National Leader Christopher Luxon's initial support for new Tauranga MP Sam Uffindell dissolved late Tuesday night after new allegations of bullying and violence emerged from Uffindell's student flatting days.
Luxon had initially supported Uffindell, who he described in mid-afternoon comments as a 'different man' from when he violently assaulted a fellow boarding school student at Kings College in 1999 as a 16 year-old.
But late last night, RNZ's Morning Report producers approached Luxon and Uffindell with allegations from a flatmate in Dunedin in 2003 that Uffindell was a violent, bullying and destructive abuser of drug and alcohol in his university years.
"This evening my office became aware of very concerning accusations made to RNZ about behaviour shown by Mr Uffindell toward a female flatmate in 2003 while at university," Luxon said in a statement issued at 11.21pm.
"Mr Uffindell disputes the allegations and in the interests of natural justice, an independent investigation will now be undertaken to determine the facts. While this process is underway, Mr Uffindell will be stood down from caucus," Luxon said.
“The investigation will be conducted by Maria Dew QC and I expect it to take two weeks. However, as these allegations have only come to me in the last few hours, the finer details of the investigation, including the terms of reference, are yet to be confirmed and will be finalised over the next couple of days.”
Uffindell issued his own statement one minute later.
"When I was a student at Otago I enjoyed a student lifestyle, which included drinking and, at times, smoking marijuana," Uffindell said.
"While in second year a number of flatmates fell out – and two of the flatmates left midway through the year. I reject any accusation that I engaged in behaviour that was intimidatory or bullying. This simply did not happen," he said, adding he would not comment further.
Bullying, violence and hypocrisy claims
The unnamed woman told RNZ Uffindell bullied her during their second year at Otago University and would trash their student flat after alcohol and drug abuse.
"This was intimidation. This was bullying. I didn't feel safe," she said, adding she eventually moved out after having to lock herself in her bedroom to avoid a drunken Uffindell on the rampage one night.
"He was smashing on my door and yelling obscenities and basically telling me to get out - 'hit the road, fatty'," she said.
"I ended up climbing out of my bedroom window and ran to a friend's house to stay the night. I feared for my safety. I was scared."
The woman's father confirmed the details to RNZ, saying: "The flat itself was completely trashed. There wasn't a stick of furniture left. There was no crockery left. There were no handles left on anything. It had all been broken."
The woman said Uffindell had never apologised and his pattern of behaviour revealed his character.
"Listening to his maiden speech in Parliament, he talks about lack of accountability and a sense of impunity - I think that's so hypocritical," she said.
My view
I wrote yesterday there was a chance Luxon would ditch Uffindell before the end of the day. Luxon's initially strong and supportive stance backing Uffindell in comments just before 2pm surprised me, given the risk of more stuff coming out.
Then more stuff came out.
Luxon should have done a John Key and suspended him immediately.
This was Luxon's first error of judgement, although it's clear he should have asked a lot more questions of the selection committee and his board before the candidate's selection. Uffindell may not be the last one to go. Former President Peter Goodfellow's position on the National board for the next year is now even more precarious.
159 Comments
... it is possible to be masculine & kind & courteous & respectful ...
I've encountered a few bullies over the years , at school & after , and I'd rate that Sam Uffindell's behaviour is right up there with the worst of them ... there's some serious flaws in his character ....
Tauranga deserves better !
They put up someone who looks a perfect candidate, clean shaven, handsome, youngish white man and bam this is the result. One imagines they will be extra wary of this sort of thing in future.
Also being held to account can certainly lead to being discredited. It's also too easy these days to discredit your typical right wing, white male, candidate.
You mean someone like Hone Harawera?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/haka-brawl-rivals-unite-to-remember/YOC…
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/14/new-zealand-police-critic…
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/fundamentally-racist-maori-more-likely-to…
I could go on, the same week Delegat was released without conviction, a Maori boy, first-time offender was convicted on a less serious charge. Couldn't afford the barrister.
He would have received a cultural report as part of mitigating circumstances if brown. And then due to the risks of him identifying or joining a gang if incarcerated, he'd be discharged with a warning. True story. But feel free to throw in the race card. ps recall the Mongrel Mob member with 19 convictions for domestic assault. Despite trying to strangle his partner (always a good market for significant violence), the Judge thought rehabilitation would best be served by a community service and attendance at a violence prevention programme.
I would also add GBH, as a society,who should we have higher expectations of - a private schoolboy from a wealthy family or a Maori/PI boy with numerous toxic risk factors in their lives (domestic violence, alcoholic parent, single parent etc)? I have a higher expectation of my children's behaviour than some of my extended whanau. I see what those boys & girls have had to deal with. This to me is the issue, he has few mitigating factors for his behaviour.
Same here Te Kooti. I don’t condone the poor behaviours of my extended whanau. I do understand that they have the odds stacked against them. If I could change one thing for them would be to change their world view more reflective of reality and the opportunities that exist. My koro went from being able to speak Maori only in Nuhaka to gaining a Masters and becoming n Associate Professor at 2 universities. He always said that education was the key for us Maori to advance from our poor state. As true today as it was in the 1940’s.
Good for you Te Kooti. Something I would love to be involved with. Unfortunately due to my health issues I cannot get involved as much as I would like. Also living in Taranaki and having my rohe in the East Coast means that getting involved locally is not so easy as you may or may not understand. Due to local politics and not being mana whenua. A delicate situation. Maybe I should relocate to the East Coast.
The curriculum in schools need to be overhauled to include social skills to avoid bullying, prejudices, biases, etc.
Real life heroes (of all genders) should be asked to speak with these kids at schools and explain about what was possible for them against all odds. Inspiration is totally lacking in many schools and Universities nowadays. Ambition should be nurtured and channelled right from school age.
Maybe, but I would imagine that many schools that are predominantly brown also have situations like this that were 'handled' in school' and I don't mean swept under the table but internal restorative justice was reached between school, perpetrator, and victim/victims family.
Which I think, that if all sides are happy, that is probably the best place for it.
A question that still needs to be answered (maybe it has but I haven't seen it). The victim's family could have taken this to the police. Why didn't they?
Were they happy enough with the decision, but only on the basis that Udinfell kept his head down for the best of his life, or that he was never in a position where he might have 'power' over others and by default them again? Which I could sympathize with.
That search for power over others is what makes people like Uffindell so malignant.
Once they have power, they can start to abuse. He had power over that 13 year old, and over his female flatmate who was sheltering in her bedroom.
Imagine what he would do with parliamentary power.
Aye he was a true blue National typecast for sure. Blue suit brigade to the tee. And that really is the rub of the National Party isn’t it. Put it in a barrel and nail the lid shut. If this nasty deed at Kings and the resultant expulsion had been vented publicly and explained prior to the by election, then much of the current flak would have been if not completely avoided, at least more controllable.
The hands of Peter Goodfellow are all over National candidate selection & where the buck stops with many years of multiple bad choices. Yet he continues even now to manipulate the party…which says a lot about Nationals ongoing inability to resolve its own housekeeping issues before they will be trusted to run the country again
I'm a reformed character now. People seem to be not understanding what I am trying to get across here. So called right leaning parties have a difficult time with candidates because they are so easy to knock off their pedestals. Poke around in their past and you will find something juicy. It's just the way it is which is why I support putting forward someone like Ardern if you want electoral success.
I'm really just being pragmatic. The gist of what i am saying is that this situation is a gift for the enemies of National. If they could have engineered it it would have been brilliant but they didn't need to, National did it to themselves and likely it was inevitable.
Many avoid this sort of knock off their pedestal by not beating kids with bedposts in the first place. Or not releasing nudes of their ex girlfriend for revenge, etc.
Metiria Turei was also knocked off her pedestal, in fairness. Manufactured to discredit her demographic, you think?
I just think that people from privileged backgrounds who hold conservative beliefs have had their day in politics. Engineering their downfall is not even necessary. I never said they were victims, rather that they need to find softer more feminine candidates that are unlikely to have skeletons in their closets.
Mostly because they have little to offer in 2022 Zach. None of us are going to stop the diversity/inclusion movement (I see it very similar to climate change). So if you are pakeha and want to hold high office, whether public or private, you better be onside with Te Reo/Pacifica/LGBT and have a track record of supporting these causes, or you are toast. I give you Adrian Orr.....
In the case of Adrian Orr, he is onside with PRETENDING to support Te Reo and equality.
We'd be hard pressed to think of another civil servant in the last 100+ years who has shafted Maori interests as badly as Orr has done. Just look at Maori home ownership rates.
It's all about the talky talky, not so much the walky walky.
I've been very critical of him and his Te Ao symbolism as just that, without substance. Yes, monetary policy has been quite punitive for Maori (in general), including this tightening cycle. Orr supported mainstream banks but Maori are largely locked out of these. If he wanted to help, he needed to support the institutions they are forced to use to bring their cost of funds down as well.
Just going with the vibe of the thread after all white is the new black. And no I didn't say unfairly, but the general thread was his 'privilege' of being born white and male has lead him to a private school and then onto this end result of being publicly shamed.
Poor boy never had a chance being born that way.
But maybe there is a mitigating factor if we knew the colour of the skin of the person he was given the beating to. After all if it was another person with privilege....?
Sometimes when you repeat people's silly verbal thoughts back to them, they can hear how silly they are. The Irony is they still don't recognize as it as their words.
They've had all sorts of unfit characters to be fair. Even Todd Muller couldn't remember which party he had joined.
The National Party leader gave a speech in his Bay of Plenty hometown of Te Puna.
An upside-down Tino Rangatiratanga flag hung behind Muller as he spoke - and during his speech he had to correct himself after saying he'd joined the Labour Party.
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/audi…
Zachary,
"Poke around in their past and you will find something juicy". You sound sillier with every post, just stop digging the hole.
I don't care which party someone represents, if they have 'something juicy' in their past, surely the electorate deserves to know and then make a judgement. If our representatives can't be competent, they could at least not be thugs and bullies.
I am amused to hear so many say that of course he deserves a second chance and that's right, just as long as the same forgiveness is extended to those from a much poorer background and who may not be white and handsome-your word. I would like to think that he is a good husband and father, but whatever else, he is a rank hypocrite.
How difficult is it to vet a candidate and find out the skeletons, before putting them up to the electorate ? This school thingy should have been very easy to unearth. More troublesome is keeping it away from the Leader of the Party. Almost like setting the Leader up for a public ridicule. Becasue they must have known that oppo research by all, especially the Media would bring such things to light. The Media also must have waited for the election to be over, before releasing the news ? All a big conspiracy, in my view. Poor Luxon, he has no chance, in such toxic atmosphere.
Zachary,
"It's almost like these things are manufactured to discredit this demographic". Interesting viewpoint. Which demographic are you referring to being discredited? What is being manufactured?
Knowing from previous posts what an ardent supporter you are of the British Empire and what it gave the world, I suspect you would include the English public school system in that demographic.-you know, cold showers, regular beatings and crap food, all designed to breed the future rulers. I went to one of these(expensive) schools in the Scottish Highlands, so I know of what I speak. The system produced more than its fair share of Uffindells. Has this leopard really changed its spots?
appologies to the headmaster, it was the chaplain
Reverend Warner Wilder was chaplain at Kings between 1989 and 2016
“The bottom line is when you’ve got hundreds of boys living together, things will happen.
“Boys will be boys,” he said.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300657505/principal-who-asked…
People here are saying the behaviour being described is "ordinary" for boarding schools. Tar the whole system with the same brush.
I don't follow that discredits an entire demographic: the bullied always outnumber the bullies.
I went to school with one (white, male, now 40s) National candidate who was definitely on the receiving end of it.
Doesn't sound like the sort of person that any party would be comfortable having in their Caucus; you just never know what is going to come out of the woodwork next and once profiled in a certain way by the 'dog with a bone' media it really never goes away in politics. Luxon is caught in a tricky position here. To do nothing is playing into accusations of weak leadership but to stand by in support of natural justice (the guy hasn't actually been convicted of any criminal behavior although I sometimes think that some Otago student flat life seems to verge on it) will definitely weaken his leadership and reinforce some unfair stereotyping of the National Party.
Maybe the smart thing now would be for Uffendin to resign, Tauranga would then have another by-election (at great cost to the tax payers but then that is what the media seem to want to have here), Uffendin would face the Tauranga voters once again but this time with their full knowledge of his character and then, I suspect, he would be returned to Parliament after all that expensive exercise caused by media driven indignation. But would National re-select him as a candidate? I wouldn't!
It is my experience that people do not really change unless something very traumatic has occurred to them. Many will learn to change their behaviour for most circumstances, but under pressure and not getting their way and their true nature comes back to the surface. You never really get to see a person's true nature until you tell them "No" for something they really want.
With the scrutiny that parliament has come under recently for just this type of behaviour, the question must be asked if Mr Uffindell is a appropriate person for the role. It would be interesting to learn what his employees/subordinates have to say about him from his business life?
My journey from volatile young person to someone who can shrug their shoulders at 90% of things has been a long one. I think we have to give young men who have experienced a less than linear development curve a chance to contribute in higher office, otherwise you are effectively telling some people their lives are basically over in some ways before it has even begun.
But if there's evidence he's mislead people or misrepresented events then that is of concern and speaks to his character now.
A good challenge for aspiring MPs: Ask yourself how would a vulnerable citizen feel about approaching you for assistance with a personal matter. Until you get to the point where that's "Without hesitation" then there's probably still a bit of work to be done.
'Volatile' covers a lot. No doubt there are a decent number of young men with some kind of temper, and many grow out of it or learn to manage it. Not many (I think/hope) that use wooden planks to beat up on younger boys, or terrorize their female flat-mates.
Plenty of evidence already to suggest this guy is a bully and a thug, not at all the sort of person any party should want representing them. I say good riddance to him. Being white and male (addressing commentator above) has nothing to do with it.
Not many (I think/hope) that use wooden planks to beat up on younger boys, or terrorize their female flat-mates.
I would hope so too, but you can still do plenty of damage without ever raising a hand or your voice at anyone. There's an old proverb about the deepest wounds never leaving a mark, and I'm loathe to give everyone a free pass that doesn't commit outright assault or similar criminal act.
Totally agree. As an example; Watching the behaviour of the kids growing up alongside my son, the worst of them are the ones who can undermine someone under their breath. Parents never hear a thing. The kids abused get no support because noone else hears it so noone else knows why they are so angry. Very clever gaslighting technique
One 'direct' type of kid retailiated to such a comment using a cricket bat he just happened to be holding, which at the time shocked me. However I now have come to understand how he was provoked.
I agree, as one of the victim's noted, his maiden speech was very hypocritical given his past wrongdoing. Remember this is a party that is ostensibly "tough on crime" - which means that they think these kind of incidents should have long lasting consequences, but then go and ignore them for one of their own.
He's clearly got to go, if only for reasons of political/public perception.
But surely this new accusation has to be the easiest thing ever for some journalist to corroborate - find out who the other flatmates at the time were, call them up, and confirm whether they recall him acting this way.
I can't remember every minute detail of everything my various flatmates of days bygone have done, but I'd sure as hell remember coming home to every piece of furniture shredded and in the main I could recall the typical behaviour of each and everyone one of them (especially the one who managed to drunkenly break the toilet bowl in half one night - resulting in a whole week of having to use the public toilets down the road until we could get a replacement installed).
Based on his admission that he bullied other people, it seems likely this new accusation is accurate (I'm guessing he knew this was coming?) but at the very least attempts should be made to try and confirm what actually happened.
Luxon is standing there with egg all over his face. He should have cut him yesterday after grilling the guy. It was obvious he was avoiding the whole truth.
Compare that to when Nicola Willis was interviewed yesterday morning. She chose her words carefully, clearly anticipating more revelations to come.
Calm down.... you're condoning persecuting people for something they did >20 years ago? Really?
Everybody has done something stupid in their past, having it thrown back in your face 20 years later is just spiteful
Unfortunately he is in politics where people have nothing better to do than waste tax payer money and peoples eyeball time on airing peoples dirty laundry in front of everybody in a bid to keep power
It's not what he did as a 16 year old that sunk him, it's not telling the whole truth now that is the issue.
Yesterday he said he sincerely apologized to his victim after 20 years of remorse, not because he was cleaning house as he prepped himself for politics. I have a bridge to sell anyone that believes that. He also said early yesterday that he had taken full responsibility and there was nothing else significant to come out...
Agreed - what he did was bad, but the hypocrisy of his 'tough on young offenders' position and the lying while running for public office - 'worst thing I have ever done was not come back to New Zealand sooner' is the serious issue.
Shows he is either completely lacking in judgement, or deep down inside does not really accept that he has done anything wrong.
Do you believe in second chances for everyone? Or just for privileged white males?
That's the problem with National, as I see it. They are all about giving second chances to the privileged... but if the underprivileged make a mistake then it is all about kicking them when they are down.
National are all about being "tough on crime" and cracking down on the behavior of kids who come from awful, underprivileged backgrounds. But they are very keen to give second chances to a rich kid from Kings College.
I think many of us are happy to give a bloke multiple chances.
Some more so when they have come from the dark side but want to change - such as ex gang members or kids who were given no chance. Others more so when the person is from the good clean privileged class who they relate to.
Both 'teams' play this card.
For repeat offender adults and gang members yes totally seize their assets and lock them up - for youth it means giving them an opportunity to turn it around, rehab programs and family advice so kids have a chance. its not rocket science people acting like tough on crime = youth offenders must be destroyed are putting across their personal bias instead of the truth.
and all of these things have occurred in the open, so people know about them. Trevor isn't hiding from them. He got over his skis and made an allegation against a sexual predator... who chose to sue for defamation because while they did sexually assault more than one person, he didn't "rape" them.
Mr Uffindall sounds like he hasn't spent any time reflecting on the behaviour of his youth or given any evidence that he has done any work to improve himself. Looking at his CV he seems to have hopped around a bit.. I get the feeling there will be more stories from across the Tasman in the coming days..
This is how pathetic people have become. I dont condone violence or harm but this was decades ago when we were all young and dumb and I bet no one can say they were a saint and dont regret anything in their past if you can even remember it.
These people remain anmomous while tearing apart someones new career. They should come forward out in the open. Im sure they have also done or said things in the past that dont mean anything to them, but will to others.
While I understand hes now a public figure but if every person thats a CEO, leader of a team or a public figure including media etc and had their life put under the microscope there would be no one left.
I would argue that being an MP is a position where character is a critically important trait.
What started as a youthful indiscretion is now being shown to have carried into adulthood.
Tthe faux accountability on display, and clear indication that there is more should anyone go looking, shows that his character is still lacking.
As with Santamaria, will we find that the return to NZ itself was prompted by issues overseas?
Yes I can agree that being an MP is a bit different and character is important. Maybe there is more to come who knows. But if we are saying after a drunken rage or possibly just a flatmate argument that started from who left the dishes in the sink and got heated, then we are basically saying that your life is stuffed, don't bother about trying to push yourself or your career because of something thats happened in the past. The police were not involved in any of the two situations and nothing on his record.
I think would be good that if someone who I wouldnt consider anger/alcohol/drug issues as having a dark past, but was able to turn his life around and be a role model for other people who were or are in the same boat as him 20 years ago shows that you can still make something of yourself even if you have stuffed up.
"but was able to turn his life around and be a role model for other people who were or are in the same boat as him 20 years ago shows that you can still make something of yourself even if you have stuffed up."
You are right with this, and it should be something people strive to. But for this individual, my question is what has he done that actually shows he turned his life around?
Becoming an MP? he didn't need to show any passion, determination, or overcome any hurdles to get this position. He was selected by the party and dropped into one of their safest seats.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLq3_3_KrRU
This video is the best short documentary on the state of old Dunedin flats
I don’t believe he was ever truly held to account for the cowardly act he committed when at King’s College. To me that was a criminal act and was disgusting. Acquaintances from my youth ended up in Borstal for acts such as this. Rightly so. Through the courts and a criminal record. Why were these 4 treated any differently? Smacks of elitism. The bane of any society trying to call itself fair and equal.
Agree.
The lifetime consequences of bullying can be catastrophic for the victim, society and economy. Schools devote a lot of time and money to trying to stamp it out.
It unacceptable for a major party to have selected a bully as an MP and not to have mentioned it prior to his being elected. What message does this send to the kids currently being bullied daily at school. We need to send them a message that bullying by anyone is unacceptable to society and that their bullies will pay a price for their acts that is proportional to the lifetime damage to the self esteem of their victim.
Perhaps Sam needs to stand down and spend a few years visiting and talking at schools - self funded - as part of the anti bullying campaigns to show he really understands what he did and is willing to pay a price and help right the wrong. And visit in person the people he messed up and explain who he was and offer to pay for some counselling for them. And then he can resubmit himself for election having proven his worth and that he has truly changed.
Right now it feels very wrong.
Agreed. Well said. True redemption comes from active participation in the healing process for your victims. Also passing the message on to others. There are many examples on our TV screens of people (mainly men) turning their lives around and actively participating in making apologies to their victims and publically owning their previous misdemeanours. I have the upmost respect for these people. Sam could take a leaf out of their books then re-apply for an MP role. Would be a great example to the community at large. Then put forth his law and order stance. With a combination of appropriate punishment and a path to redemption for the perpetrators. He would win a lot of support from the electorate.
It is the cloth from which National is cut.
John Key continued to harass a cafe worker after he was repeatedly asked to stop. Then there's Judith Collins "I prefer to stab people in the front" and her attack dog Cameron Slater. Now there's some bullying and intimidation tactics... just to scratch the surface.
A political party where Sam could really start to feel at home.
If they can't stand the heat then they shouldn't have thrown their hat in the ring. Having said that, if National handle this well, even if marginally so, I think they may still waltz in this election as my old standard on political parties proves true - after two terms they are pretty much past their use - by date due to embedded arrogance and institutional deafness. If they squeak in for a third term, we and they are screwed.
Remind me, who was the minister stood down after accusations they assaulted a staff member? Or the MP who fought another in the corridors outside the chamber? People are quite happy to make these kind of sneering partisan remarks but stick their fingers in their ears when it comes to the reality that there will be multiple MPs with shady backstories from across the house. And it won't always be from the party you don't like either.
He was an easy target for other parties who crucified him for something stupid he did as a teenager 23 years ago.... Still doesn't excuse his behaviour then, but then again criminals who have done far worse get a clean slate after 7 years....
Unfortunately, in politics, politicians have nothing better to do than smear other parties by wasting tax payer money digging into everybodies closet and then using the media to throw it back in their faces
It's unfortunate for him, as it's unlikely he will stay in politics now that he has been a victim of a smear campaign, likely from labour or the greens who are slowly but surely losing political support
Better tactic would be to bench him and win the election then decide from there.....
Really? any capable political enemy would have done it mid campaign so that the ensuing trainwreck derailed the vote itself and would likely have led their candidate to victory.
This one sounds like a bonafide screwup, rather than a setup. I mean look at the timeframes.
- Apply/shoulder tapped for National Party
- Uncover skeletons during vetting.
- Out of the blue apology far enough in advance that you hope things aren't linked.
- Election result is all over the media and Victim being apologised too realises it was clearly a sham and raises it.
- Media take a month to verify and start digging up additional leads for story.
Get serious mate the skeletons stay in the closet unless you have a criminal conviction. I bet nobody is perfect, even I have done things I'm not proud of during the school years. I was bullied at school but later was accused of being a bully but not that I remember doing anything. Some memories that people have get very fuzzy, especially if drugs were involved. The problem is that once revealed by one person it often leads to a tidal wave of others finally coming forward. Wouldn't surprise me if even more allegations surface now.
It does raise the observation, that if he had never become a politician, this same past would have still existed and been unknown to most of all that have done business and friendship with him in the past, and then on into the future.
So look around you, to all those that you do business with, and many of your friends, and wonder, hmmm?
M L Mencken's quote comes to mind, paraphrased somewhat:
“As democracy is perfected, the members of Parliament will represent, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. So, on some great and glorious day the voters of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the Beehive will be adorned by a downright moron.”
“The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
― George Orwell, Animal Farm
Updated:
"The voters outside looked from left to right, and from right to left, and from left to right again: but already it was impossible to say which was which.'“
The voters outside looked from Labour to National, and from National to Labour, and from Labour to National again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
You are right. Quite ridiculous. Such a disconnect between the standards we in the public aspire to and attempt to practise and the behaviour of many of our politicians. Something is wrong with our system when many good people with sensible and well thought out ideas never put themselves forward for political office. Some decent people make it through. Unfortunately then they are measured by their ”sensible well thought out” ideas. Most come up short sadly based on the many times reasoned feedback from the public. I have a lot of faith in the “wisdom of the crowd” to steal a phrase from someone smarter that me. I am regularly encouraged by the indefinable “common sense” shown by average New Zealanders. Gives me faith in the future. If we could just transfer that to Parliament in sufficient numbers!
Of course, it is contemptuous, But in light of any better explanation, it is perfect to describe how we as a country, are falling to the levels we are.
Contempt means not worthy of further consideration. And this whole debate about Uffindell is saying that because of his past actions, irrespective of whether he is genuinely remorseful and has changed his behaviour, he is now not worthy of consideration as a Politician, ie we have contempt for him.
Mencken's point when he wrote that quote in 1924, was that democracy is a work in progress, and its evolution will lead, not to the average citizen being pulled up to be more representative of the leader, but the leader being pulled down to be more representative of the average citizen.
And considering almost any measure you want to take regarding attendance in schools, abuse of teachers by students quality of education, health, and even the amount of respect re law and order, it would seem fitting to conclude you get what you vote for.
It's on us, not them. So are things getting better or worse?
he is now not worthy of consideration as a Politician, ie we have contempt for him.
I would instead say, there are likely 999 better candidates that should be ahead him. The idea that the average citizen grew up being expelled for dishing out group beatings to kids several years younger is ridiculous, sorry.
'I would instead say, there are likely 999 better candidates that should be ahead him.' Yes there are many more better people, but that is different from being or wanting to be a candidate, let alone the chosen one.
The question is 'why do 'we' keep voting these types of people in?' And I'm not just meaning the 'bulling.' Almost every metric would want to take of success, we are continuing to fall down the ranks in, housing, health care, education, law and order etc. In a democracy, whose fault is that?
And I never implied your last sentence.
So, under that scenario the criminals go unpunished. Because the police, judiciary and indeed the public at large have no right to judge anothers behaviour based on their own sinning. I thought that is why we have laws and enforce them. This is a fine goal which would work if everyone played the game by the rules.
It was always going to come out.
I am not one for kicking someone when they are down, but he needs to be removed - firstly for not sharing this important side of himself with his voters prior to being elected so voters could decide, and secondly as a message to the next generation of school/university bullies that there is a lifetime consequence for their actions (in the same way there is a lifetime consequence for their victims).
Schools have anti bullying days and messages all the time now, to try to stop this. Electing an ex School bully as an MP sends the wrong message to kids
If he and National Party thought it was defensible then he should have proactively come out with every detail during his election campaign - but he knew he wouldnt be elected if he did that.
I am happy for him and National to present the details of Sam to the electorate and then fund a local vote in Tauranga to determine if the electorate still want Sam as their MP.
Personally i think he will never shake this now as every time someone accuses him of something he will be guilty to proven other wise.
Too late... "you can sleep on it"
Luxon is fluffing it. apparently , what his selection panel and staff did wrong was not inform him they were selecting someone with a bullying past . He hasn't said Sam shouldn't have been selected , he has kinda said the public should have been informed.
But he needs to say wether he thinks selecting Sam was a mistake, or he backs him regardless .
It kinda feels like he is waiting to see how many more skeletons come out of the closet , and how the public / media are reacting to what has come out .
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