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LINZ data for June quarter shows 3% of buyers say they are foreign tax residents, but data doesn't include overseas students or tempory work visas, or trusts and corporates; LINZ says more reliable data due in a year

Property
LINZ data for June quarter shows 3% of buyers say they are foreign tax residents, but data doesn't include overseas students or tempory work visas, or trusts and corporates; LINZ says more reliable data due in a year
1st Aug 16, 2:21pm by Bernard Hickey

By Bernard Hickey

Land Information New Zealand (LINZ) has released its second set of data on the tax residency status of property buyers, but has again cautioned that the data cannot be relied on for another 12 months because of flaws in questions about whether buyers are overseas students or on temporary work visas or not.

LINZ began collecting the data from October 1 when the Government's new requirement kicked in for property buyers to declare if the property was their main home and/or they were foreign residents for tax purposes. Initially touted by the Government as a way to understand the extent of foreign buying, the first set of data for the March quarter was released on May 10, but was immediately challenged. Even LINZ said it considered not releasing the data because of its flaws. See our article from May 10.

The survey for the three months to the end of June included the same flawed question attempting to understand the residency status of buyers by asking whether they were on student and temporary work visas. LINZ said it hoped to have fixed the flawed questionaire and have more robust results within a year.

The June quarter survey found there were 57,678 property transfers in the three months to June 30, including 1,749 or 3% who declared an overseas tax residency. Of those, 555 were from China, 393 were from Australia and 138 were from Britain. There were 900 of those transfers in Auckland where at least one of the buyers declared an overseas tax residency, including 495 from China and 69 from Singapore.

The 3% figure is little different to that found in the March quarter, which was skewed by many property transactions having started before the October 1 deadline for the new information disclosure requirement.

The survey found that 8,751 of the buyers or 15% of the total appeared to say they were tax residents, but that they only had temporary work or student visas, rather than having permanent residency. However LINZ said they had found some permanent residents had also answered the question, meaning the 15% portion may be overstated. LINZ has previously said it planned to redesign the survey to ensure permanent residents did not answer the question.

A new question was also added to the June survey that allowed respondents to say if they were a corporate, rather than an individual. The survey found 7,521 property buyers or 13% of the total answered they were corporates.

Given the answers for students and corporates, the percentage of buyers who may be ultimately foreign residents ranges between 3% and 31%.

LINZ Minister Louise Upston also pointed out the data was not a register of foreign ownership.

“This data is not a register of foreign ownership – it is collected as a result of government property tax measures in Budget 2015. However, over time it will give us some useful information on the property market," Upston said.

(Updated with Minister's commnet)

Here is a summary of tax residency data released by LINZ on the analysis of quarterly New Zealand property transactions.

  Q4 - 2015 Q1 - 2016 Q2 - 2016
Tax residence Buyers Sellers Buyers Sellers Buyers Sellers
             
Australia 285 30 312 441 393 675
China 36 90 321 81 555 162
Hong Kong ... 12 33 ... 54 ...
Singapore 24 ... 36 39 63 57
UK 45 ... 99 93 138 126
USA 36 ... 51 81 75 78
all others 81 18 144 138 264 228
Mixed 123 33 162 189 207 234
             
New Zealand 52,056 52,503 43,986 44,082 55,929 56,118
             
Total transactions 52,686 45,144 57,678

Tax residency is not the same as nationality. You can live in New Zealand and still have tax residency in another country. Alternatively, you could be an overseas citizen and have only New Zealand tax residency.

We welcome your comments below. If you are not already registered, please register to comment

Remember we welcome robust, respectful and insightful debate. We don't welcome abusive or defamatory comments and will de-register those repeatedly making such comments. Our current comment policy is here.

183 Comments

by  Chris-M  |  1st Aug 16, 7:37pm 1470037045

Yeah right?

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by  AMAM  |  1st Aug 16, 6:46pm 1470033967

Liars said that NZ reputationnis not harmed by panama papers than what is this

http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/eu-considers-blacklisting-nz-over-tax…

Can lie on anything and everything. No one trust national so how can one trust and expect agency under government to come out with correct data.

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by  Kakapo  |  1st Aug 16, 7:12pm 1470035572

That's a warning shot across the bows if ever I saw one.

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by  Buzz111  |  1st Aug 16, 7:21pm 1470036072

Well done J KEY. After working in this industry for years you
> ignor IRD advice on foreign trusts.
> promote the idea that NZ should be the Swttzerland of the South Pacific,
> claim NZ Isnt a tax haven one week,
> the next week we find your personal advisor is up to his neck in foreign trusts and featuring on the Panama papers
> say maybe we are after enormous amounts of con and bs.
> the week following appoint a consultant to look at it.
> find out we are
> get blacklisted by our third largest trade partner.

Clearly honesty is not in your mandate, encouraging shady business ethics Is a National priority.

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by  Chris-M  |  1st Aug 16, 9:56pm 1470045412

As I have been saying for quite a while now, he is our version of Silvio Berlusconi. Berlusconi went for 20 years enjoying huge public popularity and no matter what he did nothing could shake that. Lets hope Key doesn't last that long or he has enough sense to get out while he is ahead.

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by  Independent_Observer  |  1st Aug 16, 10:24pm 1470047046

I think he's a lot like Putin. Look at his eyes in still photos when he's debating or when he's caught off guard - the smiling assassin facade that people are tricked into trusting (the classic he uses in selfies with supporters etc) is replaced by the obsessed/corrupt/denial which I think might be the true him.

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by  keywest  |  2nd Aug 16, 9:09am 1470085746

Mate, the place for crazy talk you should save for whaleoil or some other political blog, Putin and key are not even in the same galaxy

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by  NorthernLights  |  4th Aug 16, 6:17am 1470248279

Key is more US than RU
More Globalist agenda than conquer your neighbors with military force
Key is as far away from Putin as Trump is from sanity
Keys a simply fabulous guy, a true friend to many he doesnt have to be friendly with
He deserves another full term in office x 2 then he could perhaps run NZ from his home in Hawaii
Keep those migrants coming. Im sure next year there will be a record 80,000
Haere mai

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by  Eco Bird  |  1st Aug 16, 9:16pm 1470043014

Am I the only one who is appalled by the lack of professionalism of LINZ regarding this matter??, can't they get a proper questionnaire put together that would produce a meaning full data at the end of a Quarter? how tough is that? why do we need to wait for another year to know what is happening?.
I am sorry, but i'm really disappointed to see how backward some departments are !!
this LINZ fiasco must stop now

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by  Northland Hippy  |  2nd Aug 16, 7:16am 1470078973

agreed EcoBird, its just more smoke and mirrors and BS.

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by  tired_immigrant  |  1st Aug 16, 2:53pm 1470019991

Still waiting for the conspiracy theorists to jump in about foreign ownership, about those zillions of Chinese buyers they see at auctions or open houses and how these people are most definitely driving up prices (but property investors who are non-Chinese do not)...

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by  Value Added  |  1st Aug 16, 2:59pm 1470020398

You buy a house - you get residency. They're not classified as "foreign owners" so it's a huge scam.

On top of that, there's a glaring statement in there that shows you probably didn't even read the article:

"The survey found that 8,751 of the buyers or 15% of the total appeared to say they were tax residents, but that they only had temporary work or student visas, rather than having permanent residency."

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by  WellGeared  |  1st Aug 16, 3:13pm 1470021224

Its not ethical to cherry pick the sentences out of its entire context. Did you read the very next sentences to the one you quoted? It says
"However LINZ said they had found some permanent residents had also answered the question, meaning the 15% portion may be overstated. LINZ has previously said it planned to redesign the survey to ensure permanent residents did not answer the question."
Hence your 15% of student and temporary visa holders can be anything from 0% to 15%.

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by  Value Added  |  1st Aug 16, 3:58pm 1470023883

Of course I read it. It says "some" (which means it couldn't be 0%) and it also says they were residents - to which I refer to my earlier statement about spending $1.5m on a house and getting residency.

Accusing me of being unethical because I didn't quote half the article? It was all there real estate guy.

I leave you to shout at your computer, I'm out.

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by  tired_immigrant  |  1st Aug 16, 4:04pm 1470024280

Of course I read it. It says "some" (which means it couldn't be 0%) and it also says they were residents - to which I refer to my earlier statement about spending $1.5m on a house and getting residency. --> sighs. $1.5 million on a house (I assume you mean existing houses and not new builds) to get residency? Really? Don't let facts get into your head. See my reply to your other comment.

Stop getting it so badly wrong, it's embarrassing (for you and for me to read). Maybe that's why New Zealand needs immigration (or at least the talented ones).

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by  WellGeared  |  1st Aug 16, 4:17pm 1470025079

You are trying to paint the permanent residents in that 15% group with "foreigner" brush. As far as I know the biggest permanent resident categories are skilled migrant category and family category. They get residency because of their highly sought after skills or family ties. It will show that your numbers still do not add up.
But you are making an interesting point that a foreigner can buy a $1.5m property and get residency. That's something I am very interested in. I would really like to see some figures of such residency grants. If it is true and happening it will a shame for the government (National or Labour) who created such a policy. We need to have good discussion about that topic.

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by  tired_immigrant  |  1st Aug 16, 4:24pm 1470025456

But you are making an interesting point that a foreigner can buy a $1.5m property and get residency. That's something I am very interested in. I would really like to see some figures of such residency grants. If it is true and happening it will a shame for the government (National or Labour) who created such a policy. We need to have good discussion about that topic. --> this policy (i.e. buying 1.5 million property and get residency) does NOT exist. I have provided the link above. It's a shame that posters (not you) do not read carefully.

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by  Value Added  |  1st Aug 16, 4:43pm 1470026635

" this policy (i.e. buying 1.5 million property and get residency) does NOT exist"

Ok dude, sorry but it's true - from NZ Government's immigration website (in the link provided earlier):

Residential property development

We'll consider a residential property development is an acceptable investment if it meets all of the following criteria:

it's a new development, and not a renovation or extension to an existing residential property
the development has the necessary approvals and consents
the purpose of the development is to make a commercial return on the open market - it must not be for you, your family or friends to live in.
You can't include the costs of any regulatory approvals or consents in your investment funds.

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by  tired_immigrant  |  1st Aug 16, 4:49pm 1470026989

What is true again? That foreigners can invest in property development (i.e. build new houses that they cannot reside in)? Was that what you meant EXACTLY? I doubt you mean investing in property development as "buying a 1.5 million property and getting residency" because frankly that's just an extreme stretch of the English language. If you somehow mean that and lump them all together, perhaps some sophistication in thinking is required.

If foreigners cannot invest in property development, who else is building your many houses required in the proposed Unitary Plan? Who forks out the capital? Hardworking kiwis?

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by  NorthernLights  |  4th Aug 16, 6:22am 1470248556

Or you can just become Maurice Williamsons neighbor & he will even look after your house while you fly back to China Korea Russia where ever no worries
Haere mai

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by  TommyYank-old  |  1st Aug 16, 5:57pm 1470031073

What I read into is that 8750 respondents need to be chased up by LINZ (upon orders from the Government) to compare those names to the Permanent Residency records. Now really how hard would that be? And instead we are told that the flawed questionnaire (which hasn't been fixed in 3 months so far) will be redesigned so that we will have more relevant and accurate information in 12 MONTHS-maybe! What's pathetic is that they the Government can away with this. I suspect that if Labour makes a meal of this and the heat gets turned up. But why can't the journalists challenge them to do a "recount" of the 8750 to get to the bottom of it?

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by  Buzz111  |  1st Aug 16, 7:27pm 1470036421

The guy who wrote has a pHd what could be wrong. Frankly you could put this to any call centre and they would fix this incompetence in a couple of weeks. Surprised nick smith isn't hitting the desk on this, not.

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by  tired_immigrant  |  1st Aug 16, 3:33pm 1470022418

Please tell me which immigration category provides that "you buy a house, you get residency"? Provide links please. You may be surprised at what you cannot find.

"The survey found that 8,751 of the buyers or 15% of the total appeared to say they were tax residents, but that they only had temporary work or student visas, rather than having permanent residency." --> uh huh, but read the comment below. Also, assuming you are correct, that's 18% in total. Hardly the 39% that you guys love to shout about. On a slightly separate note, I may add that holders of temporary work visas can be tax residents (and usually they are because they work here and hence pay tax here).

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by  Value Added  |  1st Aug 16, 3:51pm 1470023464

what are you talking 39%? I've said nothing of the sort. Are you trying to lump everyone that proves you wrong into the same group?

Here you go, do some reading (though I doubt you'll learn much judging by your obvious bias):

https://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/move-to-nz/new-zealand-visa/visas-to-…

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by  tired_immigrant  |  1st Aug 16, 4:00pm 1470024052

You realise my comment is not just directed at you? My greater point was made though (about the percentage).

No, here do more reading: https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/apply-for-a-visa/abou…

Read about what constitutes acceptable investments. I doubt you read much or know much, judging by your insults.

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by  Value Added  |  1st Aug 16, 4:36pm 1470026160

It says it right there in the link you provided as an acceptable investment:

- residential property development

That's why $1.5 million houses are built in areas like Long Bay - for foreign investors who will also be given residency. What a huge scam! My mate is a landscaper who works on these houses and they have to make Chinese gardens for them! Then once they have their residency they can start buying up the existing houses that young working families would otherwise buy so they create a property portfolio.

Hardworking kiwis are being sold up the river by their greedy, sell-out National voting countrymen. And you support it!

It's an absolute disgrace and I question why anybody would defend it - let alone as poorly as you have.

It's obvious you're making money and you couldn't care less about hard-working kiwis.

I'm out.

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by  tired_immigrant  |  1st Aug 16, 4:56pm 1470027372

Sighs, you are really blind:

I quote directly:
"Residential property development

We'll consider a residential property development is an acceptable investment if it meets all of the following criteria:

it's a new development, and not a renovation or extension to an existing residential property
the development has the necessary approvals and consents
the purpose of the development is to make a commercial return on the open market - it must not be for you, your family or friends to live in.
You can't include the costs of any regulatory approvals or consents in your investment funds."

Keep going, don't be discouraged. Find me something that supports your thesis. If I were hazarding a guess, I would say you are downright dishonest by completely ignoring what I just quoted when it's literally below that section about what constitutes "acceptable investments".

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by  HeavyG  |  1st Aug 16, 6:28pm 1470032925

Ignore these European NZers. The long for the lost days of stealing Maori land while maintaining ties with Mother England. As a Maori I have no problem with Chinese coming to NZ and paying top dollar for property. Better a cashed up buyer than a thief. These so called European "kiwis" just don't like competition.

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by  PocketAces  |  1st Aug 16, 6:36pm 1470033393

Guess what demographic is getting the shortest end of the stick in all of this

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by  Independent_Observer  |  1st Aug 16, 6:54pm 1470034496

We're walking a pretty fine line here team! As a younger generation kiwi I'm certainly taking a shafting from all this as far as my ability goes to buy a 'home' - but the last thing I want to see is NZ becoming a divided society over this because of the colour of people's skin.

We can't change the past - we can certainly learn from it though and make better decisions for the here and now that will influence the future.

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by  rastus1  |  1st Aug 16, 6:55pm 1470034521

Your current Europeans did their best to right the wrongs of forefathers they never even new. Good luck with the new master race having any concern at all. The silence of Maori to the new invasion is a mystery to me..history repeats?

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by  simbit  |  2nd Aug 16, 6:38am 1470076734

I'll acknowledge Pakeha have done more than most colonial settlers to 'right the wrongs' but they generally remain committed to a racist marginalisation of Maori, who are far from silent on this or any other issue afflicting their country.

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by  HeavyG  |  2nd Aug 16, 7:42am 1470080548

Did their best?... Where are you getting this from?... Compensation for stolen land has been minuscule and negotiated with 1 or 2 un-elected so called iwi representatives. The same tactics as were used in the 1800s to liquor up the local drunk and then claim he signed away all the iwi's land.

The new invasion (your obviously referring to Chinese immigrants) is paying top dollar and no one's land is being stolen. What's the problem?.... Those who believe they are the master race (i.e. you European NZers) cannot compete economically so are pulling the old race based politics out. Just like your forefathers who didn't let Chinese immigrants to NZ bring their wives so they couldn't breed. How some of you must long for the good old days.

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by  Buzz111  |  2nd Aug 16, 3:47am 1470066450

This data released is nonsense and is on a par with using buyers surnames as indicative. Better to use the estimates from the banks.

The incompetence of LINZ is flabbergasting, it reaks of political interference and corruption. We pay the CEO over $350,000 per annum , for what?

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by  keyo_  |  1st Aug 16, 3:02pm 1470020535

LINZ may as well weigh the results instead of counting them if the questions are going to be deliberately misleading.

Good on Interest for showing the buy vs seller statistics though, which clearly show one Nationality is accumulating. It's not buying that matters so much as the net accumulation.

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by  sadr001  |  1st Aug 16, 3:14pm 1470021279

Sure the British may be the only group singled out that has purchased more than they sold in the last 3 periods shown in the table above, but I don't think that people are complaining about British buyers. Also if you subtract overseas sellers from overseas buyers then the net % of properties that change from local to foreign hands drops to something minuscule!

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by  tired_immigrant  |  1st Aug 16, 3:35pm 1470022554

Wow, how can you say this??? It must be the Chinese (despite what the statistics say)!!! British buyers look white, are white (British non-whites are excluded and should be considered as "Chinese" or "Asian") and hence their purchasing is fine and somehow does NOT drive up prices.

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by  keyo_  |  1st Aug 16, 3:56pm 1470023811

Wasn't there some kind of rule around Q4 2015 requiring an NZ Bank Account + IRD number? That would explain why China is lower in 2015.

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by  Zak  |  1st Aug 16, 3:01pm 1470020496

"Over time it will give us useful information" How much time . After the first set of data they said they would have a better indication of the figures ,now its a year. How hard is it to ask the right questions??? The elephant in the room is " Given the answers for students and corporates, the percentage of buyers who may be ultimately foreign residents ranges between 3% and 31%. Of course ,these foreign buyers don't want NZers to know how many there is. How about showing us what questions they ask?

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by  tired_immigrant  |  1st Aug 16, 4:11pm 1470024670

Why would foreign buyers care about whether they let NZers know they are buying or not? You assume too much. The questions are available on IRD's website I believe. They are not some secretive document and there really isn't some greater conspiracy between the foreign buyers to keep such information away from NZers.

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by  Northland Hippy  |  2nd Aug 16, 7:36am 1470080169

The conspiracy is by our government.

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by  fat pat  |  2nd Aug 16, 8:10am 1470082236

Tired Immigrant - if that's what you really are. It appears to me that 9/10 or more of the houses in my area of Auckland are being sold to Chinese. I only know because I attend the auctions, and that's why this BS survey is so irritating. It does matter who buys the houses! I have friends who have just had a baby and they're now paying $850 p/w in rent a house. They couldn't afford to buy because of all the foreign money flowing in to Auckland. What does the future hold for them now? How will towing the National party line help them in the future?

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by  tired_immigrant  |  2nd Aug 16, 8:50am 1470084607

Tired Immigrant - if that's what you really are. It appears to me that 9/10 or more of the houses in my area of Auckland are being sold to Chinese. --> uh huh and? Can you differentiate between a Chinese that is "resident" here (i.e. a NZ citizen or PR) (but I recognise that some here will consider all Chinese as non-kiwi) and a Chinese who flew in just to buy properties (I love anecdotes) just by looking at them? The short answer is that you probably cannot. If so, then why single out the Chinese in particular? If your beef is with ALL investors, then it so happens that the Chinese may constitute the more obvious racial group of property investors. Are you saying that the Chinese cannot invest?

Foreign money is flowing everywhere around the world. This is the age of globalism and globalisation (like it or not). The alternative is to be a backwater or worse a country where nobody wants to invest (like Syria). Take your pick. We can have a perfectly rational discussion about how to deal with this foreign money without singling out any particular racial group. Isn't this what makes New Zealand unique and attractive?

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by  fat pat  |  2nd Aug 16, 9:23am 1470086587

Rubbish – Australia, Canada, Taiwan and others have placed restrictions and they’re doing okay. You want to know how to make a third world country. 1) Make the middle class poor 2) Flood the country with 3rd world low paid immigrants. Exactly what the National party is doing. I really hope John Key and his Plutocrat cronies get destroyed at the next election, for the sake of all New Zealanders.

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by  fat pat  |  2nd Aug 16, 9:39am 1470087574

Oh and by the way, the grass needs cutting again at 102 Kohimarama Road. I complained last year that the Cow Parsley was knee high. The house was sold by Barfoot "again" last year and its still derelict. I suppose you're going to try to tell me that a Chinese investor doesn't own that one.

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by  tired_immigrant  |  2nd Aug 16, 11:13am 1470093236

Yes of course not, that one house is representative of everything in New Zealand. Thanks for the wonderfully brilliant example.

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by  tired_immigrant  |  2nd Aug 16, 11:15am 1470093330

You will realise they place restrictions on "foreign buyers" (defined differently in each country). Was that what you were arguing for? I hardly think so. You just (accidentally?) singled out the Chinese.

Yea, uhm okay. That's a really different point.

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by  fat pat  |  2nd Aug 16, 4:44pm 1470113070

Yes I deliberately singled out the Chinese because of the capital flight is coming from that country. The Chinese are creating huge real estate asset bubbles all over the world. According to Jim Rickards (the Death of Money) whats going on in China is the "greatest episode of capital flight in human history". I cant recall what page that was on but it stuck in my head. So who's pushing up prices in Auckland I wonder? ... Hmmm If It walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck.

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by  PocketAces  |  2nd Aug 16, 4:58pm 1470113939

Unless it's a parrie which honks like a goose

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by  NorthernLights  |  4th Aug 16, 6:25am 1470248705

Oh the Chinese are reaching US$29Billion in United States investments for year. Things going swimmingly up here. Restrictions ? are for those with no lawyers

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by  fat pat  |  2nd Aug 16, 5:46pm 1470116810

Really good strategy tired_immigrant - get into a semantics debate about what constitutes a foreigner. You should go work for Crosby/Textor.

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by  surfisup  |  1st Aug 16, 3:12pm 1470021131

The real nature of the debate should be what consitutes a foreigner.

Just walking around the streets of Auckland there has been a large demographic change in population. Is someone moved here recently from China or whereever and bought a few houses considered a foreigner? In these stats, probably not.

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by  tired_immigrant  |  1st Aug 16, 3:38pm 1470022692

Wow, how do you know (by just walking around) that everyone is or is not a "foreigner" (whatever that means)?

Is someone moved here recently from China or whereever and bought a few houses considered a foreigner? --> not sure what this means. If they moved here (regardless of whether they bought a house or not), how are they a "foreigner"? Do you mean non-white and in your view not a kiwi? If so, please state so explicitly.

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by  Joe Public  |  2nd Aug 16, 5:19am 1470071997

Foreign buyers in Australia include
Non residents
Temporary visa residents
Foreign students

Australia apply stamp duty when foreign purchasers buy.

Citizens and permanent residents are exempt.

In NZ the media focus on residents verses non residents. Ridiculous. They should follow Australia's lead.

Stamp duty 15% on foreign buyers will reduce their demand. Why should they have the same rights as nz citizens and permanent residents. Follow Australia, Canada and Singapore and apply stamp duty to this group.

Supply is tight and house prices are going through the 1m Mark.

Linz report tells us 60% of buyers are not NZ Citizens. Crazy

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by  PocketAces  |  2nd Aug 16, 6:51am 1470077493

Hmm, I wonder then, how big is the education "export" industry is going in Australia then, anyone got any numbers there, wonder how they stack up per capita against ours.

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by  NorthernLights  |  4th Aug 16, 6:27am 1470248872

Always room for another 10,000. 80,000 is National target for 2017
More Mercedes SUVs Audi & BMWs on roads = Govt tax revenues
All very good for country
Haere mai

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by  CJ099  |  1st Aug 16, 3:32pm 1470022321

No one really cares any more, we're too busy watching Canada and Oz to see what impact their new tax regulations have on their property bubbles. At least they have enough common sense to do something.

But what is worrying is that LINZ admit that their data is inaccurate and cautioned that the data cannot be relied on for another 12 months because of flaws in questions about whether buyers are overseas students or on temporary work visas or not.

Why on earth would it take a year to fix a simply questionnaire??

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by  PocketAces  |  2nd Aug 16, 5:00pm 1470114004

I reckon their taxes could well be causing this new accelerated growth in house prices here, so you may not have to look far.

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by  sharetrader  |  1st Aug 16, 3:18pm 1470021519

what gets me is the blatant clouding of the information by making sure the question 2 was not clear and could be used to hide information that is needed to see what and whom are purchasing and in what numbers
this is so obvious it is not funny anymore and goes to the core of this governments intentions and modus operandi

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by  OpenPensionResolutn  |  1st Aug 16, 3:47pm 1470023233

Agreed, they could have changed the questions by now, but it's probably incompetence.

To have a conspiracy, you need at least two brains to collude together. I'm not certain LINZ collectively possess two brain cells to rub together.

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by  sharetrader  |  1st Aug 16, 4:26pm 1470025586

heres one for conspiracy theories, JK comes out before first survey and says its around 3%. then survey comes out and guess what its 3%, then we see the question 2 which has been designed in what we would call a incompetant manner but is it?
or as those of us that have worked for a government department , would have a different opinion in that the answer range was pre determined and the question was structured in such a way to bring in the answer in the range required by the government

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by  Independent_Observer  |  1st Aug 16, 4:31pm 1470025862

Caution trader - Jong Key might have the GCSB and SIS onto you.

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by  Munes  |  1st Aug 16, 3:22pm 1470021779

There is only one thing worse than No Data, and that is Bad Data. This is Bad data.

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by  tired_immigrant  |  1st Aug 16, 3:39pm 1470022790

I think what is worse are conjectures/arguments based on anecdotes and conspiracy theories that insist that such anecdotes are accurate despite whatever the data says on the contrary. If in doubt, attack the data first (but keep the anecdotes)?

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by  Noncents  |  1st Aug 16, 11:24pm 1470050646

What does the data say? That 3% of buyers are offshore foreign citizens with zero ties to NZ.

How many buyers are citizens of NZ? This is what the average person on the street thinks of when hearing "foreign".

GIGO comes to mind. Maybe when they ask the right question then you can say - look at the data.

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by  tired_immigrant  |  2nd Aug 16, 11:21am 1470093714

What does the data say? That 3% of buyers are offshore foreign citizens with zero ties to NZ. --> yup.

How many buyers are citizens of NZ? This is what the average person on the street thinks of when hearing "foreign". --> the average citizen (I assume you are speaking for yourself) probably cannot differentiate between PRs, citizens, tax residents and non-tax residents. One set is an immigration concept whereas the other is a taxation concept. They overlap but not necessarily. My question to you is: what do you mean by citizen? Is that one who holds a NZ passport or does this include PRs who do not hold NZ passports? What about people who give up their NZ citizenship but come back as PRs? What about citizens who are not tax residents? I will hazard a guess that the average citizen (like yourself) may classify certain races as "foreign", even though they may have been born in New Zealand or grew up here holding a NZ passport, but are happy to give a free pass to other races who are of certain color despite not being born in NZ or does not hold a NZ passport or PR.

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by  Noncents  |  2nd Aug 16, 11:49am 1470095394

Not seeing why this is so hard to understand. A NZ Citizen is very easily defined. A Citizen is an individual who holds current NZ Citizenship.

" Is that one who holds a NZ passport"
To own a NZ Passport you must be a NZ Citizen. So yes, they are a citizen.

" PRs who do not hold NZ passports?"
If they are a PR, then they are not a citizen. IF they became a citizen, then it is irrelevant if they hold a NZ passport or not.

"What about people who give up their NZ citizenship but come back as PRs?"
Not a citizen as they gave up that right, why you would do this then come back as a PR is beyond me though.

"What about citizens who are not tax residents?"
They are still a citizen

"I will hazard a guess that the average citizen (like yourself) may classify certain races as "foreign", even though they may have been born in New Zealand or grew up here holding a NZ passport, but are happy to give a free pass to other races who are of certain color despite not being born in NZ or does not hold a NZ passport or PR."
Not at all, Race is irrelevant. A foreigner is someone born overseas (technically they can be born in NZ), but they do not have NZ Citizenship.

It is actually very simple. If you do not have "Citizenship" then you are not a citizen.

If you are still confused I suggest you go to Australia, they find it very easy to differentiate. A foreigner is anyone that can be deported.

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by  tired_immigrant  |  2nd Aug 16, 2:23pm 1470104618

Oh trust me, I don't have a problem with defining what's a citizen (and what's not). I was merely pointing out all the nuances that may exist when commentators here use the term "foreign buyer" loosely.

My question to you that is relevant to this article: are you in favour of having only NZ citizens own property? If yes, then my next question: what happens to those that already own property but are not a NZ citizen? Want to confiscate their property? Should we levy "foreign buyer" stamp duties on PRs? What about PRs who have been here for 40 years and the only reason they do not have a NZ passport is that their birth country does not allow dual citizenship?

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by  KH  |  2nd Aug 16, 2:35pm 1470105328

I'll chip in an answer to that. a. Only NZ citizens should own New Zealand land. b. if the law was couched in terms that only NZ citizens could buy NZ land, the situation would correct over time to (a) above. c. Stamp duties. No. Because they would not own NZ property. d. Not a citizen because of 'dual' issue ? You have that choice but (a) applies.

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by  tired_immigrant  |  2nd Aug 16, 2:43pm 1470105833

I'll chip in an answer to that. a. Only NZ citizens should own New Zealand land. --> Why? Many developed countries do not have such a law.

b. if the law was couched in terms that only NZ citizens could buy NZ land, the situation would correct over time to (a) above. --> What about kids born to PRs? Can't existing PRs simply transfer the land to their kids? I am not sure about your projected scenario. I may add that such a law will be a backdoor systematic transfer of wealth from PRs to NZ citizens by a devaluation of their property (if they choose to sell but I would not think so).

c. Stamp duties. No. Because they would not own NZ property. --> guess u are not in favour of foreign buyer stamp duties then.

d. Not a citizen because of 'dual' issue ? You have that choice but (a) applies. --> then what is necessary is reciprocal arrangements between these countries so that Kiwis in the same situation cannot own foreign property. I hope Kiwis don't cry foul then when they cannot buy property in Australia, USA, Canada, Singapore, Hong Kong etc. Way to go (backwards)!

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by  KH  |  2nd Aug 16, 4:55pm 1470113706

Yes. It's a citizens policy. I see you mention Australia. There, a citizen centric policy means that if you mess up, and you are not a citizen they put you on a plane.
Clearly you do not like such a policy - thats fine. But I think you understand it more that you say.

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by  Noncents  |  2nd Aug 16, 2:46pm 1470105990

My original point was that the average person does not understand these nuances, they pretty much see it as Citizen or foreigner (i.e. anyone on a visa is a foreigner. So why do we not just record and report this information accordingly.

To answer your questions,
are you in favour of having only NZ citizens own property?
Yes, I think only citizens should be able to own property.

what happens to those that already own property but are not a NZ citizen?
This is a difficult one, I personally don't believe you confiscate their property. After all they bought it legally. So anyone with property can keep it, however no more property can be sold to non-citizens. i.e. they could not purchase any future properties unless they were citizens.

What about PRs who have been here for 40 years and the only reason they do not have a NZ passport is that their birth country does not allow dual citizenship?
As above, they can no longer buy new property but they can stay in their existing one.
I assume this is your situation as you have made reference to it numerous times. So my question to you (or anyone in this situation) is: Why live in NZ if you obviously do not want to give up ties to your old country? or another way - why do you keep your original citizenship? It seems odd to be so dismissive of the rights of citizens over PR when it is clear you value your citizenship more so.

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by  tired_immigrant  |  2nd Aug 16, 3:01pm 1470106863

My original point was that the average person does not understand these nuances, they pretty much see it as Citizen or foreigner (i.e. anyone on a visa is a foreigner. So why do we not just record and report this information accordingly. --> thanks for clarifying. My point is that what constitutes a "foreigner" is a very complex question because of PRs (there are even two different kinds), individual situations (some countries allow dual citizenships whereas others don't) and the concept of tax residency. This of course does not stop a rational discussion and fact-driven analysis. What stops a proper discussion is the marginalisation and singling out of particular races even when the statistics are not supportive (or even if they are, do not lend to such conclusions).

Yes, I think only citizens should be able to own property. --> see my response to a similar comment. I may add something further: what about foreign investment in property development? Do you honestly believe that NZ can finance the Unitary Plan on its own? How about non-citizens owning shares in NZ companies that own properties? Try to stop being so parochial and insular in an age of globalisation. NZ is a great country in many ways; not so great if it refuses to open up its country.

This is a difficult one, I personally don't believe you confiscate their property. After all they bought it legally. So anyone with property can keep it, however no more property can be sold to non-citizens. i.e. they could not purchase any future properties unless they were citizens. --> doing this as opposed to a properly structured "foreign buyer" tax? Why not look at supply?

As above, they can no longer buy new property but they can stay in their existing one.
I assume this is your situation as you have made reference to it numerous times. So my question to you (or anyone in this situation) is: Why live in NZ if you obviously do not want to give up ties to your old country? or another way - why do you keep your original citizenship? It seems odd to be so dismissive of the rights of citizens over PR when it is clear you value your citizenship more so. --> it's not my situation. I merely cited an example because you asked for why some people can remain PR for 40 years and yet not become citizens. As to why "live in NZ if you obviously do not want to give up ties to your old country? or another way - why do you keep your original citizenship?", try asking the many returning Kiwis why they can still return? The answer: because they didn't give up their citizenship in the first place.

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by  Noncents  |  2nd Aug 16, 3:20pm 1470108009

try asking the many returning Kiwis why they can still return? The answer: because they didn't give up their citizenship in the first place.

Yes - but why not get citizenship in the new country. I bet the bunch of deportees from Australia wished they hadn't been so anti-citizen for their first 40 years.

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by  tired_immigrant  |  2nd Aug 16, 4:00pm 1470110408

Yes - but why not get citizenship in the new country. I bet the bunch of deportees from Australia wished they hadn't been so anti-citizen for their first 40 years. --> because (hard for you to imagine) perhaps people wish to keep their door open in case things turn nasty in their adopted country?

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by  CJ099  |  1st Aug 16, 3:48pm 1470023315

Yep Munes, agreed we all know it's bad data and even LINZ admits to it too, which is hilarious. Can't wait to vote National out, what a sham.

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by  Roy1  |  2nd Aug 16, 8:23am 1470083029

Data is pathetic and what is more shameful is to see smirk on the face of ministers when on camera defending the data with an attitue of Take It Or Leave as you have no choice.

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by  OpenPensionResolutn  |  1st Aug 16, 3:39pm 1470022766

The headline should more correctly read: "LINZ says own data bollocks, public to disregard."

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by  SB KIWI  |  1st Aug 16, 3:45pm 1470023106

Buyers – China: 36, 321, 555
What do you think about this?

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by  tired_immigrant  |  1st Aug 16, 4:12pm 1470024751

What do you think of this:

Australia 285 312 393

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by  sharetrader  |  1st Aug 16, 4:28pm 1470025683

i dont care where they are from i just want to know how many are being sold to non residents and non citizens

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by  Takere  |  1st Aug 16, 4:13pm 1470024829

Maybe a category for persons who own 1 or more houses in NZ and also one or more homes offshore register?

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by  CJ099  |  1st Aug 16, 4:08pm 1470024503

Now what would be interesting to know is how much capital had been poured in to Auckland housing market over the last quarter from foreign buyers or non-resident investors which ever term you want to use (This needs to include those on temp visas and students).

Obviously Vancouver got quite a shock when they discovered that than C$1 billion ($760 million) of foreign money in five weeks alone.
I wonder how much the Auckland housing market made in June this year? Considering were virtually at the same average house price as Vancouver.

New article: Foreign buyers to face tax hike on Metro Vancouver real estate
http://vancouversun.com/news/politics/premier-unveils-foreign-buyers-ta…

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by  keyo_  |  1st Aug 16, 4:13pm 1470024832

“You hire yourself a tax lawyer, you hire yourself an accountant and you can get by that pretty quickly,” said NDP leader John Horgan. “I think sophisticated investors, those who are laundering money in our real estate market, will be able to get by that very quickly.”

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by  Justice  |  1st Aug 16, 4:12pm 1470024758

Groundhog day round two for LINZ. Why bother? honestly, either put out full and comprehensive accurate data or just get out of way and let people who actually can do this job...do it.

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by  SeriousSaver  |  1st Aug 16, 4:18pm 1470025102

Why not just ask the respondent which country they were born in ? when they fill out the form out. I mean, its not rocket science - its like our government is using weasel words all the time. I mean if it walks like a dog, barks like a dog, - dont call it a panda !!!!.

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by  tired_immigrant  |  1st Aug 16, 4:22pm 1470025349

Why does the birthplace of the purchaser matter? You realise people moving countries is very common nowadays across the globe right?

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by  Noncents  |  1st Aug 16, 11:26pm 1470050773

Birth place does not matter.

Citizenship does.

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by  tired_immigrant  |  2nd Aug 16, 8:51am 1470084678

I completely agree. Tell that to the original poster who cannot seem to differentiate between birthplace and citizenship.

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by  Rosa  |  1st Aug 16, 4:32pm 1470025955

I am a lawyer, and I'd just like to provide my $0.02 on the Land Transfer Tax Statements that we fill out with our clients.

Questions 2.1 and 2.2 read as follows:

Q2.1 : Are you or a member of your immediate family a new Zealand citizen or a holder of either a resident, work or student visa? (yes/no/corporate – not an individual).

Q2.2 : If you are a buyer and you or a member of your immediate family hold a work or student visa, do you or a member of your immediate family intend living on the land? (yes/no/not applicable)

The problem is that citizens get lumped in with residents and work and student visa holders in questions 2.1. Then question 2.2 doesn't do enough to explicitly distinguish residents and citizens from visa holders. It is such a roundabout way of determining how may properties are being bought by visa holders, and has led to much confusion in the industry. Particularly in situations where clients are buying via a trust or corporate entity. The information collected is at best confusing, and at worst utterly useless, if not downright misleading. It is beyond me how this form was approved in the first place! I honestly think that I (not a statistician) could have prepared a better questionnaire for collecting meaningful data about who is purchasing houses in NZ

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by  kiwichas  |  1st Aug 16, 4:37pm 1470026270

Depends if you actually have any intention whatsoever of getting meaningful publishable data.

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by  Rosa  |  1st Aug 16, 4:42pm 1470026574

Yeah well, you have to wonder!!

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by  Buzz111  |  1st Aug 16, 7:37pm 1470037050

I agree it appears more like a confuse them type whitewashing exercise. Only slightly better than analysing purchasers surnames or throwing darts.

What's more astounding is if they can't get something as simple as this how can you trust anything else they say / do.

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by  AMAM  |  1st Aug 16, 5:42pm 1470030162

Was not a mistake but was done on purpose. Anyone can see it.

Also once realized that the question is not put properly, how hard is it to correct it.

Delaying till election as national does not want to upset thrir asian friends as it is them who will give them plum posistion and life after next election. So member of current government are securing their future after next election

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by  PocketAces  |  1st Aug 16, 5:44pm 1470030274

It may have been approved because it was precisely to order

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by  Roy1  |  1st Aug 16, 6:20pm 1470032442

THIS IS NATIONAL CONSPIRACY.

Is their no way or anyone who can challenge government that is by filling PIL * Public Interest Litigation * am not sure if have that provision in NZ.

Rosa you being lawyer what is the way that all this nonsense can be challenged or just have to wait till next election.

This lie and dirty politicis is highly unaceptable as is chalenging the inteligence of people.

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by  rastus1  |  1st Aug 16, 9:50pm 1470045007

It's just a box ticking exercise, not a concern at all with accuracy. You could answer however you like, no one will,be checking it.

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by  Joe Public  |  1st Aug 16, 10:52pm 1470048748

Exactly the form has been designed such that

foreign students + temp visa workers are all lumped together with permanent residents and nz citizens.

The real headlines is that 60% of buyers are not citizens.

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by  Fritz  |  1st Aug 16, 4:37pm 1470026260

What a joke this survey / data is!

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by  AMAM  |  1st Aug 16, 5:37pm 1470029826

Under Nationnal Government do not expect truth.

National government is totaly manipulative corrupt arrogant government otherwise they would have taking action to release the correct data.

Shameless.

Best part is that they are taking all NZ for a ride and no one stand up. In any other country opposistion and media would have $##% the government.

Firdt time the questionnsre were flawed so whh not rectify immediately. Waiting for a year is it judt coincidence that after a year is election. Something fishy.

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by  kwkiwi  |  1st Aug 16, 5:41pm 1470030111

Just heard an interview on radio live with Nick Smith re the results of this 'questionaire'. Smith tried to get into a semantics debate about what is a tax resident. Refused to answer the question of how many students on working visas have purchased houses. I never thought I'd say this after having voted national the last three elections but I'm seriously considering voting NZ First at the next election.

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by  PocketAces  |  1st Aug 16, 5:46pm 1470030386

He tried to say these numbers are not designed to reveal foreign buyer numbers, but to identify how many IRD registered buyers there are. LMFAO

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by  PocketAces  |  1st Aug 16, 5:48pm 1470030498

Oh yeah, and Garner just reminded us that those of us who question this "data" are somehow or other aligned with Donald Trump.

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by  12000  |  1st Aug 16, 6:06pm 1470031575

I too voted for national but never again as housing crisis is a part of ecenomy and though not acceptable as is because of government inaction - still can give them benefit of doubts but NO one like manipulative liars and national is full of them.

Best part is that national feel that all kiwis are stupid and can easily be fooled.NOT REALISING THAT NOW THEY STAND TOTALY EXPOSED.

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by  kwkiwi  |  1st Aug 16, 5:48pm 1470030491

Why is Key sending out his henchman Smith to front all the questions resulting from this fudged data? Key doesn't want to get his hands dirty?

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by  PocketAces  |  1st Aug 16, 6:10pm 1470031848

I am actually going to posit the argument that if the student aspect of house buying were sorted that the education export industry would grind to a halt. I think it is entirely possible that a great proportion of overseas students are not here to primarily learn anything other than what is the best suburb(s) to buy in.

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by  kwkiwi  |  1st Aug 16, 6:35pm 1470033329

Exactly and allowing temporary student work visas is just another way to get cheap labour in.

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by  Buzz111  |  1st Aug 16, 7:48pm 1470037734

That's absolutely correct and tourism would collapse. Where else can you do a third rate qualification (from a training institution) and gain nz citizenship as a bonus.

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by  Ahuhyeah  |  1st Aug 16, 8:25pm 1470039919

I heard first hand of a school looking to build a 60 bed hostel using investment money from.their international students parents because that means they can get residency.

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by  PocketAces  |  1st Aug 16, 6:19pm 1470032378

I see TV3 just read out those blasted figures as if they were gospel, no mention of students, corporates etc, nothing to point out that even LINZ says they are not particularly reliable.

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by  Northland Hippy  |  2nd Aug 16, 8:07am 1470082035

TV3 are half the reason why the NZ public think that Winston Peters is a racist fool and that we need all these immigrants and foreign sales.
The other half of the reason is TV1. Mike Hosking stated in one of his round up speeches that this country needs a population of 16 million people.
Our media are so right wing National that its an embarrassment to journalism.
They even have the average kiwi thinking that Iraq attacked the twin towers and America is the good guys team in Syria, just trying to help out.

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by  moa man  |  2nd Aug 16, 8:48am 1470084520

Media only seem to exist to sell advertising.
Too much power concentrated in too fewer hands.

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by  dollar_bill  |  2nd Aug 16, 10:42am 1470091354

You highlight the real scary thing behind this story - the unbalanced pervasiveness of conservative propaganda in MSM.
Thankfully many, mostly young people, are not buying newspapers nor watching television anymore.
The self-interest driven status-quo miasma these Tory Goons have us in at the moment is a dead end street strewn with dashed dreams, empty rhetoric and divided communities.
The sooner we get turned around and away from this mess the better.

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by  12000  |  1st Aug 16, 6:28pm 1470032920

Fail to understand how come media too does not raise valid question. Independent and fearless media is required for strong democracy.

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by  Joe Public  |  1st Aug 16, 7:15pm 1470035733

Per the Herald
Overall, 60 per cent of house transfers involved buyers who had only New Zealand tax residency. Another 37 per cent involved buyers who did not need to provide tax information - mainly New Zealanders who were buying their main home.

60% buyers foreign purchasers if we use the definition Australia apply

HOW IS THAT NOT THE HEADLINE ?

As mentioned before
-in australia a foreign purchaser is someone who is not a permanent resident or citizen
- in nz being a tax resident means you are not a foreign purchaser.
So foreign students (with houses paid for my parents offshore)
+ temp visa workers are both classified as foreign

That is crazy. Wake up NZ you are being taken for a ride. Why should temporary residents and students be allowed to buy when supply is so tight?

http://nzh.tw/11685175

http://www.sro.vic.gov.au/foreignpurchaser

Foreign purchasers

You will be a foreign purchaser if you are a foreign natural person, a foreign corporation or a trustee of a foreign trust.

Foreign natural persons
You are a foreign purchaser if you are not:

A citizen or permanent resident of Australia,
Or a New Zealand citizen with a Special Category Visa (Subclass 444)

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by  PocketAces  |  2nd Aug 16, 6:55am 1470077738

It seems so simple, *sigh*

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by  Joe Public  |  1st Aug 16, 7:30pm 1470036627

Bernard can you please explain to the readers why you chose to mention the 3% in your headline but completely left out the 60% that are not citizens ?
You are a reporter so should be able to see the real story in the numbers.

Media in NZ are worried about advertising revenue
Banks
Realestate firms

2 biggest spenders

How is 60% tax residency status only not a headline ?
Only 40% of buyers NZ citizens

6/10 buyers don't hold a nz passport

Madness

You don't need to work at the Sun to come up with that headline. 6 out of 10 buyers in NZ are not NZ citizens.

Incredible it's like we are in Russia and we can only report what big business / govt wants

60% buyers are not citizens when we have a housing crisis

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by  Buzz111  |  1st Aug 16, 7:52pm 1470037928

Yep, why do you think John Campbell was removed.(and replaced with reality tv of course)

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by  Caleb  |  1st Aug 16, 9:40pm 1470044435

You are on to it Joe. Email the Interest team directly, see if they can clarify 6/10 with LINZ

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by  AMAM  |  1st Aug 16, 7:29pm 1470036570

National is testing th patience of the people and will only act when people come out on street.

Uprising.

Now even EU has acknowledge that NZ is a Tax heaven. Why the denial whom is JK protecting.

60% foreign pasaport are buying property, still government not acting.

Understood a lobby has been formed to convince council to pass unitary plan than why NOT A LOBBY OF SO CALLED EXPERTS AND WELL WISHERS OF NZ TO ACT ON FOREIGNERS IN NZ INTEREST.

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by  Independent_Observer  |  1st Aug 16, 7:42pm 1470037355

It's interesting why there isn't an uprising though isn't it.

But think about it. The majority of voters (for now) are home owners. They've enjoyed seeing the values of their homes increase dramatically over the last 5 years. But it was okay to ignore the 'why' prices were rising so much.

But now we're starting to get a clearer picture 'why' we've seen such dramatic price rises, it's starting to sit a bit uncomfortably - but JK has known that it's more important for the majority of people to feel rich than to worry why they were becoming so 'rich'. And it appears that is still true looking at the polls. Interesting society we live in these days.

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by  CJ099  |  1st Aug 16, 9:30pm 1470043812

Yes though I think the majority of those family home owners are starting to realise that there's no way their children will ever be able to afford a home in NZ. That will have a significant negative impact on Nationals votes.

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by  SmoKey  |  1st Aug 16, 7:29pm 1470036589

We are going into Tui billboard territory with all these funny statistics, reports and headlines...

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by  xelnaga  |  1st Aug 16, 7:44pm 1470037469

It would be wonderful if interest.co.nz could get a statement from LINZ about why it takes a year to fix a defective form?

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by  Joe Public  |  1st Aug 16, 7:33pm 1470036784

They should be ashamed or themselves. Part of the problem not the solution. Playing the nz public for idiots.

60% only hold foreign passports
60% are not citizens

Yet headline is 3% offshore

This miss reporting has to stop.

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by  CJ099  |  1st Aug 16, 7:51pm 1470037897

Still I'm sure our Government will be quite happy to increase the LVR rates to 50 or 60% deposits for local investors based off the new LINZ figures.

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by  Joe Public  |  1st Aug 16, 8:01pm 1470038507

Benard reading the article again i see you didnt even mention the 60% buyers are not citizens. I had to get that from the herald. Was that not news worthy ???

Scary thing is that as the prices increases to over 1m in Auckland the percentage that are not NZ citizens will only increase from the 60% level today

Let that soak in only 40% are citizens. For Auckland this number is likely to be even less ?

Does question nz media's integrity that something so important wouldn't get highlighted in the headlines.

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by  CJ099  |  1st Aug 16, 8:14pm 1470039294

Yes and the other major problem is as long as our property prices remain massively over inflated so will the NZD, which is slowly strangling our Export markets and is likely to dampen our Tourist industry, since it will be too expensive for people to visit let alone live here.

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by  AMAM  |  1st Aug 16, 8:28pm 1470040138

Everyone is a part of big racket thats why you see news that they all want people to see but forget that in todays time with social media, news fly faster and so does the opinion.

Everyone talks about brexit and usa but forgets Egypt where social media played the most important role in throwing the government.

BEWARE THE FURY OF A PATIENT MAN

Bernard use the above headline for your next article as is serious matter.

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by  12000  |  1st Aug 16, 8:31pm 1470040312

Should be Beware The Fury Of A Patient Nation.

If can happen it in NZ, why not NZ.

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by  Kakapo  |  1st Aug 16, 8:36pm 1470040580

One of the major reasons given for this is that NZ is attractive because of its safety and stability. That's one of the few things that the average dude on the street has the power to change. Just takes a few molotovs.

History is very clear on this point.

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by  CJ099  |  1st Aug 16, 9:41pm 1470044464

I think it far better to changes our Government with the power of our votes. Hopefully we can make NZ a safe and more prosperous place by allowing quality homes to be affordable to everyone and not just the wealthy elite who can win the maximum bid.

I for one would like to see an early election before our average house price goes well beyond the million mark, because I don't know how were going to get down from there to more affordable levels without a crash.

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by  Kakapo  |  2nd Aug 16, 7:28am 1470079689

I think that would be better too. But how long will that take? Will it happen, with all the media collusion, and gerrymandering? Just don't see how we can extricate ourselves from this without it being a hell of a mess.

There are potential time-bombs ticking away in the returning Kiwis, too. The blue-collar unemployment safety valve of going to Australia to work in the mines is being closed off, and there's a small but steady trickle of disgruntled, angry and resentful deportees being sent back from Australia, who will have difficulty getting into the workforce because of those minor criminal records that are the reason for deportation. The returning Kiwis aren't all cashed-up professionals returning from London.

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by  Too clever by half  |  1st Aug 16, 9:37pm 1470044243

Wow amazed at how some people worrying so much about this as if they have nothing else in their life to occupy their mind and time ,focus on the positive things folks.

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by  Noncents  |  2nd Aug 16, 11:54am 1470095663

I would like to think that myself. But it has quite serious long term implications.

Ask any indigenous person around the world how it worked out for them when a foreigner came in and took all their land.

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by  Noncents  |  1st Aug 16, 9:44pm 1470044680

Question:

Are you a New Zealand Citizen?
Answer: Yes or No

Why is it so hard to determine a foreign buyer?

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by  rastus1  |  1st Aug 16, 9:55pm 1470045324

They'll just answer yes.

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by  Noncents  |  1st Aug 16, 10:28pm 1470047325

I would laugh, but you're right.

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by  Roy1  |  2nd Aug 16, 8:17am 1470082670

You are able to make sense as have nothing to hide and lie but the same cannot be said about national government.

Not acting on foreign buyers can be national party policy but LIE AND FALSE PROPOGANDA IS NOT ACCEPTED FROM THE GOVERNMENT AND ITS AGENCIES rightly pointed out by few commentators and everyone should expose and shame manipulative liars at all platforn to save NZ.

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by  tired_immigrant  |  2nd Aug 16, 8:57am 1470085062

What about PRs? You also do realise that NZ PRs can hold non-NZ passports? NZ PRs may in fact reside out of this country (i.e. non tax resident and therefore not paying tax) and people on temporary work visas are generally tax residents? The term "foreign buyer" is bandied around so often. Pin down what exactly do you guys want. And if you want to stop PRs from buying (which I have no doubt that some of you would love to), think about the greater economic consequences.

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by  Noncents  |  2nd Aug 16, 1:27pm 1470101233

A PR can rent until they obtain their citizenship. It's not the end of the world.

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by  tired_immigrant  |  2nd Aug 16, 2:25pm 1470104756

I see. Bad luck for those that have been PRs for forty years for example.

Is it the end of the world for young NZ citizens to rent until they can afford to buy then?

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by  PocketAces  |  2nd Aug 16, 2:32pm 1470105142

Given that being able to afford to buy is getting further and further away from NZers, the answer to your question has got to be yes, especially if those people they are FORCED to rent from are not even citizens and probably don't even live here and even more especially if the public purse in the form of accommodation top ups are being paid to the foreigner renting to the NZers who cannot afford to buy.
Why is it I get the distinct impression you are donkey deep in the status quo and are benefiting from it? You appear to have zero concern for the citizens of this nation and keep scrambling around for any excuse to excuse the buy up of our houses and land by foreigners.

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by  sharetrader  |  2nd Aug 16, 2:37pm 1470105441

agree with that, the lack of concern for the locals of a country you migrated too says a lot about your attitude agaisnt the locals that welcomed you in

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by  tired_immigrant  |  2nd Aug 16, 2:39pm 1470105566

Given that being able to afford to buy is getting further and further away from NZers, the answer to your question has got to be yes, especially if those people they are FORCED to rent from are not even citizens and probably don't even live here and even more especially if the public purse in the form of accommodation top ups are being paid to the foreigner renting to the NZers who cannot afford to buy. --> I thought it's quite clear from the statistics about this mythical "foreign buyer" majority?

Why is it I get the distinct impression you are donkey deep in the status quo and are benefiting from it? You appear to have zero concern for the citizens of this nation and keep scrambling around for any excuse to excuse the buy up of our houses and land by foreigners. --> I am not excusing the buy up. Have I said anywhere that I condon such purchases? I am merely pointing out that commentators have to be careful with their definition of "foreign purchasers/buyers" and avoid singling out any particular race or nationality. Unfortunately, this point seems lost on many.

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by  Noncents  |  2nd Aug 16, 2:32pm 1470105160

Why would you be a PR for 40 years and not become a citizen?

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by  tired_immigrant  |  2nd Aug 16, 2:36pm 1470105405

There should be a demonstrable benefit of becoming a citizen (as opposed to being a PR). Are you proposing one?

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by  DFTBA  |  2nd Aug 16, 2:57pm 1470106673

A lot of nations now allow dual citizenship, so why wouldn't you apply for citizenship if you can get it? It would remove the requirement to transfer your PR from your old passport to your new passport, every time it's been renewed, for starters.
So there's definitely a cost saving, there. Plus: citizenship also allows you to partake in politics, should you wish to pursue a career helping your community through elected office.
It also shows a commitment to staying.
Take kiwis in Australia, for example: some of these people being 'deported' have lived most of their lies in Aussie. If they had applied for citizenship, they wouldn't face deportation.....
.
There are lots of benefits to being a citizen.

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by  tired_immigrant  |  2nd Aug 16, 3:03pm 1470107039

A lot of nations now allow dual citizenship, so why wouldn't you apply for citizenship if you can get it? It would remove the requirement to transfer your PR from your old passport to your new passport, every time it's been renewed, for starters. --> many countries still don't.

It also shows a commitment to staying. --> just as being born a NZ citizen does not prove a commitment to staying. Witness the number of kiwis in Australia?

There are lots of benefits to being a citizen. --> my point was that this is often weighed by PRs against giving up their original citizenship. Such "benefits" in being a NZ citizen do not currently exist in NZ.

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by  Noncents  |  2nd Aug 16, 3:01pm 1470106874

Personally their should be numerous rights that a citizen should get over a PR.

e.g.
- The right to vote
- Property ownership
- Any govt Benefits (I don't agree with the "but I paid taxes" argument - you paid taxes for the infrastructure and day to day running's of the country, not to receive a benefit - that is a charitable bonus provided by the citizens to ensure that no other citizen suffers unduly.)

I would also say a PR should not exist. You are either visiting the country or you are staying there - in which case you become a citizen.

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by  tired_immigrant  |  2nd Aug 16, 3:08pm 1470107321

- Any govt Benefits (I don't agree with the "but I paid taxes" argument - you paid taxes for the infrastructure and day to day running's of the country, not to receive a benefit - that is a charitable bonus provided by the citizens to ensure that no other citizen suffers unduly.) --> you may find that very often, non-citizens who pay taxes support more than just their use of infrastructure and day-to-day running of the country. This includes supporting NZ citizens who are perpetually on welfare benefits. In any case, they expand the tax base and there are existing rules relating to pensions paid to PRs. Hence I am not sure where the charitable bonus is here? Who is giving and who is receiving?

I would also say a PR should not exist. You are either visiting the country or you are staying there - in which case you become a citizen. --> so no temporary workers? What's a "visit"? 10 days? 10 years? Again, a very insular way of thinking but that's fine.

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by  TommyYank-old  |  2nd Aug 16, 5:40pm 1470116402

Just poking my two cents in here. PR's in NZ have it pretty good.
My kiwi wife living in USA for 30 years-on a "Green Card" (=Permanent Residency in USA), however they can not vote. Now comes Obama eager to convert "illegal" immigrants who never applied for Immigration and gained a "green card" and he wants to fast tract 15 million or so to citizenship so that they can vote-for you know who!
On the LINZ debacle I listed to Morning Report today. A full propaganda mission underway by the Ministry to inform that the register is being complied for Tax Purposes only , and never intended to be used for other purposes-such as a foreign home ownership ledger. Certainly they are all circling their wagons down in Wellington on this issue.

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by  billsay  |  2nd Aug 16, 6:00pm 1470117618

any 'green card' holder in the US can apply for citizenship after five years (and in the case of NZers can retain their NZ citizenship). So wondering why your wife hasn't applied for citizenship so she can then vote? And if you are Tommy Yank and are a US citizen, it wouldn't take five years in any case for your wife to become a US citizen.

And wondering why you need to imagine Obama wanting to fast track 15 million 'illegals' just so they can vote for 'you know who'? It's not doable without Congress to provide the legislation to so allow, and we've all seen how political that is and how it hasn't been done. (And another 'you know who' proposing to deport many/most of the 'illegals' - and that's his solution to your problem.)

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by  Too clever by half  |  1st Aug 16, 9:55pm 1470045330

Read on NASA crash may happen in 2035 Asteroid. also tonight Herald online.

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by  tim12  |  1st Aug 16, 10:29pm 1470047389

If foreign buyers are in fact a very small percentage then why allow them? Maybe they are being used by the government to drive up the market, to create a building boom. Can I suggest he real foreigners driving up the market are the banks.

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by  Joe Public  |  1st Aug 16, 11:27pm 1470050865

Tim 60% of buyers are not nz citizens. Read
http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11685…

NZ citizens are the minority

You wonder why prices are approaching 1m in Auckland. This is why.
In australia foreign buyers include offshore residents, temp visa workers and foreign students.

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by  ngakonui gold  |  2nd Aug 16, 6:48am 1470077293

918 hectare Maniototo dairy farm sold to Canadians.
Haven't heard a peep from all the critics regarding overseas buyers but then again it could be reserved for only certain buyers from certain countries.

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by  PocketAces  |  2nd Aug 16, 7:01am 1470078093

Perhaps if it were more widely publicised it might!! I did spot one article about it, tucked away in the farming section of Stuff which allowed comments, which people did, mostly in the negative.

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by  AMAM  |  2nd Aug 16, 7:05am 1470078305

Housing affects common people and speculation is more rampant and evident.

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/house-sale-stats-continue-mislead-foreign-…

National too is aware but denying to avoid taking any action as private understanding and promises they must have had behind closed doors otherwise what is the reason. Surely not so ignorant and stupid to not know what is known to all and as clear as a water. It is the government mindset that is corrupt.

Even people who are in support of rising house price for personal gain, should ask to themselves if the overseas data announced is correct or not. Not acting againdt foreign buyer is one thing but LIES AND MANIPULATION IS NOT ACCEPTED.

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by  AMAM  |  2nd Aug 16, 7:05am 1470078308

Housing affects common people and speculation is more rampant and evident.

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/house-sale-stats-continue-mislead-foreign-…

National too is aware but denying to avoid taking any action as private understanding and promises they must have had behind closed doors otherwise what is the reason. Surely not so ignorant and stupid to not know what is known to all and as clear as a water. It is the government mindset that is corrupt.

Even people who are in support of rising house price for personal gain, should ask to themselves if the overseas data announced is correct or not. Not acting againdt foreign buyer is one thing but LIES AND MANIPULATION IS NOT ACCEPTED.

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by  tired_immigrant  |  2nd Aug 16, 8:58am 1470085113

Nobody said anything about Australians buying. I guess if the person looks white, everything is fine.

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by  sharetrader  |  2nd Aug 16, 11:09am 1470092991

we have reciprocal agreement with australia, also NZ and australia are very close, we used to part of them (part of new south wales) and can still be at any time, its enshined in their commerwealth act if we ask we can join.
so they are an exception to any rule for foreign buyers
maybe if you learned some NZ history you would know the ties between the two countries

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by  tired_immigrant  |  2nd Aug 16, 11:28am 1470094091

we have reciprocal agreement with australia, also NZ and australia are very close, we used to part of them (part of new south wales) and can still be at any time, its enshined in their commerwealth act if we ask we can join.
so they are an exception to any rule for foreign buyers
maybe if you learned some NZ history you would know the ties between the two countries --> Is NZ a sovereign nation (yes it is)? If so, any other buyer from other countries (a debate can be had over this definition) should be considered as a "foreign buyer". Not sure why there should be any exception unless there are reciprocal benefits (and if so, then more questions can be raised). Funny how I will probably know more about the NZ constitutional history etc than the "average born and bred kiwi" but you can keep the challenges coming.

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by  Joe Public  |  2nd Aug 16, 7:12am 1470078757

This is brilliant listen to this. Why won't Nick Smith answer this one simple question?

The question was at 5mins 30seconds.
"How many foreign students and temporary workers are buying and are they counted as a foreigner or as a New Zealander for these sales ?"

http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Why-wont-Nick-Smith-answer-this-one-simple-q…

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by  AMAM  |  2nd Aug 16, 7:50am 1470081031

Joe public if this ministers have an open debate with public live will not know where to hide. They get away with media who asks soft question and on their response, no grilling by the journalist like it happens in other part of the world as a result politicians have to think 10 times before comming out with justification of their action based on lie and false manipulative data.

Need very strong journalist who can take on the power without fear for just cause and bring government lies and hidden agenda in the public domain.

We do have few but somthing at times hold them back as should remember that their fight should be issue based and not personality based so personal equation have to be kept aside in the interest of the country

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by  kwkiwi  |  2nd Aug 16, 12:38pm 1470098318

I thought Garner was giving it a good go to get the truth out of Smith yesterday, didn't back down. What surprises me is that the interest.co.nz website is the only site I can see that has an article on the Linz data and is allowing comments. The NZ Herald seem to have shut down any commenting for good. I wonder what the reasoning behind that is.

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by  xelnaga  |  2nd Aug 16, 9:26am 1470086790

You can imagine he was left a little red faced after that!

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by  Aspiring home owner  |  2nd Aug 16, 9:40am 1470087657

Haha, very good.

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by  12000  |  2nd Aug 16, 7:32am 1470079973

National Party does not wanting to take any action on foreign buyer is upto them for whatever vested personal interest that they may have but what is ANNOYING is false manipulative reason provided by them. By doing this are testing the intelligence of people and they feel that kiwis are stupid and can be taken for a ride without realising that they now stand totally exposed and the very sight of them on media is disgusting. It is them to be blamed for this reaction as it is us who voted for them and it will be us who will throw them out of parliment...

Would like experts opinion on my comment - a commoner

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by  Joe Public  |  2nd Aug 16, 8:10am 1470082256

http://www.linz.govt.nz/news/2016-08/new-property-data-consistent-last-…

60 percent of transfers involved buyers who have only New Zealand tax residency. This compares to 50 percent in the previous quarter.

37 percent involved buyers who did not need to provide tax information – the majority of these were New Zealand citizens or residents who were buying their main home. This is the same percentage as the previous quarter

so 37% NZ citizens ?

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by  AMAM  |  2nd Aug 16, 8:44am 1470084251

Everyone knows but no solution till election year.

Media too is silent.

Yesterday had a big news about panama papers and EU action but today nothing was said about it in news or by experts - courtsey national party PR or dictate.

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by  random  |  2nd Aug 16, 9:33am 1470087183

Agree with all the comments that this is unbelievable incompetence from LINZ and that the MEDIA needs to hammer them and this data. 18 months to gather some simple data on one of the most important issues the country is currently facing?

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by  miranda  |  2nd Aug 16, 9:41pm 1470130887

I think they are over qualified to do this simple data, thereby confusing all New Zealanders.

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by  CJ099  |  2nd Aug 16, 9:44am 1470087897

Yes and the LINZ did promise to “redesign its survey questions” for September this year to provide accurate information, now they're say it's going to take them a YEAR!!!! ????

What an insult. You can fool some of the people some of the time but not all the people all the time!

Quote from article: LINZ said it was redesigning the survey question and was likely to have fresh data for the September quarter which correctly identified which of the New Zealand tax residents were foreign students or people in New Zealand on temporary work visas.

Original article: http://www.interest.co.nz/property/81501/linz-says-3-home-farm-and-busi…

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by  xelnaga  |  2nd Aug 16, 10:16am 1470089775

Hate to shout conspiracy... But it's deliberate.

Just like this...

https://imgur.com/q000Ijr

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by  CJ099  |  2nd Aug 16, 10:25am 1470090348

Well at least Labour are willing to stand up and point out that they know that the LINZ data is misleading. If they're willing to follow Australia's and Canada's stance on taxing foreign property buyers then they've got my vote.

Quote from article link: "Labour Party leader Andrew Little said the LINZ data was selective, misleading and underestimated the impact of foreign speculators on New Zealand’s housing market.

Labour has long said that foreign buyers are having a significant impact on the country’s housing market".

http://www.landlords.co.nz/article/5815/foreign-buyer-stats-misleading?…+

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by  Joe Public  |  2nd Aug 16, 10:47am 1470091638

CJ099 I agree and Labour did call it right

we need to do two things
1. Follow Australia's definition of what a foreign purchaser is: http://www.sro.vic.gov.au/foreignpurchaser
Anyone who is not a citizen or permanent Resident. So foreign students and temp visa workers although having tax residency in NZ are actual fact foreign buyers.

2. Apply the 15% stamp duty on foreign buyers that Canada (BC) brought in to tackle foreign buyer demand.

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by  CJ099  |  2nd Aug 16, 11:12am 1470093170

Yes I very much agree with you Joe, it's probably high time that we and hopefully those who have also realised that doing nothing is a road to selling out our Kiwi quality of life for generations to come.

We need to start lobbying our MP's so they know that they have voters backing to start taxing foreign property purchasers. Especially now that other major cities are taking this action to protect their Citizens.

Otherwise what's the alternative; National will just keep squeezing out our Kiwi citizens and local Investors until there's now where left to run to?

Well since Labour are taking up the challenge and are more likely to oust National, I'm starting here: http://www.labour.org.nz/contact-us

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by  tired_immigrant  |  2nd Aug 16, 11:37am 1470094658

1. Follow Australia's definition of what a foreign purchaser is: http://www.sro.vic.gov.au/foreignpurchaser
Anyone who is not a citizen or permanent Resident. So foreign students and temp visa workers although having tax residency in NZ are actual fact foreign buyers. --> do you know that NZ has resident visas and permanent residency visas? The first one contains travel conditions that only allow a person to re-enter New Zealand as a resident until a certain date. The other allows indefinite re-entry to New Zealand. Question: should the first one be classed as a "foreign purchaser"? Why?

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by  CJ099  |  2nd Aug 16, 12:11pm 1470096672

Too late

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by  kwkiwi  |  2nd Aug 16, 12:42pm 1470098565

tired immigrant you have posted 21 comments on this topic or 14% of the comments posted. Would you care to disclose why this topic and a contrary stance on it is so important to you. I surmise you are working for the National party. Am I correct there?

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by  Bozeman  |  2nd Aug 16, 2:21pm 1470104497

You may have noticed that TI has been a member of this board for fewer than four weeks.

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by  tired_immigrant  |  2nd Aug 16, 2:33pm 1470105222

Thanks for analysing (I was looking for such statistics). Can't take the heat or is this board only for naysayers who are all about white kiwis?

Simple: I am here to call out racism. Racism is fine by me actually but just have the guts to admit it.

And no, I do not work for or support the National party.

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