There was a sharp drop in the number of people arriving in this country on work visas in December, according to the latest figures from the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment.
These show there were 12,225 work visa arrivals in December last year, down from 17,079 in November.
December was the third consecutive month that the number of people arriving in the country on work visas declined, although there is usually a significant dip in work visa arrivals in December, with numbers then usually picking up strongly again in the first quarter of the year.
The busiest month last year for overseas worker arrivals was March when 20,445 arrived in the country.
According to MBIE there were 176,619 people in this country on work visas at the end of last year, up from 115,407 at the end of December 2022, an increase of 62,212 (+54%) for the year.
Additionally, 4110 overseas students arrived in this country in December, taking the total number of overseas students in the country at the end of last year to 45,165.
As with overseas workers, the first quarter of each year is usually the busiest for overseas student arrivals, with another jump in numbers at mid-year.
In the whole of last year 204,327 people arrived in this country on work visas and another 73,659 arrived on student visas.
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91 Comments
I expect there will be a rush back out again. Importing cheap building labour has gone pair shaped and many of the new migrants I speak to are disillusioned. I guess a lot depends on the country of origin.
It's probably gone more pear shaped then pair shaped ;-)
One would assume you are a perfectionist.. pity it's not the case
Yvil appears to have a spelling error in his comment too...
However, people should be pleased to be corrected as it improves their English.
Absolutely agree.. but 'slip of the tongue/finger is no fault of the mind ' ;)
Pear-shaped ;-)
Killjoy
Pare a pair of pears.
Whilst peering at the pier
The 'leaders' believe we need more people for economises of scale and lowering of costs.
That overlook that a higher cost of living can be tolerated if the lifestyle is exceptional.
And it was. Now it is not.
The trade off has been awful.
For many of the low-rent and mid-tier migrants, I'd imagine the experience is hellish. For the Peter Thiels and the money launderers, its bearable as long as they're not bothered too much by the existing locals and the authorities poking their noses into their affairs.
Remember, the ruling elite sees these people as economic widgets. If they can boost the consumption components of the GDP, it makes the govt report card look better and they can crow about their superior economic management.
GDP is production, not consumption. Increasing consumption without increasing production will only worsen the trade balance, not improve GDP. Hopes that consumption will indirectly stimulate production via demand rely on spare capacity in the production system, for which there is little evidence at present.
Up up up goes the rent, commute times, hospital wait times...
and house values...
Why's that a good thing Harvey? Are you over leveraged?
He didn't say it was a good thing !
Yvil= nerd from school that calls out spelling mistakes and brown noses.
Harvey is a house price cheer leader. I'm curious to get his opinion on why he thinks it's a good thing. I'm genuinely interested.
So for once in your life Yvil... butt out.
He is too thick skinned to butt out.. he would have been one of those annoying kids even when rejected from a group, would still tag along
Are house prices rises a good thing? I'm not too sure TBH, but it is happening regardless, and barring an economic meltdown they will rise this year, probably 10%.
Thanks Harvey. That answered my question. I think 10% will be a stretch. Massive affordability issues and the need for a greater fool.... but I guess we'll see.
Agree
perhaps 5%
So Tom, now you admit Harvey is not a, quoting you; "Harvey is a house price cheer leader" ?
That seems surprisingly similar to my comment "He didn't say it (house prices rising) was a good thing ! " over which you got quite upset about !
Fund manager and promoter, Doug Somers-edgar used to like using that phrase "greater fool". I think that's what he became in the 2008 GFC. Long before that in the 90s he said how he had sold his rentals
Is this the guy who was part of Money Managers? Wasn't there collapse of the business and accusations of fraud/malfeasance?
Harvey you starting to sound like HB use to in regards to 10% just missing the guarantee
Lol at a nerd insult on the internet. What are you typing with? A football?
😂
All the better to get or stay fit and healthy, try cycling if it is within a reasonable range to work, and lower the chances of needing the medical system where possible.
Unfortunately being a cyclist in Auckland is a sure fire way to experience our Accident and Emergency system first hand
Was thinking the same in Tauranga, but then the ambulance would never make it to the hospital due to the traffic.
Bicycles are children's toys. I always want to run up to grown men on bicycles and ask them, "Why are you playing on the street with a child's toy?"
Also, distance runners, what are they running away from?
All you require for fitness is some body weight exercises, mild weight lifting, sprints and walking. Oh, and a meat based diet.
It's a free country, so run up to them and ask them. Every time you see one, do it. All of them, in an indiscriminate manner.
Disclaimer: I am not a cyclist.
It's not a free to do or say whatever you like without consequences country.
Perhaps I should have written, "I wish I could" or, "I always think". I have said it to friends and colleagues.
The risk of injury with cycling is too great. It can cause testicular and prostate issues. It exercises muscles that are not all that useful when required in an emergency. It doesn't strengthen the core and many cyclists have little pot bellies and spindly arms. Why, oh why?
Oops, we've gone badly off topic...
It can cause testicular and prostate issues. It exercises muscles that are not all that useful when required in an emergency. It doesn't strengthen the core and many cyclists have little pot bellies and spindly arms.
I'm awaiting the plethora of evidence you have for this other than anecdotal drivel.
There is a plethora of evidence, you just need to google it.
If you are going to assert something, then the burden of proof is on you alone.
I imagine the average cyclist wants to cycle up to grown men in cars and ask them, "Why you so fat?"
Ah thank you this gave me a proper hearty lol
LOL - and we all know what those men in cars will say. Something along the lines of genetics, low metabolism, glandular issues, etc...
In Christchurch, where most people live within a few flat km of the city centre and there are many bike paths, bikes are the obvious transport option. Commuting by car would take twice as long for me as well as costing more, walking would take about 3 times as long and provide less exercise (I don't get my heart rate up walking a few km on the flat).
If the walking is reasonably taxing (pace/elevation) and you do enough of each, sure your regime works just fine. But why not combine some of it with your commute? Save time, money, carbon, parking hassle...
If you can include cycling in your commute, you will be a lot healthier and slimmer. Not everyone can do it, but that doesn't mean no one should do it.
Yes, that sounds reasonable.
You probably don't have enough cardio there Zach and you pretty much need to distance run or cycle to get that and your diet is shit but pretty common among New Zealanders, those that cannot eat even lettuce or a tomato and have to pull it out of their burger always shocks me.
That's funny, I see people doing Sprints and think, 'What are you running away from'?
It’s anaerobic training to improve VO2max.
https://simplifaster.com/articles/how-trainable-is-vo2-max/
Prior to working with me, the athlete did very little work below 80% max heart rate. Most of the work he did in this range was restricted to just warming up for the “main event.” We made a large shift in this training emphasis by adding a lot more easy aerobic work (~65-80% max heart rate) and a lot less high-intensity work (~85-100% max heart rate). Paradoxically, less “VO2 work” resulted in a significant boost to the athlete’s VO2 max!
...
This is not to say that traditional VO2 max intervals (3-5 mins @ 95-100% max heart rate ~1:1 recovery) are useless; merely that they are the proverbial icing on the top rather than the cake itself. Athletes can certainly reach a point with pure aerobic training where they are so efficient that they are no longer able to max out their aerobic power. This is indicated by an inability to reach a VO2 “plateau” during a test where, despite increased work, VO2 stabilizes. When an athlete fails to get to this plateau, a small dose of VO2 max intervals can be very effective in eking out those last few ml/kg/min. However, in this case, this form of training represents the move from 70 to 74 ml/kg/min, *not* the move from 53 to 70. That shift was made with “bread and butter” aerobic work!
As a lifelong runner and cyclist (periodically) who was competitive at the regional but not national level I'd like to offer some feedback.
Long term endurance training has benefits that can't be reproduced by any other form of exercise. I could talk about reductions in brachial artery stiffness, ventricular dilatation, improvements in stroke volume and reduction in heart rate. We could talk about endurance athletes having ventricular wall stiffness in their 60's which is similar to a control group in their 40's who are non-exercisers. We can talk about slowing the reduction in VO2max which is clearly related to a reduction in quality of life as we age. We could talk about Swedish longitudinal data from army recruits that show longevity is associated with base line fitness as a young adult? Bone density improvements with running (but not cycling).
I could talk at length and do so frequently but your commentary suggests ignorance and bias.
Disclaimer-I prefer to remain anonymous but work in the cardio-metabolic area, having tertiary quals in med science and to date have attended in excess of 20 local/International congresses which are either cardiology focused or have a sig focus on this discipline.
Pfftt.. what do you know?
All you require for fitness is some body weight exercises, mild weight lifting, sprints and walking. Oh, and a meat based diet.
You see a lot of rubbish in interest.co.nz comments, but even amongst it all, the steam and smell coming off this freshly laid comment still cuts through.
Scott Jurek is a renowned ultramarathoner, who also eats an entirely plant-based diet. In fact, I'd be surprised if you could find a single person that even finished an ultramarathon with your fitness regime, let alone was competitive. Survey the athletes in any endurance sport, and you'll not find anyone winning with this approach.
There was a sharp drop in the number of people arriving in this country on work visas in December….. although there is usually a significant dip in work visa arrivals in December
It would therefore be nice to have a comparison between December 2023 and December 2022
where on earth do all these people live?
4 to a bedroom in their employer owned accommodation, which incidentally is outside the RTA regulations. The employer pays them minimum wage, but is then paid back most of it in rent and payment for their visa sponsorship.
That would explain the lack of correlation between new Tenancy Bond lodgments and working age adult population growth. Is it illegal to rent a dwelling without a tenancy agreement?
Probably in the high density slums sprouting up in all our lovely suburban areas, this insanity needs to stop. The NZ I know is already long gone - such a pity. I have no doubt that the 45,000 odd student visa holders have no intention of ever leaving either.
It was already happening, just more hidden back in the days when it was just spare converted garages/containers/out-houses crammed into people's back yards. We looked at some shockers back in the mid 2000's that I thought, what awful conditions people have no choice but to live in. At least with high density apartments and townhouses, all these incoming people might be able to live in dignity and within reach of amenties and public transport
There are 25,000 more people on benefits than this time last year.
Guess the great rotation from expensive Kiwi labour to cheap immigrant labour is really working out. Thanks Labour!
Increasing % of population over 65 and up retired collecting pensions?
No, superannuitants are not included in the MSD welfare stats. This is just unemployment, disability, sole parent, and supported living benefits. 12k increase in Jobseeker Work Ready, and 9k increase JobSeeker Disability.
I'd be willing to wager there will be more on the sickness benefit for mental health reasons also. 2020 onwards has been a stark wake up call for everyone to make sure they check-in on their friends and family to see if they're really ok. Male suicide is a real issue in NZ, and most of the time nobody sees it coming.
The sickness benefit is a complete rort, its too easy to just say you are suffering from stress, anxiety or depression, or things like chronic fatigue or the current fad, "long covid". Nobody can prove that you aren't. It pays more than the normal Jobseeker so people are incentivised to lie. The astronomical growth in people on sickness benefits over the last 6 years has correlated with Labour's lack of interest in checking entitlements, and dropping of sanctions, not in some major outbreak of disability or mental illness.
If that is the route you wish to crack down on then I would be recommending they look towards General Practitioners. Although they are a vital part of the health system and essentially the key to accessing further assessment, imaging, tests, referrals to specialists etc, they alone make the call whether to write someone an MSD medical certificate with the diagnosis for this benefit. I'm not bagging on GP's but it can be appreciated that they need to prioritise their relationship with their patients for the sake of the patients health and future health needs, and will always advocate for their patients because they care. It is far easier to write the cert and let the system look into anything dodgy than jeopardise the doctor-patient relationship by standing firm. In reality these people would get some other form of benefit regardless, however they may not need to provide medical certs for it.
As a provider of rental accommodation in a provincial city a high percentage of my tenants are immigrants. Sure the rent costs might be higher than they would like but I am yet to hear any of them say they would have been better to stay home. Most enjoy chatting and not one has ever said they feel exploited. New Zealand is lucky and blessed to have them. My tenants work in forestry, nursing, processing, study, accounting, cabinet making, telecoms, and retail.
I am yet to hear any of them say they would have been better to stay home
Whom may I ask has said that they think they would be better to stay home? I've advocated for low immigration here in the past (still do) but have never said that.
What I have said is that NZ is worse off overall on a per capita basis and pointed out the massive benefit of obtaining residence is never taken into account by those complaining about lazy NZ workers.
You are forgetting that the world is just high school on a bigger scale. Countries are all trying to be popular, attract talent and have investors buy into their currencies, get the best trade deals, look good in front of their peers on the world stage. One of the key stats used for this ubiquitously is GDP (naturally GDP per capita is intentionally subdued unless it is on the up and up) hence the global obsession with having better GDP stats year on year.
That may well be, but I don't think it's relevant to the point I'm trying to make.
My point is that while I (and research) agree with PL's comment about immigrants being better off for coming here, PL is asking the wrong people. PL should in my view be asking existing NZ citizens if they are happy owning a smaller piece of NZ Inc. each as the population rises along with the increased competition for existing houses and jobs.
should in my view be asking existing NZ citizens if they are happy owning a smaller piece of NZ Inc.
I agree with you on that. The system is built upon the assumption that the next generation will always be bigger than the last and will be able to fund their elders int the later years, and to continue the limitless growth narrative, meaning humans will procreate exponential rate which naturally is not sustainable. Hence why I see Winston Peters talked big talk on immigration restriction but he would never act on this as he knows we need more people paying tax in order to prop up NZ super for his biggest voter base. If we are to be more sensible with immigration, which is sorely needed, then we need a big shift in the way we operate and the fundamental ways we measure success and progress, which is what links back to my previous comment, as if other major worldwide players are using the status quo of GDP etc to measure success, we will be doomed to repeat the same mistakes and the immigration will keep pumping.
Agree. I suspect we'd both like NZ to live within its means. Immigration as a short plug for skill shortages I understand. But we've been at it for close to 30 years and haven't solved anything. As you say, we'd need to change the way we operate (super/training locals/home ownership) and I'm for doing that instead of continuing immigration.
204,327 too many. Build the houses first...
Some will have been here for years! E.g. How long has the CRL been building for?
I was working in the U.K. for 7 years before UK immigration suggested enough was enough and I should get residency. (Funny tho - was in and out of the UK often on business, often for months!, using a NZ passport and no other countries asked about my work visa status. I had the right complexion for such leniency. Were it different, I suspect it'd have been a completely different story.)
Great to see that New Zealand is embracing the AI revolution. Don't invest in capital equipment to make your business more efficient. Get AI to do the job. (A)nother (I)mmigrant
Luckily we have plenty of 3 bed "Data Centres" to store 30 new AI's each in. High tech bro.
As long as the more rent trickles up why not go for 40?
This is a joke.
Not one part of this fixes any of NZ structural issues, and will make many worse 🤦♂️
They're here on work visas. They'll be paying tax in one way or another.
Sure, but do they qualify for residence for them and their family after a few years on the job? That's worth a lot more than a few years PAYE.
This has become a sad cycle, where NZers leave after being pushed out by cheap labour, so the country imports more cheap labour, so more NZers leave, etc etc.
It hasn't taken very long replace a significant proportion of the population. So the question becomes: what is a country? Is it the people, or just a sad little book of laws governing the land? If it's the people, then we don't very much about this country.
Are there countries that don't use cheap labour?
I'd say we are a great book of laws governing the land.
New Zealanders are choosing to leave New Zealand - I see no evidence of them being pushed out. New Zealand then becomes desperate for workers (nurses, doctors, engineers, construction workers ), hence the work visas for immigrants, and 200,000 people arriving in New Zealand.
I see no evidence of them being pushed out
Did you look for any?
Have you asked anyone who left why they 'chose' to leave?
High cost of housing and low wages (immigration plays a part in both) would be common reasons NZ citizens choose to leave.
New Zealand then becomes desperate for workers
More like NZ businesses become desperate to not pay higher wages or just plain want to sell residence to foreigners regardless of if they have work for them ('We have zero money:' Migrants who paid for fake jobs being kicked out of emergency housing (msn.com)).
They choose because they get more options abroad to build a life. Greater opportunity for career development by means of greater populations in larger cities and more jobs. Lifestyle options such as more frequent and better concerts and festivals, closer to other countries and cheaper to travel or cheaper relevant to income earned, new experiences, more suitable climate to their preference, more diverse populations etc. I'm not saying that NZ doesn't have these opportunities, but yo have to view it on a relative scale. E.g opportunities in Auckland, a city of 1.1Mil vs opportunities in Melbourne or London, populations of 5 and 8Mil. Realistically if one was to look at key stages in life such as study or early work experience, purchasing a house, having children (decreasing but still highly relevant), career development into higher income, it would make total sense to work your 20's in Australia or the UK where you are highly likely to earn more than staying in NZ. Should you then with to come back to NZ you'd have ample funds banked to press on, or you could relocate again. Those who are more mobile often make use of more opportunities.
You've stated a lot of facts I agree with and I'm sure many people including myself have worked abroad for the benefits mentioned.
However, I'm suggesting items on your list e.g. 'purchase a house' and 'having children' should be obtainable in the place of your birth for a full-time worker. If they aren't, then those people are indeed being pushed out in order to build a life (one that includes owning their own home). Shelter is a need and if you have to move abroad to obtain/save for it then that equates to being pushed out in my view.
Agreed. And to think the one way to resolve this lack of core opportunity in many parts of the country is to make key changes to lower or at the very least, stabilise long-term, house prices.
Have I asked anyone? Yes of course.
The general answer is to earn double the money in Australia ($100 per hour or more), and for some it can be $2000 per day. Even unskilled 18 years olds earning huge amounts.
Noone is forced out. If you think so , please give me some of your examples?
It's the other way around. 501's get forced out of AUS XD
I agree there are those that go for higher pay and I myself was one of them.
Forced out? No, I don't think anyone is physically forced to go and have no examples of that. But I do think some people are pushed out by the reality of the high cost of housing vs wages in NZ compared to Australia. They may choose to go, but the factors leading into that decision are worth considering and I think B-Rocker was correct that lower wages due to high levels of immigration will have pushed some people overseas at the margin.
This is how I see it also. Being born here doesn't mean much and after school most are better off trying their chances in Australia. Anyone who is patriotic or loyal to NZ will miss out unless their parents provide them with fake success.
The government will say all is fine but the strains will keep showing up in our falling birth rate. They will then respond with more immigration - boosting nominal economic growth through immigration is more important than housing affordability for its citizens.
(I'm actually one with some fake success so this isn't about my own situation)
Most will treat NZ as stepping stone to that big island over to our West direction.
Honestly, I think with climate change, things might reverse in time. It hit 38 degrees in the shade in Brisbane over the New year period. I see it has averaged over 40 degrees in Perth this week. I have done a lot of travelling and most kiwis undervalue how great our temperate and steady climate really is. The economy has blossomed in Greenland in the last few years because of climate change. Why not NZ? Every grey cloud has a silver lining...
In a nut shell: more and more workers competing for less and less jobs.
Getting like america everyday soon it will be shithole according to Trump looks like he will be right.
Looks like he will be right and back in after the results of Iowa never before has a Republican candidate got that higher percentage in Iowa. Interesting times ahead
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