Greenwald planning to reveal which friends and foes that NZ spied on; Key again denies mass surveillance; Harawira dismisses tight polls

Greenwald planning to reveal which friends and foes that NZ spied on; Key again denies mass surveillance; Harawira dismisses tight polls

By Bernard Hickey

With 3 days to go until the September 20 election, here's my daily round-up of political news on Wednesday September 17, with news that Glenn Greenwald has alleged New Zealand spied on neighbours and friends, while Hone Harawira has dismissed a poll showing he might lose Te Tai Tokerau and blow Internet-Mana's chances of entering Parliament under MMP's coat-tailing rule.

Also Roy Morgan published its poll of 935 voters from September 1 to 14 showing support for rose 1.5% to National 46.5%, support for Labour fell 2% to 24% and support for the Green Party fell 2.5% to 13.5%.

Support for New Zealand First rose 2% to 8%, its highest level since 2005, while Conservative was unchanged at 3.5%. Support for the Maori Party rose 1% to 1.5%, while ACT fell 0.5% to 0.5% and United Future rose 0.5% to 0.5%.

The Internet-Mana Party alliance was unchanged at 1%. The poll found 5% had yet to decide on which party to vote for.

Spying on allies

The revelations from Glenn Greenwald over spying kept coming.He told Fairfax's Andrea Vance that before October's vote on New Zealand's non-permanent seat on the UN Security Council he would reveal which countries New Zealand had spied on.

"I don’t want to give you the reporting before it’s ready ... but what I feel comfortable saying is part of the reporting will identify the other nations on which the GCSB spies, either for its own purposes or at the behest of the United States," Greenwald was quoted as saying.

"And that list includes adversary countries that most New Zealanders will probably expect and want the GCSB to be spying on. But then it also includes countries which I think will be very surprising, including Western democracies or neighbouring countries or countries that are deemed allies of New Zealand," he said.

Meanwhile, former GCSB Director Sir Bruce Ferguson (in office 2006-2010) told Kathryn Ryan that GSCB staff were trained on XKEYSCORE, while Key continued to decline to answer questions on whether the GCSB used the tool, which Greenwald and Edward Snowden have alleged is used for mass surveillance.

Key spoke to reporters in Dunedin on Tuesday morning and again denied mass surveillance or that the NSA had a base in New Zealand.

"Absolutely without doubt, New Zealanders are not subject to mass surveillance," Key was quoted as saying. He again called on Greenwald and Snowden to provide more documentary evidence.

Prime Minister John Key told Kathryn Ryan former NSA analyst Edward Snowden may have seen information collected on New Zealanders by the NSA and other agencies, rather than being collected by the GCSB. He said the GCSB did not have the capacity to store mass surveillance.

"He said we were contributing that metadata and that's not true. We're not collecting wholesale information. We don't have the capability for mass surveillance," Key said.

"So it's true there will be New Zealanders there and Americans may have gathered information across a whole lot of reasons, legitimately. It might be for hundreds and hundreds of countries, but what is absolutely also true is that we can't circumvent our law," Key said.

National Welfare reforms

Meanwhile, National's Social Development Minister Paula Bennett announced National's Social Welfare policy, including plans to reduce the number of people on welfare and into work by 25%.

"Jobseekers are in the best position in years to take advantage of New Zealand’s economic growth. We’ll be supporting them with our investment approach and targeting more resources earlier to those who need the most help," Bennett said.

“We will reduce the total number of people receiving a benefit by 75,000 by 2017, including reducing the total number of young people aged between 16 and 24 on benefit by 40 per cent, or around 21,000 people. Our aim is to bring benefit numbers down from 295,000 to 220,000 people over the next three years," she said.

“These are ambitious targets, but they are realistic and achievable. Since December 2010, nearly 60,000 people have come off welfare, and over the past two years 30,000 children have gone from living in a benefit-dependent home to a working one.”

National would offer incentive payments for beneficiaries who stay in work for a set period of time, offering more childcare support by expanding our Flexible Childcare pilot and make first-time Work and Income assessments more comprehensive "so people are directed to the right sort of support from the very start. "

“Our target of a 40 per cent reduction of young people on benefit is a bold one, but 53,000 young people aged between 16 and 24 on welfare is too many for a country with prospects like ours,” said Bennett.

National would also look at a trial where iwi administer welfare payments to young people, similar to the Youth Service, help young people get driver’s licences, expand the NZ$3,000 to Christchurch scheme to other regions, look at a regional Work Skills scheme to get young people on benefit working in the community.

US owner blocks access to tourism business

New Zealand First Leader Winston Peters accused Tourism Minister John Key of going missing in action when US-owned Coast Range New Zealand blocked access to the Flock Hill Station to High Country Explorer Tours, which employs 16 people.

The Overseas Investment Office approved Coast Range's application for 100% ownership of the lease on the land in the Canterbury High Country, Radio NZ reported.

Peters said Key was a "phoney, talking up New Zealand tourism but on the other hand allowing a foreign investor to shut down a Kiwi tourism business."

“The owners are losing their livelihood despite appeals to the Overseas Investment Commission and their National member of Parliament. The Prime Minister needs to explain why he, as Minister of Tourism, went missing  on this occasion. He might also want to consider an added fact -  South Island tourism has had a massive downturn since the earthquakes," Peters said.

“New Zealand First has been proved right again. The OIO is nothing but a rubber stamp," he said.

“This sale and the eviction proves that  land sales to foreigners are rarely beneficial to New Zealand. They distort the market and New Zealand loses control of our land.  Prices are now beyond the reach of Kiwis. Foreign owners have no ties to New Zealand and consequently do not exhibit the same care and concern for our land and our economy."

Key defended the OIO's decision thus: "With the greatest respect, I think you're losing the plot if you think 16 jobs there can't be measured against all of the other benefits of foreign investment."

Labour MP Clayton Cosgrove criticised Key's stance and his lack of action despite being informed last week.

"That is arrogance of the highest order. The Tourism Minister should not gloat over the loss of a major tourism operation and 16 jobs. He should apologise to High Country Explorer Tours head Rod Bennett and those people set to lose their jobs," Cosgrove said.

“There is no benefit in this sale to New Zealand apart from the seller getting rich and the foreign buyer getting 35,000 acres of Kiwi land."

The Press reported Coast Range co-owner Mark Fraundorfer saying it had not evicted the tourism business and that it had been surprised a commercial dispute had been turned into a foreign ownership issue.

"We haven't locked him out, we haven't evicted him and we haven't trespassed him. We've just said, yes you've a deal as of Monday. So I don't know why this has come into the media now and made us look like some sort of pariah," Fraundorfer said.

The Press reported High Country Tours MD Rod Bennett disputed several asspects of Fraundorfer's account.

"He said he had gone public with his complaint because he was getting nowhere in trying to retain access to the station," The Press said

Winston up  in Preferred PM poll

New Zealand First leader Winston Peters has seen his personal popularity rise to a three year high in a 3News Reid Research poll.

His support as preferred Prime Minister rose to 9.1% from 7.9% a week ago, and up from 3.8% just before the 2011 election.

Cunliffe wants Davis to win, Hone not so sure...

David Cunliffe welcomed polling showing Kelvin Davis close to Hone Harawira in Te Tai Tokerau, saying he wanted to see Davis win. Some had thought Labour might signal to Labour voters at the last minute to help Harawira and Internet-Mana into Parliament. Labour has said it would not include Internet-Mana in any Government, but it remains open to a supply and confidence deal.

Harawira said he was sceptical about the poll.

"You fellas did a poll three years ago when you had it at 41-40 and then the result on the night was 49 to 40. So when I see you have it down as 38 to me and 37 to Kelvin, I'm looking forward to being 45 to 35 on the night," Harawira was quoted as saying.

Elsewhere, the clerk of Parliament rejected Harawira's request for an inquiry into the alleged email, since denied as a fake, about a conversation between Key and a Hollywood executive. The clerk said Parliament was not sitting and an inquiry could not be called.

(Updated with National's welfare reform plans, Winston Peters' criticism of OIO decision on Flock Hill, US owner's response, Key denying mass surveillance, Winston's Preferred PM support up to 9.1%, Roy Morgan poll results)

See all my previous election diaries here.

See the index for Interest.co.nz's special election policy comparison pages here.

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FYI updated with National's new welfare reforms just announced:
Meanwhile, National's Social Development Minister Paula Bennett announced National's Social Welfare policy, including plans to reduce the number of people on welfare by 25%.
"Jobseekers are in the best position in years to take advantage of New Zealand’s economic growth. We’ll be supporting them with our investment approach and targeting more resources earlier to those who need the most help," Bennett said.
“We will reduce the total number of people receiving a benefit by 75,000 by 2017, including reducing the total number of young people aged between 16 and 24 on benefit by 40 per cent, or around 21,000 people. Our aim is to bring benefit numbers down from 295,000 to 220,000 people over the next three years," she said.
“These are ambitious targets, but they are realistic and achievable. Since December 2010, nearly 60,000 people have come off welfare, and over the past two years 30,000 children have gone from living in a benefit-dependent home to a working one.”
National would offer incentive payments for beneficiaries who stay in work for a set period of time, offering more childcare support by expanding our Flexible Childcare pilot and make first-time Work and Income assessments more comprehensive "so people are directed to the right sort of support from the very start. "
“Our target of a 40 per cent reduction of young people on benefit is a bold one, but 53,000 young people aged between 16 and 24 on welfare is too many for a country with prospects like ours,” said Bennett.
National would also look at a trial where iwi administer welfare payments to young people, similar to the Youth Service, help young people get driver’s licences, expand the NZ$3,000 to Christchurch scheme to other regions, look at a regional Work Skills scheme to get young people on benefit working in the community.

What economic growth?
people have only 'come off welfare' because their benefits have either been restructured , renamed, or stopped. If 60,000 jobs had been created in 4 years, we'd have heard about it.
 
Economy is going backwards, not forwards

Can Mr Greenwald also tell us if Mr Snowdens leaks has allowed ISIS to operate with relative impunity.
According to a report in Britains Times says it sure has so i say Snowden is no hero as portrayed by some but a traitor to every victom of ISIS

While the amount of spying the New Zealand government does on it's citizens is mild compared to Britian (there are 32 CCTV cameras within 200 yards of George Orwell's flat), in making your accusation could you prehaps elaborate on how the Snowden revelations of the U.K. Government spying on every one of it's own citizens in the U.K. has much to do with a sectarian conflict the came out of the Syrian civil war.

The internet party and its three stooges have had months to bring something concrete to the table..now they say "trust us  but you will have to wait until after the election"
 
It also annoys me that the media call Greenwald as Pulitzer prize winner ..when he is nothing of the sort..
Key has to defend himself against all kinds of crazy allegations with one hand(namelly national security ) tied behind his back.
as for Winton now saying he CANT take you to the NSA base in NZ... what a charleton..

maybe Key should stop instantly denying and lying and actually explain himself or his position.
It has become a game on catching him out on his lies now.

The Pulitzer was awarded to the Gaurdian for the reporting into the NSA that Greenwald did for the Gaurdian. This is the same usage as we used to say that Woodward and Bernstein won a Pultister for their reporting of Watergate, when the prize was awarded to the Washington Post for the reporting they did for it. I think your objections to using the term "won" in that way are not very mainstream.
In February 2013 John Key was saying unequivically we haven't tapped the cable and there are no plans to do so. Now John Key is revealing that in February 2013 the cable had been tapped and there were plans to do more.

So, today Key knows quite a lot of detail about tapping the Southern Cross cable (which is not what was described in the NSA docs). Flow on issues are:
He still seems to have lied to the nation in 2013 about had the cable been tapped and were there plans to.
I wonder if the poor CEO of the Southern Cross Cable would like to front again today, after yesterday being so very empathic that the idea was nonsense and the cable couldn't have been tapped as it was technically impossible without them knowing. I think, if nothing else, it means we should ignore his judgements about what is possible in spying.

here is the Monday clip
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/20149705/southern-cross-undersea-cables-is-rejecting-claims
and a look back to
http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/security-it/edward-snowden-reveals-tapping-of-major-australianew-zealand-undersea-telecommunications-cable-20140915-10h96v.html
"But the GCSB does not collect mass metadata on New Zealanders, therefore it is clearly not contributing such data to anything or anyone," Mr Key said.
Fairfax Media has previously reported on the Australian Signals Directorate's involvement in the X-Keyscore program and the ASD's cooperation with Singapore's Ministry of Defence to tap submarine cables in South East Asia.
The Australian Signals Directorate has also acquired sophisticated technology designed to tap high-speed fibre optic data cables including those that connect Australia with Asia and North America.  The huge volume of intelligence now collected by the ASD data has required theconstruction of a new $163.5 million data storage facility at the HMAS Harman naval communications facility near Canberra.
 

1 Corinthians 9:19-23
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11326387
Prime Minister John Key acknowledged today that NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden's claim that New Zealanders' data is accessible through the controversial XKeyscore system "may well be right".
 

 The most dangerous man in America.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwXylIaJ_Lg

Yes Henry, a fast changing range of admissions by the PM. Nonetheless, the regulator sees nothing. And why would she? Lawyers are not experts in the fields they are often called upon to oversee.
 
US journalist Glenn Greenwald has challenged a statement from New Zealand's spy watchdog, who said she hasn't identified "indiscriminate interception" of Kiwis' data.
 
Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security Cheryl Gwyn issued the statement this morning, but won't give interviews on the claims by US whistleblower Edward Snowden.
 
In her statement, Gwyn said that in her role she continually reviews whether the GCSB complies with the restrictions upon interception of New Zealanders' communications "and with the requirement to intercept communications only for authorised purposes."
She said she would continually monitor "these issues." Read more

It is more the the regulator, the Inspector-General, is limited by legislation to investigating what information the Prime Minister makes available for invesigation.

Can the citizens conclude Key operates above the law with the jurisdiction often ascribed to a dictator in this instance?.

I think Cheryl Gwyn's choice of the words in 'indiscriminate interception' is telling.
 
If ask for a random selection of something (say Emails) that is indiscriminate. If I ask for all Emails that is not indiscriminate.
 
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/indiscriminate

Targeted emails of a particular individual or group is also not "indiscriminate"

Similarly nothing indiscriminate with XKeyscore (driven by a checkbox system and no it won't attempt to return you terabytes of data).

Oh, I see. This "didn't win a Pultizer" thing is something getting high rotate on Whaleoil and talkback, and social media is being bombarded with. Using similar logic:

  • New Zealand did not win the 2011 Rugby World Cup.
  • Hitler did not invade Poland.
  • The Sun does not rise in the morning.

Historical revisionism is a growth industry for those intent on denying the masses access to reality inconsistent with the ideological diktats of the few.

ISIS grew out of the power vacum left when the USA withdrew its forces. Iran treid to move in which was unaceptable to house of Saud, so a Sunni force was created. On the US side in Syria but against them in Iraq.
  Meanwhile we ignore the disaster that Lybia has become;
 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/envoy-warns-libya-brink-prolonged-str...

 
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/09/haftar-group-claims-lib...

But he did 
 
Glenn Greenwald told CNN's Brian Stelter on Sunday that receiving the Pulitzer Prize for public service was "really gratifying."
On Monday, Greenwald and other journalists at The Guardian and The Washington Post were awarded the Pulitzer for their reporting on the National Security Agency.The big question as the awards approached was whether the Pulitzer Prize committee would recognize their work, and they did just that.
 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/20/glenn-greenwald-pulitzer-reliab...

First it was DotCom that hijacked our elections for his own personal gain, and then Nicky Hager hijacked our elections to sell books, now Greenwald and Snowdon are hijacking our elections to push their anti-spying agenda. What right do these foreigners, criminals and profiteers have to take advantage of our country and our elections? Are they targeting us because we’re a small nation? Are they targeting us because they think we’re gullible and stupid? Why is the media full with their messages and not messages and debate about healthcare, education, sustainability and the economy?

This is not their country and not their election.

Yeah!!! How dare they try to inform us about issues important to the relationship between us and our government!! I demand the right to vote in an uninformed way! More important, I demand my right to everyone else voting in an uninformed way! How dare they try an politicise an election by trying to get us to think about our governments actions! Elections should not be about politics! 

You will blindly support anything anti-National as it suits your political beliefs.  The latest 'show' was more accusations without real evidence, more trial by media, what if this all turns out to be lies and our election was affected...  Once again this has been timed to achieve maximum PR damage with minimum scrutiny of the facts.  DotCom couldn't even produce the evidence he has been promising for years now. 
 
Dirty politics played right into Winston and the Conservatives hands, the last thing the left wanted.  I suspect there will be unintended consequences from this too.

If you want to make it personal about me, I am happy to declare that had National's response to Dirty Politics been "while Parliament is still running, we are moving under urgency to strengthen the official information act so that the government cannot act in secret, for though we believe we have done nothing wrong it must be clear to the nation we did nothing wrong" I would have considered voting for them, even after they strengthened the powers of the GCSB, because I would have considered better scrutiny of the government a not bad tradeoff to the government having more scrutiny of us.
Now, I will admit I have been pretty down on National since the whole increasing spying powers and arresting people at the border over student loans things, but I would consider myself open to being convinced by actions that decrease the governments power over people. I just haven't seen much that encourages me.
And for the record, I have said repeatedly I personally don't think much of Dotcom as a person (or anyone of the other people let into the country under the government's "we welcome dodgy foreign millionaires" program) but I do care about the rule of law and the transparency of government.
 

"...but I do care about the rule of law..."
 
You claim you care but you have clearly formed very strong views based on un-substantiated evidence that has never been anywhere near a court of law.  Dirty politics now these GCSB allegations are just that, unproven allegations thrown around by highly politicized individuals.  I believe the term is guilty until proven innocent. 
 
Why wasn't GCSB and dirty politics announced 6 months ago?  We all know why, maximum PR damage minimal need for proof. 

I've been worried about National all the way back when the Skycity deal was leaked.
 National has done a hundred dodgy deals.
 Remember they were going to repeal the Anti smacking law.

Meantime over in Germany's  "Spiegel":
 
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/snowden-documents-indicate-nsa...
Check also the link for the video in the article. They speak German, but after a while there are English subtitles. So todays technology allows everybody to watch everybody...........
I personally think more important would be to halt the TPP negotiations, "Big Brother Is Watching" is obviously already a done deal.
 
 

And just so we are clear about the lengths the US will go to get access to all our data;
 
Yahoo threatened with trillion-dollar fine over access to user data
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=1132...
 
As a publicly traded company, Yahoo would have been required by federal securities law to report substantial government fines to its shareholders - something that would have been difficult to do, given that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court classified the order and the court case.
The government motion requesting the fine called for it to be declassified in 2033 - 25 years later. The controversy sparked by the disclosures by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden prompted an accelerated effort to declassify the case, which is what led to last week's release of more than 1,500 documents from the legal struggle.
 
 

Ha - told you National plan to fund tax cuts through benefit cuts:
 
“We will reduce the total number of people receiving a benefit by 75,000 by 2017"
 
Miraculously just in time for the possible-maybe-dunno what size-tax cuts.
 
Actually, given how badly the housebuilding programme in AKL is going I wouldn't hold my breath.

So New Zealanders have been spying on nations who might be a bit miffed that happened. So ? In my view our spies should be doing just that.

In my view our spies should be doing just that.
 
What! - as a job creation scheme or because these nations present a threat to our sovereign welfare? Let's hope the only bulk buyer of WMP is not a designated target of official prying.

China will be the primary target of our contribution to Five Eyes. Here's what the Americans had to say in 2007 in the process of "re-admitting" us to the network:
.
http://www.nickyhager.info/wikileaks-leaked-us-cables-spill-the-beans-on...
“Our intelligence relationship was fully restored in August 29, 2009,” the SECRET/NOFORN cable, meaning for American eyes only – No Foreign Nationals, says.
The cables also reveal an increase in New Zealand co-operation with US intelligence agencies and military, beginning under Helen Clark’s Labour government. A cable from March 2, 2007, said Clark, as minister in charge of the intelligence agencies: “is read into all major operations involving US intelligence… [and] grasps that NZ must `give to get’.
 
Giving to get - can only mean better access to China based on the one thing we had that they (the other partners) didn't: an FTA.
 

Sovereign welfare.  Then we do need to keep an eye on those americans.

We might well be spying on America, there certainly exists a certain amount of "we can't spy on our own citizens, but you could do so and let us know about things of interest" between the UK and the USA security services. But I think it a bit unlikely as we just don't have the resources.

Conclusion:
Although 99.99% of what the spook agencies collect on the internet is undoubtedly useless nonsense (which makes one wonder how effective these unfocused efforts can possibly be in catching actual terrorists), the fact that they apparently do indeed collect everything is a danger to liberty, no matter how many “bad guys” there are in the world that can be used to rationalize these activities (bad people will always exist).
There is no telling what the future will bring, what kind of governments will come to power if there is a major emergency (economic collapse due to a breakdown of the monetary system is e.g. a distinct possibility). It is after all well-known that radical political forces tend to come to power under such circumstances, and then there can no longer be even the remotest assurance that the data so diligently collected by agencies of “free societies” won’t be misused. Even democratic governments are known for their past efforts to suppress political dissent. In fact, as Washington’s Blog correctly argues, history shows beyond a doubt that ultimately, this is what mass surveillance is always about.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-16/nsa-warns-bad-guys-are-everywhe...

http://www.spiegel.de/video/chokepoint-the-moment-stellar-learns-it-has-...

If you are up to no good you should be worried, if you are behaving you have nothing to worry about. 

Here's another example, the traffic police monitor our roads, every single car that passes by can have it's speed monitored, can have it's number plate read and from that information the police can see my name, where I live, my DOB, etc.  There is trust that if my license, warrent and rego is up to date, I'm not speeding and I have no un-paid fines I will not be stopped or investigated.  This mass collection of data by the authorities is used to keep us safe; there are systems and controls to ensure that the data is stored and used responsibly.  The GCSB works the same way, there is data/tools available for them to investigate me if the need arises. 

This is such a facile argument. The old 'if you've got nothing to hide' chestnut. 
 
Can I put a camera in your lounge, your bedroom? How about your bank account details? As you said, you've got nothing to worry about because you're not 'misbehaving' so wont mind a bit of data collection if 'the need arises'
 
Public dissent, contest of ideas is how human society moves forward. 

So odd how the same folk who are horrified about totalitarian nations like North Korea, Communist China, and the former USSR, are the ones trotting out that line that if you don't have anything to hide, you don't have anything to worry about.
.
Something wrong, there.

Who gives a toss about spying, mass surveillance and what kind of software the GCSB are using. That kind of dialogue does not put food on the table and a roof over peoples heads. New Zealand will vote on Saturday over issues that really count and not the issues that KDC and his mates put before us. He does not live in the real world which is confirmed by his lifestyle and donations to the Internet Mana party. As he said he could show us John Key shooting kittens in the backyard with a shotgun and many will still vote for him . New Zealanders want a better life for themselves and their children and they are not worrying about being spied on by the GCSB unless they are plotting to commit an act of terrorism.

I am a New Zealander. I am not planning terrorism. I care about being spied on. I give a toss.

I presume you are not being spied on as you are not planning terrorism. The GCSB will be busy looking at that dick who burnt his passport in Syria and wants another one so he can come home. Do  you and your family have enough food to put on the table and have your own housing. Many New Zealanders do not and struggle on a day to day basis so this spying thing is the last thing on their mind. Watch out for any cars in front of your home with people in them looking in.

Life would be so much easier if we can assume that all politicians tell lies.

Of course they all do CM. Being able to lie and look someone straight in the eyes is the main quality they require to be successful in their chosen "profession." No one is better at it than Winston. JK is probably just the best of a bad bunch in reality. Why would one bother to be a politician. You will probably lose your marriage, you will age quicker than most and you are poorly paid to be one. It has to be ego especially for the short ones like Winston. And do not tell me JK is there just to make NZ a better place for us all to live in. He is there to simply make it possible to tick off one more objective in the bucket list.

They are all in parliament for their own personal agendas (WP and RN included).  One would be pretty naive to think that no one can spy on you; look at the smartphones we are carrying and where our main internet trunk lines connected to? .. the US of course..

Life is so much easier the more transparent the government, so it doesn't matter if they lie because they can't hide what they are doing.

I have used encrypted email and file transfer to protect client confidentiality in data I am analysing. We know from leaks that people who use encryption are of interest to security services simply because they decline to have their email and data easily read by other parties, government or not.
But while I am confident I will be of interest in that respect, I am also confident that as the government digs into the information that surrounds me it is clear I am a law abiding citizen. But if a government starts leaking personal details of people to attack them (as Anne Tolley's staff seem to have passed on details of School Principles that opposed government plans to Whaleoil) I would rather live in a country where that information was not collected, collated, and released about people disagreeing with the government. And I would rather there were permanent safeguards in place than "trust me".
Investigating the dick in Syria is the job of the SIS. The GCSB does signals.
I would suggest people with not enough food to put on the table are, by and large, not voting National this election.
 
 

I think you might be suprised on Saturday with a few of the results. South Auckland are waking up as they get more educated and realise that education is the key to get out of poverty rather than just pouring money at benefits and alike. They will not blindly vote labour as in the past. The left have cried out vote positive and vote clean water etc but in reality they are so far from the real world. People want a hand up and bringing in more tax, CGT and carbon taxes does not cut the mustard. More and more people want politicians to give them a hand up and when they are up they do not want to be hit hard by taxes for working hard. I have voted Labour over past elections but will not this time as they have no cohesion or vision. The Greens want to hold us back so how can we put food on the table. Winston is a complete fraud and Colin is a bit flackey so National is the only choice for anyone who wants to get ahead. The best of a bad bunch so if you want to vote then vote for the a party who at least will reward you if you get educated and work hard and make progress. I would be the first one to say we should help those who are unfortunate and cannot help themselves. But reward those who get off their chuffs and get educated and who increase their income as a result. CGT is fine in principal but does it really work. Just look at real estate prices in Sydney. Labour made a fatal mistake in suggesting it as again the battler does not want the government to hit them hard if they make progress in terms of setting themselves up for a more comfortable retirement than just living off National Super.

I certainly see Saturday as being interesting. I don't know I will be surprised. I would describe this as the most dramatic election since '84. And the early voting figures show something very, very unusual is happening with turnout
http://www.elections.org.nz/events/2014-general-election/advance-voting-...
It could be an unusual shift to early voting by those who would vote anyway, or it could be a rise in overall turnout, we don't know yet. All we know at the moment is twice as many people have voted by now as normally vote by now, and that is a big shift from the past two elections.

DH my wife and I are having a bunch of people around for dinner on Saturday night and then we will watch it all unfold. We are pretty political as we both value democracy and cherish the right to vote which we have always done together. We mix with people from all works of life and I have to say it is pretty hard to find anyone who is not voting to keep the status quo. People are pretty scared of having a government that has too many chiefs and not enough indians. If retail is anything to go by we are not out of the woods gfc wise. If National is not returned with a few hangers on to get them over the line just watch the dollar drop and money leave the country. Investors will not tolerate a Labour/Green/ Internet-Mana government.

While we clearly rate the importance of transparent and open government differently, I think we can find common ground in that people voting is good, increased turnout is good because the more pople that taking an active part in democracy the healthier it is.
While I will have the radio on on the night, and be checking the results online (I just don't watch a lot of TV these days, and I would rather be playing with the results data myself as it comes in) I don't think there will be a result on the night. 
I also don't think the results matter much to international capital, it has been pretty much shown in country after country in election after election that orderly transitions of government in democratic countries don't affect international capital. I do however think that with the collaspe in diary prices the dollar has a long way to drop in the next while regardless of who is in charge, and that is going to be the governing factor for the near future. 

Your circle if its "all walks of life" cant be very open...
regards

Mainly working class people who all realise stability is a good thing when the so called rocket fuelled economy is fact pretty tenuous. You just have to see the empty car parkets in retail areas to work that one out. When  I talk about overseas investors I am talking about people who are willing to invest in businesses , not those who are buying houses.

Lots of working class people in my circle of friends, too, and nobody I know is voting to keep the Nats in. Their votes are as wide ranging as NZF, Mana, Greens and Labour.
Nobody voting true blue, though.
.
It'll be an interesting election. Large amounts of early votes have been caast, which bodes well for turn out. Large turn out usually favours the left, not the right.

There are "investors" who seem to be more parastic specualtors than anything, and then real business ppl. Frankly if the former leave, good riddence I think NZ will be better off for it.
regards
 

I too am a New Zealander. I do not want any data kept on me, whether they read it or not.
My privacy is a privelage that I want to keep. It is my decision what I do with it.
 
Yes, I do care about other policies too. I will vote according to policy in the election, but believe very strongly that the spying mess needs to be investigated.

You are using the net.. it's a bit like " I want to walk in the rain but i don't want to get wet (at all)"

Poor analogy - grow up. Facilitating one section of the local population to spy indiscriminately upon another is a recipe for insurrection.

Um no, its is prefectly fair to do so without someone(s) spying on you.  Especially a Govn who considers you one of "them".
No Govn should have the right or power to spy on its ppl at whim, not one.  Such a power should be highly restricted and open to review, ie at judicial level to be granted and then reviewed at something like a select committee to ensure its not partisan driven.
Bringing the GCSB under the PM is also fraught with conflicted interests, too much power open to abuse.
regards
 
 

The people who protested the Springbok tours wanted a better life for themselves. The women who protested for Suffrage wanted a better life for themselves. The people who protested the Vietnam war wanted a better life for themselves. Mass surveilliance 'chills' the publics willingness to entertain contesting ideas to the mainstream. 
 

OK, listen up people who have been defending the government position. I'm afraid what you have been defending has changed again this morning as John Key is now saying Edward Snowden may well be right. I know it can be difficult to keep up.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11326387
John Key is however saying it is not the GCSB, it is our allies and we have no way of stopping them recording the traffic that takes place within New Zealand.
Persumably, we have no way of stopping our enemies either.
I would suggest a strategy worth trying, at least in the case of our allies, is to in the first instance ask them to stop doing mass data collection on New Zealand citizens within New Zealand.
If they decline to stop, prehaps we could go to the level of not looking the other way while they gather up the data.
Beyond that, we could go to the extreme level of going to the places we have helped them put intercepts on and removing them.
But I do realise it may be difficult for our intelligence service to have a cozy relationship with their intelligence service if it acts to protect New Zealanders.

You are obviously doing very well DH as you do not seemed to be thinking about what matters to the majority of New Zealanders and that is surviving week to week in terms of food, medical,power ,travel and accommodation costs. Many do not have a computer so do not give a stuff about who is spying or not spying on them. Feeding their kids is a priority. This issue is distracting people from real policies that count. All the left have done is suffocate real debate about real issues and National is the winner.  They will criuise into power again on Saturday which is a real pity as there has been stuff all debate about  the issues that count . I was in France in July and Japan in April and it costs a lot less to live in those two countries than here. 

Hang on Gordon, one minute you are saying your Generation had it far worse than the current one and that we are all slackers and now you are saying " majority of New Zealanders surviving week to week in terms of food, medical,power ,travel and accommodation costs"  & "costs a lot less to live in those two countries than here. ???!! 
Dont think National will cruise into power on Saturday either...you may just get a surprise.

Not all slackers. I never used that word. But many X and Y do not save. Interest rates were certainly higher in the 80's and getting housing finance was tighter. We budgeted to get by and luckily we were not distracted by the increasing amount of consumerables that are available today such as cell phones, takeaways and cafe meals. National might not cruise in but it will get there because there has been no debate about real issues. Will we ever get a politician we can totally admire. National will get in by default because the left attacked rather than simply putting up alternatives. 

Or withdraw completely from 5 eyes.  Too much guilt by association as other members beat the drums of war.

Gee mate be careful what you wish for. While I think John Key is a traitor and the data collection of our citizens needs to be curtailed, and I have been pretty vocal about that, the unintended consequences of such a move should be considered very carefully.

FYI Updated with Winston Peters' criticism of OIO decision on Flock Hill, Key denying mass surveillance and Winston's Preferred PM support up to 9.1%
cheers
Bernard

Bernard : why didn't you update the Flock Hill Station story with the comments from the manager of the farm , who has claimed they had a commercial agreement with the tourist operator , and are staggered by this public attack by the operator upon the owners of the leasehold ....
 
... and lest Clayton Cosgrove or Winsome get their knickers in a twist , the leasehold was signed off when the previous administration , the Helen Clark government , was in power ...
 
The Flock Hill manager is now reconsidering his agreement to access for the tourist operator .... and frankly , who can blame him for that !

Cheers Gummy for the heads up. I hadn't seen the response. I have updated now thus:
The Press reported Coast Range co-owner Mark Fraundorfer saying it had not evicted the tourism business and that it had been surprised a commercial dispute had been turned into a foreign ownership issue.
"We haven't locked him out, we haven't evicted him and we haven't trespassed him. We've just said, yes you've a deal as of Monday. So I don't know why this has come into the media now and made us look like some sort of pariah," Fraundorfer said.
The Press reported High Country Tours MD Rod Bennett disputed several asspects of Fraundorfer's account.
"He said he had gone public with his complaint because he was getting nowhere in trying to retain access to the station," The Press said
 
cheers
Bernard

This device sounds like what would be being used to capture all internal New Zealand telephone and internet communications
http://www.interest.co.nz/news/72016/greenwald-planning-reveal-which-fri...
This is the kind of thing the Snowden NSA files seem to be refering to, which has nothing to do with the anti-malware project Cortex that the Prime Minister is keen to talk about.

Latest poll coincides with Winston Peters renewing his call for a register for foreign buyers of New Zealand property, saying the policy is a bottom line

However, National's Steven Joyce said it would be impractical. He added that people shouldn't be forced to produce a passport for, say, buying a house, adding, major purchases (over 5 ha) are already tracked by the Overseas Investment Office
 
Meanwhile - you have to

  •   produce a passport to enter the country
  •   produce a passport to leave the country
  •   produce a passport to obtain an IRD number
  •   produce identification to open a bank account
  •   non-residents have to produce a passport to open an NZ bank account

 
Meanwhile - by way of contrast
 
in Australia, where existing laws prohibit non-residents from buying existing property, an MP who is leading a Federal inquiry into housing, states the Foreign Investment Review Board (FIRB equivalent of OIO) has failed to enforce existing laws restricting investment in real estate by foreigners. FIRB is asleep at the wheel
 
Wealthy foreigners are illegally buying property because of FIRB ineptitude, according to the federal MP leading an inquiry into a huge surge in property prices.
 
http://www.smh.com.au/business/punish-foreign-property-cheats-says-coali...
 
Gosh - a Federal Govt inquiry into surging house prices - and guess what they are finding

If there is a register of Foreign buyers purchasing NZ property then we will all have to produce papers (passport or other) when purchasing property or other NZ investments. It is just a way of having more information recorded by some public organisation which will add to costs......Winston Peters knows this and the media are as usual asleep behind the wheel.
 
One good thing about foreign ownership that most people never seem to consider is the risk spread that is created when foreigners buy NZ assets.

Nonsense - they (foreign buyers) are invariably multiple property owners over various countries and like foreign wholesale foreign lenders to the NZ banking system, sell up and exit at the first signs of liquidity stress. Remember those that sell first, sell best. A strategy not generally available to families.

So, you are happy to flash your passport when jumping on or off a plane, events that are automatically and electronically data-matched with WINZ and police, and identifying yourself when opening a bank account, both momentary minor events, but resent the need to identify yourself when entering into a transaction of significant proportions
 
It just so happens I bought a bit of dirt in new zealand a year ago and had to produce my passport to prove I was a kiwi. The RE agent took a photocopy. All up it took about 3 minutes. Pretty painless. The fact I was a kiwi meant it didn't have to go to the OIO. Also had to use my passport on a number of other occasions for identity purposes, during the transaction, bank etc

Nah doesn't worry me too much Iconoclast....I'm a State Slave and know me place in the pecking order.
Best to bow down to all the authorities when you're a State slave otherwise your Masters will find ways to make life miserable!!!
 
I would much prefer to sign a simple declaration as I flash my passport when going through border control that I would abide by the constitutional rights of the country.....and those that are not citizens or residents shoud be evicted when they fail to comply with their signed declaration. And if you're a citizen some serious ramifications for failing to do your duty would be in order.
 
Privacy was granted to us for a reason!!!!
 

Sheer hypocrisy
 
People of interest. You are being watched. Maybe
 
Lets put this into some perspective

Given the kerfuffle arising out of the GCSB and NSA monitoring and storing and capturing data it is worthwhile noting the following
 
The New Zealand Anti-Money Laundering and Countering Financing of Terrorism Act 2009 came into effect just recently requiring the RBNZ and FMA and DIA to monitor all financial transactions exceeding $10,000 identifying the origination of the transaction and the destination of the transaction. All that information is recorded, captured, reported, and assessed, Identical to the process of capturing and recording email metadata.
 
How real is it? How does that work?
Yesterday AUSTRAC the Australian anti-money-laundering agency shut down a family firm who were transferring $ milllions to Lebanon and Turkey
national/sharrouf-family-firm-shut-over-terror-funding-fears-20140917-10ibh7.html

The following can be concluded
 
Annually in New Zealand it can be estimated there are at least

  • 1 billion emails being generated - being captured
  • 1 million reportable financial transactions - being captured
  • 100,000 property transactions - not captured - too hard

Yet Steven Joyce reckons it's impractical to maintain and monitor a data-base of property transactions
 
The subtext is - they don't want to - wonder why
what does that tell the money-launderers who want to wash some money

Here you go
 
Bernard Hickey with Marcus Lush talking hot-money unclean-money and acknowledging (at last) that it has pushed up property prices
 
Not one mention of baby-boomers
 
http://www.radiolive.co.nz/AUDIO-Bernard-Hickey/tabid/506/articleID/54812/Default.aspx

considerijng all property transfer have to go through the land office, the raw data is there; someone just isn't saying

Updated with latest Roy Morgan poll results
Roy Morgan published its poll of 935 voters by landline and mobile from September 1 to 14 showing support for National rose 1.5% to 46.5%, support for Labour fell 2% to 24% and support for the Green Party fell 2.5% to 13.5%.
Support for New Zealand First rose 2% to 8%, its highest level since 2005, while Conservative was unchanged at 3.5%. Support for the Maori Party rose 1% to 1.5%, while ACT fell 0.5% to 0.5% and United Future rose 0.5% to 0.5%.
The Internet-Mana Party alliance was unchanged at 1%. The poll found 5% had yet to decide on which party to vote for.
 
cheers

Some of these results could be interpreted as people who would prefer to vote for Act are having to now be strategic and vote for National! This is one of the perils of MMP.
 
It is extremely annoying that NZ First will not provide costings on their policies......I think this is just as arrogant as the Greens who think it is acceptable to go on a massive spending spree with other people's money.........the poll results show we have a growing percent of people prepared to vote for economic insanity.
 
 

ANY political party ends up spending other people's money. The nats just spend it on business who don't need it, and their rich mates. All depends what camp you're in, really.

and regarding John Key saying some stuff (but not mass stuff) may have got into 5 eyes about New Zealanders from the GSCB acting under warrant.
The GCSB is forbidden to spy on New Zealanders, warrant or not
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2003/0009/latest/DLM187841.htm...
As Minister in charge of the GCSB, prehaps some journalist could ask John Key if he has been authorising the GCSB to spy on New Zealanders and under what law is this allowed.

Key just sent me a personalised letter addressed to my son and me - ignoring the women of the household. Not sure if its the usual Gnat misogyny or they really really really want the gay vote.

Are you coming out of the closet on interest.co Kumbel? Cute. (Not that there's anything wrong with that......:)

Before he got a real job my son helped me on my market stall. Someone who didn't know we were father and son called us the "Gay Bakers". Didn't hurt from a marketing perspective.

Good one. Sometimes I wish I was gay so I could get chicks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5Kom6efp38

You can always get chicks from farmers who have a surplus. If you live in an urban environment, I don't think you're allowed more than 4 or 5, though.

Keys words  -  "With the greatest respect, I think you're losing the plot if you think 16 jobs there can't be measured against all of the other benefits of foreign investment."
cruel words indeed - he needs to explain how the restictions / this foreign investment will provide more than 16 new jobs but I don't think any explanation will be solace to the 16.

The election campaign has been disappointing with little time spent on the issues that New Zealanders are concerned about.  That is the 'The Economy'  but much better described as income, income security.   ie:  jobs.
The National Party lost control of it's campaign when Hager popped up.  That was not their choice.  The Labour Party lost control of it's campaign, (it did have the choice - but muffed it)  They abandoned their 'Vote Positive' plan at the first twist in the road.  Pity.
New Zealanders have not been well served by all this.

They (National) lost control of discussion last election with the Tea-Gate incident and both Labour and National conveniently cast aside the development of differing economic mandates with mutual consent over a less than simple debt reduction agenda.

owwwhhh... the Bogeyman, i mean terrorists, are going to get us in NZ.
 
I'm more scared of the Tooth Fairy - fillings actually hurt.
 
Perhaps the Tooth Fairy & Santa are going to join forces as part of the 'Axis of Evil' to attack our farms and steal our sheep!  Oh no, this is terrible, our sheep are precious, seriously we must strengthen our army, buy some new fighter planes, increase airport checks - bloody Santa's coming to town and he doesn't wear a balaclava but he has a damn scary beard. I'm not sure what the Tooth Fairy looks like, but i bet she's scary too!
 
I have one serious question though - why is it we all lose our privacy at airports due to terrorism?  If a terrorist wanted to hurt a lot of people why can't they just walk into a supermarket, or catch a bus, or maybe pop into a library.  Why must terrorists only do their bad stuff on planes?  It's almost as though it's just an excuse to scare us so we accept the fact that our freedom and privacy have been taken away. 

" It's almost as though it's just an excuse to scare us so we accept the fact that our freedom and privacy have been taken away."
 
You got it.

In view of the minimum wage debate in NZ, this article on the parallel debate in the US is interesting: http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/demonizing-minimum-wage. Some quotes:
[The minimum wage of $0.25/hr] "constitute[d] a step in the direction of communism, bolshevism, fascism, and Nazism" - National Association of Manufacturers, 1938
"five hundred thousand people that will not have a job because of minimum wage [... making them] the main recruiting ground for totalitarianism, for fascism [...] even suicide-bomber recruitment.” - Richard Fink, advisor to Charles Koch, at a Republican fundraiser, 2014.
I thought I would hunt out some old figures. Although New Zealand was the first country in the world to have a minimum wage (1894), it's hard to find figures for that far back. I think minimum wages originally depended on the industry. A truly universal adult minimum wage was first achieved in 1978 (prior to that women received 70% of the men's rate).
1978: Minimum wage $1.62. Working 2000 hours (ie 50 40-hour weeks) would give you 68% of the per-capita GDP.
1997: Minimum wage $7.00. Full time job would get you 55% of the per-capita GDP.
2014: Minimum wage $14.25. Full time job would get you 56% of the per-capita GDP.
It seems like the current system of review has given a reasonable minimum wage. I couldn't find out how many people are actually on the minimum wage or their age structure. If John Key was correct in the TV debate, and only 55,000 people are on the minimum wage, then raising it won't make much difference either to employers or to poverty. Not sure why it has become such an issue in the election - maybe all parties think it is a topic that will win votes?
 
 

oh, honestly.
 Anyone who has ever thought  about telcos and the DARPANET  will have long since realised  the following:

  •  telco switches retain call history _ data source #1
  •  call history drives billing - copy of #1 hence data Source #2
  •  either #I or #2 are by definition metadata
  •  billing records are copied to ERP data source #3
  •  ERP copied to slice /dice (cubes, reporting, analysis)-data source #4

 turning  to the Inter Web:

  •  data is routed via NIC, switch, router- all of which routinely inspect and copy packets (e.g. statefull packet inspection)
  •  most of these devices can syphon data, have back doors in the silicon, and are Widely suspected of being the major point of vulnerability in all but military-grade oro therwise hardened end to end systems.
  •  emails, Sms (texts) and other Services operate via a store and forward sequence. The logical result of this is that multiple copies of everything exists as  a matter of routine, and history is retained at multiple nodes.  you may as well send a postcard and a copier along for the ride.
  •  Most devices (hubs, Nic's, routers,switches,modems_it's very long list. are manufactured by Companies and in Countries which are not necessarily our best mates.

So. Multiple devices.
 Multiple copies.
 Multiple open back doors and unlatched windows.
 Many interested parties.
 Tis the nature of the Beast.
 Quit yowling about " privacy"

Key has really run with the pathelogical liar thing and made it his own, like no other.
It's amazing how easy he make lying through your teeth look, he does it so effortlessly.
The concept of having a conscience or any integrity must be like greek to him.

Reid Research TV3 poll

Labour: 25.6 percent (down 0.5)

National: 44.5 percent (down 2.2 percent)

NZ First: 7.1 percent (up 1.2 percent)

Greens: 14.4 percent (up 1.4 percent)

ACT: 0.1 percent (down 0.2 percent)

United Future: 0.1 percent (no change)

Maori Party: 1.1 percent (down .2 percent)

Internet Mana: 2 percent (down 0.3 percent)

 

Basically, no government except on Winston's terms.

Hmm well done, we are now where Spain, Ireland, and USA were about 6 years ago, just before they all just about went bankrupt.
But it's ok because the media are all on side, including the tax payer funded TVNZ, and won't criticize stupid economic policies so it's all good,
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/10510673/NZ-homes-among-least-affordable-BIS

.

Southern Cross Cable - 30,000 kms
 
The Southern Cross Cable has nine cable stations (two each in Australia, New Zealand, Hawaii and the US mainland, and one in Fiji) and an access point in San Jose, California
 
The two NZ cable stations are in Whenuapai and Takapuna
 
See topology
submarinenetworks.com/trans-pacific/southern-cross/southern-cross-cable-network-topology
 
There are repeater stations (access points) every 47 kms
 
Question is - who owns (or controls) the cable?