People hopefully getting the message on housing, Finance Minister Joyce says; Notes interest rates set to rise, Auckland house prices high and starting to fall; Some demand measures but supply the big issue

People hopefully getting the message on housing, Finance Minister Joyce says; Notes interest rates set to rise, Auckland house prices high and starting to fall; Some demand measures but supply the big issue

The government hopes the message that interest rates are set to rise and that Auckland house prices are high and may have topped is seeping through, Finance Minister Steven Joyce said Tuesday.

Speaking in Wellington, Joyce noted that Auckland house prices had come off 2.4% over the last six months. A pleasing sign from recent comments on the housing market was that New Zealand prices were not expected to rise much further than they are now, he said.

“Hopefully the message has started to get to people,” he told delegates from the Institute of Public Administration New Zealand in Parliament.

Joyce reiterated an earlier warning that home buyers should prepare for higher interest rates. Those thinking they could just about afford a house now should factor in rising interest costs, he said.

Meanwhile, Joyce acknowledged the government did have to look at the demand side of the housing market. He noted efforts made to date, such as the introduction of loan-to-value ratios by the Reserve Bank. However, these types of measures have short-term time frames and can create market distortions, he said.

Supply was “a very big issue,” he said. The response was not down to just government or local government or developers to look at separately, he said. Those involved had to work together as “nobody is used to 20% year-on-year” residential construction growth.

Prime Minister Bill English on Monday fired a shot across the bow of local councils, calling on them to apply to the government’s $1 billion housing infrastructure fund. It appeared councils did not have projects ready to go, although they were “sharpening their pencils” after talks with the government.

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11
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People are also hoping that this election national will go and NZ will see a change in government.

People too are hopefully FM Mr Joyce.

Change is the need of the time. As one of the reader of interest.co.nz rightly commented that policies of denial, lie and manipulation has to GO.

How true.

More important than a change, I'd rather have a government with the balls to make the hard changes - if national are prepared to do so then great.

Absolutely this.

Don't personally have a problem with 90% of what National have done while in government but they really have let themselves down w.r.t. housing and their steadfast refusal to admit to a demand-side issue being present too.

The problem is, their solution will be to stall as long as possible.

They'll be talking about commissions, working groups, other talk fest to "consider the wider options", and three years later they'll tell the public once again that they're honestly running as fast as they can to do something and only need to be elected another term and they can get it done.

I reckon the only honest thing National's leaders have said about this is "We don't want to see house prices come down". That should be enough to tell any young person that a vote for National is a vote to rent till they die.

And who on earth would replace national Reena? The rest are complete muppets!!!

Complete muppets replacing total muppets, yeah could work

13
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Wow! If you really needed confirmation that the bubble has burst this would be it. A leading member of the serial denial club has broken ranks.

"Investors" the sign on the one-way street has been turned around. Not long now before even the Herald wakes up!

A true blemming politician... amazingly during election year, National changes their tone on Demand pressures....

They had to, otherwise they would get eatten alive in the election, as this is going to be the number one issue. Even if house prices don't drop, people would be foolish not to heed the warning.

18
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I am going to get slaughtered for this remark , but maybe we need a recession to get things back down to earth.

Nah, I agree. It's just the deniers who don't. Problem is that Labour is firmly in the deniers camp. Joyce is singing a vastly different tune to others in the National part, but he'd get stomped on hard if there wasn't at least tacit support for his position. For years we have been discussing the options of a soft or hard fall and acknowledging that the longer it takes to get here the harder the fall will be.

Actually, I agree, Boatman. Your idea's not as outrageous as it might seem. The problem is that it's the 'lower end' of the population (including many potential FHBs) that suffers during recessions. Lose their precarious jobs, victims of cost-cutting, small business going bust, etc.
I think the only ones who will win (as far as house buying goes) are those with recession-proof high-paying jobs, or those who have a lot of cash waiting, and are able to hang onto it during a downturn.
I am quite pessimistic these days that prices will ever return to a sensible median wage multiple in the near or even medium term, and that a recession will probably not solve the problem, as income reductions and stresses will also drag many potential FHBs back from being able to secure a buy.
Anyhow, politically, housing is a tree containing a nest of FIRE ants; no-one wants to either prune it or cut it down, for fear of being bitten.

@boatman - No you won't get slaughtered on Interest.co.nz's comments section.

The one who will get slaughtered is me :)

I will be the first one to say here that your remark calling for an recession is ridiculously wrong and assumes housing is number one issue our country faces at the moment. Child poverty, Family Planning, Drug abuse, Crime...?

How will a recession help with those issues and more?

I think housing is probably the biggest social / financial issue this country currently faces. A significant proportion of the other stuff you've listed actually stems from people being impoverished by housing / rent costs.

Are you sure its such a direct co-relation as you say Plutocracy?

Were these issues non existent or very low when the house prices and rents were much lower or in parts of the country where house prices and rents are lower?

Is poverty worse when you have less, or more, money to spend on food, clothing etc.?

Hmmm....let me just grab my slide rule, I'm sure we can work this out somehow...

Is poverty worse when you have less, or more, money to spend on food, clothing etc.?

Hmmm....let me just grab my slide rule, I'm sure we can work this out somehow...

If there was a recession or a major bubble burst, can you image the foreign investors that would come in and gobble up our cheap stock (our cuz-eez across the ditch would be in that group). What we need (it has been mentioned before), is a foreign house purchase tax 30% or even 40% - applies to existing stock only, this tax collected can then offset our local council contributions for developers and locals wanting to build - everyone wins, of course the tax wouldn't apply to new builds purchased by foreign investors.

Why should the whole economy suffer because of the greed in the housing market.This was so avoidable if the right policies had been introduced.

17
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Still nothing on the Herald about house prices falling in Auckland. They're just posting shit about properties in the grammar zone being worth $2m.

Ignoring the pretty newsworthy numbers about price drops is despicable.

Aren't they more of a tabloid and property rag these days though?

It would seem that way.

Picking and choosing what figures to report seems pretty low though, given their reach and influence.

I agree. It's just more 'vested interest' typical of so many of our mainstream media sites.

Ironically, should house prices drop dramatically, their "Herald Homes" supplement will have huge numbers of black and white mortgagee sale advertisements in it! Increasing their revenue.

I'm guessing they just don't want to upset some of their biggest advertisers, Barfoots etc.

To me it seems like they're trying to influence the market by this not already being front page news!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-21/sydney-morning-herald...
Proof that the media has an interest in what the property market does!!!!!

Vested interest

But one of the major sources of advertising are property listings. So why would they want to destroy that? It is about find the 'glass is half full' stories.

14
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As a FHB I am all for bloody interest rates going up. Bring it on. We need to reign this in.

It's a waiting game now. Saving fervently in my draughty flat.

Good on you! Thats the spirit. Not only will house prices be lower when you do buy but your deposit will be way higher. Win win.

14
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I think a lot of people are in the same boat. Sick of this stupid game going on and prepared not only to hold off buying, but also now to consider more extreme options - up to and including emigrating.

If prices are not addressed and brought into a realistic relation with NZ incomes, then what motivation to stay and pay both rent and a pension to millionaire landlords who certainly don't need the latter but will squeal with indignation should anyone suggest they put their money where their smashed-avocado-hating mouths are and pay their own way.

Leave them to their new city of congestion, crowds of immigrants they're really actually a little bit uncomfortable with (given their age), and suburbs full of foreign purchased houses with poverty-level NZ incomes and a father overseas running the business (as is the case in Vancouver).

Well without lots of Overseas Investors pouring money in to the Auckland property market we are going to see prices falling further considerably. But lets face they really need too fall to be affordable.

Thing is we have absolutely no control over this and it's going to be a very bumpy ride over the next six months. We really need to add a Foreign Buyer Tax as most other the other popular cities have done to ensure we don't end up on the false economy road again. We need to let our vital industries recover and letting house prices run out of control only over inflates the Kiwi dollar and hurts our IT and export industries.

Tourism would also benefit if the dollar is lower, since more people would be able to afford to visit NZ on holiday.

CJ099 you are correct but to expect any measure from current national government is hoping too much. If they were sincere, they would not have manipulated the definition as a result overseas / non resident buyer data.

This government (sorry people/politicians in this government ) has become too big for themselves and have to be shown the door or give them one more term and face the consequences.

Power corrupts and too much of it - 9 years - Absolute Corrupt

10
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Whilst it hurts me to say since I have extreme disappointment in all of them....Joyce, Bill English and the Teflon Don himself Ex-PM Key

They've ALL been saying for YEARS that the Auckland endless capital gains and low interest rate gravy train was going to stop at some stage and not to take on too much debt. (despite doing nothing to stop it themselves..)

Only the willfully ignorant or blind greedy have been leveraging up in the last few years - frankly I have zero sympathy for any speculator who loses their shirt.

Its no different than someone "gambling" in a bull stock market - you take the risk for the reward so be prepared to lose it all.

The rest of us have been subsidizing them for years - maybe some real pain felt will stop this insane obsession in housing speculation.

As for homeowners who bought in late - I doubt banks will call their mortgages in for fear of tipping over their own loan books - they should be able to ride it out and enjoy what they bought - which is shelter - not an ATM.

Sounds more like a case to remove temporary LVRs in place to me.

Remove LVR's for FHB's would be fairer. But still apply a sensible affordability stress test.

Fyi If an FHB buys newbuild its already exempt from lvr restrictions

why do you say LVR's are temporary, I think they have become entrenched and the only movement will be how much they adjust them depending on the economy

@sharetrader doesn't matter what you or I think.

RBNZ thinks LVRs are temporary and have said so multiple times in various announcements as well.

http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/faqs/loan-to-value-ratio-restrictions-faqs

The change in the housing market is welcome but also predictable in this economic cycle. Hopefully in the next year or so LVR's on first home buyers can be relaxed as they have be the casualty of these moves. I'm sure many on here would deter FHB's from entering the market but unfortunately alot of these people listened to the Gloom merchants in 2008 about prices falling 40% and have been left frustrated on the side lines. These FHB's will not make the same mistake again. There will be better oppurtunities over the next 3 years but a market colapse is at best wishful thinking.

Ooh, the Finance Minister is saying Auckland houses are about to fall... It makes me think that they may not. Also, I STILL don't believe interest rates will increase substantially

To even out the demand-supply imbalance, put into law that immigrants must buy new builds, this will stop upward price pressure on existing houses from overseas buyers and increase the demand for new house builds

Or even easier....slash immigration!!!!

This has an instant effect unlike supply that takes YEARS and YEARS to make a difference...

Drives me nuts hearing about supply without demand being mentioned.

Anyone on with less than PR should have to invest in a new build. There should be a 20% stamp duty on purchases on short term and student visas, and foreign purchases.

We should remove the tax advantages property investment receives, and put CGT on investment properties.

Things plenty of other markets have done - but things National has constantly refused to do, because their most honest statements were "We don't want to see prices come down."

A young person voting for National is a young person voting to rent till they die.

Like if you think Auckland apartments (in particular) are wildly overvalued.

I think the apartment market is due to take a big hit.

I agree the Apartment market is about to get slaughtered. It feels like 2005 all over again.

Wouldn't be too surprised. People wanting $400k for a studio / small 1 bedroom, often up to $550-600k still for a 1 bedroom or small 2 bedroom.

Just to live in Auckland, with low salaries and high cost of living?

" Homeowners in Auckland don't need to panic though" http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=1180...
Time to panic...

Major spin

18
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If you want to make a real difference in this election, you have to be prepared to do some very rash. That is to vote for NZ First.

I am no Peters fan and have only ever voted National, but I'm sick of the head in the sand approach to dealing with the root cause of house prices, and overstretched infrastructure in general. We need to have some sensible limits on immigration. It's at the heart of most of NZ issues. Neither National or Labour will do anything about it, unless they have to make deal with the devil....Peters.

Come election day I will grit my teeth and vote NZ First. It will be the first and hopefully the last time I ever have to do it again in my life, but a message has to be sent.

10
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Am with you user123. I too have been voting for national but not any more and YES can go for Peter Winston also provided he announces that will not go with national party (Otherwise a vote to Winston Peter is a vote for national) but to avoid vote split better to go with Labour. Though am not sure about Labour but knows one thing that for any solution to start - is possible only by voting national out of government.

10
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And me.... my vote goes for whoever stops this ridiculous immigration policy.

House prices aside - the quality of life in Auckland is plummeting as existing infrastructure is simply overwhelmed by the sheer inflow of people and commensurate cars.

It's just about impossible to do anything, anytime, any-day in a non-stressful manner - even short car journey's in the weekend across town are fraught with peril and the costs to business productivity must be insane.

With the housing speculation greed-fest, National hasn't done shit. Make that less than nothing, they've helped it!! Labour won't do shit either.

The Greens are getting my vote. Let the revolution begin.

>"Let the revolution begin."

And if it doesn't begin this election, one wonders how much more the young in NZ will put up with before they do start to get genuinely angry with the politicians who have sold them down the river.

In New Zealand's past we had riots over worker rights and other issues, heck, even rugby games. In the USA, we've seen Trump elected on the back of an unhappy lower class being exploited and mistreated for years via "trickle down" that never was.

How long before we see peaceful protests, or - worse still - violent reactions to being abandoned by the NZ government?

Perhaps it's that many of the young don't yet realise that there were reasons of policy why houses were affordable for previous generations, and there are likewise reasons of policy for why they're not for them, policies that have changed houses into nest-eggs for an older voter base instead.

".... policies that have changed houses into nest-eggs for an older voter base instead."
No. Most older voters don't really want high priced homes (unless they plan to move out of Ak).
The policies that are the criminal ones are the ones favoring "investors".

Not all of them, fair point. Boomer investors are a subset.

Also a nat voter historically, Winny is getting my vote at this stage!

That's exactly what democratic voters in the states did when Hillary Clinton beat Bernie Sanders, they cast their vote to the republicans and gave it to Trump. Can you not see how aligned Peters is with nationalism, with Pauline Hanson, with Trump?

My god, blindly giving Peters the vote is sending this country down a similar path as the states. YOU MUST VOTE BASED ON CREDIBILITY OF PROPOSED POLICIES. If Peters conveys a policy that is picked apart by journalists and others as being credible, then vote for him, however what are his policies exactly, and where is the validation of their credibility???

Because journalists are sooo good at holding politicians to account

I'm building a small complex of 6 apartments at the moment... NOT in Auckland.
I'm confident that the 'perfect storm' of limited land supply (primarily due to legislative influences) complex (and often ambiguous - note 'alternative solutions') building standards in NZ, coupled with very little competition for many materials, and a shortage of (skilled) labour availability will keep the cost of (new) building at high levels.
The result of this is that with new building costs high, a existing shortage of housing and with strong demand (immigration and returning Kiwi's), there is little room for new house prices to drop.
And is makes sense that non-new home prices will be governed by new build and replacement cost.
If the cost of new builds fall, the cost of existing homes will fall (to meet the market).
I have pre sold all the apartments I'm building, and it is almost complete, so I am not influenced by average house price movements (as some will automatically assume).

'Hopefully you're getting the message on house prices' FM Joyce to the people of the country.

'Hopefully you're getting the message on house prices NOW that your government will go' People of the country to FM Joyce

National Ministers forgets that people always knew to what is happening and it is them who were blind to the fact for their vested interest.

[ Comment disabled pending fact-check. Ed]

Apologies, Editor. Repeated what I've seen described elsewhere. Happy for it to be withdrawn / deleted.

Hisco said "Having been in banking since 1980 I have seen this movie before. The ending is pretty much the same - sometimes a little plot twist, but usually messy."

I remember housing after the 1987 share market crash, it carried on for a bit longer defying gravity, but it came down and hard.... once any overvalued market starts falling it doesn't stop until it represents fundamental value again. On DTI metrics as applied in other locations it could fall a long way. It beggers belief that a Manurewa rental is asking 650-700k

The market will indeed fall a long way, the big Q is when....then there is how far, 60%?, 75%? 90%?

Probably 253% steven

I don't see any change in the general lack of supply, prices might dip but the market is well supported by government policy (or lack thereof) constraining supply. Changes in the employment market would seem largest risk. Clearly its an election year...

I'm going put all my investment capital with Stephen Joyce since he knows exactly where interest rates are going.

House prices up, many interest.co.nz commentators disappointed, what do you expect Joyce to say? He has no control on interest rates Nor buyer behaviour, sitting back and waiting for a fall is not goIng to happen, yes you might get. 20k discount compared to a month or two ago, and maybe a bit more on new builds and apartments, inner city villas ain't going down, only so many left on so little land

Could be true - nothing short of a change of government and rejig of policies will bring houses down to reasonable prices relative to local incomes. This current government who governs for the benefit of investors won't do it.

Moral of the day is that current national government has to go :)

Winston is a win/win vote - he'd improve the policies of either major party in coalition, regardless of who he goes with.

Seriously, you would vote out a Government because the country has been going far better than most other countries in the world?
People talking about leaving NZ because of the price of housing?
Have these same people checked out the prices in the major cities in Australia, and think they will be better off?
Do they realise that OZ doesn't recognise Kiwis as being entitled to the same benefits that the Ozzies get?
Forget about the prices of housing in Auckland, as all it is doing is making you bitter and twisted and will get you nowhere.
The market is the market and if you can't beat it then move to somewhere that you can get in on!
Most people know that markets don't go up indefinitely and will flatten or drop for awhile u til the next round, and they call that a property cycle.
Property cycles are where opportunities are available, so,make the most of your circumstances whether they are good or not so good.

How has New Zealand been going better than most countries since 2008? Rampant immigration, too little infrastructure, stratospheric house prices, constant wage stagnation, declining quality of life, increasing household debt, record low interest rates, budget freezes for the Police and hospitals, rising methamphetamine and drug use and high levels of poverty, child abuse and suicides?

"But mah portfolio is going up brah"

Influx of insurance money that's now dried up.

Good point!

"Don't worry young Kiwis, you'll never own a house so stop being bitter and twisted, and make the most of your low wages and paying 40% of your income on rent. If you can't afford a house, move to Gore or Tarras or Te Kuiti where houses are cheaper, but of course you'll never find a job there to pay the mortgage. Never mind that I was born during a time when houses were affordable; that doesn't matter because it's a 'property cycle' and you have to wait until the next round to get on."

How is the view from your ivory tower? Can you see the Auckland gridlock and mass immigration from there?

Better: If you can't beat it under policy conditions that create stupid results, change the policy conditions to reconnect house prices with local incomes, as is generally regarded to be a good thing.

10
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Yeah were going ok.....except for the stupido house prices. The average business cant afford to pay the average man enough to buy the average house.

Why...because of stupid levels of immigration, overseas money/buyers massively pumping prices, and the specuvestors binging like mindless junkies loading up on cheap debt playing a debt ponzi game of tax avoidance and free capital gains (tax treatment needs changing). Non ponzi players (most of NZ) are well and truly sick of it. I am sick of it driving the 20-35 bracket to Australia - there are close to 500k young Kiwis living in Queensland alone. With an aging population that's a solid gold outcome.

Summary - specuvestors ARE part of the problem. National is blind because they are looking after their voting block - show me a specuvestor not voting national. I'm voting for whoever will lock in policy to change this sad state of affairs.

If the stupidly leveraged gets hammered in the next 12 months - I will not miss you, nor will most of the rest of NZ.

Sorry, but you do need to get that chip off your shoulder and feel privileged that you are living in NZ.
I have travelled a fair amount overseas but not everywhere, but from where I have been, there is no,other place I would prefer to live in for quality of life and opportunity.
Oz is not the answer, especially Queensland. Great for holidays but they have the same housing and employment problems over there.
If things are not going too well for you, then you need to alter things for the better.
Feeling aggrieved because you can't afford to buy a home because of immigration is beyond your control and so you can only deal with things you have got some control over.
Wishing that house prices are going to crash could result in you being even further priced out of the market.
Wanting interest rates to rise so that current owners lose money seems like a pretty jealous opinion and if rates do rise, then the current non owners will end up paying more in mortgage payment or rent!

11
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>"If things are not going too well for you, then you need to alter things for the better.
Feeling aggrieved because you can't afford to buy a home because of immigration is beyond your control and so you can only deal with things you have got some control over."

Sorry, but voters can drive policy that will change the conditions that have created these silly prices. Change the conditions, change the prices.

20% stamp duty on foreign purchases
Limit foreign purchases to new builds
Remove tax advantages for investment properties
CGT for secondary properties

All these things have been tried in overseas markets. They have their effects.

Of course it's natural for you to wish things to remain as they've been, in a state that will benefit you.

I was in the news today - yay! Surprisingly areas zoned for Selwyn College and Auckland Girls Grammar have really high rents. I'm not just DGZ but also profit from these two low decile colleges - double and triple the yay!! #VoteForNational
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=1180...

I thought you were heading south to Nelson area? I hope you're not a no kids family taking up space that folks with kids are desperate to get in to. #GetBlueGreyOut .. it's trending in AKL :-).

The obsession with school zones is ridiculous in my opinion. Remember when you used to walk to school and the local school was the one you went too, supported, sold raffle tickets, weekend working bees.
The whole deal today is a reflection of what is wrong with society today. Elitist nonsense.

Doesn't mean a thing when the best teachers can't afford to live there and go elsewhere.

Auckland is going to hollow out within a few years into a dysfunctional mess where there are lots of very moneyed, and very poor, people, but nowhere near enough middle income people working in the critical areas of education, health.
Any one could see this coming years ago.
It's a policy travesty.

Agree. I went to a private boys school, many of the lads in my year were spoiled, protected brats and have done nothing of consequence.
I wouldn't send my kids to a decile 1 school, but I think once you are getting to a good decile 7/8 school the education is usually quite sound, and you are getting a cross section of backgrounds rather than a narrow band of spoiled brats.
Having said that, the application and personality of the child and the home environment I think, is critical. And on that front, there are plenty of dysfunctional wealthy households that may send their kids to an 'elite' school but fall down badly on the home front

I went to one of those schools, and there were close ties with the drug-dealing and prostitution industries. They're not silly, and target the lots of allowance/parents too busy or overseas kids, and most people won't suspect a kid in a prestigious uniform of being a mule, and if caught, they tend to get off comparatively easy. 25+ years in law enforcement have shown me that nothing much has changed there. Not an issue for most of the kids of course, but enough to be a concern. Remember that period a few years ago when the swanky schools were having their after-parties at the Head Hunters MC pad, until somebody with a bit of sense put a stop to it? Not accidental.

That's kind of hilarious. The only reason it would have been held at the Head Hunters pad is for a wide array of drugs to be supplied. Parents not really paying a attention or thinking about who their kids are spending time with.

True, I have a friend who taught for years in a private school in Remmers.

She was incredibly saddened by the low achievement levels of many of these kids, driven primarily by dysfunction at home. The ones who were achieving well were the ones who had parents who instilled in them a love of reading, love of learning etc., as seems to be universally the case.

Double GZ - At least you got a few thumbs up, you tend to be a bit short on substance, but long on smugness. A true blue real estate agent.

Stop speculating. I am not a RE agent. If I were one I would have made billions in DGZ haha ;-)

In short vote national out in next election.

11
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TM2 - what you fail to see, is that NZ isn't that much of a privilege to live in because of a certain group of people. That group of people are greedy, smug, self-centered and lack the intelligence to care about other members of society who have been less priveleged than what they have been. At some point in time, you may grow up enough and have the emotional intelligence to realise who fits into that group - it might be quite the surprise!

For some, the current situation is exhausting and depressing (trying to keep a job to pay rent and save for a house). You might want to think about life from their perspective at some point in time, between gloating on sites like this and running the numbers on your property portfolios.

11
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Yes.
Most of my family have been National supporters. All my grandparents. Yet they cared quite a lot for their fellow human being.
One of my grandfathers taught at Wellington college for 45 years. He and my grandmother were not wealthy, but they lived a good life in a decent house in middle class Karori - when that could be done on one teacher's salary. He was deeply respected, as a teacher and man. My how times have changed.
There are an awful lot of self centred narcissists in this country now. Having lived in Aus for a few years much worse I would say here.
We were once a progressive/country and society, that, if not egalitarian, strongly aspired to become that.
I think it's quite sad, actually,

14
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Chip. Tui. I have properties. I just want the future workers and my kids to live in NZ and not be enslaved to ponzi debt payments.

Specuvestors are parasitic to NZ. If you think there is no ground swell building up against property ponzi activity and overseas ownership you must be blind. Voting for change.

Get off the Idea that Auckland is the only place,to live in.
That is your problem.
Move to,somewhere that is affordable and gives a quality lifestyle.
Houses have never been that affordable for the average person in NZ.
Interest rates have been 4 to 5 times what they are now, the difference nowadays is that N Z has had a welfare system for far too long, and there are too many that think that the country owes them a living without working for it.
Waste of time debating housing topics on here as there are far too many looking for handouts without earning it!

20
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What's 'earning it'?????
You don't call care workers working 50 hours a week and getting $45K earning it?????
You value that far less than speculators flipping properties. Well you can f--- o--. Many of these people are saints who are doing brilliant work just to pay for the basics.
Why shouldn't they be able to aspire to have their home, even if it is a very humble one in a low value suburb????

[ language edited. It is not a big deal in this case, but we don't want that type of language in these threads, so I need to be consistent. Ed ]

10
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And I second every word of that

Yes Teachers and Social workers get paid terribly... but your vicious attitude is best served in the polling booth rather than on this website...not an acceptable comment

.if we didn't have 40 percent LVR then your care worker could buy an investment property in Gore...

Just listen to what you said...."AN INVESTMENT PROPERTY IN GORE" - Jesus H Christ....

Yes, NZ will get rich doing that. It will secure our children's future... seriously though - you're taking the p!ss right?

Our quality of life will continue to soar and we'll really move up the OECD charts for productivity and happiness....what an absolute load of BS.

When "buying an investment property in gore" is the answer - I hate to think of what the question is.

This is EXACTLY what needs to stop for the good of the country and we can actually start to either create or build stuff to sell / export to others - not trade houses to each other in a descending spiral of dead-end small towns because they're "affordable" (sorry Gore....but...)

Which of course, begs the question, where does the person from Gore, now priced out of that particular market go? I am truly, truly sick of the culture that has emerged in this country where housing goes, it needs tearing down and starting over with, so that people again feel they have a stake in the society they live in, which is what home ownership contributes to in no small way, it is a major cornerstone of a good society. And our tenancy laws need to change to better resemble those in Germany, so that even people who will perhaps rent for life can have a HOME!
This party has got to be over, it seriously does.

Children have to grow up and realise that owning landed property in a central suburb of a countries largest city probably isn't going to happen unless they make a few sacrifices. ask any one that lives in New York or moscow about the size of their apartment. The socialists need to work out NZ is equitable but everything is not shared out equally, this is called a free market and free society, I tend to save my whinging for the bank manager

The answer is to change all the regulations and laws so that landlording ceases to be such an attraction and I WILL be voting for that, thanks for the advice

@ Fritz (before you get moderated) Well said...couldn't have said it better.

HOW screwed up are our values today?

Those kiwi values of many years ago are gone. Very few people care about others now and are prepared to step on other people to grab a bit more "wealth". I dislike the toxic uncaring attitude that seems to have infected the population here. In the last year I've been thinking once I have enough invested to retire I may leave NZ and never come back. All I need to find is a country where people actually give a damn about others.

Did you get to the Springsteen concert? Would have been more "mindful" than posting here.

This view is too stereotypical and devoid of factual basis to be genuine...surely. Even the average imbecile knows that when interest rates were high, so were inflation and pay rises - without high interest rates inflation would've eaten your mortgage principal overnight.

BTW, you forgot to mention "smashed avocado", brah. That's supposed to go in these specuvestors' rants.

"Interest rates have been 4 to 5 times what they are now, the difference nowadays is that N Z has had a welfare system for far too long, and there are too many that think that the country owes them a living without working for it.
Waste of time debating housing topics on here as there are far too many looking for handouts without earning it!"

I agree all the retirees collecting superannuation expect a living from those working, running businesses and investing. All those over 65 need to stop bludging and start working for a living. I agree with you TM2 we need to end the social welfare system and turf out everyone in the dementia wards into the street.

Hey - THE MAN 2 Great to hear a positive voice on here, there are so many negative/jealous/angry people on this site. It is sad that most people appear to be unaware of the good stable economy we have, house prices are a challenge but the reality is cities with low property prices are generaly in population decline etc with all the issues of high unemployment etc. I have said on here before if your wage is not giving you what you want/need retrain take responsibiliyt of your future ! I think Steven Joyce has started of really well in his new roll just as Bill English has,

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You need to read Fritz' words above before they get moderated off, there are jobs that need to be done, as unappreciated as they are by the likes of some here. There is NO excuse for the situation we have where hard working people cannot afford to house themselves while a few selfish ones raid them for all they and their hard work is worth. Yours is NOT a world to aspire to.
The economy is NOT stable we owe billions and billions of dollars, we have had to deny people the ability to earn enough to live on, even though they do work hard, while encouraging the rentier class to leech, yes leech off them, it was almost unheard of back in the day when we did have a stable society..
Yes, people are angry and they will only get angrier as long as the current situation is allowed to continue.
It is NOT realistic to just churn out stuff like "I have said on here before if your wage is not giving you what you want/need retrain take responsibiliyt of your future" (sic) everyone is needed, the caregiver probably far, far more than landlords, so please explain again why you think it is they deserve not to be able to afford to house themselves, go on, just do that.

I agree with you Shoreman. I am really happy about the performance of Joyce and English so far. I'm very impressed :-)

I second every word that you have said above @Shoreman. I also applaud @TheMan2 and a select few for trying to educate others day after day. Thanks to those who were capable of having some sensible discussion and not resorting to name calling.

However this place is not the same it used to be. Pretty much 'broken record' posts from a select few over and over again. Anyone with a different view here is either a RE agent, National supporter or an evil Landlord. So done with this sense of entitlement and 'everyones fault except mine' attitude.

Signing out of here permanently now.

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“trying to educate others day after day” ???

What is the lesson? Everyone should speculate on houses? Drive up housing costs? Everybody should get better paying jobs? Screw over the younger generations? Vote NIMBY? Be a baby boomer?

More theres a problem with people blinded with greed, looking after themselves. You have no lessons for New Zealand society as a whole.

Good bye.

The lesson is: If you weren't smart enough to be born in the right decade that's all your fault!

It's usually accompanied by "I worked damn hard to be born when houses were affordable on one income two-three years after leaving high school and having a company train me. I pulled myself up by my own bootstraps in a society that provided much more than it does today."

It's delusional, devoid of a basis in reality but suited for those who do not appreciate how much society has given them, and believe they did it all on their own.

@Su30..

Wow could you be any more patronizing?

I'm actually doing fine thanks so don't need your "education" but since I have a conscience I actually don't like seeing another generation denied EVERYTHING I got simply for being born 25 years earlier.

For or against but one thing is definite that to protect NZ - National has to go. Anyone who think otherwise should ponder the damage that arrogant national will do if elected to power for 4th term than their will be no looking back.

It is not just about housing but the policies and ATTITUDE.

How true. National government is literally supporting and running a ponzi scheme. Feel good while it last but the end result has to be and will be disastrous.

No wonder people resonsible for intiating it are running away so will not be able to answer or face the public.

Vote for anyone but National or generation to come will not forgive us.

What a great job that Labour and Greens would do for NZ?

You have got to be kidding!
People who are not coping that well always blame the Government when they need yo look more closely at their own efforts.
Yes, there will be some that will tell me to piss off or words to that effect, but the truth often hurts.
As for workers at rest homes not earning a lot of money for their hard endeavours I would guarantee that most of them are delighted to be living in NZ and are not moaning like many on here!
Seriously, you anti landlord brigade have to change your outlook on things, and stop with the jealous element and instead of moaning about everything and expecting everything to,come to you, do things for,yourself that will improve your lot!
End of storey!

The landlord brigade is the demograph that has to change its view, not average Joe kiwi. It is IMPOSSIBLE for everyone to be a landlord, imagine the rate you would have to have your population increasing to support that. Landording has way, way too many breaks, evidenced by how many comments as to it being the best game in town, it needs to be in the same hard basket as other businesses, not having special carve outs. It is going to end.

You're living in your own self sentred blinkered world. The standard of our suburb has declined markedy since the landlord pests arrived. Unkept gardens, sruffy properties, no maintenance, lack of an social buy in with neighbours - a complete absence of community. Ill be voting for anyone who will screw these landlords out of existence and make way for some young kiwi's who wil take some pride, do up these houses and raise some kids. Nohting to do with jealously my child, it's called a social conscience - google it.

Right on - People won't know any different

In another generation the average person will not even know what you allude to

The diminished standard you see will become the norm. People won't know any different

@rastus - yes yes yes!

Perfectly said...the social costs are enormous, our entire way of life is in the balance.

The greed though is blinding, I've ended life long friendships due to it - god I hope we wake up before its too late.

OK then "the man 2" ...... when will you stop taking my tax payer $$$'s ???

Cut off the accommodation supplement and the tax rebates for property investors mortgage interest payments (homeowners don't get them !) .....and let the "true" market decide the rents.

And potentially means test the pension based on the value of one's primary place of residence.

Let the Faux Capitalists put their money where their mouth is.

PocketAces, Landlords have not got any extra breaks than any other business.
We claim all costs involved on each property just like any other business.
All our properties are positively geared and we pay tax on each and every one.
I agree that prices in Auckland are expensive however no different to many other major cities worldwide.
My point is that if you don't agree with it then moaning about it on here will not achieve anything.
I can tell you now that if you are prepared to listen to people who are getting ahead then you are able to in NZ.
If you prefer to remain where you are and just moan then you will always get the same result.

>I agree that prices in Auckland are expensive however no different to many other major cities worldwide.
My point is that if you don't agree with it then moaning about it on here will not achieve anything.

Error of fact there. Price to income ratios here are worse than almost anywhere. And the places that are similar are also driven by foreign investment.

That suggests some good steps to take to bring prices back in line with incomes: Change policies, including around foreign investment.

People are talking basic market fundamentals, not illusions of a generation born at the right time who can't see what they were given and believe 100% they pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps.

The MAN misses th epoint (yet again). "PocketAces, Landlords have not got any extra breaks than any other business."
You miss the point my child. We are not comparing you with other businesses. Your extra breaks are those that home owners cannot get...interest, rates, R&M and so on are all tax breaks i.e susbsidised by real workers through their taxation (not to mention the wff you hoover up). Due to these breaks you are in a permanent state of being able to out bid any aspiring home owner. Landlords like you are the benficiaries in this world.... not those people you keep dumping on.

Rastus, TM2 has stated that he is talking about positively geared landlords. That sets his business apart from negatively geared speculators and does make his business more comparable to other businesses.

..and how did they became positively geared? Like most, via the tax advantage of increased cap gain and a flick of the less desirable ppty with no tax paid at oppurtune time. Not neccesarily, but standard formulae.

Do you pay commercial interest rates on your mortgage, could I go and get a top up to buy a Maccas?

Many people living in NZ are doing just that, living... not thriving.

They are unable to buy a house, plan for the future. NZ is about to have a Brexit Style FU election.....

JK exists stage left, BE who's the patsy?
The drunken dwarf looks kingmaker...

PocketAces - There was no mention in my post that people don't deserve to be able to house themselves !
Housing is a problem but it has come about by many things like - GFC, collapse of the finance companies post GFC which was the main source for building companies, the lack training in the costruction arena, council regulations, the poor economic situation overseas, interest rates, immigration etc etc. So there is no one thing, immigration gets a hammering but the numbers are made up of - Kiwis not leaving the country, Kiwis returning home, Aussys moving here, students studying here and skilled people from, India, China, US, UK, South Africa etc So to stop immagration we would have to force the average number of people whom left the country in the past to leave or stop Kiwis coming home or stop Assies coming here or stop the multi billion dollar education sector allowing students in or stop new much needed skills coming from other countries, NZ has one of the lowest debt to GDP ratios in the world currently 24% of GDP soon to be under 2o% in 2020. Assy by cmparision is 50%+, US 100%, most of the Euro 100%+ and Japan 250%. So NZ is in a strong economic position if that is not clear to you then we can't have a factual debate. Homeownership rates are on decline around 60% I believe and this is a common fact in the developed world. To some extent it is part of our success but when we look at say the 2 most successful economies in Europe Germany and Switzerland they have some of the lowest home ownship rates in the world around 40%. Renting is the norm there so maybe we as a country need to gear up more for this as they do with very long tenancies with caps on rents. I'm 60 so yes a baby boomer but I don't recall anything being easy with regard to getting a house, I worked overseas for many years saving hard to be able to by my first house that was in a time of 16-18% mortgage rates, along with major recessions etc. I don't believe the old days were better or worse people just have a sense of entitlement now that is unfounded. I am happy to pay my taxes that go to things I never had like working for families, social care/help, free children doctor visits etc We live in a age that has changed but its not all bad, if you have a good creative idea for a business you can be up and running overnight with the internet simply amazing ! There are people left behind there always have been so lets appreciate that we have and economy that can and hopefully will more in the future help those who require help. Its a great time to be alive !

There is no sense of entitlement other than in the landlord class, what there is among the disaffected is a sense of hopelessness, when the price of a house is many many times annual income as it never was in our day, never, high interest rates and all.
I am sorry but the fact that we have had all settings and regulations in FAVOUR of people speculating in housing IS ONE of the factors that has sent prices into the stratosphere. It really, really must stop!!

Splendid! Let’s lock an entire generation of Australians out of the property market
http://www.michaelwest.com.au/lets-lock-an-entire-generation-of-australi...

I have said it before and will say it again ...... until this Government (whether National or Labour) gets PERSONALLY AFFECTED by high house prices, NOTHING WILL HAPPEN and the current "status quo" will remain.

They are personally affected. Their personal portfolios are doing very nicely, thank you very much.