Hecklers to 'shagging spiders': Lively housing reset sparks Wayne Brown-David Seymour showdown

A heckler halted the speech, the Q+A ended with a colourful quip about “shagging spiders”, and by the close of the press conference the Government’s housing reset had exposed fresh tension between Auckland Council Mayor Wayne Brown and Cabinet. 

Housing Minister Chris Bishop’s decision to scale back Auckland’s housing capacity from two million to 1.6 million - a softening of the Auckland housing intensification plan.- was touted as a political compromise, but it quickly became a test of who ultimately calls the shots in the country’s largest city.

“Politics is always all about compromise,” Bishop said.

“The point is this… it’s a more politically sustainable plan and that is important. We’ve delivered something that I think is more enduring politically, but it’s also a big step forward economically.”

But that political compromise quickly deteriorated outside of Bishop’s grip. 

Wayne Brown vs David Seymour

During a press conference after the announcement, regarding changes the council would need to make in light of the alterations to the plan, Auckland Mayor Wayne Brown said: “We’re not doing this in order to go to the Cabinet and ask for their approval. That’s not going to happen. Cabinet mostly don’t even live in Auckland.” 

In light of this, Brown was asked about ACT leader David Seymour’s statement saying a summary of how the zones would change by Auckland Council was needed before legislating the changes. 

"It is imperative that Auckland Council are transparent about this,” Seymour said. “Last year, the zoning maps were not released until after Parliament had voted for the 2.08 million number. They were buried deep in the Council website and I pressured them to display the most topical information on their website prominently.”

Brown responded: “We’ll just stick with two million and carry on, if that’s the case... I’m not sitting up here to have David Seymour tell me what to do.”

“We will do what we are going to do, it will be an Auckland decision… and they’ll just have to live with it.”

If he was happy about the housing capacity going from 2m to 1.6m, Brown said they were “never going to build two million houses anyhow”. 

“The question is, do we really feel good about having to go and do all that work on the off chance the Cabinet approve?”

The council had spent $13m so far on various iterations of the plan.

“We’ll just plough on, we may or may not do these other things yet, we’ve got some decisions to make…I did have a good warning they were going to change the number, but then the implication somehow or other Mr Seymour… is going to have some control over me, that’s just nonsense mate.” 

Bishop was asked during a Q+A by Infrastructure NZ’s Katie Bradford about whether it was Auckland’s plan, if Cabinet had to approve the changes Auckland Council put forward. 

“I wouldn't put it quite like that," he said. "We've obviously decided to take an active interest in Auckland housing but we want to basically sort it and then get out of it and let the process run. I mean there's a 20 month Auckland independent hearings panel underway.

“I think we've got ourselves into the right position and you know, ultimately we'll get there and then Auckland can work out where exactly the housing goes.”

He answered a flat “no”, if Cabinet had made any directions or had any discussions about what suburbs they wanted removed.

Heckling and a cup of tea

Bishop’s speech at the New Zealand International Convention Centre was interrupted for five minutes by well known heckler Karl Mokaraka, who frequently interrupts political press conferences, to talk about housing issues in South Auckland. 

In 2023, Mokaraka - at the time saying he was from the political party Freedoms NZ - heckled while leaning over a fence during a press conference by National leader Christopher Luxon. 

Bishop on Thursday told Mokaraka that the speech was to do with making housing more accessible in South Auckland. 

“Totally understand where you’re coming from and happy to sit down and talk about our plans and have a cup of tea,” Bishop said, to which Mokaraka thanked him. 

Shagging spiders

Bishop ended his Q+A telling the audience, “we're not shagging spiders here”, in reference to a proposed $9 toll included in the Infrastructure Commission’s first national infrastructure plan on the current and also future Auckland Harbour crossing. 

"I want to stress we're wee way away from a decision, we don't even know what we're building yet. 

“I get people want certainty. But also when you're spending like 15 billion bucks of government money on a new bridge or tunnel - not saying one or the other - people would want us to take a proper process around it, I don’t think that’s unreasonable.”

“We're not shagging spiders here. We're creating a massive multi generational infrastructure project for New Zealand for the next 50 years of New Zealand. So let's get it right.”

Asked about the comment, Bishop said, “We’re not here to shag spiders - it’s just a colloquial saying, I shouldn’t have said it, but there you go. 

“It’s a big week, I’m passionate about these issues.”