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Is a smoothed path for Kiwis seeking Aussie citizenship the quid pro quo for New Zealand signing-on to AUKUS?

Public Policy / opinion
Is a smoothed path for Kiwis seeking Aussie citizenship the quid pro quo for New Zealand signing-on to AUKUS?
hipkins-albo-trotter.jpg

By Chris Trotter*

Let's get something straight, right from the start, Australia is still discriminating against New Zealanders. They’re making it a lot quicker and easier for Kiwis to become Aussie citizens, which is great, so – “thanks cobber” – but, that’s all they’re doing.

An Aussie, crossing the Tasman, is guaranteed instant residence here and can apply for permanent resident status after just two years. Permanent residents, in New Zealand, get to enjoy pretty much the same rights and privileges as full New Zealand citizens. They can vote, they have full access to health and education services, they can get the dole. About the only thing a permanent resident can’t do is stand for public office. That right is reserved for citizens alone.

When the new regime announced by Australia’s Labor PM, Anthony Albanese, on 21 April 2023 comes into effect, however, a Kiwi crossing the Tasman will still not be allowed to vote or access much of the Lucky Country’s education, health and welfare services. Yes, after four years, and providing they keep their nose clean, Kiwis will become eligible for Australian citizenship. But, until that threshold is reached, New Zealanders across the ditch will continue to remain worse off than their Australian counterparts over here.

To understand why the Australians moved away from the full reciprocation of benefits provided for in the Trans-Tasman Travel Arrangement of 1973, it is necessary to refresh our historical memories.

In February 2001 the conservative Australian government, led by Prime Minister John Howard, was struggling to turn back boatloads of illegal immigrants desperate to settle in Australia. Sensitised by what he saw as these unrelenting challenges to his country’s borders, and conscious of the potential cost of what amounted to uncontrolled immigration from New Zealand, Howard strong-armed the New Zealand Government into a new bilateral social security arrangement with New Zealand, and amended citizenship laws for New Zealand citizens. The Special Visa Category (SVC) set up for New Zealanders in 1994, was transformed, practically overnight, into a bureaucratic mechanism for keeping Kiwis in a state of permanent impermanence. They could check-in any time they liked to Australia, but they could never arrive.

In late August of 2001, the Australian Government’s intolerance of uncontrolled immigration went up several notches in response to the MV Tampa affair. An important aspect of the political crisis kicked off by the Tampa was the Howard Government’s attempt to secure the urgent passage of the Border Protection Bill. This legislative initiative would have granted draconian powers to Australia’s border authorities to turn back illegal immigrants. Although rejected by the Australian Senate, the bill nevertheless revealed the lengths to which the Liberal and National parties were prepared to go to “Stop the Boats” and “Keep Australia Safe”. This drive for enhanced national security was super-charged by the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the United States. Certainly, there is no disputing the role played by the Tampa and 9/11 in securing the Howard Government’s re-election in October 2001.

Nor should we forget the role played by the New Zealand Prime Minister, Helen Clark, in the Tampa affair, one which left a bitter taste in conservative Australian mouths. While the world was condemning Howard’s brutal handling of the Tampa refugees, it was heaping praise on Clark for her offer to settle 150 of them in New Zealand. Aussie politicians and public servants saw this as yet another example of “the bloody Kiwis” making themselves look good at Australia’s expense.

The Bali Bombing of October 2002 only reinforced the Australian Government’s conviction that their draconian controls over immigration and Australian citizenship were justified. Thanks to Bali, the Bush Administration’s War On Terror instantly became Australia’s war. As far as Howard’s Government was concerned, Australia could not be too careful in determining who should become a citizen – and who should not.

The refusal of “the bloody Kiwis” to join their Anzac brothers in the US-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003, did nothing to dispel the growing conviction on the Australian Right that, in spite of all their protestations to the contrary, New Zealanders were no longer Australia’s best friends.

Best friends do not rat on their mates by legislating for a nuclear-free New Zealand. They do not dismantle the air-combat wing of their air force and generally allow their armed forces to become a bad military joke. Best friends do not boast about their “independent foreign policy” – thereby delivering a not very subtle rebuke to Australia’s decision to become Uncle Sam’s “deputy sheriff”. Nor do they suck-up to the Chinese so successfully that Beijing declines to impose anything like the punitive economic restrictions it has slapped on Australian exports.

The role played by racism in Australia’s response to New Zealand immigration is difficult to overestimate. Most Australians will not hesitate to sing the praises of white New Zealand migrants, they are, however, considerably less voluble when it comes to Māori and Pasifika arrivals. These brown Kiwis are the ones disproportionately deported under Section 501 of the Migration Act. They are the “trash” the Liberal Party’s Immigration Minister, Peter Dutton, boasted about “taking out” two years ago. The risk that naturalised New Zealanders from India, the Middle East and Africa might take advantage of the SVC rules to circumvent Australia’s strict immigration laws is another of the unacknowledged rationales for clamping-down on the Kiwis back in 2001.

How, then, to explain Albanese’s promised relaxation of the rules controlling New Zealand immigration? After all, Howard’s decisive victory in 2001 had convinced the Labor Party that taking anything other than a hard line on immigration policy was electoral suicide. Neither Kevin Rudd, nor Julia Gillard, both Labor prime-ministers, were willing to budge on the state of limbo into which the highly-restrictive 2001 SVCs had cast nearly half-a-million Kiwi ex-pats. What brought on Albanese’s Damascene conversion?

Could it be that Australia is simply hungry for New Zealand’s best and brightest? As in the rest of the West, shortages of highly-skilled labour are becoming critical in Australia. It is entirely possible that the harsh conditions imposed back in 2001 are making it increasingly difficult to recruit and retain the talented Kiwis they need?

Poaching our best and brightest may not, however, be the worst of it. New Zealand’s refusal to come to terms with the new Indo-Pacific geo-strategic environment is bothering people in Washington, London and Canberra. It’s even beginning to bother some people in Wellington.

Helen Clark’s “benign strategic environment” of 20 years ago is long gone, and it is becoming ever clearer that New Zealand will very soon have to pick a side in the intensifying rivalry between the USA and China. New Zealand’s “traditional allies” want it to join the new AUKUS alliance – even if poking such a sharp stick at China entails abandoning the country’s Nuclear Free Zone status, and topples New Zealand into a profound economic crisis.

Is it possible that Albanese’s limited concessions on citizenship are intended to act as a sweetener for the wholesale diplomatic, military, economic and cultural realignments that New Zealand signing-on to AUKUS would portend? If so, then the aftertaste of Albanese’s Anzac ice-lolly may prove to be extremely bitter.


*Chris Trotter has been writing and commenting professionally about New Zealand politics for more than 30 years. He writes a weekly column for interest.co.nz. His work may also be found at http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com.

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78 Comments

"How, then, to explain Albanese’s promised relaxation of the rules controlling New Zealand immigration?"

1.58 births per woman.

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Yep, demographics.

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Good grief Chris's big ears are honed in to what elbow has to say

"Ah yeah gidday, the koiwis will be joining us in the big office to celebrate the renewed mateship, snigger snigger"

Chris thought that he and the ALP were mates for life after he assisted them with dropping Barnaby in the poo a few years back. 

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Occams razor suggests that this change of "heart" is primarily about 1. Oz Labour getting an immediate 500k additional voters (Albo won the election on preferences not popular vote) & 2. Oz getting an elevated inflow of the migrants that their currently constrained economy requires.

The rest is speculative.

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X2. Its about access Kiwi talent that wants to work and has mobile skillsets. Aussie has the same retiring boomer wave that we have. The other items may be being discussed but if they were it would have leaked to the press.

Imagine if Kiwi employers have to pay an Aussie level wage to hold onto talent. Put that thought on your bonfire of inflation and smoke it.

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Disagree!? This is about " Hipkins short term gain versus long term pain" stupidity.

 

Remember!  These  700k "soon to be Aussies" are able to vote in  NZ still. Thus Hipkins is going for quick votes versus a long term loss of thousands of NZs Finest ? Who don't typically vote Labour.

 

So Hipkins sells his soul to the Aussies and screws kiwis at home some more.

I'm off to Aussie once I get a cheap property to sell at the next boom.

Too easy!

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Frank doesn’t follow your reasoning - you think these 700k will vote hipkins short term but at same time argue those moving to Aussie don’t vote Labour anyway?

Kiwi dual citizens can still vote too. Long as they’ve visited home in last few years. 

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Brilliant move by the Aussies.

The easiest source of skilled (and semi-skilled) labour imaginable at a time of stiff competition for talent.

Wouldn’t take a genius political analyst to deem that now many in NZ are sniffing for a change! If it means my daughters have an option of citizenship in plannable time frame, boom, no brainer!

Under NZ’s increasingly apartheid based political dystopia (and us being of colonial heritage) tell me good people, what reason’s exist to remain a loyal 2nd class citizen in NZ?

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Yeah contacted a recruitment agency last night for the exact reasons you mention. I was going to go anyway because of co-governance, but this will speed things up. Might as well get the four years ticking.

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Something no one is talking about, probably because few know about it is that as a Kiwi under the existing temporary visa you can be exempt from capital gains tax while living there. As soon as you have a permanent resident 'Spouse' or you become permanent resident yourself you have to pay the tax and moving back to NZ becomes is a tax event where you have to pay a lot of tax on unsold stocks.

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Very true,

I paid for Mazars tax advice on this issue, I should add, you still pay CGT on "real" property i.e. an investment property.

Also note, along with no CGT on shares etc you don't even have to declare any foreign income in your tax return.

This largely leaves Kiwis on a SCV immensely better off than most Aussie citizens.

Its worth a quick Google on ATO rules for temporary residents and SCV holders

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“I was going to go anyway because of co-governance” - Muldoon's famous quote comes to mind. 

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Indeed. More of this sort of policy will see us on the way to New Zimbabwe. The new policy opens the door for all hard working light skinned kiwi's to quickly become Aussies.

Can see a lot of recently imported Saffas and Poms heading to Straya.

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This is whats needed then, a wake up call that non maori kiwis AND maori kiwis won't stand for this new age agenda.

When the Labour party see their serfs exiting and the countries finances going down the loo bowl, reality will hit. Of course Willie and Nanaia may cheer them as they leave as there will be fewer people to fight back.

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Half of NZ households pay no net income tax now. It will be a severe wakeup call if/when many of the currently unappreciated & generally abused net income tax payers depart.

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The welfare situation in NZ is grim.

"In the last year the number of children reliant on a benefit (their caregiver's) has risen by over 3,000.

In the last 6 years the increase is just a smidgen under 40,000.

This is a 24 percent increase against a population aged 0-17 years-old which grew by just 1.7 percent. 

The upward trend was accelerated by covid but began prior and has not reversed since.

...These numbers represent 18.7 percent of all children born in 2018, rising to 19.3 percent of all children born in 2022. Almost one in five.

...For instance, the incidence of maltreatment finding was 11.3 percent in a 2010 birth cohort who had spent more than 80 percent of the previous five years on welfare. For those children who had spent no time dependent on a benefit the incidence dropped to just 0.3 percent."

https://lindsaymitchell.blogspot.com/

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Terrible stats, no doubt correlated to the insane housing situation here where those born earlier in the century hoover up houses for tax free gains and leave later generations struggling. All while patting each other on the back for being hardworking savvy investors.

What has the increase in our biggest beneficiary’s group been in that time? There are 800k receiving the old age benefit which is predicted to rise to 1.2mm in next 20 years.
Not means tested, inflation linked, and entitlement age hasn’t risen in forever even though we live on average an extra 1.6 years per decade.

Utter madness. And completely unaffordable 

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Yip, get to NZ to get to Straya.

To easy !

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by KiwiinSpain | 24th Apr 23, 8:36am: "Under NZ’s increasingly apartheid based political dystopia (and us being of colonial heritage) tell me good people, what reason’s exist to remain a loyal 2nd class citizen in NZ?"

Agreed. I've been in Australia nearly 6 months now and love it. Especially the weather, still warm and sunny here, and has been since I arrived last November. 

I see no reason to return to NZ, and checking the NZ news occasionally just reinforces my conviction. Very pleased indeed about the reinstatement of the direct citizenship option!

I believe this change will benefit Australia while costing NZ dearly.

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It's still warm and sunny in the Mount too.

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Beyond our shores it is a very large world out there and New Zealand as a nation is new, small and remote at the Sth East end of the line.  Travel some distance and stay there and that reality sinks in pretty quickly. Of course if you then start separating out New Zealand as an entity, one race is this and another that, then the relative insignificance of each grouping is simply increased according to scale.

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Up until now, Kiwis have been able to access most of the services that Aussies take for granted.

This includes healthcare (our first son was born in an Australian hospital) and other benefits like paid maternity and paternity leave.

If you're a Kiwi and have a job in Oz, there's not much to complain about - unless you lose your job.

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Hard to imagine any other two nations that are so basically alike. Two brothers, big & little you might say. In my experience though it is invariably the latter who makes the most noise and the former who is more tolerant, but not always.

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Invariably, but not always? 

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Admittedly was not entirely  clear, but by implication the younger/smaller always makes more noise for their size, and the older is not always that tolerant. As a matter of opinion, I would see that sort of familial relationship at play between New Zealand and Australia relatively.

 

 

 

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That's a good challenge: two countries that are alike: Check republic and Slovakia, Serbia and Bosnia and Croatia, North and South Korea, England and Scotland and Ireland, Russia and the Ukraine and Belorussia, Vietnam and China, Bangladesh and Pakistan, Latvia and Lithuania and Estonia and Finland, Norway and Sweden, Paraguay and everywhere is South America?   Whereas NZ and Australia are on different continents with alien ecologies and different sports.

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Again I was,  by implication, suggesting the respective societal & historical similarities. Both share history of the same background and of course it’s a  very young history compared to your list. But at least in that short history we have fought alongside one another, and usually as a first preference, whereas the majority you mention have been embroiled in conflict with each other, at some time in their  far greater history. But certainly, take your point on board, particularly the Baltic States.

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That conflict was my point.  Like two brothers - usually good friends occasionally they fight. Russia and the Ukraine fit most of your shared history and fighting alongside one another - Putin might have achieved what he wanted if he had tried carrot instead of stick. I'm assuming all he really wanted was for the Ukraine to be like a younger brother admiring his older brother.

If NZ has a slight inferiority complex compared to Australia then England has a bigger one compared to France.

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There is no such thing as altruism. 

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Cynical: believing the worst of human nature and motives; having a sneering disbelief in e.g. selflessness of others.

Altruism - disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others. Mother Teresa? My voting for a party that will tax me more heavily?  All the young PI's in NZ sending money home to parents who will leave no assets or inheritance.

Even Xingmowang spending time and effort making comments that bring him no reward other than frequent criticism.

 

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Certainly not in a Chinese labour camp.

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"SWEETENING the deal"? 

/pedantry

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For the apparently many not aware, the SCV residency status for Kiwi's in Australia is one of the most attractive tax regimes available on the planet. The SCV has most of the benefits of permanent residency but does not capture world wide earnings for tax puposes as the holder is not considered a permanent resident. I know a number of successful Kiwi's living in Sydney paid by companies based in low-tax regimes, including large multi-national's. They are paying 5% tax on 7 figure incomes yet enjoying Medicare etc. Why is Russell Crowe still an SCV living in Sydney? Because it is saving him $ million per annum. Who cares about voting when you are saving so much.

So that is the reason to get Kiwi's as Citizens, to close this loophole.

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Thanks for that post TK. Not been looking at Aussie closely but have never heard of that before or living in Aussie refered to that. Can others please comment whether this "tax opportunity" is well known/used, or not?

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Can attest to this myself!

Sans the 7 figure refund.....

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Hi TK as far as I know a person does not need to be either a citizen or permanent resident of NZ to become tax resident (see below for nz rules). Doesnt that also apply in Aus. Simply residing on a SCV should be enough and that then captures world wide income. What a lot of people don't know is the permanent place of abode rule which still makes NZ tax residents after they have left.

Edit: the links you posted above are brilliant thanks. Question: why doesn't the aus federal govt simply change the tax laws surrounding the SCV?

"Becoming a New Zealand tax resident. You become a New Zealand tax resident when the first of these happens: you've been in New Zealand for more than 183 days in any 12-month period. you have a permanent place of abode in New Zealand."

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We are talking about NZ citizens living in Australia under an SCV sub category 444 visa (ie 95%). Of course, if you have NZ income while living in Australia, you need to declare it in NZ. But there is no equalisation.

Being a temporary tax resident in Australia means you can arrange your affairs so that assets and income are out of low tax jurisdictions.

Like I said, I know a few Kiwi's who have gotten very wealthy doing this. It's of little benefit to the average Kiwi going to work the mines but if you are in finance, high earner or asset rich then it's the Golden Ticket.

Put it this way, it is a very similar arrangement to the UK Non-Dom scheme and you need to pay $120,000 fee per annum to access that and the UK Govt still want to scrap it. So let's say that's what it is worth.

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Those being paid by MNC while performing their work in Aus sound like they are playing very loose with the rules. Technically they should be a classified as a tax resident for that work since Aus is their place of residence for more than 183 days a year and they are undertaking that work while in Aus, regardless of if they are a SCV. The links you provide don't contradict that other than for other sources of income (e.g. return on foreign held investments).

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The exemptions are only for passive income so indeed it sounds like TK's acquaintances are playing loose with the rules.

And before anyone gets too excited about the idea of paying themself passive dividends via an offshore company, such a structure will most likely be caught by Australia's company tax residency rules, so it would really only work if the company had a legitimate centre of management, control and operations outside of Australia, and where payments to the SCV holder are either passive (dividends, royalties, capital gains, etc.) or for services performed while physically outside of Australia.

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No, they are definitely not playing "loose" with the rules. They travel a lot and work on multi-jurisdictional and or/international projects and had independent legal advice from a top tier firm. If you are a trader dealing with international clients and trades are booked in NY/Asia/London - there are plenty of examples. No one I know if playing it loose, it would not be worth it.

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"They travel a lot and work on multi-jurisdictional and or/international projects" "a trader dealing with international clients and trades are booked in NY/Asia/London"

So maybe 2-3% of the 95% of people you referred to earlier then?

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I'm not disputing that, however you may be surprised how many wealthy Kiwi's chose to, and still are, parked up in Sydney's Eastern Suburbs over the years.

If you think about it, many of our wealthy have been here at stages over the years.

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We are talking about NZ citizens living in Australia 

Thats why the question "doesn't that also apply in aus" TK.

And also "why doesn't the aus federal govt simply change the tax laws surrounding the SCV" if there are loopholes and they aren't capturing ALL income

 

Oh never mind. Maybe the fact they are residing is enough. And the residence and citizenship thing is just a red herring.

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Wow so if I took my family to Australia (for 190 days a year or more) and maintained my european client as an employer I could go from overall 26% tax to a nice <10% effective rate... 

edit: no I don't think that's true, non-passive income seems to be declarable and it looks like they intend to capture that regular income such as what mine would be.

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You could move your family to Dubai instead and drop that tax rate down to 0% as long as you sell your NZ home.

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You are a temporary tax resident and are not required to pay tax on income generated outside Australia, it's as simple as that.

 

 

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Except it's not as simple as that.

From SimonRo's example, "maintained my european client as an employer"

From ATO website that you linked above: "Most of your foreign income is not taxed in Australia except income you earn from employment or services..."

Passive income is exempt. Active income will generally still be taxable in Australia.

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I'm no expert, but I know several individual's as I said. There is clearly a way to circumvent it, perhaps they receive remuneration in deferred stock?

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Yes it is possible in some circumstances, but not applicable for probably 99% of kiwis who move to Aus. I'd hate for someone to get themselves into years worth of tax debt and fines for making decisions on what seems like a simple solution they read on interest comments.

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It’s possible the mozzie could be deemed nz resident for tax purposes and therefore have to pay tax in nz… 

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Thanks for placing current events in context for me Chris. We have always lived in our little bubble down here innthw South Pacific. Which I think has led us to a particularly unpleasant form of exceptionalism where we naively make up rules to suit our holier than thou narrative whilst criticising our long term friends for having to make tough choices in a dirty and risky world. Our ongoing naivete astonishes me and part of me does not blame the Aussies for wanting to kick us for being so intractable. I for one hope we drop the nonsense nuclear free legislation and realign ourselves with our long term allies. They are the ones who will protect us in the nasty world we have always lived in. Extricating ourselves from under the control of the CCP will be the tricky part.

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I agree - NZ has become quite a greedy and selfish nation..  esp the boomers.

 

 

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Helen Clark’s “benign strategic environment” of 20 years ago is long gone, and it is becoming ever clearer that New Zealand will very soon have to pick a side in the intensifying rivalry between the USA and China. New Zealand’s “traditional allies” want it to join the new AUKUS alliance – even if poking such a sharp stick at China entails abandoning the country’s Nuclear Free Zone status, and topples New Zealand into a profound economic crisis.

China is Bigger, Get Over It

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Hey - it is hardly a surprise or anything new - in fact been coming for years now and we chose to do nothing. 

It like our housing market... healthcare system.. infrastructure....   she'll be right (even when its obvious she wont)

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We'll be formally joined with Oz in some kind of Federation by 2050, sooner if China takes Taiwan. 

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No chance anyone is going to want to pay to defend what by then will be a  couple of second world islands in the pacific. Even China wont see much benefit to come here. except the farmland...  and they will be able to walk in and take that.

All the smarter people will be aus citizens by then and well defended with heavily armed allies and a strategic nuclear deterrent.

We werent considering a move to Australia until last week's news  about citizenship for kiwis - on top of recent undemocratic, backward facing new NZ policies like 3 (or 10) water inequal co-governance . Its not long til our daughter hits uni age and we and she are now likely to take the opportunity to shift  for a better lead in to retirement for us and better career for her.

NZ has very little left to offer anyone and no matter the election result this year it seems likely what is left of NZ will be getting worse and worse. Cant see any reasons to stay..  no glimmers on the horizon and every reason to exit.

 

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The government isn’t welling to pay our doctors, nurses, teachers and police well but paying more benefits to people who are perfectly fit to work but don’t want to….and the result?

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Exactly.

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Do you whiners ever stop to consider that there must be a good reason why virtually every western government provides generous benefit payments despite its obvious political unpopularity? I get that it's infuriating knowing that some will abuse the system but the reality is that the consequences of not providing benefits cost more, both economically and socially. Best just to accept that benefits aren't going to change, and get on with your own life, or stick to worrying about things we can actually change. 

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If benefits were unpopular Labour would drop them faster than you could say KiwiBuild. The whole welfare industrial complex is based on political popularity - not unpopularity!

Those social benefits of being on welfare - "For instance, the incidence of maltreatment finding was 11.3 percent in a 2010 birth cohort who had spent more than 80 percent of the previous five years on welfare. For those children who had spent no time dependent on a benefit the incidence dropped to just 0.3 percent."

Those economic benefits of being on welfare - "Projected average future years on main benefit have increased from 12.4 in 2020 to 12.8 in 2021 for main benefit clients."

"Children who have these indicators are more likely to leave school with no qualifications, spend time on a benefit, and to receive a prison or community sentence.
The greater the number of indicators a child has, the more likely this will happen. This analysis focuses on children with two or more of the four indicators (n.b. this is just one way of looking at risk.)
Poor outcomes also lead to greater lifetime government spending."

annual-report-2021-2022.pdf (msd.govt.nz)

https://www.treasury.govt.nz/sites/default/files/2016-02/ap16-01-infogr…

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What is that meant to show? Obviously kids of unemployed parents are never going to do better than kids whose parents have stable employment. The fact they do so much worse certainly doesn't suggest to me that benefits are overly generous. 

In NZ, there is no counterfactual showing outcomes for kids whose parents are unemployed and can't access benefits. However, examples of this are easy to find in the developing world and not at all pretty.

It is utterly ridiculous to suggest that benefits worsen outcomes for kids of the unemployed and unemployable, and all the authors of the papers you waste your time quoting would agree with me on that. 

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"In NZ, there is no counterfactual showing outcomes for kids whose parents are unemployed and can't access benefits". Apart from the first third of the 20th century. Back when people could read.

"If you're reading this and make it beyond the opening paragraphs, congratulations. You're regarded as functionally literate and capable of fully engaging in society.

Sadly you represent a group that numbers barely above half the population."

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/104111160/we-are-barely-func…

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I remember reading that article you linked when it was published ~5 years ago. Sadly the situation will now be significantly worse with recently published 40% truancy rates. However the article was unrelated to: "In NZ, there is no counterfactual showing outcomes for kids whose parents are unemployed and can't access benefits"

This is exactly the problem: "NCEA has drifted away from the core concepts that you still must be literate and numerate," he says. "They are getting unit standards for soft skills, not hard skills, so 'I'm finding it too difficult to do mathematics so I'll do environmental studies or I'll do something else', and they get the cross-credits so they have a capacity to learn, but they don't really have the core literacy and numeracy skills that you must have to work in an operational environment."

 

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It demonstrates we managed to have a well educated, functioning society without a welfare industrial complex.

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They're wiling to pay everybody what they want. The problem is they suddenly realize they can't afford too after realising the debt they have incurred by wasting billions on..

Advisors

Spin doctors

Cycle ways

Billion dollar PA school lunches for useless parents 

Housing

Creating a under class of homless dwellers accomodated in motels at  a million dollars a day!

Growing 1 billion trees to become  Slash. 

Green policies to save 0.02% of CO²

Bad parenting disguised as child poverdy.

Indecision based on roading, trains, education , police, health and farming back tracks.

I could go on all day

...Closing down oil and gas operations 

 

...

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https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/wallabies_otago

Culling wallabies at $153000 each...

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Just 10 more lousy wallabies and they'd have snuck under $100k per animal and maybe avoided such scrutiny.

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"The Department of Internal Affairs paid deer cullers a retainer of £7 a week, four shillings per deer tail, and three shillings and sixpence per pig. They spent long periods in the bush with supplies dropped in by fixed-wing aircraft about every four months. The lifestyle was immortalised by Barry Crump in his books, especially A good keen man (1960)"

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That's inflation for you.

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You mean the 800k people taking retirement benefit? I agree we should move the age up to 70, then 75 and keep them working

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Given the trajectory of NZ socially and economically I suspect that it is increasingly possible that NZ will become a state of Australia.  Either that or a South American style banana republic.  If things deteriorate much further I believe that many of us would sadly see this as our last and best hope.  This move by Australia may indicate that they are prepared to pursue this.  Do they want a basket case country  with strong ties and dependency on China as their, if not geographical, then culturally closest neighbor?

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NZ is not currently in a good place. It sucks. Poor leadership of recent times doesn't disguise the poor leadership from the former times, unfortunately, and with the country's education system as bad as it is good, it's hard to see things 'getting any better.'

I was once proud to be a New Zealander and was treated as such in return, when offshore many years ago. Today we are just a shadow of our former selves and with one of the 21st Century's great nations just over the ditch...

Good night.

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It is a little outdated to be, "proud to be a New Zealander". We should all just consider ourselves to be Western, part of the great hegemonic Empire of Freedom.

There will be little annoyances and bumpiness along the way but we have to keep moving forward.

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Sweeting the deal

Hello ChatGPT, is "sweeting" a word?

No, "sweeting" is not a word in standard English. The correct word is "sweating," which means the process of producing sweat or perspiration, typically as a result of physical exertion or exposure to heat.

 

 

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Poor effort by ChatGPT. 

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It matters not if Kiwis move to Australia. Australians and other nationalities are are forever wanting to come to NZ for the life style and investment opportunities. It’s unique, bush walking among non poisonous animals and insects among pristine mountains , KRoos don’t attack you, sure we have crime but like any other country….. but guns ownership not as bad as other countries like the US. Our population must be close to 5.5 m now, this is our greatest asset.  It is despite having a massive continual churn of immigrants and emigrants . This has been happening since the whalers came in the 1800s. No kiwi should be afraid of the nonsense the media puts before us. Yes some leave for OE ( like me in the 1970s) for I the occ. a “better life” where the grass is greener. We only hear the “good stories” via the media, from the cut down poppy ex kiwis who make it elsewhere. It is time for Kiwis to be staunch and love our our small but resilient country. When times get tough in other parts of the world NZ is seen as a safe haven? It’s time our Govt got some strength (to the elbow) and good policy to keep NZ for Kiwis, we don’t need to sell our lands to other nationalities ….. just lease it for strategic periods. My tank is empty atm 

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