Labour hits back at National over tax claims

Labour's Grant Robertson hits back at National over tax, says cuts at this time are irresponsible, calls out Joyce for lying about Labour's intentions; Labour releases families package calculator

13th Sep 17, 3:43pm by Alex Tarrant

Labour Party finance spokesman Grant Robertson has launched a broadside back at National calling out Steven Joyce for scaremongering with his latest campaign ad, dubbed 'let's tax this.'

Robertson said National's planned tax cuts from April 1 next year were fiscally irresponsible and reckless. Read his statement below.

Labour on Wednesday also launched a 'families package' calculator to back its argument that 70% of families with children will be better off under Labour's policies than National's plan.

“Families can go to www.labour.org.nz/calculator and see how much better off they will be with Labour thanks to our Families Package," Labour Party leader Jacinda Ardern said.

“Labour’s Families Package, which we released in July, is carefully targeted to deliver for families, especially those with young kids. We want our children to get the best start in life without poverty. That’s why our Families Package includes a $60 a week Best Start payment for families with babies and toddlers," she said.

“This targeted approach means that a family on $50,000 with a new-born and a three year old with is $131 a week better off. The same family gets just $39 from National. We can do this, with a less expensive package overall, because we aren’t giving tax cuts that deliver $400m a year to the top 10 per cent of earners."

Read Grant Robertson's statement below:

It is time for Bill English and Steven Joyce to stop the scaremongering and lies, and front up to New Zealanders about the impact of their tax cuts, Labour’s Finance spokesperson Grant Robertson says.

“Bill English has no credibility on tax issues. He was the Finance Minister in a Government that increased GST after specifically ruling that out in the election campaign.

“National has introduced 18 new taxes, levies and charges, including one on the capital gain from an investment property within two years. Again, National never talked about this in an election campaign.

“Today National have an advertisement saying Labour will increase personal taxes. This is completely untrue.

“Let’s set the record straight: Contrary to National’s patently false scaremongering about income tax, Labour’s families package makes 70 per cent of families with kids better off than under National.

“What we will do is reverse the tax cuts proposed by Bill English and Steven Joyce that will see $400 million a year go to the top ten per cent of New Zealanders.

“Those tax cuts are reckless and irresponsible at a time when so many of the big issues facing New Zealand are getting worse.

“How can tax cuts be responsible when homelessness is at record levels and the OECD have said we are the worst in the world?

“How can tax cuts be responsible when hospitals are putting up the house full sign, and our mental health system is collapsing under hugely increased demand?

“How can tax cuts be responsible when our schools are so stretched that they have to ask parents for more and more money to just do the basics?

“New Zealanders know these tax cuts are wrong and that National have got their priorities badly wrong. Even the majority of CEOs in yesterday's Mood of The Boardroom said now is not the time for tax cuts.

“The reality is that after nine years of National Government the basic services that New Zealanders rely on are running on empty, and many families are being left out.

“We can be better than that and Labour has the plan to make this happen, by rejecting National's tax cuts and investing in our targeted families package and in the public services Kiwis rely on,” says Grant Robertson.

National launches campaign ad

Earlier, Steven Joyce launched National's new campaign ad, taking aim at Labour over tax:

National’s newest campaign ad “Let’s tax this” highlights the tax burden Labour would impose on hard working New Zealanders, National Party Campaign Chair Steven Joyce says.

“New Zealand’s economy is growing strongly. As a result we’re creating more permanent jobs and growing family incomes,” Mr Joyce says.

“With a strong economy we have the opportunity to meet long-term challenges as with the Prime Minister’s commitment to lift 100,000 more children out of poverty and give 80,000 more Kiwis the chance to get into their first home.

“Labour wants to stall our economic success through heaping at least seven new taxes on New Zealanders just when they’re starting to get ahead.

“New Zealand currently has a broad-based fair tax system. We simply don’t need to impose a Capital Gains Tax, Land Tax, Regional Fuel Tax, extra Income Tax, Water Tax or an Inheritance Tax. We also don’t need to bring farming into an ETS when no other farmers worldwide are included.

“Labour needs to front up and be honest about its tax agenda. It’s quite obvious they have one and they don’t want to talk about it. Real transparency is the least that hard-working New Zealanders deserve.

“Voters are becoming aware of the clear choice facing them this election. It’s between continuing to go forward with Bill English’s strong National team or backwards with Labour and its very different economic agenda.”

The new ad will be running on TV and online, and is available at: www.national.org.nz/letstaxthis

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123 Comments

by Keeppositive | 13th Sep 17, 3:52pm 1505274755

Labour are being very economical with the truth about their tax intentions. It is simply not possible to deliver the promised "lolly scramble" to buy votes as they intend and at the same time say they will not tax us all (a whole lot) more without the inevitable consequence being a hole in their budget. Joyce has been right all along. The only way there won't be a massive deficit in any Labour lead fiscal accounts is through significant additional taxes or massive borrowing or a combination thereof.

by kiwimm | 13th Sep 17, 3:56pm 1505274982

But Steven Joyce went over their books with a fine toothcomb and found nothing but an incorrect allegation

by Laminar | 13th Sep 17, 7:51pm 1505289064

Actually he went over their proposed increases and found an accounting error. Labor did incorrectly state the operating allowance line in such a way that its impossible to know the difference between operating allowances and additional spending on health and education.
Their integrated budget however adds up and so there is no missing money, just incorrect accounting practices.
That said they have not allocated additional funding for year 2 and 3 which is effectively impossible. Jacinda has clarified that they will spend more in some areas but the funds will be reallocated from things like defense.
Both Jacinda and Joyce are kinda correct and also kinda wrong but Joyces error stems from labors poor presentation of the operating allowance line item.
Still a pretty decent budget from labor in my opinion, lets us get an idea of their priorities etc.

by JimboJones | 13th Sep 17, 4:18pm 1505276331

You do remember that most of Labours spending is paid for by reallocating Joyce's tax cuts, right?
What about National's lolly scramble? Not a day goes by that they don't announce a new hospital / road / mental health spend / school / etc. Apparently none of this was feasible for the last nine years but perfectly affordable now.

by swapacrate | 13th Sep 17, 7:46pm 1505288761

Does a lolly scramble help this

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/96794388

by abnz1 | 13th Sep 17, 3:53pm 1505274834

Now this election is Truth V/S Lie

National believes in Dirty politics and people of New Zealand hopefully will not fall for that and should be able to see through it.

National has become arrogant and rightly so, as any lie or manipulation that they throw are being absorbed by people.

This election is and will be interesting. Can National fool all the people all the time.

by Foyle | 13th Sep 17, 10:19pm 1505297966

Rubbish, labour has walked into this campaign without having done their homework
-they are making up policy on the fly, introducing new taxes weekly (rather than releasing a comprehensively enumerated tax policy document) and at times not even singing from the same hymn sheet
-presented a slap-dash fiscal plan with gaping multi billion dollar funding hole, despite all their denials
-are proposing to economically persecute non-labour voting rural sector cos they are an easy target
-won't come clean over exactly what will be taxed and by how much (either through not doing the sums during last 9 years while sitting in opposition, or through deliberate obfuscation).

Anyone with even basic economics understands that raising taxes by many billions per year to pay off Labour's mates is going to have a chilling effect on economic growth and prosperity. And that is without even touching on their bad-old-days industrial relations policies.

Mouthing non-specific woolly aspirational statements and saying 'well look into it" (ie we didn't do the assignment, can we please have an extension) when asked for detail is not a sound basis for electing a government. They deserve every bit of stick they are receiving.

by the Joneses | 14th Sep 17, 7:13am 1505330016

Please outline when Labour said they will be getting billions more in taxes?

From what I could see they are looking at keeping tax revenue about the same, that is why their budget doesn't include any more income from any new taxes.

by Boatman | 13th Sep 17, 10:54pm 1505300064

abnz1 your kidding right ?

Who launched that book of lies at the last election called Dirty politics ........ all hearsay and innuendo

The only person lying through the teeth in this campaign is Jacinda

by the Joneses | 14th Sep 17, 7:09am 1505329798

Nicky Hagar releaser a book about National. What is your point?

Also please name one lie Jacinda has said.

by abnz1 | 14th Sep 17, 7:16am 1505330202

National supporters to be disapointed with this election as is for change. So give them sometime for the reality to sink in.

by Property king | 13th Sep 17, 4:03pm 1505275417

Taxing people more is grossly irresponsible at this stage of the economic cycle Grant.

by JimboJones | 13th Sep 17, 4:45pm 1505277926

By people you mean landlords and farmers and offshore water bottlers. Hardly that irresponsible...

by Keeppositive | 13th Sep 17, 5:17pm 1505279863

No - I think he means all taxpayers.

by Plutocracy | 13th Sep 17, 5:56pm 1505282160

Like a GST rise?

by Boatman | 13th Sep 17, 11:07pm 1505300855

Anyone voting for LABOUR is like a turkey voting for an early Christmas

You are going to get plucked and then slaughtered by Billy Bunter wearing red overalls and his helper with a big grin

by Macadder | 13th Sep 17, 6:00pm 1505282419

A typo there Mr P King - you meant to say
"Taxing property more is grossly irresponsible at this stage of the economic cycle Grant"

by JimboJones | 13th Sep 17, 4:15pm 1505276142

What taxes are labour proposing that will effect normal NZers? The small fuel levy in Auckland is the only one I can think of.
Otherwise the only people that will be taxed more are major water users and property investors.
National's 'Lets tax this' video couldn't really be more misleading if it tried. Is this legal?

by Foyle | 13th Sep 17, 10:28pm 1505298527

increased income tax ($1000 per year for average earner), land tax, fuel tax, tourist tax, ETS, water tax, capital gains tax, extra industrial relations charges, extra house rental costs, probably a couple more taxes before election given rate with which labour as been announcing them.

All taxes suck money out of the economy and ultimately hit everyone through reduced growth and lower incomes, to pretend otherwise is at best deceptive.

by Boatman | 13th Sep 17, 11:09pm 1505300973

@Jimojones , a fuel tax in Auckland is going to smack tradesmen and couriers and transporters ( of food for example ) which will just add to costs of doing business .

There is no way in hell that a tax like this will reduce congestion

by Property king | 13th Sep 17, 4:22pm 1505276546

I think the goose is cooked, people are starting to realise what a bunch of no hopers this Labour party really are.

Labour tried all sorts of property taxes and rent controls back in 1972, they were then voted out in one term as none of them worked and all had adverse consequences on the property market.

The current Labour government are trying to solve today's issues with 1970's type policies which failed them then and will fail again now.

Thank god the public are coming to their senses.

by JimboJones | 13th Sep 17, 4:44pm 1505277856

Maybe we should have kept their 1970's property taxes, then we might not have some of the most expensive property in the world? Probably wouldn't suit you though, would it 'property king'?

by Pharos | 13th Sep 17, 5:52pm 1505281930

Believe Mr Kirk's government actually called it a speculation tax, which was pretty down to earth in hind sight. That was of course scuttled by Muldoon along with the super-an scheme, which may have transformed, for the better, our society today. But it is difficult to summon up much credibility, when after nine years of idle time, you say before an election that you have not bothered to construct something as seriously important, vital in fact, to all NZ'rs, as a policy on taxation. How can that be omitted from a manifesto under the camouflage that it will be decided by some sort of committee, consisting of and selected by persons unknown. Politicians rate about the same as used car salesmen and lawyers in surveys of public trust. Therefore it is more than naive for any political party to think they canplay who's got the ball on a topic as serious as tax, and get away with it. And it looks like they are not getting away with it.

by Macadder | 13th Sep 17, 6:04pm 1505282667

The odds are that your goose will be rather deservedly singed albeit lightly, if Labour make the Govt benches.

by Boatman | 13th Sep 17, 11:14pm 1505301255

@macadder , given the goose to which you refer lays the golden eggs and accounts for the vast majority of our export earnings .......... why would anyone want to kill it and cook it ?

Lets not forget that farming of sheep , dairy , beef , timber and fruit is our core, its what we do , and it should be nurtured not targeted for an unspecified raft of undisclosed taxes

by damo12 | 14th Sep 17, 9:43am 1505339016

How old is this guy? Typical National supporter

by tothepoint - d… | 13th Sep 17, 4:39pm 1505277571

JACINDA ON TAX:

LET'S SCREW THIS.

by Solidname | 13th Sep 17, 5:32pm 1505280773

National on anything:

LET'S SELL THIS

by O4 normal | 13th Sep 17, 6:22pm 1505283736

Lets lie about that

by Smalltown | 13th Sep 17, 6:56pm 1505285761

National on anything - What Crisis?

Lets see on tonights TV alone - Health, Crime, Education, Chinese spying.

The news is only 1 hr so they didn't have time to cover all the crisis from Nats 9 years.

Incidentally poll done tonight on the major crisis facing Nz had Health in the high 50% level and immigration less than 10%. Cant understand that - all problems start with the monster immigration levels.

by Double-GZ | 13th Sep 17, 7:52pm 1505289174

LET'S STOP THIS
You lot stop acting like kids please! So childish.

by Ex Expat | 13th Sep 17, 8:01pm 1505289663

Let's breed this. Bill English has bred enough children to cancel out the votes of most of the rabid lefties here. That's a long term planner for you.

by swapacrate | 13th Sep 17, 8:09pm 1505290142

Says the one who only talks about DGZ and recently posted John Keys 20 mill sale, to show your area is expensive.

by blue meanie | 13th Sep 17, 8:24pm 1505291085

And claimed poor kids like to be hungry.

by Double-GZ | 14th Sep 17, 9:15am 1505337315

You're getting confused between Zachary and I.

by two otherguys | 14th Sep 17, 9:29am 1505338166

Really? Did Zachary really say poor kids like being hungry

How so like Zachary

by Double-GZ | 14th Sep 17, 9:33am 1505338429

I would never say poor kids like being hungry. I'd say they like eating KFC!

by two otherguys | 14th Sep 17, 9:38am 1505338685

That's a "gotcha" moment DGZ - you're now answering on behalf of the Zackster

by tothepoint - d… | 13th Sep 17, 8:51pm 1505292697

Indeed DGZ,

Fair point.

And apologies.

by swapacrate | 13th Sep 17, 8:07pm 1505290059

Lets bring in 70,000 immigrants a year. Not as catchy but hey marketing is not my thing.

by Eco Bird | 13th Sep 17, 10:37pm 1505299048

Wow, wow .. Jacinda is Ok with 70,000 a year as she declared on RNZ yesterday!
check your facts

by Back 2 Basics | 13th Sep 17, 5:23pm 1505280233

If we are so desperate to get $20 a week more then it just shows what's happened in the past 9 years! Why not focus on the next generation coming through with free education? Our students graduate with large debts so cannt afford a home and leave the country to pay it back! Nats offering grants towards a home, if lvr were lowered you wouldn't need the grant (And u think it's free)
I've been a national supporter for years but feel it's time for a fresh perspective it's become a bun fight with Nats scare mongering
Jacinda may lack experience but that's what advisors are there for!
Nats like neoliberalism (Thatcherism) which is the trickle down effect from the rich to the poor and privatising everything which is a big mistake

by swapacrate | 13th Sep 17, 8:14pm 1505290445

I voted for Nats 3 times, so I feel partly responsible. Key suckered me in.

"If we are so desperate to get $20 a week more then it just shows what's happened in the past 9 years! Why not focus on the next generation coming through "

That would take empathy and caring. People need to focus on labels its more important to be seen with the right things, and live in the right places.

by meh | 14th Sep 17, 11:30am 1505345443

National like neoliberalism which is the trickle up effect from the poor to the rich and privatising everything which further enhances the trickle up effect. Labour also like neoliberalism (they introduced it) as it gives them a point of difference from National (redistribution) otherwise they're all from the same cloth.

I am yet to see any political party outline a vision for where they want to lead our country to. An overall picture that we the people can align with. Without this, mere policy tinkering will never achieve the desired result if no one knows what we're aiming for.

Therein lies the problem. We the people have no united vision for what we want our country to look like, what conditions we want to live in. We are allowing ourselves to be led blindly instead of leading ourselves.

Without a vision of what we want OUR future to look like how can we possibly implement the best actions/policies that aid us in achieving it.

by i am not a nimby | 13th Sep 17, 5:28pm 1505280507

The choice ahead is clear as clear can be. On one side we have English--has resposible economic management - no different from how you run a household budget-work to earn and if you want to spend more, try and earn more so be able to spend more -- work harder as hard work never killed anyone. National has created a lot of jobs in the last 9 yrs and proposes to carry on doing so which in turn grows family incomes. The alternative is introduce 7 new taxes and spend up large. I heard someone complaining that national introduced a new tax which they did not disclose prior to last election--taxing capital gains on sales of houses within 2 years--this is far better proposition than to propose 7 new taxes (and lots of vague management plans plus proposals to solve some serious problems by xmas 2017, again with half cooked ideas) to give a hiding to people who work hard to save and hopefully spend to create more jobs and which increase incomes for families. No doubt we could have some newer unwanted events like the GFC or may be hurricane Harvey --I would hate to have an incompetent chief to steer the economy and Its not too difficult to see which party would be better for NZ Inc. Go Billy Go.

by Solidname | 13th Sep 17, 5:32pm 1505280730

Completely agree with your closing statement, please Go Billy Go, as far away as is humanly possible.

by Grant A | 13th Sep 17, 9:50pm 1505296230

And National electioneered last election on its unpopular asset sales strategy. It had the balls to do so and its transparency on that most unpopular issue still got it elected. Labour has had nine whole years to come up with a tax policy yet it hides behind the TWG because it is not prepared to be honest with the taxpayers who will have to pay it.

by blue meanie | 13th Sep 17, 8:28pm 1505291293

You raised your tenants rents lately? You do exactly what you accuse Labour of intending to do... maybe one day you'll see the irony.

by Eco Bird | 13th Sep 17, 10:44pm 1505299451

Labour will lose the election if they come clean and reveal their tax plan - they know very well they won't stand a chance - so instead they got aggressive and nervous ...
The Goose is in the slow cooker - another 11 days and will be ready to eat ...

by Ex Expat | 14th Sep 17, 9:44am 1505339052

I suspect that Goose is Pukeko-chewy if it's as angry as the lefty posters here. Give it another 3 years on the back burner.

by bugsmilo | 13th Sep 17, 8:13pm 1505290426

I don't know about more jobs my partner been out work for over 2 years when he applies for jobs he either too old and he still has at least 20 years of working life in him. Or he speaks the wrong language as jobs in his field are asking for mandarin speaking there even jobs asking for hindi prefer. (Please note due to my partner having money saved for a house he is not on a benefit) There won't be seven new taxes as National applies that just pure lies. They are looking at Property but will only implement it if it will have the desire effect to reduce demand then this not going to be on the family home. The Water levy is bringing the farmers in line who use excessive water. but that levy will go back into helping the water ways. An the other is letting councils to be able to use a regional fuel tax to pay for infrastructure in the Region. So it will be council that will make that decision. Only reason we got through the GFC was we had small debt when National come in and Ironically the Earthquake in Christchurch help our productivity because we had to build, but unfortunately put us further into debt.

by THE MAN 2 | 13th Sep 17, 5:40pm 1505281206

Jeez, some people are easily sucked in by BS!
Why on earth should everyone get free tertiary education at the expenses of people who pay taxes.
The ones who are currently paying for their education should be pissed off if they are walking around next to students who are getting it for nothing!!!!
Where the hell are all these extra tutors that are required going to come from?????
Where the hell are all these extra students going to park, as it is very poor already in christchurch!
Where are all these graduates going to get jobs once they have graduated???
It is going to put a huge strain on the taxpayer with the cost and this is just one of many stupid things that have been said by Labour over the past couple of weeks or so.
Promises promises without any thought of the consequences!
Socialism is ripe in the Labour Party and hopefully there are enough people with enough senses to see that propping up the lower socio at the expense of the average kiwi is not going to go down too well.
The saying that everyone deserves to own a home is blatant BS when many don't deserve it!!

by Macadder | 13th Sep 17, 6:16pm 1505283383

Your comments sum up why you should be taxed a bit more. "Lower socio" as you scornfully quote is in fact the new average. The expense you wish to avoid will knock on your door in time, either as social upheaval or more civilly as a request to pay your share.

by Sluggy | 13th Sep 17, 6:40pm 1505284834

Lord and Executioner ?

You know what amazes me from both sides of the spectrum, is the inability of either of the major parties to DIRECTLY deal with the problem of housing demand in this country. And the fact we are so economically reliant on an unproductive asset marketplace to keep the band playing.
All the crap being spouted by both parties to distract from the elephant in the room is beyond amazing.

Your bollocks about the less fortunate than you is just case in point of the social problems this country and the developed world need to deal with.

by JimboJones | 13th Sep 17, 7:31pm 1505287917

Why should everyone get a free education? It's called investment. Something national has done very little of. Hence there has been very little gain in productivity in 9 years. I'd like to see who is going to be paying tax to pay your super if we have a whole lot if uneducated people trying to compete with robots for jobs. I guess we can just get robots to sell houses to each other.

by Boatman | 13th Sep 17, 11:17pm 1505301474

Labour are only offerring first year free ................ and most of them will fail and drop out , so its a once off expense

by bugsmilo | 13th Sep 17, 9:28pm 1505294936

The Man 2 you really are an angry man. You do realise that Bill English Education was Free. Even my first two years of study costed me no more that $1000 for my fees, text books and stationery and I was able to get holiday work which paid for it. Then I went work full time and study part time and work paid for my fees when I passed that when the fees started going up in 1989 the first year of 150.00 per paper then following year 300 per paper I think the by the time I finished it gone up to $600 per paper.

by imhenry | 14th Sep 17, 10:29am 1505341743

What's your point, Really

by swapacrate | 13th Sep 17, 8:25pm 1505291104

"The saying that everyone deserves to own a home is blatant BS when many don't deserve it!!"

Why??????

Auckland has 1.6 million people, nearly half of NZ, the house prices are 10 times income. The average price is above 900K. Why dont people in Auckland deserve a chance to buy property.

Yeah I have heard the argument of buy somewhere else, but its 1.6 mill people. Its a city that relies on people to do work and create business. 1.6 million people just cant pack up and leave. Maybe the odd person can but not 1.6 million. There are a lot of people who earn over 100K but still struggle in NZ, how is this right, this is fundamentally nuts.

House prices need to drop, immigration needs to drop. These are the biggest taxes on people at the moment. Our hospitals are struggling https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/96794388 under the weight of immigration and the lack of investment in infrastructure. NZ is FUBAR, with national as government.

by Foyle | 13th Sep 17, 10:37pm 1505299040

Auckland actually has only about 1/3rd of NZ's 4.6 million population. There are many other cities with houses half the price or lower that people can move to if they can't afford it. Disposable incomes are also higher in many other parts of NZ, so to stay in Auckland is a lifestyle choice that many would be better off reconsidering.

by Eco Bird | 13th Sep 17, 10:48pm 1505299715

lol, your analysis is painfully simple mate !!

by PocketAces | 14th Sep 17, 7:36am 1505331401

Think you will find it is "everyone deserves a home" I don't think that means everyone deserves to own one, with better tenancy laws, a renter should be able to call where they live home, not just a rood over their heads. Otherwise, spot on in my eyes

by i am not a nimby | 13th Sep 17, 6:21pm 1505283694

Hey The Man 2-- money is going to come from 7 new taxes and which is likely to bring the jobs and with it the economy down. They had a policy in USA prior to GFC which was to ensure every one who wanted a house to buy had easy access to funding. Go Billy Go for another 9 and a bit more.

by JimboJones | 13th Sep 17, 7:32pm 1505287970

7 new taxes? Name them please?

by imhenry | 14th Sep 17, 10:31am 1505341892

How many times do you want them spelt out

by the Joneses | 13th Sep 17, 7:32pm 1505287970

National has implemented an average of six new taxes per term over the last three terms. Now he is promising that there will be no more. If you can believe him, he has a track record of lying. I don't recall him talking about new taxes the other elections, but he did as he liked during the terms. That is the thing about our democracy, once they get in power they can do as they please, so long as they have the numbers. What you have to vote on is who you trust more to make NZ a better place. National have shown themselves time and time again to be deceitful. Unless you are a well off property speculator or a farmer, I have no idea why you would vote for them again. They are not on your side.

by Noncents | 13th Sep 17, 6:21pm 1505283698

They are all lying, they just try and hide behind technical definitions of the word.

National are throwing unsubstantiated accusations.
Labour refuse to elaborate.

Both are clearly untrustworthy.

by THE MAN 2 | 13th Sep 17, 7:16pm 1505286995

Macadder,
You haven't answered a single one of my questions, except to say that I should pay more tax!!
Exactly the reason the system that Labour will not work.
If the people that pay the tax have to pay more tax, they will quickly get the stitch.
What would be the point of doing anything beneficial to the country if they are going to be left with less in their hand than the ones who Labour want to benefit from my increased taxes!!!

by JimboJones | 13th Sep 17, 7:37pm 1505288247

Well unless you are going to be using a lot of water or driving in Auckland I don't think you will pay any more tax other than capital gains. And to that I say why shouldn't you pay tax on your profits just like I have to pay tax on my income?

by Macadder | 13th Sep 17, 9:02pm 1505293330

Yes you should pay more tax, and I'm pretty confident you pay way less than I do. In addition I would be happy to pay a bit more tax, if the social investment leads to a better health care system, better education and a better environment. Life is not just about striving for ones own material needs.

by the Joneses | 14th Sep 17, 7:28am 1505330920

Being a landlord is not beneficial to the country.

by THE MAN 2 | 13th Sep 17, 7:35pm 1505288155

Jimbo-jones, I am not relying on getting superannuation, as we have taken responsibility of looking after our future, which is what everyone should be aiming to do.
No everyone isn't capable but everyone is capable,of working and therefore not reliant on the country.

by JimboJones | 13th Sep 17, 7:44pm 1505288663

well not everyone can get themselves in a position to not need super. We can't all make money from rental houses, otherwise there would be no one renting. If you think investing in the future is not a good idea just because you are loaded and old then you are even more greedy than I guessed.

by blue meanie | 13th Sep 17, 8:38pm 1505291893

JimboJ. Look at the irony, landlords rought their tenants every six months by upping their rent, even though salaries haven't moved in 9 years. Then the same people who are taking every cent they can from their hardworking tenants, cry foul because they'll have to pay tax. It's the same economics they tirade against Labour for, but in their self entitled minds, they deserve it.

by Nimbo | 13th Sep 17, 8:05pm 1505289934

Reccomendations from the previous tax working group - https://www.victoria.ac.nz/sacl/centres-and-institutes/cagtr/pdf/tax-re…

6 The most comprehensive option for base-broadening with respect to the taxation of capital is
to introduce a comprehensive capital gains tax (CGT). While some view this as a viable option for base-broadening, most members of the TWG have significant concerns over the practical challenges arising from a comprehensive CGT and the potential distortions and other efficiency implications that may arise from a partial CGT.
7 The other approach to base broadening is to identify gaps in the current system where income,
in the broadest sense, is being derived and systematically under-taxed (such as returns from residential rental properties) and apply a more targeted approach. The majority of the TWG support detailed consideration of taxing returns from capital invested in residential rental properties on the basis of a deemed notional return calculated using a risk-free rate.
8 Most members of the TWG support the introduction of a low-rate land tax as a means of funding other tax rate reductions.

by Eco Bird | 13th Sep 17, 10:54pm 1505300083

that looks like the report of the Looter's Working Group ...

by Property king | 13th Sep 17, 8:13pm 1505290419

The 1973 speculation tax caused builders to go out of business, property traders became investors as there was no incentive to sell as you were taxed 90% on gains if you sold within a year; then there was a massive price boom due to an enormous shortage of property. Prices trebled in Auckland in 3 years and they had to get rid of the tax.

Labour lasted 3 years for good reasons, they were hopeless.

by swapacrate | 13th Sep 17, 8:37pm 1505291830

Is NZ the only country in the world that has looked at CGT.

"Prices trebled in Auckland in 3 years and they had to get rid of the tax."

So lets say if a house was worth 600K in 2009 and is worth 1 million in 2017, then would you say that the goverment that has presided over that type of increase are hopeless.

Then by your criteria I would say you are absolutely correct. Labour were hopeless in 1973, National are hopeless now. Im not sure about you, but its now that worries me not 1970.

Aaah but you are called property king, hmm wonder who you will vote for.

by Property king | 13th Sep 17, 8:43pm 1505292224

Under Labour prices went up 104% from 2002-2007.

by vl1975nz | 13th Sep 17, 9:40pm 1505295615

Liked : Do Not Vote For Liars....... It Only Encourages Them

https://thestandard.org.nz

by Eco Bird | 13th Sep 17, 10:56pm 1505300218

Exactly, Under labour's watch and immigration doors were wide open at the time too ...

by swapacrate | 13th Sep 17, 11:53pm 1505303624

This may be true, which is a reason I dont trust labour on immigration, but I do trust WP on immigration. Now if Adern keeps to her 20-30000 reduction and WP holds her to account then this sounds like a perfect scenario for me. Or at least better then National who says we need more truck drivers and doesnt see a problem.

by the Joneses | 14th Sep 17, 7:32am 1505331173

Lol, Nationals call at the moment is we need more immigrants to build more houses... Pity most we bring in are not builders, and even the builders would need to build their own place first if they are going to stay permanently.

by philthy | 13th Sep 17, 11:57pm 1505303870

Ah the mind of a property investor, surely the most selfish type of person history has ever known.

by swapacrate | 14th Sep 17, 12:24am 1505305479

My maths may not be good, but 100% of 300K is 600K. Granted 600K is not great from 300K, but prices are now 1 million. Lets take that in a bit, the average price of a house in Auckland is 1 million dollars. Unbelievable.

Just because Labour were crappola and prices went up 100% doesnt mean National are not crappola. It just means that if we keep National in, we will get more of the same. With rampant immigration education rorts, money laundering. If National were so good, then why have they extended what labour did. Why didnt they fix the problem. Maybe their fix is not making a 600K property worth 1.2 mill. Well done National.

Maybe Labour have learnt there lesson, if National dont get in maybe they will learn their lesson for next election. But if we dont hold governments to account for mis managing NZ how will any government know.

by Boatman | 13th Sep 17, 11:02pm 1505300562

TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX AND MORE TAX

Does Labour have anything else to offer other than TAX AND SPEND ?

by J.C. | 14th Sep 17, 12:11am 1505304665

The only countries in the world that make you "believe": you're not paying tax are either oil producers or offshore finance. Whether you like it or not, even these countries have some taxes.

If you really don't want to pay taxes, you need to live in the wild. Sorry to say, but that's the price of living in societies with public institutions. If the wilds are not your thing, you could join ISIS and you won't have to pay tax.

by the Joneses | 14th Sep 17, 7:37am 1505331420

Rant Rant Rant Smear smear Smear.... does Boatman have anything useful to add to the conversation? Or is he backing Nationals smear negative campaign and unfounded fear mongering.

by Boatman | 13th Sep 17, 11:20pm 1505301625

I find it astonishing that Aucklanders complain about house prices .

Anyone looked at house prices in Sydney recently ?

And their wages are not that high and their income taxes are a lot more over there

by swapacrate | 13th Sep 17, 11:55pm 1505303712

Well if you lived in Sydney you could complain about Sydney prices. But if you live in Auckland you complain about Auckland prices. Simple really.

by Boatman | 13th Sep 17, 11:50pm 1505303456

I once ended up in hospital requiring emergency surgery ( on New Years Eve) , and the service was magnificent . I had surgery at 9.00 pm was discharged to next afternoon and the District Nurse came round to see me every day for nearly a month ... and that was in Auckland

This year in January my son ended up in the Whakatane hospital , and the treatment he got was exemplary

I find Jacinda's story just unbelievable and if it true they wanted to throw an 85 year -old out at midnight , then someone should be held accountable and DISMISSED .

IF ITS TRUE ............... WE SHOULD BE OUTRAGED .

We simply have to know the back-story to this and details of who is responsible for doing this in the Waikato DHB .

This is just unacceptable irrespettive of who it was , we dont do things like this in New Zealand

by philthy | 13th Sep 17, 11:55pm 1505303722

You clearly live in a tiny little dreamland bubble of what life is really like.

by Ex Expat | 14th Sep 17, 8:32am 1505334764

Mother in law was helicoptered into Waikato for emergency surgery that saved her life. She had no complaints. Just another data point.

by nymad | 14th Sep 17, 8:41am 1505335281

Awesome.
I'm happy for her.

I tend to believe the announcement by Waikato Hospital yesterday that it is over capacity and has postponed all non essential services.
So, if it's a prioritised emergency (such as your mother in law's), it should be okay.
If you have kidney stones or similar though, strap in for an extra week of agony.

by Ex Expat | 14th Sep 17, 9:10am 1505337038

So do I, given my Father has had his surgery postponed in another region. He doesn't begrudge his wait and neither am I upset that one relative with bowel cancer and my age don't make me eligible for a public funded colonoscopy. Private costs for the test are $4,000 for the two hour test. To me it just highlights that there has to be a point where the tax payer can't pay and I am past that point.

by nymad | 14th Sep 17, 9:19am 1505337587

I commend you then, Expat.
Your sentiment is not shared by all those who want tax cuts, however. They will be dumbfounded by the fact that the public purse cannot pay for their procedures.

by Ex Expat | 14th Sep 17, 9:31am 1505338269

BTW: I'm reading that the Hospital didn't discharge Taxinda's Grandfather. He had nowhere to go so refused to leave and they put him up for the night.

by philthy | 13th Sep 17, 11:54pm 1505303663

If the nats were as good at running the country as they are at scaremongering and lies the country would be 10 times better off.

by swapacrate | 13th Sep 17, 11:56pm 1505303799

Lies, Damn Lies and National.

by i am not a nimby | 14th Sep 17, 6:24am 1505327074

Above is great debate re who should we let in to lead us. hope it cleared some, if not all, the doubts.
Bills the winner.
Why?
Bill will not overburden the average kiwi with unwanted taxes. He will manage with minimum taxes so average kiwi job creators (these are our plumbers, electricians, landscapers, small business owners, house/property flippers, etc etc.) do not have to cross the ditch and head off to Aussie. I deliberately added house flippers as they add value to our economy (Flippers are regarded by some as profit seekers and just that). They are ,unfortunately, not seen to hire the electricians, plumbers etc to renovate and sell at a profit and add to Bills tax bag but this seems to be an issue with labour as they complained that Bill introduced a NEW tax (unannounced prior to last election) -capital gain on investment property within 2 years. This is called effective management of our economy to address challenges of the day rather than worrying if it will get him votes at next election. Bills is far from proposing to TAX, TAX, TAX and keep looking in that direction to fulfill any and all spending needs. We need to be prudent and thats what National will continue to do and at the same time will continue to give a supporting hand to the really needy only.
The alternative from the main opposition is to tax up with no specifics but just a "vision". They proposed "stop foreigners from buying by Christmas". Who is fooling who? - cannot do this without renegotiating some trade deals. BTW, the trade deal with China was accomplished by Labour. Is a good deal but none of those involved are with current labour leaders.
GO Billy GO.

by vl1975nz | 14th Sep 17, 7:50am 1505332221

Billy will GO.

Deja Vu.

by the Joneses | 14th Sep 17, 7:50am 1505332226

The discussion above is the status quo property investors seeing the writing on the wall for their comfy early retirements based on their renters incomes and untaxed capital gains.

They really don't want to be taxed fairly on their wealth gains and have to contribute back to society like wage earners do. And they see runaway property prices as a good thing as they own the properties. They are deliberately oblivious to the degradation of living standards of the average Nzer.

by accountingsoft… | 14th Sep 17, 7:07am 1505329621

IS new zealand ready for wait for it.....COMMUNISM ....http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11921804

by the Joneses | 14th Sep 17, 7:56am 1505332583

You mean the actual communist Chinese Mp in National?

by delboy | 14th Sep 17, 8:19am 1505333950

Great article which every voter should read. Aside from Labours tax and spend plan their employment policy is particularly concerning, "The Employment Relations Authority with "assistance from unions and employers" will issue decrees setting wages and conditions of work for a sector of the economy."

So I read this as some union boys turning up at the local plumbers workshop and with "assistance" from the owner set the wages for all his staff.

by Property king | 14th Sep 17, 8:36am 1505334969

SOME QUESTIONS FOR JACINDA TO ANSWER
( Comment: These questions refer to the Proposed 5 year “Bright Line” test)
********************************
1. Granny dies and wills her house to her three adult children who don’t live at home.
They want to sell right away as they are all poor and they need the money.
As it’s not their family home who pays tax under the 5 year Bright Line test?
Or do they have to wait 2-3 years for a Government committee to decide?

2. A couple separate, sell the family home, and each buys a home to help with sharing the children.
Which one is the family home and which one is not?
Who pays tax under the 5 year Bright Line test if one of them sells within 5 years?
Or do they have to wait 2-3 years for a Government committee to decide?

3. Three children inherit an investment home that’s in a trust and they are the beneficiaries.
Two children want to buy the third one out as the third one needs the money to buy their first home.
Who pays tax under the 5 year Bright Line test: the beneficiary who gets paid out, or the Trust, or all of them?
Or do they have to wait 2-3 years for a Government committee to decide?

by two otherguys | 14th Sep 17, 10:11am 1505340717

Answers:-

1. No tax to pay. Inherited property is divested at market price on probate date and immediately sold - no profit

2. No tax to pay - it's the family home

3. The Trust pays the tax - providing the property is purchased and divested inside 5 Years

by nymad | 14th Sep 17, 8:42am 1505335376

I have a question for you - what happens under the 2 year bright line test?

by THE MAN 2 | 14th Sep 17, 9:07am 1505336820

Sorry but could someone explain what a 5 year brightline test is please.?
If Labour brings in a capital gains tax does it mean that providing you don't sell inside 5 years then there won't be a capital gains tax payable???
Seems very Mackey Mouse to me but that is what we seem to be getting from them on everything.
Jacinda wants to get the Pike River men out, which is great, however is she prepared to go,into the mine just like Winston Peters was prepared to do!
She continues to shoot from the hip without much thought for any consequences.
Jacinta wasn't blaming the WAikato Hospital Board for supposedly wanting to send home her 85 year old father at 11.30p.m!
So she thinks it was the National Party fault then?
She really hasn't got a clue.
No substance at all from Labour except BS and hopefully the thinking people out there can see this before Saturday week!

by nymad | 14th Sep 17, 9:09am 1505336998

You are a property investor and don't know what the Bright Line test is?

by Double-GZ | 14th Sep 17, 9:13am 1505337218

If you flip your house within 5 years of buying it then you are subject to a CGT.

by two otherguys | 14th Sep 17, 9:17am 1505337426

I think you are lying

Are you 100% sure it applies to the family home

by two otherguys | 14th Sep 17, 9:15am 1505337345

The subtlety of the paid for stooges - "If Labour brings in a capital gains tax"

News Flash especially for you - National brought the Capital Gains Tax in

by President of P… | 14th Sep 17, 10:49am 1505342983

mini news flash - you mean the bright line test.
There has already been for many many years a capital gains tax that applied if the property was purchased with any intention to make money. So any talk of capital gains tax circling now are for non intended capital gains - like a tax on lotto really....
President of Property

by bigblue | 14th Sep 17, 1:23pm 1505352231

The Nats introduced the two year bright line capital gains tax - if you buy and sell an investment property within two years you pay tax at your personal tax rate. Labour are simply extending the timeframe to 5 years. If you buy an investment property with the intention of selling within 5 years then are you really an investor? I doubt many true "property investors" would have a problem with the Nats BCGT being increased to 5 years. It will certainly worry the specuvestors - tough!

by Keeppositive | 14th Sep 17, 9:17am 1505337432

Taxinda has been hoist by her own petard. Excellent article in Herald this morning has exposes the truth about Labour and Taxinda http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11921804
Taxinda and Robertson love the idea of redistribution. To redistribute more you need to tax more. To tax more undermines confidence and impetus in the economy. Net result is redistribution of a higher proportion of a smaller cake. That what we wold face under Labour.

by Smalltown | 14th Sep 17, 9:25am 1505337953

That was an opinion piece by an ex politician once known as Mad Dog Prebble.

Hardly balanced, unbiased reporting by the Herald.

by philthy | 14th Sep 17, 1:08pm 1505351321

Yeah prebble, there's a guy that 99% of the country are in their best interest to vote for the complete opposite of what he recommends.
He looks after the 1% and nothing else.

Thanks prebble for making your small minded opinions known, now we know what to avoid - and it's National.

by two otherguys | 14th Sep 17, 9:45am 1505339145

At the rate deliberate mis-information is being sprayed around, Jacinda will be lucky if she can find any eminent person willing to put their hand up and serve on her Tax Working Group

It is a toxic poisoned chalice already

Who in their right mind would willingly serve? - Their reputation would be tarnished forever

by philthy | 14th Sep 17, 1:03pm 1505351037

How long will this country be held to ransom by property investors?
They are relatively small in numbers, but vocally way out of proportion, surely this small but extremely selfish bunch of people are the biggest drag on the NZ economy there has ever been.

by Didge | 14th Sep 17, 1:21pm 1505352064

Yes, I suspect that their negative public relations effect on National will be noted and regardless of whom gets elected vulture wings will be clipped.

by T Ronald Dump | 15th Sep 17, 12:24am 1505391876

They have time on their hands - and spend it loudly and repetitively scorning and scoffing at the mention of paying their way (while the rest of us are out working and paying tax on our income)
What on earth did they do all day before the election run-up? Oh yeah, hung around property auctions, back-slapping each other for profiteering or for pushing prices out of reach for the deserving buyers.

by bigblue | 14th Sep 17, 1:19pm 1505351963

Would you rather have a $2.80 per day tax cut and a National Govt that have achieved sweet FA in the last 9 years continue in power or a fresh new approach from Labour. It is time for a change - Let's do this NZ.
ps I am in the $200,000 plus income bracket - I do not need a tax cut. Would prefer to see the damage done by the Nasty Nats to the education, health, police sector reversed. I would like to see action on the Housing Crisis, our rivers cleaned up and yes tax the hell out of our Chinese water bottling exporters!