New Zealand lost 13,577 NZ citizens in year to August, almost double the previous year's loss. But the net gain from migration still almost reached 54,000

New Zealand lost 13,577 NZ citizens in year to August, almost double the previous year's loss. But the net gain from migration still almost reached 54,000

There has been a strong increase in population growth from migration, with Statistics New Zealand estimating a net gain of 53,810 people in the 12 months to the end of August, up 9.4% compared to the previous 12 months.

That was the result of 149,834 people arriving in this country on a long-term basis in the 12 months to August, compared to 139,095 in the previous 12 months, (up 10,739 or 7.7%). Meanwhile 96,025 people departed long-term, compared to 89,898 (-6.8%) over the same period last year.

The country suffered a net loss of 13,577 New Zealand citizens in the year to August, almost double the net loss of 7265 in the year to August 2018 and more than three time the net loss of New Zealanders in the year to August 2017. There was a net gain of 67,387 citizens from other countries, which was up 19.3% on the previous 12 months.

China remained the biggest source of migrants in the 12 months to August with a net gain of 10,406 from that country, and another 699 from Hong Kong, followed by South Africa 9438, India 8345, the Philippines 7055 and Australia 4989.

The number of UK citizens settling here was relatively low, with a net gain of just 1647 in the 12 months to August, fewer than the net gain from the USA of 031, Samoa 2245, and Fiji 1826.

Of the 149,834 people who arrived for the long-term in the 12 months to August, 44,311 were Australians or returning New Zealanders, 32,989 were on work visas, 31,174 on visitor visas, 27,297 on student visas and 12,836 on residence visas.

However Statistics NZ's migration estimates can be unreliable and the above figures are provisional and may subject to substantial revisions for up to six months after publication.

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The government is doing a sterling job for house prices to rise, I may have to vote for Labour next year

Spare a thought for the DGM.......

They're caught in cannon fire...... with many casualties already.


You can almost hear the shorts squeeling...

This is why all the media reports of a housing shortage are just bs, and the govt obviously now knows this.

@voiceofreason... of course they do

Still with all this immigration, we're not seeing property prices or GDP rise much in Auckland. With the biggest influx form China (and HK), could it be they still can't get their money out and won't be able to for the significant future. Seems that NZ is just a place for people to run to not to prosper in.
Nikkei Asian Review Article: China clamps down on capital flight risk as yuan weakens

The only thing propping up the pricing is interest rates.

Now that JA has missed the Nobel and there is no more talk of her becoming UN SecGen, do you think she will look to having a go at some of NZ's critical policy issues ? Or will she continue to be happy with her cabinet colleagues drawing and announcing the policies, without worrying about their implementation ?
One term, nah, make that One Year Wonder...Leaving us all wondering, for sure.

Just as you cannot win lotto without a ticket, neither can you win a Nobel Prize without a nomination, speaking of which, they close on February 1 each year, a full month and a half before the incident from which her actions might still gain her a nomination for next year.
By the way, the winner was extremely worthy, wouldn't it be great to see some articles about the almost miracle he has achieved rather than the absolute BS that Ardern (Thunberg,as well, by the way) was among the nominees


@ pocket aces ..... she was never going to win the prize .............and wearing a headscarf does not a Muslim make .

She would do well to get an understanding of the awful conditions many Muslim woman are subjected to in many Muslim countries ................ in many cases women still do not have the vote , just for starters .

That they cannot inherit on becoming a widow ( it goes to the male relatives ) is another problem
'Ownership " of wives is another awful reality .
Banning girls from school
Banning women from driving
Keeping them locked up at home
Openly recognizing and treating them as second class citizens
Genital mutilation of young girls is widespread particularly in African Muslim societies

We New Zealanders dont have the faintest idea of what being a Muslim is for many women in Muslim societies .

"Genital mutilation of young girls is widespread particularly in African Muslim societies"

...And witnessed by a number of Auckland primary school teachers.

This isn't a Muslim society


With changing demographics will come changing society.

Islam represents 1% of our population. Might take a while.

Yeah, it's comparatively small here. Most of our demographic change is fueled by other populations.


@Yvil what I dont understand is how the Government is missing the obvious anger and dissent over the issue of immigration ............ dont they know the mood right now , or are they too busy gazing into the mirror ?

A very good question. May be the parties here need the American style of town hall meetings, focus groups, etc. The current polls, seem to be manufactured with ridiculously small and skewed samples.

My impression is that this is one particular area where some in both parties for one or other reasons really do believe they know best and that any and all opposition to the idea is misguided, or xenophobic, or founded in thinking that merely needs to be "corrected". They don't seem to agree with Michael Reddell that there are positives and negatives, rather than entirely positives.

Like we've seen in other countries, the temptation of immigration as a short term economic sugar rush is nigh on irresistible and the preferences of any existing general local population the politicians purport to represent will not be taken into account. Besides, Kiwis don't want to work as restaurant managers for $45k for years and years and rent a small hovel to huddle in.


Those broken promises are starting to add up for JA.


It does seem strange, that they don't appear to be gauging the discontent around this issue.
This would appear to be an easy win for them at the stroke of a pen, yet nothing.


... wheres Winston ! .... not a peep out of Mr Anti-immigration ...

Oh , that's right ... Shane Jones & him are too busy figuring out ways to spend the $ 3 billion regional growth fund monies Taxcinda bribed him with , to shut him up .

Gummy - that's now $13b once you include moving the port. It's a republican-style pork barrel spend-up but with staggeringly higher numbers. And everyone is just fine with it.


This Government has been a total disaster .......... and Jacinda walking around with a headscarf on simply does not cut it .

The have failed on EVERY SINGE ELECTION PROMISE , here is the REPORT CARD card of their term so far

IMMIGRATION .......................... F for fail
HOUSING ................................. F
CHILD POVERTY ...................... F
HEALTH .................................... F
EDUCATION ...............................F
100,00 HOUSES .........................TOTAL F ( EXAM PAPER NOT HANDED IN )
1 BILLION TREES .......................F
ENERGY .....................................F (BANNED OIL & GAS without warning )
DRAMA ......................................A

Jacinda's favourite sport is side -stepping , and as Captain of the school side-stepping team she has done very well . She is an active member of the school gymnastics team and her somersaults and flip-flops are legendary

Jacinda is a lovely smiley girl who has actively taken part in every possible junket and trip outside New Zealand this year . She needs to focus more on her work , and stick to dealing with things that really matter . As class captain she has not achieved much at all , with the headmaster and teachers having to deal with all manner of unpleasantness among her peers . She is very creative and her ability to try and shake down hard working Kiwis for more tax is one of her strongest traits .

That only works so long as for the most part, F stands for F..k of a lot more than National


I’m looking at that list and thinking what the Nats did about any of that except create a housing bubble/crisis, and greater inequality, under-fund health, and actively enourage fossil fuel extraction while pretending to care about climate.


Therein lies the problem.

Labour needs to do better, but National were actively worse for young New Zealanders.

Yes, the govt needs to do better, can't help thinking that apart from Tracey Martin (that woman needs to find herself a decent political party) they are fairly hamstrung by NZF. I really do look forward to their demise, they are far too duplicitous.

The reality is they are all gutless wonders. It wouldn't surprise me to see some sort of nationalist uprising, ala trump, I know Im sick of the molly coddling do nothing approach.

Pike River ............ F for fail
Plenty of money spent for absolutely nothing and just more BS

I wonder how much a single homicide costs to investigate, now multiply that by 29. By your reasoning we could save a whole heap more by not investigating any suspicious deaths.

I have been overseas and I missed the Pike River re-entry, what happened? If they didn't re-enter, why not?

I suspect it's not as simple as moving a few boulders and bob's your uncle.

Of course it isn't that simple, that's why it wasn't done before but I'm sure Labour had a good plan to re-enter after everyone else said it couldn't be done safely


So, if new migrants come in and established citizens/residents leave the country, is that good or bad for the culture and climate of NZ ? Mere substitution by numbers is not telling the correct story. When will the government, MPs, policy makers, bureaucrats, etc realise this ? May be good for some business owners and property investors, but not for the economy, I think.
We need urgently a referendum on this vital issue. Annual numerical quota on different visa types, voted by only citizens.

I very much agree with you Smokey, my comment above was sarcastic (in case some didn't realise it)

I disagree , we dont need a referendum , its too complicated an issue and more complex than Brexit for most folk , what we do need is a public debate on immigration .

How do you structure a public debate ?
A Hui might get more attention.

A public debate on Immigration.. dunno how you'd structure it, but the location would have to be under a bigtop.. because it sure as heck is going to be a circus...

We just need a recession to sort out immigration. You know, free markets run in cycles right?

Aust will soon close that loop hole!


I've booked my tickets, leaving to Aus at the beginning of next year. I've totally had it with this country. I'll take my skills, education and experience somewhere where I'll actually be able to afford a house and still have a half decent job. The special category visa will be dead in the water, my feeling is they are planning to kill it already. I'll be ok as I'll qualify under skilled category but many NZers won't and they can thank both the Key and Ardern govts for that.


Agreed. You can spend a lot of money and a lot of energy going nowhere in NZ. The problem is the rest of the country isn't going anywhere either. National won't and Labour can't. By the time you've paid off a student loan, you've still got the price of a brand new home in Brisbane as a mortgage to get through before retirement, on low wages.

Governments (states and fed) in Aus have committed tens of billions in funding for modern infrastructure and research initiatives in a push to diversify their commodity-based economies in the long-run, with lots more to come.

Add their government's toughening stance towards permanent migration to the mix and you could see a pick up in number of NZers leaving for Australia in the years to come.


I sold my house in 2014 which was 20 mins walk from top of Queens st, it's just an average 3br home with tiny garden. Got to Brisbane, found a job within 2 weeks higher pay than Auckland + 17% super contribution form employer. 3 mths later we bought a 5br home near the CBD with pool for exactly 60% of the price I got for my Auckland home. I miss the cool weather of Auckland but apart from that nothing else!

Comment deleted

Actually not that much, I checked home for estimate selling price and had the same percentage increase as my home here in Brisbane (I was surprised though).
Something that I was taught by a very famous richlister when I was flatted next door to him in Wellington as a uni student, he said "it's never the right time to sell or buy a house, you just have to do what you need to do". In that sense, I never regret selling our Auckland home!

Bobby J?

No, he was living in Lower Hutt! I met him once on a bush walk, very interesting fellow..


I think you failed to grasp the essence of what he's saying.
He had a 3br house in Auckland. He now has a 5br house (with a pool) in Brisbane, plus a bunch of cash.
If he stayed in Auckland, he would still have that 3br house and no extra cash.
Yvil, you show your true colours by focusing on the one and only metric that matters to you: capital gains.
A house is a home, first and foremost. The foundation of a stable family life.


Bingo.. no mortgage! and I walk to work, where as in Auckland I had to sit in traffic gridlock for 30 mins!

Damnit mr Moa, you've told a good story right there. I wonder if I will look back and wonder if this was the comment that inspires me to also 'give up' on NZ

Moa - it's 90 minutes home for me for what is a 20 minute drive in light traffic. I'm a qualified professional. If I didn't have dodgy medical stuff that I can't get around then I would have been on a plane to Oz years ago.


We're thinking about joining you. Skilled migrants also. Being here is like being on a treadmill, constantly trying to move forward while getting no where. Nz is Hellbent on keeping the property party going at all costs. Probably seems like a utopia to all those unskilled migrants, but it's a stagnating and frustrating place for us.

Probably seems like a utopia to all those unskilled migrants

Not too late to reconsider. Expect the situation here to worsen as the worsening economic landscape in Asia forces millions to seek alternatives.
As usual, their brightest minds shall look to US, UK, Aus, Canada (Germany is also growing in popularity) while we get to scrape the bottom of the barrel.
We have little to offer in terms of career advancement and entrepreneurial opportunities. Our infrastructure is outdated and so are the industries it supports; basic resources are in short supply but the competition for them is intense.

Aussies WILL close the open movement arrangement if we continue to piss them off the way we do


I disagree. They will continue to take our well behaved educated youth (doctors, nurses, teachers, IT etc etc), and deport 2nd generation kiwi gang members/gang types who parents were to stupid to file an application for Aussie citizenship when it was all but free. The lucky country indeed.

But hay, lets continue to import more of the two most populous country's in the world.

So, to summarise, this is a thread complaining about the high level of net immigration to NZ and where the consensus solution is to emigrate to Australia.

This is comedy genius, brilliant.

No not quite, we have immigration of low skilled migrants to NZ who in general do not assimilate, while we lose high skilled NZers who we want to retain and keep sounds like a horror story.

Not sure that reconciles. If the arrivals are so low-skilled, and the NZer's leaving are so high-skilled, then how are the low-skilled arrivals competing for the housing that the leavers complain about?

Regardless, do you think Australians want Kiwi's heading over there clogging up roads, using medicare, pushing up house prices? There is probably a chat thread there where the gloomy are complaining about it relentlessly.

One only needs to look at the "dropping like a stone" interest rates to know the answer to your first question.

Australia builds houses, they spend on infrastructure, have a competitive building industry and have their equivalent of the RMA sorted out (mostly). That means they don't suffer from immigration the same way we do. Unfortunately there is a massive amount of racism there which makes things unstable. But kiwi's don't really suffer from it...

we all wanted those thousands of houses to be erected... they will not appear by magic.. we've got a 45 year high Consent rate and we dont have local resources, outside help is required..

Drive around auckland and its quite noticeable the volume of building activity happening..


So you think these are all builders coming in, not super skilled Chinese chefs and retail managers?

Thats not what i implied..

My point being, a large number of them would be tradies/builders, considering the huge volume of building activity happening..

Not having a go at you. Is there any numbers breakdown on the visas issued to tradies? I haven't seen any.

I think fritz had supplied one from last month..

Pragmatist broke down the numbers and if i recall right, a large chunk were in the building industry

A large chunk.. but of all the construction related trades (and a couple I'll admit were pretty loosely related) added up to a bit under 8000 construction related trades (over 14+ different immigration employment categories).

Add up " 2670 Retail supervisors & 1686 Retail Managers, and 1527 Cafe Managers, and 4127 Chefs.." and you get 10,010 over just 4 categories.. (about 2/3rds down the page)

I will be scared shit buying a house built by these unskilled migrants turned into builders...

And after yesterdays story about the missing/improperly installed reinforcing steel, concrete with voids etc in many buildings I sure as hell wouldn't buy anything over 2 stories high


@Mrs To The Point ............ dont forget the $2 shop owners getting in under the Business Category .

Well, yes. You can never have too many of them.

$2 shops will be gone once Daiso comes into NZ.. In Aust, you cannot find a $2 shop anywhere.. Daiso basically wiped them out with better pricing and quality goods.

Already here apparently.

Okay so DAISO is a $3 shop

My bad!

Yep, they are much better than your average cheap plastic crap $2 shop. One on queen st just down from the IMAX complex. Worth a visit if you are in the area.

Daiso is great, but there are still plenty of junk shops around too. I think people don't know about Daiso or don't realise they're higher quality than the crappy $2 shop stuff.

Because if there is something we really need it is more plastic cr.p

Eh, it's not all plastic crap, that's the point. It's basically an example of decent quality at a very cheap price through bulk manufacturing and supply chain efficiencies.

Example: I bought a stainless steel spatula at Stevens for $20 a while back. Broke after a couple of months. I bought the same at Daiso and it's been completely without issue for a couple of years. Daiso also has stoneware plates and cups made in Japan for $3 a piece. Some of the other knock-off so brands are not so good...e.g. Miniso (a knock-off from China) has a bit more stock that's pure crap, although some of their stuff's actually decent too.

Yeah...I know more than I should about these stores. I also don't like $2 shops at all.

I would buy from Daiso rather than any cheapie stores. At least the Daiso stuffs will last me much longer and therefore I ended up using less plastic for same time frame.

Been visiting Daiso at St Lukes and CBD, they have a good range of useful items at the right price. The fact that they can sell at that price with such a large inventory holding and still make a profit, speaks volumes...especially in this high cost retail environment in NZ. Our businesses don't think long term, for sure.

So cheap crap bulk-produced by Chinese workers is being replaced by merchandise at highly affordable prices carefully crafted by Japanese creators . Brilliant!

Toyota vs Cherry?

Daiso products are manufactured outside Japan under strict quality control. Furthermore, Daiso is a discounter in Japan. Outside Japan, it is marketed as a "lifestyle" store, particularly in Asia.

NZ cannot replicate Daiso. We don't have the economies of scale or same manufacturing expertise.

They have a mixture of manufacturing outside and inside Japan. Quite a few things in their Queen St store are made in Japan, though the majority is not.

There have been no major new housing estates opened under this Labour Government

Hobsonvillle was opened by John Key
Pokeno by Key
Millwater ditto

Labour ............. nothing , just a few bach's in Wanaka that the developer cant sell

Fair point. And the SHAs weren't perfect but they delivered housing, including a fair few affordable houses in places like Queenstown.
I am still wondering what happened to the big proposed housing development at Unitec. Like most (all) things Twyford made a song and dance about it, but for it all to vanish in thin air...

Particracy Rules: the triumph of clever politics over leadership

"The particracy has taken control, we live in a democracy in name only. We are run by a political elite whose myopia is reinforced by donors, big business and the sectarian interests who makes the most noise, with mainstream media complicit in the deceit." Been that way in NZ for years. It'l get ugly before it gets better. and the politicians keep wanting to extend the parliamentary term - further undermining democracy!


A disgrace. Again, policy promises count for nothing. There is no consensus for this level of immigration. None. The central reason the Coalition gained power is because of National’s failures in immigration and housing. Which means doing something about them. It means determined action on promised policies. A feeble, superficial, spineless administration will not be forgiven. Nor does it deserve to be. Instead of required delivery in this and other responsibilities, we have a political failure of staggering magnitude.


True, but Ms Ardern has such a lovely smile, isn't that enough to gain the votes?

Smile or no smile we have to get rid of this utterly hopeless Government as soon as possible

No it isn't she needs to start waving as well, so she can be the smiley wavy woman, just as Key was the smiley wavy guy, needing little else.

Lovely smile? NZ standards are as low as the OCR it seems

She's looking so gaunt.

Well put. See ya Labour. Zero credibility.

At least, national has been pretty consistent and honest about migrants being very important to NZ.

This govt sets the lowest bar of governing ever.

On this I agree. You may not agree with all or any of their policies, but at least the Nats are *fairly* consistent.

You mean 'unfairly' consistent, right ?

Aren't they doing enough bottom licking to the CCP?
As for migrants, most of us are absolutely against the high rate we are experiencing, one thing this govt as well as the last need to address, you cannot have infinite growth in a finite world

When NZ starts to truly understand and appreciate the contribution of CCP to the entire human race, it will start to truly better itself by forming some revolutionary parties with true leaders.


The Uighur people are very appreciative, thanks. As is Hong Kong.

Unfortunately Taiwan is beginning to doubt the sincerity of the CCP's One Country Two Systems...err...lies.

However, you may be right that nothing much will change significantly in New Zealand until people get angry enough to cause that change.

Don't forget the Tibetans..

I much, much prefer to think for myself, and decide for myself what I want to do or believe

Would that also include the HK "bodies smashed and bones ground to powder" that Xi Jinping has recently commented on? BBC Hong Kong protests: President Xi warns of 'bodies smashed'

I believe the original script for this narrative was the Wizard of Oz...

Wow, I always thought you were a Ccp member or a tool they employ to be a drone on foreign lands... You sir had truly shown your true colours. Nz got useless political parties all round, but to endorse Ccp as the world saviour is by far the worst. Did you forget about their cultural revolution or their great leap??? Maybe the recent events in Hk just shows you the lack of commitment they got regarding promises made. They were suppose to leave HK alone for 50 years!!!

Just wait for the bones to be crushed...


I think the increase in Kiwi's leaving is most interesting aspect of this.

Swap those skilled Kiwis out for even more unskilled foreigners, and we'll all pat ourselves on the back as our houses earn more than the average salary. And we'll wonder why NZ cities are stagnating, when our youngest and brightest are fleeing.


It's almost like they campaigned on wishing immigration numbers would fall.


Yeah, they need to wish harder. It's not coming true.

"Sit back and do nothing while the country becomes unliveable for its own people who then flee for greener pastures" - that strategy seems to be working towards lowering "net" migration.

@Nzdan ........... they never expected to be in Government , so they promised anything that popped into their pea-sized brains ...........

would love to see the stats on born kiwis leaving NZ against new kiwis
I would be guessing but I suspect some of those leaving have arrived here found the grass is not greener and have headed off to try somewhere else
so would love to know how big the churn is

Meh. low unemployment at the moment. House build numbers high enough to cover pop increase. Don't have a problem with this, other than Coalition not getting any transport infrastructure built due to Green stonewalling.


Ms Ardern, the election promise was 100'000 affordable houses and less immigration, not an extra 100'000 immigrants and less houses


... just be grateful that they didn't get their wires crossed and cut back hard on pine tree plantings , and begin work on bringing in an extra billion migrants in 10 years ..

Some weeks ago I heard through one of the media that, with Australia fast becoming uninhabitable, their government has offered NZ 150 billion to take 20% of their population. I'm not joking. But it could have been a joke by the media.

Soon, NZ may also offer huge cash incentive for people to get out of the country. Remember the 5k or so deal for people to relocate from Auckland ?

@GBH , dont talk too soon , it could still happen

ha ha spot on

That was a pretty good one liner, Yvil.

Thanks RS


NZF's election promise of 10,000 per year. History shows that it was nothing but a blatant porky pie to secure the baubles of office. And then there's stuff like this guy

But lets just keep bringing them in, tax payer can continue to pick up the tab.

Nothing like some angry words in the comments section of a website or a peaceful protest to encourage Politician's to act on their promises. No real world consequences.

Damn right. Lets do this!


'Let's do this'. The most misleading election slogan ever!!!! Money back, please.

"The year of delivery" must come a close second

You're on a roll there Yvil, that is two posts today worth a thumbs up.

I have given him three. Credit where credit is due.

Thanks, sarcasm is an easy way to get thumbs up and I have given in to the temptation today but I don't usually like to indulge in sarcasm.

We're all suffering from Oh Dearism.


Must be the highest rate of immigration in the OECD? Makes me feel very unwelcoming.


The immigrant:birth ratio at roughly 1:1. Has any other peacetime country tried this social experiment?

Simon, come up with a sensible (tough but not extreme) immigration policy, and you will win in a landslide. The wind is blowing in the same direction everywhere in the west. NZ is no different.


Simon? You reckon he's gonna be the face of National for the next election? That's a guaranteed loss. Unless Labour manages to fuck up even more... which is not that unlikely actually.

I find it odd how the left is convinced that National cannot win with Simon Bridges at the helm. If I recall, the odious Andrew Little caused a direct and precipitous drop in Labour's polling. No such thing has happened with Simon.

There will be no coup attempt with National polling at 47%. Sorry to burst your bubble.

I think Luxton is on his way to National. If he becomes the leader, National could govern alone, we vote for people more than policies (it's not right but it's true) just look at how Ardern changed Labours fortunes from Little, with no new policies

Luxon isn't going to become leader within a year of joining with the party polling at 47%. Again this is a fantasy.

I agree we vote for personality not politics. Simon Bridges however may not be eminently likable, but Jacinda Ardern is now eminently UNLIKABLE to a large portion of the voting populace. That will weigh against Labour more than Simon's likability issue. Besides, the polls don't lie. Simon isn't unlikable enough to scare the voter away, unlike Little and Cunliffe.

Wait and see what happens if Luxon starts appearing in the Preferred PM polls and eclipses Bridges in very short order.



Simon and Luxon are Key pawns to continue the Business Interests. Immigration is the life blood for them to make money. Not likely to change.

Yes, the current cratering business confidence we have now from a Government that can't even reward its own union paymasters is a far superior situation, right?

It's not far superior. But it's not as bad for young Kiwis as it was under National.

Where is Winston's famous election promise about the PAUSE BUTTON ?

Why does someone not ask the fool the question ?

They think they will be called racist.

Winston calling someone racist ? Think of pots and kettles on that issue


National thrives on immigration. Luxon is sure to follow Key's lead as Botany properties need to go up in value, along with other East Auckland suburbs.
Labour won't do anything to reduce immigration as they are afraid to bite the bullet.
NZ First is a sham party, enjoying the flood of money coming its way through government policies, which it is hoping will get it votes in the next election, to preserve its position as a possible Kingmaker.
Greens, well, they are crying blues and getting beaten black on their climate change warnings. The students here are not swayed by them, yet.
ACT, the single consituency party, happy with the TV reality shows.

May be we should hope for our own Trump to show up to infuse a dose of Nationalism to inspire MAGA (Make Aotearoa Great Again)

The other thing Nats are likely to do is allow foreigners once again to have carte blanche in the housing market, and, unless I miss my mark, close the loophole that allowed some control of it.
Trump?? Are you mad?

C'mon we cant expect immigrants to come here and live under our bridges for shelter , can we ?

PocketAces was referring to foreign buyers, not residents.

Thank you


We have sold the future homes of our our children from out under their feet. Many are feeling helpless within their own country, forced to rent from foreign landlords with so sign of any change. This is the stuff that breeds National Front types politics.

Wakey wakey are overseeing a march into conflict among generations and cultures.

@rastus .............. so who was going to be the landlord ?

Most Kiwi renters cant afford a home because they are too indebted to raise a mortgage and the Govt is not able to house veryone

...who were the landlords when you were young. If you aren't..then say @ 1980's?

This situation has developed because we opened the doors to foreign ownership, people and had bias in the tax system.

No, its the deposit thats the hurdle now that average prices are so high! So in a low interest environment with record house prices, saving deposits to keep pace with house inflation is not realistic. House inflation is directly related to migrant disruption, meaning multi-generational investment culture, spare funds, multiple house ownership as income substitute and all this happening in a very condensed time frame. Young people right now are giving up on house ownership as a prospect.
This will have massive implications with sense of place, and connection to NZ etc. I think you can expect many more young NZ'ers to leave next 5 to 10 years!

Why do you think the Government introduced the gun buyback scheme?

NZ'ers leaving because no income growth prospects, so cant catch up now, if you did not have a house when Key promoted the immigration (foreign money) house sale of NZ. Govt leaves immigration growth because NZ cant withstand the economic correction from reduction in migrant funds. Example, RBNZ signals OCR could go to Zero, but other than reduce mortgage repayments (which will ultimately result in more debt for sure) this has had no impact on productivity or incomes. Holding house prices and paying down debt are the most important metrics to NZ govt.

If people believe that leaving NZ and going to Australia is going to be better, then book your tickets and order the container.
Australia is no better than NZ unless you are on very big money working.
Yes they tend to have better weather but with that comes problems.
If you think that the Ozzie government are going to look after you, then think again.
It isn’t much cheaper living in Oz compared to most places in NZ and they have more taxes than NZ does.
Next year this COL will be gone anyway.

You would know The Boy. You once lived there and obviously failed and came back.

Gordon, didn’t fail at all!
Enjoyed it as I wasn’t working over there but had investments here.
Wife wanted to come back to look after her parents, end of storey Mr Knowall!

“Know-all” actually.

by THE MAN 2 | 19th Dec 17, 6:52pm
Fair enough, BLACK TUESDAY!
If you are happy with your money invested in something that you personally have no control over then that is great.
We had several shares wiped off the board so personally won’t do it again.

Personally have far more confidence in property as was singed in 1987, and it will happen again, don’t know when but there will be a major correction downwards.

sorry but I have a lot of friends and family that have moved their (not Sydney) and they have now been able to buy houses that they had no chance to do in NZ, on average wages.
you are right in terms of handouts from the government and if they need serious medical they have to come home but we can blame HC for that

If you have good qualifications and you know how to work hard you can do very well in Australia.

Clearly Gordon, you haven’t got either.

I had an actual profession The Boy and I worked hard and retired at 58. Unlike you I had no need to go to Australia. Now enjoying my variety of investments which luckily do not include roughies in poor old Christchurch.

by THE MAN 2 | 19th Dec 17, 6:52pm
Fair enough, BLACK TUESDAY!
If you are happy with your money invested in something that you personally have no control over then that is great.
We had several shares wiped off the board so personally won’t do it again.

Personally have far more confidence in property as was singed in 1987, and it will happen again, don’t know when but there will be a major correction downwards.

Sharetrader, you can buy houses anywhere in NZ no problem.
We find it a lot easier buying them in ChCh than OZ and they have the horrific capital gains tax and various other horrible taxes!
If you want something bad enough, you can generally do it.

You don’t need to worry about capital gains tax in poor old Christchurch. Look at the 5 year return in today’s REINZ report.

Gordon, we don’t sell generally, but yes we would pay plenty if we sold any inside the Brightline on purchase price to sale price.
Personally don’t take much notice of averages or medians as that doesn’t affect what someone’s house or property is worth.
They are all individual and so many things come into what something is worth.
Anyway, no point discussing with you as you only come on for a bit of trolling.
Are you up for the challenge GORDON?..

As the REINZ confirmed today you have really let your family down The Boy. If you took inflation into account the last five years have given you zilch capital gain. Dunedin and the Lakes would have been a better bet but that would have taken courage, the ability to borrow for Lake property and being able to get out of your comfort zone. The Boy suits you better as anyone can buy cheap roughies in Christchurch.

Of course Gordon.
You are right.
The nurse is calling you, tea time

Thanks The Boy. I am glad you are seeing sense. The REINZ statistics prove you caught the wrong bus. It must be sickening to see the property all around you going gangbusters and your portfolio goes backwards through inflation.

The Man, There are always pessimists who think they know everything when in actual fact as you know they dont see the whole picture. Dont worry about Gordon, he feels inadequate. Retired Poppy is another and where is he now

Housework’s, I don’t worry about Gordon, he only comes on with his normal BS about “The Boy” and Christchurch.
He is a lonely man who really knows nothing about investment apart from TDS.
I hope he gets something beneficial from his comments and if I can help him with his day, then I have achieved something.
I note he thinks he is clever but you have to note that he has never once agreed to my challenge to him.
Reason being is that Gordon hasn’t got the $50k to pay me when he loses, or Gordon do you want to meet the challenge.
Keep up the good work Housework’s.

'he only comes on with his normal BS about “The Boy” and Christchurch.'
Its pretty funny his comments sometimes, like a terrier ankle biter.

Australia's GDP per capita is about 25% higher than New Zealand's so it's not hard to imagine that there's a good chance of doing better financially there. Worked for me and has worked for many others but of course there are no guarantees.

TM2 is at least partially right about the Aussie government though, e.g. there are a few traps related to the Special Category Visa. All documented online if one cares to look. Like most things it helps to do your homework and go into it with your eyes open.

Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth are at least as nice as Auckland and cost of living much lower (housing, fuel, groceries and other things)

Why aren t you living there Fritz, if it is much better living there?
People can do well on both sides of the Tasman, however far easier for us to make money in NZ than oZ without doubt.

I did. But there is a thing called 'family care and obligation' that comes above oneself sometimes.
ie. sick parent.
And my kids are too settled now to return.
Btw I didn't say it's much better living there. I said it's a lot more affordable (outside Sydney). Which definitely makes it better in some respect.

Similar to ourselves Fritz.
Don’t agree that Oz is more affordable to live in than NZ in general.
Auckland is expensive to live, but too many on here think that NZ is Auckland.

Given the huge proportion of migrants Auckland mops up, it is essentially NZ as far as this debate goes. And there are plenty of Aucklanders born here who face the realistic prospect of not being able to live in the city they were born in.

If you look at the chart back from the oldest date, immigration is still a long way down on what was occurring when National was in power

True but still too high

They changed the way it was measured last year.
The previous system, using departure cards, recorded significantly higher migration numbers.

On this basis the latest figure may well be at a similar level to where it was in the peak, if not higher.

Didnt they go back and recalculate the migration numbers?

Hence, everyone was initially startled when stated that NZ had a lower population than initially thought

so a 16% drop is "a long way down" to you? (63k=>53k)


When will this madness stop?!


a) an unsustainable immigration rate
b) an inelastic RMA
c) a tax system favouring the most unproductive use of capital bidding up land prices
d) absolute carbon targets (not per capita whilst running one of the highest immigration rates per capita in the world)
e) a government incapable of addressing the above

Its no wonder NZ continues to slide in gdp/capita rankings vs other countries

Some credit. Foreign buyer ban, ring fencing tax losses, rental standards, visitor level to fund Doc, extra Police, looking at cannabis reform. There's probably others I've missed.

Biggest fail immigration - which of course is a driver of house prices and manner of the many other issues that it brings (healthcare, education, roading, demands on super, benefits etc).

Yep. They have done some good stuff on the demand side of housing although... no CGT. Which is why I grade them C- on housing. But almost nothing on supply despite all the BS from Big Phil.
An E on.migration.

So the credit is around trying to screw property investors in NZ that are providing the accommodation for people who need or want to rent.
Yeah what a success, and yet there are more people in motels and garages than ever?
Looking at Cannabis reform! Yeah that is a big plus for the country isn’t it?
They are a failed government without doubt.

"China remained the biggest source of migrants in the 12 months to August with a net gain of 10,406 from that country, and another 699 from Hong Kong, followed by South Africa 9438, India 8345, the Philippines 7055 and Australia 4989."

The fabric of New Zealand continues to change.

it is getting interesting listening to all the accents in the office now, its nice to hear another kiwi one once in a while.
i remember when it was the strange accent stood out as the odd one out not the local one
makes shared lunches tasty though

Poll on TV last night, the COL is gone burger the next election and that is with Simon Bridges on only 9% as preferred prime minister, just imagine if National got someone nearly everyone actually liked ! Just goes to show you when you think things couldn't get any worse than National, along comes the COL.

So true!!!!
And to think some people think we are so well served by our politicians. Extremely low bar set by Trump, Boris.

This time I am going to give my vote to Labor JA.

Labour are gone at the next election. Conditions are ripening for a proper hard right nationalist party.

Yes, and that's the risk here - any party that campaigns on crime & immigration is sure to romp in, but with that comes their other less-publicized policies that you may regret voting for.

Not sticking up for current shambles but be careful what you wish for.

Yet another immigration article in the property section.

Luxon can't be PM unless he's asked to candidate first, which he hasn't been because none of the party regulars actually know him...on the rest... generally kiwis only vote for labour whenthings get unbearably rough then wonder why inside a term how things aren't suddenly reversed and great for everyone, as if they would be? Then they realise there isn't any sort of a real alternative despite the promises so they bugger off to Aussie and leave their spot in the cue to some third worlder...

Ok glass half full thought. Someone mentioned the other day that the benefit of all this immigration is that when the economy goes into recession, there will be damage limitation to kiwis.That's a good point. A lot of people on visas will be going home.
Also what happens when Sky convention centre, Commercial Bay and CRL wrap up? Seems a lack of big building projects following up, and the tap of big motorway projects has been turned off. Might be quite a few people returning to home countries.our migration figures might look very different this time next year.

I think the Coalition definitely wanted to reduce immigration, because the benefits of doing so, unless we make massive investments in infrastructure*, are fairly straightforward. Then someone realised (or knew already...) GDP would plummet. Given how keen they are to appear to be prudent, actual reductions are highly unlikely.

*even then, to avoid demand spikes, it would have to be done fairly slowly.

When I was in practice I had contact with clients who had immigrated to New Zealand, become citizens here and then immigrated to Australia. I don't recall anyone doing the opposite. They were from the UK, India and China. Getting citizenship here was the their initial goal but their ultimate goal was to go and live in Australia where they knew they would get paid better, get better housing for their bucks, better weather of course and some of the costs in Australia are definitely cheaper than here. I don't know how many did that but if I am just one of the many in this country who dealt with such immigrants then there must have been a lot of them. It is sad really but when specialist doctors earn 50% more in Australia and they get amazing super contributions on top then who could blame them to use us to get there. We need to grow our wealth through exports that have value added to them.

For every Kiwi that leaves, they are being replaced with 4 Foreigners, mostly from the 3rd world. This is a massive concern. I will vote for anyone that puts a stop to this.

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