A very sharp reversal

Currencies

Bitcoin smashes records in reverse today with eye-watering declines in a very short period

11th Jan 21, 4:59pm by David Chaston

Update: As at Tuesday, 6am, it is down to US$30,467 as the sell-off continues. The drop from the January 9 peak is now -US$11,495 or -27%.

The bitcoin price is falling fast today (Monday).

It it now at just US$33,622.

Readers will recall it peaked at US$41,962 on January 9, so the current price is -US$8,340 below that, a drop of -19.9% in just two days!

We have pointed out the extreme volatility before, but the ride for bitcoin 'investors' is getting hair-raising.

Since we reported on its price this morning, it has fallen -US$5,747 or -14.6%.

The fall comes as media reports "unstoppable record highs". The real-time, online changes are becoming extremely swift, exhibiting all the tell-tale signs of irrational frenzy.

It is a game for gamblers with deep pockets who have ice in their veins. It isn't "investment".

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125 Comments

by thebrian | 11th Jan 21, 5:17pm 1610338627

The beauty of bitcoin is there is always optimism whether it goes up or down...cant figure that out, but each to their own.

by Zack Brando | 11th Jan 21, 10:20pm 1610356816

That's very observant @thebrain

Bitcoin has been a wonderful thing, especially for young people - it's taught so many of us how to save and rewarded us for doing so. Some of the most financially literate people on Earth are 'Bitcoiners' and gained that literacy partly by going down the Crypto Rabbit Hole. What a boon for young people! If I had a kid I'd rather them be a Bitcoiner and playing round in that eco-system - having hope rather than trouble and despair.

It took decades of the brightest people standing of each-others shoulders in Computer Science, Cryptography, Finance and Game Theory for Bitcoin to be possible. Even unto the ends of Moore's Laws we had to wait.. wait until we couldn't fit (meaningfully) anymore transistors on a silicone chip - so Bitcoin mining hardware wasn't made redundant on arrival. We had to wait for internet adoption itself! lol

Bitcoin has made the digital scarce. THAT'S AMAZING! You can copy and past as many trees as you like, you can't with Bitcoin. Again, THAT'S AMAZING. The digital service always seems to get bigger than the physical version. At the LEAST, at the LEAST .. Bitcoin is digital Gold, IMO :).

I really want my friends and generation to do well and compared to what they could spend money on, this is a great option - plus an awesome learning curve.

by KH | 12th Jan 21, 9:02am 1610395326

Great parody there Zach. The bitcoin zealots won't like it.

by Zack Brando | 12th Jan 21, 10:51am 1610401861

Don't be diminishing, you know it's not a parody.

by KH | 12th Jan 21, 1:40pm 1610412049

Yep you got me. Not a parody. That is why it's so so sad.

by brisket | 11th Jan 21, 5:26pm 1610339163

This won't last, there'll be another massive upswing from the optimists. Reality hasn't hit quite yet.

by Ezy | 11th Jan 21, 6:56pm 1610344605

Yep - look back to 2017 around the same time after halving when the price dipped 20% https://i.imgur.com/GIJt5GF.png

by powerupkiwi | 11th Jan 21, 5:41pm 1610340093

It’s less an investment than insurance against the central bankers’ pile of s**t falling over.

by Hook | 11th Jan 21, 5:53pm 1610340824

It's one big scam trapping the millennials in to losing their cash, This is the ultimate "Boomers know shit and we know better" play. Gonna be fun picking up some cheap millennial assets for a song - their houses included . They thought they were "Generation Rent".. they ain't seen s@#t

by Brock Landers | 11th Jan 21, 6:36pm 1610343418

This kind of rhetoric certainly illustrates the folly of kiwi millennials putting effort into preventing the spread of covid.

The ultimate play might just be to let nature take its course on the ungrateful house hoarders during the next outbreak.

by Roger the dodger | 11th Jan 21, 6:36pm 1610343386

Wow

by Pragmatist | 11th Jan 21, 9:36pm 1610354169

I'm not sure following one crappy hot take with an even bigger one is the way i'd play it, but you do you.

by Squishy | 12th Jan 21, 8:37am 1610393861

I only read through this thread for the Boomers v.s. Millennials comments. Worth it.

by Rex Pat | 12th Jan 21, 9:24am 1610396677

It’s gold level whack a mole.

by Pusheen | 14th Jan 21, 1:20am 1610540409

I've seen those essential workers; rubbish collectors, border workers, cleaners, front line nursing staff, lab staff, supermarket staff etc. which are mostly young and fit and yip, mostly still renting. Lower wages, Pretend/skipping to use the tracer apps, when I asked about potential vaccine jabs?.. ehem it's 'not compulsory' you can opt out by legal means. Their rents keeps getting up, the pay just marginal jokes (compare to the 20% increase side of the equations) - The apathy feeling is very strong out there, so you might have a good point to raise there. Don't care, attitude - be kind & care is work on both ways traffic, watch how it's pan out when only single way traffic. NZ is at that point, Titanic sinking.. throw women & children first to sea, and let the boat for gentlemen play their musical instrument gracefully, oh don't forget the buffet. F*** them I'm fit enough to be the carrier, I survive...who cares about others, after all no one cares about us right? watch this slomo.

by rastus1 | 11th Jan 21, 5:41pm 1610340110

Btc is the biggest con of the decade. It’s great for traders but is the ultimate scam

by Doggog | 11th Jan 21, 6:19pm 1610342342

A world full of fools thinking Bitcoin is the real deal. Nothing will always be nothing. A bunch of spruikers cleaning up the stupid.

by Rosenstein | 11th Jan 21, 9:53pm 1610355189

"nothing will always be nothing" I think that's the phrase on the back of the 1USD note

by 8014 | 11th Jan 21, 11:02pm 1610359360

Quite a confident statement for a decade which is still only 1 year and 11 days old

It performed terribly in the 2010's though

by Galloleous | 12th Jan 21, 8:57am 1610395077

Time will tell us who is right friend, time will tell.

by Bugger | 11th Jan 21, 5:42pm 1610340151

There was a time when the housing market was allowed to do this. Not any more.

by Davo3636 | 12th Jan 21, 8:39am 1610393953

Good comment. Yes, the RBNZ and the government should just get out of the way.

by Zack Brando | 11th Jan 21, 5:50pm 1610340629

The sky is falling Chicken Little.. lol

I took the Orange Pill a long time ago, this is nothing to me. Bitcoin could go to $500,000 per coin.. 1 Million.. 1 Billion.. 10 Billion.. !! There is NO TOP for Bitcoin because fiat money printing has NO BOTTOM.

by Hook | 11th Jan 21, 6:03pm 1610341403

Brando the best pill you could take is maybe the Blue one - so you can run off with a big woody.. You and the rest of your mates need to learn what happens with markets - they go up and they go down.. some of us don't really care, but those are the same people who are struggling with the decision about "where do I go for a Holiday".... It's a tough life

by frazz | 11th Jan 21, 6:15pm 1610342150

Gee Hook you really think you are one smart dude huh...have another beer and fill the pathfinder up. The kids are going to eat you for lunch.

by Zack Brando | 11th Jan 21, 6:30pm 1610343013

What? Because poor people trying to put food in their mouths are glued to market movements? IMO, poor people should buy Bitcoin and escape the fiat system that's stealing from them. Each to their own I guess.

My advice; "Choose Life".

by Rosenstein | 11th Jan 21, 9:54pm 1610355286

whoa wait markets go up AND down?

by Davo3636 | 12th Jan 21, 8:40am 1610394037

They go up and down? Not the housing market mate. I isn't allowed to.

by Doggog | 11th Jan 21, 6:33pm 1610343214

Is Bitcoin only worth holding as long as their is is fiat money? Were it to replace that fiat money, we would have the ultimate system with no more booms and busts. The money in circulation solely determined by a computer algorithm. Just like the debunked gold standard.

Because a gold standard requires that money be backed in the metal, then the scarcity of the metal constrains the ability of the economy to produce more capital and grow." The money supply would essentially be determined by the rate of gold production. Dumb!

by JimboJones | 11th Jan 21, 6:45pm 1610343953

If it replaced fiat money we would have a terrible system where the value increases constantly as people buy in and as the world economy grows. Why would anyone ever spend or invest their Bitcoin if they know it will buy a lot more tomorrow? It would be deflation to the absolute extreme.

by Withay | 11th Jan 21, 7:34pm 1610346883

People won’t stop eating, paying rent, living. It would change consumer behaviour to a certain extent but I find the deflation spiral arguments more scaremongering than anything. Changing excessive consumption would be a great thing for the environment as well!

by Galloleous | 12th Jan 21, 9:01am 1610395305

Thats the point, technology is inherently deflationary. the more efficiently we can produce goods, the cheaper they should become, no?
the only reason prices have gone up is because governments have been trying to print money at a rate to devalue the currency faster than technological advancement. And look where that has got us.
It is not the amount of currency in circulation that matters, but the value of the units of the currency.

by Rosenstein | 11th Jan 21, 9:56pm 1610355367

because you could never revalue the gold now could you? Dumb!

by linklater01 | 12th Jan 21, 7:44am 1610390686

Zack Brando,

I am following these posts with interest, but almost zero understanding. I am a 75 year old long-term stockmarket investor-over 40 years in the markets- and I will stick to what I know. I wish the Bitcoiners well though i feel sure that many will get burned.

I looked at your profile and based on that I agree-you are some way yet from being an adult. It's just nonsense

by Ezy | 12th Jan 21, 10:19am 1610399943

Would be interested to know what percentages you've allocated to different assets in your current portfolio linklater01. What your hedge strategy is would also be well received. At 75 you still have a good run ahead if you're healthy, so I'd imagine it's top of mind making those assets last.

I'm a great believer in the wisdom of age and experience. But have also noticed that many who formed their world view coming of age in the 1960's rejected the wisdom of their parents to embrace a different value set. In today's environment many (not all obviously) have next to no wisdom, and are essentially bankrupt on advice for the younger generation in almost every area of life.

by Hook | 11th Jan 21, 5:45pm 1610340316

When you're a buyer @ 1000 who cares what it goes up and down by?? If you were a buyer @ 35K you might be a bit worried.. If you haven't bought at at all - it's just another bubble
Any serious investors want to swap 15oz of Gold for a 1 Bitcoin?? NO?? Thought not

by J.C. | 11th Jan 21, 5:58pm 1610341092

Well I bought today. BTC and ETH. Most people are not buying 1 Bitcoin. Most are buying sats or units of a Bitcoin.

by Hook | 11th Jan 21, 6:13pm 1610342020

Good for you. Tell us in 12 months how you get on. Gotta say, spending 40K on an invisible "asset" is pretty ballsy.. All I can say is Good Luck
Tell you what-.. I'll go 11oz's/BTC.. cash and no commission

by J.C. | 11th Jan 21, 6:23pm 1610342620

I don't think you understand. Let's say a Bitcoin portfolio has returned 200% at today's price. And assume the portfolio has been built over 100 purchases of an equal amount.

What relevance does today have on the performance of the portfolio?

by frazz | 11th Jan 21, 6:18pm 1610342287

Nobody owns 15oz of gold around here....... Hang on whats that holding the door open?

by Hook | 11th Jan 21, 6:24pm 1610342661

Tell you what.. I'll swap you 10ozs for 2 coins. Settlement in 7 days

by frazz | 11th Jan 21, 6:54pm 1610344476

So you are holding 2 coins then...deal.

by Zack Brando | 11th Jan 21, 7:21pm 1610346116

by Galloleous | 12th Jan 21, 9:03am 1610395438

Just another bubble ae, how many bubbles and Ponzi scams have you seen that have inflated and popped 5 times but keep coming back stronger every time? Stop being so closed minded and do some better research mate, your going to be on the wrong side of history, like Peter Schiff hahah

by J.C. | 11th Jan 21, 5:57pm 1610341026

It is a game for gamblers with deep pockets who have ice in their veins. It isn't "investment"

Not correct. Volatile markets like Bitcoin are perfect for dollar-cost-average investment strategy.

by Uninterested | 11th Jan 21, 7:22pm 1610346152

If you believe that then please do that.
I'm not.

by J.C. | 11th Jan 21, 7:42pm 1610347374

It's not "what I believe'. It's how the price of Bitcoin has moved over time, accepting that past performance is no indication of future performance. Furthermore, the multiple of the current Bitcoin price over the 200-day moving average is lower than any other peak in Bitcoin's history.

by Withay | 11th Jan 21, 7:31pm 1610346691

Well hey, it’s like the share market used to be before Governments would stop it from failing.

by 8014 | 11th Jan 21, 6:09pm 1610341749

And now it's USD35,500. Then in a few minutes it will be X.

Objectively tiresome. Perhaps the next article could simply be headlined "Writer writes about Bitcoin to get clicks" with the body composed of a single sentence repeating "bitcoin"a few times. It will be equally informative but, most importantly, will achieve the desired outcome in terms of web traffic.

by Hook | 11th Jan 21, 6:19pm 1610342392

Crypto currency is the current "Dotcom" bubble - there's a lot of money to be made and there's a lot of misery to be paid

by frazz | 11th Jan 21, 6:22pm 1610342527

When it going to crash then Hook..come on put a date on it...maybe a wager?

by Hook | 11th Jan 21, 6:30pm 1610343011

Obviously no one can predict the future.. crash it will. How about a small wager?.. 20ozs of platinum says BTC will reduce by 50% in 2 years?

by frazz | 11th Jan 21, 6:56pm 1610344592

How about a case of single malt- not sure what the F I can do with Plantinum? Sating that I am still owed a case of parrot dog from Shorething on Trump winning a 2nd term- seems losers on this site are not good at fronting up.

by DaveB1978 | 11th Jan 21, 8:23pm 1610349833

No need to get all bitterbitch about it. A case of dump the trump would be a better wager.

by northman46 | 11th Jan 21, 9:36pm 1610354188

Nice.

by frazz | 12th Jan 21, 9:47am 1610398043

Birdseye

by Withay | 11th Jan 21, 6:14pm 1610342051

Interest readers. I’m hoping for a little help. I think it’s finally time for me to get into Bitcoin and I’m looking for suggestions on the best NZ exchange and wallet. Any help appreciated!

by Hook | 11th Jan 21, 6:17pm 1610342244

Withay.. you missed the boat and you'll only get burnt. Stick to equities.. or collectable cars (much more fun) or buy a helicopter

by Withay | 11th Jan 21, 6:30pm 1610343054

Coincidentally have my eye on a car a consider a future classic but that’s another matter.
I intend to dollar cost average and not put a substantial amount of money in Bitcoin so no major. I’ve always liked it and see it having massive upside. Ironically I think it’s an asset that as it increases in value it gets safer and is starting to get proper traction with big players. Why couldn’t it reach golds cap?

by Hook | 11th Jan 21, 6:51pm 1610344292

Why wouldn't it reach the Gold cap... Because it's not backed by anything significant or solid. The so called "big players" are just pandering to their clients wishes.. it's complicated. For the people who believe in Crypto - more power to them. For those who don't... more power to them also. As per the "Dotcom" bubble - some made a killing.... some lost a fortune. The "Dotcom" episode is the same as the Crypto mania - lot's of hype, no substance

by J.C. | 11th Jan 21, 7:08pm 1610345324

[Old man yelling at the moon 'It's a scam I tell ya']

by Withay | 11th Jan 21, 7:26pm 1610346414

Money is pretty useful and popular and it has the same backing as Bitcoin?

by Pragmatist | 11th Jan 21, 9:43pm 1610354632

Fiat money is ultimately backed by the countries ability to tax its citizens. That's something. Bitcoin isn't.

by Rosenstein | 11th Jan 21, 10:08pm 1610356132

Ah yes, extortion. A most satisfying time tested means for storing value.

by JimboJones | 11th Jan 21, 6:38pm 1610343536

As much as I think it is a crap long term investment as I can’t see any real value, there definitely have been plenty of people made rich from it over a reasonably long period of time. Not many would have lost money as long as they held during the bad times. Of course it may one day drop to zero and never recover. But probably worth a punt if you have money to “invest”

by Hook | 11th Jan 21, 7:02pm 1610344964

Haha JJ.. the classic statement - "not many would have lost if they'd held".. That's up there with the old chestnut " it's not timing the market but time in the market" The last statement is constantly spouted by brokers etc. Invest your money yourself, take the gains and wear the losses but most of all don't waste your time with so called "managers or experts". Anyone with a bit of nouse can easily smoke the Fund Managers - they're a crock

by JimboJones | 11th Jan 21, 7:38pm 1610347115

Bitcoin has been around much longer than i thought it would, I’m prepared to admit when I’m wrong. It has been a pretty exceptional investment for many, who knows how long that will continue. I’d take a punt if I had some money that needed a home. Not too much though.

by 8014 | 11th Jan 21, 6:32pm 1610343144

Lots of exchanges on which to buy BTC, but not many accept (I assume) NZD - and far fewer will convert back into NZD on selling.

Independent Reserve + Ledger Nano (if you're after cold storage) would be a good place to start imho.

by Withay | 11th Jan 21, 6:38pm 1610343500

Great thanks! I hadn’t come across independent reserve yet so I’ll check it out.

by Anaconda | 11th Jan 21, 11:07pm 1610359624

I use easy crypto, NZ based and you pay in NZ dollars, good support. There are others but I've not tried them. When you purchase, they point you in the direction for the appropriate wallet. Good luck.

by Zack Brando | 11th Jan 21, 11:49pm 1610362186

I've used Easy Crypto, worked fine, was painless lol. Their KYC verification was fast.. less than 24 hours. You can purchase small or large amounts.

Just purchase little amounts every couple of weeks, dollar-cost-average it out. But it's always good to take an initial stake in things. Invest in what you understand and believe in - that way price movement won't give you a heart attack.

If you don't quite understand the ins-and-outs of Bitcoin, it's still ok to invest, just don't invest sooo much it keeps you up at night. A wee investment might lead to greater understanding and the kool mantle of being an early adopter - be one of the kool kids with us lol :)

I know generations above me fear looking foolish; "Remember that time Dad was into that Bitcoin thing? hahaha". lol :) Look, buy a little, play around with it, spend it .. donate it to a charity that accepts bitcoin.. send it to a kid in Africa who has no shoes, but oddly has a smart phone (you know that it's a thing! lol) give it a go. :)

If you don't like it as a store of value, investment or means-of-exchange.. you can just sell it back into fiat. I believe if you purchase Bitcoin through PayPal, you can effectively spend (the value of) your BTC wherever PayPal is accepted. I don't know much about PayPal's current offerings and I'd recommend NOT buying large amounts of BTC and having PayPal custody it for you. However a few hundred dollar held in BTC by PayPal could turn into the latest laptop via a PayPal merchant.

by Cheetahlegs66 | 12th Jan 21, 10:59am 1610402351

That advice is like "I don't understand how the sharemarket works. I might randomly throw a few dollars into a company and see how I do." Robust advice.

by Ezy | 12th Jan 21, 11:12am 1610403175

Funny, because that's exactly what the the lemmings did just before the 1987 crash. Lucky everyone understands the property market so well now, so they can chuck another million in at 2% and leverage up their portfolio.

♫♪♪ History, never repeats ♫♪♪

by Zack Brando | 12th Jan 21, 1:01pm 1610409714

A misrepresentation of what I wrote for sure.

by Galloleous | 12th Jan 21, 9:12am 1610395947

I recommend using Exodus wallet, you can install it on your PC or phone. You will have to back up your private keys somewhere safe, as if some one gets a hold of them they can take all your wallet contents. https://www.exodus.io/
Click on BTC and then then your Receive address. copy this, this is where to send your Bitcoin.
Best and easiest place to buy in NZ is at Easy Crypto. sign up, send a pic of your license and your good to go. Follow the purchase instructions then just transfer money from your bank to theirs and the BTC will turn up in your wallet
https://easycrypto.ai/?ref=2573
You can also set up an automatic buy for dollar cost averaging, but as we are at the start of a bull market i personally recommend dumping a bit in now then DCA.
Happy to answer any questions :)

by Galloleous | 12th Jan 21, 9:15am 1610396146

Also you can sell your crypto through them as well. click sell, send them the crypto and they will deposit the amount into your bank account :) easy as.
Of course they have slightly higher fees than using an exchange, but hat comes with the convenience. And not having to have your money sitting on an exchange like kiwicoin or independent reserve.

by Rosenstein | 12th Jan 21, 11:32am 1610404346

exodus also pairs with the trezor hardware wallet so you can store your coins off your device.

by Geoff | 12th Jan 21, 1:11pm 1610410309

Hi Withay,

I use a Christchurch based company to purchase and sell crypto. Bitprime.co.nz. The sell 150+ cryptos and are really good to deal with. I also hold my crypto on a Nano S stick. this is the safest way to store...also if only a small amount you might want to look at Exodus online wallet. Just ensure you save a 12 word phase that will be given, this is a backup in case things fo wrong, such as losing wallet.

by BigTed | 13th Jan 21, 10:03am 1610485417

EasyCrypto is a great NZ exchange that is listed on the NZ financial services providers register. They have good customer service and will help you out if you are a beginner.

by Ezy | 11th Jan 21, 7:15pm 1610345717

It blows my mind that people literally depend on technology for 99% of their lives now, and yet someone has finally created all the monetary tools to replace our existing corrupted system with blockchain and everyone is all, "Hrumpf, It'll never take off".

Folks, we are living through a moment in history that has never been before, will never be again, and is going to inexorably change the world as we know it. The Byzantine Generals problem has been solved, and nothing will ever be the same again.

by JimboJones | 11th Jan 21, 7:23pm 1610346217

I have never had a single issue with our existing system. Can you elaborate?

by Withay | 11th Jan 21, 7:28pm 1610346507

The gigantic inequality it creates, the erosion of people’s savings and devaluation of their work for starters.

by J.C. | 11th Jan 21, 7:45pm 1610347503

The gigantic inequality it creates, the erosion of people’s savings and devaluation of their work for starters.

Old farts at the end of their working lives don't care about monetary debasement as it usually affects them less than those starting out on their working lives.

by Galloleous | 12th Jan 21, 9:18am 1610396288

What?? Old farts at the end of their lives care the most. Their saving that they have saved all their lives and need to live on are being devalued by the day. And they have no low risk options to invest it. term deposits return a negative real rate after inflation so everyone is pushed out the risk curve into having to be an investor or stock market expert. And in the mean time, everything you want when you are retired after working hard all your life, ie luxury goods, have been going up at close to 20% per year.

by J.C. | 12th Jan 21, 12:15pm 1610406902

OK. Fair point. But if you look at the housing bubble, the young people have the rough end of the stick right now. And this has been primarily pushed by money printing and debasement.

As for luxury goods, I don't think a LVMH handbag appreciates at 20% per year. Not sure where you picked up this idea.

by frazz | 11th Jan 21, 7:30pm 1610346647

1. Central Banks printing to the moon - and Central Banks full stop
2. House prices
3. Cost of living
4. 1% owing most of the wealth

shall I keep going?

by JimboJones | 11th Jan 21, 7:48pm 1610347715

None of that is a technology issue though is it?
And Bitcoin would just make all that worse! Not that long ago you couldn’t even buy a pizza with one, now you can buy a car. I’m sure the 1% would prosper.

by Roger the dodger | 11th Jan 21, 8:57pm 1610351868

Except the new 1% will be the current group of 'hodlers'.
Pretending to be socialists concerned about equality but in reality just looking after number one.

by brisket | 11th Jan 21, 9:12pm 1610352775

Yeah, that’s what bugs me. The establishment of Bitcoin as a legitimate currency would be a staggering transfer of real wealth to a bunch of Internet libertarians. It would probably result in even worse inequality than what we already have.

by Ezy | 11th Jan 21, 9:32pm 1610353956

That's not the worst part by far. The worst part is that once people have to declare their wallet addresses, which will inevitably happen as governments capitulate, and regulate, there'll be no such thing as an anonymous transaction anymore. That's a seriously dystopian situation. But that won't probably be for another 20 years or so. In the meantime, fill your boots.

by Rosenstein | 11th Jan 21, 10:15pm 1610356516

People might not want to live in those kinds of countries.

by paashaas | 11th Jan 21, 7:31pm 1610346707

" this time it is different".

by JimboJones | 11th Jan 21, 8:11pm 1610349094

There is still trust required. You need to trust that the currency you choose (whether it be Bitcoin, Ripple, or the Jimbo coin) will still be in demand when you go to spend it. The advantage of fiat is that there is only one currency per country. The disadvantage of crypto is that there are unlimited. Maybe over time there will be a clear winner - yet at the moment everyone is betting on the one with terrible technology that could never be a global currency.

by Osty123 | 11th Jan 21, 9:52pm 1610355127

Alts are doing better for me, Look in to projects like Theta, Yip it speculative, but I have made more in 7 months than my entire managed fund portfolio has in 3 years on 10% of cash invested.

by LASSET | 12th Jan 21, 10:09am 1610399358

Literally the only people who have lost money in the last 12 years buying and holding BTC is anyone who brought for the first time in the last 4 days. If you can't recognise the long term trend by now you're simply ignoring the new reality. A 20%+ daily movement used to happen a few times a year, it's just the numbers are bigger now. If you can't handle seeing those sort of swings, this is not the asset for you. Though things have been a little less volatile of late as the market cap increases, and will continue to do so. The rise was starting to get a bit heated, so this drop is welcome to establish some support, and no surprise to anyone who's been in the market for more than a cycle. It's remarkable just how much massive buying interest there is right now on any drops though. What I would be surprised about, is if we're not above $50,000 by mid year.

by hootenany | 13th Jan 21, 8:05am 1610478328

Wrong, also people who have lost their passwords, computer, or been in a currency exchange that has been hacked

by LASSET | 13th Jan 21, 10:47am 1610488044

Yes you are correct, people who have been careless or stupid have also lost money. Just like careless and stupid people with fiat money. The only difference with fiat is careless and stupid people are often refunded by the bank. Which is paid for by all the other depositors (that's you).

Not your keys not your coin. Literally the first rule of BTC. Never leave any crypto on an exchange unless its there to sell. Be your own bank.
When your own bank, the first rule is keep your keys (password) safe. Never ever give it to anyone, never ever take a photo of it, never ever store it on a computer. Make sure you have paper / steel / shared secret backups.

The amount of security required, in alignment to the amount you have stored. You'd happily leave a $20 bill on your kitchen table, maybe even a $100 bill. You probably wouldn't leave $1000 sitting there, and you definitely wouldn't leave $100k.

by Hamish MacEwan | 14th Jan 21, 1:06pm 1610582779

"Which is paid for by all the other depositors (that's you)."

“Lost coins only make everyone else's coins worth slightly more. Think of it as a donation to everyone.”—Satoshi Nakamoto

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=198.msg1647#msg1647

by Rick.James | 11th Jan 21, 11:08pm 1610359723

People will look back in 15 years and say...

Oops I wish I had bought a little BTC & learnt more about smart contract platforms (Ethereum / Polkadot / Cardano etc) + decentralised finance (Aave / Yearn Finance / Synthetix / Uniswap etc) + Oracle's (Chainlink) + decentralised automated organisations (DAOs) in 2020... I wish I had just put a little bit of money into those tokens, and learnt how to "un-bank" myself because my bank was screwing me - and that's why they will be replaced by Fintech / DEFI...

Why not unbank yourself? Banks are making money from your money and paying you a pittance... Of course they will be disrupted (Just like those taxi drivers)

by J.C. | 11th Jan 21, 11:21pm 1610360479

Nice one Rick. Like your style.

by Rosenstein | 12th Jan 21, 11:35am 1610404521

Every dollar out of the fiat system is a vote against war and global extortion

by frazz | 12th Jan 21, 12:27pm 1610407635

Yes - power back to the soverign individual

by Anaconda | 11th Jan 21, 11:41pm 1610361684

To me it's a simple case of supply and demand. Currently 18.5 million coins available, 2.5 mil more to be mined before 2140, estimated 4 mill permanently lost. There about 49 million millionaires in the world, there are only enough bitcoin for 0.3 each, assuming all available BTC were for sale and they're not. In the last 6 months institutions, wealthy individuals, insurance companies have been buying in the hundreds of millions of dollars. You can buy via PayPal in the US and that opens up to international customers in Q2 - 350 million potential buyers. PayPal stores will offer good for sale with Bitcoin - 22 mil merchants. Demand outstrips supply by a significant amount and that's not slowing down.

by Albert2020 | 12th Jan 21, 7:45am 1610390754

This is the kind of volatility that means Bitcoin could never be a universal currency. Add the ridiculously long transfer times and the cost of mining and it’s little wonder it’s considered only a speculative investment.

by KH | 12th Jan 21, 9:14am 1610396082

Some weird and fixed beliefs showing up here. It's like the church of Bicoin with high priests Zach and esy.
And some mumbo jumbo to prop it up.
Better they got themselves a girlfriend (or boyfriend)

by Ezy | 12th Jan 21, 11:18am 1610403507

People naturally look at things they don't/can't understand as though they are magic (religion/mumbo jumbo). It's no different looking under the hood of technology. Few understand how the internet works in spite of our heavy reliance on it today. Back in the 90's the people who were excited and engaged in the internet space were called "geeks", "computer nerds" and "weirdos". The establishment laughed when it was suggested that entire industries could be disrupted by this new technology. But no one's laughing now, and the internet has eaten the world becoming a huge horizontal spanning every other vertical business in existence.

As it was then, so it is now. To understand bitcoin requires a polymath brain, with a more than arbitrary understanding of technology, finance, history, human psychology and the macro-economic environment. The Luddites resort to ad hominem attacks exposing their own fears and irrelevance in the face of the changing world order. I can understand this. I can only imagine it's awful being old, without enough wisdom to see the incoming tsunami. Desperately clinging to the flotsam of the outgoing economic paradigm as governments worldwide print trillions of dollars out of thin air crying, "THIS TIME IT'S DIFFERENT".

by Galloleous | 12th Jan 21, 11:37am 1610404634

Yea you left me off that list, sorry I have been on holiday but im back now :)

by frazz | 12th Jan 21, 12:28pm 1610407701

Has the single life going down in your Mums Basemen KH?

by KH | 12th Jan 21, 1:49pm 1610412585

Great Frazz. Bunch in Devonport with 4 others. Bit warm here now on the terrace at Stanley Point. Dinner over in the CBD with 28.
And you?

by waymad | 12th Jan 21, 10:07am 1610399245

All crypto assumes the continued existence of relatively instant international electronic comms channels. Not so sure that I'd bet the farm on That being the case.....one snip from an underwater drone on a cable or a space EMP that takes sats out, and everything from mines to wallets goes offline.....needs paper-based backup......

by 8014 | 12th Jan 21, 11:10am 1610403059

Yes, all crypto ecosystems would be wiped out - but, miraculously, banks and all other sectors reliant on the same comms channels would be unaffected. That is an interesting universe.

by Ezy | 12th Jan 21, 11:16am 1610403387

Actually not true, the banks would be completely stuffed with their centralised data-centres but bitcoin would recover pretty quickly as sat-nodes kicked into gear broadcasting the blockchain over satellite. https://blockstream.com/satellite/

by Rosenstein | 12th Jan 21, 11:38am 1610404702

8014's post was weapons grade sarcasm

by Galloleous | 12th Jan 21, 11:39am 1610404761

You can run the Bitcoin network off of dedicated satellites that have been launched by blockstream, not to mention starlink will have global internet coverage this decade. No strings holding Bitcoin back.

by youngdumbandbroke | 12th Jan 21, 3:14pm 1610417669

Maybe the Americans were onto something with space ISIS then? If someone could destroy satellites that would be a major military advantage

by AKLCrusader | 12th Jan 21, 12:55pm 1610409329

Seems like only yesterday (literally) when I read many comments that Btc was ever upwards

by Ezy | 12th Jan 21, 2:22pm 1610414566

Here's the "crash" in context for all the Bitcoin naysayers/economic experts btw. Doesn't really look like a crash at all does it? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErceZgzXYAAPtTN?format=png&name=large

Also, BTC is back up to $35K which is the ATH from

*checks notes*

last Thursday.

So BTC has been profitable for 4387/4392 days folks.

Looks like some commentators on this thread are about to get wrecked...

by Anaconda | 12th Jan 21, 3:52pm 1610419933

Last week the gain on the money I've invested into cryptocurrency 4 months ago was equal to 100 years of interest at the best rate for a term deposit I can find at a bank. After the drop its only 77 years. Should I multiply that by 3 because it's only 4 months?

by Rosenstein | 12th Jan 21, 4:01pm 1610420509

yes

by Pusheen | 13th Jan 21, 7:54am 1610477645

To mitigate future volatility for NZ BTC fans? plenty pundit works to be done to lobby local councils, govt & CB. Piggy back all activities promo to ring fencing around the F.I.R.E economy - to ensure sovereign back up!

by BigTed | 13th Jan 21, 9:23am 1610482995

"It is a game for gamblers with deep pockets who have ice in their veins." I'm flattered, makes me sound like Bobby Axelrod!

by Clementé | 13th Jan 21, 10:29am 1610486943

I would say its more eye watering increases in a very short period , but choose your narrative i guess.

by Clementé | 13th Jan 21, 10:29am 1610486944

I would say its more eye watering increases in a very short period , but choose your narrative i guess.

by Clementé | 13th Jan 21, 10:29am 1610486946

I would say its more eye watering increases in a very short period , but choose your narrative i guess.

by Pusheen | 14th Jan 21, 1:02am 1610539364

- Put money in good banks, then after your death - it can still be accessed, legal protection and all.
- Banks run a business model - gave credit and yea, sure at the moment assurances fall into housing.
- Never heard of BTC funding credit for this and that, they need to piggy back to legal based protection.
- Lost password? lost money.. whaa? so? BTC put the final trust into .. human?.. which prone to be anything.
- Mark this, after being used by criminals & 'terrorists' (albeit made up allegations)..world govt will ban it.. then bbye.