Who should be the next Labour leader?

Phil Goff expected to step down as Labour leader on Tuesday. Who should take his place? Cunliffe, Parker, Robertson, Little, Street, Jones, Shearer?

28th Nov 11, 9:26am by Alex Tarrant

Labour Party leader Phil Goff is expected to stand down as leader of the party when Labour's caucus meets in Wellington on Tuesday.

Goff said yesterday he took responsibility for Labour's 27% share of the vote in Saturday's election.

Radio New Zealand polical editor Brent Edwards said this morning that, of the two front-runners for the job, he understood David Parker had the edge over David Cunliffe.

Many Labour MPs are apparently "furious at what they see as Mr Cunliffe's lack of support for Mr Goff" over the last year.

Who do you think should be the next Labour Party leader?

Should Phil Goff stay on as party leader?

Is it between David Cunliffe and David Parker?

Who else could be in-line for the job - Shane Jones, Grant Robertson, Andrew Little, Maryan Street, David Shearer?

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55 Comments

by skudiv | 28th Nov 11, 9:52am 1322427144

Shane Jones? The guy who rented porno on the taxpayer account? Perfect.

by The best statu… | 28th Nov 11, 10:05am 1322427900

Comment deleted by Alex

by Vanderlei Luxemburgo | 28th Nov 11, 10:09am 1322428190

It seems pretty clear they need some fresh legs. Their list has way too many people tainted by the stink of the clark/cullen years....people who believe that they ran a fiscally prudent government (low debt) and seem to have no guilt about allowing a housing bubble to inflate to the point where it endangers the economy.

I'm picking Cunliffe and Parker both think they've done their time and so now deserve a crack but that is ultimately selfish thinking. They can't escape the stink. Too many lifers/troughers.

Does anybody know about Ardern and Robertson? All I know about Ardern is that she has magnificent choppers. But maybe they need someone like Little - a pro-union pro-worker scrapper.

They need to clear the deadwood, but I doubt they actually will. Too hard to get the pigs from the trough.

by Alex Tarrant | 28th Nov 11, 10:11am 1322428264

Reports this morning that Robertson might be a number two to Parker's ticket.

Perhaps it should be the other way around?

by Gummy Bear Hero | 28th Nov 11, 10:48am 1322430505

Yes , Grant Robertson would be the ideal man to lead NZ Labour , which is why I think that David Cunliffe will get the gig !

...... they really gotta figure out where they're disconnected from the public ......'cos we aren't changing our views to suit them !

And they need to boot some of the tired old hacks off that party list , and bring some of the fresh young talent into play .

The ghost of Helen Clark hangs over NZ Labour until they change policy & personnel .

by Wolly | 28th Nov 11, 1:45pm 1322441143

I'm with VL.....give 'choppers' a nash at it....she can sink them into JK for a laugh!

by ex agent | 28th Nov 11, 10:13am 1322428415

The Labour Party is a dinosaur. They need to change their name and get a bit more positive and aspirational. People want less tax,less government intervention, less governement spending and when people get ahead they want less taken off them just because they are working hard and making progress.

by Vanderlei Luxemburgo | 28th Nov 11, 10:30am 1322429426

you're right Ex-A

the nats have gobbled up everything from the centre all the way out to the Banksian-lunatic-fringe - making it a big tent indeed.

Labour's left has been fractured so obviously they need to do something new....perhaps go through the successful parts of europe (ie some of the scandinavian ideas around social health and education, and oil revenue management and green tech) and asia (singaporean currency mgmt )

The thing is I really don't think Key was unbeatable this last election, there was no way he'd lose to Goff, but he had weaknesses. It was just that so many Labour lifers still had their big clown gloves on from the Clark/Cullen years and so couldn't land a punch.

Those who fail to learn the lessons of history......

by Philly | 28th Nov 11, 12:45pm 1322437557

interesting comments VL

"big tent" can lead to fractious problems, as they start splintering & infighting, & requiring heroic efforts by the leader to keep them on song. So Key mightn 't be smiling so much in another year or two

re the name - I often wonder whether they should go to the Social Democrat name or similar. "Labour" is such a negative turn-off name

I agree about needing to re-invent themselves

Cheers to all

by delboy | 28th Nov 11, 4:04pm 1322449466

I agree the name Labour, the colour red and their negativity is just very depressing. For me in this day and age their brand conjures up thoughts of big old smoke belching factories, dirty freezing works, aging unionists and electorate offices which are like scenes from the TV show "Gliding On".

The Greens on the other hand, although more leftist than Labour, seen more upbeat and positive. I sit right of centre but could one day vote Green once they mature and drop the social engineering stuff which at the moment I believe is the part that turns off the voters like myself.

by Philly | 28th Nov 11, 5:48pm 1322455698

Delboy: give up all hope. The Greens are a pack of school teachers, hopelessly wedded to big government spending & regulation. I admire the discipline the Greens have shown, and some of their policy, but they will never move from the far left. They will always remain a niche party.,

Cheers

by steven | 28th Nov 11, 6:14pm 1322457250

almost 11% and the third biggest is a pretty big niche...

regards

by steven | 28th Nov 11, 6:16pm 1322457381

This is my problem, I want a similar thing....oh for a good leader like Maggie Thatcher.....however I want a green tinge now, its getting to late to wait.

regards

by steven | 28th Nov 11, 6:18pm 1322457524

No this is your opinion on what you and some ppl want... Some ppl want a lot less in-equality, no more asset sales, a fair tax system....sure they want to get ahead and see others do as well....when there is a level playing field.

regards

by LloydM1 | 28th Nov 11, 10:42am 1322430168

Alex - Why do you not address some real issues around this insted of posting what is effectively a tabloid style tid bit?

Of those names mentioned in the tid bit - Andrew Little understand that we can't pay back our debt, and because of that we are no longer a sovereign nation.

Parker and Cunlife are both stooges and lightweights - Neither have any idea of how to address NZ's problems, and more than I would estimate 99% of the MP's or 99% of those who contribute here...Why, Because they do not understand or want to accept the root cause of the problems..

Until that happens the rest is a WASTE OF ENERGY!

by Gummy Bear Hero | 28th Nov 11, 11:16am 1322432201

Hi Alex : Would you be able to run a " Reader Poll " on the new leader(s) of the NZ Labour Party ?

by SmoKey | 28th Nov 11, 11:49am 1322434146

They should do an ACT and get Hone to lead the..for the rebuilding..

by ngakonui gold | 28th Nov 11, 12:34pm 1322436887

jones and little.

one can watch porn the other can count his luck that he's a member of parliament. unelected of course.

by Frazcam | 28th Nov 11, 12:44pm 1322437450

I agree - perhaps the Labour Party should change their name to the Greens?

by Chairman Moa | 28th Nov 11, 1:01pm 1322438486

Bring back Helen and make Shane no 2. he'll be too scare to watch any more porno..

by Gummy Bear Hero | 28th Nov 11, 1:43pm 1322441001

Who needs porno when you have the real thing !

by Wolly | 28th Nov 11, 1:47pm 1322441241

Have you got the Poor and the "NO" Gummy...your greedy old coot...

by Chairman Moa | 28th Nov 11, 2:04pm 1322442264

GBH

Interesting thought with helen?... mmm having that prospect, wouldn't surprise me if he goes and bat for the other team...

by Gummy Bear Hero | 28th Nov 11, 2:18pm 1322443128

Imagine her , togged out head to foot in skin-tight black leathers , a cat-o-nine-tails in one hand ...... that fiendishly surly grimace upon her countenance ..... Dominatrix Hell-en does it all ...

.... are you man enough , Chairman ..... to suffer for your sins ...... hmmmm ?

by David B | 28th Nov 11, 4:11pm 1322449919

Don't you beleive it, Gummy. She'd want to sit down and have a good cry first, just like she did when Hone's mum wouldn't let her sorry white honky's ass speak on the marae.

by Gummy Bear Hero | 28th Nov 11, 7:47pm 1322462833

Ha ha de haaaaaaa , yesssssss !

......Bless her , .. Hone's Mum , she proved to us all that acidic vitriolic insane old racists aren't necessarily white !

by rc | 28th Nov 11, 1:40pm 1322440828

Is Labour still relevant to the 21st century?

Former staunch left wing commentator Chris Trotter thinks maybe not so much as they were 30 years ago

by Anarkist | 28th Nov 11, 2:39pm 1322444356

I was thinking today that the Labour Party has to radically reinvent themselves. The election result has shown that they've failed to adapt to the fundamentally changed social environment. The Labour movement in New Zealand is finished. They're in the ironic position where the PSA is argually their core constituency, most of whom are staunchly middle class. And even there many have been lulled by John Key's soft approach to change and have embraced the National Party, many of them likely wouldn't have contemplated such a thing in the 1990s. Demographic change also likely has a decisive influence. Labour is likely now perceived as the woolen jumper and dowdy cotton smock party. A party for folks not quite old enough to vote for Winston Peters.

John Key and his political advisors have shown admirable genius in their softly softly boiling the frog approach to structural reform and have managed successfully to broaden their electoral base in the last few years. They've divested themselves of the reckless all at once structural reform approach that proved so unpopular during Jim Bolgers electoral term, which culminated in the sacking of Ruth Richardson and the National Party's ignoble defeat in 1999 at the ballot box. The current Party's reform agenda is every bit as radical as their predecessors, but their tactics are incremental, basically swiped from those of their ideological enemies, the Fabian socialists. Perhaps after the next term New Zealanders will wake up in a vastly different nation, wondering how it all happened. Good luck folks, is all I can say.

by David B | 28th Nov 11, 4:06pm 1322449585

I think you're right, Anarkist. Times have moved on but Labour has not kept up with them. They seem stuck in the politics of their youth, the 1970s and 80s. Hippies, Muldoon, Lange, nuclear free NZ, workers vs employers, Gay rights, Maori rights and Women's rights. All that was 30 years ago. They need some more Now people.

by Anarkist | 28th Nov 11, 6:36pm 1322458612

Yes you're right David B, they have not kept up with the times, but you have to be aware that Labour are a fundamentally divided party and one could say the same about all the political parties in parliament. Michael Cullen' was suitably chastened after his reported comment, "we won, you lost, eat that" back in 1999, once he was made aware who had the true power in our society. And as Fran O'Sullivan says heirs appararent professed a business friendly when they were in power, so one would assume they would continue along those lines should they regain office, once they set aside their "politics of envy" rhetoric they use to appeal to the quedulous electorate.

"Finance Minister Michael Cullen's standard riposte to uppity business folk: "We won, you lost, eat that" - is not the order of the day when it comes to Labour's new generation of ministers, who now lose little opportunity to promote themselves as "on business's side"."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/fran-osullivan/news/article.cfm?a_id=13&objec…

The Labour party were solid advocates of Fabian "Third Way" politics that perceives there to be no intrinsic need for there to be antagonism between Capital and Labour attempts to reconcile their disparate demands. Using the apparent magic of the Financial Sector was a key strategem for them under the rubric of Public Private Partnerships. A delusion aim if there ever was one, especially when faced with modern realities.

"Under the last Labour government, legislation was brought in to support "good faith" behaviour between employers and employees.

The buzzwords and mantra over the past decade in the CTU and Business NZ was "productive workplace partnerships".

The conventional wisdom was that if workers and employers worked together as partners on things that they had in common, then that would lead to better profitability, and consequently better wages and conditions for employees."

http://www.unite.org.nz/node/557

What people fail to be cognizant of, is that we've moved into a completely different reality now, where global cooperation and joint action in achieving shared goals of prosperity and social stability no longer defines world affairs as prevailed in the wake of the Bretton Woods conference. Now we live in a world defined by ruthless, cut-throat, dog eat dog, competition between super powers and those who fight over the scraps. The past decade, an era one could indeed describe as the Great Moderation, represents the last gasp delusion that we can reconcile the profit maximising impetus of unleashed corporativist capitalism and social equity and stabiity. We're going to suffer through the ultimate hangover from that delusion for some time to come. If not a severe toxic shock, after a reckless binging session.

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1944/440722b.html

"Like European enterprises in the 19th century, US companies have enjoyed “home field advantage” throughout the 20th century. They dwelt in the most vibrant economy, drew upon the most mobile and best-educated workforce, enjoyed the most plentiful sources of capital and sold in the most attractive market for goods and services. If a company wanted to be significant, it had to win in the US market...

Now we are into the 21st century and it is already clear that home field advantage is crossing the Pacific. In this century, China and India look to be the great canvases upon which economic successes will be painted. ...

If Americans and Europeans want to win in the 21st century, we must learn to play better in away games. As this new world dawns, we are beginning to experience the dark side of natural selection, the perspective of those selected against, rather than for. This is Darwin ... wielding the sharp, pointed stick of failure. Interestingly, it is failure – most dramatically the threat of extinction – that drives evolution, not success. Successful species do not mutate: they ... breed until such time as they consume all the free resources in the ecosystem and only then do they begin to mutate... That time is now."

http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2006/04/its_a_fish_eat…

by goNZ | 28th Nov 11, 3:07pm 1322446029

the wool farming lobby will appreciate having a Shearer in a leadership role.

Mr Little could try hard at being deputy and imagine the possibilities with headlines e.g

"Little wonders at Big Loss " etc

PS - why isnt Mallard having a shot at it ,anyhow ? Tau reckons he packs a punch

by Billy | 28th Nov 11, 3:33pm 1322447614

I know which David I don't want to be the leader of Labour. The one who tried to sabotage his leader. Such people cannot be trusted.

by David B | 28th Nov 11, 3:57pm 1322449075

My 2c worth for what it's worth is that David Cunnilife would be the best Leader for Labour.

by Gummy Bear Hero | 28th Nov 11, 7:42pm 1322462532

Seriously , you are a sh*t-stirrer , DB ......... DC's own colleagues hate him ! .... and David Parker has an unenviable likeness to both Phil Goff and to Aussie Kevin Rudd .......

...... if NZ Labour really wanted to challenge the Nats in 2014 , they need to think outside of the incumbent Helen Clark brigade .....

Grant Robertson as leader , Jacinda Ardern as his deputy ! ....... the Gummster hath spoken .

by Chairman Moa | 28th Nov 11, 4:54pm 1322452442

Is there a gay David - the two I am thinking of aren't! So they can't be hard core Labour..

by Matt S | 28th Nov 11, 5:15pm 1322453738

Phil Geoff should remain leader. He has done wonders for Labour IMHO.. he's taken support down to less that 30% !! With his continued leadership Labour will be history by the next election, best thing that could ever happen to this country !!

by dosser | 28th Nov 11, 5:21pm 1322454106

King as caretaker followed by O'Connor in 2 years' time. He would resonate with the man in the street in the way none of the Davids could ever hope to.

by Chairman Moa | 28th Nov 11, 5:40pm 1322455214

Phil should go out with Arnold's famous line "I'll be back!" (deeper musclier voice of course)

by MortgageBelt | 28th Nov 11, 6:20pm 1322457638

Stuart Nash

But the Gaggle of Gays & Helen Clark sycophants wouldn't give him a decent position on the List, so with 12,600 votes in Napier he's looking for a job .... He's too .... normal? decent... etc for Labour.

by Kate | 28th Nov 11, 7:11pm 1322460702

Co-leaders - Lianne Dalziel and David Shearer.

Take a leaf from the Greens recipe - co-leaders,

one male, one female

one humanitarian, one lawyer

one new, one experienced

And the difference about Lianne as one of the experienced - she stood down from the list, putting all her eggs in the electorate basket... a principled stance.

And in opposition, one of the big ticket items they should agitate on is the Christchurch recovery disaster. Time to take the gloves off on that one and start pointing out that National has done nothing but add bureaucracy and incompetance - while the flight of people is destined to be dwarfed by the flight of capital, once the insurance payouts come to fruition.

by MortgageBelt | 28th Nov 11, 7:19pm 1322461181

Too bossy, too yesteryear .... actually Labour has no talent of the stature of someone votable as Prime Minister. And really, who cares? Winston will be Leader of the Opposition for the next 3 years.

Labour is just so strident, and bossy, and ..... reminiscent of your school teacher - oh yes that's right most of them are ex-school teachers....

by Wolly | 28th Nov 11, 7:37pm 1322462243

Hey...who you calling bossy...you you

by Kate | 28th Nov 11, 7:38pm 1322462325

But they aren't choosing a Prime Minister!!! That's the whole point!

They are choosing the best amongst themselves as Opposition leaders. Yes, Lianne is an effective bossy, battler - imagine she and Winston as a tag team at Question time. The Opposition needs "oxygen", sound bites while in opposition. That's what keeps you relevent and in the game. Goff failed miserably in that regard - which is why Key had such a dream run with the media - nothing "saleable" was happening on the opposition benches. Parliament was boring - government was boring, and that was reflected in the poor voter turnout.

We need an effective opposition that makes politics popular - Winston and Hone can't do it on their own ... and a bossy female with debating experience would add plenty to the fun of it all. Lianne for example has been a hit on that TV programme Backbenches (or whatever it's called) - she's got a quick wit and can think on her feet. She can teach the less experienced David Shearer plenty if they worked together as co-leaders. And were they co-leaders, Labour gets two for one in the media stakes as both their opinions would be worthy of reporting.

by Gummy Bear Hero | 28th Nov 11, 8:32pm 1322465559

Grant Robertson & Jacinda Ardern would be fresh beginning for Labour , a dream-team of world experience and youthfulness ....... Fresh ideas and a zing of energy : Ka-powie !

..... or we could get some of the old hands , from the failure years , various Davids , a Ruth , a Lianne or so , or some clown ex-union boss who was despised by his own union members .. same old , same old ...

by Kate | 28th Nov 11, 8:44pm 1322466290

I do love your sense of humour...

Nice young folks they might be, but a guy in a civil union and a gal who put up a private members bill to make same sex adoption legal? ... yeah, right.

by Willy Foo Foo | 28th Nov 11, 7:37pm 1322462226

I agree with you about David Shearer. He is fresh, has an impressive CV and has the best chance of beating John Key.

He gave a speech today calling for reform of the party outlining how Labour needs to make some serious changes.

by steven | 28th Nov 11, 8:57pm 1322467068

Two leaders is whats known as a co-operative style......but then since you lack any style at all.....it doesnt syurprise me you wouldnt comprehend.

regards

by delboy | 28th Nov 11, 8:49pm 1322466559

Co-leaders for Labour. How about Darien Fenton and Steve Chadwick?

by steven | 28th Nov 11, 8:16pm 1322464568

Chch is dead....RIP.

regards

by Gummy Bear Hero | 28th Nov 11, 8:23pm 1322465004

Oh no it's not , you recovery denier .

Chch is in good heart . The city is alive , vibrant , waking up to a new normal ......

regards

by NeilD | 28th Nov 11, 9:37pm 1322469465

.........post peak quake!

by Wolly | 29th Nov 11, 8:19am 1322507981

Dunno Gummy...I drove through chch a week ago and the Avon was a metre higher than the local area...only some flimsy stopbanks were preventing a flood...what happens on a King Tide with a low pressure system in place and heavy rain in the area?

by steven | 28th Nov 11, 8:23pm 1322465036

I find it entertaining how quick the right wingers are to dis a left wing leader and then offer "sage" advice on a new one...

"we" or that should actually be you, wont know anything....

Laughable....

regards

by Basel Brush III | 29th Nov 11, 8:11am 1322507507

One thing for certain with a topic like this is the red-necks with a debauched sense of humour(?) will "come out" in droves.

Oh well!

Now just suppose JK was not there in the Nats. Who would you choose from them?

Same problem. Eh?

by Chairman Moa | 29th Nov 11, 12:09pm 1322521749

Hey there Labour caucus, can we have Jacinda as leader? Labour needs a new good looking image, I know it's a radical change from the old ugly looking one..