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Natalia Albert argues NZ First's voting rights policy is both xenophobic and a waste of everyone's time

Public Policy / opinion
Natalia Albert argues NZ First's voting rights policy is both xenophobic and a waste of everyone's time
voting
Image source: The Electoral Commission.

By Natalia Albert*

NZ First will have a policy where only citizens of New Zealand can vote. Currently that right is extended to everyone with permanent residency. So, I'll unpack what the current rules are, the difference between permanent residents and citizens, including a plethora of reasons why some folks stay permanent residents during their whole time in New Zealand, what NZ First is suggesting, and why this is all so problematic.

This is an incredibly xenophobic political move as well as a super impractical one, it's a total waste of time. Identity politics aside, it's an inefficient way for politicians to spend their time and money, especially a party that holds serious portfolios and has priorities far more pressing to our day to day lives than whether permanent residents can vote or not. Send help!

Also, I am an overseas born New Zealand citizen, so I have some skin in the game here, and a chip on my shoulder about how migrants, especially brown and black folk from non-English speaking countries, are treated in New Zealand.

Because let's drop the pretence that we are inclusive and kind. New Zealand is categorically not an easy country to live in if you're not white or white passing, and that stands as fact, I'm not here to debate it. If you're brown, black, or middle eastern looking and sounding, you will face more barriers to find work, get a promotion, and build social capital than white passing folk. A fact.

So back to this stupid policy.

What are the current rules?

Right now, you don't need to be a New Zealand citizen to vote here. You need to be 18 or older, have lived in the country continuously for 12 months or more at some point in your life, and be "a resident for electoral purposes." That last bit covers anyone lawfully in New Zealand who isn't required to leave by a set date, which includes permanent residents and some longer-term visa holders.

This is law since 1975, when the law was widened from "British subjects" to include permanent residents regardless of citizenship. Fifty-one years of precedent, not some woke oversight nobody's noticed. Roll eyes!

Now, what is NZ First suggesting?

Winston Peters announced the policy on 5 July at a public meeting in Warkworth: NZ First would campaign to restrict voting in general and local elections to citizens only. His framing was that voting "should be a privilege of those who have sworn allegiance to New Zealand, and who have made the commitment to make New Zealand their home and their future."

His follow up line does is the real gem: "If you haven't made that commitment or sworn that allegiance, we are happy to let you live here permanently, but why should you get a say in how this country is run or governed?" – Because they pay taxes Winston! Simple as that. Will you except permanent residents from paying taxes? Didn’t think so.

His speech questioning why a permanent resident should be able to vote "after a couple of years," and asking whether letting non-citizens vote in referendums that "fundamentally change the social fabric of our society" is really what we mean by democracy. It’s not, it’s actually the opposite.

This is one line in a run of NZ First moves this year: trashing the India NZ trade deal over immigration numbers, a "values statement" for migrants, a member's bill to entrench English as an official language. Whatever you think of the individual merits of each, the pattern is consistent, and this policy sits comfortably inside it. And they are all a waste of time and totally immaterial to our day to day lives.

Permanent resident’s vs citizenship

This is where the policy falls apart on its own terms, because it treats "hasn't become a citizen" as a proxy for "hasn't committed to New Zealand." That's just not true, for a long list of very ordinary reasons.

Start with the big structural one: dual citizenship. New Zealand allows it. Plenty of the countries our permanent residents come from don't. China, India, Japan, Singapore, and Indonesia are the obvious examples, roughly 50 countries in total restrict it.

If you're Indian and you take New Zealand citizenship, you surrender your Indian passport outright, full stop, and can only fall back on an Overseas Citizen of India card, which isn't real citizenship. For someone with ageing parents, property, or family still in the country of origin, that's not a paperwork inconvenience. It's a genuinely hard trade-off between two lives, not a failure of allegiance to either. This is a big deal. I have New Zealand citizenship became I didn’t have to surrender my Mexican one, but if Mexio didn’t allow it, I would have not taken the leap.

Then there's the oath. Citizenship ceremonies require swearing or affirming allegiance to the monarch. For plenty of migrants, particularly from countries with their own complicated colonial history, that's a real sticking point, not administrative friction. And they are entitled to not choose that. They still pay taxes Winston!

Then there's simple bureaucratic inertia. People who arrived decades ago, when the distinction barely mattered because permanent residents could already vote, work, and build a life here, and who just never saw the need to formalise it. Older migrants especially. There's no democratic deficit in someone who's paid tax and voted here for 40 years suddenly being told the bit of paper they never needed now disqualifies them.

And there's cost and process. Naturalisation requires five years of residence, 240 days physically in the country each of those years, English language proof, a character check, and as of November last year, a $560 application fee for an adult, up 19% in a single hike after 22 years untouched. None of that is unreasonable as a bar to citizenship on its own. But it means "hasn't become a citizen yet" captures people mid process, people who can't clear the physical presence test because of work travel or caring for family overseas, and people for whom the cost is a genuine barrier, all lumped in with Peters' implied category of people who simply refuse to commit.

Permanent residence already means someone has been through character checks, health checks, and often years of temporary visas before qualifying. It's not a lesser or looser status than citizenship, it's a different one, with different legal weight. Peters' own framing concedes this when he says permanent residents get to "live, work, study, and build a life" here, then argues that's somehow not commitment enough to have a say in how that life is governed.

The politics of voting restrictions

Restricting who gets to vote has never been about principle. It's about who gets to keep control of outcomes. And it’s a political issue that goes back forever, and it happens in all post-colonial democracies. Franchise rules are drawn by whoever currently holds power, and they tend to move in whichever direction protects that power. Expansion happens when letting more people in defuses a bigger threat. Restriction happens when the reverse calculation kicks in, when there's a fear of losing control over outcomes.

New Zealand loves telling the 1893 story, first country in the world to give women the vote. What gets left out of the primary school version is what happened to Māori voters in the same democracy. Māori didn't get a secret ballot until 1938, 45 years after women's suffrage. They voted on a separate day from everyone else until 1951. And there were no electoral rolls at all for the Māori seats until 1949, because officials argued, in so many words, that compiling them was too difficult given "language, literacy and proof of identity." Not a lack of political will. A framing of the people in question as too complicated to properly count. This is still a case for giving prisoners voting rights and under 16s. Same thing.

None of that is ancient history. And Peters is carrying on this shitty legacy, just aimed at a different group: define a category of resident as not quite ready, not quite trustworthy, not quite committed enough, and dress the restriction up as protecting the integrity of the system rather than narrowing who's allowed to shape it. Restricting a franchise has never once in this country's history been about principle in the abstract. It's been about which group currently holds power deciding who else gets to have a say in keeping it. So when Peters says he wants to "restore" a democratic principle, he doesn’t.

Why it's such a waste of time, ignoring the incredibly loud xenophobic tones it has

Set the xenophobia aside for a second, though we'll come back to it, and look at this as pure political triage. NZ First holds real portfolios right now. Peters is Foreign Minister, Racing Minister, and Rail Minister. Deputy leader Shane Jones runs Oceans and Fisheries, Regional Development, and Resources. These aren't quiet backwaters, and there's no shortage of pressing work sitting on those desks.

None of that is what's getting the airtime. Instead, we get a policy that, if you listen to the framing, sounds like a constitutional crusade against an entrenched provision needing 75% of Parliament or a national referendum to shift. Here's the thing: it might not need either. The Supreme Court has already read down the entrenchment clause covering electoral qualifications, finding it locks in only the voting age of 18, not the citizen or permanent resident test sitting right next to it in the same section. Legal academics still call the whole doctrine's enforceability unsettled. But the practical read is that this could pass on a bare majority, no referendum, no supermajority theatre required.

Which makes the "restoring democratic principle" framing even flimsier, not more solid. This isn't a lonely stand against an immovable constitutional wall. It's a policy that's genuinely achievable, wrapped in language that makes it sound like a heroic uphill fight, aimed at a group of voters nobody, including NZ First, appears to have actually sized up. There's no public breakdown anywhere of how many permanent residents are even on the roll. They're picking a fight over a category of voter whose scale they haven't bothered to establish.

So, what's it actually for? It's a policy that costs nothing to promise and buys a very specific kind of attention. Electoral law barrister Graeme Edgeler has made the useful point that New Zealand does sit at the open end of a global spectrum on this, Australia and the US are citizens only, the UK lets some Commonwealth citizens vote, and Europe splits access between national and EU elections. There's a real conversation available about where New Zealand should sit on that spectrum. That is not the conversation NZ First is having. The conversation NZ First is having uses the word "allegiance" a lot, and points, not especially subtly, at exactly which permanent residents it thinks haven't earned a say.

That's the waste. Not the hours spent on a bill that might actually pass. The opportunity cost of a party with genuine levers over foreign policy, resources, and regional development choosing to spend its political capital re-litigating who gets to belong here, instead of using it on literally any of the portfolios it already holds.


*Natalia Albert is a political scientist living in Wellington exploring how to govern divided societies in diverse, liberal democracies, with a focus on New Zealand politics. She writes weekly on her Substack, Less Certain. Albert stood as a TOP candidate in the 2023 election.

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76 Comments

I’m with Winston Peters on this one. The US, Australia, Canada, and the UK all restrict voting to citizens. Allowing someone to live here for just one year and then have a say in shaping the country’s trajectory means New Zealand is effectively up for grabs — open to whichever party is willing to court mass immigration or favour particular communities to build a voting base. 

One year of residency shouldn’t buy a say in the country’s direction. Every comparable country — the US, Australia, Canada, the UK — reserves that for citizens. NZ should too.

 

 

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Hi Rampart, thanks for reading and commenting. I still strongly disagree. I also disagree with the US, Australia, Canada and the UK. Firstly, a comparison with other countries is unhelpful. Those countries have totally different contexts for their immigration; NZ does not have the same tensions or issues. It’s still wrong for them to not include permanent residents, but it’s harder to argue than in NZ, where we have almost zero illegal immigration or known black markets from immigration like the USA and UK have. Secondly, you don’t seem to understand how permanent residency works here. You need to be here for longer than one year. I had to be a visa holder three years before I held my permanent residency. Study up on the rules before agreeing with Winston please. Mass immigration is NEVER going to happen in NZ for a few easy reasons: geographical location (it’s far away), weather (it’s freezing) and being a permanent resident is tough and requires a certain level of education and money. It sounds like your understanding of immigration is filled with cheap stereotypes, so I hope this helps upskill you in this area. Nat

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"Mass immigration is NEVER going to happen in NZ"

Odd, That's exactly what I would call government policy of the last couple of decades. 

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Hi Palmtree08, we seem to disagree on what we consider Mass immigration. I do not consider what happens in NZ mass immigrations. Moving here is very very hard, highly regulated so the numbers are relatively small and come in very slow waves. How do you define mass immigration? Nat 

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Is your definition of "mass migration" illegal migration like what happens in Europe and the US?

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Hi Zachary, not sure who your comment is directed to. Me or somebody else. My my definition is: Mass immigration is a scare term borrowed from the US and UK, where it means uncontrolled movement: porous borders, large illegal populations, people arriving outside any system. New Zealand’s 28.8% is the opposite: every one of those 1.4 million people came through a controlled process, visa by visa, criteria met, most of them family reunification, skilled workers, and students the country actively selected. Nat 

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Answer to "what percentage of new zealand's population was born overseas?"

"28.8% of New Zealand's population was born overseas, according to Stats NZ

. This equates to roughly 1.4 million people living in the country, making New Zealand's overseas-born population one of the highest in the OECD."

Third highest actually. 

I would call this mass immigration!

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Hi Palmtree08, thanks for doing the research and commenting. 

Yep, your number’s right: just under 30% born overseas, third highest in the OECD. I won’t argue the stat. My point is what it actually describes.

“Mass immigration” is a scare term borrowed from the US and UK, where it means uncontrolled movement: porous borders, large illegal populations, people arriving outside any system. New Zealand’s 28.8% is the opposite: every one of those 1.4 million people came through a controlled process, visa by visa, criteria met, most of them family reunification, skilled workers, and students the country actively selected. That’s not a border being overrun. That’s a border working exactly as designed.

So the high OECD ranking doesn’t prove “mass immigration” it proves New Zealand is a settler country that has always been built by migration and still chooses to be. You can argue the settings are too loose or too tight, and that’s a fair debate. But calling a fully processed, legally screened population “mass immigration” imports a crisis that doesn’t exist here. Nat 

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The term mass migration does not convey the definition legal or illegal, just sheer numbers swamping an existing population. 

Population growth by any measure is really stupid behavior on a planet with life support systems crashing because of human behavior! Sure NZ will suffer the global consequences regardless of cramming more people in, but we don't have to accept it, and add to it as a local community! No one has ever asked me permission for this policy. Choice has never been offered to me! 

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The one time permission was asked and granted in 1840 things didn't go so well for the existing population.

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Long time ago and hardly a unique event, historically, globally. Even further back, if to consider that originating nation, it didn’t go too well for the Celts, the Britons and the Saxons and it might not have gone too well for the Normans if Louis V111 or Philip11 or even Adolf had had their way.

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The difference being, if I were asked now, permission would be refused, if it were to fulfill the goal of deliberately increasing population so elites can cash in, while the living environment crashes. Overcrowded countries being such wonderful places to live and all.

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Even so, and what I believe is in part Redcow’s point, if permission had been denied the newcomers would not  have desisted and withdrawn as was evidenced for instance, in the USA and particularly so in the last half of the 19th century. But then that obviously gets qualified by it being an entirely different transaction when the new arrivals are invitees. 

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the numbers are relatively small and in very slow waves. Every year for the past 25 years immigration has been around 120k per year, up to 150k some years. Births have been around 60k per year. Have two immigrants for every bay born, consistently for a generation is not relatively small nor very slow. It is consistent and very high - and no New Zealander was ever asked if they wanted their population altered in such a dramatic way.

This is Suharto Papua transmigration levels and we all know how that worked out for the locals. How many immigrants per birth would you consider mass immigration?

https://www.stats.govt.nz/topics/migration/

https://figure.nz/chart/2IHZyVDwywc2c2zo-2bCecm6ib4pEv77V

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So, expressing a different perspective warrants a personal attack in reply?

Not what I'm used to here, Natalia.

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Hi Lou, not sure where the personal attack was made. Never my intention, happy to stand corrected, just unsure what part of my reply is a personal attack? I aim to stack the arguments and ideas, which is what politics is about. It’s a contest of ideas. But if I came at someone testable Im happy to course correct. Nat 

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It did seem to be quite a robust reply but I like that.

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It’s still wrong for them to not include permanent residents.....Secondly, you don’t seem to understand how permanent residency works here. You need to be here for longer than one year. I had to be a visa holder three years before I held my permanent residency.

I had PR in Japan. It took minimum of 10 years to become eligible. Even after receiving it, I was not granted voting rights. In most Asian countries, permanent residents do not have voting rights; voting is generally reserved for citizens only, with a few narrow exceptions at local level (notably South Korea). 

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Well said Rampart !

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The issue is for some it means losing their original citizenship. Life can be unpredictable, you may have to move back to your homeland for a while to take care of elderly parents. In Europe visitors from outside EU can only stay 90 days.

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Rubbish, there's nothing Xenophobic at all having to be a New Zealander in order to vote in NZ.  There's no need to make it more complicated than that. 

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Hi Yvil, thanks for comment. You are also wrong. On the mear fact that permanent residents pay taxes, and are liable to follow our laws — but under this logic they get no say in who governs them. So you want to take their money, have them follow rules but not give them a voice? How flawed is your argument? Comments like these just show how casually xenophobic New Zealand can be. I am not over-complicating anything. And you are not keeping it simple, you are ignoring some gross facts about the situation and I am just explaining them. Nat 

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I am an Immigrant Natalia, for me, I am the "they" you refer to, so you got your reply very wrong.  I can vote for my country of origin, I'm happy to accept that if I want to vote in NZ, I should become a New Zealand citizen, not just a resident.  Then there is also the potential conflict of interest in the event of a political disagreement between my country of origin and NZ.

There is nothing xenophobic in having to be a NZ citizen in order to vote in NZ.

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Hi Yvil, thanks for comment. It’s xenophobic when you make a national policy. You and I having our individual presences is not. We can of course disagree, and in fact, you and I disagreeing strengthens my case that folk who migrate here are highly diverse and have very different voting presences. But when you make a call at a formal, institutional level that makes stripping accusations, that is the defensión of xenophobic. On the point of a conflict of interest between country’s, im not sure I understand what you mean. Geopolitics is a global conflict of interest by nature, so happy for you to walk me through that. Nat 

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Renowned American jurist and justice, Sandra Day O’ Connor sums it up for me - “as a citizen, you need to know how to be part of it, how to express yourself, and not just by voting.” Now that should apply across the entire electorate board surely and being involved in any one nation for simply one year can hardly qualify. Five years at the minimum, ten at the most would be a sufficient apprenticeship.  

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"It’s xenophobic when you make a national policy."

Yes, it can be.  I suggest you turn your attention to Te Pati Maori then, a party which bases its policies on race.

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"So you want to take their money, have them follow rules (our laws as per your post) but not give them a voice?"

Yes, of course, otherwise every visiting tourist would be able to vote in NZ.  Your logic doesn't make sense.

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Yvil, tourist do not pay taxes. And if they break our laws, they get deported they don't get trialed here. Nat 

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Heard of GST Natalia?

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So you're saying that tourists don't pay GST in NZ?  What do you think the "T" stands for in GST ?  You're saying that tourists get half price fuel because they don't pay the roughly 50% tax on fuel ?  There are so many other taxes hidden in other products and services that tourists pay, starting with the airport tax hidden in the fllight price when they land.

Edit: snap Palmtree.

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Oh, I thought they faced trial here, paid the judgement, then got deported. 

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Wrong.

You forgot the multiple appeals to higher courts and finally the Minister if needed over many years

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Yvil. You validate my point and as I said in January, oversimplification will be the greatest threat to NZ politics in 2026. Nat 

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"If you're Indian and you take New Zealand citizenship, you surrender your Indian passport outright, full stop, and can only fall back on an Overseas Citizen of India card"

And this is a problem for a New Zealand citizen how exactly? I haven't got an Indian passport? 

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Perhaps Tourists should also have voting rights? I mean they pay various taxes and levies? 

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Why should only tourists have this right? Many people would love to holiday in NZ but can't afford it. They should have voting rights too! 

(sarc)

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Haha, wrong demographic, Natalia! Interest.co.nz is leaning right wing and old

That being said, I'll make the same mistake as you did (preach to the wrong crowd) and argue that maybe the vote should be weighed by age. An 80 something doesn't have the same skin in the game as a 16 year old. The young vote to build something. The old vote just to preserve their wealth, damned be the land they tread upon - after all climate change is not their problem, nor is a faltering extraction economy

Practically hard to implement but not impossible. Hard sell to the geriatric opinionated know-it-better "well, I'm sorted" population. May be practical in some 20-30 years' time though

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Thanks Danicrisis, i understand the demographic. I argue we should be able to debate politics precisely with folks that don't agree with us. It’s good for our democracy and for the quality of a political debate. But yes, clearly not preaching to the converted here :) Nat 

 

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In a world of declining resources and waste sinks, population growth of any sort cannot be justified! I am not against "immigration", I'm against the growthist agenda that uses it to deliberately force increased "economic activity"!

Once NZ gets back to maybe 2 million, a population that can maybe supported ex fossil energy, NPK fertilisers etc and with the depleted general environment we are causing, we can look at maintaining that stable population with immigration if local birth rates are below replacement should we choose. But only then!

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Humph! There is nothing "right wing" about my political stance.

If you believe a deliberate policy of population growth to funnel money to industrialists through banking, developers, real estate and consumption in general is great for 16 year olds, you are not paying attention!

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You would think the oldies would support a lot of immigration in order to bolster the tax base to fund their luxurious retirement. Immigrants to NZ don't threaten their wealth. In reality many of the older generation LARP at being right wing. If the choice was a poverty stricken retirement or more immigration they would undoubtedly choose the latter.

On the other hand, a politically strong youth generation may choose differently if they were promised a future. That may not necessarily  involve high levels of immigration.

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"If a man is not a socialist by the time he is 20, he has no heart. If he is not a conservative by the time he is 40, he has no brain."’

 

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That's a comforting bedtime story for the boomer generation, but the reality begs to differ: https://www.ft.com/content/c361e372-769e-45cd-a063-f5c0a7767cf4

Heck, even in NZ the young are so tired of the xenophobic gentry, current article's chief xenophobe included, that there's really a single demographic buying what the current Coalition is selling: the old males. Every other cohort is rejecting them, some with double digits margins. Check any latest poll demographic breakdown for details

The current extremist wingmen know it and they loathe it. Best proof is the gross rejection of the Independent Electoral Review recommendations by Seymour at the start of their term: https://twitter-thread.com/t/1747026833718284789. They see the tide coming and there's nothing they can do about it, but milk the system for one more hoorah

Must be dreadful to see young ones can't wait for you to croak knowing you'll leave the world better without you. That's what really keeps all the old farts in power awake at night. See Trump, Putin, Bibi, Xi

Sorry, I diverged a bit. But plainly put: the quote above sounds good, it's the wrong doctrine ;) as per latest research

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Must be dreadful to see young ones can't wait for you to croak knowing you'll leave the world better without you. That's what really keeps all the old farts in power awake at night. See Trump, Putin, Bibi, Xi

Really? A Yomiuri Shimbun–Waseda University survey (2025) reported that 59% of Japanese voters opposed “actively accepting foreign workers,” with opposition highest among those aged 18–39 (around 70–71%), higher than in older cohorts [https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/lifestyle-culture/article/3335449/japans…].

Kind of blows your reckon out of the water. 

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What does the anti-foreign sentiment in a notoriously closed society have to do with acceptance of conservative views in the younger generations worldwide?

In particular with the acceptance of a certain dictatorial style of governance, which is the point you quoted?

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What does the anti-foreign sentiment in a notoriously closed society have to do with acceptance of conservative views in the younger generations worldwide?

The data suggests that younger Japanese are less accepting of foreign workers than older Japanese. 

And please remember that the attitudes of the Anglosphere are not representative of global attitudes. 

I'm not sure why Aotearoans, Aussies, Americans, Brits think they're the center of the universe and the benchmark on conservative and progressive values. 

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The whole boomers = bad is shallow in my view. (No I am not one - not that that should matter). Same for other negative generalizations other generations. Each has own circumstances, strengths and weaknesses. 

I posted it a few years go too - the lyrics to Mike and the Mechanics "In the living years" struck me as useful

Every generation
Blames the one before
And all of their frustrations
Come beating on your door
I know that I'm a prisoner to all my father held so dear
I know that I'm a hostage, to all his hopes and fears
I just wish I could have told him in the living years

More crumpled bits of paper
Filled with imperfect thought
Stilted conversations
I'm afraid that's all we've got
You say you just don't see it, he says it's perfect sense
You just can't get agreement, in this present tense
We all talk a different language, talking in defence

oh, say it clear
(You can listen as well as you hear)
(It's too late) it's too late (when we die) oh, when we die
(To admit we don't see eye to eye)

So we open up a quarrel
Between the present and the past
We only sacrifice the future
It's the bitterness that last
So don't yield to the fortunes, you sometimes see as fate
It may have a new perspective, on a different day
And if you don't give up, and don't give in, you may just be OK

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Point taken about generalisations

Boomers = bad is not what I'm trying to convey

Boomers have been raised by people who've had a broader tolerance for random acts of malice than the Gen X or Millennials do. That doesn't make them bad people. But it makes them utterly unfit to lead the Z and Alpha generations into a new world. And that is a hill I'm willing to die on

The current cohort of world leaders and the current relatively younger conservative NZ Coalition just prove my point, along with the xenophobic octogenarian that instigated the whole kerfuffle debated in this article

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@danicriss, comment threads may at times  suggest your older demographic comment is accurate, but readership data shows a broader audience. Interest.co.nz welcomes differing views and healthy, respectful debate. Happy Matariki.

Cheers.

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I was secretly hoping David (Chaston) would come disprove my point about the readers demographic

I'm glad to hear that and never been happier to have been wrong

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And to think PDK said there is no more growth XD

Happy Matariki weekend everyone. 

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It is as said Winston being Winston and shoring up his 5%.

I submit the exampleof my wife, a migrant at age 6 months who grew up in NZ and has lived and worked here for nearly 60 years as a permanent resident before deciding she needed citizenship as she approached retirement age (as extra security).....in a land of migrants (of one duration or another) this is not unusual and has not been a source of problem. 

That however will not lessen the appeal that Winston seeks to benefit from as the previous comments indicate

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'Winston and 5%". Sure is. Winnie knows the hot button issues to push, however vote for him will make zero difference to the human influx. Sure hasn't in the past, having been in government most of the 20th century. It's a do nothing safety valve ensuring BAU.  Winnies "NZ second MAGA" party would be a distant last on my voter preference list. Shane (Digger) Jones plan to sell off the conservation estate to shore up Trumps essential mineral thirst makes the party a hard sell.  

It will be off the agenda for the parties that matter. The left are terrified of labels, xenophobe, racism, discrimination etc, so they can't be expected to do anything about overpopulating NZ and the right want to generate cash for lobbists, lower wages, increase consumption, because, well $$$$ is their only god. 

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NZ First's policy makes political sense for a party of its type. It's a pretty safe suggestion yet reinforces their credentials as a nationalist party. I'd rubber stamp it purely for Machiavellian political pragmatism.

The current trend is to move against immigration and diversity. Everyone can see that diversity has not been particularly beneficial for Europe and there are strong currents growing there to put a stop to it, even reverse it. The US and Canada have their issues too. Australia and NZ have possibly benefited to some extent but this is likely to change.

We're all stuck in a weird sort of malaise, a spiritual doldrums, a lack of a new frontier. Immigrants wont be immune to this either although they have the excitement of a new frontier when they emigrate. If that frontier doesn't provide a better life or a life with hope then high immigration countries problems will be exacerbated. This happens in Europe and elsewhere already.

To think that allowing everyone to vote will make any difference is naïve. Cultural evolution will progress regardless and like biological evolution it wont necessarily be pretty.

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Everyone can see that diversity has not been particularly beneficial for Europe

This remark struck me, leaving me scratching my head trying to figure out what 2,500 years of countless peoples and cultures did to Europe then? Apparently not benefit it according to this metric, written by an account with obvious European heritage in the name

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2,500 years of "countless peoples and cultures" into Europe? Europe was mostly Christendom for the last 1,500 years. Are you referring to the endless waves of alien invaders, Huns, Magyars, Mongols, Avars, Moors, Ottoman Turks and Persians that tried to take over Europe? Most were eventually repulsed. I guess that did improve our war fighting skills.

I was really referring to the recent immigration, since the 1980s. Things haven't improved markedly since then. 

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Danicriss sounds indoctrinated

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Firstly, citizenship establishes ones identity in the world, it is not some minor detail of no import.

Secondly, citizenship bestows rights and priveleges on the holder.

My understanding is that only 5 countries in the world grand universal enfranchisement to legally resident non-citizens: NZ, Chile, Ecuador, Malawi, and Uruguay. And there are a few others that allow it based on historical bilateral ties.

Personally I think that this is a valid debate. 

One element you omit to cover, is that non-citizens legally resident in NZ retain the right to return to their country of citizenship. NZ citizens (unless they hold dual citizenship) do not hold such a right to any other country. So if they chose to depart from NZ they must comply with rules of the destination country. Sure they can move freely to Australia but they do not gain full enfranchisement until becoming an Australian citizen. 

Of the 167 global states and territories, 74 are classified as democracies under 2 categories: 19 FULL DEMOCRACIES (NZ amongst this group); and 55 FLAWED DEOCRACIES (USA, France and Japan amongst this group). And then another 34 classified as hybrid regimes. 

One interpretation of this is that NZ is an outlier in its position on enfranchisement. 

Coupled with that is an estimate that around 15% to 20% of adults (>18 yo) do not hold NZ citizenship but are legal residents and hence entitled to vote. That is a significant number able to influence the democratic process in NZ while retaining the rights and privileges of citizenship in another country. 

In an era when sovereignty (over many aspects of how countries function) is being more generally debated, citizenship is a fundamental element within sovereignty. 

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Good comment Lou. The roll of say, the CCP in NZ elections, can be enough to tip the balance for favourable outcomes. If the marginal voter is a foreign passport holder does NZ actually have sovereignty? 

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https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/97684647/fact-check-new-zealand-has-th…

2017 NZ fastest growing population in OECD, not from babys

My Partner was not born in NZ, 42.9% of Aucklanders, not born in NZ.

Exactly

57.1%

of Aucklanders were born in New Zealand, according to the Stats NZ 2023 Census data

, while the remaining 42.9% were born overseas

If anything is wrong here, perhaps its that NZers (currently here) have never really been asked by a referendum how they feel?

 

IMHO, Auckland has issues from growth without supporting infrastructure, rather then who has come in.

 

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Personally I find the "No supporting infrastucture" argument a bit limp. Seems to say keep cramming them in as long as there are more rivers to be dammed, more sht ponds to be dug and more land to be covered in asphalt.

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Only a very small group of liberal democracies extend national voting rights to permanent residents; these are the exceptions, not the rule.

Most EU states (e.g., Germany, France, Italy): Non‑citizen permanent residents do not vote in national elections, though they may have local or EU‑level voting rights if they are EU citizens in another member state.

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The debate never addresses the future value of economic worth which in my opinion should be the only parameter to consider. Given around half our population will end up extracting more from public finances than they pay over their lifetime shouldn’t we be according citizenships to family groups where they would be net contributors. The end? 

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Like Peter Thiel you mean?

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This isn’t talked about enough. We only want a net positive tax citizen. Growth for the sake of growth just clogs up all the systems and is a drain on our tax revenue. We don’t need Uber drivers and vape store clerks.

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I'd argue otherwise in terms of the net positive stance. We have a criteria for residency and citizenship (I've worked for DIA in the past in this space), and if people get through the immigration hoops and meet the criteria to apply for citizenship then they have the right to do so. I don;t believe putting hurdles at the citizenship end will help anything. More so it will simply add cost to processing and to the taxpayer.

Immigration is the biggest beast to solve (the govt department, not the broader sector). We need to be mature and understand we rely on immigration and without it we would have a vast shortage of workers to do so many roles that NZ'ers seem to think they are above doing. In light of this, we are now dealing with the wake of the previous govt granting residency to a large volume of people who got stuck in NZ 2020 due to lockdowns, and they will become eligible for citizenship after holding a residency visa for 5 years provided they meet the criteria for number of days in NZ per year.

I feel that NZ needs to be realistic and realise that like any other desirable country, there will be some who seek to rort the system, manipulate it and take it for a ride, and keep track of this space better in the immigration space. Seek knowledge from the UK whom we have goof ties with and can share intelligence to build our capability here.

Yet, in order solve this conundrum, we need to address how our pension system is funded or we will only rely on more and more immigration simply to keep tax take coming in, and to hell with the calibre of applicants as long as they are working and paying tax. If we can address this, we can target more skilled migration and prevent flow on costs of a pension system that is due to implode unless changes are made. 

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All the semantics aside, adding the equivalent of a city larger than Dunedin every year, where there has been no serious attempt to create infrastructure to support the influx, is physically unsustainable. 

That is a massive inflow in a country of our size and how can we expect people being treated as commodities to feel as though they have any stake in this place? There has been little or no thought given to integrating the new people in to New Zealand society, and that is socially destabilising becasue we have ended up as a nation of disparate groups with little in common other than a dedication to maintaining their identities.

Development of a mature economy is not growth at any cost, where we have wound up with more hands doing things less productively, and the last decades of immigration policy are coming home to haunt us as our GDP per head keeps falling.

Winston doesn't like new immigrants voting as they likely won't vote for NZ First. 

All that said, I think citizenship should be a requirement for voting as it demonstrates a committent to this place that policy hasn't tried to inculcate. However, that leaves the issue of a good number of permanent residents who work here and pay taxes not being represented. For the sake of democracy and natural justice that has to be resolved somehow. EDIT: perhaps voting rights once you embark on the citizenship path, as it shows committent to staying, rather than maintaining old allegiances and using NZ as a stepping stone to other places?

 

 

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All the semantics aside, adding the equivalent of a city larger than Dunedin every year, where there has been no serious attempt to create infrastructure to support the influx, is physically unsustainable. 

Correct. If the provision of infrastructure does not grow proportionately to popn growth, than the standard of living deteriorates for everyone, regardless if you're a migrant or established citizen. 

The only political parties to address this issue seem to be NZ First and One Nation in Aussie. Everyone else ignores it. So to even mention it, the wokesters will immediately lump you in with all the other segmentations that they despise. I won't repeat their nasty and passive-aggressive labels as I find it particularly infantile.    

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Opened a can of worms here. Thread seems to have veered off course into whether migration is good or not. 
I thought the original article was a reasonable argument. Especially the paying tax get a vote angle. No problem with the existing arrangement. 

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Except NZ is one of only 5 countries that allows this (NZ, Chile, Ecuador, Malawi, and Uruguay). In other democracies you still pay the tax with no right to vote (USA, Oz, UK, France.....)

This rarefied NZ status arguably makes NZ an attractive country to emigrate to as legally resident immigrants have the best of worlds, influence over the governance of NZ at national and local levels; and free entry back into their country of citizenship. 

And, as recent history has shown, there have been big numbers of immigrants arriving into NZ (I think I read NZ is 3rd ranked in OECD  for numbers of immigrants per capita). This has contributed to lifting total GDP in NZ and declining per capita GDP. 

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Yet, citizenship is required to vote in federal elections. 

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Representation? Here was me thinking elections were a rubber stamping process where polies get the keys to do what their favourite donors and lobbyists want?

 

 

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That's not mutually exclusive

The election is to choose which ones get the keys. Somewhat different donors and lobbyists, you see

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That's by design. Technical term is dog whistling. Basically Winston is appealing his base, which he knows is xenophobic, be it in the open or closeted if circumstances call for that

Can't wait for this chameleon to go into the rubbish bin of history with all his corrupt cronies 

Can't deny he has some good ideas as well, but his tolerance - no, actually, nurturing - of corruption and his inflammatory discourse make him a net negative in politics as of late

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Corruption? Indeed. The quality of NZF MPs is scarily low! 

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