobile continental plates - makes NZ a special continent of its own. We broke of from Australia 100million years ago. Or more recently politically.

Pietro, stop pulling out the racist card. This stifles debate about immigration, both in terms of numbers and in terms of where they come from.
Our country is whatever we want it to be, and we are not beholden to any higher moral power that will label us racist.
My opinion in this democracy is that culture should be a major factor on where immigrants come from. This is not racist. Also, the sheer numbers over a short period of time do not allow assimilation.

We may be a Pacific/Asian nation although that's hugely arguable however most immigrants choose NZ because it is a satellite of some remote Former imperial power. I don't think that can be denied.

I think its more seen as a way into to a close neighbour of ours than any interest over links to the UK these days.

ah godwins law at work, if you want to stop the debate claim its racist, next step compare commentators to Nazis to try to shut it down.
apart from the south African reference most commentators are talking about numbers and it does matter where people come from with ideals and religions as that effects how we shape our services and the costs of providing those.
take religion, we have a bigger population of different religions that need to be catered for in hospitals, prisons, police stations, schools and guess what it all costs extra money and that money comes from joe taxpayer.
so yes we do need a conversation about how many people we let in and from where because it effects us all

Serious question: What number persons would be the absolute maximum NZ could sustainably accomodate with our challenges of geographical isolation and limited natural resources to exploit to fund us?
Next, What's the IDEAL absolute population number (presumably a smaller number).
These questions should be considered first - otherwise we could easily surpass this figure chasing GDP and find our prosperity and quality of life negatively impacted.

whaddya mean "find" - the operative word is "found"

Are you quite sure you want the answer to that question?

Because given the vast amount of food we produce but don't eat ourselves, and our very low population density in terms of people per square kilometre, I would imagine that the answer to your question is a number very, very much higher than NZ's actual current population.

Wrong, if we tried to be self reliant, we probably already have too many people. We need more than food, we trade much of our food for all the other necessities of modern life.

There's no simple answer to that question.
It partly depends on what you mean by sustainable.
And having natural resources doesn't necessarily matter. What natural resources does Singapore have, for example?

We could also compare NZ to other countries of a simialr geographical size, e.g. the UK with 67 million people, or Japan with 127 million. Seen in this light, why couldn't NZ have 20, 30 or 40 million? There would be huge economies of scale, but there would be a big price to pay.

It doesnt matter if you are so deluded. Singapore is clearly in a state it cannot feed itself nor look after its population is if was a closed system, but then so is say the UK I suspect and indeed much of the world.

What makes my comment deluded?
As you hint, much of the world (I would say virtually all) belongs to an open system.
In an open system it doesn't matter if you can't grow all your food, as long as you can pay your way.

In terms of food my rough calc is around 5million without oil.

Why only 5 million?
During WW2 the UK sustained a population of 47.5 million for several years in the face of a blockade.
It wasn't easy, but the population coped, and it was arguably healthier than it is now.

You are ignoring the imports of food and oil. So the UK was not sustainable off its own land area without considerable inputs into its system.

Today NZ feeds 20million ie exports food for 15million (ish) using considerable oil and gas. So to break it down roughly,

a) the "Green revolution" where we used oil products to boost food production x3 We are at peak oil and oil is gone from the world by 2050 and 2040 is quite possible.

So that 20million /3 = we can feed 6.67million without oil and gas.

b) The effects of climate change on food production is estimated at around 25%

6.67million / 4 * 3 = 5million.

So there is my number, now it could be 4million, it could be 6 or maybe even 8million but I dont see if being 20million or anything near it.

It is a very rough calculation as I as a layman are pulling the known effects and data from all over the place as I find it in academic papers.

There are a lot of things I have not considered like,

a) what % of that 20/5 million is fish? as by 2050 I expect fish stocks to have collapsed.

b) Loss of fertilizer raw materials, ie we go organic in nature eg.,

As a comparison we do have a real life country that has already gone through its own "peak oil" after the collapse of the USSR, Cuba. If interested you can look up this on youtube.

NZ actually is in quite a good position to keep going but it will be tough, assuming we dont get a "swamped lifeboat" scenario.

Please lets separate the two issues: numbers of immigrants and exploitation of immigrants.
My opinion is we should cut numbers and we should raise skills (=wages) but that is an opinion that I'm happy to see other contributors disagree with it. It is the exploitation, rorts, fraud and corruption that has to be the priority issue. I condemn Woodhouse for ignoring it for all the years he was minister and now deciding numbers is a better political argument. And I condemn Lees-Galloway for doing nothing in his first half year of being in power.
Admittedly our minister has said it is so extensive that his inspectors cannot handle it. How that wasn't the no1 issue for a Labour minister I cannot fathom. How do honest businesses survive in modern NZ? What pay rate will be offered to my children who are looking for work in Auckland but have minimal qualifications? Who will offer them jobs if they can force an immigrant to do the same job for peanuts?

How do you expect to enforce laws around exploitation? Prevention is always the easier option. If you have tens of thousands of people willing to be exploited because they have no other choice then of course it's going to happen off the radar. Difficult and expensive to police.

Why do these people get exploited? There is high demand for jobs because they know they can get their entire family over if they manage to put down one resident anchor. The immigrants are often under a lot of pressure from their families who pay for them to come here and "study".

How can you separate the "two issues" when exploitation is directly linked with supply of visa-mill immigrants. We can treat the symptom to an extent but you're avoiding the elephant in the room. That is every time someone from the third world comes to NZ the country becomes a little bit more like the third world. Case in point the exploitation is usually done by old immigrants exploiting new immigrants.

If the quality and quantity is adjusted correctly the exploitation will drop as a consequence. Therefore you're right to want to cut numbers and increase skills.

The real crux of the matter is the exploiters are not providing jobs - they are the front-line sellers of black-market residency - yep they hold out the hope of residency to those who are unable to come in the front-door - its a black-market, where the reward goes to the exploiters not NZ

Until they choke that off the suckers will keep coming and the spivs will keep profiting

We actually don't let all that many people in from the "Third World" now known as Least Developed Countries. Apparently the term is now an outdated boomerism
You probably mean from all countries that are not highly developed industrialized nations or Westernized nations.

Least Developed.. that sounds like an insult, you are practically calling them retarded.. er differently abled in the mental realm.. I thought it was Emerging Markets/Economies. Meh, can't keep up with the latest SJW newspeak for poor brown people. Or disabled/differently abled or whatever the current PCism is.

Students and graduates are forking out $1000 to undertake unpaid internships with a one in 64 success rate of picking up a full-time job and which don't even take place at the company's office. But the firms involved insist they are simply providing the training universities have failed to deliver to prepare technology, business and engineering graduates for the real working world

Bilbo: easy to separate.
Step 1. that should have been announced the day labour gained power was increase labour inspectorate;
Step 2 do the same as Australia and match IRD earnings with immigration approvals (that digs out so called 'skilled' workers on labourer's wages and identifies the drug dealers who arrived 9 years ago but never paid any taxes - they were caught by the police not by IRD or INZ!);
Step 3 - charge all employers of foreigners a substantial fee - won't bother IT companies employing Geeks but would make some industries more interested in training Kiwis (dairying, Care homes, fast food). Also help the governments tax collection.

Do those 3 simple things that involve no parliamentary approval so could be done today and the issue of excessive numbers might be solved too. If fact if net immigration actually stopped we might be actually advertising for immigrants! When did you last hear of a top Indian IT engineer preferring NZ to California, NY or London?

Iain Lees-Galloway press release Sept 2016: ""It’s time for National to admit that they have broken the immigration system. Vulnerable migrants are being exploited and wages are being suppressed. Michael Woodhouse needs take swift action to crack down on exploitative employers by properly resourcing labour inspectors and reviewing the immigration settings.""

So he does know what has to be done but he has either changed his mind or has decided it is less important than other matters.

Actually I heard Immigration Minister Iain Lee-Galloway on the radio earlier this week telling immigrants to join unions to avoid exploitative working practices. This is fine until you realise that he's shirking his departments responsibility in managing immigration outcomes.

Sounds fine until you realise people from a non-welfare state will put up with a lot of exploitation rather than return home and that the main employers of immigrants are in non-Unionised businesses - fast food, cleaning, etc.
The solution is to charge employers for employing foreigners then they will begin to employ Kiwis. Don't use the red herring about low unemployment rates (~4%) - in NZ employment means 1hour per week; the under-employment figure is over 11% - other words one in nine Kiwis would take on more work if available.

In effect, Lees-Galloway is saying that no number uttered by Labour before the election has any status because the numbers were plucked out of the air without the "machinery of Government" to verify them.

Seems like we can look forward to furious back-pedalling by the CoL on any or all of their election promises.

A lot of travellers got on the Labour bus in the final weeks of the election campaign

Now waiting, they find the wheels have come off, and, they are now getting off the bus

True, so for those who voted for reducing our immigration rate to being similar to an average OECD country (that is by three quarters) who do we vote for? Labour is out unless they keep their promise; National obviously out, NZF is out too, and the Greens - they back-pedalled like mad and want to replace immigrants with refugees. It leaves just TOP and that means swallowing some interesting policies.

Sounds like a big backslide from Labour. I remember many times during the election them saying they would reduce immigration by 20,000 to 30,000. Also Winston saying a target of 10,000.

It's a vital issue given its huge impact on NZs housing crisis and infrastructure bottlenecks. Now no action has been taken and the numbers are gone. Come on...

You forgot to mention the Green Party's stance on cutting immigration.
James Shaw said in a pre-election interview that if in government he would regulate the annual increase in population to a sustainable one-percent for infrastructure growth to catch up.
That's one percent overall growth, half of which comes from natural increase so he was in favour of bringing immigration down to half a percentage point from the current 1.5-1.6% annual rate (20 to 30k a year).

Those big talkin' opposition benchers' at it again!

Another nail in the coffin ....
As time goes by this CoL will backpedal on most ill-thought and stupid ideas and pledges dictated to them by the propaganda doctors in the heat of the elections .... They were in opposition long enough to know how the "machinery of Government" works --- so they are not only Lazy and Silly, but they lied to us all ... took power by deception and used the talkative Jacinda's smile and image along with long shot promises they knew they couldn't keep .... Ian Lees-Galloway, is joining PT and GR in floundering around ....

In time, as additional revelations will uncover the exaggerated campaign the CoL run -- some NZers will feel like fools who have been taken for a ride , the rest will feel sorry for a lost term of opportunities and advancement ....a hefty price to prove that the emperor is wearing no clothes ... however , this lot has been given the benefit of the doubt and so far proven they are unworthy of the trust ....

Fool me once, shame on You -- fool me twice, Shame on Me !

Seems to a lot of people National rode along Jonkeys "smile & image" for a long time...
I think you will have to accept in politics,pragmatism is important,I think you will find they are looking for a soft landing,easing on the breaks.You would be the first to complain if they stopped immigration tomorrow,collapsed the housing market...and bearing in mind,any coalition requires compromise AFTER all the electioneering is over.As I have said in previous posts,it is like turning an ocean liner around,it has to happen slowly...

That would exactly be the excuse of a losing ocean liner captain when he is parking his ship with no manual and by trial and error ....

I would have agreed with you and most NZers are indeed patient, If there was a plan .... there is non, what CoL is doing is following the "old bad" National plans and, nothing fundamentally new of what they promised to do, is being done:

On the immigration front - they cannot do anything more than what is inplace now - they cannot shoot themselves in the foot and there will be more coming under different titles:

On the housing front: PT discovered how Gov and investment machinery worked and is hiding behind building few State houses here or there and committees etc....6 months + 9 years in opposition and barking hard about the 100,000 homes with crocodile tears -- and still no plan, or an indication of a plan ! .. In fact his claims have been challenged by almost all relevant professional bodies !

On homelessness ...all of a sudden all reports and docos have disappeared , no one mentions the 40,000 homeless people anymore,.. just highlight the $20M pw spending on AS and god knows what else , and of course blame National --- are all the homeless satisfied now? --- where is the barking mad Salvation Army, Auckland mission, and other Charities .... what has changed ? ...Nothing - Are there any plans for change ? ----- or planning will take another 12-18 months?.

See, all the above just makes you think that all these people wanted is to take power and move into office .... and when they did , they were shocked !! ----
I doubt NZers will give this CoLs another chance to stir the ship around especially after the old fox retires and the Greens are well exposed for doing nothing other than satisfying their ego....and splashing money on tree huggers

Michael Cullen hints to prep up an asset tax system to keep Gov income steady during future hard times when income from other tax and GST dries out - in other words keep splashing out money as there is no tomorrow ....and punish those who do well and invest in their future ... UBI principle is totally different and takes a long time to achieve and it does not rob Peter to pay Paul.

So yes, this liner is huge , but sailed by amateurs with No plans...

And exactly WHAT was the Nats plan??
It was plainly obvious that when JK jumped ship,he too realised there was no end game to just selling houses to each other at ever increasing prices,he saw the writing on the wall and being the a pragmatist with a massive ego,there was no way he was going to hang around to see his popularity waning,so he like a cowardly Italian/ Greek cruise liner Captain was the 1st in the life boat...

"And exactly WHAT was the Nats plan??

Nothing! same as Labour. Hence the problems with our country.

Everyone still believes we are a two party FPP system. Maybe this will finally be the wake up the average voter needs.


Labour campaigned on reducing immigration by 30,000 a year, building 10,000 new houses a year and banning foreign buyers.

They haven't delivered on any of these and have let their voters down.

No no no , Delboy its worse than you suggest ........ ALL 3 members of the COL ( COALTION OF LOSERS ) undertook to reduce immigration , build affordable housing for everyone , ban foreign buyers , and a host of other promises that even someone with the imagination of Walt Disney could not have dreamt up.

We dont even have a plan , white paper ............ nothing !

All we have is a shambles , and pregnant PM who was not honest with us , and Cheshire cat for a deputy who is renowned for his dishonesty .

A labour party conference that turns out to be something akin to a drunken orgy of underage drinking sex and who knows what else .

Jacinda throwing money around the Pacific islands when we have homelessness right here in Auckland

Pissing the Aussies off by poking her pointy little nose into their affairs

Offerring to take a bunch of riotous violent criminals as refugees

We really need a vote of no -confidence to get rid of this Government AS SOON AS POSSIBLE

I checked an old copy of the Herald from last year...and correct me if I am wrong,but it appears the Nats & Act(Also known as David Seymour) were in fact the coalition of losers LOL.
You need to relax and enjoy the ride,you guys are soooo stressed,you will have a heart attack before you get the chance to vote them out in 3 years...

It is part of the lefts strategy to cause heart attacks it looks slightly better than people poisoned on park benches. They won't rid of any thing that walks, talks or act like a capitalist gone.......
State slavery is not something one should enjoy or be relaxed about.....

A coalition of idiots (COI) moaning that their team didn't win. I thought the left were the whiny snowflakes?

"and pregnant PM who was not honest with us"

What on earth do you mean? Our holy PM would never lie. When asked in the debates "Do you lie" she said "no". So there you have it, straight out of the horses mouth.

Taxinda is opening an arts building at my son’s school on Friday. That’s about her competence level. I will ask my son for a debrief that evening to make sure there’s been no politicking. I expect the protocol is to have the local MP attend as well. Tamaki is a National stronghold so I’m not sure she’d bother coming unless it’s to influence teenage minds. A bit like the camp they’ve just had, albeit no alcohol and whatever else young Labour get up to.

Labour wins and then the property spruikers get ansee... Is that all political "leanings" amount to? Low brow rationale.

The softening stance on immigration reductions, Kiwibuild and foreign buyer ban is actually a win for property investors.

Pre-election promises by any party always turn into watered down realities.

Time will tell with Kiwibuild, et al. At least the nature of the debate is "yes, we have a problem as a country". That's a colossal improvement on flat out denial. I'm happy as a matter of principle - that Labour (not in denial of a housing crisis) is in control for a spell.

I once said gullible voters and was told being arrogant.

Gullible stupid AND naive .............. anyone who believed the policy statements of the 3 COL making up our current Government , were just delusional

Its funny that NZF and Greens are nowhere to be seen or heard ! ... are they ashamed? or just enjoying single malt and green tea on a nice pay .... errr

Greens news here for you, not hard to find,

Don't go looking for it, eh? Just rely on the lack of information from the media and blame the Greens. Good onyer.

Presumably you would same the same about those who believed the previous government's claim that there was no housing crisis- the crisis that Collins is now berating this government for not solving quickly enough.

I would prefer to be polite,but that is hard to do in your case. You are an idiot.

As i said above I voted for Labour and am very disappointed.
Having said that, I voted for John Key when he was first elected, he campaigned and promised to me personally that he would sort the housing mess out...
Whether red or blue our masters have some poor records of delivering on 'promises'

I am just curious to know what exactly people think that the current opposition would be doing that is so much better.You are all whining on that the changes aren't happening immediately,you should be happy,the sky hasn't fallen in,markets haven't should be happy.
Have a look at the Nats website,look at their team.Those that say Labour has no skills in business.
Bridges=lawyer,Adams=lawyer,Collins=lawyer....and best of all Deputy dawg Bennet doesn't even list any skills in her bio,but does say her interests are cooking,music & chardonnay...Minister of a Party time by the sound of it.

National has got some soul searching to do. Negative feedback to a proactive approach is quickly becoming a drag and looking out of touch. They need to come clean in light of the mood for, at least some, change. I'd rather have those who have some experience and expertise in the Government with issues like negative environmental impacts and climate change on our doorstep. NZ needs to act, not spruiker the numbers for another decade.

And exactly WHAT was the Nats plan??
It was plainly obvious that when JK jumped ship,he too realised there was no end game to just selling houses to each other at ever increasing prices,he saw the writing on the wall and being the a pragmatist with a massive ego,there was no way he was going to hang around to see his popularity waning,so he like a cowardly Italian/ Greek cruise liner Captain was the 1st in the life boat...

You quickly realise that being Prime Minister wasn't about JK looking after the future of the people of New Zealand, it was about John realising a childhood dream....there's a big difference. My observation is that often the best leaders are those who don't want to do it - while those who do, will often do (literally) anything to get it and keep it...(including destroying relationships, personal values, health...)

Proactive approach? Seriously?

The PM refuses to answer questions on topics she hasn't agreed to.

The Deputy PM has never given a straight answer to a straight question in his entire life.

And the Deputy Leader of the Labour Party can only answer questions with the help of a ventriloquist.

Hmmmmm....ditto for the Nats deputy....I am sure when you see her and Bridges together,that he is in fact her illegitimate love child...both westies,they appear to be sporting the same hair styles now...


It's looking bad for National's when the Green's talent is intellectually show them up! Tree huggers, eh? The ball is in their court now. Just turn on the TV. Sage, Jenter, and Shaw are clearly the sort of people who have put in the intellectual effort to understand the situation re environment and green energy and it's commercial opportunities. We need expertise in Government on this.

As for Tax, the base needs to broaden to support changes above, re looking for smart resources management.

See how the opinion polls pan out....

Seriously, the Donald Duck Party could make this coalition look as weak as it is!
How anyone can defend the coalitions pathetic performance since they have been in Defies logic!
Are any of the coalition supporters better off than before the election?
Such a pathetic system we have in that allows 3 loser parties to join together to oust a government by world standards did a great job over the last 9 years.
Yes house prices went up but if you can’t buy a house then you wouldn’t have been able to buy one u der a Labour government either.
The coalition supporters will realise what a bunch of incompetents we have in power!
Have a look at them when they have to answer a question, they have no idea about anything.
Geez as I have said before this lot are going to end up the most despised government in NZ history bar none!,you are one stressed puppy...take a chill pill.
The system is what NZer's voted for and had Winny gone with the nats,you would be extolling the virtues of the system.What you should be thinking about,is how the the most successful government in the world got it so wrong,perhaps a little arrogance got in the way.
This lot will have to work hard to be the most despised,the bar has been set pretty high by previous governments from both sides.

LOL .... you might need a pill too Vman .... do you like to lower the bar so the loser incompetents can cross it ?.... Haha... it just proves that it is indeed been set pretty high for the amateurs.

Ok ... stupid banter aside, No one wants a Gov to fail - No one wants the country to fail ... no matter what color or how they came about .... Most of us do not like to lose what was gained and would like to see improvement for everyone to prosper .... and that is the fact of the matter ....

However, when liers and incompetent people take the helm and take us all back, then we should all try to correct the situation and take them to task .... especially when we note that this lot is doing practically nothing and don't seem to have a clue of what to do next when the money dries out ...they keep repeating the same lies and claims and shed the same tears .... so we are worried --- as we can see no real action and real plan leading to wh they are yet again promising ... ( i.e. they take us for fools who could believe anything !) and that's not ON!

Forget National, they did what they did and got us here ... and the CoL came with all guns blazing and Won, Great ... show time, .... show us the money !! ... don't fool us with yet other promises and delays and Gov machines and all that BS ... a 6 month honeymoon is long enough in any relationship ....and this lot is now overstaying their welcome !

To be honest,I am reasonably agnostic politically,I am happy to see where we go in 3 years,the mood of the electorate had changed and wanted a change in direction,3 term incumbents invariably get stale.
I almost feel some of the previous administration are happy to be on the other side of the fence for a while,as people say,a whole lot easier to throw barbs from the outside.I hope for all our sake that this great country pulls together and we all prosper :-)


Why did John Key leave if everything was so great. He bailed on his supporters. Poor form. He got into politics to get the international kudos and connections. Obviously, his own man not his country.

People like JK because they coveted his money.

I like my politicians of the people for the people. It's not hard to act as if even.

This Government will set the direction of the country for the next 30, just like the 87 one did. Political landscape is different but not the same need for redirection.

Simply unbelievable.
Roll on the housing crisis & minimal gdp per capita growth.
What is Labour so scared of. The fall in the exchange rate will offset the drop in aggregate demand.

The politicians cant be trusted with the immigration rate. Give it to the RBNZ to manage as a macroprudential tool.

Labour are scared of the exact same thing most politcal parties are, lack of growth. None has the guts to face the fact that growth has to come to a halt, and start looking at how we prosper without it. They all fear that the general populace will be terrified by such things. We are still addicted to it and like most addictions it could well kill us.

Other countries do not grow by adding inhabitants from all over the place; they do it by increasing productivity per worker. Even Australia with all its problems has productivity growth per capita that beats NZ.

Increasing productivity still requires lots of people somewhere to buy what is produced, thus still relying on growth. I don't think people actually get it, to be honest, bottom line for growth is more people, whether it be here or somewhere else. Take Japan, falling population, but what they tapped into with their money was growth in other countries. So still not problem solved.

The Labour policies will kill productivity.
The wharfie strike is just the tip of the iceberg.
The nurses are looking at striking etc.etc.
The unions know that this Govt. Is pathetically weak!
How many strikes did we have under National?
Next to none.

where is the million dollar CEO while they are going through this, oh overseas leaving his minions to sort it out.
i would say the strike is more about overpaid poor management
we have had years of poor managers importing cheap labour and not looking at improving training or systems whilst paying themselves more and more.

Well, I’m sorry Immigration Minister Ian Lees-Galloway – weasel words at best.

Carry on down this road at your peril.

Whats going on with immigration?
Immigration has swamped our infrastructure.
Immigration has created a low wage economy that impoverishes working class NZers
Immigration has overwhelmed our public services like health, education and the police.
Immigration has overwhelmed our housing supply.
Immigration has been a economic disaster that is yet to be paid for.
Immigration has not lifted our exports in proportion to the population growth and now the govt is scrambling to create new taxes to subsidize the immigrants.
Neither major political party can turn the tap off as they know that when they do the reality of the situation will be massive recession as the flow of immigrants foreign capital winds down. As it is most immigrants bring money and buy a car and a house or two.
We are selling our last asset which is our low population demographic
Welcome to the third world working class NZ..

I suspect they are going to taper it over time to reduce the cliff edge economic shock.

Anything is better than the paid stooges in National whose mission is to turn us into New Beijing.

We can but hope.

Nicely put Mr Hippy.

If NZ First dosent follow thru on this they are dead, which means the Govts very thin majority is shot. Most NZ First voters are center right votes.

Perhaps Lab just wants one term...?

NZ First was dead when Winston was too gutless to inform the electorate he had filed papers suing National Party members prior to the ballot.

Surprise, surprise. Labour are fully paid up subscribers to International Socialism, so Immigration is a Good Thing.

Who would have thought? Oh, I know, people over 45, who have seen this Play before. People under 45 tend to actually listen to the words the politicians speak, rather than asking themselves which Play they will act out.

The problem is that both Labour and National think Immigration is a Good Thing, with a slightly different emphasis on exactly why. Both turn a blind eye to any and all possible downsides.

NZs immigration policy has costs that far outweigh the minimal benefits it can claim. Quality of life has drastically reduced over a very short period of time. As said on here and myself is an example, born and raised Aucklanders are leaving and being replaced at an exponential rate by low quality immigrants. It will all end in tears and even the little DGZ bubble is not immune to any of it.